Yep, now every utility type has a stun breaker ^^
I think the forced soldier’s stat set up is kind of a down point. The ability to switch between stat schemes would be nice.
I agree the Minstrel needs more attention, it seems kind of plain and it doesn’t have as flashy visual effects as other legendaries. Maybe some type of after glow type effect would be nice for it. That way you can have something similar to the trailing effect but it won’t overlap.
IDK about the Meteorlogicus since I haven’t seen one, but if it doesn’t have effects then I agree some sort of cloudy or misty trailing effect would work. (Or something else solar system/space related, but twilight already has stars covered.)
…And though you said you didn’t want this in the topic, I do think it’d be nice to have 2 legendaries for each weapon type to give people choices.
B ) There are reasons why Elementalists are being nerfed elsewhere.
In the grand scheme of things, ArenaNet were/are nerfing the Elementalists “survivability” as they deem necessary.
i may agree on the rest but don t give anet merits they don t have….
Their balancing is terrible and is destroying the game for Esport sakePretending they even thinked to WWW balance for 1 second is giving them credits they don t deserve…..
Well, I secretly somewhat agree. However, ArenaNet’s intent is to reduce their survivability. Whether the changes are effective is debatable. Work in progress!
From what I’ve been seeing, anet focuses as much or more on nerfing things bunker eles can do besides bunkering as much as nerfing the actual survivability. Which is why other build types are rare.
Yes but even with that guardians do not have the extra in/out of combat mobility that eles do. Which is why their stun breakers also do that. However they also have several other condi cleanses that don’t break stuns (some of the shouts for instance.) All ele condi cleanses are also stun breakers too as well as several other things. And lets not forget some of the awesome things that are said to be happening. Take for instance 20 pts into earth to get stability (that is pretty huge) considering how often you will be able to get stability now. [/quote]
Oh yes, with the other nice things that are happening something definitely has to take a hit. Sure it wouldn’t be the old 30 water 30 arcana thing, but it could be an even worse control resistance monster.
As for the stun breaker change, I had said that it’s better this way for eles over all. I was just pointing out that the individual stun break was not the problem because I often see a person point out a single skill as the problem rather than the fact that they’re all in the same skill group as being the problem.
I was talking about the boons and extra effects rather than condition removal from cantrips since you were saying an ele cantrip does so much more than other stun breakers. Contemplation will remove a lot of conditions as well as give boons on its own if you want something most similar to cleansing fire.
Ele cantrips only top when they’re used together, otherwise they’re normal.
Well if they introduce more things like fresh air, then I think that helps a bit with the recharge situation. As for blasting staff, yeah, that’s pretty important for staff users, but for it to exist it’d have to be in some line right?
I could see the your concerns resolved if every, or multiple lines had their own staff buffs/synergies, or if the trait was split up and attached to other traits in individual attunement lines (each trait only buffing the aoe size of it’s element as part of the function).
Well a nerf is part of balancing, so it’s still a nerf. It’s just that it was a nerf in the right direction for making things equal. You’re right’ overall the update looks good as a buffing for eles as a whole and reaches towards their goal of equalizing different build options.
My comment about small buffs not making up for were because I can’t see much point in taking LF over an other skill in a non /d build since it’s status as a pseudo stun breaker is weaker than a regular one like signet of air. Point is it won’t have nearly as much utility outside of cantrip as it did before so I feel like it may become one of those meh skills ignored in most situations. Of course I’ll see whether or not that’s the case after the patch I guess.
Which is still quite a hit because that’s 2seconds you could be fighting. Besides, what if they aren’t melee?
I’d want to call it renewing flame or something instead since I don’t want everthing to start with fresh :p
Anyway, it could be pretty decent, but the fire line would still need some buffs to make it worthwhile. The damage on swap trait would make it decent for this line if it got a slight buff since you’d swap to fire, blast something off, go to air and blast skills, back to fire and finish up…
Basically you’d just be using it to get might and pbaoe over and over, possible in conjunction with air attune.
Actually, having said that, I’m not really sure how well that would go, but eh, it could be interesting.
^lightning flash also took a hit though.
^It’s because some people don’t like hammer :p and some others really love axe.
-snip-
Creating clones, stealth, blinding nearby foes, and short term stability don’t count as anything but breaking stuns?
Two boons? Sure that sounds like a lot, but only 6 seconds, it’s a little strong maybe master level, but only regen mattered and that was because of the grandmaster trait. Vigor was already maintainable on it’s own, so extra vigor doesn’t help.
You also have to consider the class already has powerful condition removal, so the high cleansing doesn’t make it as valuable to an ele as it would be to another class (not that other classes don’t have cleansing stun breakers).
If you compare it to other stun breakers of a similar class, guardians, such as save yourselves, stand your ground, contemplation of purity, you’d see it’s fairly in line. Actually, you could compare to any other class if you count this pending update
So yeah,
1.It’s not the stun breaker, but rather that the water line synergized too well and that they were all put into the same line so you could break a lot of stuns repeatedly.
and
2. Your arguement is more centered around not liking mes stun breakers than ele breakers being too good.
The way I see it, this brought the earth line up to a formidable place along side water (which is now more equal since it’s a bit worse) and aracana. Air got a nice bump as well, but I don’t know if it’s up to par; I’ll have to wait and see. Fire still feels like a no touch trait line though, but oh well.
I vote option to see all as human. (or whatever race you want)
Many moons ago I used to use Armour of earth & any random signet, but after getting sick of being immobilised, eventually swapped signet to Cleansing fire as nothing else removes immobilised from Ele` (never once used it for the AoE fire or the removal of conditions).
Has this changed? Both armour of earth & CF only say removes stun, no mention of immobilised states.
If the “leaked notes” are correct, then will we no longer have any way to remove immobilised state?
Immobilization is just another condition. Any condition removal can remove it.
I didn`t think immobilised was considered as a condi, are you sure?
If it was, it has never once been removed when I`ve swapped to water (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave)
Traited or spell usage.That combined with we don`t get a box pop up asking which we`d prefer removed..
I’m nearly certain it is. We can even meet in spvp to test it out if you want.
As for what condition is removed, I’m think it goes in order of what you see on your screen. Although I don’t remember if it goes from left to right or right to left. Probably whatever was applied first. (I wonder if boon stripping works the same way?)
As for the cantrips giving 5sec regen+vigor thing. Really guys, that’s a trait, you have to keep that in consideration.
Boons on stun breakers’ base function, or other nice effects isn’t something special, it’s actually very common. Especially considering that usually means much longer cd, armor of earth being 90 seconds.
Individually the cantrips aren’t OP. It’s just that they were all packed into the same place, so the supporting traits buffed all of the stun breaks rather than just one stun break as you’d see on other professions. In regards to mesmers specifically, sure you only have one stun break that gives a boon, but your nicer stun breaks grant clones, which is similar to granting a boon.
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Kind of yeah. If an enemy specs a lot into crits, then it’s stronger. If they don’t crit at all, then it’s weaker. If they really wanted to punish glass cannons, then they could just made weakness reduce crit chance, or turn a % of crits into regular damage (still proccing traits though).
Most classes with furry have an easy time keeping 50% crit up in their balanced builds though, so this one will probably be a bit better or around equal for all professions imo.
Problem is thieves run glass often, so old weakness is better for them because even low crit builds hurt them easily.
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Given A: Player has a 50% chance to land a critical hit
Given B: Player hits for 1000 and 2000 on a critical
Old Weakness: 50% of Non Critical hits are glancing blows (50% damage)
New Weakness: 25% of all hits are fumbles (50% damage)Old Weakness: w/ out weakness 1000-1000-2000-2000 Total 6000
——————w/ weakness——-500—500—2000-2000 Total 5000New Weakness: w/out weakness 1000-1000-2000-2000 Total 6000
——————-w/ weakness A—-500—1000-2000-2000 Total 5500
——————-w/ weakness B—-1000-1000-2000-1000 Total 5000this is under the assumption that every other hit is a critical and the 25% holds true for the new weakness on 4 hits only 1 fumbles. with all the weakness decreases (most in half or more/taken away) this is a huge hit especially to thieve’s damage mitigation. im willing to bet these are all if not mostly fake patch notes. we cant use stealth in spvp and now we cant use s/d really. :P cmon just take out the thief class and stop insulting our intellegence. ruining this game.
In your old weakness example you halved both of the non crits that’s 100%, not 50%. If the 50% held true then only one would be halved, so the total would be 5500.
Second, with more hits the A and B version for new weakness disappears (of course it’d just be the average of the two anyway.)
With the same givens:
No weakness- Average damage per hit = 1500
Old weakness- normal attacks deal average of 750 damage, critcal hits still deal full 2000 damage. Average damage per hit= 1375
New weakness- all attacks now deal an average of 87.5% normal damage
average damage per hit= 1312.5
As for body shot, I think if they just kept the old duration it would be worthwhile. Vulnerability generally only shines when you’re fighting as a team since it increases ally’s damage as well, but 3 sec isn’t much time for allies to notice and take advantage of it.
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Many moons ago I used to use Armour of earth & any random signet, but after getting sick of being immobilised, eventually swapped signet to Cleansing fire as nothing else removes immobilised from Ele` (never once used it for the AoE fire or the removal of conditions).
Has this changed? Both armour of earth & CF only say removes stun, no mention of immobilised states.
If the “leaked notes” are correct, then will we no longer have any way to remove immobilised state?
Immobilization is just another condition. Any condition removal can remove it.
^ It only hits as much as one strike of lightning whip, not a full lightning whip. But yeah the bursting will be nicer now along with the new grounded adding a bit of innate defense.
I’d have to agree that the small buffs don’t make up for the loss of stun break though. Probably intentional to get people off cantrips.
How about a new signet of elemental power then?
For 5 seconds, nearby foes receive a condition every second based on your attunement:
Fire: Burning (1sec)
Water: Chilled (1sec)
Air: Weakness (1sec)
Earth: Crippled (2sec)
Radius: 240
Or you can go the opposite route and have it give boons to allies instead.
Fire: Retaliation (2sec)
Water: Regeneration (2sec)
Air: Vigor (2sec)
Earth: Protection (1sec)
Radius: 240 or 360
Either lasts 5 sec at 1 application/sec, or 10sec at 1 application/2sec.
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What if someone just had a lot of free time and made these up for a fake leak? That would be pretty lulzy.
Anyway, it looks like some build diversity might actually be coming back.
^“For a cantrip” is also a weak reason. It’s the skill’s effect that reasons the cooldown, not the type. What new effect is that now? Cleanse 3 conditions and short burn on nearby enemies. Practically just Prayer to Kormir with a bit of offense. Not overly strong of a skill on a a class that’s already heavy in condition removal.
Note to everyone- keep in mind that when you see the weakness duration reductions, this is because weakness was changed to a 25% chance for all attacks to fumble, so the duration is being reduced across the board on all professions. This means weakness itself is buffed because it’s going to help protect against things that hit hard now.
And now my pointless opinions/observations.
It seems to me that anet really wants to push conditions builds. They’re trying to make the class mechanic more important, which is kind of nice.
The 10 stacks vuln to body shot was nice, but at only 3 sec is such a short to take advantage of it.
The underwater nerf was kind of expected seeing as chaining evade was easy, but they should have reworked instead of the usually straight nerf. But underwater content across the board is pretty bad.
Also, crouze.3078 is right about how trickery affects steal recharge. It speeds up recharge rather than reducing cooldown. You can test it out yourself in the mists; 30 trickery= 34sec cd.
I believe that cooldown system applies to an Ele regeneration trait when used with a Staff if I can remember.
I can’t find it I will continue the search. Sure it was regeneration? Filtering for that boon doesn’t show it.
And I think it’s very hard for the game to keep track of cooldown on each foe you hit with a condition that others can use but only on your aplications.
This is a little late, but the per foe cooldown mechanic on ele skills exists for shocking aura, frost aura and glyph of elemental power.
I was under the assumption that the Glyph would become instant cast as well.
I really hope this is incomplete. The fire line needs a lot more work.
Regarding cantrips I definitely dislike but am not surprised that they hit the best stun breakers hardest, the counter balance buffs are a little weak imo. The hit on the water grandmaster really hurts, but it’s really just in line with guardians now. The glyph chosen for stun breaking is an odd one. Hopefully it gets some rework to an active effect.
Ov.erall spreading things out stun breakers was nice and weaker builds are definitely picking up some slack, but fire needs some love,
I’m kind of disappointed that my favorite stun breakers are lost, but overall I think it was a good patch for underpowered traits.
I think the biggest hit to cleansing fire&lighting flash was that they were reduced to one purpose, hurting versatility.
LF-No, flashing away with lightning flash to wait out a stun isn’t the same thing as breaking it because that 2sec of gameplay is important, but it should still be okayish, though I would have loved a range increase. The increase in damage is a pretty small difference imo, but it does help ele burst at least.
Cleansing fire- Kind of unsure about this one. I douse it for condition once in a while, but that was only worthwhile because specialized cantrip traits increased it to 4 conditions + regen and vigor. This change really just made it prayer to kormir with aoe burning. I don’t really think it’d be worth taking outside a cantrip build now.
That being said, there’s a lot more to the update than just cantrips, and the idea of spreading out stun breakers is very valuable, so it’s much better this way for eles overall. It’s just a shame that cantrips went from great stun breaking to only decent, as only the highest cds remained stun breakers.
The possible return of gw1 rupt mesmers is interesting.
Look on the bright side. Hammer got a nice speed boost and condition cleansing got quite a bit better.
I really don’t understand why they nerfed axe 1 though.
If you turn into a moa, just use the skills to run away for 10 seconds and resume fighting. Yes, Mesmers are the best dueling class. But guess what? Duels aren’t even important, the game is team based. Only in WvW solo roam will you duel, and solo roaming duels doesn’t really help your world. Clones perfect for hiding in. First of all, you can just call target on the mesmer to tell it apart. Second, you clones only do one thing. They either stand there and attack or rush at you, whatever it is, it’s just one function per clone. It’s not hard to see if one copy is doing something different. If you really can’t tell, just use one of your aoes (thieves do have them) and see which one takes the least damage. Biggest health pool= person. There’s probably more ways to spot mesmers than I posted/know, and certainly a lot more to be said about fighting them. Just check out the mesmer or pvp forums and ask for help if they really give you that much trouble. In the end though, the state of mesmers has rather little to do with people’s opinions on thieves.
I kind of doubt this is a serious thread though, so maybe I shouldn’t have posted… to late now though, already written :p
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Screw you ele’s got mobility, burst, cleansing, healing… Stop trolling
So same things thief has, while thief also has stealth, better mobility and better burst with no cooldowns…
You’re forgetting that it’s a thief, which means everyone wants to play gc by default and glass cannons don’t carry defense, cleansing, healing etc. To be fair they can’t cap in stealth so I don’t really blame them…
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0 fire 10 air 0 earth 30 water 30 arcana
or 0/0/0/30/20 and put the last 20 wherever you like
or just spend 3.5s each time you want to switch and test out what you like best.
You’re better of using runes that fit your build or build types specifically rather than using divinity runes. Divinity runes I’d only use if you switch your build frequently and drastically enough that you can’t find a rune to suit you. Otherwise divinity layout is inferior since there’s always some sort of damage or support type you focus on more than others.
The varients on the weapons are also much stronger. Both versions were cast with the weapons equipped to keep stats equal. No armor or trinkets were equipped for testing. A steady staff was used. Damage listed is non critical hits.
lightning storm- 126 (glyph) vs 162 (hammer)- The glyph version lasts significantly longer, but seems slightly more random and easier to miss with each bolt.
Ice storm- 337 damage + 6 sec bleed (bow) vs 120s + 3sec chill- ice bow’s seems to be the same number of shards but dropped over a much shorter period of time (3seconds rather than 6 seconds), but it’s also a channeled attack.
Firestorm- 271 damage, 9 pulses (greatsword) vs 159 damage, 11 pulses (glyph)- Otherwise they have the same function. Each pulse takes 1 second.
Sandstorm (glyph only)- 11 pulses, one per second, each dealing 116 damage with bleeding/blind in the pattern-blind(3), bleed (2s), bleed (2s) for a total of 4 blinds and 7 bleeds
My suggestions on skill changes below.
Air -Both bad damage & reliability. Increase the radius on each bolt so it’s like ice storm. From there either a damage increase or some small condition on each bolt like 2sec weakness or 1stack of 10sec vuln.
That way it would be the same total direct damage as the ice bow’s icestorm, but with a longer period of time to deal that damage, different condition, and not channeled.
Ice- The glyph’s storm is actually kind of decent, but it drops too slowly to reliably get hits in. Just lower the time it takes for all the shards to fall to make it more similar to ice bow’s storm and you’ll have a strong ability.
Fire – Firestorm seems okayish on the greatsword since it’s fairly spammable, but could be a bit better. Firestorm on the glyph still seems kind of weak. Making it equal to the weapon’s damage and giving it a 1 sec burn every 3rd pulse would make it worthwhile in comparison to sandstorm. It’s main advantage is the 10 limit and large radius, so a burn that big would be a nice feature.
Earth- Seems fine as it is
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The four skills sets argument is pretty weak because fireshield has a longer cd for it’s effect+duration even in comparison to other ele skills, specifically other auras.
Magnetic- reflect proj, lasts 5 sec 30 cd
Frost- 10% damage reduction, chill attacker (2s), lasts 7sec, 40 cd
Shocking- stun attacker (1s), lasts 5 sec, 25sec cd
Fire shield- burn attacker (1s), 1 stack of 10s might a hit, lasts 5 sec, 40cd
The others have much better upkeep times and better effects (Burning and might are already very common on ele anyway).
So for the long cd, I see a few reasons. So my guesses are:
1. As someone else said, the boon on aura traits are factored in because they make a good difference.
2. It’s on the focus, so they want to try to balance the skills.
3. Fire aura from leap finisher and the fire shield skill are the same thing and anet doesn’t want to go to the trouble of splitting the skills.
4? I guess the fire aura would be better on other classes since they have much less burning, so they’re taking sharing into account.
For an ele I’d say sigil of battle is the best. Like you said, we’re constantly swapping so those might stakes will stay up and many eles have decent investment into boon duration as well, letting us have an extra constant 9 or so might stacks. That really helps out with our more defense orient builds.
Of course some weapons and combos can might stack to max on their own, so I guess you should look ahead before going for this one.
Why would you buy a single rune anyway?
Divinity runes are the same bonus for each individual runes. Unlike other runes you don’t get better bonuses for each extra rune. So it’s good as a filler rune for extra slots if you don’t care for some of the later rune bonuses. Some people also just can’t afford all 6 at once :p
I don’t think thief buffs should focus on stealth buffs. They rely too much on it already.
This isn’t so much a buff as a change. If stealth is visible it needs something to make it truly defensive or it’s useless.
Huh? I didn’t see anything about being visible in your first post. I thought you just wanted a version stealth that’s the same but makes things glance as well.
If you mean a stealth that’s visible to enemies in the way you currently see your own stealthed character but makes incoming blows glance, then yes I’m all for that sort of thing, I’d actually been thinking of something similar. Of course that sort of update would have to be carefully tested for the right % glancing before being implemented because stealth thieves are actually very tanky already. This version would also allow thieves to cap while stealthed of course.
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I don’t think thief buffs should focus on stealth buffs. They rely too much on it already.
Or rather (perhaps more accurate), I simply don’t think balance devs (or most people) consider stealth an area thief needs any buffs in.
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It depends on your build of course, specifically on how much power and critical damage you carry, so in a way yes, there is a threshold.
For example, lets say you have 50critical damage, meaning your crits do 200% damage. To increase dps by 1% at 50 crit damage, you either need 1% more crit chance, which is 21 precision, or power equal to 1% of your current power. So if you don’t use might stacks (since they add power), power> precision when power is less than 2100, and precision>power when power is over 2100. Again, this is at 50 crit damage, so you’d have to do some simple number crunching at different amounts.
I mean come on people, sure stealth thieves are annoying but look at this… So to sum it up thieves can either be constantly stealth annoyances, that cant do much but troll …
The answer is in the question. It’s not because thieves are strong, it’s because they’re annoying. Other classes don’t annoy and/or frustrate other players as much as thieves do.
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The win/lose thing can be rather situational. If he is or you are defending something and you run away, then yes you lost because he achieves his goal. But if you’re attacking a person and you run away you didn’t lose, it’s more of a stalemate (because no one died). In either case it’s less of a loss than dying because you’re not giving loot, repairing and having to run back, or in the case of pvp (where thieves are weak anyway) you’re not giving the enemy team points for your death.
Sure the thief didn’t win, but he’s still better off than dead and the player he fought against often receives no reward, so in his perspective he didn’t ‘win’.
You also have to remember that most people don’t run away for good. They just run out, lose aggro for hp to heal to reset the fight and try again in order to hold something up or harass players.
All of this doesn’t necessarily apply just to thieves btw, they just happen to be the best at doing it.
In the end though, you should probably be trying to do something, so them running is good; just not as good as them dying.
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Hmm so what do you guys think would be better for pve ele to go along with sigil of battle?
Currently I’m using battle and bloodlust, but I’m not sure what to switch to when bloodlust is charged. I’m thinking either force or stamina (for more EA rolls). Restoration could possibly fit in there as well, but the healing seems kind of low.
Ele is considered a very powerful class in PvP and WvW. Like the Ranger, our strengths in PvP formats don’t translate well to PvE, and so the Ele is sorta lackluster in PvE with no hopes of getting buffed in the near futute.
Which is why I think anet should really stick to using those (PvP) splits. I don’t get why they use them so sparingly. The only thing I see stopping them is WvW and some some silly notion of making the transition from PvE to PvP smoother.
Besides, though they’re strong in pvp, it seems that their only viable builds revolve around bulky builds specced heavily into water and arcana. (but many classes suffer from this lack of diversity I guess)
Ele is actually medium in terms of mobility :p So I guess that means its in the right place for the jack of all trades goal?
3. Some people want to have BIS gear. They think they can’t live without it. In other games that may be true, but in Guild Wars 2. it’s not. If you join a speed run group, they may want you to have the BIS gear. If you join a casual dungeon group, they won’t. No one I know requires a gear check. You can run a dungeon in greens. The ONLY grindy bit in this game is Fractals of the Mists and you can still play the content without ever getting TO the grindy bits. Basically if you don’t care about doing the highest difficulty levels of FoTM you won’t care. Everything else you can do with rares, which are easy to acquire.
Just for the record though, maximum strength gear is still fairly easy to get. It’s cosmetics you have to grind for.
Celebrating the Dragon Festival by going on a crazed slaughter of everything in the world is a hilarious perversion of our major motive.
Ahahahaha. That’s just too great. I guess it would have made more sense if they only dropped from dragon minions huh?
I think the idea was that some rich people would want to have the wings right away and buy up all the taffy, thus sinking some gold through fees while also spreading their money a bit as the poorer people sold their taffy. Of course that didn’t happen but I’m just guessing anyway. Who knows, maybe they just thought taffy would end up like candy corn so the 100k candies wouldn’t be that expensive anyway.
Even with a gold sink as the purpose, they could have still had multiple levels of betting. The odds of winning would be are same and making the rewards equally proportional wouldn’t have been a problem either.
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Hey, Anet, I didn’t buy a collectors edition, but I did buy gems and received the free holographic pets. Does that mean I get the stuff from the collectors edition too now. I think that’s really messed up if I don’t.
He’s not asking for gems he didn’t buy. He’s asking for the extra gift that was given because he too supported the game via extra purchases.