Guild Wars 2

This is an improvement imo

Didn’t cost money, costed influence which you got from playing your way with guildies instead of having to farm kitten…

And thus, as I predicted, everyone forgets and forgives Arenanet for removing progress yet again.

Let’s completely ignore the fact they removed it in the first place, and be happy we can pay to re-earn abilities. And tell the people who are just realizing it that all is well.

Wait…https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3uznbc/major_wvw_overhaul_colin_j_ft_e/?ref=search_posts

WHAT THE kittyING kitty ARE YOU kittying kittenING ME.. This guy better be fake…

If you are just cruising, you can probably make your own build easy enough just reading the trait descriptions since they trashed most of the traits and removed complex choices (no back picks a master with your grandmaster etc). You’ll probably want Water or Arcane (I’m assuming no tempest yet) or if you need a bit of extra breathing room while you adjust, both. If you’re sticking in pve, metabattle has some zerker builds iirc, googling “Sand Squall tank” with get you a forum link to a crazy elementalist condition build that seems tough as hell once you get the hang of it that you’d probably want to edit in moar condition damage.

Also, don’t bother getting the epic 10g per rune for a few % moar damage rune sets for your exotic, like someone earlier mentioned.
I use undead for my condition/toughness/x builds for example with duration increasers for pve as they’re cheap as dirt and give an ok bonus (there is probably a better cheap option).
If you can keep burning up on a direct damage build most of the time as a side effect (seems possible, in groups especially) Flame Legion runes are pretty cheap with a 7% damage modifier

You can goof around in a build editor like this (there a several out there): http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ to look at the runes etc beforehand to get a bit of an idea on what you want on your character

Eleri Tezhme.3048:

CIndeR.3479:

You are right, there are people who are simply unable to get certain items from the game. But to make it easier for those people is to cheapen it for others who are proud of what they’ve done.

Not easier, equal. We should all have an equal chance to get things in this game.

When you make content that is especially difficult or impossible for players with disabilities to do part of a requirement for an event, item or story, then you are actively excluding players. You are making them less than the other players.

Before I go any further, I agree we should be open, considerate and constructive posters.

It was nice to read your idealistic writing, but you can’t make anything skill based and give everyone an equal chance by the definitions your posts strongly suggest, so I have to disagree with even though the spirit of your post comes from a good place.

First off, you try to say make easier and make equal are different in this situation. They are not. Adding a colorblind option (say shading) to the start menu/game is making it equal, changing core gameplay mechanisms (jumping + timed gameplay) to accommodate disabilities is flatting out the challenge to lower the entry level. Don’t stop here, read further because I will expand on this (spoiler because Wall of Text).

Stupid real life comparison example because they’re mandatory or something:
I have difficulty breathing in high moisture, so I don’t pick up the hobby Soccer player in a coastal region, despite being a soccer player before in a desert region. If I did, then would it be fair if I ask the ref to make walking the only method of moving. Taking it a step further, if I was wheelchair bound, do I join the regular club and ask for the entire game to be brought down to my level to make it so I have an “equal” chance (walking/slow so I can keep up, no headers, no jumping, surfaces must be accessible, no slide tackles, etc etc)? Its not like I’m asking for special privileges, let’s just make it so everyone can do it starting by catering to my group. I mean, its a game, we should all have an equal chance, right?
Its just being fair right, everyone walks at my speed so we can all compete. Equality!
[The farfetched example completely falls apart because there are similar games that do cater to my theoretical handicap group, but if you keep it within the limits I used I think its fair.]

Sorry for the wall of text.

TL;DR Although we should be nice and constructive like OP says, OP’s views are idealistic and are inapplicable to the current issue. Its not easy to build equal encounters, let alone equal encounters requiring or rewarding skill. And there will always be someone who is excluded, so a line must be drawn somewhere.

Any title I am wearing has the biggest.

Describe a typical hour for you in the Alpine Borderlands in the past. For example, What size of group were you running in? What kind of tasks did you run? What activities did you do?
2-10 guild map flippers and roaming on enemy BL and pug zerg commanding on Home BL.

Compare your experience described above with a typical hour spent in Eternal Battlegrounds, if you went there at all. Does your style of play change between the 2 maps?
Yes slightly, I ran havoc primarily in EB with guild groups, almost never commanded there.

Compare your experiences described above with an hour spent in the new borderlands.
With luck I can run around the map, but now my group is unopposed and its just a karma train. My groups are 2-5 now because of all the guildies quitting.

Describe the nature of combat in the borderlands in the past. How have the new borderlands impacted this paradigm for you? What style or build changes might it cause? For example, knocking people off cliffs or into lava might play a more important role.
Open field fights, we could see the other coming and prepare. We were more fighters than cappers so we’d drop everything and get ready to fight. Capping just served as a beacon to attract enemy attention as well as giving us a goal when enemies were hard to find. Now I don’t even see fights, even troll skyhammer builds are rare. We got more damage from environment effects than enemy players now, and environment effects were non-issue after the second time passing them.

I can see skyhammer builds (you know that map hat gets whining in pvp as being too cheesy for competitive play?) in particular terror necros being successful here holding all the instant death chokepoints against pugs

In your experience, compare the time it takes take a structure or objective here, then it did in the past.
Temples are faster than ruins, but there are more and travel distance is higher. Oasis event…bleh
Camps about the same.
Towers a bit longer (in seconds), mostly due to champ tactic adaptation. Should balance out if we could be bothered.
Keeps longer, travel time and terrain currently being the main problem, so it’ll speed up a bit.

How is the loot and wxp for you compared to in the past? Will it be able to sustain whatever you are doing? Did it take a hit, or was it improved? If you are planning to unlock an elite specialization, do you think you were helped or hurt in these regards? Do you think you could pursue any other in-game goals just by playing WvW?
How will the map change impact the long sessions (multiple hours) you spend in WvW?
Took a hit, also because the kitten chests needs to be shifted to characters and wxp changes. Couldn’t sustain it before anyway. First helped in a pretty token way, then help put behind a screw you wall. Pursuing anything in wvw has been and still is inefficient. My long sessions are better spent elsewhere entirely typically.

In 100 words or less, describe how the new BLs could be improved.
Put them on faster rotation so we get at least 50% alpine outside of tournaments. To continue measuring the difference between the maps activities…

In 100 words or less, describe how the borderlands work to a new WvW player.
YEAH EPIC war!!!! Wait… where is everyone? -Quits after wandering for a bit-

In 100 words or less, describe how the borderlands work to a veteran WvW player that is new to the maps.
First run through full of cursing
Second run through goes ok, but no one to fight. Look at all those insta kill spots for necros
Third run through (as if!) why do I even bother?

Which map am I most likely to find you currently, if you’re on Gw2?
Stronghold

Zioba.6182:

albotelho.2931:

Yes they mentioned that Alpine map would be revised and then it would come back… considering Desert map I also get worried of what is to come of Alpine map.

Maybe they will bring back the middle lake and Quaggans… I can just imagine what kind of weird events they plan with Quaggans.

Do you remember the slipery parts of the iced mountains in the 2nd part of the super adventure box? or the reactorfractal where the plates break under your feet? That would both fit perfectly into the cold theme of the alpine BL’s. I expect them to give us stuff like this…
And before some Dev reads this and thinks “Hm… nice idea…” please NO!! ^^;

All bridges replaced with this, and snow now gives chilled when you walk through it. Thanks Zioba. >.<

Complaints seem to be overwhelming
Raids can’t explain all the population loss
Oblivious to the fact this is a highly desired pvp form online
Wvw is dying scream the masses
Failures include Pve maps EotM and desert borderlands
Arenanet seems to have abandoned this form
Last ditch effort with rumoured Alliances
Luckily, there may be hope else on the interwebs

cough

Agemnon.4608:

Donari.5237:

Agemnon.4608:

Doggie.3184:

Agemnon.4608:

Teaniel.9052:

Well, I had to finish it when I found the mesmer one. Thief makes more sense if you know the character. He does ‘death-blossom’ acrobatics, but I can’t find a picture!

Why is Luke a necromancer! He’s a guardian more than anything because he has the force (making him closer to guardian than warrior).

Cuz lightsabers kill in one hit and they can use the force to levitate.

Wouldn’t Darth Vader be a better example though since necromancers are supposed to be a bad guy class?

Not in Tyria they aren’t, per canon! Go Luke go.

But necromancers summon demons while thieves take what doesn’t belong to them by definition. To summon demons you need to get on their good side and forsake the good gods. At least traditionally, apparently lore is different here regarding them.

Bobba Fett would be a ranged warrior I think, he has no supernatural powers so guardian is out while he wears heavy armor.

They don’t summon demons, they summon undead. And despite necromancy getting a bad rep because its easy a source for mindless troops, it remains a tool that someone uses, and therefore arguably unaligned. (Here’s a cool story to show this http://imgur.com/iUroaPj.). An example could be the undying court of the fantasy setting Eberron, in which the wise elders of a Aerenal are made ‘immortal’ through necromancy so all could benefit from their wisdom, and are kept alive by their people willingly.

Real life comparison: we improved heavily on air planes to better kill other humans from a distance. Now its a mundane form of transportation. Tool was used and knowledge grew rapidly through war (evil), but turned into a positive (or neutral) use.
(Sorry if this summary oversimplifies to the point of error to any air plane enthusiasts)

Also Grenth is part of the human gods and he is pretty openly worshipped in the modern Tyria fantasy setting, so you arn’t giving up the “good” gods by embracing Death. Dark magic could simply refer to the color shading ;P

andyMak.6985:

I got a 80 thief. Last time I played it the super adventure box was just out. That’s when I quit playing. Got a necro to 80 and wanted ele as it looks fun.
Lvled ele using crafting and want to make it my main
I know the rotation for d/f from metabattle but suck at it so will practice if I can ever find practice dummies

Heart of the mists (pvp lobby) have quite a few dummy setups + practice npcs that would serve as a decent place to practice your rotation. Even have a dodge trainer. (Its just the lobby, not actual PvP)

You probably have all the autopilot options on.

Press F11 or ESC->Options
Scroll down to combat section
Turn off autotargeting will probably fix most of it
Otherwise I know there is one that autoattacks on target get (Hover your mouse of the names and it’ll tell you what they do) that you should probably have off anyway.

The standard settings put your character more or less on autopilot.

While you’re at it, go through and change all the options in F11 to suit you, its well worth your while. There are a ton of QoL options there above combat, and a ton of combat options which you’d probably want off/on if you want to try any fancy fighting.

[Edit: they reset everyone’s settings a few days ago iirc, was a royal pain in the butt]

I agree with everything Ohoni has said here

Thunderbird.4298:

Snow.2048:

Silly Americans…

Maybe I should “Main” a full nomad stealth only thief. I really think it has potential. Honestly. I am serious!

I need that vial of tears one way or another. Either from my foes or my teammates

And there it is! these are the kind of people I was talking about. Thank you man for voicing your OPINION.

You’re welcome, feel free to message me if you need it on anything else.

In all seriousness, if you are in the most competitive game mode, you should be actually trying to win. If your favourite class doesn’t make the cut either keep to lower competitions or switch. Please do point out its broken on the forums, but don’t be shocked that you upsetting people when you intentionally handicap your team.

Speaking of team, its a team game. You can continue playing the victim all you want, but if you are hurting 4 other players then I don’t see why you are surprised by their response.

The whole banning people is going too far, the balance is kitten atm and weird stuff is happening so everyone is probably on edge in pvp. But when I, being the social (ignores laughter from those who know me) person I am, want to test builds out or learn a class or use something that won’t last a second in the current meta or anything that might hurt my fellow players, I take my issues to hotjoin maybe followed by unranked.

Edit: I would think that an experienced pvp like others on this thread vouch for you as would grasp these concepts. If you are good enough to win as warrior at the leels of the broken classes, then you don’t need validation of your teammates. The reporting is a completely bullkitten move by Anet to cover up for their design mistakes.
Telling players to accept you is a waste of effort

If you some cheese Lanfear, I believe my character selection panel is a nice spread to choose from

Silly Americans…

Maybe I should “Main” a full nomad stealth only thief. I really think it has potential. Honestly. I am serious!

I need that vial of tears one way or another. Either from my foes or my teammates

I’m bored of conquest, can we stronghold again?

I’m Snow and I’m no longer yellow

Non-responsive wars

passes popcorn to Lanfear and shadow

Its extra salty

Honestly, just do your research before buying and you’ll be fine. If you are into pvp and wvw, you’ll definitely want to keep an eye on the developments because its a scary place there (but great for salting my forum popcorn). The game is still nice to look at, the xpac just makes the game a bit more exciting to play in pve if you are into that kind of thing (don’t get your pve cooties on me though).

But the repackaging…the repackaging…

Naa f2p hasn’t hurt the core game really… the xpac on the other hand

runs and hides to his popcorn filled bomb shelter

Just wanted to thank Jon for taking the time to post.

(All the red tags lately is making me happier)

ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

But congratz =) (just laughing at how I ever thought I could be a scribe)

Ceridwen.6703:

Vavume.8065:

OP, if you are still clicking your skills like I just saw on one of your youtube vids then this would explain why you are having difficulty with the content, sure HoT is harder than vanilla GW2 but you certainly do not need a zerg to get through areas, I’m sorry but this is a learn to play issue.

For you.

The OP says he can’t deal with the trash mobs as a main point (argument, his stance). Ceridwen gives the constructive criticism that clicking skills is probably the source of part of OP’s woes based on previous knowledge of the OP (attacking the argument that the mobs are too hard by showing a different possible explanation for the difficulty level OP is facing). Not seeing a personal attack in this, or an attack at all…

Then you present the argument that Ceridwen was in fallacy for a personal attack when that was clearer not so. Ceridwen then suggested (albeit in a less than friendly way, and in less words) that if you are taking personal affront to his statement to the point of mislabelling it a fallacy, you might have ulterior motives (eg you are a clicker yourself and feel offended).
He did word it improperly to make it into an attack, making it a poor statement all around, and losing credibility by doing such.

In other words, neither of you are actually contributing to the actual discussion beyond Ceridwens first statement, instead attacking each other.

As for clicking, if any skill clickers may be reading this:
Clicking is slower because of the longer movement time (remember this is a game measured in 1/4 seconds!).
The movement also takes away from your ability to aim and your directional control of your character (try fighting some moderate challenge things without a mouse at all if you don’t understand this) every time you use a skill, meaning you are actually partially locking yourself down every time you click.
You might think you would notice this delay and that I’m just spewing bull at you, but one of the worst (imo) effects of clicking is you have to, in some degree, aim your mouse whether you are conscience of it or not. You have to look away from the battlefield, throwing away your situational awareness for brief moments, which can often cause a slowed reaction time to changes. Everything probably seems to go way too fast for you to react to, and you blame it on lag or whatever.

And as to the rest of the OP thanks for writing down all your thoughts, despite disagreeing with some things it is understandable that the game has taken a different direction than you had hoped…
But to be honest, I just came to kitten at the misuse of a fallacy and try to convince any remaining clickers that its bad practice so I’ll close with the statement I don’t even consider clickers players in pvp settings anymore, more like slightly tougher npcs (if they are an expert clicker) and if an npc is giving you trouble, you should stop bringing your power level down to thiers.

Blade.8497:

FlashGamer.4017:

I find Herald rather strong, if not op, even with full zerk I have much sustain than I ever had on warrior. You just have use your skill strategically. Use Glint heal when you are about to get a big hit incomming, use Shiro heal when you are about to burst. Use Staff 5 and Sword 3 for Evades, pretty easy.

Pretty easy? Thats long rotation involved timing. With Dragon Hunter you just spam all traps and Guardian all meditations when you need heal.

Yeah, I mean, that’s like 4 skills mentioned. Its not like OP can set four auto attacks at once!
Give the lad a longbow and a bear.

(Yes I am what some may call an Elitist Prick. I spend my days spamming in my squad broadcast “Y u no DOOOOODGE?!!!1” to myself because I have no friends but I can solo kitten so I have that going for me, which is nice)

puts on the tinfoil hat

Rereads

Takes off hat

Why add the extra “anet is lying” to the theory when the exchange itself already acts this way? Or am I just having a durrrr moment?

What if I want the old content that got removed and put in the “amazing job” of an xpac to fatten it up?
Oh right, repurchase it.

How about the features they reset in the past in order to add things they put into the xpac, and features that didn’t get added despite being supposedly in the works during the living story gem store model, that probably kept part of their paying audience supporting finally getting added with the xpac price tag.
Just keep playing and supporting us through the gem store while we get this stuff out there guys! Here it is guys, thanks for waiting and being patient. That’ll be 50$!

And how about the part which made me laugh ridiculously hard, the fact that the gem store has been spitting out new things at a rate that suggests they have been made during the making of the xpac (including first day 2k package ahahaha). Thanks for buying the xpac guys! Here are a TON of gemstore items for you to purchase as a thanks for your support, which we probably took resources away from the xpac to make!

And before someone takes apart my three points and answers them individually, they arn’t meant to be taken that way. Point 2 and 3, while ridiculous imo, are individually acceptable in the right light, but put all three together and you have a very clear message that the xpac was just a way of collecting money while continuing the living story model of releases being accompanied by heavy gem store focus.
Heavy gem store focus was good when we were getting living story, but we’re now paying for the living story and feature pack++ and its getting equal gem store craze to go with it…

I lost my train of thought… errm… oh yeah.
Stop telling people off just because you are happy with the design direction of reselling recycled stuff torn from the previous purchase

I got mine from pvp, so that’s always an option if you want a guaranteed drop

Forum bug squish

Schaffa Zeinadine.6342:

I once had a name called “Jehovahs Witnesses” for my Engi.. Once in a while, I mapchatted at LA and asking if anyone has a moment to talk about Jesus Christ.. Then I got bored of the toon and deleted it to make way for a much interesting name “Fooffy Booffy” for my super cute Charr

You missed a golden mesmer name with that imo =P

CureForLiving.5360:

Frank.7452:

There is literally nothing in the guild hall for them.

What about the arena?

It may be possible (I haven’t seen any tests), but I know for sure a red post stated before HoT even came out that f2p would not be able to enter the guild arena

Eponet.4829:

Triangulator.2867:

Small guilds, such as mine and OP’S, are able to keep up with similar organization and dedication. Failing to accomplish your goals is not the contents fault. But your own shortcomings. This is my problem. People unable to accomplish guild goals due to poor organization or lack of dedication crying foul.

From what people have told me, most of the guild missions are literally incapable of being completed in groups of less than three players, even if two players are able to complete the tasks that it gives, it just wont give them credit.

Pvp and wvw are impossible with less than 3, pve has no minimum just recommended.
(source: Me and my bro trying to two man everything)

The correct answer would be three, because showing sexy male abdomens is truly the way to go.

I don’t have a patch, didn’t have one yesterday day either iirc so it might be an older patch?

I remember playing Shadowbane with my Dad as a kid, and all the bridges in that game were the source of all evil. If you clipped the rails, your character would become magnetized to it and would be pulled back to the point of collision repeatedly. I was sad because it was n the beginning area and we just started, but a GM came and saved us. It was nice, and I’ve subconsciously avoid bridges in video games insofar as possible ever since.

That said, there probably isn’t enough manpower to come and save everyone all the time. Its an instance, so a fix to the instance would probably be best for everyone, as the GMs wouldn’t be able to save everyone which I’m sure would be opening a can of worms.

SkyShroud.2865:

Honestly, anet has been doing this kind of things for the past 3 years, is just the matter of scales. People did complain but eventually, people accept it. The most anet ever do is the just tweak it to make it slightly easier to obtain.

So, basically, we paid for early access to the game where anet is still doing all kinds of experiments.

I agree completely, which is why I start posting when these things show up to voice my continued concerns.

I do like Anet’s willingness to experiment and fill out the game (eg this round they tried to add more challenging content, skins for specific content and long term goals [all permanent thankfully!], which were things that have had plenty of requests for)

I just wish it wouldn’t cost my character/account/guild progress.

Not mine, found it on the interwebs, but here’s two decent elementalists claiming a guild hall

(Note: I agree with everyone who says the resetting of our abilities was bad, just wanted to show the OP it is possible to claim it (which is technically a new feature rather than a repackaged one, compared to all the upgrades you got to buy))

Ah I misunderstood, sorry I thought you meant the people who paid more post update. (I actually thought people with multiple got compensated considering how fast it went but you would know better than I). However, it still not comparable because they didn’t remove functionality from anyone who had it, they just didn’t acknowledge those who had multiple. So basically, different people paid different amounts, but they all kept their functionality and gained the new functionality that was inherent so couldn’t be separated (without extra work).
Guild halls removes functionality, it would be like if they took the tag away from those who had it so to speak, gave it some extras and used the extras to justify making all the previous owner repurchase, regardless of how many tags they have or for how long they’ve had them.
And now the “rich” players (which translate to the current situation as guilds with a strong enough market presence or have enough farmers) shrug and buy back their functionality and tell others to stop complaining.

So I say that this situation is worse than the commander tag, being more comparable to the “let’s reset the fractals because we want to add a leader board” on a larger scale (affects more people). And I’m bringing it up now because in a month or two, it’ll all be forgotten. Then next xpac/feature patch hits and it happens again (as this is a design decision) in a game of how often can we get people to pay for an altered, but ultimately repackaged thing designed to reset progress so the players will fill up part of their time with work to get back to where they were before the xpac.

It may be a small issue in the end, but I don’t agree with the idea behind it. I don’t want to see it becoming continuously more acceptable to take things away.

Guhracie.3419:

Snow.2048:

Its a princess outfit, it should stay a dress even on males. It would save so much design time making two appearances just because gender.

I actually have a female sylvari I’d buy the count’s outfit in a heartbeat for if she could wear the male version of it. She would rock that.

I feel your pain, the fact that the male and female versions don’t even look like they’re part of the same set irks me even further

I agree with you fully Triangulator, however the back and forth is over what, to me at least, seems to be a direct effect of the underlying problems both of us wish to bring to light. Therefore disregarding the complaints at this time is something I am unwilling to do and I am beginning to be vocal about it, as I do not always know which complaints are from actual lack of ability as you suggested (and I am sure there are plenty that fit the bill) or simply the last straw to some, or the aspect of the complexer problem that the persons complaining understands or notices the best so they only vocalize that aspect.

I do believe that the guild system as it is could have been a great(er) success, even with the costs, had all or even most of the effects given been actually new instead of the repackage. I think, that given a few months, my guild will probably again be at a really good place. The fact that it might take a few months is really a sore point though that makes me sympathetic to the cost complainers. I know my jaw almost dropped when I saw what it would take to restore functionality. If it was a cost to say earn something new, I’d simply have set it as a long term goal (eg pvp arena, the hall itself). Now its a question of survival for some guilds (luckily not mine) as they need to provide the buffs they had, and they needed to provide them on release date. So I am discussing on principle rather than necessity, in hopes of preventing similar events in the future (and nothing more than hope!)

As a closing sentence because I was actually going to sleep xD… I do not agree with the continuous resetting of progress and I do not agree with threads dedicated to closing dialogue, these remain personal opinions of mine but I will voice them for a time, particularly on threads that are made telling me to shut up in the meanwhile

SkyShroud.2865:

Yea, you can pretty much ignore Bloodstealer.5978. Much of his posts are simply aggressive and bias. He is not here to discuss, but here to demand.

@Snow.2048
If you had phrase your other posts in this manner, maybe people will respond to you better as many of the complains’ focus weren’t the reset of progress but rather the cost of the current progress and how the current cost of progress should be tweaked in a manner that benefit the smaller guilds. Naturally, when one start to ask to tweak to favor certain party, another party will begin to attack because they are being penalized.

Anet respond to the full upgraded guild is a loose conversion, some statues and upgrades unlock. Of course, there are people who bough influence and now their investment have gone to waste. However, this too apply to the changes made for commander tag when anet decided to make it account bound. People who bought 100g tag get to benefit account-wide tag while people who bought more than 1 tag are not given a full refund but a partial refund by using the 300g as the new standard cost. So, is it fair for the people who bought more than 1 tag when the others got their account-wide tag for 100g? Not really, anet respond is indifferent. So, in other words, you can be sure that anet respond to this is indifferent as well since anet is determine to push forward with this. People who realize that simply decided to move on.

I tend to focus on these things in my serious posts, or at least try to. Others sometimes do not, which is why I tried to be careful not to (mis)representative of them, I am sorry if I failed.

I would like to bring the hypothesis that, given that many people are complaining at the costs and given that much of the cost is related to restoring previous features, that a better grandfathering would go/have gone a long way in stilling/preventing a portion of these complaints as the players wouldn’t be gathering for restoration but for true progress of the guild itself.
I know that I for one, while tending towards the negative side, would be less sympathetic to other’s complaints of the actual costs if I actually still had my guilds formally essential features, for many of the same reasons presented by others as there is sound logic to them. This is, however, not the case and therefore the argument is being flooded with complaints back and forth of symptoms, and the underlying cause keeps getting buried.

As to your example, it is actually a decent one if we were to look at the whole feature instead of what you present, and add a new scenario that didn’t happen in reality but would be more accurate. The original plan with the account binding of the commander tag was to charge extra for the different colors as well as grandfathering the old tags to just have blue. There was huge backlash, and they changed their plan to what you present. Neither of the scenarios are actually akin to the guild halls.
Imagine if you would, if Arenanet decided instead to go with removing the tags from all commanders who had one, increased the price to rebuy them, but allowed the former commanders to still check supply. To regain functionality, they would have to invest more than their initial, on top of the burn that is they had feature removed from their character.
That would be more equivalent to the guild situation, and this is in mind why we should discuss this and not close the discussion (as this thread is actually on closing the discussion, and our continued opening of the discussion could be considered off-topic which was the original goal of my post to point the absurdity of, but I digress)

So what they did was a good grandfathering. What they planned was reasonable grandfathering, but met with great backlash for similar reasons that are being debated with great fervour throughout the forums on costs. What they could have done in the hypothetical was not good grandfathering, and would have inspired even greater backlash, which is in my mind the equivalent in so far as the comparison can be drawn to what has happened here.

I would prefer that they move to better grandfathering to make either the second or perhaps even the top bracket of the example.

Its a princess outfit, it should stay a dress even on males. It would save so much design time making two appearances just because gender.

I have my own sheets, and they calculate different scenarios with variables being set as poor to closer to ideal in order to give me an idea of the change of classes under different conditions. I don’t pretend they are close to reality, I wouldn’t dare show any good number cruncher proposing it as a viable alternative to their work ( I kinda make them once in a while just to practice my excel use). What it does do, however, is give me relative positions of different classes under certain circumstances, and which class feature does what for the class in terms of relative damage. With this I predict between what battle conditions I am about to face and choose a response that based on my data is more likely to be the proper response than blindly choosing.

All this theory crafting is compared to actual experience to test its validity, and the end decision is rarely based solely on the computed “best”, it is rather another factor to take into account.

For some of us (I’d almost like to say vets but don’t want to presume) its not the cost, not the stupid grind, those things are just the salt in the actual wound. Hell, half of my guys I’d bet on two manning most “challenging” parts of claiming a guild hall. The rest, well we have a few farmer/trader players as well and they’re very very good at gold/mat acquisition. So no, you are not unique in getting your guild hall, you are just blind to the other aspects, which I would personally consider to be the actual problems.

The real problem is the causal destruction of ingame progress, and for those of us who have been around longer its not the first time, and probably won’t be the last. We (and I assume you two as well) went from a maxed guild to starting over again to implement a new system with the bare minimum done to “grandfather” us in. Now we’re working our way back up, but I think we should at least be allowed to voice our concerns about resetting progress in an mmorpg.

This is just another reset of progress. That’s what needs to be called out and discussed imo. What also is often mentioned in my circles is the fact if your guild doesn’t have enough HoT players, say because you are a wvw guild and not enough people were interested in elite specs, your entire guild is wrecked until you start paying up for the pve xpac due to this reset. I’m not passing judgement, plenty of people will say that this was necessary I’m sure, while others disagree, but this kind of complaint is not related to the stupid gold sink you pretend is the only thing going on. The mats are a big thing, but that’d be ok like you say, if it wasn’t just for buying back basic abilities we already had. Another point being brought up relative to the guild reset, someone else on the forums eloquently put “gutting” the core game to have stuff to repackage to try to justify the xpacs price tag. These are big discussion points, whether you like it or not and regardless on which side of the discussion you fall.

Just because you have the money to buy in, and the supplies to build a big guild hall doesn’t mean you can invalidate a population with various real concerns about the design decisions made and the suddenness of having a fully upgraded guild torn from underneath your feet… In fact, even if it was just a problem about mats, I’m not sure where you get the gall to order others to stop discussing it.

Your actual arguments add to the discussion for your side, but your attempt to shut down a multi-facet discussion because you found the silver-lining to a single aspect is ridiculous.

CureForLiving.5360:

Arantheal.7396:

question, do you run full zerker gear?

Yeah my thinking too. If you go zerker and arn’t very good you’ll be slapped around a lot XD

Fixed that for you. If you arn’t good enough to zerker in an unknown environment, then don’t.

In a week or two, everyone and their dog will be able to run the new areas in high damage gear again after a quick google search.

I was actually expecting it to work this way since it was announced… I got the feeling from the blogs that they were targeting wvw GvG and people wanting to duel in pve in an attempt to meet these groups half way.

The custom arena stuff was the pvp version of these in the more controlled pvp environment
(I know neither of these actually reach the expectations of many people, just mentioning)

I love having goals to slowly work towards as a guild, I really do. We worked hard for our MAXED out guild together and had fun together doing so.

Now we lost most of our abilities, need to re-earn them. But we can’t re-earn them just by playing any more since influence is gone. We need to actively farm junk to just get back to previous levels. That’s the problem. Its not whining about how hard it is (its not hard anyway, its just boring as snap), its a valid complaint that we’ve lost major progress. Large guilds are able to re-earn the stuff quick. Good for them, I am happy for them.
Us small guilds, we can’t earn it back quick. That is why we are upset. We (my guild) don’t want to earn guild halls and newest shinies as fast as large guilds, we don’t want you to nerf the levels or anything like that. We just want at least some of our most used abilities, or their new equivalent (since they just delete old abilities to give um a new name and changed usage [it’d be like requiring repurchase of commander tags because they added squad upgrades to it]), back. How hard is it to get that through people’s skulls? We want our building cheap siege that we’ve had for YEARS back, we want our buffs that we’ve kept up for YEARS back and yes we are impatient, but this is because we ALREADY HAD them for YEARS.
We want to earn our guild hall and features, butdeleting everyone’s progress and calling it “new” is complete bull. (we are very happy we still have all our bank upgrades, this is an example of good grandfathering)

(I capitalized some words to help bring them message across because I got sick of people posting this kind of bull all over the forums. Sorry for those who’s feelings are hurt by this, have a friendly face )

Hey guys,

Was wondering if anyone else was having problems with the easy pvp guild mission, win a match of stronghold. We did everything right I think (first start mission, then queued for stronghold, then beat the other team) but got no reward and a mission failed a bit later. We won’t be able to try again today to see if it persists (if we can even convince those pve scallywags to tag along again) so I wanted to see if this was a common issue.

Details:
5 man full guild team
Stronghold unranked
Won on points at timeout roughly 300-100 (Enemy lord 67%, our outer door at 10%)
No individual rewards nor guild rewards given for mission, failed on timer.
Everyone did get victory rewards
Yes we definitely started mission first, even before queueing.

Thanks
Snow

I was more aiming at an extended they took out gold sinks then (forever ago) to justify adding them now being a bit tinfoily, my own personal theory is that they actually haven’t been working on HoT for that long judging by what I’ve been seeing so far on the forums and fansites =P

For the rest of what you said, it matches my feelings as well. I just rolled my eyes at the gem store exclusive skins that only someone would only get full use of if they had just bought the xpac coming out of the release day of the xpac, didn’t all of those buyers just pay you xD

I thought you said no trollin… ooooohhh fool me once shame on you! =P