Guild Wars 2

Durzlla.6295:

Leuca.5732:

Durzlla.6295:

i’m going to give you this tidbit of info… USE A DAZE OR STUN ON THE PET, it shuts them up instantly and makes them easy pickings, i know i’ve gotten into so many downed ranger vs ranger battles underwater, won every one of them because i’d wait until after they use their lightning flash before using Lick Wounds and then daze their pet so he can’t heal them… so many “Wtf how u outheal? hax!!”

I’ve had my pet be dazed, knocked back, sunk, etc and still had it come back to keep on ressing, at least underwater.

this is underwater, you gotta daze or stun the pet, pulls, knock backs, launches etc WILL NOT STOP HIM.

Ele’s don’t have stuns nor dazes underwater on demand, what do?

(air 5 won’t work)

In fact, I don’t think many classes have stuns or dazes underwater…

Fuzzion.2504:

Razor.6392:

Ele NEEDS RtL to survive.

Glass ele needs rtl. We have 10-11k base hp for crying out loud.

First, you dont have to go pure bunker or pure glass.Go Hybrid like me

I have ~20k hp with 37%crit and 47%crit damage after food,sigil boost and oil.

Regarding RTL, it was already nerfed. RTL to escape and RTL to catch are very important. I highly doubt they will touch RTL to be honest.

that doesn’t apply to spvp tho.

Ele NEEDS RtL to survive.

RtL on top of bunker-like survivability is broken, but let’s think for a little.

Nerf RtL along with the bunker fotm build = kill ele’s as a whole.
Nerf bunker fotm build only = other builds can remain viable at least.

Glass ele needs rtl. We have 10-11k base hp for crying out loud.

Harrywinky.8632:

i´m talking about ranger downed and drowned state need rework for lick wounds since it doesn´t work half of the times. Along 2k+ matches with my ranger is enough to test nº3 usage and reliance.

You have played against very few rangers.

/thread plz lol

^ Ranger abusing downed state underwater.

It’s hilariously broken in any way you look at it.

I’m starting to hate anything related to the AC dungeon and PVT stats.

Everytime I hear or read about it, the word “newb” echoes in my head.

Forget about condition damage and get arcane wave / mist form / arcane shield. You’re gonna need them if you go full glass.

Fire trait line is a noob trap. The only weapon where it’s worth to prioritize fire is staff (maybe scepter), and the cast times for all their spells are very low. Without boon duration your might stacks (pyromancer puissance) won’t last that much anyway.

At most have 10 points in the fire trait line, at least 20 in air, 15 in water (pretty much mandatory, and you can get the vital striking trait) and then decide what to do with the rest of your straits (at least 10 in arcana is recommended, I have 30)

Idk why would you go d/d for a c. dmg build. Isn’t scepter or staff much better?

inb4 moved to suggestions

K, will do .

Bought 5x fine transmutation stones with gems and received nothing.

No mail after relogging, switching chars, changing zones, or anything you could think of.

I bought the gems and the stones while inside an instance (chantry of secrets), maybe that has something to do with it?

How do I send a support ticket? Is this the place? “https://en.support.guildwars2.com/app/utils/create_account/redirect/account%252Foverview”

Thank you in advance for the answers.

I find aurashare to be useless tbh, other classes can give fury to the group. I have never really played other professions but I find myself with fury quite often.

Aurashare only shines in pvp.

Very simple answer: No.

Just like in some other popular MOBA, this game is not balanced to have only 3 people per team.

Maybe for a deathmatch. But 3v3 conquest? (the only mode we have atm), Some people would simply NEVER die. There are bunkers that are hard enough to kill 1v5, Imagine 1v3.

It’s kinda low.

At least in hotjoin, the first 10 servers are usually filled, and the next 20 are 50% full more or less. The rest of them have maybe 30 people on them put together.

So that’s like 400 people… from all the servers (not sure if it includes EU, probably not).

tpvp I guess has like 20 teams going at it at least? and twice the amount at nights?

Anyway, random guesses aside, it’s pretty dead for a game this big. the pve /wvw crew outnumbers it by a lot. Not even 10:1 would be a fair comparison.

Personally I do:
1. Dragon’s tooth
2. Move to where it’s about to fall really quick (or you could already be in melee range)
3. Ring of fire under the dragon’s tooth right before it falls
4. faceroll arcane wave -> phoenix -> switch earth -> dodge roll -> earthquake

free +15 stacks! Attuning to fire gives 1 and using glyph while in fire (not recommended unless you need it) also gives 1. On top of the boon duration and sigil of battle, you can consistently keep 20plus stacks all the time as long as you keep switching.

Arcane shield helps to do this when it’s too risky

PUG’s are a gamble. While I would never turn down a skilled level 70ish (or whatever level is appropiate for X dungeon), you want to take the least risks when forming a group. Because you don’t know how skilled they are, it’s just a pick up group.

Nothing personal, really.

Solo.9027:

If you examine the profession closely, Ele really only use daggers as a focusing device

ANet, hire this man.

divinity .

NdranC.5107:

Razor.6392:

In case you didn’t notice, OP already mentioned that he pulled off full berserker mesmer, so he actually has experience on being glass with a light armor class.

I believe ele’s have equal survivability compared to a mesmer, so it’s pointless to go PVT.

Here’s a damage chart I made just for you, I was using the highest damage buffs (with my current setup, I didn’t respec to 30/30/0/0/10 or anything), and was killing solo at orr (so no 25 vuln stacks).

I’m not bragging, but the way you typed back then you made it seem like those numbers are actually impossible to achieve and well you’re wrong. Now tell me how much damage do you do on your pvt whatever gear? I rarely get downed or die in dungeons, so don’t even go there.

Numbers are quite good, but what buffs are you running? I use a mixture of berserker/knights with only 52% crit dmg and my churning earth does around 8-9k in fractals 30+ with 20+ stacks of might, so i guess that specific number is without might?

I had around 10-13 might for that churning earth I think.

I was using the +200 power after getting a kill for 30s (10% crit dmg) and 25 stacks on my sigil of bloodlust.

This was solo tho, in groups it’s even higher due to the vuln stacks.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Why avoid signets? They are quite useful if fully traited, and their passive bonus is especially useful at lower levels.

Signet of Fire inflicts decent burning damage on a short cooldown and offers a passive boost to precision.

Signet of Water is more useful past level 40, when monsters start dealing out more conditions, as its passive ability removes a condition from you (on a 10 sec cooldown). The active ability is a short chill effect, which is useful if you want to keep foes at a distance.

Signet of Air is a passive speed boost. Great for jumping puzzles and running around in cities, as well as PvP. The active ability (small area blind centered on a single target) is less stellar.

Signet of Earth provides a passive bonus to toughness, which is great for survivability at low levels, as it reduces incoming damage. The activated ability is an immobilize effect, which is useful in emergencies, when you want to run away from something.

Fully traited (30 trait points in earth), signets become even more useful. I don’t use them in WvW (except Signet of Air), and I don’t play sPvP, but in open world PvE, dungeons and fractals, I rarely have less than two signets on my utility bar.

(Signet of Restoration, the healing skill, is a different story. It provides an underwhelming heal, but also has the passive effect of giving small heals each time you use a skill. There is an entire debate on whether it is better than Glyph of Elemental Harmony for the healing slot. Check this forum for a thread with “Signet of Restoration” in the title. It may have dropped off page 1 by now.)

I made that thread and yeah, signets are mostly useless.

I have to admit when I first started I took signet of fire up until level 70ish or so (maybe higher, not sure), the burning is really good when soloing a monster, and the passive gives huge amount of crit chance early on.

All the other signets, however, are outclassed. Even in pvp Cantrips, glyphs and arcane spells are just so much better both offensively and defensively imho.

About the signet of restoration… perhaps that’s the only signet that is not unviable in end game builds, however you seem to instantly discard it -_-

Oh and 30 in earth doesn’t justify taking signets. Even with that trait, the other utility spells are still better.

Kodiak.3281:

Winds.3087:

I was running with full berserker elementalist some time ago and he was dying from sneeze, so his dps was nearly equal to mine in full clerics. In my opinion, berserkers is for those who know encounter and class like their own pockets, clerics is for people who like to disregard “we don’t have healers”.

and pvt is for www

That’s always been my viewpoint: Give people a launching point and let them go from there.

I mean personally I’m always trying new mixtures of traits, specs, skills and gear. I mean realistically other than upgrading Ascended items there isn’t much to spend money on if you don’t want a Legendary. Even then most of that gear is buyable with dungeon tokens. I also know boss fights and when to adjust my gear and play style and what I can and can’t get away with.

However if you get someone who’s coming to the forums asking they’re most likely not on this same level of familiarity with the class yet. In general I feel it’s best to give these people a mixture of offense and defense and let them adjust from there as needed even if in this case they’re asking purely about DPS. Without DPS meters you have to give people visuals. They can visually see the boons. They can visually see them melting opponents. They can also visually see you lying on the ground dead most of the time because you didn’t know how to pull off zerk gear in zerk spec some guy on the forums wanted to brag that’s what he does.

In case you didn’t notice, OP already mentioned that he pulled off full berserker mesmer, so he actually has experience on being glass with a light armor class.

I believe ele’s have equal survivability compared to a mesmer, so it’s pointless to go PVT.

Here’s a damage chart I made just for you, I was using the highest damage buffs (with my current setup, I didn’t respec to 30/30/0/0/10 or anything), and was killing solo at orr (so no 25 vuln stacks).

I’m not bragging, but the way you typed back then you made it seem like those numbers are actually impossible to achieve and well you’re wrong. Now tell me how much damage do you do on your pvt whatever gear? I rarely get downed or die in dungeons, so don’t even go there.

Nah, it’s not hard.

trigger genious.6583:

Please tell me one thing that is op on necro.

Flesh golem

Rekuja.6318:

I recorded myself crafting… try and tell me this doesn’t sound erotic :\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTBCVgoWunI

mmmmmm

Didn’t read, I just want a right click → duel option.

And no I didn’t even play WoW either, or any game with that mechanic.

Agreed with the op. Bit over the top atm.

Kodiak.3281:

Drawing Guy.3701:

I’m curious as to how D/D can outdps a warrior… a warrior can just sit and spam axe 1 and average over 6k per second. 100B + WW + axe or rifle filler can beat that. If a D/D can beat that, there’s zero reason to be running warrior over ele. D=

Don’t you see, that’s the fun bit of it all! We can all quote random numbers and make wild proclamations and no one ever has any way to back it up! If anyone ever calls you on it, all you gotta do is call them a noob who doesn’t know what they are talking about and you never have to actually prove anything! Just keep the numbers high but somewhat within reason and you can totally get away with it.

4 warrior and a mesmer combo? That’s for noobs. It’s all about the 5 Ele groups all able to dish out 8000 DPS each and each able to stack might to 25 while healing for 3000 on demand in berserker gear with permanent of every other boon while being immune to conditions. Don’t know how to do it? Don’t be a noob. Want a video of it? You ain’t worth the time to make a video. I’m too busy DPSing to take a screen shot of my numbers let alone a video. I dare you to disprove anything I just said!

You know… there has to be a reason behind mockery, that’s how it usually goes. My guess is that you actually think that I made those numbers up, and I’m a big liar (otherwise your blatant sarcasm tone would hold no purpose).

All of what I said is true, but you win, I’ll waste my time to take some screenshots, since apparently what I said is so extremely hard to believe that I can’t blame you for doubting me! (I don’t wanna imagine what numbers you pull off with your super PVT build for you to doubt me so much)

Daharahj.1325:

This was a quick test in Orr, no might stacks or food. So Razor’s numbers were pretty accurate, simplified even.

http://imgur.com/Q1cHXYB

Gotta love smartasses.

Yeah, I made that on average but it usually goes higher depending on vulnerability stacks and other factors.

golantrevize.2394:

I use mist form, lightning flash and arcane blast for combos.

arcane blast… do you mean arcane wave maybe?

arcane wave >>>>>>> arcane blast

Not sure if this happens to anyone else, but sometimes the audio bugs out after skipping the bridge bonus event, and you keep hearing the same lines until you kill the final boss:

“listen, I think we got more spies…”
“for… the… tribune”

(I think that’s what they say lol)

Fix? It’s kinda funny but it has to go!

Looks good, I use exactly the same traits with the only difference that I have 25 in air and 15 in water.

Which utility spells are you using?

Good players consistently reach the top scores. I fail to see how “they focus fired me nothing I could do” even happens, unless you’re never paying attention to your surroundings.

Ignore teh pvt nubs, just go full berserker’s. If you’ve done it on your mesmer (nice gear worth 3k~ gold btw), then you can do it on an elementalist.

As an ele you can heal your group and provide them with lots of boons (might, regen, protection. Fury and swiftness only if you go 30 into water).

My current pve build is 0/25/0/15/30 (2k power, 57% crit chance and 105% crit dmg) and I couldn’t be happier with it. I constantly switch through weapons depending on the encounter, but for boss fights I tend to prioritize S/D. It’s just so fun to give 20+ might stacks to your party on your own! (with sigil of battle you reach 25 easily).

I rarely use staff for boss fights, I mostly just pull it out when there are a lot of trash mobs that need to be kited / aoe’d and fought from far away, or simply when I need the range or the reflecting aura (earth 3).

S/D is great for the reasons I’ve explained.

D/D is point blank aoe, it has the strongest autoattacks out of all the ele weps and some sick, instant burst. And it’s the most fun too! Stacking might with d/d is also easy but less effective than s/d.

Some numbers off the top of my head:

Dragon tooth’s damage on a crit: 6000 on average
Fire grab’s damage on a crit: 8000 on average
Lightning whip’s damage on a crit: 2000 x2 on average
Churning earth’s damage on a crit: 7000 on average

Well, those seem like harsh nerfs but I think eles will receive much worse imho…

I hope you enjoy those.

So, reading these boards for the last few days, I think it’s the general consensus and everyone has already admitted that elementalists are imbalanced (because of 1 build).

They’re “unkillable”, they do “too much damage”, they have “too many heals and condition removals” and they are “far too mobile”.

All of that can be valid, however, when it came to reading the proposed nerfs by some of the valuable member of this community… I felt the need to make a thread to propose my own, as an elementalist player.

Traits:

1. Swap earth’s embrace from earth III (free armor of earth at 50% hp) for earth VII strength of stone (+10% damage while attuned to earth).

2. Nerf armor of earth duration to 5 seconds from 6, since everyone runs 30 on arcana, the boon duration will still be high.

3. Instead of destroying zephyr’s boon, swap it for some 2nd tier trait in the air trait line (+10% damage in air comes to mind).

4. Soothing disruption (water III) changed: cantrips no longer give regeneration or vigor. Using a cantrip now restores 50% endurance and increases healing power by 250 for 10 seconds (does not stack, the duration of the buff refreshes)

5 Air VII (Arcane lightning) now grants an extra 10% critical damage for 10 seconds when using an arcane skill (up from 3%)

6. Removed Air V (soothing winds, 5% of precision to healing), replaced by tempest defense (“Grandmaster” trait XI). An actual grandmaster trait is implemented in it’s place.

7. Fire III or Fire 25 removed (they both consist in inflicting 5% bonus damage on burning foes), one of those now gives an extra 8% damage to burning foes, and a worthy trait is implemented in its place.
.
.
.
.

Weapon skills:

1. Nerf the base healing of weapon skills all around the board. From 1300 base to 1100 (attunement swap, evasive arcana, water trident), leave the ratios alone to compensate those that still want to go deep in the water trait line and/or healing power trinkets.

2. Water trident cooldown increased to 25 from 20, now it grants regeneration for 5 seconds. (to compensate for losing soothing disruption)

3. Shocking aura stun duration reduced to 0.75 from 1 second.

4. Ride the lightning cooldown increased to 16 from 15.

5. Lightning touch (air 2 d/d) weakness duration increased to 6 seconds from 5.

6. Chain lightning (staff 1) missile speed increased.

Well, mixed some random changes on top of the “gamebreaking” ones… how do you like it?

If the bunker ele is an issue, then why are you nerfing RtL? Are you forgetting that non-bunker builds actually need it so they can… you know, survive?

They just need to nerf the gimmicky water trait line, especially those two grandmaster traits. If people feel less inclined to go that deep in water, then these builds will most likely go away.

But please, ANet if you’re reading this, whatever you do, take small steps first. Harsh nerfs are never a good thing. If you’re gonna bother analyzing the metagame with these new weekly map rotations, then a massive nerf is not a good idea.

It’s very easy, even if you don’t use zephyr’s boon.

Staff:
Windborne speed
Eruption + magnetic aura + static field + arcane wave
Once you’re done with that, switch attunement to anything and then get back to air once it’s up, that way you’ll get even more swiftness (elemental attunement)

Daggers
Auras (water 4, air 3), Updraft (assuming you’re just running from X to Y, never waste it in spvp).

Glyph of elemental attunement on air attunement.

Staff
Pros: long range, best support, lots of control, combo fields and aoe in both pve and pvp.

Cons: helpless in close range combat (pvp), long cast times on spells, low mobility.

Mid skill cap, requires you to do some kiting and predict where to place your aoes, you also need good positioning to stay out of trouble while dealing damage. Ideal for dungeons.

Dagger/dagger
Pros: Best mobility (in the entire game perhaps), best potential in 1v1 for eles (pvp), Great instant burst damage, Best reliable and responsive autoattacks for an ele.

Cons: Low range (melee pretty much), low survivability for new players, low support compared to the other weapon combinations.

High skill cap, D/D’s longest range spell is 600, you pretty much have to be in melee range the entire time to do damage and that can be risky when playing an scholar class. Knowing the limits of the profession is advised before you can reliably equip D/D in dungeons and other high end content.

Anything + focus
Focus spells lean more on the supportive side, however, they are not that useful in PvE. Long cooldowns, single target crowd control and others are more suited for PvP (though they are kinda lacking there as well). Just skip focus imho.

Scepter+Dagger
Pros: Mix of middle and short range spells offers versatility in playstyle, huge amount of blast finishers, great burst (although predictable in pvp), decent mobility and support, most potential for condition damage in the ele class.

Cons: Lacks sustained aoe, subpar autoattacks, not much damage outside fire attunement.

Lower skill cap, it’s a great combination to start playing as an ele, very forgiving to play and versatile. You can buff yourself pretty good with the blast finishers (10+ stacks of might) and the free toughness shield in earth 2, you can also deal with pve pretty easily with 2 blinds, 2 aoe knockdowns and excellent burst on the fire attunement. You can even mash the air autoattack while moving backwards in circles and a monster won’t even touch you, if it does, you have your blind on demand that won’t interrupt your channel.

I play all 3 combinations, switching regularly according to the encounter. I hope this was helpful!

Edit: Use ALL the stances by the way, oh and avoid using signets for your utility spells.

Kodiak.3281:

zTales.4392:

I have a couple of realistic situations for ya’. This is what I would do, so tell me if you agree with it. Keep in mind I’m a D/D auramancer.

Let me just stop you there and requote what I already said on that topic:

Kodiak.3281:

I play many specs and use a variety of weapons. When I play as 0/10/0/30/30 D/D build I swap constantly. There’s numerous cross attunement combinations (mostly revolving around Fire and Earth) and useful utilities (Auras in Air and Water) in all 4 trees with this setup that you’d want to use just about in any scenario. This is pretty much the prime example of swapping around like a schizophrenic madman and what most people consider the “core” mechanic of the class

And in fact while playing said spec I do, as you say, “GO CRAZEH. Use everything as soon as it’s off cooldown!” A lot of time my game play revolves around starting in Water:

Frost Aura
Fire -> Breath -> Fire Grab
Ring of Fire -> (backup) Earth -> Dodge Roll -> Arcane Wave -> Knockdown -> Churning
Air -> Aura -> Weaken -> Auto till Arcane Wave back Up
Fire -> Breath -> Ring of Fire -> Earth -> Grasp -> Arcane Wave -> Churning
Air

So on and so forth really basically constantly swapping between all the attunements using cool downs and abilities to maximize damage and game play. I use Fire Grab early to keep an eye on my cool down for Earth 4 (since they both have 40s cool downs). If it’s down too early and I’m in Fire I use the Grasp combo to add in Fire Aura for an additional aura buffs from Zephyr’s Boon. Swap to Water as needed for healing or condition removal for me or allies.

That is because FOR THAT SPEC AND WEAPON that is the way to play. That doesn’t mean it’s that same game play style for every other spec and weapon combination we have.

Fair enough, then I guess it boils down to: Your staff build, playstyle and spec are bad.

I was getting 3-4 rares every fractal 10-19 before this patch… now I get 1 or 2 lol.

Kodiak.3281:

Razor.6392:

etc

This guy is your classic example of setting unrealistic expectations about the class and how it plays. He thinks you’re doing a service to anyone swapping to Water to heal someone even if you have zero points in healing. Or how gaining 3 stacks of Might to do an Eruption -> Lava Font combo is going to contribute more than the 10 seconds or so of significantly higher damage you could have been doing in Fire.

Long story short, you got the people who actually look at the numbers and look at the benefits and then you got people like him who just puke up the same advice they lapped someone else vomited all over them.

So much ignorance, it hurts.

For one, not everyone is a staff ele, I switch between s/d, d/d and staff for different encounters.

Two, not everyone runs 30/30/30/30/0 like you, where switching attunements usually locks you out of your last used element for like 16 seconds.

And three, not everything is raw damage. In this game every class can fulfill supportive roles, and believe it or not, a 1300 heal or a well timed blind, or even something as minimal as giving regen to your group, can be the difference between failure and success. And this is coming from a full dps spec elementalist.

But what would you know? I’m just sad that you chose this specific class when all you wanted to do was just damage and nothing more. Should have went thief or warrior.

No one else mentions ele?

I can buff 20+ stacks of might to my party on my own, I can heal and control the trash mobs like the best, and the damage I do is not bad at all!

Kodiak.3281:

etc

Ignore this guy and his bad advice. While he’s not entirely wrong in some parts, he mixes up things quite a bit and just ends up confusing people even more.

Bottom line is: What defines elementalists is being able to have the most amount of weapon skills available in game, and the versatility of their playstyles depending on which weapon or spec you’re using.

By using only 5 of the 20 skills available at a time, you’re only playing 1/4 of the class (or less, considering all the boons and combo fields / finishers that you’re missing out), and that’s not necessarily a good thing, no matter which spec you use (using a very bad spec doesn’t justify a bad playstyle to come along with it, as logical as it may sound).

Kodiak always makes it sound as if people simply argued that constantly switching attunements is mandatory even if there’s no reasoning behind doing that, but he’s wrong. No one is implying that you should mindlessly press ff123f213f24f4, it requires common sense, obviously, and that’s something you learn as you play ele.

a profession that does good damage, support, and manages to stay alive while everyone else goes down (skill-based mostly).

Guardians and eles in my opinion. (maybe warriors). all the other classes either provide little group utility, or rely on others too much.

plasmacutter.2709:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

TGSlasher.1458:

Now eles are getting nerfed for hiding in their “we don’t get 1 shot anymore” build.

i LOLed but it’s sad that this is pretty much true.

ANets devs all play thieves I think.

Despite a MUCH greater dependence upon trait synergy than thieves, you NEVER see threads like this one in the ele forums.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback

daydream.2938:

Dont let the door hit you on the way out.

I’ll use my refund money to register my car. Btw, i’m destroying all my gold, you’re not getting it.

can i have the rest of your stuff

This game (or mode) needs a competitive scene if you want people to have even an idea of who those names are.

At the moment, the gw2 pvp competitive scene… if there’s something worse than “non existent”, then that would be perfect to describe it.

ele’s base HP is one thing they will better have to buff after they destroy the class.

Majora.6028:

I was having a hard time picking a class after my Ranger. I was walking about in the Norn area and was inspired by an Elementalist. Usually, I wouldn’t even consider one. I hate swapping, it messes with my OCD. This Ele though, didn’t swap. She said she was pure fire. She had awesome damage, didn’t die often, and was just what I was looking for.

I was leveling my Ele, enjoying it VERY much, and it came up in Map Chat and people started insulting me, calling me a selfish kitten and saying that I’m and idiot for not swapping constantly.

Is it seriously that big of an issue? I feel like quitting now, I haven’t enjoyed the other classes, and now I’m being harassed and told that I won’t be able to play me class at all later if I don’t fix myself now.

You can play elementalist like that. Just know that you are not playing the class at even 25% of its potential, and that people in PUGs will usually yell at you in dungeons in case they notice (and they’re right to do so).

If none of that is a problem, then keep doing your thing.

I’ve always been a bow guy and I love this idea.

Currently only rangers and warriors have access to longbow, and in both it’s really subpar.

There must be some kind of reasoning behind this.

Maybe the heights will make it really hard to use RtL? Unless you want to die that is.

People also reset dredge and cliffside

…better nerf those too.

Out of that list only mesmers are op.