Guild Wars 2

tuman.6593:

Well of darkness is a joke, look at Nightfall(our greatsword 4th skill) – 4 pulses, cripple, blind, combo field, damage – 25s recharge time. And then look at well of darkness with 50 sec recharge lol

Well of darkness and Nightfall are very different in effectiveness. Night fall pulses every 2 seconds, WoD pulses every second. If you place WoD over Gravity well you can come out unscathed but doesnt work with NF.

The problem is while you are in gravity well you are also taking damage from mesmer weapons and clones.

Cogbyrn.7283:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Afya.5842:

Zurchin.8479:

after playing for awhile now ive found the reaper to be almost utterly useless in wvw and pvp, it is slow kitable and easily avoidable, I love what they tried to do but for me its a huge miss considering I look at wvw as endgame, if you want to play the new OP “must buy xpack” class then go for the rev hammer thrower. Ive played over 5000 hours on necro and to be ballparked into an even slower and dumber spec that everyone can run from and laugh at has just about drawn the last straw for me.

wouldn’t chill be good for frontline with soft CC? Need stab from ally but I imagine it to be a nice addition to the hard CC train. What am i missing

It will immediately get cleansed from all the group cleansing flying around. And without BB from allies now we can’t sustain ourselves in the Zerg as a front liner.

In roaming, with most roamers being thief, meaner, Nike warrior or elementalist, they’ll just run the moment you enter reaper shroud and use a leap of teleport since they’re no longer affected by chill. Even with RS 2, you won’t have enough range to catch them. Afterwards they’ll just kite you till you exit and then nuke you. Chill should really affect the range of movement abilities again, that change screwed us over. .

It sounds like people are adapting to Reaper, but you don’t want to adapt to their adaptation and further the evolution of the matchups.

Get busy adaptin’, or get busy dyin’.

Nothing gives me constipation more than this type of post. The guy has 5000 hours, this is not someone who just jumped into the class and is wondering what the F1 button does.

I think i have a way to solve this problem. Taunt, a high range (2k units) Aoe ground targeted taunt as well as a skill similar to a ward.

Ghotistyx.6942:

So then tell us O great Ragion, in your infinite wisdom to which we cannot even hope to attain, how you would beat a Dragonhunter, or are they so intimidating and powerful you either run away or die every time?

How would i beat drgonhunter? well it is always a close fight. Last two days i think all the pros came out but I would open with axe and rise. If my lf is too low i would use chilled to the bone to gain shock aura. and go for a pull/grave digger combo since im stubborn enough to force GS to work.

Should probably say that if that doesnt work then i would hope i have enough LF to stall then swap back to axe/dagger since it has doom and ice sigils. Can apply some bothersome conditions with that.

lol alright, just saying, it isnt theory crafting. Just the world of PvP.

On topic, for anti dragonhunter builds, I would probably say damage reduction to the max. Rise, Death magic (Putrid defense, Death nova), Curses(chilling darkness, weakening shroud) and ofcourse reaper. So you get:

-10% damage taken from poisoned foes
-10% damage from chilled foes
damage reduced from weakened foes
-50% from rise

I also run 2 sigil of doom and 1 sigil of ice to keep up the chill and poison without me having to do anything special everytime, the rest basically has to do with stuns, chills and condi transfers but the main thing is damage reduction. The damage you deal can still be significant for a power build with marauder despite no air and fire.

O Ramoth You dont seem to understand do you. I like your glass half full spirit though but i think the years of PvP have made me a realist. Best case scenario is 100% LF and guardian is out numbered. So what now? guard just places a trap, stealths and leaves you behind, which direction are you going to charge in? 3 second stealth not enough? lays another trap and stealths again.

If guard decides to fight you while you have 100% lf and not outnumbered well, you are going to lose a range battle and you wont want to take hp damage from LB so you will go into Reaper which doesnt have range . You will be forced to go melee to do better damage and so you charge, guard lays a trap, stealths and you eat a true shot. you take what 30% or more shroud damage? keep in mind you are already bleeding LF so the more the guard stealths and blocks your attacks the worse it is for you since you will not last long outside shroud. This isnt theory craft its just the truth about what we have been given.

If you are running a conditions tank build then maybe if you can get in a good burst quickly that hasnt been avoided sure but again, if you are using reaper, it is melee so in the end you will be forced to go meet the guard where there are traps waiting.

The whole class has been set up to put you at a disadvantage. Ticking clock on shroud, slow lf build especially if its not your focus with no way to protect yourself while you build up (i dont consider using hp to tank as protection even if damage is mitigated). Taking one skill to solve a problem just means you two more show up, why? because the class’ defences in the traits have no impact in the grand scheme of things. Plague sending is probably the only one that i will call significant, the rest? all just lead back to problems.

Ramoth.9064:

Ragion.2831:

Ramoth.9064:

Ragion.2831:

Ramoth.9064:

Rise will make a trap DH cry. Good positioning, and death’s charge will win you the day. Death’s charge destroys projectiles

While at it you can deaths charge your way into the traps.

Rise is a great skill regardless if you are up against DH or not. Trappers usually sit on their own traps,, and Rise can diffuse them

Sure if you are at range, but unless you are using staff or axe, you will be in melee. Even then Reaper is melee so if the guard is smart, you could be caught along side the shamblings

Nothing says the necromancer can’t be smart too. I’m trying to highlight that we have numerous tools to fight a DH with.

You use Rise at range, wait for the traps to go off, Deaths charge to his face. If he lays another trap your shroud can tank the worst part of it.

Lmao…first this is assuming we have enough shroud to begin with. What if its the start of the match? or you just burned LF in another fight? i guess the pro thing to do is wait for team and hope they take the heat off while we build LF

Those traps + LB do ALOT of damage and Guards have obscene amounts of stealth now so shamblings wont be attacking when we get slapped with true shot we wont see coming. We will burn LF we may or may not have just tanking one players burst. What if there are more players there focused on us which is pretty much what you would expect in a normal match. Position ourselves better? with what? Shroud charge our way through them after eating guardian traps? i dont think so.

The only way is to not get noticed by the guard and start doing damage from range with axe or staff and hope the guardian is not running much stability or blocks so at least the pulls may work.

Ramoth.9064:

Ragion.2831:

Ramoth.9064:

Rise will make a trap DH cry. Good positioning, and death’s charge will win you the day. Death’s charge destroys projectiles

While at it you can deaths charge your way into the traps.

Rise is a great skill regardless if you are up against DH or not. Trappers usually sit on their own traps,, and Rise can diffuse them

Sure if you are at range, but unless you are using staff or axe, you will be in melee. Even then Reaper is melee so if the guard is smart, you could be caught along side the shamblings

Ramoth.9064:

Rise will make a trap DH cry. Good positioning, and death’s charge will win you the day. Death’s charge destroys projectiles

While at it you can deaths charge your way into the traps.

Yes I cant dodge everything but thats why I run D/P and S/D. I also tend to use the environment. Necromancer is always at a disadvantage against this. The only prayer is if I get too greedy or necro makes a good number of successful hail mary plays. Basically guesses when im porting back in range with S/D instead of D/P if i used Infiltrators return and starts a high damage skill. Even then that doesnt guarantee an upper hand.

Ive tried the dhuumfire build and its nice damage but yes you are right direct damaged base weapons would only massage your target. Ive also tried ceslestial to compensate but the low crit is a problem and it takes too many slots to pull off both vulns stacking and might stacking. If you do manage it, your condi clear and/or movement speed will be atrocious.

Warscythes.9307:

Ragion.2831:

This is the latest GS build ive been testing in PvP. It definitely has been holding up better than the other 20 odd attempts but it still has the annoying issue of people who make it a point to stay out of the effective range with stealth, ports and what not. Also this 3 year old thing with necros not having access to their Death shroud at the start of the match. Really? in 2015? after all the class upgrades? We really dont need any more vulnerabilities as it is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnMbCt2glbCebC0biljBTKo1ByAx3wfYRMqnttCAA-TJxFABfXGogDBAAnBADeAAAA

The Rune is Superior Rune of surging (Gain Shock aura after using an elite skill)

@Warscythes you basically said evades arent a counter but they counter everything.

Because it is a general counter, just like the phrase how to deal with something in PvP? Just CC it, well guess what, CC deals with literally everything under the planet. You will always win if the other guy literally cannot control their character. Your argument to thief’s counter to condi is about as ridiculous as saying just be invincible because that’s what evade gives you, invincibility frames. You cannot achieve that.

Look if you say im wrong no problem but please explain why instead of using contradictory statements. Currently on my Daredevil I run a 5 skill category build 3 of them stun breaks. That is important because i also run Improvisation combined with Sleight of hand and swindlers equilibrium and ofcourse the evades from Daredevil. It is extremely rare for me to get pinned down if im paying attention.

If by some miracle an executioners scyth hits. I have 3 options to get out of it. Even if a mesmer shows up with power block, odds are i will get out of it, even if a warrior with Rampage shows up, again odds are i will still be able to retreat and pressure at least one of them, because after all the stun breaks i still have lots of evades and endurance regen to avoid any more CC attempts. Ofcourse this is all theoretical, the point is I have options.

This is the latest GS build ive been testing in PvP. It definitely has been holding up better than the other 20 odd attempts but it still has the annoying issue of people who make it a point to stay out of the effective range with stealth, ports and what not. Also this 3 year old thing with necros not having access to their Shroud at the start of the match. Really? in 2015? after all the class upgrades? We really dont need any more vulnerabilities as it is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAnYRnMbCt2glbCebC0biljBTKo1ByAx3wfYRMqnttCAA-TJxFABfXGogDBAAnBADeAAAA

The Rune is Superior Rune of surging (Gain Shock aura after using an elite skill)

@Warscythes you basically said evades arent a counter but they counter everything.

Warscythes.9307:

I don’t think the argument with the inbuilt ability to cover weakness really works mate. In the example you gave that thief is weak against condis, the counter really isn’t really not to get hit. Hell never getting hit is the counter to literally everything.

Lol, this statement contradicts itself. You just made my point.

Im not saying necro needs to suddenly be a speedster class. If they want to stick with making the class special with the Godzilla type routine, then sure by all means. But by doing that they should recognize that if there are going to be special rules in PKing with it then there should also be special rules for bringing it down.

Just as the title says, basically sends your team on a trip around the tower before going for a swim just to get started. Then the second part of the puzzle after the long pause near the beginning doesnt appear fully.

Silverkey.2078:

I personally think a soldier/crusader bruiser reaper, with full (or almost) shout is great. Just jump on mid and stay there until the end of times (basically). The sustain is quite high and damage too.

I avoided soldier reaper because no ferocity and no crit, the damage really is all that?

Jackalrat.5493:

Of course nobody actually going to use the greatsword in PvP.

S’a big foam noodle, and I’m super bitter about it.

I waited almost half a year for this moment, the moment when i can execute people with an oversized sword and they say its not for PvP? screw that, i dont care what i have to do i will make that weapon work.

Lol i love the smell of over dramatic players after a nerf session. I run Shiro/Glint ran it for a few hours today and didnt even notice the extent on the nerf till just now after reading about it.

And What do you mean glint heal doesnt heal for that much??

Yea initially i thought 5 secs on Phase Traversal was too long. I thought 3 would have been more appropriate. Also thought that the energy cost should be reduced to 15 if they were going with a CD. Personally i think it would have been smarter to start with these but well this is Anet when it comes to nerfs they go all out. The skill is still useful. A pain i can’t chase thieves as much across the map with ease but that would be selfish i suppose.

As a heavy Rev player i hate to admit it but these are good changes but dang they hurt.

Well of Darkness pulses every second so you will pretty much not get hit (well for the most part). Nightfall is every 2 seconds so useful but not that great

Ravezaar.4951:

Ragion.2831:

Ravezaar.4951:

Yes Hollts is great and he had 3 BWE’s to practice, 3 and thats it !!!! maybe give him and us some time before this conclusion.

The same can be said about those daredevils.

yea ofc it can but Hollts still wins 50% if not more so I dont get why Reaper isnt viable

Before we get carried away with who does what, the point im making is Necromancer has lack of options. The class might have individual skills that will help in many different situations but you cant use all of them at the same time and there is no playstyle that will help you individually cover for what you are missing if you choose to run some skills over others. This cannot be said about other classes.

Example is If you choose to run more life force regen skills and dont have space for Corrosive poison cloud, you lose projectile blocking defence Necro doesnt have the Shroud uptime to both tank and counter all the potential projectile damage and control, doesnt have the movement ability to better position itself and use the environment and doesnt have the sustain outside of Shroud to comfortably avoid pressure. Devs did not help at all by increasing damage potential on other classes and sustain of other classes while increasing traited Shroud cooldown.

The reason why Thieves and Revenants in a perfect scenario shutdown reaper is, those two classes can easily get in and out of Reapers effective range. Stuns wont work with Revenants stability and blocks (lets not even factor in Glint heal) and thief will just evade and just evade again, port, return, stealth and take its time at wearing down the Reaper.

@Holl Yes every class has its weaknesses BUT Every class has an in built ability to over come them. What would you say acro thief’s weakness is, condis? ok but for condis to be a weakness they have to hit. So its simple, just dont get hit. So since im already an acro thief, that is my objective already so weakness resolved. Revenant is the same thing. Unfortunately those are the only other two classes i have played extensively.

I have used a guardian a bit and i believe its weakness is speed? but that can be easily sorted with its leaps, teleports and “Retreat” without opening the build up to more weaknesses. I can keep going. Engineers, I dont know much about them but i believe they are weak to condis? They have a lot of blocks, invulns and high damage which they can stack without opening themselves up to more weakness.

With Reaper, you take one thing to solve a problem, you have another, try to solve that, you have another, it really doesnt end. The good thing about Reaper is if the attacks hit then it can be damaging for the maybe one or two victims. The AoE defence you speak of is LF? but we all know LF only goes so far when outnumberd even a little. Mesmers, Thieves, Revenant (just to name a few) have what they need to sort out their weaknesses AND handle out numbered fights. Does that seem equal to you?

Ravezaar.4951:

Yes Hollts is great and he had 3 BWE’s to practice, 3 and thats it !!!! maybe give him and us some time before this conclusion.

The same can be said about those daredevils.

Just a side note i should have mentioned earlier. It is entirely possible this is a learn to play issue, if you think that is the case please help me understand why, perhaps even post a build and explain how the build can cover its weaknesses indirectly. Please dont say positioning or help from teammates. Much appreciated.

The build im trying to create has to use Greatsword.

teonimesic.1403:

Disagree with OP. I created another post with my condi/hybrid build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvRAQJAWRnc0A12g92AG3A0bilgBLuIuEjiUXhvQvKKBEAKXA-TJhBwAAuEAU3fIzTAocZAA, and quite frankly I feel like Reaper is an awesome upgrade… Staff does lots of pressure at 1200 range now, and Reaper is amazing in close group fights…

Reaper definitely is an upgrade to necro but that isnt saying much considering Necro was the worst of the base professions before June 23rd.

Interesting build though, seems extremely risky. Low HP (for necro) light armour, and long heal CD. No ferocity so gravedigger is probably hitting 3ks instead of 7. I will agree with you that a well placed wall is useful but does the build have immediate damage to capitalize on it, because in my experience that is the most important thing for squishy builds. How is the sustain like from Parasitic contagion though? so does it compensate for the low armour at all? is there a significant difference if you dont use it.

It is true no build can directly counter everything, but there are many builds that can indirectly counter what they cant counter directly. Like heavy evading on a class that cant handle condis, indirectly counters condis. Unfortunately necro doesnt have the liberty of always being able to be in a good position to avoid a lot of the killer attacks. Just to run reaper and its shenanigans i had to drop Well of darkness, so what am i going to do against rampage or thief ganks?

Personally i hate staff, if i can avoid it i would. I tried the double energy, they are useful, especially for mesmer burst. It is likely what ever build I find miraculously works will use them and possibly Rune of the Daredevil

Robert Gee.9246:

Salamander.2504:

It looks like you increased the healing a bit to compensate for the change, which makes sense, but perhaps more importantly, did you guys consider scaling the lifeforce generation up from 1% to 1.5% for example?

We did consider increasing the lifeforce gain, but some preliminary tests showed that you could generate a very large amount of lifeforce from only a few skills so we didn’t end up increasing it. If the trait ends up under-performing in the future that’s probably the first place we’ll look for improvements.

Too much life force regen? for what type of build? because if it is life force regen focus, those already can give a significant amount of life force quickly but the build will still have very many gaping holes in it that can only be compensated for by face tanking.

Wouldn’t you agree that if your armor is low the easier life force can regenerate to handle all the pressure you cant easily avoid the better? Or is there an assumption that Necros dont or shouldn’t use low armour builds?

High armour Reaper (e.g Cavalier) with vulnerability stacking for crit takes too many resource slots to pull off which leads to very many gaping holes in that build like condi clear ,high damage projectile defense, good life force regen and movement speed. Don’t you agree?

Dead.5829:

I’m actually really curious why those who don’t like the class, and haven’t liked it for a long time, are still playing it? What is the draw?

As for Reaper, feels a little early to tell. I’d definitely like to see changes to axe, scepter, staff, and damage mods / active survival, but I don’t think anyone’s had enough time with the spec and matchups to determine it better or worse.

That is a GREAT question, see i really like this class, if i didnt i wouldnt bother with this topic at all. I like this class for two reasons; one i started with this class, learned the game on the class, got Dragon on this class, Alot of PvE on it too. So when i think about my time in gw2 its Necromancer that comes to mind.

The second reason is the class has a lot of depth to it, not sure how to explain it but using the class has a certain weight to it (and i dont mean its slowness which doesnt pay off at all)

Where it all goes wrong is that if there is something you need to overcome, you have nothing to do it with. With other classes, their defense actually negates everything. Revenant is the best example, without Mallyx its weak to condis but that doesnt matter because you can kite, block, evade so you can very quickly defend against that weakness. Necromancer is a different story, you have to first tank your weakness, really, its called a weakness for a reason if it could be tanked then it wouldnt be a weakness to begin with.

Ravezaar.4951:

Well thats your Opinion, and i dont share it but i guess ppl here have mastered the Reaper already.

I promise you, there is no Reaper alive that I or any experienced player can’t completely shutdown on a class like Thief or Revenant, Look at Holts fight with the Daredevil, Holts is a great player, but notice how much he struggles just to hit, the only thing that helped him was that the thieves made mistakes. Revenant is 10x worse, it can do 10k without you hitting at all.

Drayos.8759:

I use Greatsword, and dont have much problem landing the majority of my stuff, but then again Generally i spend Alot of my time in Reaper Shroud which does Attack ALOT faster haha.

So basically the only thing going for Reaper is spamming its Auto which only works on people who dont negate damage while in melee.

I was not expecting to be making this post, this is essentially a summary of my 3 years of playing this class. When i saw what the spec is, I was so excited by the new stuff and how much better than the base class it is that i made the mistake of assuming that better meant effective. During the beta i was more interested in Revenant so i should have caught this earlier.

So Ive been running Necro since release and as bad as it is with Shroud being treated as this almighty profession mechanic that can be kited around i still sometimes found ways to get around how optionless the whole class is. So in comes Reaper, shortened the range on everything but increased the damage potential, ok, so how is the lost range being compensated for? After a whole weekend and more than 20 builds later, I found nothing.

The truth of the matter is, in PvP what counts is how fast you are and how able you are at responding to fights that change very quickly. Can you immediately neutralize a ranger suddenly shooting at you from 1500 range while you are skirmishing with an engineer? Thief can, Revenant can, Mesmer can, even Guardian can but not Necro

Necro would have to first dodge, which is difficult with no endurance regen, use shroud and hope there is enough to tank the Ranger’s any number of high damage skills and have enough left over after you get there, if you get there . O wait, corrosive poison cloud, ok theres that, but its a rooted block. Ah hang on, theres deaths charge but the ranger is on a ledge and the range is 600. Ok ive got a pull on Greatsword with a 30 second cooldown that i have just managed not to need to pull the engineer I am already fighting so maybe I can drag the ranger, o, its 600 range. Ok lets do this, i mean this was the design plan right? we deaths charge near the ledge then use it, that will definitely work oh what do we have here, rangers gain stun immunity from pets. Fine, spec grasp, o hey it worked! oh wait what just happened, i cant see the ranger any more. So thats 4 skills, 4 skills just to handle a new opponent that ended up escaping . Meanwhile on revenant just 1, phase traversal, on Thief, too many options to count, on mesmer, just kill them at range if you dont want to bother with the several other options. list goes on and on.

A lot of people will say just stick by your team and you will be good, but does any other class have that same constraint? I have spent some time with Revenant and its quite the perfect class. Can cause so much chaos by itself without being dependant on what your team is doing. This goes for just about every other class (I wont even go into how Mesmer with chronomancer can avoid taking damage while killing anything for over 10 seconds straight) so why not Necro?

Revenant doesnt have the escapes some other classes have in PvP, there are no moas to use Phase traversal on if you are not holding up in the fight. No stealth, no blinks, it is basically fight or die and it is quite the beast at fighting, can respond to anything immediately so a well played Revenant that can avoid damage doesnt need to run. A well played necro is what? Life force management? but the class cannot handle fighting outside of shroud and cant gain lifeforce well in shroud so there will be too long periods of time where you have to slowly build life force while you are completely vulnerable to all the execution attacks. Even in Shroud, it doesnt take many attacks to completely lose it.

I was really looking forward to using Reaper, Greatsword, traitlines, all of it but after well over 20 builds and a whole weekend of testing and buying new runes, sigils and amulets nothing gives me the options needed to handle any PvP fight especially outnumbered ones. Personally had enough of this, i invested 3 years into the class, got fed up with the limitations then switched to acro thief last October (first time trying a new class) and was amazed at again the options I had on it, even more so on Revenant. I would love nothing better than to switch but I can’t since all my history is on Necro and will take a long time to do it again on another class.

My only suggestion to Anet on this matter since i’m honestly really tired of their flawed foundation for Necro is if the class can’t run then allow it to negate damage and effectively react to the threat, Necro cannot effectively react to range, ganks, kiting, stealth (still no reveal skill?), heavy evades, the long mesmer invulnerability while one shotting Shroud just to stealth afterwards, blind, and probably more i can’t remember. The only response you have given us to these things is shroud that naturally depletes very quickly and when taking heavy damage. On my thief i find reapers to be a complete joke, its worse on Revenant. The truly worst part of this is when traited, the shroud cooldown 3 years ago was 5 seconds, now its 7, next year i imagine you will just take out cooldown reduction completely.

Windsagio.1340:

If they banned folks for being kitteny and passive-aggressive there’d be no forums.

You guys kill me

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Except in this one it IS that way. They explicitly stated that the unlike most MMORPGs GW2 was designed to encourage you to play on an alt for end-game content. That was a large part of their thinking behind the branching personal story lines (a feature that ultimately failed). I don’t know any players who always play on the same character in this game.

LOL did they? as usual they do things they will later have to regret. You cant design a game like an MMORPG that allows players to breeze through the content, hop onto another toon and do it again other wise you would either have to be coming out with an expansion every year just to keep the older players engaged or hope that new players keep running through the gates.

They should have just allowed class merging.

It seems that Anet’s original design of skippable content has made people forget what an MMORPG is

style.6173:

Dhampyr.2813:

I expected horizontal progression. Elite specs were marketed as horizontal progression. Being a form of progression I expected to have achieve that progression, not be granted it for free.

I get what your saying, I really do but i think the train of thought was wrong

Horizontal progression is fine. Forcing people to spend points on trait lines that they do not want is a problem. 400 hero points is also way too many. This is the single largest anti alt decision that ANET has ever made.

Really bad move

Actually MMORPGS traditionally dont encourage making several characters. They are supposed to be about you living a second life, in a completely different world. You pick a character and you become that character. The content on these kind of games are supposed to take so long to complete that the very idea of alt swapping to do them again should be absurd.

A lot of people intuitively still feel this way. The character most people start on or have been through most of the game with is what they identify with. You might read a lot of people saying that they are going to re roll because their class has x or y issues but they will never feel the same way about the class they are swapping to as they do their original.

So it really doesnt matter how many points it takes and how elite specs are unlocked as long as it is a fun experience, fun to use the class and fun to play the content. What you guys should be more worried about is if the new content will give much more rewarding, challenging and entertaining experiences and not bedtime stories like the base game.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Cheby Shev.4671:

I agree that self-harming utility skills are bogus. Whatever novelty the corruption mechanic may have held once, it’s an unfair disadvantage in today’s game. There is NO bonus power.

Of course they have a disadvantage. They are used as balancing factors. Without the condi their cd shoots up. You can quite easily ignore the disadvantage though.

The wisdom is real

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRAsc5nnfNuNSuJ7JRJlVlsjyrS4SZWJorcskFPFhtb4ytDCUIdymOA-T1CFABEqEsYlctdQAoU9HAOBAC8AAEe/h00DEnmhEOCAMpcIAACwNjNbzAAA-w

This should do what you want it to do. The main thing to a celestial build is using too much celestial is bad. There is no build that will help you be effective at healing, damage and face tanking. If you try doing it all you will fail when up against something that can do a few of them well.

Explaining the build will take a lot of words but hopefully you get it.

Neither because they are both caster staves, What you want is pole staff with decent effects on it. When the dev was using nevermore on thief it just looked weird and very out of place.

Sagat.3285:

Ragion.2831:

Windler.4815:

Ragion.2831:

Windler.4815:

PvP, no necro should be using CPC. It’s suicide to use it in PvP and isn’t worth slotting when there’s better options. Especially, for signet cele build and power necro being top atm. Speaking purely about PvE, this skill gives necros much needed group utility. However, at the cost of your dps. Until condi is up to par with power, condis are unwelcome and don’t sync with the cleansing meta.

I pressured down 3 people including a ranger using CPC and well of darkness a few days ago. In the same match killed a pew pew ranger at full hp while I had less than 20% and no DS thanks to cpc. so saying cpc is suicidal is quite dramatic.

CPC right now is the hero we deserved.

It’s a little suicidal. You kill your dps for 6s. Is an ok reset, yes. That’s with any anti-projectile field. I’m just stating that CPC would be better as a well. Remove the self-harm bs.

I am almost certain that if this thing turned into a well, it will be 50 seconds base is that really what you want? Is that something you are willing to have happen when you can just transfer the weakness to apply weakness on targets outside the cloud who otherwise wouldnt be weakened? Unless you are saying applying weakness is not important.

You shouldn’t be surprised on how common weakness is especially vs necro, the base self harm is fine it’s the additional ones from MoC that have to go.

But the 33% is so nice, i imagine that number will be dropped to 20% adding 4 seconds to traited CPC. It is a better trade off i will give you that but reaper has no ranged pressure and cant port to ledges easily to kill mesmers, rangers, Dragon hunters and every other class that has a powerful ranged weapon (which i believe is everyone else).

Might just be me but i think its more valuable always having a projectile block up so you can dash into a better position when taking pew pew pressure (potentially from every other class in the game) than worrying about a few seconds of weakness you can deal with

Windler.4815:

Ragion.2831:

Windler.4815:

PvP, no necro should be using CPC. It’s suicide to use it in PvP and isn’t worth slotting when there’s better options. Especially, for signet cele build and power necro being top atm. Speaking purely about PvE, this skill gives necros much needed group utility. However, at the cost of your dps. Until condi is up to par with power, condis are unwelcome and don’t sync with the cleansing meta.

I pressured down 3 people including a ranger using CPC and well of darkness a few days ago. In the same match killed a pew pew ranger at full hp while I had less than 20% and no DS thanks to cpc. so saying cpc is suicidal is quite dramatic.

CPC right now is the hero we deserved.

It’s a little suicidal. You kill your dps for 6s. Is an ok reset, yes. That’s with any anti-projectile field. I’m just stating that CPC would be better as a well. Remove the self-harm bs.

I am almost certain that if this thing turned into a well, it will be 50 seconds base is that really what you want? Is that something you are willing to have happen when you can just transfer the weakness to apply weakness on targets outside the cloud who otherwise wouldnt be weakened? Unless you are saying applying weakness is not important.

Edit: Dunno why i thought Assassins prescence was something else. Thief DOES have an equivalent, its No quarter in crit strikes. Sure its not party wide but thiefs party support is different

Windler.4815:

PvP, no necro should be using CPC. It’s suicide to use it in PvP and isn’t worth slotting when there’s better options. Especially, for signet cele build and power necro being top atm. Speaking purely about PvE, this skill gives necros much needed group utility. However, at the cost of your dps. Until condi is up to par with power, condis are unwelcome and don’t sync with the cleansing meta.

I pressured down 3 people including a ranger using CPC and well of darkness a few days ago. In the same match killed a pew pew ranger at full hp while I had less than 20% and no DS thanks to cpc. so saying cpc is suicidal is quite dramatic.

CPC right now is the hero we deserved.

DTATL.9641:

Ragion.2831:

So you agree with me that at least in pvp this anti corruption movement doesnt apply since you will be taking transfers and conversions regardless of corruptions.

You don’t waste transfers on corruptions in pvp. You take the transfers to get rid of all the things other people throw at you. Yes, you could say as we probably have conditions on us anyway in pvp. But it’s not smart to afflict even more conditions onto us to risk not transferring the ones you really need to get rid of.
There are potential 13 different conditions were we can expect 8 be applied often. We can transfer 3 with D4&S4, 5 with signet and plague sending. The only removal we have is consume conditions(which consume all) and Shrouded Removal/Spiteful Renewal(which removes 1 condition/trigger)

You seem to be making the assumption that the class was designed to not be able to handle both corruptions and condi pressure from other players.

Necro is not guardian, if you cant take advantage of the 1 or 2 corruptions you are using as well as handle condition pressure while still able to effectively kill your target then necro might not be your class.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

On the other hand, Weakness is a very common condition to have on you in PvP, as is Cripple. If you are expecting those on you anyway, just use CPC and transfer both your self-inflicted stuff and whatever they did to you at the same time. No extra transfer slots used, but you got extra bang for your buck.

This guy gets it. Its all about skills timing.

spoj.9672:

Ragion.2831:

spoj.9672:

Ragion.2831:

The 20 sec cooldown is really nice tho (when traited). Most dont stand inside the thing so i always found it useful that i can still make the target weak by transferring the self weakness instead of hoping they stay inside the cloud.

Is this a bad thing? Really odd people have a problem with this skill when there are transfers all over the place. Definitely would take those self conditions i can transfer for the projectile block and so short a cooldown.

Thats exactly the problem. Ive lost count at the amount of times ive pointed this out.

Its bad design to force the use of other utilities/weapons just to use a utility skill without negatively affecting you. If we had a free transfer on shroud (regardless of build) then it would be a different story. But we dont. We have to actually take a tranfer or cleanse to be able to use corruption skills. Its restrictive and unfair. Very poorly designed. And quite simply corruptions simply arent anywhere near good enough to justify this concept.

So you want a stand alone skill, well dont be surprised if the cooldown is increased and possibly the duration reduced which would be a crying shame. To expect otherwise would be expecting to eat your cake and have it too.

Way i see it you are already going to carry condition conversions/transfers in the build (would be surprising if you arent) at any given moment in a fight you will be hit by conditions so you will be forced to transfer or convert condis regardless. Its not like you actually carry condi counters at the expense of your build. Therefore If there is anything forcing taking transfers its the existence of conditions itself not corruptions yes?

Erm maybe in PvP transfers are pretty much always going to be taken. But in PvE you take what is required. You wouldnt waste portions of your build just counteract a self harm mechanic. But you might want corruptions skills for their utility. So then you are stuck with the problem ive been pointing out…. Its broken design that no other class has to deal with.

So you agree with me that at least in pvp this anti corruption movement doesnt apply since you will be taking transfers and conversions regardless of corruptions.

Now in PVE take a look at the corruption skills:
BIP for party might, where would you need something like that, party content, raids and dungeons where you should be needing condi counters. If you dont need them and deliberately avoid taking them then that is a content design failure on Anets part. If you want solo might, there are non corruption alternatives so why take corruption?

Corrupt boon, pointless in PVE when there are several non corruption options that are on shorter CDs. You would only take this if you are using a condi build in which case you will be using weapons with condi transfers.

Plague in PVE on a non condi build? if it is a heavy condi build you will be taking plague sending. In any case i will still give this one to you because you cant actively do anything about the condis.

Epidemic, you will be running a condi build. Necro doesnt have great stacking so you will be taking transfers by default (off hand dagger and staff) and you will be transfering to deal more damage.

Consume conditions, not sure why take this when there are heals with similar base values on shorter cooldowns like your soul is mine if you arent getting hit by too many conditions. If you are taking condi pressure then you should be taking condi counters regardless of corruptions. If you do shorten the cooldown then you are either tossing DPS by going into curses or using condis in which case you will be taking transfers

spoj.9672:

Ragion.2831:

The 20 sec cooldown is really nice tho (when traited). Most dont stand inside the thing so i always found it useful that i can still make the target weak by transferring the self weakness instead of hoping they stay inside the cloud.

Is this a bad thing? Really odd people have a problem with this skill when there are transfers all over the place. Definitely would take those self conditions i can transfer for the projectile block and so short a cooldown.

Thats exactly the problem. Ive lost count at the amount of times ive pointed this out.

Its bad design to force the use of other utilities/weapons just to use a utility skill without negatively affecting you. If we had a free transfer on shroud (regardless of build) then it would be a different story. But we dont. We have to actually take a tranfer or cleanse to be able to use corruption skills. Its restrictive and unfair. Very poorly designed. And quite simply corruptions simply arent anywhere near good enough to justify this concept.

So you want a stand alone skill, well dont be surprised if the cooldown is increased and possibly the duration reduced which would be a crying shame. To expect otherwise would be expecting to eat your cake and have it too.

Way i see it you are already going to carry condition conversions/transfers in the build (would be surprising if you arent) at any given moment in a fight you will be hit by conditions so you will be forced to transfer or convert condis regardless. Its not like you actually carry condi counters at the expense of your build. Therefore If there is anything forcing taking transfers its the existence of conditions itself not corruptions yes?

The 20 sec cooldown is really nice tho (when traited). Most dont stand inside the thing so i always found it useful that i can still make the target weak by transferring the self weakness instead of hoping they stay inside the cloud.

Is this a bad thing? Really odd people have a problem with this skill when there are transfers all over the place. Definitely would take those self conditions i can transfer for the projectile block and so short a cooldown.

nekretaal.6485:

I’m begging for this now!

#Pleasefixaxe

Reaper has close to zero ranged pressure, and its best three weapons, Reaper shroud, greatsword, and dagger all do functionally the same thing.

Without Death Shroud 1, the spec is a sitting duck against kiters, melee CC, and range. Axe (and focus) need to be upgraded to “not pathetic,” or the spec is DoA in pvp.

(and while we’re at it scepter needs conditions to be changed to their previewed state (20% more scaling on bleed, poison and torment, 20% less on burning. Either that or scepter needs a big buff too).

These sort of statements are the result of too many youtube videos.

Greatsword, dagger and Reaper shroud do very different things.
- Greatsword is strait DPS with two attacks that try to compensate for its slow speed and range.
-Dagger is for sustaining yourself while doing damage
-Reaper shroud is for fighting multiple targets

Reaper doesnt need ranged damage pressure because you can have 2 pulls and 2 projectile blocks.

As for axe I dont know how it can be improved. The channel from axe 2 i find extremely useful against stealth classes. The cripple from axe 3 is really useful to me. The range and damage of the auto and channel is great against SB thieves and useful for times you dont want to charge into blobs of people. I have made my peace with the weapon but if they do improve it they should allow the no 3 skill to reveal.

So the problem isnt that you dont get rewarded for self inflicted condition by turning it into boons, heal or transferring for damage, its that those rewards arent enough?

looks like the effect some of you might be looking for is a trait that automatically turns you into a god when you put 2 stacks of bleeding on yourself.

Tman.6349:

Emapudapus.1307:

MoC makes also corruption spells instant? No more healinterupts <3.

That’s a bit much. Other players being able to counterplay is a good thing. Skills designed to directly counterplay our own build is a bad thing. :/

Actually no, being counterplayed is fine, whats bad is if there is no counterplay to the counterplay. This is why i think necro should have reveal skills and stealth reliant classes should no longer be stealth reliant.

Well of power and lyssa will keep up when you consider plague sending and off hand dagger. I only isolated those two to show that boon conversion is a strategy for necro.

Lets simplify things, here is an example of a build i would run that lets me do anything i want with conditions without losing the point of the build which is to be able to respond to as many scenarios as possible. I dont even bother running well of power on the actual build i just run well of darkness to deal with ganks and speedy or stun heavy builds.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdG1IHN0aj90gzNwfjDjhamCxQOQDioYIi/cAMAA-TJBFABC8EAEvMQN7PAwJBAA

My actual build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhdG1IHN0ajF1gzNwfjDjhamCxQOQDioYIi/cAMAA-TJBFABC8EAEvMQN7PAwJBAA

Here is celestial Reaper hybrid build for maximizing damage while using almost only corruptions. By the time you use both BIP and corrupt boon you will have met the requirements for Plague sending. You can easily deal with extra condtion pressure with consume conditions which is on a pretty short cooldown and send the vulns to the enemy with off hand dagger for extra crit chance, condi damage and direct damage or keep the conditions from BIP and CB for an extra 2340 heal then send the vulns with dagger. I think you would agree that the cd of dagger 4, plague sending and heal cd can keep up with condi pressure from both you and other targets

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArY3dnc0AV3gl3AubC83gFcBL+K+FHjQXtAQLIar1BGBA-TJBFwACeCA12fAaZAAnEAA

Lol this OP….lol, sigh why do week old players do this. The “Eye for an Eye” trait is exactly like Reapers protection even mesmer has a similar trait.

Unwavering avoidance is actually necessary since most of revenant has no stability. Also it seems you havent noticed that revenant has no vigor and generally has very limited endurance regen, one of which only has a chance to proc when hit, so stab on dodge isnt even remotely spammable. You talk about punishing after a mis timed dodge, wouldnt the punishment be hitting the target? if Rev’s dodge didnt work and endurance isnt regained that easily unless hit wouldnt that mean you have a longer window to hit your best attacks?

Misguided.5139:

mistsim.2748:

Herald shiro is god-tier OP and I haven’t seen any notes for its nerfs prior to release. it will either get smacked down in the new patch notes, or we’ll see it in the top tier meta comps along with the chrono for the first pvp season.

Posting the same thing in multiple threads doesn’t make it any more true. Herald/Shiro is going to get wrecked by Reaper and others. The game isn’t balanced around 1v1s.

I dont think youve seen a good Shiro/Glint. Ill just say that that set up has an answer to anything reaper does . Its not face roll some smart play and patience is required but reapers will have a hard time.

Cam Ron.4170:

Dhampyr.2813:

I believe in the beta weekends RS proced it on exit, same with all weapon swaps. DS does NOT proc weapon swaps

My guess is RS wont work on weapon swaps on release. Perhaps it was just quicker for them to code it as a hammer for now, but I find it strange and inconsistent for it to work on one but not both. As if there weren’t already enough reasons to go reaper lol.

My prediction: After 3 months of infatuation with the new specializations people will beg for old or “classic” weapons sets to be buffed/rework to compete with the new ones

Actually logically it makes sense, you are swapping weapons when you leave Reaper shroud, from melee scyth to what ever weapon you have. With Death shroud you arent equipping a weapon so you arent swapping when you leave it. Wow, i think i know what build to use now. I have to again hand it to Anet, didnt even see this one coming

Dude do you know what this means?!!

Bhawb the problem you are having isnt that Corruption design is bad its that you dont like the way Necro uses conditions to fight. There are so many things you can do with conditions on you that not only dont take away from a build but add to it.

If you make a low armour build with Spite and curses, you can get both a damage increase with the crit chance stacking, a free transfer and better and faster immediate heals with consume conditions and master of corruption traits which is what you will need for any build that cant take much of a hit. On the same lines you can also gain increased damage from traits like close to death, so what do you lose?

If you take Death magic you can cleanse the self conditions outright or transfer them for Corruptors fervour stacking bonuses which only just boosts the tanky side of the build

Blood magic, you can focus on converting conditions to boons with well of power and lyssa runes. You dont lose anything there, you arent hindered by having more boons especially with the new Blighter’s boon trait. In fact they are both excellent for counter attacking. Stun break with well of power, stay immune to blind and cast your “chilled to the bone” or cast chilled to the bone when you take a condi burst to cleanse and counter at the same time.

You have to really try to avoid all the gains from using conditions on you and if you do manage it chances are it will be a bad build. So you have two choices, make a bad build or make your build better by using conditions

Bhawb.7408:

Step 1) Remove all self-harm from corruptions
Step 2) Make Blood is Power worth taking ever
Step 3) Make Master of Corruption totally different
Step 4) Recycle self-harm as an elite spec

There are quite a lot of transfers, i think the self harm with the number of transfers is pretty interesting design. Think about it, if you were to design something else for corruptions and you wanted it to be not the usual “X skills are reduced by X%” how would you do it in a way to fit the whole corruptions theme?

You take your off hand dagger, you take the plague sending trait, you can take plague signet, or you can take boon conversion stuff like well of power or lyssa runes which synergizes well with Blighter’s boon.