Actually less then 6 ppl. At one point I’ve been on a turret and was spamming #2 on a dragon every time cd was up, only 1 stack is removed. Stacks were going up faster then I could clear them with 12 sec cd on skill #2.
I thought the stacks went up as you had people on foot attacking him. At least, that’s what I noticed.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
- From what I’ve noticed, his buffs appear after he gets hit by players on foot. Meaning players have to AVOID just hitting him directly in large numbers, it won’t help the event.
- You need small groups guarding the ones on the turrets, otherwise they can get easily overwhelmed by mobs.
- Best suggestion I can think of is 4 turrets dealing with Teq using #2 to take off his stacks and #1 to hit him, and the other 2 using #3 to cancel out poison and #5 to heal allies.
This is all just for the first phase, btw.
Would telling south cannons to spam #1 and #2 and north cannons to spam #3 and #5 on zerg work?
As long as you can keep the zerg from…zerging anything but his helper mobs and the bone walls, it might work.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
- From what I’ve noticed, his buffs appear after he gets hit by players on foot. Meaning players have to AVOID just hitting him directly in large numbers, it won’t help the event.
- You need small groups guarding the ones on the turrets, otherwise they can get easily overwhelmed by mobs.
- Best suggestion I can think of is 4 turrets dealing with Teq using #2 to take off his stacks and #1 to hit him, and the other 2 using #3 to cancel out poison and #5 to heal allies.
This is all just for the first phase, btw.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
On topic: TL;DR Offer a counter without completely negating a traitline.
I don’t want to hear it from you thieves. You want something that completely negates a traitline and a bunch of skills? Okay, have our pets. If they die, the beastmaster traitline is shut down, and the actives for our signets are shut down. I don’t want to hear it.
You have 2 pets. When one dies you bring the other one out and wait for the first one to recover. Pretty sure you aren’t as screwed as you think.
You are when both of them are down, which is the same thing you guys are complaining about. Except it happens to rangers all the time…so really…think about us before you complain about it, since we’ve been dealing with it since the game launched.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
On topic: TL;DR Offer a counter without completely negating a traitline.
I don’t want to hear it from you thieves. You want something that completely negates a traitline and a bunch of skills? Okay, have our pets. If they die, the beastmaster traitline is shut down, and the actives for our signets are shut down. I don’t want to hear it.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Honestly? Stealth is a crutch, plain and simple. Learn to play without it, and that’s where the real skill takes places.
Thanks for the advice. Going to work on my no-stealth backstab thief in order to get some real skills.
Good. You shouldn’t rely on stealth to get you anywhere in the game. No other class does. Even those that have access to stealth have other options for when it’s on CD or they’re in Revealed.
Right over your head. There is no Backstab without stealth. Also, those classes that don’t use stealth are designed around not having stealth.
Mesmer has 3 traits and 4 skills pertaining to stealth; Engie has 1 skill, one trait and one combo; Ranger has 1 skill and 2 traits; and Thief has 5 skills, 2 combos, 14 traits and a class mechanic devoted to stealth.
I think I see your problem. D/D should be a high risk, high rewards setup. By adding a counter to stealth, isn’t that technically making the high risk part?
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Having thought a little more on the traiting for rangers its become obvious to me that traits need moving around the trees.
For example “Spotter” trait adds precision to your allies. Why is this in the marksmanship tree? This should clearly be in the Skirmishing tree where the main stat addition is, ya know, precision.
Another example is “Beastmasters Bond”; Again wth is this doing in the marksmanship tree? The name, the skill effect and its usage are clearly designed for the beastmaster tree.
Two obvious and clear examples of bad traiting layout for Rangers.
Spotter is in the Marksman tree because well…it’s what a Marskman does, it SPOTS things.
The Beastmaster one, I agree with. That’s a Beastmaster trait. I know they included it in the Ranger’s attack thing so zerker Rangers have some “get out of jail free” skills, but still…
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
1. Ascalon is near a desert, and happens to also have parts of it transformed by the brand. Think of it as the plains of Africa.
2. I blame that on the fanatical Flame Legion…and their obsessiveness with Baelfire (seriously, they talk so much about him that I think all of them love him in THAT way).
3. That was actually the fault of the Vizier who cast the forbidden spell which subsequently awoke Zhaitan while at the same time causing Orr to sink.
4. Get over it, Logan did.
5. You hate a military society? The Spartans are disappointed in you.
6. If you have a Blood Legion charr, you’ll know that the regular Charr hate them for this too…especially the females.
7. Why would you even care?
8. Compare the looks of any big cat species male to any female of the same species. That’s why.
9. Considering the ghosts attack ANYBODY, INCLUDING HUMANS who come near them, I can’t blame them for viewing the ghosts this way.
10. That…well, that one I blame on the camera system.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Buff in damage? Don’t need that. A buff in toughness and vitality (meaning HP) to make up for the less stealth? I’d agree to that if stealth is made less abundant in the class skills.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
This thread has essentially become a forum for suggestions on how to nerf thieves into the ground.
That’s what happens whenever somebody mentions the slightest bit of counterplay to a thief…the stealth abusing thieves come in and QQ that the thief class will become worthless after a single skill on a 40 second cooldown will be given the ability to give somebody in stealth reveal…a skill that requires A TARGET to use, with an effect that will last most likely the normal 3-4 seconds. It’s silly considering it’s one skill, a very buggy skill at that. Then they start to make different suggestions, and it turns into a thief subforum thread.
tl;dr version: QQing thieves caused this.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Wait…people actually notice armor clipping? Do you guys actually look at yourselves constantly instead of concentrating on the enemy?
Wait… you find the game so difficult at all times that you need to concentrate on the enemy at all times?
WvW…yes. I tend to concentrate mostly on endgame stuff. Though even when I was leveling I never noticed the clipping. I was too engrossed in how beautiful the regions were while running through them…while at the same time running for my life when needed to.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
You see what I mean though, some thieves are QQing, even though only ONE class is getting the counter.
“Everything needs atleast one counter” – Charak
Does any other class mechanic have a counter that outright disables the mechanic like Revealed does to Stealth, and the opponent controls whether/when to activate it?
Right. I didn’t think so.
Yes, Rangers…When you flat out kill their Pet.
But to answer your question, stealth is not your mechanic..When will you Thieves realize this.
Steal is….Stealth is just something you have similar to Rangers with Evade to avoid damage.
It is not an actual Mechanic you have though.
You are correct in that stealth is not a mechanic exclusive to thieves, 4 of the 8 classes have stealth access. However stealth attacks ARE a mechanic exclusive to thieves, and are completely disabled by an enemy controlled on demand revealed. No other class can have their exclusive abilities disabled like this.
Other then the Ranger, who can have his F2 Abilities completely disabled by the killing of his pet.
And for the guy who said damage is not a counter, It most certainly is a counter. Where you get the idea that killing a pet classes Pet isn’t a counter to them because its damage is completely mind boggling. In no MMO game is this not the counter to a Pet Class.
How did you stop a Bone dancer in DAOC? You killed his Pet
How did you Stop a hunter in WoW, You Kill his pet.
How did you stop a Necromancer in Rift, you killed his pet.
Killing the pet is the counter, In Guild Wars 2, This not only removes a large portion of the Rangers Damage, It removes passives like Empathetic Bond and Natural Healing if they spec for them. This is no different from a Thief being Revealed. Just because they’re adding an actual counter to Stealth in the game doesn’t mean you’re some how persecuted.
So attacking a rangers pet (that can be made invulnerable by the ranger) is the counter to rangers pet mechanics, but damaging and killing a thief in stealth is not a counter? It goes both ways, if damage is enough of a counter against rangers/pets, its enough of a counter against stealth.
Allow me to explain a similar annoyance and you’ll know how it works…imagine fighting an invisible boss in a dungeon. You can’t target him, so you don’t know where he is, he comes out of stealth for less than 4 seconds often, but then will stealth for long periods of time before attacking you, so you don’t know where it is, how to counter it, etc. Would you consider this unfair or fun?
If you answered no, well guess what, that’s how most classes feel playing against permastealth thieves. Face it, stealth needs a counter to avoid this annoyance. Personally I’d prefer for them to buff the defensive capabilities of the thief (higher toughness, HP, etc) while simultaneously nerfing access to stealth.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Is the mob density comparable to other MMOs? I’ve never played another one so I don’t know. But they do seem pretty thick on the ground.
Lol you have no idea. You should have cleared orr alone last year around launch like I did. There literally wasn’t time to go to map and waypoint before you were in combat. It was insane. They thinned them out after that.
This is so true. What made it worse was when you were a Ranger, and all the Risen would IGNORE your pet. It turned into a real “ignore enemies and run for your life!” scenario.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Now that dungeons are not worth farming, I’m stuck with a huge zerg of 80s running from champ to champ in Queensdale. Lord forbid you kill a champ out of the order they are running in. Lots of “nice” comments in Map chat if you do.
Chat was worse before the champ farm there if you ask me. Now that everyone is s busy running champ to champ it’s kinda mellowed out. You get the occasional kitten but you had that regardless.
Well, if my experience today on Borlis Pass is any example, there is now no chatter allowed on Queensdale /map chat if it doesn’t pertain to the Champion farm. Not at all a pleasant atmosphere.
If WvW is any indication of how the server is in general, I’d say get the hell out of that server, because it’s full of jerks and crappy people. In the very likely event that WvW isn’t a good indication, I’d say just keep talking in map chat and tell them “Shove off” whenever they start pulling that “map chat only for champion farming” crap.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
everything the OP said is right.
but it was 100% obvious close minded kids are going to take over this thread.
A lot of us aren’t taking him seriously because he has been away from the game for 7 MONTHS. A lot of things changed in those 7 months. Had he been continually playing this game for that long and then posted what he thought, we wouldn’t be this close minded.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I expected to see this the second I came into this thread, thieves acting like the sky is falling when a single skill gets the ability to force reveal on a thief. It’s most likely going to be the usual 3s. Oh, but they could spam it…yes, spam a skill that’s on a 40 second cooldown. Face it, it’s silly to QQ about a single skill that does what normally happens when you attack while in stealth.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
What’s funny is that if you manage to complete ANY hard JP with a charr, you’ve mastered that JP for every playable race in this game. I can pull off any JP with any race, just due to how much I’ve done them with my Charr.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
+1 for both of you. Both the Pet AI and the lack of a Perma-Store made me eventually decide to delete the Ranger I was working on (despite the humor/fun in having an Asura Ranger, with just about every pet larger than he was). Watching the Risen one-shot my pets in ‘A Light in the Darkness’ sealed his fate pretty fast after that.
I have a ton of respect for the Ranger players though; I found it way too restrictive to micro-manage a buggy follower (I wasn’t a big Drones fan in Eve either, for the same reason). We’ve have/had a few running around in guild though, and its still fun watching the class work; just not my ’cuppa.
Just do what I do…run a trap build. Your conditions do the majority of your damage, with the pet just serving some extra oomph. I’ve never really needed to micromanage my pet because I just treat it as some extra DPS that’s unreliable…other than the devourer and spider pets, which actually seem to do their jobs.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I don’t think anybody cared too much about it in sPvP. But in Dungeons and fractals, that vigor saved lives. WvW…well, it COULD help, but most of the time not, because of ZvZ combat.
I think there might be something else wrong with what your team is doing if you need healing spring to get through dungeons because of the vigor.
No, the vigor was a bonus. If I set it down, I was rezzing somebody or healing conditions off teammates, and often combined it with a blast finish for that extra heal. But certain classes DO need that vigor more than others…such as necromancers.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I don’t think anybody cared too much about it in sPvP. But in Dungeons and fractals, that vigor saved lives. WvW…well, it COULD help, but most of the time not, because of ZvZ combat.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
maybe i’m the only one to be happy for those changes…
remember that almost every time isn’t a good idea to wait your anemies attacks over your healing spring (look at necro’s marks and warrior’s 100b)so while before we got:
15 sec water field
1 clear condition every 3sec
3 sec regen every 3 sec for a total of 18sec regen now we get:
10 sec water field (1 less combo leap with gs = 1320 less hp without healing power)
1 clear condition every 2 sec
3 sec regen every 2 sec for a total of 18sec regen
the main difference i can notice is that while we lost a combo field (how many times you did it 2 times in pvp? seriously… 1 time was enough) but we gain a better condition remover and a stackable regen; while before we got regen if we were “over” the water field (3 sec every 3 sec) now we can “wait” 2 seconds and run away with 6sec stacked regen… in my opinion to be “free to run away” is a great thing for a class which must not be captured by enemies…
You forgot something there, let me fix it.
With Vigorous Renewal, you’d get the following.
15s Water Field
1 condition removal every 3s
3s Regen for every 3 second pulse for a total of 18s of regen
5s Vigor for every 3 second pulse for a total of 30s of vigor.
With the new way it works, you’ll get the following with Vigorous Renewal.
10s Water Field
1 condition removal every 2s
3s Regen for every 2 second pulse for a total of 18s of regen
5s Vigor ONLY FOR WHEN YOU FIRST PUT IT DOWN!
This is the thing everybody is having a problem with, which we all consider a nerf since that vigor only really found its use in PvE and WvW.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Just helped midnight find his replacement pet Grr and I noticed something that most people probably wouldn’t. When he’s fighting enemies he has some sortof explosion that’s pretty big that knocks back enemies when they hit him.
Now either this is an engineer mine (with a much larger explosion zone) or the racial skill similar to the toolbelt version of the Charr shrapnel mine with a much more effective explosion but it brought up a question.
Will you be improving some of the smaller racial skills damage ratios and effectiveness to further add to the choices to improve overall build diversity? Some of these skills would be really nice to be able to use effectively if A: they simply did the proper amount of damage B: their usefulness in the toolbelt was improved for engineers!
That may have been the Shrapnel Mine toolbelt version known as Booby Trap, if he’s an Engineer. Puts an explosive on yourself that goes off when you get hit by melee. The Battle Roar toolkit version, Invigorating Roar, is quite nice too, removing vulnerability and weakness while giving a 10 second vigor. Even Hidden Pistol’s toolkit version, Hidden Pistols is pretty awesome, as it’s the Charr Engineer’s version of the Thief’s Unload (albeit less powerful).
It’s rather odd how the regular Charr racial skills suck, but their toolkit versions are amazing.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I’ve been seeing a lot more overflows in EB, for every single world boss event. We had an overflow for Wurm, Golem, Fire Elemental, Maw, pretty much every world boss. I have a feeling it’s because people want those rare mats for the ascended stuff.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
All this BS about stealth needing a counter… there are counters to stealth… you just need to actually learn to use them.
The problem with thieves and stealth is…well, I’ll let these quotes do the talking for me.
“You can’t hit what you can’t see.” ~Walter Johnson
“You cannot dodge what you cannot see!” ~Gen
But to add to this, we need some REAL hard counters to stealth, something to get it off somebody. I really hope Sic ‘Em is changed to a pet damage increase for all its attacks for a certain amount of time, with the Reveal being an AoE around the pet of 900 range. If we can start seeing at least one skill that does that on at least half of the classes, you won’t see as much complaining from players about the ‘invincible’ thief.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
1. Lack of different game modes, such as team deathmatch, free-for-all, etc.
2. AFKers in the middle of a match (I seemed to constantly encounter them last time I played)
3. The lack of viable builds.
4. Being unable to change my look to whatever I want from the getgo (I have to unlock the PvP armor to change it).
5. The toxicity you’ll often see in sPvP matches with people insulting each other over nothing.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I understand what revealed is. My confusion is more, how does one target something they cannot target to apply reveal?
wow I’m baffled.
If they’re smart, it’ll be an AoE reveal and Sic ‘Em will be changed to instead just increase the damage of the pet for a certain amount of time. That’d be an easier fix, making it more of a “tap this for more pet damage and AoE reveal” than a “attack this creature and don’t do anything else”.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Ranger
Look at the longbow. For PvE players, Hunter’s Shot is all but useless. Stealth, when we’ve got the ability to fight from range while our pets tank, is worthless in PvE. Rapid Fire applying 10 stacks of vulnerability over time (one per shot) means it cannot benefit from the full stack of vulnerability. The old Hunter’s Shot applying all 10 stacks meant each shot from Rapid Fire could benefit from the extra damage. I’d recommend changing it back and giving Rangers stealth via a utility skill (if/when new skills are added to the game).
Easier change would be the following. Give #4 the 10 stack of vulnerability in addition to the knockback range the closer the enemy is. Means you have to choose whether to waste the possible knockback early from #4 for more damage or save it for when you actually need to get something away from you. Adds a bit of a tactical element to the skill.
Change Rapid Fire (#2), getting rid of the vulnerability on it and instead giving each shot for it the full damage one would expect from remaining at far range from the enemy. This increased damage to Rapid Fire makes it more useful overall. There, we’ve buffed the Longbow in a manner to where it’s more useful. /bows
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Nah, if anything they should be giving him praise because hopefully they’ll change their policy on how often and how transparent devs can be with us.
Besides, he didn’t insult Anet in his blog in the slightest. He’s just telling the truth. He’s even said he’s been with them for 10 years and finds them supportive and great to work for.
However, the fact they would stop Josh from posting as much as he did without giving us the reason why is not being that supportive of him. Had he not made that blog post, most of us would be thinking he no longer cared about what we think because he just stopped posting here. They should be encouraging their employees to talk with us more often, not encouraging them to talk to us less often and if he gets any type of punishment for that blog post, I’ll be disgusted with how Anet has treated him.
The developer interaction is feeding the controversy. It’s best he step back for a bit. Josh should have never responded to these little children complaining about the content in the first place.
Sure, so the trust issue can continue to the point where people say “kitten this noise” and just leave the game. I’m not joking, I’m seeing people leave the game due to the lack of developer interaction. I actually considered it for a bit as well.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
I like moving. Gw2 is not a game where you stand still ever.
Node/keep/tower defense says otherwise.
You’re going to stealth and die on a point? Lol, sorry I had to say that
“RANGER STEALTHED HE CANT MOVE LOLLOLOL AOE THAT SPOT”
Unless it’s really long duration and you like camping meta behind corners meta, thats what enemy teamspeak will sound like.
If it’s some sort of skill you can activate with the cooldown starting the second you exit it, I don’t see it being a problem. Hunter’s shot to running for 2 seconds to the skill would result in an unpredictable Ranger location. They’d have to start sweeping for Rangers along with Thieves and Mesmers (though it’d be easier to sweep for Rangers then because we’d be unable to move at all)
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Agreed. I haven’t noticed Josh posting around here the last few days, but this topic seems to suggest he’s been officially shut down by Anet or something…
He was. At least, that’s what a certain blog suggests.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
What I want to see is higher ups who aren’t so…idiotic. I’ve seen more than a fair share of problems with how they run things, and I foresee they may lose many customers in the months to come depending on how the newest monthly patches are, along with how they handle talking with players. We already have a serious trust issue with the mods due to the lack of communication, it will only take a little more to be the straw that breaks this camel’s back. Josh actually took care of that trust issue because we felt we were actually being listened to…and the issue is back BECAUSE the higher-ups won’t let him speak to us. That trust issue may be worse now because it tells us the higher-ups don’t care.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
