just pointing out necro’s fear is instant and mesmer has 3 secs cast time. but i agree . they should rework some steal skills.
30/30/0/0/10 thieves has only 14k hp, try to random hit when they stealth, or try to put some stack of bleed and they will die in 2 secs.
putting 2 signet in utility means you have no so many skills to stealth, so the thief is in danger if targeted.
watched the video:
17k hp, means some kind of balanced and not cannon glass spec. ghe doesnt use utility because they are signet, better leave them unused so they are more usefull.
in the first 3 mins he fight only 2v1 in his favor. everyone can be good doing that.
he escape every fight he can’t win easily. seemes legit
opponents are really dumb and ofc first map = 90% pugs(80%first timers, noob, 8v8; 20% nice players); 10% premades.
wow he attached a warrior with 40% hp under vengeance. cool.
mesmer 5%hp. still cool.
huuu a warrior full hp goes next to him and didnt care about him, should be a nice opponent team ofc. why didn’t he attack warrior? hmm interesting.
again spammed hs against a warrior who didnt care about him, really, what kind of tournament he found that time!!!! wow 50% hp and he finished initiative. cool.
SBROFL what kind of noob necro he beated. skill used: fear and maybe healing or a well? really
he attacked enemy downed. ok there are points. count as kill btw?
ok i stopped there because i have to go.
i love the video, i love the sarcasm he used, that’s all. no skill needed to do those things.
anet if you want to nerf thieves do it. really. do it i agree.
the community crying for thieves need nerf because they play 8v8 is so sad.
8v8 is just there to spend time pvping. if you need balancing stuff, go tournaments and cry about classes there.
“hue hue i want to pown everyone while i am eating, watching tv, but they stomped me. but i have 500 armor and 10k hp, i should be better. not fair, nerf nerf”
go play tournaments before starting these lame fights about nerfing stuff.
ridiculous
Five good players in any profession can beat pug groups in tournaments. You could have 5 thieves who are good players all running sword/dagger builds and still win.
so because you see a stream of a player who probably started playing 10 months ago at gw2, allow you to play his same build and playstyle and allow you to whine?
long time ago everyone used his own brain to be creative and build a character, now we need someone else that think for us.
if you can’t deal with only 1 stunbreak , put 2. if you can’t survive with 14k hp, change amulet. and so on. . .
what if, in the future, proplayers will say game is balanced as it is now? because usually, games are balanced by the highest level of playing possible, not at noob level.
sorry for my english
i can deal with 5mins BUT don’t let people wander all the map wasting tiume dueling before tourney. force them to stay at the start location with a closed gate and you will see a lot of “i am ready” button pressed
agree. as i stated since release, i can give anet time till day after tomorrow. a month(and some days) will be passed. they will have no excuses to not patch and balance and fix the game after that day…
anet stated they want fast fights, and players created bunker guardian.
i follow the state of anet “offence>defence” and puff, guardian 24/7 retaliation.
nice oxymoron.
lol at thief shortbow need a nerf because every thief use it..maybe because it gives us mobility and survivability?
so nerf every staff for mesmer because evey mesmer has a staff. nerf every shield because every warrior has one. . .
these are not suggestions, these are people who want to destroy a class. it is sad.
i am playing again mesmer since to win a tourney is less stressing playing mesmer than playing thief, well, also less entertaining but who cares, i need wins to have fun.
how can be quickness+hb the same of moa i dont understand, but w.e, sometimes i find some mesmer who know his class is a little over. this time i was unlucky
maxi maybe learn to understand that a good mesmer won’t show you his animation. he can decoy, or just sit in his aoe, than sometime when he wants he uses moa.
1200 range lich form.
hs spam is only for noobs who think spamming make you wun.
you can always try to go play tourney with thief and see hw easy is winning with hs spam.
it has no control on opponent.
“spamming” = no good player.
It doesn’t matter if you don’t spam mindlessly. Many people do it and succed, I’ve tried to do this and I succeded. If you want to play a thief in an higher level, that’s good, but don’t you feel frustrated knowing that people with half your skill performs just as good as you do (assuming you are good, of course)? That’s the point. You should learn your profession, know the traits, try builds, timing skills and than you should be effective. With thieves is not the case.
i could say the same when i face mesmers. for me thief is a pain in the a fighting a mesmer, while he just sit in his aoe with his illusions,stuns,chaos,conditions.
or watch thieves running after eles because his combo is 50% usefull against them.
but….game is still young, everyone still need to improve.
what about sharing equally the total score for all 5 members of a team instead of trying to find complicated calcualtions?
ie
a 200 pt
b 160 pt
c 150 pt
d 100 pt
e 90 pt
———————
tot 700 : 5 = 140 points each
ps: when ladder will come i prefer win a tourney doing zero points but being usefull than make 400points and lose always.
That’s why the thief is broken, as he is designed, he encourage people to mindless spamming skills. It is like an easymode professions for PvP.
i don’t spam mindlessly.
try to spam against a warrior and you will die in a sec.
a mesmer can use #2staff or F4 and gg thief
ranger can use #3? to avoid some damage
necro can DS,fear
guardian..has retaliation,hp pool,toughness etc
ele has breakstun,cond remove
thief has shadowstep,blind,infiltrators,daze
ps: i removed haste from build 2 weeks ago, when a good team left me to 0 in tournament because they knew how to deal with thieves.
if i could list all the things people don’t like about thief, the class won’t exist or would be a weaker warrior.
if it could possible to be dangerous spamming headshot or infiltrator’s i would use more skills.
but if i use sword and pistol i have
autoattack -cost 0: can i use it ok? normal damage
infiltrator’s -cost 3 recast 2: bit damage and immobilize on target. a lot of classes has immobilize for their skills no?
pistolwhip – cost 5: main source of damage
headshot – cost 4: bit damage daze
black powder – cost 6: bit damage 3secs aoe blind.
any suggestion about using these skills in fight? remember my pool of initiative is only 12(15 if traited)
for the record: pistol whip does dthe same normal damage more times a little bit faster with a 0.5secs stun.
except some stacking stealth, it last 3seconds – 4 traited – on thief, and mesmers are so strong not thanks to stealth. moreover, after revealt, a thief has 3 secs in which he cannot stealth again.
what is the purpose of a stealth revelator? because you die to a lot of backstab’s thieves?
do you play 8v8 or 5v5?
thanks
actually i take apart most thiefs that come for me just because im tanky enough to take it. Problem is not the thiefs damage but the way he provides it. Theres no “risk” for the reward he gets.
Stealth detection provides this risk.
the risk is the 14k hp 1.9k armor they have all game long forever and ever. as i wrote above after a steath a thief has to wait 3 secs to stealth again. for that kind of glasscannon is a huge time. they have to be sneaky.
cloack and dagger cost half of the initiative of the thief, even if it miss.
metagame in gw2 is smart players vs dumb players AT THE MOMENT (3caps words again lol)
you can win with every composition if your strategy suits it. caps lock, as you can see, is only to focus on 3 words. and yes, teams win because they are better players.
don’t know if you felt offensed by my post because i feel a little angriness, but maybe it is only me. if you don’t like answers to your threads, you should ask for them to be closed after you write.
except some stacking stealth, it last 3seconds – 4 traited – on thief, and mesmers are so strong not thanks to stealth. moreover, after revealt, a thief has 3 secs in which he cannot stealth again.
what is the purpose of a stealth revelator? because you die to a lot of backstab’s thieves?
do you play 8v8 or 5v5?
thanks
in your argumenti you ask for a big rework of entire game. i think it is impossible.
you talk about “In Guild Wars 2 PVP is nothing more than min/maxing of stats, traits, boons, conditions, elites, utilities, and healing; and requires little skill, and is more about optimization of points, and once a competitive player has learned the ins and outs of their profession, as well as other professions, GW2 turns into a game of RNG (Random Number Generating) granted no game is without faults, but to rely on 1st generation mechanics in the 21st century shows a lack of creativity.”
so you say that people who wins tourney win because of RNG ? so if 5 players rush together all 3 cap points they should always win, instead of finding a STRATEGY and a TEAM COMPOSITION?
the game is still new , there is no a metagame luckily. so i think as an argumenti it is invalid.
but thank for share your opinion
hoestly i would like it to be not allowed. but they are not breaking any rules, so i am sad to say that anet should do something to prevent it. how? don’t know.
think about a guild which can go with 16 people in spvp and farm -.-
as i would like mesmers to be toned down, but i won’t go around the forum whining for nerf.
sometime it happens i die to some quickness thief or war, i am not perfect. but i try to improve at least my reactions…
as thief i react fast enough to take only 6-8k damage max by another thief whipping. if i see he is under quickness, i wait for his PW to end then i go to him and i kill him because he can’t do much.
half HP vs a thief dead, i prefer half HP.
This game was not intended to blow people up in 2 seconds – that’s Rift PvP, not GW2 PvP.
dev said they want fights to be fast, so around 20-40 secs. that’s the gw2 pvp they intended.
as thief i react fast enough to take only 6-8k damage max by another thief whipping. if i see he is under quickness, i wait for his PW to end then i go to him and i kill him because he can’t do much.
half HP vs a thief dead, i prefer half HP.
Mesmer are not op, a lot of players that doesn’t play a mesmer or even do research on how to counter them feel their op. They just flood the forums to cry for nerf and wait for spoon-feeding solutions.
Why, 1st it a whole different class in mmo, not many other mmo have a clone producing profession except MOBA game. Clone producing is just as annoying as problematic to stealth which draws on more concentration, mental awareness and quick reflex to counter.
Just take me for example, i play a mesmer as a main. I too have a thief as an alt. I have no problem on my thief killing another mesmer(my thief is not using hasted pistolwhip or hearst seeker spam, instead it is a hybrid deathblossom condition crit build that utilize a lot of heals.). Why, because i know every single way a mesmer should be played and how would they set up their skills and combo.
Then i come to this forum and i see lots of players complaining about mesmers which play glass cannon build that hope to pawn everyone and then dance on your dead body after doing so.
I won’t tell you to L2P but learn to use your brains and think and figure a solution before flooding the forum to cry about something counterable.
TL:DR: Don’t use your brain to think or do some work, you deserve to get pawn.
this post is fun because:
you main a mesmer and declair mesmer is not op. don’t you say?
you play thief with the only build that can kill a mesmer, because conditions>mesmer.
what if you play a dps thief?what if you are other kind of roamers. ofc people go to the mists and switch. nice esport!!!!i am just figuring out about some gw2 caster which explain why it is possible in a esport to change everything in a match and between 2 matched of a tourney. but im going OT. sorry
Nyypsy: ofc there are attunements better for some role than others, but they are still 20 skills and for dps you can use all i assume. less damage maybe if not focus-specced, but still damage and i dont think cannonglass ele is the musthave in tourney.
hmm let’s say the do in the right way, i can deal with this. just hoping they dont nerf to death these 3 classes and make the rest op, or the game die.
The info does not help whatsoever. I used to main Mesmer and I ran a tanky shatter build. Play an engineer node defender. Out of any profession I probably have one of the better match ups other than thieves. I was dueling my friend on his Mesmer s,p/gs. Dueled him about 50 times I beat him probably twice. I tried destroying phantasms, but my condition build doesn’t let me destroy them In a timely manner. Phantasms are spread out because duelist and berserk er have different attack ranges. I can’t shoot through the massive amounts of clones even though I can spot the real one within .4 secs. I’m stunned and the illusions are shattered on me. While every so often being confused. If matters are not worse I’m slowly being worn down by bleeds by clones.
My friend is definitely a good Mesmer, but this is the only match up I can’t beat without luck or support. I’m also being shattered for 7k even though he’s hybrid through my 1800 toughness. The conclusion I’ve come to is that the only way to beat a Mesmer is to literally gib them with massive amounts of damage while avoiding most of it. That class is probably thieves.
I have recently actually found my necro is able to beat mesmer 3-4/10. Assuming they don’t have moa
a usual fight against mesmer:
infiltrator’s->pistol whip
mesmer use #2 staff ->i lost initiative
steal->pistol whip
mesmer use blink -> i lost initiative
chase+pistol whip or infiltrator’s x2+pistol whip
mesmer use mirror images→i have no more initiative
meanwhile i am sorrounded by illusions, prolly #5 staff, about 2-4 conditions on me. if i am lucky enough mesmer is on 50%hp. stun->healing->flurry->gg
why so much hate for necros? they are the best supporter/control character in the game. maybe their skill cap is higher than other classes because they don’t put all thier ability in the damage output. but necro is a great class if well used
- a random thief
Because Mesmer has all of the Necromancer’s best tools in better iterations, is harder to put down, has more presence around the map AND does a lot more damage!
Funfact: they also have more ways to go than just conditions.
i don’t like necro conditions and i didn’t mean that.
necro support is better than mesmers’ . wells, marks, signets.
necro control can be aoe. mesmer’s control not.
i am not saying necro is better, but far from being useless.
a full power tough vit necro has still the DS, so 2x health and if uses lich form he deals 4k damage to medium armor. not so low damage
report and ignore. easy and clean.
this is not internet. this is a game, where people want to relax and have fun. i dont have fun when people offends me. i report them, if anet think it is ok, they won’t be banned.
I’m not having all that much trouble with mesmers as a whole, I’ll be honest.
However, I do occasionally meet a mesmer’s who’s running that spec that gives him insane defensive abilities, while he’s literally tearing me down as if was he a glass cannon.
Except he’s not a glass cannon. He’s a cold hard iron-cannon.
That needs some addressing.
hoping you are a thief, can you pls pm me your build so i can try ?
appreciated
but when u face a tanky team you need to make them split and so you need to roam at their point. i can’t roam at their point if there is a mesmer because i lose the 1v1.
at trabuchet there are always mesmers because of the “mechanical issues about the class”, i can’t go there and die, helping only opponent team.
so what is the plan?maybe i can stop playing thief , but honestly i would prefer in some new thief build, right now i can’t find, or some fix to that mesmer’s superiority(?).
i know a lot of mesmers will flame me, but who cares, i look for mature suggestios, others are all reports :P
because firstly anet though about pve, which attract the basement of the community, then they will focus on pvp that it relatively smaller as community than pve’s community.
i repeat always : wait till 1/10/12, they will fix pvp. trust me :S
Wait until over 8 months ago?
What?
game released officually 28/08/12 today is not even a month passed since release. i repeat wait till first of november at least.
hmm i usually put dd/mm/yy.
Because i’m sure a theif doesn’t want to die to another theif who jumped them and they can’t get a target lock on before there already very hurt.
if it happens, and it happens, i blame me for being overplayed. as far as other thieves are outplayed by me.
this happens, but in tourney doesn’t count if i die to a thief, count if i keep a “node” more time than opponents. so it is fine if i died to have an advantage in points.
Beating a player through the use of skills is fine beating a player through bad interface or targeting issues is bad design. You still get one attack before the player locks on you and can react regardless you shouldn’t be able to slay a player because screen clutter doesnt allow him to target you before he’s dead.
it is called sneak attack , and thieves LIVE for them. it is an advantage for cannon glasses to hit confusing opponent who doesn’t know what is happening.
with your option, i sneak attack, you see my bar over the screen knowing im attacking you and u can react faster than with your usually reflections(?).
because firstly anet though about pve, which attract the basement of the community, then they will focus on pvp that it relatively smaller as community than pve’s community.
i repeat always : wait till 1/10/12, they will fix pvp. trust me :S
Because i’m sure a theif doesn’t want to die to another theif who jumped them and they can’t get a target lock on before there already very hurt.
if it happens, and it happens, i blame me for being overplayed. as far as other thieves are outplayed by me.
this happens, but in tourney doesn’t count if i die to a thief, count if i keep a “node” more time than opponents. so it is fine if i died to have an advantage in points.
Don’t play a glass-cannon. Hit the mesmer.
Win the fight.
as thief i can play using knight amulet instead of berseker and i gain armor and vit, but , as roamer, i lose 100% against decent mesmers because assiming we do same damage he has more hp and armor, assuming we have same hp and armor he soak better the damage and fight is always 2-3 vs me because of phantasm.
