Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I always get unstable connections at some timing, this is the tracert

Tracing route to 64.25.38-243.ncsoft.com [64.25.38.243]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms RT-N56U [192.168.1.1]
2 4 ms 4 ms 3 ms 1.128.75.138.unknown.m1.com.sg [138.75.128.1]
3 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 254.246.65.202.unknown.m1.com.sg [202.65.246.254]
4 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms 253.246.65.202.unknown.m1.com.sg [202.65.246.253]
5 3 ms 4 ms 4 ms 9.246.65.202.unknown.m1.com.sg [202.65.246.9]
6 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms 37.246.65.202.unknown.m1.com.sg [202.65.246.37]
7 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms 134.246.65.202.unknown.m1.com.sg [202.65.246.134]
8 5 ms 5 ms 4 ms M1C-0004.10026.telstraglobal.net [61.14.145.137]
9 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms be3.wr2.sin0.10026.telstraglobal.net [61.14.157.164]
10 163 ms 163 ms 164 ms te0-1-0-5.gw2.lax3.10026.telstraglobal.net [61.14.157.210]
11 164 ms 164 ms 163 ms xe0-0-1.gw3.lax3.10026.telstraglobal.net [202.147.58.134]
12 165 ms 163 ms 164 ms ip-202-147-61-251.asianetcom.net [202.147.61.251]
13 166 ms 165 ms 166 ms unknown.telstraglobal.net [202.84.253.81]
14 166 ms 164 ms 164 ms i-93.tlot02.bi.telstraglobal.net [202.84.253.86]
15 181 ms 181 ms 181 ms 8-3-2.edge1.LosAngeles6.Level3.net [4.68.70.69]
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 238 ms 249 ms * 4.59.197.34
18 227 ms * 224 ms 64.25.32-9.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.9]
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * 234 ms 64.25.32-82.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.82]
21 244 ms 244 ms 244 ms 64.25.38-243.ncsoft.com [64.25.38.243]

maddoctor.2738:

SkyShroud.2865:

What a foolish comparison.

It’s actually a valid comparison. It’s good that you cant’ find a way around it though.

The point is still in development, what they initially planned will not always be so at the release.

Obviously that’s why they tried to introduce more difficult encounters in nearly every single release. Most of them failed, that’s why they tried Raids and for the first time since release they succeeded.

Valid comparison when your usage of terminologies are questionable? Fine, believe what you want to believe.

Also, it is natural game development to progressively add more difficult game contents but to relate this natural game development cycle to your point of failures is indeed far fetched.

maddoctor.2738:

SkyShroud.2865:

No, the fact remains, it is never equivalent to raid.

Only that’s exactly what they said it will be, not Raids, but equivalent to Raids. Content for those who enjoy raiding in other games, so content equal to Raids.

are meant to attract the crowd that would normally be raiding in other MMOs
How can content that is meant to attract crowd that normally is raiding, not in any way similar, or equivalent to Raids?
It’s like opening a restaurant and saying, we’ll offer soup that will attract players that normally eat meat. No, to attract customers who eat meat, you will provide meat, not soup.

There is nothing subjective about it, the dungeons were in fact and beyond any kind of doubt going to be their equivalent to Raids. But they failed as such.

On your argument about difficulty similar to gw1, do kindly note that the second article you have provided is dated in 2011 which is a year different from the first article which is dated 2012 though both are before release, it is only logical to take 2012 article as the more relevant reference.

And your point? That they changed their attitude and decided that their “challenging” content would be a joke that doesn’t require any kind of coordination?.

Shouldn’t difficult contents something more widely available?

No. Both the newer dungeons and the open world events were harder than most content released prior to the game. Them being one-off content is irrelevant.

What a foolish comparison. Equivalent means equal or exactly the same. Like is not equal but similar and not exactly the same. Meat lover will continues to eat meat, the factors are the quality and taste of the meat. Now, to appeal doesn’t necessary means to be using highest quality meat, it can be just average quality and focus on better taste. Again, you are the one that want to believe they said dungeons were equivalent to raid but reality is it never is.

The point is still in development, what they initially planned will not always be so at the release. What was initially very difficulty may not what they wanted, they may want a progressive difficulty and not straight-up difficulty. Regardless, the point is the dates are too far apart to be used as a cross reference. Also, using those dated article as a basis for your raid argument is too far fetched. Raid is introduced not because of anything before but because of popular requests by players and anet desire to have more difficult contents. Also, those claims about contents prior raids are failure in their difficulty designs thus raid is released are baseless.

As above, this item can’t be linked in chat.

[&AgHmNgEA]

zealex.9410:

SkyShroud.2865:

Nope. pve is anet’s main focus.

Thats a biased statement, yes wvw has recieved the least attention but you can’t say the same for pvp. Wether you like the changes or not you can’t deny each season they further update the gamemode and further try to polish it (not succesfully in cases) but they try they even added 2 new pvp maps and changed much or the existing ones. Pve in ot of it self varies from player to player other prefer 5 man other open world other raids and all had they respectable content droughts as well as all had their respectable updates. Same to an extend with wvw with various polls they did.

You say the statement is false?
Living story is released on a timely manner with established development cycles. Then, there is also current events. Likewise works are being done on raid and fractals. Put it plain and simple, pve has consistent contents being put in. The only time when there is no content is when they had all the staffs to focus on expansion.

On the other hand, pvp while having contents, it is on a much smaller scale and also not in a timely manner. They focus one or very few things at a time though they do manage to get things out.

WvW while having a new map, couple of new objects, modifying existing objects & areas, fixes and several backend features added in, the amount of time spent getting this done is long, suggesting small team.

When you compare the three, it is quite obvious that pve is the main focus.

maddoctor.2738:

SkyShroud.2865:

Yes, as you mentioned, it is to appeal and they never said it is to be equivalent to raid so his claim is still invalid.

No it’s not. How can something so easy as the dungeons became after some time be “appealing” to those who liked Raids in other mmorpgs? The claim is still valid, and your counter is invalid.

All in all, don’t twist the words for your own convenient arguments.

You are the one twisting words for your own convenient arguments. Didn’t you read the second interview that they wanted their dungeons to be like old challenging areas of GW1? Have you ever played in those areas? It was impossible to complete without organization, without team building, without teamwork and without proper builds. In contrast, dungeons in GW2 are done sole while naked. They said their dungeons will be about coordination. Stop twisting their words for your convenient arguments. The words are simple and have a simple interpretation. They said they will have Raid-like difficulty but they didn’t, nothing more than that.

They said the content would attract the Raid group, so it will be equal to Raids in other games in terms of difficulty/challenge, otherwise it wouldn’t attract the Raid crowd. It’s that simple. There aren’t multiple meanings to what was said, they wanted to add content that will challenging, only in a way a Raid can be, and failed to deliver. Now they do.

No, the fact remains, it is never equivalent to raid. You are the only one that continues to keep saying raid-like. All they wanted to do is to attract or appeal, it doesn’t necessary means the contents require to be equivalent to raid inorder to attract and appeal. You are the one assume it has to be like raid inorder to attract and appeal therefore come to the conclusion that it should be like raid.

On your argument about difficulty similar to gw1, do kindly note that the second article you have provided is dated in 2011 which is a year different from the first article which is dated 2012 though both are before release, it is only logical to take 2012 article as the more relevant reference.

maddoctor.2738:

SkyShroud.2865:

Edit2: Also, I have to correct you on something. Aetherblade, molten etc weren’t designed to be regular dungeons, it were designed as special dungeons available alongside with living story 1. They simply put it back in the game since people were like, why is anet making contents only to delete it later? Again, you seems to be using those as convenient arguments to justify something.

There is nothing to correct. Those dungeons were designed as gimmicks, making gear and build nearly irrelevant, all that was to them was added challenge by having puzzle elements. I was talking about the initial additions in LS1 not the fractal versions.

Do kindly note that you are the one that stated that these one-off dungeons are part of the so-called attempt to provide more difficult contents. How can you call one-off dungeons anet’s attempt to provide more difficult contents? Shouldn’t difficult contents something more widely available?

Nope. pve is anet’s main focus.

Fatalyz.7168:

SkyShroud.2865:

Last time, anet mentioned they have two different teams working on living story, now I believe is only one. I also haven’t heard from the guild development team since their last post on guild hall statistic, maybe disbanded?

They have 3 teams working on Living Story. So far the first team has released episode 1 and 4, team 2 did Ember Bay and the upcoming episode, team 3 did Bitterfrost and episode 6 (if we get that far, which I believe we will).

If I remember correctly, they don’t have anyone working on guild specific enhancements, but I could be wrong.

That’s a lot of teams! So they abandon the guild development eh? Disappointing.

A lot of arguments, I wish I could join in but too much to read so mehz.

I wish anet could have designed the raid differently, not because it is bad now but because of how partially unpolished and much delays the game contents is in now.

I always thought that they could have just expand the existing dungeons, simply adding one additional difficulty called raid or half raid. I am pretty sure the amount of development time would be greatly reduced and the time gain can be spent on polishing the game or getting the legendary delivered earlier. Then, if they really want to do a brand new raid instance, wait until they delivered what they should deliver and can comfortably set aside a group to do it.

Last time, anet mentioned they have two different teams working on living story, now I believe is only one. I also haven’t heard from the guild development team since their last post on guild hall statistic, maybe disbanded?

Miellyn.6847:

SkyShroud.2865:

Sources please, for things you claim to be.

http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dungeons/into-the-dungeons/

The official article about dungeons prior release, under Behind the curtain: Dungeon Secrets

The explorable mode, on the other hand, is set up to be a challenge worthy of an organized group of experienced players who coordinate their attacks. Given that the dungeons require more organized, focused groups, we get to work out some truly awesome boss battles that require teamwork and planning to overcome. There are a number of these scripted battles in each dungeon, and some of the bosses are truly massive in both size and power.
Dungeons are optional, but are a lot of fun for players who seek a challenge.

Dungeons were supposed to be a challenge for organised groups that pre plan. Raids so far are the only content that fullfil those requirements, yet this statement was made prior release.

Really….
Why would you think game companies or any companies would make a impactless or not so exciting statements? Do you actually think they are gonna write something like the dungeons can be done easily without much organisation and work? Come on. Also, where is the part that says gw2’s version of raid?

Furthermore, this is just answering your dungeon claim. How about your fractal claims?

Miellyn.6847:

Blaeys.3102:

SkyShroud.2865:

Blaeys.3102:

SkyShroud.2865:

I think I understand what you are saying.

Raid is inherently exclusive and not inclusive. Raid doesn’t sit well with guilds that focus on community as community consist of everybody regardless good or bad that is why we have raid guilds. Raid and community just don’t go well with one another.

Thank you.

The issue is obviously more complex, but your one short paragraph sums the issue up pretty well.

And, I know many will disagree with it – but, again, that is because they play the game for different reasons than I – and other like me – do.

For us, GW2 was an oasis in a desert of MMOs that cared little for guilds built around friendship and community. I dont want to see that aspect of the game go away.

Yes, the complexity involve how it may or may not change the mentality of certain percentage of the players for the better or for the worse in long term. It is common in real life, government or companies decide on policies that may or may not change and shape the society.

Personally, I am not so optimistic about the long term effects of raid on players towards community as I can’t see the direction anet is heading.

Im definitely not optimistic. Raids, in the manner they chose to introduce them, have already started taking the game in a direction many players would rather not follow.

I think it is, at least partially, a result of lack of leadership at the top. They need a new game director. O’Brian, as good as he is at his job as CEO, probably doesn’t have the time or resources to fill that role – and the result is that the game is fairly direction-less. I dont mean that as an insult against Anet or anyone there – just as an observation.

When teams design in vacuums – as it seems the raid team is, with divergent (and, in this case, polarized) goals they lose sight of what is best for the game and its community. A ship needs a captain with a clear idea of where it is going – and then structure to make sure all of the teams stay on course. I truly believe that the ship is lost and in desparate need of that direction.

You make the same mistake ohoni made before he vanished. You try to speak for the whole community. You can only speak for yourself.

The direction never changed. They annouced dungeons as the raids of GW2 prior release, that the explorable mode could only be completed by organised groups. Dungeons failed those design goals. Fractals were their next attempt and it also didn’t provide what they wanted. Now after 3.5 years they released content that achieves those goals and everybody acts like they couldn’t see that coming.
There are open world events that can’t be done without proper organisation and builds. Try Triple Trouble with people that play only at their own playstyle. You won’t complete it and it got added much earlier than raids.
The desire to add organised group content that can’t be beaten by your average PUG was always there from ArenaNet.

Only because you don’t like the direction doesn’t mean there is a lack of a direction. It never changed they just took a lot of time to figure out how to present challenging content (open world/instanced, number of players etc).

Sources please, for things you claim to be.

From what I can see, anet is planning to fill up the entire tyria map basically the map we have now. The new continent most likely be another game.

Blaeys.3102:

SkyShroud.2865:

I think I understand what you are saying.

Raid is inherently exclusive and not inclusive. Raid doesn’t sit well with guilds that focus on community as community consist of everybody regardless good or bad that is why we have raid guilds. Raid and community just don’t go well with one another.

Thank you.

The issue is obviously more complex, but your one short paragraph sums the issue up pretty well.

And, I know many will disagree with it – but, again, that is because they play the game for different reasons than I – and other like me – do.

For us, GW2 was an oasis in a desert of MMOs that cared little for guilds built around friendship and community. I dont want to see that aspect of the game go away.

Yes, the complexity involve how it may or may not change the mentality of certain percentage of the players for the better or for the worse in long term. It is common in real life, government or companies decide on policies that may or may not change and shape the society.

Personally, I am not so optimistic about the long term effects of raid on players towards community as I can’t see the direction anet is heading.

This has been raised before. Gw2 is going on a very predictable design and that is making more maps per story and raid instances every X months but the question is it sustainable?

There are only that much population in gw2 and there are so many maps, maps can and will be empty and there already a few maps that are pretty empty. What really matters is that the events are group events, you can’t solo it and naturally, the new players who aspired to get ap or skins will be discouraged.

Is this the path gw2 is heading towards? Just putting in new maps and instances without considerations?

Blaeys.3102:

The one PVE game mode that changed that was raids. And I truly believe that, because of the loose development style I talk about above, they didn’t stop to think about how this kind of content model would change the game.

I realize a lot of people don’t see it – but I firmly believe that is because they approach the game differently than those who do. They base their in game friendships/guilds/etc on skill at the game and a willingness to sacrifice form for function – and that is fine. For those people, raids are a good fit.

It isnt, however, how many formed their guilds/communities in the first years of the game. For us, raids represent a break from the core purpose of the game in PVE – to offer a fun place for us all to play together. And while some can argue that the rest of the game hasnt changed, I think that argument is shortsighted – raids in their current form have had a real impact on how many approach the game – through the “stepford wife” syndrome created by meta gameplay, a feeling of being left out of part of the story/experience/etc, through false airs of superiority emerging across both game chat and various forums, and so on.

That is the identity I feel has changed. And, while that is a personal definition of the term, I think it is one many share with me.

For us, the game is changing in a very negative way – but one that they could rectify very easily. How we identify (and identify with) the game is changing – and not for the better.

I think I understand what you are saying.

Raid is inherently exclusive and not inclusive. Raid doesn’t sit well with guilds that focus on community as community consist of everybody regardless good or bad that is why we have raid guilds. Raid and community just don’t go well with one another.

VaLee.5102:

I’ve played the game since LS1, quit a month after HoT released, and now I started playing again, and the more I played the more I realized how changed the game is now.
And by changed I don’t mean content, features or mechanics being shifted around or added, but the core of what GW2 used to be seems lost.

I came to GW2 after years of hardcore raiding in WoW, it was something new and different, and altho it wasn’t the “WoW killer” everyone expected it to be, it was fresh and interesting enough to be unique and have its own place in the crowded MMO world.
Everything was focused on cooperation, I was literally shocked by how nice the community was ingame compared to WoW, the content was designed for large numbers of players, etc…

Now, I don’t know anymore, it just feels like all those things are just there in the background, with GW2 now focusing on raids, and the community shifted massively with this change. That old content is still there ofc, but it’s just that, old content, that…it’s there.

- The amount of salt, elitism and player base split makes this game no different than any other MMO now, especially with meters being introduced to the game. Players will always choose to be first in a numbers competition over helping someone else. It’s the nature of competitive gameplay.
- You also now have mandatory holy trinity as well if you want to succeed in top tier content. Not needed for open world content, but like I said that content it’s either old or not really relevant. You don’t really need a holy trinity if you do old content in WoW either for example, or for mindlessly killing horses to skin them for leather.
- You don’t have any gear treadmill, but you now have the mastery treadmill if you want to succeed in end content, it’s like potayto/potahto, still a treadmill that will get obsolete eventually. Tell me how I can use the Itzel mastery in LS3 please, or the Exalted one, or the Nuhoch. Doubt they will be useful in any new content ever again. But you needed to get them because Anet gated some content behind those masteries, so they weren’t really optional. It’s the same as farming for a tier of gear that will get obsolete when the new fancy one appears, e.g. the new LS3 mastery track.
—-———————————————————


TLDR; What makes GW2 different than any other generic MMO right now?

How would you convince a WoW player for example to come and play GW2 today? Because I can’t think of anything else but “well it’s like WoW, but different…it has asuras instead of gnomes, and you don’t need 100 addons to be able to get into a raid…yet”

Didn’t expect this to have 500 posts!

Anyway, I get what you are saying.

Gw2 at the beginning was really interesting with so many events, I still remember the epic opening event for Southsun Cove, it is the first and also the last for guild wars 2. Living story 1 was interesting because there were a lot of maps changing events though many complained that it wasn’t persistent which I do agree to a certain extend but it is indeed more epic than the other living stories.

I do agree that HOT have bought tons of changes to PvE though many of those don’t interests me. When they expanded FOTM to level 100, to me, it was like I have to grind another 50 levels again? Grind more sets again? So troublesome.

Then for raid, to me, I don’t get that epic feelings. I favor 20-men raid than a 10-men raid because 20-men just feels more epic. Also, I think 20-men is more reasonable number for a guild while a 10-men is like a clique. The main issue is just the epic feelings is not there.

I don’t feel as excited any more for PvE contents after HOT. In fact, I have cut down my PvE activities so much. Just for your info, I have 28k AP and PvE was really interesting so I keep doing the APs but for HOT, other than the stories, a lot of things are just meh.

Do take note that server matters for wvw and if you are to make ocx server, it has to have enough population make it feasible for wvw.

The linking is base on the then status of the servers during relink but at the same time the algorithm to calculate the population changed only after thus it is correct to argue that the status of the servers were not done the same way we perceive population now. Anet has absolutely zero plan to relink outside of the scheduled relink. It is important to continue to remind anet to focus on population than scoring as for the past months, many things done thus far were mostly on scoring and naturally the changes to make scoring more equal between 1st, 2nd and 3rd is a bad decision which is why we had TC stuck in T1. Afterall, there is no point having a system if anet has to manually intervene.

Blow it up! Blow it up! We should long ago have this as official vote, anet thought of blowing it all up but I wonder why they didn’t put it to vote in the first place but your poll is extremely inaccurate for people can vote multiple times.

Updated one of the explanations about 90% rep rule to be more concise
“In large guild, it will take a really long time to get to know each other and rep rule provide that amount of time”

to

“Strong diverse social cohesive core doesn’t happen due to the invisible hands and contradictory, the hands pull it furthers apart especially with 5 different social groups of vary sizes. 90% rep works really well before multi-chat and still now to a weaker extend”

gw2 is single core performance dependent while ryzen excel in multi core.

nothing to worry about, if there is a exploit on ap, i would have know, trust me, i ahve 28k ap and i stop doing much ap since a year ago.

Orpheal.8263:

@Sky
If you meant with this comment me, then no, my idea of game balance isn’t just to give classes only more/better DPS.
To limit yourself only onto DPS values is most likely the ultimate worst way of attempting to balance classes in a game like GW2 and like the most noobish deathly sin one you do to a game!

My idea of game balance follows the principle, that Skill and Number Changes are used mainly for FINETUNINGS on Classes, the rough changes on core components of the Combat System are it, which make the impactful changes that truly move the game direction of its state of balance and with adjustments to Skills and Traits you can improve the fine nuances that are needed to be calibrated to get as close as possible to a “balance” as you can get.

Don’t understand really what your comment has to do now with “boredom” ..???
If you think its a lazy and “bored” way of balancing, if you just permanently repeat over 4 years over and over again the same things on the game – then yes, you’re right.
In that case I think I have understood you then, as it is a very limited way to handle a game like GW2, if all what you do on the game is every 3 months only number changes on skills and traits, when there is so much more you could do with the game, to improve its balance.

Somewhen is simply the line crossed, where number changes and trait alterations just aren’t enough anymore to move the game into the right direction.
Thats the point, when bigger medium sized changes like a complete rework on the Condition/Boon System and the implementation of Break Bars to Players are required onto which are followed then again by balance patches that finetune the skills and traits based on the made changes on the bigger parts of the combat system.

i am replying to op.

good effort for your wall of text though is pointless.

ermmm…..

if ur idea of balancing is to have better dps, im not sure if you understand what balancing is.

also, u get bored relatively fast becoz u limit urself to a few things

Ermmm…..

mmorpg is hard to enter esport market simply because many esport games usually has low learning curve to get into while having high skill cap but for mmorpg, the learning curve isnt exactly as low and the skill cap is inconsistent due to balance and designs.

however, even if mmorpg dont get into esport and just targeting the players vs players genre, it can still work out but the learning curve still an issue.

I had sent a mail to the forums team via the provided address regarding the machup thread thingy 2 weeks ago after seeing increasing numbers of posters getting touchy about it and myself getting annoyed about it. Gaile Gray replied and then updated the thread about it. If you guys still think is questionable, do send in mail as making a thread about it is unlikely to get an answer as stated in the forums rule (iirc).

Xenesis.6389:

SkyShroud.2865:

Xenesis.6389:

SkyShroud.2865:

I’ve kicked a anet staff off my guild before if that helps, not because he did anything bad but just because he can’t rep at all since he is obligated to rep anet guild.

But they’ve said they don’t need to rep the Anet guild…. and I’m sure other devs have been part of regular guilds…. so…

Obligation don’t have to be legal or contract reasons.

SkyShroud.2865:

Xenesis.6389:

SkyShroud.2865:

I’ve kicked a anet staff off my guild before if that helps, not because he did anything bad but just because he can’t rep at all since he is obligated to rep anet guild.

But they’ve said they don’t need to rep the Anet guild…. and I’m sure other devs have been part of regular guilds…. so…

ermm…obligation don’t have to be ermm…legal reason…u know.

ermm Why ermm are ermm you ermm responding ermm twice? ermm ermm
Yes I know they don’t have to be legal, just saying there’s no work obligation for them to rep or even join in the first place.

LOL! I had multiple tabs opened so I didn’t know and I had this feeling I already posted.

Xenesis.6389:

SkyShroud.2865:

I’ve kicked a anet staff off my guild before if that helps, not because he did anything bad but just because he can’t rep at all since he is obligated to rep anet guild.

But they’ve said they don’t need to rep the Anet guild…. and I’m sure other devs have been part of regular guilds…. so…

ermm…obligation don’t have to be ermm…legal reason…u know.

I’ve kicked a anet staff off my guild before if that helps, not because he did anything bad but just because he can’t rep at all since he is obligated to rep anet guild.

the api is down for fixing.

5-4-3 is used because someone suggested it earlier saying it is closer in score but they do not understand the consequences of close scoring. This isn’t democracy where equally matters, this is zero sum game, there is a need to have clear winners and losers.

Also for as long as I remembered which is really long, people have always shown more concerns over scoring than actual populations. People are always contented about anet doing “something” even if it is not so important things.

Majority is not always right.

Mag despite the adjusted glicko got rolled into t3 which is rather low chance. HOD got rolled to t2 with rather low chance too. It is ok, your SEA force will ktrain mag and yb.

Miku.6297:

SkyShroud.2865:

Here’s the thing, I can argue with you about contradiction but there is no need for me to do so because it is. Moving on, at first he said is privacy then he say is elitist so which is which? Both are not the same, both are different. His cause is unclear and questionable. Regardless, since he mentioned elitist, that suggest something else for his reason for blocking dps meter, is it really privacy or simply because of a incident that his dps got criticized. Anyway, since his cause is unclear, it is pretty moot since that point onwards.

Heres the thing, I can argue with you about it not being a contradiction but there is no need for me to do so because it is not. (This is the last time I will bother responding to your posts on this matter)

Actually he says it’s for his privacy. Second he says he believes it will be miss-used and mostly disagrees with the direction the game is taking on this mater. In a later post he mentions some of his friends being kicked for DPS etc, and says the tool is being used in an elitist manner. How ever the two circumstances are NOT mutually exclusive, both can exist and both can be true.

Saying the point is moot because you don’t believe the posters post is moot… That’s the only information you have to go on, if you don’t believe him why even bother posting on the subject? An “I don’t believe the OP post” could be made in neerly every case when reviewing something like this and it really adds nothing to the discussion

The fact that he mentioned “other players” and you claim is “friends” already shown that you are not interpreting it as face values as you claim to be.

SkyShroud.2865:

Moving on to the moot points. If the cause is privacy then legitimacy of the dps meter is in question. If the cause is elitist, then is a matter of choice and actions. Both of which I have already mentioned.

Miku.6297:

What if the cause is he simply doesn’t want to be monitored? Any player can choose to use a DPS tool, and if they are in his group or using one that reads all players in the area, what choice does he have to avoid it?

As far as the legal thing goes… As others have said you give your consent to be monitored and have damage/data tracked when you click the I accept and log in. The data is A-nets if they choose to allow DPS meter users to view it, that is their choice.

Monitoring is related to privacy, I am not sure what you are referring to at this point onwards.

Miku.6297:

SkyShroud.2865:

Isn’t that contradicting in nature? You said you take OP words at face value then on the hand, agreed that he has no basis for that. Then you claim it as fact when he has no basis, ermm…..

Regardless, it is much convincing cause to call out to block dps meter using discrimination against newbies as reasoning than using stress and pressure as reasoning.

Also, dps meters that monitor other players’ dps without consent should be against the TOS as to do so, they have to access data that are not make visible to players. This is the same thing as accessing and displaying data of other players’ gears and traits. Arcdps should be violating the tos as “simulated dps” is done through data not normally displayed to players.

It’s not contradicting at all, I said to take the OPs words at face value regaurdess of basis. The only base line information you can use in this type of situation is what the OP said. It is a fact the OP stated that, it’s also a fact that you have no proof it is or isn’t true. However discussing if the OP is lying or not really doesn’t prove anything; or address the topic.

To clarify it’s not contradicting to say to take him at face value, and then say he has no basis for it. What basis do you have other then assumption that hes lieing? What good what that do the discussion about this topic.

He didn’t use pressure, he simply said he did not like the way the game was going, or being monitored by other players.

If that type of DPS meter (the ones that monitor others without consent) are against the rules still. Then the OP has a point in not wanting to be monitored.

Here’s the thing, I can argue with you about contradiction but there is no need for me to do so because it is. Moving on, at first he said is privacy then he say is elitist so which is which? Both are not the same, both are different. His cause is unclear and questionable. Regardless, since he mentioned elitist, that suggest something else for his reason for blocking dps meter, is it really privacy or simply because of a incident that his dps got criticized. Anyway, since his cause is unclear, it is pretty moot since that point onwards.

Moving on to the moot points. If the cause is privacy then legitimacy of the dps meter is in question. If the cause is elitist, then is a matter of choice and actions. Both of which I have already mentioned.

@ Others on DPS Meter
MMORPG is designed in a way such that other players’ data like gears and traits are actually available in the client, however, are those data actually made available to everyone? Nope, those data are there for computation reasons. For arcdps case, it apparently check every hit towards the target but not so possible for conditions since it is done in consolidated tick thus is called simulated. Regardless, this way of obtaining the data is not actually visually possible thus in a way it is violating TOS. Likewise, meter showing the numerical health values of any targets should also be against TOS simply because there is no provided means to get those. DPS meter on the very basis should only consolidate and summarize data available through game UI.

Miku.6297:

SkyShroud.2865:

Wrong. Just because he is a veteran doesn’t necessary means he will and always will be doing a high DPS. All players can choose to be lazy and not do the optimal rotations. He simply hates to feel that pressure or stress to perform optimal rotations to provide that high DPS. Likewise, if he doesn’t do it, he get kicked.

It’s not wrong I am taking the OP at his word, using HIS statement. His words are “do get good dps numbers for the most part”. You can infer and claim that the OP isn’t being truthful, but that’s pushing your own opinion, and has nothing to do with fact. He goes on to say “i just disagree with this direction the game is takeing coz i belive most players missuse dps meters”. Does that say he feels pressured or stressed to perform optimal rotations or he will be kicked? No it simply says he believes many may miss use a DPS meter, and he dislikes the direction the game would be moving in.

SkyShroud.2865:

Again wrong. no one is forcing anyone to use that meter. It is your choice to use it and if the party or squad states that you must use it, it is again your choice to do so inorder to join them. No one is forced and by forced I mean it by life threatening ways or brute force.

Again wrong, I didn’t say anyone was forcing another player to use the meter… I was saying that if you are using a meter that does not require an opt in, you are essentially monitoring others without their consent.

You are correct no one is forced to or not to use a DPS meter. You are incorrect in assuming that just because a player chooses not to use one, that player can avoid having one used on him. (at least if using a non-opt in meter)

Pifil.5193:

Actually, I got the feeling he had never used a DPS meter and wouldn’t ever use one so I wonder how does he know he does good DPS? What even is good DPS? What’s his basis for comparison?

I mean, I haven’t used a DPS meter in GW2 so I don’t know what my DPS is much less what good DPS is for my main much less my alts.

Haha yep you are 100% correct, he has no basis for comparison. Really all we can do is go off the information that is present.

As some one who also hasnt used and has very little desire to use a DPS meter (unless someone points out a good one that shows buff/heal/etc time) I don’t know alot about it either. I do however understand the OP’s feelings of not enjoying big brother DPS meter keeping all the groups safe from low dps. xD

Isn’t that contradicting in nature? You said you take OP words at face value then on the hand, agreed that he has no basis for that. Then you claim it as fact when he has no basis, ermm…..

Regardless, it is much convincing cause to call out to block dps meter using discrimination against newbies as reasoning than using stress and pressure as reasoning.

Also, dps meters that monitor other players’ dps without consent should be against the TOS as to do so, they have to access data that are not make visible to players. This is the same thing as accessing and displaying data of other players’ gears and traits. Arcdps should be violating the tos as “simulated dps” is done through data not normally displayed to players.

Miku.6297:

I was just unsure exactly what you meant by the comment. The comment is generally geared towards freedom, but I’m unsure as to how you are trying to relate it to the current discussion.

I wasn’t trying to make it sound like a straw man arguement as much as I was trying to respond to that part of your statement and not have a huge quote box.

It is quite easy to relate, there is only one point that the entire thread is arguing about and that is

• I don’t want people to see my DPS, I don’t want to be kicked because of it

Then basing on that point, they derive to

• People are elitist because they check DPS

However, fundamentally is still a matter of choices and actions. No one force anyone to use the meter, no one force anyone to join a party or squad that require you to use the meter, no one force anyone to agree to be subject to no-spoken expectations of a party or squad that use the meter. The tool itself has no fault or does it gives unfair advantages. If anyone chose to join a party or squad that uses a meter then be ready to handle the possible negative consequences.

Miku.6297:

SkyShroud.2865:

Freedom of choice and action that is not applicable to all is not freedom of choice and action.

That’s pretty obvious, though unavoidable when one person use of freedom of choice and action impacts or impedes anothers.

I am not sure what you are trying to imply here while omitting my other sentences, making it seems so much like a straw man argument.

Firstly, not everyone uses DPS meter, not every party or squad joined has DPS expectations.

Secondly, it is a matter of choice for the players themselves to join a party or squad that demand high DPS.

Thirdly, if a player can choose to join or not join a party or squad that demands high DPS. The members of that party or squad should have the equivalent freedom to demand high DPS while using certain tools to verify so.

Freedom of choice and action that is not applicable to all is not freedom of choice and action.

Xenesis.6389:

Might want to edit the underlined part, as you basically just gave players permission to insult both servers and players in game. It happens already, but I’m sure anet doesn’t want to openly promote that kind of behavior.

It is unfortunate but is hard truth, all multiplayer games that involve at least 2 different team of players, there will be trash talking. Most importantly, this isn’t professional league game where everyone are mature players. I believe the main issue is that by posting it in forums or whatever platforms, it stays there permanently unless deleted so people can come across those, be it that the contents are untruth, baseless accusations, exaggerated or whatever. Whoever are ill informed will believe in this information and there will be consequences for that. Then, if you fill up the forums with those nonsense, the forums will no longer be productive.

Honestly speaking. I did suggested some time back to not link the top few servers but that is because it were the biggest servers. However, recently there are changes made to the algorithm and I suspected there are changes to the global server cap, I am not sure if the top few servers are the biggest any more.

Still, there are changes made, things that I am unable to figure out to make reasonable suggestions, a total blackbox for me.

Skill cap eh…ermm….that would be chrono, it will bring the highest value to the squad if played by a pro.

You can tag up and be a commander.

EOTM was created as a mean to handle queues in “Full” servers at that time and devs come up with additional justifications like additional mean to get newbies to WvW. They took a year to complete it and the queues were getting lesser by then. EOTM back then has more rewards in both loots and leveling. A lot of people do EOTM for the easy levels but this come at a price which is people have gained a different perception of large scale PvP. EOTM became a target for the wvw regulars and is blamed as one of the primary causes of declining WvW activities and demand EOTM to be nerfed or deleted. EOTM leveling has been nerfed some time back, reducing the reasons to EOTM. I do not know if EOTM is dead or not but I do know I haven’t done my EOTM achievement points.

Are those timing server time or your personal time?

The main goal of this nerf is make rev a harder epi target but still, you can boonstrip the rev and epi it later.

We have to wait 3 months (again).

We need more servers to get into hot soup, not because it is fun to watch people suffer but so that people will actually realize the fundamental issues and speak up. There is power in numbers afterall.

All these fundamental issues are timebombs, it will not happen to any servers immediately but it will eventually.

ich.7086:

…

I don’t see you how think is plain wrong when you agree partially with what I wrote.

The way you see population balance is interesting but impractical. I will compare moving server to people moving between cities. People are not going to move to another city if that city does not has the basic needs available to them and that basic needs is accommodation + others. Same thing for the server, people will not move if it is full, simply because they can’t. WvW has double limitation, first is overall population limitation and the second is map population limitation. The concept is simple, if everyone is queued, it is balanced but that’s not gonna happen outside NA prime. Their only chance for balancing outside NA prime is and only is overall population limitation. Yet, here there is this problem, overall population limitation is a hard cap and not dynamic cap. Hard cap lead to disparity easily due movement of players. This is anet responsibility as they did not implement a solution to dynamically limit the movements.

The casual can further break the balance under this new algorithm. Afterall, as mentioned, they can possibility just overwhelm the other side with pure numbers. It is similar to how JQ was when it was at its peak of stacking. This algorithm isn’t calculating actual population like you mentioned, it is just calculating perceived population. This perceived population is base on what anet deemed as acceptable but so far, what has anet deemed as acceptable bought to WvW balance as a whole? Anet has a different concept of competitiveness and fun.

Tiawal.2351:

…

In the past, there were a lot of suggestions regarding how the algorithm can be done and some of which are complicated ones. The complicated ones can handle more diversity but it takes quite a while to implement it. So, by looking aback, a lot of suggestions were already made and so did mine, I am sure anet devs did read them since they once mentioned they thought of blowing it all up as well as putting a whole new algorithm after that.

Now, we have past that suggestions phase since it already said. Currently, is to question the feasibility of this approach and if it will bring more harm than good.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Sounds to me like a lot of you people are running around like chickens with your heads cut off. Get in an organized group. Join a guild. Run proper group comp. Epi and condis do nothing. I never have a condition on me for more than one or two seconds.

On the other hand, resistance is OP. I don’t understand why anyone is running condi in large scale combat unless they’re facing a total pug group on EB or just a terrible guild.

Yes, you end up having to run like a ball, limiting all varieties and playstyle into one single ball.

Not only that, epi works too well against pugs, better than direct dps.

Karmilla.5071:

Post history means nothing actually & he’s an old school SG member who didn’t transfer from JQ to DH with us. Just sayin

It means something and that is he don’t know how the forums works. It is nothing personal.