Guild Wars 2

Well then, Lyssa may have had a large family, either that or kudos to Abaddon for landing a set of twins :P

This makes me wonder though, why the avatar of Lyssa has no problem assisting us in killing Abaddon in Nightfall. My best guess there is that they were in fact lovers and the war forced him to abandon her. This would cause the recognizable quote, “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.” I can see very little instances where someone would actually help in the murder of their sibling, though gods are very different from people, and they have their own reasons for doing things.

Note – Entire post is speculation.

Well then it wouldn’t necessarily be the races corrupting it, but the gods. When they came to Tyria perhaps it was a much different place, and they ‘corrupted’ it to their standards. This would lend credibility to the theory that the Elder Dragons were once the ‘gods’ of Tyria.

The only thing that may go towards them being visible is in the beginning of the Ring of Fire mission where Brechnar (sp?) sees the massive army of Mursaat ahead of you and lures them away so that you can get through. Also there are a few dwarves fighting off the mursaat on the beach, though they do not last long. After that though your character and the others with you are the only ones to see them, as well as the Vizier.

Hmm, so it seems that Lyssa may have made some gains from the fall of Abaddon (complete speculation).

I doubt they will do much in the realm of dragon lore for the Halloween party. I mean they usually had decent lore drops during their holidays in GW1, but nothing on a major extent. Then again this is Guild Wars 2 not the original so I would be definitely excited if they proved me wrong

So in other words, the only real option is that the Kodan were given the wrong dialogue and ArenaNet needs to figure this out? I personally prefer the point of view that the inlet to the sea from the north leads to the location that Jormag awoke. It makes sense that his abode would be feeding into this new body of water that flooded much of Norn Territory. And since it is connected to this very large body of water it could still be said that he awoke under the area now known as the “Drakkar Sea” (speculation to the possible name). Notably though there is still quite a bit of water north of even Sifhalla which was the northern-most norn settlement, going off of that_Shaman’s map.

Except the steam creatures show no sign of corrupting other living beings, unlike the undead who can apparently spread Zhaitan’s power of undeath over the creatures they slay.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mad_King_Thorn

That’ll give you about as much background as we know about him in the first paragraph.

[spoiler=] Just missing the second bracket.

The only problem with your theory is the fact that there actually is no bloodstone very close by. The bloodstone that we know about within the maguuma is much further north in the Maguuma Wastes where, interestingly enough, a vast desert has claimed the jungle. Also, if you can claim it’s magic reaches from near the middle of the Maguuma Wastes all the way down to the grove, then your theory is also flawed because of the fact that the second tree is likely even closer to the bloodstone than this one because of the trajectory that we are shown for roughly where the second tree is

So here is a thought that I was having while playing through Nightfall that I wanted to put out there. When it comes to Abaddon and him having strength greater than any individual other god, what if he was a god when he came to Tyria. Now I know the Apostate talks many times about Abaddon having a predecessor, but what about this. We get the impression that there are other godlike beings within the mists, such as the assumed spider god Arachnia. What if Abaddon was a huntsman, a slayer of beings and a stealer of powers. This would explain his ability, said in the wiki, to take any two of the 5 gods on, but his inability to stand against the might of the combined 5.

Honestly right now I’m just prompting Konig to tell me something about Abaddon that was revealed in Orr that I have been unable to find cause I’ve really just started exploring it.

Whew, thanks Konig for cleaning up that mess. Also speaking to the invisibility part, The whole point of going into the crystal desert to ascend was so that you could see through their invisibility disguise. This is stated by the Vizier and other NPC’s.

I only read that tyria would be changed with decorations not that there would be more explorable map. And that there would be new mini-games, but yeah, nothing about new explorable content.

Many people seem to like this theory that there is a 6th elder dragon that is more powerful than the rest and/or is good or neutral. The thing is that there is no evidence to show that any elder dragon would have any reason to be good.

Now that this has been said, I want to point out that from some points of view it could be said that the elder dragons themselves are neutral and not evil. Why would I say this, you ask? Well would anyone consider a sandstorm evil? a hurricane? a earthquake? Of course we wouldn’t, these are forces of nature with no malicious motivations, and the Elder dragons are the same, though this may be hard to believe.

As I said, that was merely my artistic viewpoint as to what the situation might represent, nothing more.

I just had another thought by the way which might help a little to make sense of your conundrum. Perhaps the entire northern sea has been called Drakkar since the time of Jormag’s awakening. I noted that the area in the northernmost corner of Frostgorge Sound is called Drakkar spurs, and it seems to be an outlet for the northern sea. This might make sense out of his awakening happening north, yet still by some being considered to have awakened under Drakkar.

Sorry, I guess I should specify, she was in the original GW.

Yeah Devona was a quest giver early in the game, and she eventually became a henchman that followed the characters throughout the campaigns. So more than likely this is alluding to either the place of her death, or the place where she settled down.

I do not know what to tell you, but if you get a chance to explore Frostgorge further I recommend the northwestern corner, because that area was where the kodan told me about his awakening under Drakkar if I remember correctly.

See personally I had attributed this to the fact that on Tyria Dhuum represented death, and you cannot kill death, thus all you can do is weaken and imprison him. I highly doubt that Grenth would have been displeased if we accidentally happened to kill Dhuum and gave the whole of the powers to Grenth. That being said though this was entirely my reading into the situation, and not lore based.

As for my claim on humanity becoming very advanced without knowledge of the gods, perhaps I was mistaken. I do specifically remember, though, that the Tyrian humans knew nothing of the Canthan humans until they randomly traveled to the continent, and that the biggest reason that there was no war between these factions of humanity was because of the much more advanced state of the humans of Cantha. I read this on the original GW wiki, sadly it’s been years and I have no clue what article it was.

Actually everything I’ve read today, as I explored Frostgorge Sound says that he awoke directly beneath Drakkar Lake, perhaps in a larger underground cavern or something else. And yes, I have had my theories about both Mount Maelstrom and the Maguuma Wastes being caused by the bloodstones, perhaps dragons tampering with them, or perhaps their magic trying to work against the dragon’s magic. This is all entirely theoretical though. But we do know that there are bloodstones at both of these locations, 1 in bloodstone fen, and 1 located between the ice caves of sorrow mission and the bloodstone caves dungeon. I think it is too much of a coincidence to be ignored though.

I gotta say Caithe was one of my favorites, which makes me sad seeing just how depressed she was getting throughout the dungeon stories and the mail she sent me.

Caithe could have stabbed them both in the back at the very beginning if she had wanted. She’s just smarter than that

That is possibly true, but way back in those days no individual mortal stood a chance against a full fledged god. Even our heroes in GW1 only killed the tormented, bodiless husk of Abaddon directly after he broke his shackles, and when it comes to Dhuum it seems that it is impossible to kill him.

This is just a thought on the dragon we call six, whether or not we call him Mordramoth. This elder dragon, if it exists and/or is still alive, has a control of nature and/or poison. Now there is 1 area in Tyria where major changes are taking place when it comes to the natural landscape and we have no current elder dragon to point to as the cause of it, and that is the Maguuma Wastes. Now I know that this area has been somewhat desert like since GW1, but things have definitely gotten worse in the area over the past few centuries. Now personally I would attribute this, as well as Mount Maelstrom, to the bloodstones found in the respective areas, but the sixth elder dragon also seems like a possibility. My only issue with the sixth elder dragon living in Tyria, the continent, is the fact that it seems strange that they should all be centered around that 1 continent, with the exception of Bubbles.

You got to also notice that Captain Calhann is in a location very far away from where the Great Northern Wall mission happened. I have a feeling that this is just a symbol of history repeating itself because of the curse of the Foefire.

I know for a fact that in GW1 there was a group of people that came together on a specific day and had a Mursaat Awareness Day, or something of the sort, where they were basically trying to point out the reasons that the mursaat were not entirely evil. ArenaNet caught wind of this event and decided to have a little fun. The players were surprised to suddenly see a group of mursaat enter the town and massacre everyone within. Just a fun article I read once upon a time.

In the original Guild Wars there are 2 quests where if you are a necromancer you hunt down two other necromancers that have betrayed the order of necromancers. I know this because my main character was a necromancer. The first was Oberan the Reviled who created minions and was carving out an undead nation of his own from the shattered remains of Ascalon. The second was Verata who you had to fight off in the Northern Shiverpeaks because he was preying on the Ascalonian refugees, killing them or experimenting on them to make stronger minions. You eventually get to kill him as well, after fighting your way through his cult in Kessex Peak. So from the human perspective necromancers are generally feared, and it is shown that their minions can be reviled, but they are accepted as long as they follow the rules of the order. Sadly I know nothing about how the other races feel about necromancy, seeing as my only other one is a Sylvari.

Interesting, I had read that article a long time back, and guess I had forgotten this part (pun intended).

I do have to ask how any of that, except for the fact that he has been under attack for some time before we arrive has to do with comparing Zhaitan right after awakening and during the battle. Now I’ve never fought the battle myself, but that being said, when Zhaitan awoke he had none of the power that he gained during his time after awakening, and he had no minions. In this instant, out of mere thought, he raised an entire continent from the depths of the ocean cause he didn’t like being wet. It seems like a creature that could do that would be a very formidible foe in battle.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

the forgotten were in Cantha too.

Now I’m not calling you out on anything, but I am interested as to where you read that the forgotten were in Cantha, remembering that the naga and forgotten are two different races (at least according to ArenaNet during the original GW)

Intersting, I believe I went with Kormir so i didn’t remember that. I guess I gotta remember lore is changing hourly in this new world.

You know Asgard, I’d never thought about that. Both the Pirates and the Zaishen have a large holding on Lion’s Arch, and Lion’s Arch is the commerce hub of Tyria so it makes a lot of sense that their system of copper/silver/gold would take standard over the old system.

Hmm, I had always thought lyssa retained control over non-elemental chaos magic, as opposed to a certain element, seeing as according to the GW1 lore water attuned elementalists would favor grenth. Now this being said, I have to admit I have yet to finish the GW2 game, and most of my speculation and understanding come from my knowledge of GW1 as opposed to from playing through Orr (which I have not yet entered)

Well, someone has obviously found the Eye of the North within the last 250 years the question is who. Because all of the statues and tapestries have been removed and there is a large asuran gate to give the reasoning behind being able to teleport there.

Dude, if you could purchase books from the book carts in Divinity’s Reach and create your own library, I would totally create one to put the Durmand Priory to shame!

I wanted to make an update on my post (and I couldn’t figure out how to edit it)

I originally at the end said “… , perhaps trapping much gold and treasure within the now unusable by it’s owners.” I believe I was distracted by something and what I had meant to say did not come through. This is roughly what I meant.

“And at the same time, roughly, the connection to Cantha was cut off, both by the empire and Zhaitan, perhaps trapping much gold and treasure within the now unusable Xunlai Chests, inaccessible to it’s owners.”

That’s very true, if they do release anything like that for an Elona expansion, it will definitely be at least a year or more down the road, but again, just so my position is clear, I highly doubt it. I feel more likely that our characters acting on behalf of the Mad King will trigger Joko to take some actions in the original Guild Wars that will lead to the Elona beyond expansion.

Well, trolls gotta eat too… And no one said that trolls ate only meats

I know this may be something that isn’t of interest to anyone else, but I noticed it just today and it made me wonder. I know there isn’t any general interest in this, but it is still a curiosity, and I do feel like it has a root in lore.

I noticed the other day that the value of gold has risen dramatically. In the original game you’d gain gold at very high rates, sometimes 300 would drop from a high lvl boss. And once you got to 100 gold you would get 1 platinum, which was the highest rate of currency. Now we move into GW2, and what do you get from drops? copper? in fact you learn that the place of platinum is taken by gold, and platinum itself seems to have disappeared as currency. Now I understand that this doesn’t necessarily have to have an in game reason, but it’s no fun just shrugging ideas like this off without trying to imagine why.

Now to me the simplest reason sits with the rise of Zhaitan. You see in the original GW there were two major seats of trade and currency and that was Lion’s Arch and Kamadan. These were major port cities, adventurers from all over came there to trade and save their resources, and in a single day both of these were taken away. Lion’s Arch was completely demolished and sunk by the rise of Zhaitan, more than likely leaving much of it’s riches to the corsairs that eventualy settled in it’s vicinity. At the same time Zhaitan’s navy cut off any access to Kamadan, if the city was still free from Joko. And at the same time, roughly, the connection to Cantha was cut off, both by the empire and Zhaitan, perhaps trapping much gold and treasure within the now unusable by it’s owners. Anyone else have any ideas? Perhaps the inclusion of the other races into 1 currency brought up the worth of the single gold piece?

The tengu lost the ability to fly long before even the original GW.

Yeah, I remember spoilering Shiro and the Lich within the Realm of Torment during the Gate of Madness mission. My post was talking mainly to the comment above about the jade wind being a gift from Abaddon.

More than likely the names of these areas are just used to showcase the Grawl’s extreme religiousness.

Oh, I do believe that he will have an influence on the game, I mean he already definitely has, but I highly doubt that he will be leading an army against Palawa Joko. The game developers mentioned that Thorn’s attempts to escape into the world had attracted “someone else’s” attention. My curiosity is who we are going to unleash on the world by following Thorn’s courtiers in their attempt to release him.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

.

Your power/corruption argument also fails with Lyssa/Kralkatorrik since Zhaitan and Jormag also corrupt the mind.

Abaddon wasn’t the god of ice – ever.

I have to point out that I was talking about corruption, not the other guy, and when i was talking about corruption of the mind, body and soul I wasn’t talking about what the dragons eventually corrupted, because in that sense every dragon corrupts every part, but instead I was talking about the way in which the dragons corrupt individuals. Zhaitan seems to kill his enemies then attach their soul to their body and force it to do his will, while Kralkatorrik’s corruption is much more sudden, by corrupting the body instantaneously which forces the mind to follow shortly after. And Jormag fights more on a personal basis by tearing away a character’s mind and forcing it to his will. After he takes over their mind the body slowly becomes corrupted, eventually becoming a being of corrupted ice.

On a side note, Abaddon was the god of water, which gives sense to the fact that his followers were a major group of seafarers. And that Grenth took over water magic after Abaddon was cast down, changing it to ice attunement.

I have to disagree with the fact that there is no interest in going over to Cantha. The Durmand Priory would have countless reasons to move into Cantha, the least of which being the interest in the Canthan culture and history, along with luxon, kurzick, tengu, naga, warden, and let us not forget the dwarves. I realize that there were no dwarves in Cantha when we visited, but there were definitely areas where Dwarven architecture seemed possible, and the rumor of dwarves living there would be a definite interest for the priory, especially ancient dwarven ruins which likely have much more definitive information about the Elder Dragons compared to the newer excavations which may have been changed over the years for political reasons (tome of Rubicon)

Zesbeer.8365:

Lutinz.6915:

I still cant help but think that the Sylvari have some connection to the Wardens from Factions. It could be these trees have been around in hidden areas for a long time. Hell Urgoz may have been an avatar/embodiment in the same way the Pale Tree has.

my running guess is that the druids that you find in guild wars 1 are the actual first sylvari.

I actually have to disagree here. The druids were actually Krytans that moved into the Maguuma Jungle and became one with nature, eventually shedding their physical form, at least this was the lore given to us in GW1.

Now, I may be wrong, but I don’t remember reading anywhere that the gods brought humanity to Tyria. In fact, I remember reading that the first humans (who were the canthans, kurzicks, and luxons) lived for quite some time and became very advanced without any knowledge of the gods up in Tyria. You wanna know something though, in Guild Wars 1 it was stated that the gods created Tyria and that they brought the forgotten out from the Mists to protect the world they were creating. This was obviously major human error in this story because tyria has been around much longer than the gods, and forgotten were here when the dragons first awoke. So when it comes to lore, everything must be taken with a tiny grain of salt. Things aren’t as straight forward as they were in the first game.

Here’s the issue about Zhaitan, it’s obvious that he was meant to be massive, like make a mountain tremble at his footsteps massive. I mean the art created by ArenaNet artists shows a true and awesome force of nature that seems impossible to deal with, sadly though this is something that would be a major struggle to replicate in a video game. Thus once more limitations weaken the overall original idea.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/archive/a/a3/20120913210240!Dragon_02_concept_art_%28Zhaitan%29.jpg

Well there’s a problem with your ‘standard’ creatures theory, and it is that every creature in Tyria is new from the reckoning of the Elder Dragons. When they went to sleep the only races around were the mursaat, Seer, dwarves, jotun, and forgotten. During their sleep every race that is now fighting them has appeared at some point in time, and right after awakening the dragons have found ways to corrupt them. I mean Kralkatorrik corrupted Charr almost instantly after awakening without a second thought.

Shiro never directly worked for Abaddon, unlike the Lich Lord. Instead Shiro was coerced into his actions by a fortune teller that you later learn was a demonic servant of Abaddon. So, I don’t know where you saw this reference, but it could be said that somehow the fortune teller gave him the power of the Jade Wind, but up to this point in time, everything I read has said it was the stolen bounty of Dwayna.