Guild Wars 2

Crinn.7864:

Morwath.9817:

Crinn.7864:

Morwath.9817:

I disagree.
I remember game where Abjured was dying like little kittens ;-), yet they won 500-200 or so (it wasn’t Foefire) and it was prefect match to show what about CQ really is and show its weaknesses as gamemode:
-> It’s often worth to die to prevent cap/decap if someone can jump in your place during your downtime (even if you end dead).
-> Because in CQ often rotations are often more important than actual fights.

But going to a gamemode like the one suggested by the OP would become far worse in terms of the effects on quality of play.

And strategic play is a type of skill in itself. Players using a strategy to win a otherwise losing situation is a measure of skill in itself. No-respawn TDM doesn’t have strategic play and really doesn’t involve much personal skill either since matches usually come down to which team has the worst player on it, rather than which team has the best player on it.

Nope. It just causes more balance problems, because even if all professions would have 50% vs each other and skill would decide 1v1 and 2v2 situations and so on then more tanky (who can hold for longer, even few seconds of longer cap/decap than enemies can decide “close enough” match) and more mobile (who can +1 more frequently or move between points) composition is better, which makes even more imbalances.

I don’t think you’ve actually played a mmo with competitive TDM. Yes conquest is certainly flawed but TDM is downright broken.

Any TDM with no respawns, revolves around nuking the kitten out of the other team’s weakest link. Glass builds are garbage. Anything that requires support is garbage. Anything and can’t escape a focus fire is garbage. Anything that requires any amount of setup is garbage.

Don’t believe me?

the only way you could make no-respawn TDM work is if the entire combat system and the classes themselves where designed solely with no-respawn PvP in mind.

I’ve played most major MMOs mostly for PvP since 1999 or 2000… and I can tell you that RA like TDM is perfect mode for following players:
-> Players who don’t have much time or just dislike wasting time in ques or lost matches that last eternity [matches are fast, there is no MMR so ques should be short]
-> Players who prefer action than capping and rotating around the map [action! no time wasted for rotating, runing around, respawning etc].
-> Players who hate playing against any kind premades.

RA suggested by OP wasn’t designed to be competitive nor he suggested it should replace conquest, but to be PvP mode for those who could enjoy it more than current one.

Crinn.7864:

What happened in that game is that of the three healers and three tanks only 1 of each would ever be viable a given time because only 1 of those “unique” types would mesh well with the current meta.

That means you have multiple viable builds which can let meta slowsly reshape rather than wait for next big patch, since you got options, which you don’t have now.

Also game you used as example has “trinity” for PvE reasons, in GW2 I believe healers and supporters are like -1 in PvE, so they don’t need to have such purposes as those in SW ;-)

Crinn.7864:

Morwath.9817:

I disagree.
I remember game where Abjured was dying like little kittens ;-), yet they won 500-200 or so (it wasn’t Foefire) and it was prefect match to show what about CQ really is and show its weaknesses as gamemode:
-> It’s often worth to die to prevent cap/decap if someone can jump in your place during your downtime (even if you end dead).
-> Because in CQ often rotations are often more important than actual fights.

But going to a gamemode like the one suggested by the OP would become far worse in terms of the effects on quality of play.

And strategic play is a type of skill in itself. Players using a strategy to win a otherwise losing situation is a measure of skill in itself. No-respawn TDM doesn’t have strategic play and really doesn’t involve much personal skill either since matches usually come down to which team has the worst player on it, rather than which team has the best player on it.

Nope. It just causes more balance problems, because even if all professions would have 50% vs each other and skill would decide 1v1 and 2v2 situations and so on then more tanky (who can hold for longer, even few seconds of longer cap/decap than enemies can decide “close enough” match) and more mobile (who can +1 more frequently or move between points) composition is better, which makes even more imbalances.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

Exactly what zinkz.7045 says.

And RA has never been a “skillfull gamemode” in gw1. Hell, it was random… Queue till a good group comp comes and farm those 25 victories. Thats what its been basically about.
Its been fun and a nice way of passing the time while waiting for gvg, but this was nothing like serious gameplay. Team Arena was a thing, too bad they removed it…

And “a dead player in GW2 sPvP has no meaning at all”??? Creating majorites through kills and rotations is what gw2 is all about… Whats worse than dieing?

With the release of gw2 i was thinking the same, continued to play gw1(my guild still plays the monthly gvg tournaments, lol) and stuff. But after lots of time i started to enjoy conquest. It really needs some time to get used to and to fully understand the gameplay, but for me its the best game mode for gw2 without a doubt. I would never wanna exchange it with deathmatch.
And honestly its pretty similar to gw1 gvg, compared to playing a split build.

I disagree.
I remember game where Abjured was dying like little kittens ;-), yet they won 500-200 or so (it wasn’t Foefire) and it was prefect match to show what about CQ really is and show its weaknesses as gamemode:
→ It’s often worth to die to prevent cap/decap if someone can jump in your place during your downtime (even if you end dead).
→ Because in CQ often rotations are often more important than actual fights.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, if Deathly Chill wasn’t around to do much damage, would anyone feel threatened by a Condi Reaper?

Nope, but thats only because Condi Necro (read: Terrormancer) got annihilated by Trait line changes and Curses got rendered useless for its main purpose (making Condi viable option). The saddest thing is that Condi Reapers play without Condi trait line (Curses) because its so bad.

As I’ve said once. I would buff Curses slightly and probably move Deathly Chill there (or remove it completly and buff Curses more than slightly), move Dhumfire into Reaper from Soul Reaping (because Dhumfire works only good with Reaper fast auto attacks and its completly useless with core Necro).

Cogbyrn.7283:

I think the idea of needing diversity and “playing how you want” in PvP are both pipe dreams that people don’t want to let go. If your class has a build that is competitive, you have the option to be competitive with that build on your favored class. Odds are, this build plays to the class’s specific strengths and fulfills a particular role.

Is that not great for people? Everyone can look at a build and say “no, I want to play differently”. But you’re in a competitive game. You can’t go into DOTA 2 and combine any skill/item build on any hero and expect to be competitive. Yes, this is an MMO, so people are more attached to their character and style. But you technically can do pretty well with all kinds of different builds. You just might not win tournaments.

What does balance and diversity would mean in GW2 PvP? Lets use Necro as example.
→ You could support others with Blood as much as Druid.
→ You could could sustain yourself with Death and/or Reaping as good as bunker Guardian.
→ You could nuke with Spite as good as Dragonhunter.
→ You could play attrition game with Curses (Terror) as good as Chillmancer. (yay! :P)
→ etc.
so…
→ Mixing Blood with Death and Soul Reaping would give durable supporter.
→ etc.
Obviously you would have decide to do one, max two things at once because Amulet choice still would limit your stat scalling with those trait lines.

zinkz, have you played GW1 RA, or just sharing WoW experiences?

Shadelang.3012:

Elxdark.9702:

In every match I face reapers all of my deaths are from chilled as top damage, 25k 30k even 50k I’ve seen.

But DH is op right, reaper is oki.

Atleast they aren’t as boring to fight as full bunker druid. Its the only thing ive seen where my 25 stacks of might and permafury just aren’t enough to get them below 60%

Usualy Clerics with 25 Might and permafury doesn’t do much dmg ;-)

Chicago Jack.5647:

Morwath.9817:

It’s a lie.
You could overcome lack of Monk in team and still win those ~20 games.

He’s actually correct.

Probably those winning streaks without Monk were nothing but my imagination…

About 55hp monks…
You know that you could remove Protective Spirit just with e.g. Strip Enchantment and kill them?

StickerHappy.8052:

If unsure, Anet will nerf another aspect of ranger.

#Realtalk

I’ve heard Rapid Fire will be called Backfire and will have 30% to heal enemy instead of damaging him.

@OP, +1

Rym.1469:

Tbh, that mode was more of a check if you have monk in team :P

It’s a lie.
You could overcome lack of Monk in team and still win those ~20 games.

Elpredator.8523:

Sigh these build listed above have so many counters and competent players would know how to beat these builds instead of whining because they can’t be bothered to learn counters and play the kitten game.seriously do you see any good or top tier pvpers whining about the elite specs no because they know how to play the kitten game and adapt and counter for once though I doubt you have played many games so .Anet should not listen to these whiny threads about nerfing specs because they are bad at the game and actually listen to decent people.

…but they were QQing about Minstrel, so it was removed.

nacario.9417:

If you claim revs to have sustain and tanky in marauder then play one and see for yourself. Fight any competent condi build, or even a power build. All we have here is ppl complaining about stuff they see from the outside, not understanding how it works, only playing 1 class. We’re beating a dead horse.

Play Marauder <anything> and compare amount of dodges/evades/blocks/heals with Marauder Rev, and you will find Rev pretty tanky compared to other Marauders.

Dreddful.4860:

Also buffing all healing might mae any burst class obsolete so thats another discussion!

It’s not about buffing healing, but buffing scaling with Healing Power, so mentioned above “builds” could be on pair with Druid if you would want to have support in your team with right amulet. Usualy you don’t want more 1-2 supportive guys, because they lack damage.

Dreddful.4860:

-Druids, why is the only healing class in the game? Poor decision, nerf healing or nerf damage

I would rather say buff: Support Guardians, Staff Eles, Blood/Death Necros, Ventari Revenant, Shout Warriors and maybe MedKit/Elixir Gun Engis… mostly its all about adding better scalling with Healing Power and adding some more team utility.

Dreddful.4860:

-Burnguard: Burst at RANGE, insane burst in melee, what were you guys thinking?

I think Burnguard is “squishy” and pretty bad vs AoE cleanses.

Dreddful.4860:

-Tanky Revenant builds, too tanky, way tankier than any other tank, also healing from being dealt damage? gg

Indeed, DPS Revenant seems to be too tanky. I would suggest to move dmg from Sword #3 (UA) to #2. This way #2 would be more useful and #3 still would be good evade/mightstacking ability.

Also Revanant requires buffs for other Legends than Shiro/Glint.

Dreddful.4860:

-Dragonhunter, nerf damage and traps

Buff sustained dmg, nerf burst dmg.

Sandrox.9524:

Firstly,CC’s are also soft CC’s such as chill and cripple are melee attackers nightmare dagger/warhorn with immo and daze, two fears + another immo #5 shroud , most run fear on CC trait.

What? Seriously?
If most = nearly nobody, then I agree. Death Magic is our weakest trait line since traits revamp and rarely anyone picks it, and I haven’t seen Reaper’s Protection used by anyone except trolololo Minion Mancers.

Sandrox.9524:

Yeah there are 11k thieves,but that doesnt matter wasnt talking about pure lifeblast dmg, I can down thief with one attack using spinal shiver trait auto proccess.

In hotjoin?

Sandrox.9524:

Necros considered range cause of wells,marks,death shroud,lich..ranger owns everything ranged cause he is RANGEr you cant possibly think necros needs to outrange the ranger? other proffesions like ele, are not as good in range as necro.

You know why I mentioned Ranger? Because core Rangers are the most kittentiest professions among all in game…

Sandrox.9524:

When you say condi necro, you mean core or reaper, cause reaper will engage melee and will spam dhuufire and chill from reapershroud.

When I say condi necro I mean Chillmancer obviously, because core necro is unplayable as condi since trait revamp… and condi Reaper will rarely engage into melee, you should rather just go into RS when you’re engaged and you have enough LF to exchange blows without losing any HP, then when your LF vanishes disengage with #2, simple as that.

Sandrox.9524:

Slick shoes very avoidable activate DS dodge away – done. Thieves and mesmers which on the same boat as Necros with stab dosnt complain.

You know that Thieves and Mesmers are +1 professions? Also, they have other tools to escape from nearly any opression (no cast time teleports, stealth on demand and evades).

Sandrox.9524:

I dont need my team to win to gain lf, im using the enviroment, not rushing, playing smart, when you got about 50% you can start be aggresive.Works every time.

So… match starts… you go cap close or w/e. Roamers (e.g. Thief+Mes/Thief+Engi/Ele+Thief) come to decap… all you can do is: activate Plague or Flesh Wurm and try to disengage with those, or miserably die.

Sandrox.9524:

1.Reapers dont use only stab and death charge.The majority use all espiecaly RS #5.

I haven’t said that Condi Reapers doesn’t use any skill with exception of #2 and #3, but that #2 and #3 are superior upgrade as defensive abilities. What is more Chillmancer can get good dmg from #1 (Dhumfire) and #4, while #5 can be useful as additional CC, but thats other side of the coin why standard Death’s Shroud deserves buffing.

However proper gameplay for Condi Reaper is still Ranged, you will engage into melee only when it can be advantage for you (to e.g. eat some damage with life force > hp and exchange few blows), since Condi Reaper game plan is attrition.

Sandrox.9524:

2.1 Lifeblast can kill a thief ….1!! it is that strong, there is another matter on how to use it, maybe you lacking that.

No, it can’t… seriously, how you want to deal 17k dmg with single Life Blast?

Note : Zerker Thief has 11,645 HP, while Marauder has 17,245 HP.
I would also remind that Thieves doesn’t play with Zerker because of their low base HP.

Sandrox.9524:

3.Foot in the grave is very good stab in pvp, if you get chain CC and you dont dodge it is your problem.It break stun so effectivly, it can lasted for two CC’s.

It’s so good stab that it does nothing vs Slick Shoes. Imho its only good as Stun Break, but if you compare it to Druid Major Trait (Druidic Clarity) which gives Stun Break and full cleanse on Celestial Avatar, it’s just bad… as GM trait that has two pretty good traits to compete with.

Sandrox.9524:

4.Core necro have lots of sustain cause he is ranged,two health pools, high base health and all sorts of CC’s. and because of the LF behaviour with spectral skills for instance.

First, Necro isn’t as much ranged as people say – only Staff has 1200 Range, you can’t compete with e.g. Ranger or DH on Range, you’re forced to use 900 Range Axe, 600 Range Scepter or more or less melee Dagger (which can Siphon Life at 600 Range) to deal damage.

Second, Life Force is good when your team is winning. You start with no Life Force at beginning of the match, which makes “double HP” often a mere myth (in games where people just focus Necro 1st).

Thrid thingie, what kind of “all sorts of CCs”?
Typical build has two Fears and two Immobilizes (if running Dagger), unless you want to count cripple/chill also? We’re talking about classic Necro.

Sandrox.9524:

5.I play about 10 games a day in pvp, seen Power reapers, and seen MM reapers(sort of), and seen condi reapers.Condi reapers dosnt use only engage/disenage.They use skills 4 that applies AoE poison and skill #5 for chill with deatlhy chill trait.So know the class before saying wrong stuff on forum.

I think I pretty well know my most played profession in PvP.
Anyway I’ve responded to rest of this part above.

Sandrox.9524:

The only thing your topic can make is nerfing the reaper so it will be more as the core one they will never buff the core one.

I disagree. Necro need buffs here and there to be viable and to not require Reaper for each single build to stay competitive…

Balerios.3679:

I was talking about Reaper and Base necro . While playing reaper , u obviously have reaper and soul reaping and spite ( for power necro ), this is the only viable way. But in base necro in the place of Reaper u got Blood magic , which obviously provide more sustain through heals wells and protections….. You doubt it but i dont . Reaper is a fine melee dps and ppl that use it for espace and stability are braindead i dare to say . Condi dmg is kind of unavoidable in terms of that the only way to get it off is through condi cleanse , were most classes have 1? 2? . In direct damage u have blocks evades toughness!!!Once a condi hits u ,if cleanse is on cooldown u get dmg until it expires . But with direct dmg is dif ,its either u get the hit or not . and not to mention toughness that helps to reduce direct dmg. I was playing ranked before and was doing well . now with reaper i will do even better , im sure. Im talking about my spvp experience here. so i dunno what are u talking about .

I guess both Leeto and Nos have to be braindead noobs if they play Chillmancer ;-(

Anyway, condi is a as much avoidable as power is and you avoid it exacly the same way as you avoid power damage, the only thing is toughness doesn’t help. You can dodge/evade/block/interrupt skills that apply condi damage at it’s not applied to you, nothing to cleanse…

1-2s delay on skillz

Sunshine.5014:

The problem with GW2 is that the balance is too extreme. Burst build can busrt too fast (often from stealth) and bunker can stay alive for too long.

The result? Newbies are constantly dying to burst builda and they can’t take down the bunker builds either. To them, it’s a frustrating experience, and that’s why you will never see an end to QQ about the extreme builds (DH that can burst you in 2s, or Druid that refuse to die 1v2)

As long as GW2 doesn’t close the gap between extreme bunker and extreme burst, we will continue to hear people QQ about it. They just couldn’t find the right words to explain their frustration, and it looks like they are QQing about random build.

Read more about how to make GW2 more fun:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-needs-to-be-fun-to-play-watch/first

I agree.

I vote for Berserker.
We could start with “Can we delete Berserker?” thread?
It could be good start with rebalancing Warrior to enjoyable state…

Balerios.3679:

Well from my experience base necro has great sustain . I can stay more time alive than with Reaper . ( Blood magic , helps a lot )

I really don’t know what you’re talking about. Soul Reaping gives much better survi than Blood Magic, even weakness and free condi transfer on crit proc coming from Curses basicaly has more value than those small siphoning numbers. I dare to say that Blood and Death are completly underpowered to SReaping/Spite/Curses and Reaper now.

Balerios.3679:

how many ppl have u encountered that cc lock u ? Cause i hardly see anyone.

Basicaly anyone who has CCs and chain those – Engis are prime example of chained CCs with Slick Shoes when you’re “marked” target. Its always Flesh Wurm or die as non-Reaper.

Balerios.3679:

Because most ppl use RS to disengage ( i LOLED hard on this ) and stability that doesnt mean its the way . I dont do what most ppl do . If i get with RS to a crowd and they make a mistake not to focus me or run away . they are all dead . Do we play the same game?RS is melee oriented and ur supposed to be close to your enemies . RS 2 is a GAP CLOSER not an escape button LOL

I doubt it.

Balerios.3679:

And yes DS 1 does tones of dmg thats why is slow . i was hitting 9k crits just with a simple auto attack . I dont get what tones of dmg is for you?

If you go full damage glass build (Zerker) and you somehow stack some might, get all the procs on and your target is other Zerker with low hp (<50%), then yeah, you can hit hard. Otherwise Life Blast doesn’t crit as hard, even with 25 stacked Might as e.g. Cele.

Balerios.3679:

And wtf is that new trend with condi necro ? yes its cool it has some nice unavoidable dmg

First, it’s not new trend. Chillmancers is upgrade to Terrormancer, which was meta build pre trait line rebuild. Second, this damage isn’t unavoidable, your attacks have to hit to apply delayed damage instead of instant damage and it can be cleansed.

Balerios.3679:

I see myself playing power necro and its GREAT .

Once Ranked season will start in next month, please play power necro and share with us your GREAT results with it ;-)

Balerios.3679:

At least i can do dmg ( with power necro i got plenty of whispers calling me broken , OP, cheater . cause 10k gravedigger hurts .. I got 0 whispers with condi necro )

Then stop playing Hotjoin with F2P newbies who got no clues about game and complain about average stuff and call it broken.

Burtnik.5218:

MarauderShields.6830:

Sylent.3165:

4. How to beat UA. Retaliation works wonders, as does blocks, and a simple double dodge will make nearly all a revenants damage go bye bye. You then have 12 seconds to take them down, watch for there heal, lay off for 3 seconds and finish them.

Whenever someone tells you to double-dodge an attack that has a 12 sec cooldown you know he’s full of …

How you dodge rapid fire in open field? And what else you really have to dodge from revenant?

RF doesn’t have attached evade for its duration, so you can just hit Ranger back or interrupt RF easily and if it’s used on “max range” you can just step out of it.

Larynx.2453:

Ragnarox.9601:

CoR need to be toned down. Other classes hammer skills do not have not even close dmg as CoR (hammer 2#) plus its CD is 2 sec….need to be increased cd to 4 sec.
UA needs to be toned down to 3 attacks…and bring cd down to 10 sec.
= balance

Nerfing the damage of an ability by 60% = forum balance

Nerfing ability CD by 400% = dev balance. Which is worse?

UA is Might stacking/evade ability, it doesn’t have to even deal any serious damage to be good.

Fluffball.8307:

Why do people not understand the game is constantly trying to match you people that challenge you enough so that you win some, you lose some?

You’re SUPPOSED to have a 50% win rate. If you’re doing better than that, congrats, you’re beating people the game thinks are better than you.

If you have an 80% win rate you’re either god-like, or stomping the kitten out of new players.

I remember having long win streaks on my Ranger during one of test seasons (so my Ranger had around 85% win ratio at certain moment) and I don’t think MM was throwing me logs under legs. On other side I couldn’t do better than 50% with Bunker Guard ;-(
For sure nor I or my build back then was god-like, nor I was stomping newcomers.

I think your thesis about MM trying to make you win no more than 50% isn’t true. MM is just bad or it was working much better for Ranked.

Kosard.9720:

and lastly, STOP CATERING TO ESPORTS you are not league of legends you are not a MOBA you cannot have the same system with an MMO, CLEARLY IT DOES NOT WORK. STOP IT.

LoLwas cattering to “casuals” as much as possible, thats why it got so big player base and became Esportz… thats because Esportz is for “hardcore” players and to have enough “hardcore” players you need to have big enough player base.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Morwath.9817:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Morwath.9817:

Bhawb.7408:

Soul Eater isn’t that good, in fact once I get to Reaper I’ll be comparing it to Forceful Greatsword again as for why that is the case.

I would say that Soul Eater isn’t good not because it’s bad trait (it would be awesome with Axe imho), but because GS isn’t.

No, it’s because they slapped a small siphon on the slowest hitting skill the weapon has.

Its not small, it gives twice as much life siphon than Vampiric and Vampiric Prescence combined together…

But it can only proc once per second +aftercast, and even then only if the target is below 50% health, whereas both Vampiric and Vampiric Presence can proc on every hit with any weapon, even while in Death Shroud.

You’re right.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Morwath.9817:

Bhawb.7408:

Soul Eater isn’t that good, in fact once I get to Reaper I’ll be comparing it to Forceful Greatsword again as for why that is the case.

I would say that Soul Eater isn’t good not because it’s bad trait (it would be awesome with Axe imho), but because GS isn’t.

No, it’s because they slapped a small siphon on the slowest hitting skill the weapon has.

Its not small, it gives twice as much life siphon than Vampiric and Vampiric Prescence combined together…

Bhawb.7408:

Soul Eater isn’t that good, in fact once I get to Reaper I’ll be comparing it to Forceful Greatsword again as for why that is the case.

I would say that Soul Eater isn’t good not because it’s bad trait (it would be awesome with Axe imho), but because GS isn’t.

If anything you should compare to Soul Eater (Reaper GS Major trait), which is even better than Forceful GS.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Eater

NeXeD.3042:

Why do I keep seeing people post stuff like no one’s using power reaper…. I know there are some people in this forum who just constantly push for condi, but it’s not really better for anything except 1v1s. And for those saying every reaper they fight is condi? Yeah people used to qq at me when I was running a berserker build because they thought I was condi lol…. from what I’ve seen the best Reapers I’ve run into have been mostly power, only ran into one good condi one so far but I really didn’t have a chance against him anyway because he is double range and I’m full melee.

Let me guess… probably because both best Necros (Leeto on EU and Nos on NA) are playing Condi Chillomancer and people will rather follow their builds than some imaginary builds?;)

glaphen.5230:

Yes I said zerkers, Shatters from long range with what clone generating skills, or are you going melee and lose the GS damage.

Have you ever played Mesmer or you’re trolling? Anyway Gnite.

glaphen.5230:

Morwath.9817:

glaphen.5230:

Scrimschaw.5784:

glaphen.5230:

Scrimschaw.5784:

glaphen.5230:

My god you are kittened. How do you write this much and refuse to do the simple thing of going on to your main class and testing it yourself. It’s .9 per cast because it’s .3 per pulse, kitten off if you refuse to test something used in other abilities too. Just because something was nerfed once does not make it balanced. Daze isn’t their only CC and again only the CA3 has a cast time but it also casts multiple times and heals. Even if you predict it (which isn’t a valid argument) everyone on the team has to do the same and still all dodge CA3 2-3 times while still being hit by other dazes and CC from the Druid/pet and suffer immobilize spam from CA5/any AoE daze combined with an AoE hit.

If you can provide the calculations, please do so. I am interested to know why Druid staff damage works differently than every other damage source in the game. Otherwise, I am done with you. Your main argument is that you want Druids to be nerfed so they aren’t a challenge for your team, and you refuse to use any skillful play to counter abilities.

It’s basic GW2 logic, if it says (number x) then the damage calculation is already done where number is the max amount of hits of the skill and the damage if all hits hit. If it doesn’t say that and hits multiple times then that is the damage of each hit. Mesmer greatsword clearly says (3x) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Solar_Beam this doesn’t so you multiply what you see by the pulses. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault This skill hits 7 times for 202 with .715 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Scars This hits twice for 235 with 1.2 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade This skill hits two times for 121 with .3305 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy This skill does 880 damage over 8 hits with 2.4 scaling over 8 hits. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades This skill does 1571 over 8 hits with 4.21 scaling over 8 hits and finishes with a 410 hit with 1.1 scaling.

Thank you for providing numbers (no formulas), but you are still mistaken. Guild Wars 2 math logic follows the same rules as other math logic. I have provided you the formula for base damage according to the Guild Wars 2 wiki and shown you the calculations. The power multiplier does not scale with the number of hits according to the equation off of which in-game Guild Wars 2 damage is based. There is nothing more I can do for you here.

Are you serious just go kittening test it in game already, tired of dealing with you. Go kill a dummy with zerker Druid staff and Mesmer GS basic attacks, see which kills it first.

I dare you to use all Druid “attacks” and all Mesmer attacks, and post again who killed Dummy first ;-)

Alright let’s add in pets too, don’t forget to add in AoE spam so the zerkers die instantly with 1 attack off at most. Wisp spam is a damage increase too.

Sure, don’t forget to count damage from Phantasm and Shatters…

glaphen.5230:

Scrimschaw.5784:

glaphen.5230:

Scrimschaw.5784:

glaphen.5230:

My god you are kittened. How do you write this much and refuse to do the simple thing of going on to your main class and testing it yourself. It’s .9 per cast because it’s .3 per pulse, kitten off if you refuse to test something used in other abilities too. Just because something was nerfed once does not make it balanced. Daze isn’t their only CC and again only the CA3 has a cast time but it also casts multiple times and heals. Even if you predict it (which isn’t a valid argument) everyone on the team has to do the same and still all dodge CA3 2-3 times while still being hit by other dazes and CC from the Druid/pet and suffer immobilize spam from CA5/any AoE daze combined with an AoE hit.

If you can provide the calculations, please do so. I am interested to know why Druid staff damage works differently than every other damage source in the game. Otherwise, I am done with you. Your main argument is that you want Druids to be nerfed so they aren’t a challenge for your team, and you refuse to use any skillful play to counter abilities.

It’s basic GW2 logic, if it says (number x) then the damage calculation is already done where number is the max amount of hits of the skill and the damage if all hits hit. If it doesn’t say that and hits multiple times then that is the damage of each hit. Mesmer greatsword clearly says (3x) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Solar_Beam this doesn’t so you multiply what you see by the pulses. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault This skill hits 7 times for 202 with .715 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Scars This hits twice for 235 with 1.2 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade This skill hits two times for 121 with .3305 scaling per hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy This skill does 880 damage over 8 hits with 2.4 scaling over 8 hits. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades This skill does 1571 over 8 hits with 4.21 scaling over 8 hits and finishes with a 410 hit with 1.1 scaling.

Thank you for providing numbers (no formulas), but you are still mistaken. Guild Wars 2 math logic follows the same rules as other math logic. I have provided you the formula for base damage according to the Guild Wars 2 wiki and shown you the calculations. The power multiplier does not scale with the number of hits according to the equation off of which in-game Guild Wars 2 damage is based. There is nothing more I can do for you here.

Are you serious just go kittening test it in game already, tired of dealing with you. Go kill a dummy with zerker Druid staff and Mesmer GS basic attacks, see which kills it first.

I dare you to use all Druid “attacks” and all Mesmer attacks, and post again who killed Dummy first ;-), Druid staff has average DPS and lack any ability to burst, while Mesmer GS is a BURST weapon.

I see serious questions, lets have serious answers.
I’m usualy ignoring this “competitive” scene for few reasons, but your attitude in this topic has drawn my attention. You may consider it a bit harsh, but I guess you asked for it.

masskillerxploit.2165:

I’m sry what team are you on?

Why would I even want to join/form a team? So far prizes were so low I wouldn’t even bother if I just could get same or more money by visiting my local store and win FNM or other store organized tournament on weekly basis while playing MTG even less than seriously?

masskillerxploit.2165:

Have you ever performed well in a ESL?

Let me repeat, was there any reason to even “compete” in ESL so far? No?
Also, did you ever performed well in ESL yourself? Or you’re just performing in it? I thought you can’t beat one team since 40 weeks or so (?), I’ve already lost track for how long Abjured is melting faces on NA.

masskillerxploit.2165:

If you cannot answer these questions then I would re-evaluate your definition of casual.

How much money have you earned in competitive events (in any game) by winning them (losing, e.g. being #2 doesn’t count)?

masskillerxploit.2165:

And: if you are not playing the game as much as people would need to, to compete at ESL level

I’m not, I wouldn’t even join it. But since you’ve asked question, you should also ask yourself. Do you play this game enough to compete against Abjured?

masskillerxploit.2165:

to compete at ESL level

Lets take NA scene as example, who can compete on entire NA scene except Abjured?

masskillerxploit.2165:

what constitutes a casual from a player that cares to win in these high level competitions?

Nothing. Caring to win and winning are two different things. I’ve seen many “casual” players taking part in MTG tournaments and never winning a single 1$. We’re they not casuals because they tried to?

masskillerxploit.2165:

I’m pretty sure if u r not an elite, you are a casual, (at least this is what I mean, in my orginal post)

Then, you’ve to be casual yourself (at last this is what I mean, in my orginal post).

Btw, I remember few days ago someone complained on forums that players from “competitive” teams got horrible attitudes (with exception of Abjured) and it’s impossible to even root for them.
——————————————————————————————————
Edit: Do you really believe number of participants is so high, that limiting and filtering “casuals” will make GW2 “competitive” scene grow? I’ve been playing MTG for years, until I got bored with it and no single event, even minor qualifier was happning on other day than friday/weekend.

You can counter boon stacking with Necros loads of boon corruption.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Morwath.9817:

You skipped Rangers -chill duration, yo.

Do they have it? I don’t see it on the Wiki, so I didn’t list it. I just mentioned the things I could find after a very quick search.

In Druid trait line.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Natural_Stride

You skipped Rangers -chill duration, yo.

Rezzet.3614:

takes 2 seconds from a reaper to go from 0-100% life force anyways

Only if entire enemy fear Reaper so much they jump off cliff and die.

Insane… team which can’t win a single ESL is calling people casuals because they got real life.

NeXeD.3042:

The only thing happening here is someone on their troll acct because they don’t want a bad rep on their real acct is kittening about reapers and has a ton of completely false information which he is trying to spread in an attempt to get reaper nerfed.

…but so far nobody agreed with OP?

Balerios.3679:

“old necro " is based on RANGED gameplay.

Majority of “Reapers” use RS only for stability (#3) and to disengage (#2) while stil focus on RANGED gameplay. I would also like to note that other “RANGED” professions got proper tools to disengage from combat.

Balerios.3679:

Do u expect to stay safe on range to do tones of damage with DS 1 and have stability?

First, Life Blast doesn’t do “tones of damage” compared to other Power specs damage output, you should also mind that Life Blast has horrible long cast which can be easily interrupted, dodged or w/e.

Second, I don’t except to have free stability, I except GM traits to be useful.

Balerios.3679:

Also "old necro " has GREAT SUSTAIN , this answers why u dont have engage d-engage skills . You are supposed to SUSTAIN .

Where does that “GREAT SUSTAIN” comes from? PvE?
Celestial D/D Ele had “GREAT SUSTAIN”, “old necro” doesn’t have any sutain in PvP, unless you fight complete noobs who can’t just focus and CC lock you.

Balerios.3679:

Reaper from the other side is melle oriented . So ofc it needs stability and some oh kitten buttons . And it does well with that . There is completely dif gameplay between "old necro " and reaper

Imho you’re wrong. I see people using RS more as disengage tool and stability source in PvP as Condi Reapers. Also, barely see anyone playing Power, won’t even say a word about GS.

Warscythes.9307:

I don’t think death shroud being worse at mobility and tankiness(dark path+lack of stability) compared to reaper shroud is an issue because it is ranged. Reaper shroud should be better at being focused/cc’d and more mobile.

I think core necro has a few issues but the main one right now is that as nearlight said, death shroud is pretty useless for condi builds. I would like some bleed/poison/torment whatever condi on shroud 4 and a faster projectile speed on shroud 2. Maybe lower the cast speed but also lower the damage of life blast to keep consistent dps but dhuumfire can be used a bit more effectively. Keep in mind though that life blast actually does more dps than Reaper scythe right now if you are within 600 range so I am not sure on it.

That’s about it. Rest of the traits like issues with dhuumfire is fine I believe, others such as foot in the grave is just weak in general with or without the reaper comparison. That should be another topic completely as we need to look at the class as a whole.

Imho lack of stability and proper disengage tool is what makes core Necro so bad whenever he gets focused by more than more person. It’s main profession weakness that got eliminated by Reaper trait line.

However you’re pretty right about lack of proper sources of condi damage or too long cast for Life Blast for classic DS. Thats another lacking area which could get some attention before start of ranked season.

Spicy.2481:

Even base necro has enough disengage if u equip the proper utilities, ie. spectral walk and flesh wurm. Especially flesh wurm is really awesome to escape dire situations pretty much instantly if u placed ur flesh wurm wisely within the 1200 range.

Being forced to pick horrible version of Lightning Flash is main reason why we rarely seen Necromancers played in competitive matches in the past. I wouldn’t call Flesh Wurm and/or Spectral Walk awesome in any scenario, we just need put them on our skill bars to have any chances to reset combat in game where every other class has Leaps, Teleports or other mobility skills.

Cynz.9437:

runeblade.7514:

This is how traps should work.

If you fall for a trap, you die. Simple as that.

where do thief traps fit into this logic, please explain~

…or Ranger traps.

I agree, for example my “QQ” how outdated core Necro is: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Reaper-and-core-Necromancer-problems-in-PvP/first#post5732250

Andy.8543:

So, i create 3 Phantasms, clones or illusions, then my F keys do the damage :/ normally when i use F1 they dont seem to do a vast amount of damage :/

You can read some tips here:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_Mantra_Lockdown

Andy.8543:

What i prefer? I love the mesmer idea… but i feel incredibly weak. I run Staff in one hand, And double sword in the other. I’ve gone into the Dueling Talent tree and the tree that allows me to use ‘Decoy’. Thinking it would gain me some survivability. I love the mage idea, and the fact that Mesmers are mage like, but with combat to boot was perfect for me. But i just cant help but feel like im either doing something wrong, or that my character goes massively overwhelmed, and my decoys dont do any damage :/

You do damage with F1-5 with your Ilusions/Phantasms/Clones.

Patchi.9061:

Can we delete Reaper from the game? Just too much.

You mean its so bad you can’t handle it?
…or maybe you mean you’re sick of constant chills, fears and stuns?

Javonovich.5280:

Warscythes.9307:

Condi Reaper is one of the top builds right now, don’t know exactly what you are doing, especially after they buffed deathly chill we are a really strong condi class in PvP.

Also take flesh wurm if you want disengage.

What’s the typical condi build now with reaper?

Spite, Soul Reaping, Reaper
Signets, Flesh Wurm, Chilled to the Bone
Carrion, Nightmare, Scepter/Dagger, Staff

I would like to complain about design of Reaper. Not because it’s too weak or too strong, but because it feels like just upgrade of core Necromancer, while leaving core profession with all issues it had before HoT release.

We’re happy as Necromancers that Reaper give us new tools and that we’re more viable than before, but we’re heavily forced to pick Reaper trait line to stay competitve for any build, while players like me who are big fans of old Death’s Shroud would prefer to stick wild good old Necromancer.

And before you say “Buy HoT!”, I’ve already bought it, but I dislike to being forced to play something new, while I more enjoyed old… but lets talk about certain issues:

Reaper’s Shroud vs Death’s Shroud
-> As we know Necromancers always got issues with engaging/disengaging Death’s Charge (RS #2) is solution to this core issue. However “core” Necromancers still got issue since Dark Path doesn’t offer any kind of engage/disengage tool, which could be fixed e.g. by turning it into teleport like Lightning Flash.
-> Infusing Terror (RS #3) – Seems to cover lack of stability of Necromancers, while “core” Necromancers still have this issue. Soul Reaping GM trait (Foot in the Grave) is outdated and even as GM trait can’t help Necromancer avoiding CC chains, because it grants only 1 stack of stability.

Reaper traits vs “core” traits
-> I also don’t like Deathly Chill being so superior to Terror (requires buff to be viable), while Terror got left behind as completly outdated.
-> Same issue with Blighter’s Boon which seems to be newer and stronger version of Unholy Sanctuary (requires buff to be viable).
-> Dhumfire is pretty good trait for Reaper (alot faster #1 of RS than DS), while it’s completly horrible with core Necro, maybe it should get better scalling (read: buff) in classic Death’s Shroud?

Thanks for reading my QQ.

Xero Kaiser.6174:

I poke my head out and get immediately destroyed. Half the time I don’t even know what hit me.

Invisible bugged traps. Yo.

princode.2750:

why is DH not nerf yet

Because DH doesn’t need a nerf, but rather rebalance. Traps should be less deadly while his weapon skill should be more threating as long as traps are trained… it’s kinda stupid that players are forced to dodge “passive” (often used before fight) traps instead of “active” attacks.