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Hahaha theres been so much class shifting that now when we finally feel powerful with a class we expect a nerf
In any case i see where you are coming from, necros can negate melee and ranged attacks without shroud and still do high damage. Before all other classes had to do is rush them, stun them a few times add some well timed blocks and evades and that was that. Now its very similar to fighting a mesmer so requires a little more to kill. Just seems too good to be true i guess
Necro has burning, and this thread probably wouldnt have happened if it isnt being treated like the only condition in the game.
If you are talking of stacking then sure other classes are better but condi necro will beat condi anything any day. If you are talking about PvE well they dont cleanse like players so you can maintain high stacks of various conditions
To answer your question, after the recent buff no i dont think scepter needs a buff. It will cause a lot of problems if it was very strong on its own.
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Or a skill that lets necros lose say 50% Hp for huge party buffs
Again, i also dont know if lyssa is the best choice , if HoT has no condi pressure then rune of the eagle will be much better. I only put it there to get precision to 40% and its my favorite rune in the game.
I am hoping HoT will be punishing, where at any given time in a pack of mobs you are getting hit with serious condi and direct damage pressure and AI aren’t one attack robots. I quit PvE because i kept falling asleep doing most of the content (I still dont have gift of exploration after 3 years)
Bam! there you go. Ferocity is at 795 (Assassin’s prescence wasnt calculated but it is supposed to also be applied to you. I used lyssa because i don’t know what the condi stuff will be like otherwise i would use Eagle
Edit: Changed from Sword sword to sword shield and from sentinel to valk
That’s…probably way too tanky. And runes of lyssa are a waste since this is a direct damage spec. Also, Sword/Shield isn’t considered dual wielding.
Given how mobile revenant is in combat plus all of the boons, I don’t see them being used for tanking. Since they have no ground targetted AoE (at least with a direct damage build), they have very good pressure and can easily keep on the heals of any boss. I would look for other classes with stronger heals (as Revenant healing abilities aren’t strong enough to handle an oh crap moment recovery).
Probably, but you can easily mantain over 10 stacks of might putting you at almost 2500 power. Then there is the near perm 80% crit chance. The high toughness just sort of happened due to the way the stats are combined.
O and lyssa is because i dont know what the new stuff is going to be . It would be quite silly of Anet to design HoT without taking conditions seriously as seriously as it is in PvP. That can be swapped out anyway as long as crit chance stays over 40% base
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Bam! there you go. Ferocity is at 795 (Assassin’s prescence wasnt calculated but it is supposed to also be applied to you. I used lyssa because i don’t know what the condi stuff will be like otherwise i would use Eagle
Edit: Changed from Sword sword to sword shield and from sentinel to valk
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The hood looks like the Arah skin to me, the sword yes i think is HoT
Difference between best dps and pure dps. If you want pure dps, sure berserker but If you are like me and don’t want to run the risk of eating damage you can’t easily avoid i would say mixed stats. Not sure which but if during a solo fight you can get your power to around 2300 easily, keep your armour at around 2600, your crit chance around 50% (before fury) and ferocity at around 600 then you will be good.
Stats im suggesting may seem unrealistic but if you consider the easy might and fury as wellas Shiro’s free ferocity and using a ferocity stacking sigil. it should be possible if you mix captains, Kinght’s, Zerk and Valk.
A lot would say all this is nonsense and you should just go zerk but a lot of changes are happening, Devs are finally realizing the zerk easy mode thing is no good, so investing in full zerk may just mean you will die too many times for it to be worth it.
Unlocks? Really? thats pretty cool i didnt know this. I’m expecting the tribal armour. We already know they that shall not be named are capable of removing content to give it back as “new content” so i wouldnt be surprised if the armour is the light(that we’ve all been waiting for) at the end of the Reaper tunnel
It isnt reasonable, just adds to your bad@ss points if you can do it. Not entirely sure if it would make a difference or not, for GTAoEs with travel time or 1s or longer cast times yes a red ring warning would make all the difference but for marks? no travel time so short a cast time, the time between the red ring appearing and cast time would be so short that a normal human shouldnt be able to react to it. Only way is if you know the mark is coming then you would dodge/block regardless of any ring warning.
On thief where I actually need to dodge it, once i notice the staff out, I blind to check if marks are incoming then just dodge 3 or 4 times. On any other class there similar ways to check or defend without wasting an attack opportunity trying to avoid a mark not meant for you.
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Try asking this on his channel instead of the forum? Believe it or not, not everyone here like him so me, for example, consider this spam and free promotion.
not sure why people wont like him, everything he says is based on a lot of tests
Did you stop to consider how much that would destroy the game?
the way guard is now i dont think there is a need for +25% MS, so many pulls teleports and leaps as well as a swiftness/aegis skill.
This is the perfect time for me to say how wonderful Well of Darkness is. My dream utility set up is WoD, Spectral grasp, corrossive poison cloud and flesh golem/Plague. Daredevils can evade from now till the Queens Jubilee and they will get no where.
I think the part of the problem with ‘misdirected changes’ on things, like shield, etc… is that sometimes, devs get the wrong message from people and this is a good example. We all must know exactly how we would feel if THIS was the fix that Anet implemented for SW’s. We would hate it. It’s worthless.
Misdirected or not anyone that has played the class would be able to easily tell where the problems are. An immobile shield is completely uncalled for in game that emphasizes movement in combat. Except sanctuary, no shielding skill should be immobile, this is something that should have been obvious within the first month of GW2, i have maybe 10 hours with guard and this was obvious to me. Makes me wonder if they actually play the classes or they just do everything according to the most popular suggestions.
Spirit weapons should work with the player not drag the player down. By their nature they shouldnt be limited by physical elements like distance so they shouldnt have to travel in slow motion to keep up with you before you can use them. They should be able to teleport properly or appear out of thin air at a target on command similar to Revenant’s “Drop the hammer”. They are spirit weapons not Engineer turrets.
My point is Devs shouldnt be getting the wrong message, if they play the classes they should have the message before we even realize there is a message to give since they are the first ones to see it and use it.
Is there a reason why this weapon doesnt track players? and I mean properly track the player so if you teleport it also teleports to you (since it is already capable of teleporting) and when moving in any direction it should follow in sync. Goes without saying should also track while shielding
Is there a reason why this is not the case, i find it hard to believe this is intentional so technological limitation? if so why create the skill? or are there plans of fixing it? plans that havent made priority amongst any programmer after 3 years? Thought it would have been fixed at the same time shield of absorption was fixed or am i missing something?
EDIT: Just thought of an amusing rework for this weapons’ command skill:
“Command the shield of avenger to create a ring of warding at a target area granting aegis to all allies in it”
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Most of the time i find that a lot of these questions like what kind of content and how hard, price, or in this case how to handle RNG can often be answered by the creators themselves.
I assume you guys at Anet play video games or at the very least play GW2, so would you prefer to be at the mercy of some Math. random code or would you prefer to always reap the benefits of your efforts? Nobody like rewards completely based on luck so what are we left with?
I would say multiple reward systems for big items like legendary and ascended pieces then you can have certain items only available in parts of the game like skins. This will encourage players to play through the entire game (as long as the content itself is fun) instead of them focusing on certain parts because the rewards are better/guranteed
They could fix it by giving control of the kick to the player similar to revenants Duelists preparation (Sword 4). Basically turn the flip over skill into an active not passive.
DD is an extra dodge bar and physical skills everything else is just an add on. The real question is why are there two traitlines for dodging? You can replace some acro traits with DD traits and you wouldnt miss acro
They could have put DD into acro as a core spec then given the whole martial arts thing a supernatural flare as an elite like using Chi to do flashy stuff (similar to bleach and Naruto) but nope best they could do was kill the class to make DD useful. Lol i dont think ill ever forgive them for that.
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This why devs can’t take us seriously
Run an evade Daredevil without shadow refuge. I did it on base thief and it is quite hard, but the adrenaline rush is quite addictive. Then they killed the style for really absurd reasons, so now its not just hard but unecessarily punishing and unrewarding.
If evade Daredevil without SR doesnt do it for you then go Sword/Sword Shiro/X Revenant
Stealth has been boring since the moment it existed. Seems people are noticing now after seeing all the fancy non stealth stuff.
I mained necro for 2 years then got tired of all the issues and odd limitations so i decided to try an evade thief last October. Really enjoyed playing it, spent a good amount of time working on it and not getting into bad habits (evade spamming). Then they nerfed the class to the ground while buffing everything else. Anet seems to be in the habit of double nerfing ( e.g Chill stack limitations + chill trait nerfs at the same time). In the thief’s case it was Vigor nerf while at the same time removing Feline grace. This ofcourse killed the class i (and probably a lot of other people) spent a lot of time on. We now know that they did it to make Daredevil relevant.
Now we have Revenant, extremely fun class to play, versatile, decent mobility, decent evade capacity, the set up I use is basically Thief without stealth. The problem now is how long before the class is nerfed. How long before builds and (more importantly) play styles become destroyed?
I am hoping that after all the shuffling around and everything that has happened this past year one or two things would have been learned so there wont be anymore drastic changes and over nerfs. Will this be the case or do I not bother with this class instead of going through what you put us through with Acro thief.
I feel like we are being trolled
It’s 3900 health over 3 seconds. It’s not a reset button.
Let’s try not to exaggerate in this supposedly, ‘Objective’ discussion.
I personally found crystal hibernation very underwhelming. It really decimated my offensive momentum and anyone who isn’t part-orangutan can figure out how to take advantage of a 3 second downtime if they don’t have unblockables.
Let the trait proc, then cast shield 5. Bam, over 7000 hp. Now cast either of your heals and you’re back at a hefty amount of hp.
He has a point…But rain that really depends on how well you do without using shield 5. If you use it before the trait then, it isnt really a game changer on its own.
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Consider this. Raid is so hard that it takes a high level of skill just to survive so it is normal for entire parties to wiped out often. Necro is last one standing and then uses Shroud 4 to teleport the downed team, then uses signet of Undeath to rez everyone at the same time. This is something only the necromancer can do. The only problem is content has not been hard enough to need something like this.
Necros are great at applying conditions. Anet has repeatedly said that necro is meant to bring conditions to the team.
is this a joke? Necro has access to a high VARIETY of condis, they are NOT great at applying them them though relative to other professions. Condi Warrior, Engie, Ranger, Rev beat Condi Necro.
Lol…
/15 charEngineer trolling? Or just never actually played necro?
I just find it amusing because he seems to imply that it is bad. Sure there might be better in terms of output but does that somehow make what necro has bad? really? we are going back to that type of argument? combat is a lot more complicated than damage vs damage comparisons. I was just saying You can have your condi damage and then slide in the occasional (x)k gravedigger. Wouldnt you say its a good thing there is so much damage in one attack that you dont need to worry about staying in melee for so long to do high direct damage.
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Necros are great at applying conditions. Anet has repeatedly said that necro is meant to bring conditions to the team.
is this a joke? Necro has access to a high VARIETY of condis, they are NOT great at applying them them though relative to other professions. Condi Warrior, Engie, Ranger, Rev beat Condi Necro.
Lol…
/15 char
lol we cant keep referring to that video, the Rev did not have a clue what he/she was doing, was panicking all over the place. Not entirely sure why the necro posted it. Might as well have posted killing an uplevel.
Very entertaining, you are definitely a pro at clutch plays. I know class is new so no one is a beast with it yet but just a couple things i noticed:
The f2 ability is really good if you are using Shiro and you often forget to use it. I remember same thing happened to me when i was starting, had to make a conscious effort to use it when on shiro and after unrelenting asssault because the protection doesnt help when evading.
Unrelenting assault to start a fight often doesnt work out too well against good players because they will be blocked or evaded and you are more vulnerable afterwards. I found it better to rush em with “One With Nature” active and kite for bit while auto attacking then use it while they are bursting.
Noticed you used elemental blast on yourself a few times, the swiftness from the passive is actually really useful, i would say elemental blast is best used when you think they are going to stand in a place for a bit then you smack em with unrelenting assault
Damaging conditions. People wanted to move away from the zerker meta, well now you have it. Yes it sucks now necros get all these nice dps stuff the game might be moving away from pure damage but this is what we asked for.
Necros are great at applying conditions. Anet has repeatedly said that necro is meant to bring conditions to the team. So many classes do boons already. Its probably time to bust out those hybrid builds.
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I was using marauder and then went berserker its not hitting as hard as it did last beta weekend. When I went from 12k grave diggers to hardly hitting 7k yeah something is wrong
Don’t you think something is wrong if you are doing 12k with grave digger?
3 years in and we are still doing damage vs damage comparisons. There is a lot more to combat than that:
What are the requirements for dealing the damage?
How easily can the damage be negated?
What can each class do to recover from damage?
How much damage can you afford to take?
Sure you can do 60k with burn alone but against necro you will do almost all of that damage to yourself.
Sure you might be able to do 5k direct damage with one attack, but was it negated by shroud? (I say negate because shroud can be recovered quicker now)
Thief might be able to do more damage than necro in a shorter space of time but thief cannot stand there and take even 1/2 of a necro’s burst but a necro can and can recover and counter quickly.
At the end of the day it is how each class works. If you want to call out mismatches, look at that instead, you can give a lot more credible feedback that way.
Nothing wrong here, this is the game Anet envisioned. #June 23 aka doomsday patch
Seriously, why are people complaining about unrelenting assault. I come across this attack all time when i swap to thief and it is the easiest thing to avoid. On revenant a good number of people avoided the damage, but there were still a number of people that didnt, which made wonder if they forgot how to dodge.
If people are going to clamor for a nerf to an attack that can be easily negated by the “V” button then you might as well call out warrior hundred blades while you are at it. They are essentially the same, if you stand there panicking instead of dodging away, you will die. Things to note:
1. The attack’s damage is severely reduced if the target evades or blocks most of it.
2. Using it in a crowd means your intended target hardly takes any damage, you will have to position yourself properly, drag your target away from the crowd (if using sword offhand) then use the attack (assuming there arent anymore targets in the area)
I think at this point you will agree this is a L2P issue.
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Unrelenting assault…really? just dodge roll or block. People are actually countering this skill effectively already, you cant just use the attack whenever it is up. In fact that would put you on the fast track to respawn.
Surge of the mists is a really good attack that is completely necessary as it is, if you have your positioning right. If you miss most of the damage it can be a serious problem because you arent much of a threat afterwards till you weapon swap.
These changes you are suggesting is a direct attack on my build and i dare say i take this as a personal offense and an outrage.
This is what a class should be without stealth. If you want to see what the class looks like failing go attack a good Daredevil, unrelenting assault and SoTM will get you no where fast.
Considering you havent seen a Dragon hunter use traps or many Daredevils yet i would say you dont have enough experience yet to put the issues you are having on the class. Looks more like a l2p thing. But to be fair yes playing the elites using vanilla anything is quite difficult but not a complete mismatch.
Edit: I just realized im not using Acro with daredevil. It felt like i was, it seems you dont actually need acro anymore to be an acro thief. Makes me wonder what the entire point of destroying the line was for in the end, just to make it useless?
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Ticket scraps dont even need to be guaranteed. There should be other cool stuff you get when you open the boxes, even if its parts of something.
S/D is very weak compared to D/P now. You may live longer, but you contribute even less to a team fight due to a huge dps loss when taking acrobatics. If you are not taking acrobatics, you may as well just play a dagger spec since you will have bad sustain regardless of your weaponsets.
You can outplay people all day on an acrobatics S/D build – but you won’t kill them, while they will slowly kill you.
Dude acrobatics is life
I love playing P/P thieves that think they are Vash the stampede until they realize sliding by by ganking on unsuspecting people or killing casuals only gets them so far. Trust the forums, p/p is really bad. On thief I have to not use stealth most of the time to keep the fight moderately entertaining.
I have come across quite a lot of people that try to make it work, always the same, unload unload unload run into stealth after they nearly die then more unload. Even when i port out of range i sometimes still see the unload going. Lol.
In ranked all you need to do is carry stealth utilities then unload people that are fighting other people, then run when confronted. Sure you win but that doesnt make a very good weapon set. The better ones would toss in a dodge here and there but they are more concerned with doing damage and not canceling their unloads that they dont dodge most of the time just unload spam.
It really bothers me how a class can lack so much depth, HoT was supposed to be the time to do some really interesting stuff to the class mechanic but nope they dust off some old animations code, add an endurance bar and fit in some flat skills while turning everyone else into super saiyans. I mean have you seen the druid?
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Yeah… I’d like to say it was fun being there but…
Hope it gets some kind of message across, Doubt it though.
I think it will. I dont believe this has ever happened before, if it doesnt then the class should be handed over to a different set of devs.
1.) the devs have heavily implied that dodging all damage wont be possible
2.) toughness synergizes with healing, particularly healing by a healer build
They made daredevil to turn thief into a proper evasion class after killing Acro (just to make DD relevant btw). Now you say they imply that Daredevils wont be able to do what they were created to do? wait please tell me this is a joke. How exactly is toughness going to scale with thief’s health pool and mechanics that depend on avoiding damage in the first place.
Aside from Unload P/P is really useless.. You dont have any options, you cant be competing for damage or trading damage with anyone, headshot doesnt do anything in the grand scheme of things, sitting in black power for the occasional blind just gets you killed, so what is left is straight up unload spamming with a a lot of dodges and a high dependance on utilities (which means taking improvisation). At the end of the day you are left with deadly arts, acrobatics and critical strikes.
As bad as body shot is, would putting all the eggs in that basket be enough? Would only be a matter of time before the capabilities of the other classes make the set useless again if that was the only change.
The evading shot idea is pretty interesting but will it just get bad damage like flanking strike? because of it is then we will just have another S/D situation on our hands.
Well… at this point its obvious ANet is trying to force healers/support builds onto Raids. We’ll see if it happens, because ANet is notoriously bad (they know this too) so it is entirely possible that it won’t be the case, however, the dire situation is pretty much confirmed: no healing through DS will be a major hamper to Necro, basically solidifying that the only time we’ll be used is for solo content within raids, if that happens to be a thing.
Hopefully the base changes come around and fix this somehow, but I just don’t see how we’ll be wanted at this point. Not only do we not play well as far as offensively buffing our allies, but at this point our allies can’t even help us with entire builds in some cases.
Couldn’t agree more. We are becoming the PERFECT SELFISH character in a multiplayer game based on teamwork…. simply and plain wrong approach.
If at the end of the day the team wins and what needs to die dies then I am perfectly fine with being selfish as long as im not being punished for it.
A change to pistol directly means changing all the other pistol combinations which could cause problems. Changing the unload skill to have a flip over for more utility similar to Flanking strike could cause more problems than solutions. A really good trait only for P/P would make it being needed baseline.
Only thing i can think of is a trait that affects all mirror weapon sets (P/P, D/D). I would say ricochet as one trait on one line that affects all mirror sets (not just P/P) for offense and a defensive one that changes the number 4 and 5 skills.
D/D’s ricochet would have deadly blossom fling daggers that still bleed on evade with a chance to bounce and P/P would be what it was.
As for what the No. 4 and 5 would be, i got no idea.
EDIT: Not sure why i limited the change to just the 4 and 5. Would be better if it was just all of them affected by the trait. This way, condi pistol keep P/D the way it is and power can take P/P while avoiding being hindered by lack of defense and useless condition damage.
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Ive never seen anything like this on any MMORPG and ive been playing them since Runescape. You know you have failed creatively on a whole new level when you get mass demonstrations like this. Incredible.
1. Combine lead attacks and sleight of hand traits as a Grandmaster major then move endurance thief into trickery grandmaster minor
2. Replace guarded initiation with Escapists Absolution
3. Have all those modified dodges on Daredevil as a seperate special skill that can be swapped only for each other. Thief does the most damage at meleee range so why on earth would you have dodges that either reveal or create distance. While at it I would change the dash animation.
4. The expeditious dodger should be changed from swiftness on dodge to super speed on successful evade.
5. Swap vigorous recovery for evasive empowerment, or just remove vigorous recovery all together and have a different offensive trait for daredevil. The trait is pointless considering all the sources of vigor and endurance regen (with daredevil)
Right now there are 6 traits missing from DD . To replace them I would have traits that give unique effects like Necros Curropters Fervor, Mesmer Alacrity, Revenant Vicious Lacerations. Ill fill in what effect later
Steal Mechanic modifications like giving you the old feline grace for a period of time after you steal. Changing the the endurance gain on Brawlers tenactiy to something else.
Ill fill in the rest later
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In This Thread: People overreacting.
I love the new thief elite spec, and I think it’s great that it draws focus away from stealth and towards the other aspects of thief. Daredevil is the only elite spec I can confidently say I’m definitely going to pursue on any of my characters.
Are you new on thief? Cause we had an evasive playstyle based on dodge despite on rely on stealth, it was S/D with old acrobatics, more or less 1 yeand and half ago. Then S/D got nerfed and acrobatic reworked/nerfed with also vigor general nerf.
All this cause they intended bringing back with elite spec, others classes didn’t received this treatment.
That nerf hit my evade style extremely hard. Shortly before the patch i was so sure Anet would move away from stealth spamming on any class. I couldn’t have been more wrong.
Killing a playstyle just to make people wait for a clunky version of it many months later. Thats one of the most anti player, uncreative practices ive seen from a studio in my life.
For some reason they wanted to remove the old feline grace by all means necessary meanwhile that was what prevented thieves from always having to retreat. Then they bring us daredevil and tell us “…so you wont have to retreat as much” lmao