Guild Wars 2

So… Since Bountiful Power now exists as an Arcana Trait, and so far, it’s the only 3rd tree that has a damage modifier….

Does that mean PvE Ele will now run around with Elemental Attunement? That’s really crazy. Now you can spec for damage and provide AoE Protection.

I see someone’s playing Necro today.

Supreme.3164:

I’m do ask myself what we will lose in return for this change, if they touch arcane precision…I’ll go Ape kitten on the forums..I swear, like arcane precision is off limit.

Half the reason to go arcana is for that minor trait alone, now my fears are rising…

lol

I don’t understand why everyone’s getting their kicks making fun of the OP. You guys really can be pretty mean sometimes.

To the OP: don’t post about stuff like that here. You won’t get much sympathy, just trolling. There’s even a running joke that occasionally pops up about playing ‘Bingo’ with general complaints from random players who come to this subforum to talk about stuff, only to be made fun of by the community that sits around posting here. Honestly if you have any problems, this is probably the last place on the whole GW2 forums you ever want to post them in.

Yes ANet, please do this T_T

Raif.9507:

Neko.9021:

Camping a single attunement already works in PvE. Stay in Fire Attunement and spam Lava Font to do massive AoE damage.

The talk against it is mainly how boring it is to some people, but in terms of how well it works in PvE, it’s already very good.

No one is saying it isn’t effective at this time, just that we (whoever agrees with my PoV) believe that it shouldn’t be promoted or effective.

I was inferring that based upon the OP’s posts and topic that the OP was implying that Element-Camping didn’t work or wasn’t effective, and I was stating that it already is. I mean, if someone posted saying “Elementalists that try to use all 4 attunements need more specs and potential”, my natural response would be to say that such a playstyle already exists in the game and is good.

I will admit that if the OP was talking about WvW or PvP then the OP would be a bit more right. However, since the OP didn’t specify a game mode in their original post (which for some reason no one seems to do…), I made the assumption that it was a PvE post, since that seems to be the default for posts like this.

If you find Ele to be weak or uninteresting, don’t play it. The world has enough Eles as is. Just play what you think is fun or strong.

Even if Eles are very good, if you were motivated enough to go out onto the forums and complain about how weak they are, chances are, you will not enjoy the class.

Camping a single attunement already works in PvE. Stay in Fire Attunement and spam Lava Font to do massive AoE damage.

The talk against it is mainly how boring it is to some people, but in terms of how well it works in PvE, it’s already very good.

A few build thoughts:

-If you’re going Scepter/Focus, you need the Hammer with it for DPS, especially for fractals (arguably, for stuff like AC, it might actually be possible to get by entirely with just Ice Bow and Scepter Burst, lol). But for fights that are long, Scepter DPS is pretty bad, and that’s where Lightning Hammer comes in.
-If you want survivability and DPS, maybe try a “meta” build but with full Soldier Gear on. Over time, as you get more comfortable, switch a piece of Soldier Gear into Berserker Gear, until you’re finally on fully Berserker Gear. In my opinion, this is probably the most effective way to wean someone onto a full Berserker Build that is used to more tanky builds.
-The big secret to survivability for players trying to play in glassy gear when going up against content that they’re not comfortable with is changing their utilities. Slotting skills like Arcane Shield, Mist Form, and Ether Renewal if you want a bit more defense or healing can go a long way, while still letting you keep a strong DPS setup in your traits, gear, and weapons. Also, Glyph of Storms in Earth provides 10 seconds of Blindness in an area, helping mitigate damage for 10 seconds. It’s very strong, and you should consider it any build. It’s not uncommon that someone might run a 6/6/2/0/0 build but have an Arcane Shield instead of a Signet of Fire for extra blocks, just in case.
-Renewing Stamina is a godly trait if you need more dodges, and should be the first thing you get if you need more defenses (such as switching a 6/6/2/0/0 build into a 6/6/0/0/2 build, which I’ll run a lot on encounters where I feel I need more defenses). Sigil of Energy is also really strong and provides an extra dodge when you change attunements (9 second ICD).
-If you really want to run a hybrid-support build, note that the build will still do much, much less damage than a full DPS build. The whole point of the GW2 build system is to force players to make choices – that’s why DPS builds do more damage than hybrid. I still think that you’ll find that, if you end up doing Fractal 40 and 50 dailies, doing more DPS is going to be better in the end and actually make the content easier. Still, if what you desire is not to complete the run quickly, but to just sort of casually move along, maybe consider something like this? : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAodhMMqe20wnBd0AOAGxaQMQcEIA0BLeFWCA-TxxHwA9U+N4BBoZ/Bv6JAcCB0r+DTlgkBIfLA-e [The way this build plays is similar to any D/F PvE build. You mostly autoattack with the Lightning Whip – the Air Attunement Autoattack. You switch to the other attunements for utility and blast finishers as needed, then switch right back into Air Attunement for more autoattacking with Lightning Whip. Your main defensive stuff is Stone Flesh in Earth 5 and Swirling Winds in Air 4.] That sort of build does a lot less damage than a full DPS build, but at least the support stuff is somewhat ok. You do large AoE heals and the Protection on Earth attunement is really strong, though all of that comes at the cost of lots of DPS. But that’s what I’d say, as far as “hybrid” builds go.

If you want to talk more about this sort of stuff, you’re free to talk to me in-game. I’m busy today but this weekend I should be around a bit.

sorrychief.2563:

some serious lrn2read issues going on

OP didn’t ask for good builds
OP didn’t even ask for zerk builds

Okay, here are some viable pve builds then

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFALAA-TRgLAAgOAA-e

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAIAA-TRgLAAgOAA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAGAA-TRgLAAgOAA-e

It’s pretty funny, actually. I believe that better players have been pushing the term “viable” when talking about GW2 PvE builds in the hope of having good builds be taken seriously as something “top tier” (in a game, mind you, where anything really works).

What actually happened is the opposite – since the term “viable” really just means “capable of working”, players have latched onto the term and equate the worst possible builds with actually good builds. The end result, it seems, is players making strange wacky hybrid builds like the OP which fail in almost every regard.

It’s time we stopped using the term “viable” when talking about PvE builds, because it is an almost pointless conversation. A single mainhand weaon with no traits or gear is “viable”. Let’s use the terms that we really mean – good and bad. Once we start talking about whether builds are good or bad, we can’t hide behind the fact that “we can complete the content with this, so it’s viable”. Well yes, that’s great. But if that was your standard, then why even bother coming and asking for advice? Especially if you don’t want to actually receive advice, but simply affirmation of what you already believe in?

The build is bad. Especially if your target gameplay is PUGing Fractals. Run Staff or D/F. Yes, you can run healing Scepter build or whatever, but it’ll be bad. If that hurts your feelings, please don’t take it personally. I’m just telling it as a matter of fact, not to disparage on your personal character. You are free to run whatever build you want, really, I promise. I won’t log into your account and delete your character for running a build I think is bad. I’m just saying – as a build that tries to either deal damage or support, it fails at both. Hell, if I was trying to make some heavy, non-DPS oriented “support” build, I might as well run 4 Arcana so I can get Elemental Attunement and give my party AoE Boons. At least if you ran that, there’d be some actual support. At least then I’d understand where you’re coming from. But running 6 in Water for Aquatic Benevolence in Soldier Gear with no Healing Power or Arcana Traits is also really poor support, by any standard. The build is thus just really, really bad.

And I think that the proper response, when someone comes asking for build advice, is to be honest and offer good build advice.

I think all the heals have a place, and really, it depends on the situation. For max utility, Arcane Brilliance is great because you can use the blast finisher in a Fire Field to get more Might. Also, if you hit lots of targets, it becomes a sizable heal as well!

Ether Renewal is good if you want a low cooldown and large heal. It’s also good if you want more condi removal. The downside is that channeling it keeps you from doing DPS while using it.

The Glyph Heal is a decent burst heal and you can cast it in Air Attunement for Swiftness. To be honest though, the cast time is still kinda long, to the point where I think Arcane Brilliance and Ether Renewal kinda outclass it, but I know some people like it a lot.

The Signet Heal honestly feels underwhelming to me, but I suspect if you’re taking a lot of little damage from Retal or something, it probably provides pretty good overall sustain without necessarily taking away from your DPS. I’m not totally sure on this point, however – I honestly don’t use the Signet Heal in PvE much, and don’t know if it really does give enough healing in the theoretical situations where it should win out. The main thing about the Signet Heal is that if you’re a Cele Ele in PvP, it provides massive sustain without you needing to spend time casting your healing skill, making it really really strong.

If you wanna run Melee Ele, try Dagger Focus Ele!

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAodnMISTD2yAWPAfEGQAwCHAqAHgR3AxpgMQNE-TxRBABXp8jm9HwTPRenAAAeQAUq+jZKBFDgeA-e

Here’s Zelyhn’s Guide to the Ele for it:
http://dulfy.net/2014/07/11/gw2-elementalist-pve-class-guide-by-haviz-and-zelyhn/

And here’s the Metabattle guide for it:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_D/F_Elementalist

Is the build viable? Of course!

Is the build good? No. It’s terrible.

What’s really baffling is that the build is poor in almost every way. It’s going to do bad damage, AND it has poor support. If you were gonna be a tanky support Ele, you would be better off running Arcana and granting Regeneration + Protection. If you want damage, that full Soldier gear plus investment into Water without taking stuff Piercing Shards is really really holding you back.

Also, you’re presumably relying on Lightning Hammer for damage, but don’t have Conjurerer.

But the build is viable, sure. In fact, the following build is viable for completing PvE content: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAYmMICA-TRgLAAgOAA-e

That’s it. That’s how low the bar is for ‘viable’. And I wish people stopped using that term for referring to PvE Content. It is VERY HARD to create a non-viable build for PvE.

The question you really want to ask is if the build is good. And the answer is a resounding no.

Now, if I were to suggest good builds, I think that the following are good builds for doing PvE content:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_Staff
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_S/F_LH
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_D/F

By the way, in my personal opinion, I think that the D/F build is probably the best ‘hybrid’ sort of build people are probably looking for that has a lot of personal defensive utility as well as good damage. The Staff build does way more damage but can be way harder to play in some cases and way easier to play in some other cases. The S/F LH build is highly useful for its high damage, constant blast finishers, and constant blinds, but trying to PUG with a Lightning Hammer build is pretty annoying since people can pick up your other hammer, plus if you have to stop using the Hammer or go down, your DPS becomes terrible since you rely on the Scepter for damage.

Overall, I hope that’s somewhat useful information for you.

I do believe that Rangers wanting more support has been a pretty constant theme of requests for the class. I think that’s what the new Druid specialization is supposed to unlock for the class.

It’s a known bug. Not necessarily the whole “reflecting a clone-creating attack creates a clone for the reflector”. That seems intentional, actually. But the fact that you can reflect Mirror Blade when its tooltip clearly says “Unblockable” is a bug.

Dizzle.5289:

Hmmm! Okies then I’ll carry a D/D and staff then then I can learn those both while lvling and worry about others when I hit 80! Thnx for all the Info!

The actual correct answer.

Mainhand Dagger is so good for the ease and speed at which you apply cleave damage. You can level through most of PvE spamming Air 1 on Mainhand Dagger.

PvE Ele isn’t hard despite what people might tell you, really. I’ll add to what others have said here. Here, I’ve written a new guide for each good weapon combo:

-Mainhand Dagger (imo best to level with because of quick and easy damage)
1. Attune to Air
2. Spam Air 1

-Staff (best damage as long as enemies sit in Lava Font, which they often do in PvE)
1. Attune to Fire
2. Spam Fire 2 and Fire 1

-Scepter
1. Slot in Lightning Hammer (take Conjurerer in Fire Magic if you can)
2. Spam Lightning Hammer 1

And that’s how to do high damage with each weapon combo easy!

I strongly believe D/D is the best PvE leveling set. Quick cleave damage and access to mobility and swiftness on the offhand make it ideal for open world content.

Electric Discharge (the trait that casts Lightning Strike when attuning to Air) doesn’t proc out of combat. I don’t understand how you could possibly even think this.

The sub-80 open world is easy enough that you should be able to just kill stuff at your level in full damage gear and traits. There’s really no reason to bunker up in leveling open world PvE content at all.

Full DPS build is always the best way to level. Berserker plus damage traits.

GW2 is actually surprising in just how helpful it’s dungeon-running community is. There are so many great resources for players that want help. There’s a lot of bad to be said about the game, but its PvE community is not one of them.

ANet abandoned dungeons a long time ago. Their focus is all about Open World PvE (with sPvP trailing far away second).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I hate it when I do AC with random players, only to find out that we are not doing enough collective power as a group to destroy the burrows in time. Either they have too little offense in their build, or their survivability is so poor, that they are eating dirt in mere seconds. I don’t even think it’s a case of them being bad players. They just happen to have a build that does not maximize damage enough for them to finish the dungeon.

I consider myself a pretty average-skilled player, and I haven’t had issues with this encounter since the AC revamp. Honestly, if you are consistently having issues with this encounter, it’s probably at least partially your fault.

ResJudicator.7916:

Few things wrong with OP’s argument:

(1) Math is off. Adding 300 toughness on a celestial D/D build means you take roughly 11% less damage than a D/D build without the bonus 300 toughness. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

(2) Current “tanky” ele builds only take 10 in earth, not 30. So you’re making up a stat loss that doesn’t even exist.

(3) You’re also forgetting about the synergy between elemental shielding and the increased access to auras.

Not to mention that gear and amulets are supposed to be buffed to compensate for the loss of stats, as I posted earlier.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Impact-on-PVP-with-no-stats-from-traits/first#post5004601

“The amulets will be rebalanced to compensate for the loss of stats originally gained from trait lines.

This is probably as good of a place as any to mention that we’ll also be using this opportunity to rebalance PvP’s celestial amulet to be slightly less effective. We’re probably looking at a 10%~ decrease in overall stats, but this number can change as we draw closer to releasing the core specialization changes."

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-one-a-primer/

“Base attribute points on equipment will be increased so that all the gear in the game will give higher stats than it did before. This should account for most of the missing points.”

As someone who’s played quite a bit of D&D (3rd, 4th, 5th), let me try to help you out:

The Elementalist actually is very much closer to a Striker+Leader. This is very intentional. Please look to the description of the class:

“Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”

The Elementalist’s main abilities are its abilities to deal damage and buff itself and allies, which are aspects of a Striker and Leader respectively. The buffs come from Water’s healing and the boons that come from attuning to the 4 attunements, while the damage comes from the ability to combine those attunements for lots of damage.

To be quite honest, it was your fault for assuming the Elementalist is ‘the typical mage’. It is not. Neither flavorfully, nor mechanically. This is a mistake that many players seem to repeat when coming to GW2 without bothering to research the classes. Of the three spellcasters – Elementalists, Mesmers, and Necromancers – the Mesmer and Necro are far more Control-oriented than the Elementalist is. Not to say that the Elementalist does’t have some great control abilities (Shocking Aura, Updraft, Gale, and Static Field are all amazing). But it’s very much less a part of the class’ design than the other two scholar classes.

The Necromancer focuses on draining their opponents away with debuffs, while the Mesmer controls their opponents through trickery and deception. I actually think that the Mesmer probably comes the closest to a D&D styled Wizard that focused on control-type spells. The Necromancer is a great PvP controller with its various conditions (Fear, Immobilize, Cripple, Chill), and is honestly better than the Mesmer at it in practice at the ‘control’ role because its ability to stay in the fight better.

Overall, remember that the ‘mage’ means different things in different games, and for GW2, the archetype of mage is very much split between the three scholars, each representing their own distinct take on the concept. The Elementalist, in its design and flavor, is usually a Striker, Leader, Leader+Striker, or Striker+Leader. The fact that it has Control spells is simply due to the fact that all classes have a little bit of Damage, Support, and Control in their design, to ensure that classes can fill any role as needed. If you’re looking to push the Control line of the Elementalist, I think when Tempest Defense is moved to Master Tier in the update, a build which uses that and auras might be an Ele-styled control build.

It’s honestly pretty surreal to me. The only other game type I’ve played where people complained about this was table top RPGs. In games like Dungeons & Dragons or Pathfinder, there’s this huge divide between min-maxers and people who only want to roleplay. It’s somewhat understandable there, I suppose. But for video games, I was surprised to see GW2 have nearly the same sorts of complaints (though unlike table top roleplaying games, it’s not as if people are complaining to instead roleplay rather than optimize). GW2 is truly unique in this regard. I don’t see people complain about min-maxing in VIDEO games, except in GW2.

I’m tempted to say that the type of people who would like D&D back in the day are the sort who play GW2. And I really do mean the whole group of players that enjoy D&D, which is a very diverse group of players who range from roleplay-immersion loving to number-crunching min-maxer sorts.

Going off on a bit of a tangent, GW2 really does appeal to me in many of the ways D&D did. Whenever I miss my days of leading D&D groups, I’ll boot up GW2 and while the experience is different, there’s something about it that resonates with me in a similar manner. Maybe it’s the way that it’s got this huge capacity for creativity in something that’s still ultimately pretty casual.

Glyph of Storms, Glyph of Elemental Power, and Glyph of Elementals are all really strong in PvE, at the very least.

… is the instant burst of Scepter Fresh Air Eles in sPvP.

Listen, I understand why Air Magic has been… changed, in this manner. I see where the the devs are coming from. While Scepter Fresh Air Eles aren’t particularly meta in sPvP, the ability of such an Ele to instantaneously deal damage is very strong, and if done correctly, lacks much counterplay.

So the devs nerfed the damage in Air Magic. No more Bolt to the Heart + Air Training + Fresh Air.

The problem is you guys have totally wrecked the damage for all Eles investing in Air and hoping to use Air for damage.

And the damage isn’t even a problem! If you actually had a chance to mitigate or heal some of that damage, you wouldn’t always get completely wrecked each time a Scepter Fresh Air Ele managed to get a full combo off on you.

The problem is the speed at which Scepter Fresh Air Eles deal damage in sPvP. It’s instant. Combined with double-proccing sigils, the instant damage was too much.

But rather than nerf all damage for Eles, why not consider the alternative – remove the uncounterable aspect of Lightning Strike. Give it a slight pause so that a player has an opportunity to dodge before getting hit. The cast can be instant, but a telegraph – let’s say a lightning cloud – could appear above the player to indicate that damage is about to come.

This would be a great way to reduce the uncounterable, instant aspect of Scepter Fresh Air Ele burst in sPvP, without completely derailing damage-oriented Eles that want to invest in what should otherwise be a damage-oriented tree.

PvP Amulets are predicted to be nerfed by 10% in PvP

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Impact-on-PVP-with-no-stats-from-traits/first#post5004601

The class has the advantage of always having all those skills. I think that after letting them take advantage of all of them all the time, they want to see what happens when you push the class to more dedicated roles instead.

Pretty sure dungeons are to be abandoned more or less forever. They don’t consider the content worth making anymore.

Xillllix.3485:

Neko.9021:

Elemental Attunement is one of the most powerful traits in the game. I can totally understand why they shifted it to GM Tier.

Considering that the elementalist is the squishiest class and cannot survive without the protection and regen given by elemental attunement we have all the reason to contest the new nerf, that will make us lose our Arcane GM trait in order to keep our survivability. It is a massive nerf. I can see why the balance guy was shy of revealing it, it is a huge class-breaking mistake.

It also makes the bonus of having 3 full trait lines not a bonus at all.

Eles are getting a new minor Earth trait – Geomancer’s Defense – which gives 20% damage mitigation against foes within 600 units. I don’t think they misunderstand at all. They’re just trying to push different trait lines and get us out of always relying on Arcana for everything.

Quin Marino.6384:

Let’s compare the D/F build to the new phalanx warrior. After this update, D/F will only have somewhere around 75-85% of the damage that warrior will have (if anyone has any better math on this, please feel free to correct me.) D/F generates probably 12-15 stacks of might on average, phalanx warrior generates 25 might stacks average. Additionally, phalanx warrior gives the team 320 power, 170 condition damage, 170 precision, and 170 ferocity. Phalanx warrior also has 7k or something more hp and more armor. The D/F ele gives 100% fury uptime whereas warrior only gives 33% fury uptime. Soooooo basically for the most part d/f eles will be squisher versions of warriors with less damage and less party support. But they’ll have swirling winds, so there’s that I guess.

I very much believe this is intentional. I think that ANet wants to push Warrior support (making Shout Heals and Phalanx Strength much stronger builds in the PvP and PvE game modes respectively) and this is their way of doing it. They want Ele to either be full dps or a healing sort of role. I think they’re trying to gently nudge Ele out of the offensive-support role – it’s something they see that belongs more to Warriors than to Eles. Mind you, when you look at the game as a whole (including PvE, WvW, and PvP), what with the rise of Cele Ele in PvP, I think I can understand why they are taking this stance.

Elemental Attunement is one of the most powerful traits in the game. I can totally understand why they shifted it to GM Tier.

I’ve been following/playing Heroes of the Storm and I love it!

(And it’s honestly way more fun to watch than sPvP. GW2 PvP got no chance compared to HotS).

You should uninstall the game and leave to go get some perspective. Such anger over a video game is unhealthy.

I think what our friend is trying to get at is that D/F Ele either comes out even or only slightly nerfed, while Staff Ele simply got way more buffed. This just makes it harder to justify using D/F in relation to the existence of Fire Staff builds, which is fine if you just used D/F for the fun of it. But the D/F build in the future relative to its past self, with the information we have, isn’t that far behind.

Yes pls.

There is a DPS loss. The loss of Bolt to the Heart is the biggest one. In fact that trait’s placement will widen the gap between Fresh Air and Staff builds in PvE. But it’s not like Fresh Air Ele got absolutely nothing. Bountiful Power and Aquamancer’s Training (assuming it’s kept as 10%) are very strong.

Yes, it is being nerfed.

Aquamancer’s Training and Bountiful Power are still good damage multipliers.

For PvE Ele, it looks like Fire, Air, and Water will be the new traits to look at. You can still take Aeromancer’s Training (10% crit damage), Piercing Shards (more damage to vulnerable foes and your vuln lasts longer), Aquamancer’s Training (deal more damage above the health threshhold) and Bountiful Power. And now Fresh Air Ele can benefit and have Healing Ripple and Soothing Mist while still aiming for full DPS. Overall, seems like a quality of life buff

1 second seems really low – is that just speculation or do you have a source?

As the new patch rolls out, I think this is going to be one of the more common trait combinations, that takes two Adept Major traits from Earth and Water, along with an Earth Minor Trait, and helps create a lot of damage reduction.

A review:

• Soothing Ice: Gain regeneration and Frost Aura when you are struck by a critical hit. (Unknown CD and duration – if someone does know, that’d be great!)
• Elemental Shielding: Gain protection when applying an aura to yourself or an ally. (3 seconds, no ICD)
• Geomancer’s Defense: You take 20% less damage from foes within 600 units.

Of these:

• Protection reduces damage by 33%
• Frost Aura reduces damage by 10%
• Geomancer’s Defense reduces damage by 20%

That’s a potential of 63% damage reduction!

I think Ele is still going to have quite a bit of survivability. On a standard D/D Build, you could have:

• Geomancer’s Defense – 20% less damage while within 600 range (Earth Minor)
• Elemental Shielding – Prot on Aura (Earth Major)
• Soothing Ice – Gain Regen and Frost Aura when you are critically hit (Water Major)
• Cleansing Wave – Cleanse Condi on Water Attune (Water Major)
• Cleansing Water- Cleanse Condi when gaining Regen (Water Major)
• Elemental Contingency – Retal/Fury/Protection/Vigor when hit in Fire/Air/Earth/Water (Arcana Major)

• Evasive Arcana!

and

• Soothing Mist and Healing Ripple of course