I also keep crashing like every 10 minutes.
At first, I thought it was because I changed some setting on my Graphics-card (the ones that were suggested by ANet to improve FPS) and updated the Drivers for my Graphics-card as well, since it didn’t happen once before.
But seeing that many other ppl have the same Problem since the last Patch, I’m not sure anymore why it keeps crahsing. I’m gonna reset all the Graphics-Options now and see what happens.
definitely, the game though needs a bit more variety before this draft-mode could be interesting.
As now I think of possibly Moa Morph to ban and shadow-refuge or stand your ground as utilities.But a mode like mine or Phanta’s Idea could also force this variety, which is what I intended with it.
I think that too. But still there are many utilities which are completely not used, not even in PvE or WvW. I want to see this happen first.
Sure, but who knows how long it’ll take ANet to accomplish that?
definitely, the game though needs a bit more variety before this draft-mode could be interesting.
As now I think of possibly Moa Morph to ban and shadow-refuge or stand your ground as utilities.
But a mode like mine or Phanta’s Idea could also force this variety, which is what I intended with it.
I’ve tried a bit of pretty much everything and I can say without a doubt that Warrior tops the difficulty charts. It feels like a design from an early beta of the game that never saw a revamp. Yes, it’s simplistic, but being simple is a bad thing in PvP, it makes one predictable. The Warrior’s animations are very slow and dramatic, everyone and their mother knows what to expect after seeing one once or twice.
There’s really no escape hatches on the class. You can trait and use Melandru’s to make it a little more bearable but overall you get one Endure, one poor man’s condi cleanse and lastly your Shield #5 if you have it, and once those are spent it’s more or less good game. No real access to Vigor either so I hope you used your two dodges properly.
Well, you talk about the class being difficult, because it’s underpowered and I don’t think that’s wise, because balance can change very fast (okay, in ANets case definitely not very fast, but it can).
When I say that for example the Teldo-Engi is hard to play, I don’t say because it’s weak, but because it has many options that can be used in various different ways, it has some intricate tricks that require timing and is overall very flexible.
Add a bit of DPS on top of the War and/or a bit of sustain so it’s a decent class to play and it really becomes a very simple class, at least if you play the more Common builds. It has very limited Options and a straight-forward purpose: to spike sth. down and dmg downed Players.
Besides, ppl seem to forget that the Mesmer and every other class as well, has another Option to get Quickness (which is even AoE), with the Centaur-Runes.
You mean Swiftness? Cos quickness would be sort of overpowered.
yepp, i always mess up the terminology of the 2. ^^
I can crush a Phantasm Mesmer with my Sword/Dagger Thief. Cake.
While an incredibly well played s/d thief does have a chance of beating a phantasm mesmer, I highly doubt that one as arrogant as you could do it effectively.
OOOOOOOOOOH SNAP! ^^’
Srsly though: A good S/D-Thief can probably beat everything atm, but I think that certain Phantasm-Builds do have a decent chance against it. Certainly a better chance than Shatters, cuz you probably won’t catch the S/D-Thief with an Immobilize-based burst. :P
Immobilize based burst? Like a sword 2 coupled with the spam of 3 iduelists?
Nope, I was comparing how a Shatter-Mesmer would do against an S/D-thief compared to a Phantasm-Mesmer and I think a Phantasm would do better, because the S/D-Thief has such an easy time escaping shatterspikes. And with the Phantasm-Mesmer having much better sustained-DPS, I guess it would do better.
I wonder why Shatter-Mesmers atm don’t use the Pistol anymore anyways; just add the Trait for Fury on your Phantasms (the cloak or 8s Blurred Frenzy are decent, but not crucial) and while the focus-pull is amazing, the Pistol-Stun is good as well and you can just add tons of ranged sustained DMG in between spikes with the Duelist. Especially if you are in a Teamfight and stay at Range with GS, an additional Duelst placed on a hard to reach place can simply add tons of DPS.
Besides, ppl seem to forget that the Mesmer and every other class as well, has another Option to get Quickness (which is even AoE), with the Centaur-Runes.
I can crush a Phantasm Mesmer with my Sword/Dagger Thief. Cake.
While an incredibly well played s/d thief does have a chance of beating a phantasm mesmer, I highly doubt that one as arrogant as you could do it effectively.
OOOOOOOOOOH SNAP! ^^’
Srsly though: A good S/D-Thief can probably beat everything atm, but I think that certain Phantasm-Builds do have a decent chance against it. Certainly a better chance than Shatters, cuz you probably won’t catch the S/D-Thief with an Immobilize-based burst. :P
This isn’t League of Legends.
Of course it’s not, it’s just an Idea to force a little bit of diversity in maybe some Fun Tournaments or as an alternative Game-Mode for Custom Arenas.
I mean, there are Tournaments with a Team of 5 of 1 Class only, which just goes like 10 steps too far in terms of forcing Teams to play sth. different, but this Game-Mode combines strategic Aspects of a Banning-Pick Mode with the excitement of constantly being able to see new Builds and what Top-Teams can come up with on the Spot. It forces them to prepare new builds and strategies and Experiment.
Really, we’ll never see 80% of the Players in Top-Teams running anything else but their Favourite Builds in the forseeable future, so why not by pure evil and simply force them to? ^^’
Warrior is easy to play and it beats nearly every class in a 1v1 when playing it right, but that is true for nearly every class. If you’re a skilled player you win if your build is good.
Engineer is hardest imo. Ranger second hardest.
Warriors win 1v1’s? – where, how, when?
what u are suggesting is a total rebuilding of the game, just forget it, it will never happen.
Why?
Just throw it out there, they don’t need to balance the game around it, but just let us try stuff out for the odd possibility that it works out phenomenally and warrants further balancing. Just let us take our PvP-chars with all the skills, traits, runes etc. into the Map and change the Buffs so they give Points or Stat-Boosts and then just let us play with it.
Maybe it works out well and ANet sees that it’s a good Game-Mode that needs no balancing that would conflict with the balancing of the Conquest-Mode or maybe it could be solved with simple adjustments to the Map.
Why not give it a try?
They don’t need to force it to work if it wasn’t meant to be, but maybe the Gods are gracious and everything falls in place, all the Planets aline etc. and it simply works! ^^’
My Edit was too late. ^^’
Take those Examples:
Team Paradigm: Teldo actually is an Engineer, even in real Life he walks around with a Bomb-k….. nevermind. His role as an offensive Roamer is extremely crucial for the Team-Strategy, does TP really want him to be forced to play sth. else?
The Civilized Gentlemen: They run two Eles atm. wouldn’t it be a difficult choice to choose between 2 Eles and 1 Guard?
Also, you could totally Mindgame sm1 by banning Mesmer and then Picking two Mesmer or sth. and run circles around them with dual-Portal vs. none.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
I think Guardian would be the banning-choice of the year by a 99% rate.
Likely so, but you can pick one before the ban and it creates a nice tension between the obvious Choice and the fact that a lot of Players have one Class they are really comfortable with and that is important for the Team.
Take those Examples:
Team Paradigm: Teldo actually is an Engineer, even in real Life he walks around with a Bomb-k….. nevermind. ^^’
The Civilized Gentlemen: They run two Eles atm. wouldn’t it be a difficult choice to choose between 2 Eles and 1 Guard?
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
Atm. with every Tournament I see, I always am a bit disappointed to not see more new and exciting builds and strategies, thats why I thought about a Game-Mode that would encourage this. It’s just an Idea for maybe some Tournaments and maybe even a Game-Mode for Custom Arenas and I think it could be pretty cool.
The Mode is inspired by MOBA’s and it has a phase before the Game starts, where classes can be picked and banned (maybe even Skills, Weapon-Sets etc., but lets start a bit smaller).
First-Picking
At first, both Teams can Pick one Class they want to have in their Team. This alone could be very interesting:
Take Team Paradigm for example: Do they go with the obvious choice and pick the Guard, because its such an important Class, or do they want to secure Teldo his Engineer, because they know that the opposing Team might simply ban it, because Teldo is so known for his Engineer and plays it so well. But then what about Phanta and his beloved Ele?
It could also give newer Teams a small Bonus (that they’ll probably need), because the opposing Team won’t know what to ban/pick.
Banning
In the second Stage, each Team bans one Class that the other Team can’t choose. This can also include the Pick of the first Round, because it was simply that; a Pick, it didn’t make the Pick safe from being banned, it just gave the Team the Option to have one Char already in their Team before the Bans.
Second Round of Picks
Now each Team picks two more Classes. It’s important to note at this Point, that you can Pick the same class multiple Times, as long as it hasn’t been banned by the opposing Team. So you have to think about stuff like: This Team has an incredible Warrior (relax, it’s just an example), but they are also known for running two Eles. Do I now wanna ban their Warrior, which carries them like crazy, or do I wanna mess up their Strategy by banning the Ele.
Second Round of Bans
Now that the Strategy seems to be forming, each Team can again ban 1 class, which then makes 2 banned classes for the last Phase of Picking.
Third Round of Picks
Each Team picks a fourth Class out of all but the two that got banned by the other Team.
So, now each Team has 4 Picks in their Pocket.
Now it gets interesting, because now Teams can force one Class upon the other Team, but before that comes another Stage:
Banning forced Picks
Every previous ban is lifted in this Phase!
Each Team can ban one Class they don’t want to be forced to play (it could also be 2 or 3, whatever ^^‘). This also includes any Class that was picked in the first round (so if one Team safe-picked a Guard, they can now ban the Guard as a forced-pick, because they don’t want two Guards).
forcing Picks
Now each Team forces one Pick that hasn’t been banned from being forced-picked by the Team they are picking the Class for.
Now as far as Priority of Picking and banning goes, since there is no overlap in choosing Heroes like in the MOBAs (where one Hero could only be picked once), I don’t think it really matters. Maybe in terms of countering and figuring out the opposing Teams Strategy, there would have to be sth. done about the Priority with which one Team picks their 2 picks of the second picking Stage and the 1 ban plus the last Pick or sth.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
Is HGH still a problem ? The top engineers are not running with HGH anymore. The damage after Incendiary powder nerf is not that good. Survivability with nerfed Elixir S is maybe the worst of all possible builds.
I think HGH is balanced or maybe a little too weak instead of too overpowered. (I guess removing random stuff from Elixir H should be fine)
That’s mainly cuz of S/D-Thiefs IMHO. HGH gets countered soooooo hard by them, because they can
- Easily jump to the Location of the HGH-Engi on most Maps
- Steal all their Boons
- Do insane DMG to them due to the often glassy Nature of the HGH (okay, most play them with tankier Amus now, but it’s still good DPS)
It’s absolutely a Metagame-thing, I think if they slightly nerf S/D-Thief (which a lot of Ppl want to see), but buff Necros (also good Boon-removal and good range to combat the HGH-Engi), it’ll be pretty balanced.
It’s IMHO not HGH alone anyways, but the Combination of HGH, Cleaning Formula 409 (what an obscure Trait-Name btw. ^^’) and Fast acting Elexirs that make the build so Potent. Also, the Nades profit very well from both additional Condi- and Physical DMG.
The build is definitely not too weak and if the Hardcounters to it aren’t played as often anymore and ppl aren’t as used to dealing with them as well as they are now (cuz so many teams run them), it can easily come back with full force again.
I think the build is fine though, I like the fact that there are a few builds that are very strong, but also have very strong hardcounters: It makes ppl think when coming up with their Team-setup and forces them to set Priorities, really analyze the Meta etc. This was a crucial Part of GW1 and I like that it can be seen in GW2 as well.
The first Top-Team that really utilizes counters and different strategies and builds on different Maps will IMHO rip apart everything else. It’s like in SC2 or any other RTS-Game: Against most Strategies there is a good Counter and if ppl play the same thing over and over again, they might simply get hardcountered and loose because of the Build-Order, or in GW2’s case, the Team-Setup and the Strategy.
Trap ranger, BM ranger and S/d thief. No bias here
dude quick, change your Signature, or everyone knows!!!!!
If the Problem is HGH, hardcounter it with Necro or S/D-Thief…..
- Knowing exactly when you can go in for a few bombs, because you simply cannot eat a Putrid Mark at any cost while both the Necro and you are within the radius
why does the necro being within the radius matter at all? you know that, if putrid mark hits, all of his conditions are transferred, no matter where the nec is?
Didn’t know that but you’re right, thanks for the Info.
ANet will buff Weakness, but a bit of additional Endurance-hate couldn’t hurt.
It would suit the War pretty well to either have more Weakness or some Endurance-drainers.
ANet would be missing out on a free opportunity for a new game-mode if they don’t do it.
They don’t have to think about it for weeks and balance it either; throw it out there and exchange the Upgrades with simple Buffs (there are good suggestions here).
But for gods sake keep the downed-mode in it!
—> Maybe the Map would simply not work, but it’s worth a try if it literally would take no time to get this Map into sPvP. It doesn’t need to be perfect right out of the gate, it doesn’t need to be a tournament-Map etc. but at least give it a quick try.
If the reactions are very positive, then you can start thinking about balancing it, but why not just NOT overthink things and throw it out there? ANet tends to overthink sPvP a bit too much atm. they really DON’T want to make quick balance-changes, they DON’T want to put out new Game-Modes because theres a chance that they won’t work.
Well, here you have a chance to make sth. happen quick and easy and articulate it as that to the Community. No1 would say that ANet is bad because the Game-Mode doesn’t work and they could even pull the Map after a Week if it’s a hopeless cause. But there is a chance it could be fun, so why not?
Just advertise it as a fun minigame and see what happens!
I can’t come up with a single reason why they wouldn’t do it, but I still have doubts that ANet will do this, because of the way they deal with PvP-Issues. It’s normally a good approach not to be hasty with decisions, but ANet is in terms of PvP on a whole other level where it actually gets contraproductive: It takes wayyyy too long to see changes, because they don’t want to experiment a little. Well, a little experimenation isn’t bad, who cares if Eles would be imba and broken on the Map, you don’t need to balance PvP around the Mode, JUST THROW IT OUT THERE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!
*Edit: ANet kinda reminds me of an overprotective Mother that doesn’t want their Kids to be endangered so they don’t let them out to play and explore, just to realize that in 10 years, they’ll have a Kid with the social competence of a Potato…. :P
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
I played this Game-Mode today and It’s just nowhere near as fun, complex and exciting as structured PvP. There’s really no depth to it and if ppl suggest that it’s better PvP than sPvP, they have no clue about sPvP….
I wouldn’t mind seeing the Map reappropriated for sPvP though, I mean: It’s there, ppl seem to like the jumping around, so why not?
They could just exchange the little Upgrades with other Small Buffs and/or Points towards the win to encourage Movement around the Map. Maybe it would be completely imbalanced, maybe it would be amazing, but if they’ve already made the Map, why the hell not?
At least it could be an interesting case-study of how other game-modes could play out, what builds would be used, if it actually works and is fun etc. I haven’t played and thought about it enough to know how it would work, but again; they already have done 99% of the work: They don’t need to think about it to make it balanced, just throw it out there and see what happens! I’m sure no1 would hold anything against ANet if it simply doesn’t work. But IF there is potential and the reaction of the community was positive, they could then start trying to balance it.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
I personally do not think that teldos build should be run by anybody but teldo. It’s an extremely specialized build that fills an extremely specific role that is nothing but subpar in other areas. Teldo is an amazing player, but watching his stream and comparing your own achievements with that of his while playing his build is kind of insane. The only reason why he does so well in situations where his build sucks kitten is that he’s played that build forever and a day and he’s also a god amongst men
I would never recommend the build to anyone, it’s not an exceptionally difficult build, it’s just worse in a large majority of situations than other builds.
Personally, I find playing HGH at the skill cap exceptionally harder than playing those types of builds.
And to answer your question, thieves engis and bunker guards are the hardest classes IMO. Every class is hard at the skill cap, but there are under a handfull of players even close to the skillcap across any given class in the entire world. A lot of those players can play other classes at an exceptional level as well.
I don’t know if it’s as bad of a build in many Situations as you describe it, but I think that the build has ways of dealing with different Situations, just with harder to execute Options.
Take a MU against a Necro for example, which is one of the hardest ones for this build. The Necro has great Condi-Removal, while the Engi doesn’t (better than it used to though, thanks to the new Healing Turret).
Now while other classes could simply dish out more physical DMG or have easy to use Condition-Removal with the press of a button, the Engi has to work differently:
- Blinding/dodging Deathly Swarm is incerdibly important
- Using your Elexir R intelligently for both Condition-Removal and Rezzing
- Knowing exactly when you can go in for a few bombs, because you simply cannot eat a Putrid Mark at any cost while both the Necro and you are within the radius
- Knowing when to go in and interrupt the Heal is also very important, because it will deny Heal and Condi-removal.
With this example, I wanted to illustrate, that the build is actually extremely versatile in tons of different Situations, but playing them in the right way is both harder to theorycraft about, as well as to execute correctly.
The build just has tons of Skills/Traits that can be used in multiple different ways:
- Blinds (can be used offensive, defensive, to protect teammates)
- Knockbacks (Again, can be used extremely offensive by denying heals, but they can also interrupt crucial Skills that would wreck the Engi, as well as getting Distance between you and the opposing Players)
- Stealth (You can use it to escape, to let a teammate escape, to try and sneak in bombs undetected, to plan a surprise-attack, to saferezz, to stomp easier, to deny crucial targeted skills, to delay while waiting for crucial CD’s etc.)
- Other Combo-Fields: Do I use them selfishly, do I try and give my Team maximum Support, do I look for max DPS with the Fields and make combo-finishers my second Priority?
I really don’t know many builds as versatile as this one, even though there are of course Situations were the build isn’t too strong, but you cannot ever say: “well, I can’t do anything in this Situation” because theres always some use you can squeeze out of the build.
Other builds often encounter Situations (of course they should avoid them, but it happens nonetheless) where they simply won’t be able to do anything useful.
Take a Cantrip-Ele for example: If he encounters another Cantrip-Ele that has a Point; well, you aren’t gonna do anything. There are also extremely hard MU’s that are unwinnable for various classes, where they can only delay. Well, the Engi can delay pretty well and he might even get a decap on top of it!
It’s a build that is IMHO completely unparallelled in GW2 in terms of versatility, skill-cap and being fun to play!
Teldo’s build has 0 skillshots. I mean he doesn’t even use grenades, which aren’t that easy to land at range. Bombs are actually dumb, it’s similar to grenades at melee range, you just run around spamming them, waiting for that mad thief to die trying to kill you. Plus enginners have some natural tankiness, plus easy acces to vigor (a.k.a dodge spam), regen, switftness just switching kits………… I would say enginners are nw friendly actually.
This proves my Point exactly: Bad Players won’t get much out of the build. ^^’
No Skillshots? Try Skillshots were you don’t simply have to aim a cursor, but actually physically walk there.
Spamming Bombs? Try Bombs that will drastically change the outcome of an engagement if you are able to hit them.
Tankyness? try 1v1’ing a Mesmer where 1 Shatter he lands will most likely win him the fight.
Easy access to swiftness/vigor. Well, try and keep the boons up during a fight 100%, not that easy and it requires good planning and mechanics, while other classes simply get it while landing crits…. -.-°
Then, there are of course the blinds and knockbacks which open up a huge variation of possibilites. Knowing what skill to blind or interrupt is one of the most difficult aspects of the Game.
The build has so much depth to it with Multiple Combo-Fields and Blast-Finishers. Mastering the use of Smokefields + blast finishers in structured PvP is a world of it’s own. Then there are the Waterfields and the Fire Fields.
You clearly have no Idea how to play this build and how versatile and deep it is.
@natsos
I really have no clue what you are talking about. If I understood you correctly, you stated that 1v1-balance is necessary to get a decent balance in 5v5. I stated the points, where 1v1 balance is extremely skewed and doesn’t offer any insight into what a Teamfight-Scenario might look like; I wasn’t talking about Phantasm-Mesmers or other specific builds, but balance in general.
Yes, 1v1 balance is a very basic step to achieve balance, but theres no way you’ll get a good balance if you only look at 1v1. In fact, it might be the case, that even if you have the perfect 1v1-balance, the game might be totally broken in 5v5.
1) 1v1 doesn’t account for a lot of the Potential of AoE-DMG. Yes, it’ll have a certain effects on builds with Pets, Minions or Illusions, but AoE will likely be most useful in Situations where Multiple Enemy Players have to ball up, because they need to rez, because of the Map-Layout etc. Now if you take a HGH-Engi and balance him according to 1v1’s, ppl might think that his DPS is okay, but when you look at an actual Teamfight, he’ll likely do double or tripple the amount of DPS he’d do in most of 1v1-Situations.
2) What I wanted to express here is that Conditions don’t get better linearly in most Situations when you add more Condition-Spammers together, because the Amount of additional Condition-Uptime will very likely be higher than the additional amount of Condition-Removal you get with more Players. Yes, there is a Potential for a high amount of Condi-removal if you really want to go for it, but in most builds, you’ll have an easier time getting more Conditions, than COndition-Removal. Even builds that are strong against Conditions (like Cantrip-Ele), don’t offer as much Condi-Removal for their Teammates as for themselves. Thats why Conditions might easily reach a point where they get too strong of you have multiple spammers if you only balance them around 1v1’s.
3) This is a very basic example of why you can’t balance a game around 1v1’s that is a Team-Game. 1 Stun of 2 Seconds in a 1v1 is sth. completely different than 2×2 Seconds of Stun when chained together with good timing. Also, there are no Stunbreakers a Player can give to his Teammates, so while the Amount of Stuns scales with additional Players, the Amount of Stunbreakers doesn’t.
4) I really don’t know why you keep talking about spiked DMG as if it would solidify your Argument, when it’s actually a major part of why GW2 has to be balanced around Team-Compositions and not 1v1’s. With this point I simply wanted to show that there a re a multitude of Skills, Traits, etc. that don’t do anything if you don’t have Players around. Let’s say theres a class that can Fullheal Teammates every 5 Seconds instantly, well, in 1v1, this class might be underpowered and needed to get buffed, but in Teamfights, it would already be heavily broken and each additional buff would just make it worse.
5) For example Spiked DMG: The amount of Healing doesn’t scale all to well with additional Players, but the DMG can scale more than proportionally (cuz there are also AoE-Buffs, Vulnerability etc.) balancing around 1v1 wouldn’t help this fact at all and you can literally get nowhere if you simply look at 1v1’s.
6) Running away from a fight might very well win you the game. Actively avoiding Teamfights with more than 3-4 Players actually was a very common Strategy in GW1 to beat Necro-Spikes, Ranger-Spikes and other very strong Teambuilds in GvG. This game isn’t Deathmatch, there are strategic Objectives, so it’s never simply about winning a Teamfight. It’s a big part of it, yes, but stuff like a Portal, which is clearly one of the best skills in the Game in structured PvP, would get completely laughed at in 1v1 and ANet might think; Why does nobody use that cool Skill? – I guess we’ll have to reduce the cooldown to 10 Seconds!
7) Again no Idea why you start talking about Phantasm-Mesmers specifically… What I wanted to say here is a simple concept that in a Teamgame, not every Char needs to be able to do and deal with everything. While in a 1v1, it would be completely unacceptable if a Char has very bad Condition-Removal, it might work in Teamfights, because other Chars in the Teamcomp can make up for it with Shouts and other AoE that removes Conditions. Same goes for the Guardian: Many ppl build him that tanky, that he does very very little DMG, but because he’s so tanky and has excellent Support, they let other Chars in the Teambuild worry about dealing DMG.
How can you balance a game in 5vs5 if it is not balanced on 1vs1 before..?
I mean, if 1 mesmer can beat any other proffesion/build out there, what would 5 of the same mesmers do against 5 random proffesions?Balance starts from the minimun(1vs1) and ends on the maximum(5vs5). Once you balance proffesions on 1vs1, you have balanced the XvX .
Thats simply not true….. How can u possibly believe that?
It is pretty simple actually, if we take away the parts which you(most of the time) face 1vs1 or 2vs2 on PvP we are left with the aspect of spiking.
If your teams overall spike is bigger than the enemy team, and the overall damage your team takes is lower than the enemy team, then your team will win.When you start something, you start from the basics, you balance the classes as units(this is not pokemon, water beats fire etc.) and you synergize them on different scenarios of XvX,until you succeed the bigger number of scenarios balanced.
And it is pretty hard to balance 30vs30(wvw) at the same time of 5vAI(dungeons) and 5v5(pvp) if you aim for the specific values each time and not at the very base(1vs1).
The only scenario a 5 phantasm mesmer team could lose, is the scenario facing 5 grenades engies(or 5 more skilled phantasm mesmers).
1) All AoE-effects like DMG, Shouts, Healing etc.
2) Condition-stacking.
3) Chain-CC.
4) Effects that depend on Teammates being there (like traits that affect rezzes).
5) The fact that in this game, dps scales way better with more Players than healing.
6) Any kind of Movement or Objective based advantages.
7) The fact that Chars can compensate for flaws in one build by teaming up with others.
All are almost completely neglected in 1v1’s……
Dragon Ball without down-state sytem is much better pvp game.
AN could you remove down-state from sPvP maps or can you give an option in private games/custom Arenas to turn off the Down-state.
Downed-state is the best feature in pvp togethe with dodging….
Teldos Nodefighter Engi probably.
It’s a strong build, but it’s really hard to master.
How can you balance a game in 5vs5 if it is not balanced on 1vs1 before..?
I mean, if 1 mesmer can beat any other proffesion/build out there, what would 5 of the same mesmers do against 5 random proffesions?Balance starts from the minimun(1vs1) and ends on the maximum(5vs5). Once you balance proffesions on 1vs1, you have balanced the XvX .
Thats simply not true….. How can u possibly believe that?
@Powerbottom
so many lectures that you’re trying to give…and you don’t know you can immobilize ele before he uses vapor form?..so what high level you’re playing again?
Between a profession that can potentially kill you while downed and another that may only waste your time for 1s to roflstomp him..the latter is the hardest?…nice logic but I’ll stick to my logicIf my team is capping..nobody care if the enemy team waste time try to ress the ele far away, an ele is nowhere near the level of threat of a generic mesmer…once in a while you get that serious super skilled ele who may possibly pose a threat…but that it’s extremely rare
So? immobilize or not, he’s still invulnerable.
I normally play in top300 btw (although we’re not too active atm), I scrim and 1v1 with Top10 Players and I was top20 in the height of GW1 GvG and again; I’m talking about a Teamfight-Scenario with 3+ Players on both Sides. In those Scenarios, if sm1 gets downed and stomped, you basically lost.
Why do you think ppl don’t choose Thiefs or even kinda glassy Ele’s as first-targets? Because they know they won’t be able to stomp them before the rez happens.
I acknowledged already that there are Situations where other downed-Modes are better than Thief/Ele/Mesmer, but they are rare and you wouldn’t seek out Teamfight-Situations with those builds anyways and the easy stomp is a big reason for that.
Oh yeah, Engi downed Mode is indirectly pretty strong too, cuz of Elexir R rez.
And this isn’t a discussion about which class is better nor do I say Ele>Mesmer or sth. The reason why this discussion about downed-modes started was because I said that the downed-mode of the Mesmer is a big Plus in Teamfights. I have no Idea why you are talking about rezzing Eles far away or sth. btw. but if you don’t see the value of rezzing Players, you surely haven’t played any competetive premade-Matches even in the Top-1000.
Rezzing, not getting stomped and generally controlling downed-players and rezzers with AoE etc. is simply incredibly, game-changingly important in Teamfights.
@sorrychief: You know there are a lot of different variations of Phantasm-Mesmer, right? They range from rather tanky and Sustain-Heavy to even glassier than a Shatter-Mesmer/Thief…
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
10) Strong downed-mode, which is getting incresingly important nowadays. I see full teamfight-comps built around the fact that their Players are hard to stomp (1 Mes, 2 Ele, 1 Thief + Tankguard).
Ahahahahahaha. And you expect to be taken seriously? Mesmer hard to stomp? Maybe for kittened people.
Easy Stomps are stability/blindstmps, cuz they are basically free stomps
Hard Stomps are those with 1 getaway from any kind of Stomp (Ele and Mesmer) and then theres the Thief with 2.Whats so hard to understand?
Mesmers can be handled, but it’s super chancy. You can fake out the stomp and re-stomp to force their cloak skill prematurely and then hope they re-appear near you but that’s about it. Ele is the hardest to stomp. Thief is annoying to stomp as well but you can at least dps him or blink to him if you have a blink skill (autotarget blinks are even better). Personally I enjoy seeing them get Moa’d when they are downed :P
HAHA..ele the hardest to stomp….it must be hard to walk for 1s to stomp a free kill target while every other profession can still kill you while downed, professions like engy and ranger can have 2-3 interrupts, engy can self-ress, mesmer can crit for 4-5k dmg while downed, thief hit you for 1.5k and cripple you while teleporting and stealthing away….and in all this ele is the hardest to stomp..my god really
In what kind of Hotjoin-Games do you play?
If sm1 in a Teamfight is downed, everyone starts to rez him and the oppising Team damages him and 1 does a Safe-Stomp. Every Team will have a safestomp ready in a teamfight. There will be almost no chance for the downed player to lie on the ground for more than a few seconds and he’ll not do dmg in 99% of the cases but try to rez himself or use the escape if he has one.
And yes, the hardest Target to stomp on first try is the Ele, but not by a lot, because even with fake-out-stomps (which costs you time you don’t have when a target is getting rezzed) and potential Blink-stomps don’t make a huge difference. That’s why the Thief has by far the best downed-mode, cuz he has 2 rather safe escapes. Then comes the Ele, then the Mesmer and all the rest are freestomps in Teamfights.
Yes, some downed-modes are decent in 1v1’s or sth., but that wasn’t what I was talking about and it doesn’t happen too often that a fight is decided in downed-mode (it happens, but being hard to stomp in Teamfights is easily 10 times more important than having a pet to rez you, or having two interrupts, good DPS or sth.)
On the very high level, it’s all about controlling downed Players, it’s such an important Aspect, that’s why on-rez- and during-rez-effects as well as being able to AoE downed Players well and having Softrezzes available is one of the most important Aspects of a well thought-out Teamfight-oriented Team-Setup.
That’s where I come back to the Mesmer with his incredible Bubble during Rez (literally negates most DMG that Teams have against downed-players, like Thief Shortbow, Ele AoE, Nade-Engi) and his good downed-mode. Yes, it’s possible to get the bubble-rez on a Shatter as well (I’d highly recommend getting rid of at least 20 Points in Illusions and put them into Inspiration), but it’s easier to get it on the Phantasm-Mesmer.
Illusionary Persona is getting more and more useless anyways, because Mesmer deal a lot of their DPS from the distance now and for 1v1’s on the Nodes, you don’t send the Mesmer back anyways. Besides, the 300 Points of Condi-DMG get you nowhere…
mhmm… maybe thats a hint that it’s already coming this month with the next PvP-Patch?
I’m really excited about the Map; the one Treb (or sth. similar to a treb) sounds really nice and is prone to create Teamfight-Scenarios.
What I really want to se though is the layout of the Nodes: If the Nodes and the Areas around them are open and big enough, it’s gonna be one of the better Maps only by that. If it’s a clusterkitten like Mid-Node on Niflhel or Kyhlo; I’m a sad Panda.
10) Strong downed-mode, which is getting incresingly important nowadays. I see full teamfight-comps built around the fact that their Players are hard to stomp (1 Mes, 2 Ele, 1 Thief + Tankguard).
Ahahahahahaha. And you expect to be taken seriously? Mesmer hard to stomp? Maybe for kittened people.
Easy Stomps are stability/blindstmps, cuz they are basically free stomps
Hard Stomps are those with 1 getaway from any kind of Stomp (Ele and Mesmer) and then theres the Thief with 2.
Whats so hard to understand?
The Phantasm Mesmer pays for their 1v1 efficiency by sucking everywhere else.
I’m currently running this build, going for mercy runes or centaur, depending on me being a roamer or more in Teamfights.
Let me explain very carefully why this build is so much more than a 1v1-build:
1) Portal with reduced CD: Reduced Portal CD is worth pure Gold and Portal is always one of the best Skills to have.
2) Excellent Ranged-DPS in Teamfights: Thanks to the GS, Duelist etc.
3) Best Hardrez-Trait in the game (Medic’s Feedback) and can rez pretty good without dying even though he runs a Zerker-Amu because of it.
4) Decent AoE and decent against downed Players (GS 1 – yes, it’s AoE / Berzeker / GS 3 / Blurred Frenzy / Shatter if necessary)
5) AoE Knockback
6) Great Spike-Support with decent spiked DMG (not great, but decent) and an Immobilize/Stun
7) Very high Sustain for running a Berzerker-Amu because of great Regen-Uptime, Protection, reduced DMG per Illusion etc.
8) Some of the best Teamfight-Elites
9) Decent at stomping because of Distortion
10) Strong downed-mode, which is getting incresingly important nowadays. I see full teamfight-comps built around the fact that their Players are hard to stomp (1 Mes, 2 Ele, 1 Thief + Tankguard).It’s actually one of the best Teamfight-builds available and if you run it together with a bit of Support against Condis and decent Sustain-Pressure (for example Ele, Guard etc.) you really can’t go wrong in any Teamfights
None of the points you listed are even specific to a phantasm build, aside from the weak regen that phantasms offer, which you won’t be grouping around anyway, unless you want to get your phantasms destroyed by AoE the moment you summon them.
Shatter specs can also do everything you listed above whilst still not relying on the single-target and fragile source of damage that is phantasms.
Phantasm builds are undeniably “over-powered” in 1v1, but no-one can argue that their team fight efficiency is even remotely as high.
I just did.
The Phantasm Mesmer pays for their 1v1 efficiency by sucking everywhere else.
I’m currently running this build, going for mercy runes or centaur, depending on me being a roamer or more in Teamfights.
Let me explain very carefully why this build is so much more than a 1v1-build:
1) Portal with reduced CD: Reduced Portal CD is worth pure Gold and Portal is always one of the best Skills to have.
2) Excellent Ranged-DPS in Teamfights: Thanks to the GS, Duelist etc.
3) Best Hardrez-Trait in the game (Medic’s Feedback) and can rez pretty good without dying even though he runs a Zerker-Amu because of it.
4) Decent AoE and decent against downed Players (GS 1 – yes, it’s AoE / Berzeker / GS 3 / Blurred Frenzy / Shatter if necessary)
5) AoE Knockback
6) Great Spike-Support with decent spiked DMG (not great, but decent) and an Immobilize/Stun
7) Very high Sustain for running a Berzerker-Amu because of great Regen-Uptime, Protection, reduced DMG per Illusion etc.
8) Some of the best Teamfight-Elites
9) Decent at stomping because of Distortion
10) Strong downed-mode, which is getting incresingly important nowadays. I see full teamfight-comps built around the fact that their Players are hard to stomp (1 Mes, 2 Ele, 1 Thief + Tankguard).
It’s actually one of the best Teamfight-builds available and if you run it together with a bit of Support against Condis and decent Sustain-Pressure (for example Ele, Guard etc.) you really can’t go wrong in any Teamfights
Well, why not teamqueue then?
Besides, statistically speaking, if you aren’t a leaver yourself, there’s always a better chance of the opposing team having a leaver and your team doesn’t.
The only thing really effing up Solo-q is that they queue together with premades and that the matchmaking is so ridiculous, that I get almost no points for winning, but I loose like 500 ranks from loosing.
AoE actually does nothing against a good Phantasm-Mesmer, because:
- the best Phantasm is the Duelist, which has a huge range.
- Good Mesmers will spawn their Illusions in a way so they don’t ball up, which is very easy to do with 2 Duelists and 1 Berzerker.
- The Illusions have quite a bit of Health if you run the Signet, together with the fact that they have Retal, it’s a waste of time to try and attack them.
I’ve been saying for quite a while that Phantasm-Mesmer aren’t only viable in tpvp, but that they are currently the most diverse and strongest build, because they can literally do everything besides heavy tanking (they can have decent sustain though, but not enough for a tank) and very high spike-dmg (some builds have decent spike-dmg and spike-support, but not as high kittenter-Mesmers, Thiefs and Arcane-Eles).
To fix them, simply get rid of retal on the Phantasms and maybe reduce the amount of health gained by the Signet (but make the trait for moer health better. Sth. like 150% more health with the signet, and 50% with the trait, so both are useful, but you haver to sacrifice more utility to get the incredibly tanky Phantasms.)
gear prog is the death of serious and balanced pvp.
I think 80s is pretty decent, since it can be used when stunned, it has a potentially huge Fear-duration and it can benefit from tons of traits/runes because it’s a shout. I’d much rather see the Trait for reduced Shout-recharge mixed with another trait or being placed in another trait-line, because if you go for a sustain/shout-war, most builds I know and have tested need other traits in the Tactics Traitline.
To add a few more,
- improved right-click targetting;
- animations with lesser detail (I believe it’s coming soon?);
- trait changes to all traitlines in the game, from 1 to as much as five changes per line;
— improving, reworking or merging underused/ bad traits;
- rating decay in the leaderboard;
- improved matchmaking;
- new pvp map? (Skyhammer)
Is this really confirmed?
Btw. Ever played SWtOR? The right-click targetting in GW2 is a Godsend compared to that in SWtOR – it was literally impossible to Target anything with the mouse. AND the tabbing through targets was much worse as in GW2.
In GW2, what I notice is that it’s easy to “grab and drag” the screen when you are trying to klick on sth. so I think a longer time needed until it triggers from “click” to “grab” and some features like being able to press a button to not being able to klick on Teammates and maybe NPC’s of all sorts would be enough.
Not scared at all, I wouldn’t mind at all if Wars or Necs got overbuffed to be honest; it’ll at least shake up the Meta a bit and if they are too strong, they can always be scaled back (whack-a-mole-balance, as ANet calls it, isn’t too great, but if it happens very seldom, it’s really not that big of a deal – just a breath of fresh air.)
That’s why playing War with Zerker-Amu in the current state is stupid; he’s already easy to stomp, if he’s also easy to down, why the heck would you wonder about being a high-priority Target?
All Players that wanna play War should simply forget about Zerker-Amu and 100b+Quickness…. There are tons of other War-builds out there that aren’t tied to high Precision or even high DPS.
Just some Ideas:
- Axe-Burst+Burst Mastery + Sigil of Int: most of the DPS will be Axe-F1 which is instant anyways, so you can easily run a Valk-Amu.
- Hammer+Mace-Shield Lockdown: Doesn’t need monster-DPS, because the lockdown is sick.
Valk-Amu Phantasm-Mesmer:
High DPS, decent sustain, decent Teamfight, good Utilities (knockback, Moa/Quickness, Stuns) probably one of the strongest classes in 1v1, even against very tanky stuff like BM-Ranger.
It’s basically a jack of all trades.
Tabbing through Players to find the right target? Good freaking luck with that….
I don’t think there’s another Option in high-End play than to have very good Overview over a battlefield and to pick the right target manually with the mouse. You really need quick reactions and decent aiming, but I don’t think that this diminishes the game in any way – it makes it more challenging, but that’s IMHO a good thing.
So I don’t think you should keep your Target once it goes into stealth.
I do think the devs could make finding targets between all the minions etc. a bit easier, I have several ideas to accomplish this:
- Make Minion-Models and Pet’s smaller
- Diminish Effects so you are able to see stuff more clearly
- Maybe give us a a butto we can press to be able to click “through” minions, teammates, pets to hit a target easier that stands behind them. This Option could also make all the stuff you don’t want targeted a bit more see-through – this could really help IMHO, because even though I think finding and hitting the right target is an important skill to have in GW2, it shouldn’t be the case that you can’t click on it or even see it properly because of tons of pets, minions etc.
Obviously, those features shouldn’t work on Clones, so they still have the effect of distracting the opposing Players, but I see no reason why it shouldn’t work on Phantasms, since they look different than the main Mesmer anyways.
(edited by PowerBottom.5796)
the initiative on sword skill 2 shadow return should be WAY higher, it is just a spammable, almost free, stunbreaker ^^ i did a post about this, they seem not to give a dammn crap
I’d have to disagree here, for multiple reasons (and I don’t main Thief btw):
- Thief Condi-Remove is almost exclusively linked to stealth, if you don’t run stealth, you basically have the Sword 2 to get the Damaging Condiss off of you and maybe a utility, not much else.
- If the Thief wouldn’t have the Sword 2, almost any Thief would be forced to use Hide in Shadows, because it’s the only heal-skill that gets rid of the damaging Condis.
- If a Thief has to use Sword 2 because of too many condis, it actually drops his DPS by a huge amount, so he may get rid of the condis, but his DPS suffers – fair trade IMHO.
One mistake I’ve noticed in your play is your use of Reapers Mark.
The common rota for S/D-Thiefs is going in with flanking strike, then larc-strike, then Sword1 spams with some dodges. Often, they go in with Flanking, dodge and spam S1 a bit, then they come back with S2 immobilize for a guaranteed Larc-Strike Hit.
It’s extremely important not to put down your Reapers Mark too early, because the Thief will just evade it, you have to put it down in between Flanking Strike and Larc-Strike, the best possible time is probably before the third hit of the Sword1 when they S1-pressure you, before they larc-strike you, in that way, they will loose the biggest hit on their Sword (the third one in the combo) and they might loose the larc-strike, because they can’t hit you until it reverts back to the flanking strike.
Same goes for the Fear in Death-Shroud.
The Thief in the Vod did nowhere near max-dps btw. so against Thiefs maxxing their DPS (with the right combo and without that much stealth and disengages) you’ll be dead within seconds if you don’t run the toughness-Amu.
Also, on the toughness-Amu, you have enough sustain to apply conditions to the Thief, which will make him have to play more defensive by using a lot of Ini on clearing off Condis, which will not only make him waste Ini on non-aggressive skills, but also make him port in and out a lot, which takes away TONS of DPS from the build.
Also, safe your Corrupt Boon for the Lyssa-proc on Basi-Venom, it’ll totally destroy the Thief.
On the War, my Main Issues are with:
Rifle-F1
Totally useless…. IMHO, it should be either an instant with reduced Damage, or an instant that Immobilizes, stuns, or knocks back.
Rifle-1
More Physical DPS, less Bleed.
Rifle-4
Should be 1/4s casttime.
Axe-3
Great Skill, but it needs to be 8 seconds to work with Axe-F1(+Burst Mastery) and Leg Specialist. It’s really important, because the reduced CD won’t help you anything because the Axe Burst is so easy to dodge, you need the immobilize for it to land.
Hammer-F1 and Hammer 5
They both need a faster Animation
Sword-2
Decent Gap-closer, but whats the point if the target is out of reach again within seconds? It should really apply a short cripple, so it has good Synergy with Leg Specialist.
Sword-3
CD down to 8, if not 5.
no Idea why necs would use carrion amu…… You don’t need health nor Power, on the rabid you can at least use the toughness.
Also, get double energy runes and dodge larc-strike.
And if u go 30 in soul reaping, get the stabi.
Yes, I see no reason why not, because it offers more diversity and 2H-weapons aren’t inherently better than 2 one-handed ones.
are you insane? that shield personifies esports, it should be even bigger for even better esports. its steps like these in the right direction that will take this game to mlg
It should be 3D, even if you don’t own a 3D-Screen, so it reaally gets in your face! And for gods sake, make a “YOU LOOSE”-Animation for the loosing Team, they deserve the humiliation! ^^’
Srsly though: I like it, just make a small “x” on Top so ppl can get rid of it and look at stats or taunt their enemies or whatever. :P
Nope: There’s no Problem that those Skills can be countered in some way. If the Elite or the class is too weak, or the ability to get rid of the boons too strong, balance them in some other way.
Having the ability to remove those boons is an interesting factor in the Game and forces the player that uses them, but also the other team, to make certain decisions and keep up with CD’s and stuff like that.