Guild Wars 2

JonPeters.5630:

Let me try and clarify myself a bit more. Death Shroud is very powerful because it gives Necromancer access to a secondary health bar which is is much more reliably renewable than normal health is for other professions. On top of that it essentially also gives them a 3rd weapon set that they can use to circumvent the basic weapon swap cooldown to reliably bounce between powerful skills in 3 different sets. For both of these reasons, Necromancer has a high power ceiling but also an extremely high learning curve.

In the current condition heavy meta-game, there is a lot of condition removal. The problem this is causing for Necromancers is that they do not have a lot of build diversity in this meta, because they don’t have any great power builds they can turn to. What I would like to try and do is increase build diversity without increasing effectiveness because I don’t believe we have really seen what strong Necromancers can do yet.

Hopefully that explains a bit where we stand. We are still working towards getting rid of all of the bugs in everyone’s skills and traits at which point we can get a much better idea of where everyone stands. That time will also give us the chance to see where the large amount of current players actually takes the meta game.

Jon

This is a bit disappointing.

Death shroud is the antithesis to the major deciding factor in every fight, TTK. DS prolongs your inevitable death without offering any sort of condition-based damage (the only thing we can sorta do well) or (if you were foolish enough to go crit/power) offers any serious DD dps. In PvE, it’s a great tanking ability. In PvP, it’s a red flag that a necromancer is about to die.

Also,

*What about our poor weapon-skill abilities/damage?
*Broken minions?
*Auto-attack speed of staff?
*Lack of any synergy in trait lines?
*Useless traits (jagged horrors and Shrouded Removal come to mind)?

And the list goes on. It’s not just bugs, it’s the class itself.

Fadeway.3592:

. I’m not feeling any rampant sexism (that’s a pretty strong word, don’t you think?)

Greneth may as well be running the underworld branch of Dunder-Miflin. I hear they just had another diversity in the work place seminar.

sorrow.2364:

Necros has much more problems to focus on at the moment, imo.
After they have fixed the bunch of bugs and balance issues the Necro has, they may reduce the Lich dimension or just dump that horrible big green thing and replace it with a cool reaper form with the same skills.

I agree with this. This sort of thing is an aesthetics issue (much like our poor minion graphics). We can address the sexism that’s running rampant through the fictional underworld when our traits work.

Eochaidh.4106:

I have no issues in PvP. I usually get top or close to top score on my necro even in tournaments. Of course I could do a lot better were it not for all of the glitches.

And yes, I miss the hunched necro, it was a nice visual.

You get less points for kills.

Condition build + minion utilities is the way to go. I’m not sure if the minion traits really change their damage or survivability, however, the minion recharge skill would be worth taking if you’re intent on hurting yourself rolling with minions. The guy who brought up dungeons is correct, they’re mostly useless. I tried using some to hold one of the lovers attention in the catacombs but he killed them so fast it just wasn’t worth it.

I’m not sure if this is a bug or intentional, but necrotic grasp is far to slow. 9 out of every 10 fired shots are either misses or obstructions due in large part to the slow speed of the projectile. Most characters can outrun our projectile, that doesn’t seem reasonable on an otherwise decent weapon.

Edit: This applies to other “hand” projectiles as well, specifically spectral grasp.

Sith.1598:

Plague form is not meant to be great dmg, (although when you add up all the AE it turns out to be decent) it’s more for group fighting. You hit than and run into an enemy group spamming ‘Plague of Darkness’ and their damage output goes way down. Your allies will be able to push right up with very little retaliation. Then when the enemy realize they are getting beat, they turn to run, and that’s when you spam cripple. Choke points are needed, but it’s incredibly effective.
This doesn’t even cover the survivability benefits.

Indeed, it can also really push back enemy lines, cause an entire group to waste long CD attacks and it stops stragglers dead in their tracks for your vicious horde of fellow WvWer’s to take some righteous vengeance on. Flesh Golem isn’t a terrible idea though.. I just prefer him more for general PvE roaming because while he does have slightly better A.I. than the rest of our pets, he’s still very prone to just going idle.

roachsrealm.9284:

what’s everyone complaining about? I’m loving my necro and I’m not having any problems enjoying the game. I can solo anything but a champion and I can run across whole zones quickly. What’s not to like?

Most PvE content in this game can be solo’d in a golem suit or while transformed as a moa. PvE is inconsequential in regards to the performance and viability of this class.

Hello all!

Myrmidons of Kryta [MOK] are actively seeking members for all aspects of Guild Wars 2. Although the likely end-game of the guild will probably see emphasis put on WvW, GW2 is the first game in a long time where the PvE game has garnered our attention. As such, we’re interested in pursuing all the fun features of this game. Currently we’re quite small (with about 5 regular members), however, these five members have forged bonds over the last decade of gaming together that will serve to keep the guild active.

Our goal is to acquire just enough people that allows us to be an effective and coordinated force in PvP, as well as having the manpower to make some of the games more challenging PvE content available without spamming map chat for party invitations. We have no interest in becoming a large guild, over the years we’ve found having a more modest member count to make things more personable.

We currently offer:

• We have all tier 2 research benefits
• We have a guild emblem
• We have guild bank storage
• We have guild armor contracts
• We have a vent channel
• We have many buffs and banners ready for use.
• A friendly environment, that doesn’t pressure you into anything you don’t want to participate in.
• And members with several years of gaming and guild management experience.

We’re looking for:

• Members with an active interest in WvW. Specifically guerrilla warfare, logistics support and enemy harassment. I will stress that this is not the primary function of the guild, but we see this content as having the best shot at longevity.
• The desire to be apart of a small and personable community.

Contacts:
Turok Darkstar
Kyias Lightsun
Malikus
Seros Skylighter

If you have any questions, feel free to contact any of the above members in game with mail or whisper. You can also leave a post here.

Thanks!

Great post, Mathemagician.

Toughness — sustained damage (which doesn’t really happen in pvp currently, good for pve though).
Vitality – Everything else (especially burst and conditions).

You catch more flies with honey approach, eh? =)

Haha, I still have a great deal of faith in Arenanet. I’m sure major fixes/overhauls are in the works for our class. Until then, we should list and document all complaints and problems clearly and without any (or to much!) negativity.

hyzus.7023:

when will people understand that this game is about team balance not 1v1 balance, Necros are extreamly powerful in groups we provide alot of debuffs and combo fields, meaning other classes can take advantage of this and kill the enemy team easier.

I’ve seen no official post stating that each classes must rely on each other to be successful. I’m actually surprised to see this tauted so early, usually people will resort to this desperate defense after all L2P arguements have been exhausted.

Here’s the thing, PvP in this game is multifaceted. SPvP and WvW both offer numerous circumstances where 1v1 is inescapable. In those scenarios, it’s usually necromancer that’s at a disadvantage. This has to do with missing trait-line synergy, underpowered minor/major traits, weak weapon skills (or poorly designed weapon skills), and multiple unrealistic builds (daggers, axe/warhorn, minions, wells, life-leech etc..). And let’s not forget about how we’re compelled to spec a cookie-cutter build.

As I’ve said before, if this game IS about strict team-play — than the power/crit necromancer who joins a game in SPvP is hurting his team by denying a slot to a warrior, or a guardian or just about any other class.

Sorry to hear that.

Skliros.1058:

Shelledfade.6435:

I want to be able to own other players with damage and it should be a build we can go into. It’s not.

No class should have to rely on OTHER classes to be effective unless that is the build you choose. This is the problem.

Ignoring the abusive part here. You need to pick a different class. In GW1, the necromancer was a supporting class. There were a couple good damage builds, like there are here, but overall it was a supporter. In GW2, the necromancer has kept its original theme, which Arenanet has been abundantly clear about in all the releases about the profession. Guild Wars 2 is not a solo game. There is no solo PvP for a good reason. Not a single one of the classes is meant to exceed all by itself. It’s in the name: Guild Wars. A guild is a large group of people unified by a cause. Go get yourself a couple good friends, queue up, and enjoy the game as it was designed to be played. Or keep running solo into organized teams and dying horribly. My guess is you’re rolling a Warrior or Guardian right now, and you’ll die horribly with those, too. Teamwork, dude. It’s how you win games.

It seems that necromancer is the odd duck out within this balance philosophy. Most classes can solo PvP without having to rely on synergy with other professions. They can also trait themselves for heavy team support/dependency. Necromancer is forced into dependency through conditions or less viable DD axe/dagger MH builds. But really, the biggest issue isn’t that we need others to carry us — it’s that alternatives to squishy conditionmancer are poor. We have one competitive cookie-cutter build for PvP, everything else is just an easy kill.

If the point of SPvP is teamwork, synergy and cohesion — the DD axe/dagger MH necromancer is hurting their team by denying a spot to a DD thief, or a warrior, or a mesmer, or a power/crit engineer, or a guardian, etc.. Classes that are much more proficient at dealing direct damage.

Skliros.1058:

Terok.7315:

However, I would like some clarification on the idea of “intended roles” as it would clear up a lot of my concerns. I was under the impression (from playing other classes and reading dev interviews over the months) that there are no “intended roles” in the sense that class X is pigeon holed into role Y.

I think I used the wrong phrasing there. I didn’t mean a role as in tank/healer/dps. I see the role of the necromancer as a whole as leaning heavily towards the supporting side of things. We have pure DPS builds, sure. Axe is awesome in the right hands. But the damage from it won’t be as good as, say, an elementalist. We can, however, assist groups and turn the tide of large fights better than almost any other class or build. We can heal, we can AoE bleed, we can blind, we can cripple, we can chill, and we can throw conditions back into people’s faces. And we can do it all at the same time, with tons of mobility. One necromancer in a group can make the whole party hit a whole heck of a lot harder, and THAT is our role. Did that clear it up?

Ok, this is what I thought — and I wasn’t implying dps/tank/heal when I used the word “role”. Basically, I’m talking about versatility. We can all offer team support within the mechanics of our respective classes. These types of support builds rely exclusively on others doing the actual killing, however, our class should also be capable of carrying itself without relying on others should we choose a different spec that supports that type of play. Necromancer is the only class I’ve played that just doesn’t allow for this.

Mostly because of poor trait placement decisions, underpowered weapon skills and few utility skills that would support non-condition based builds. And if our gimmick is condition based damage, then minions, the axe and daggers need to reflect this. Vulnerability and an underpowered life-leech aren’t all that useful.

Skliros.1058:

Sigma.9746:

I think our Trait lines need serious rework.

I definitely agree with this, and with the rest of your post. The traits are pretty scattered, and I usually end up making sacrifices with my traits that I feel other classes don’t have to make. My overall point is that although there are quite a few things that could stand a buff or some overhauling, we are certainly not a useless class, and we excel at the role we were intended for.

Indeed, we aren’t useless. I think our collective success in SPvP and WvW is a testament to that. However, I would like some clarification on the idea of “intended roles” as it would clear up a lot of my concerns. I was under the impression (from playing other classes and reading dev interviews over the months) that there are no “intended roles” in the sense that class X is pigeon holed into role Y.

The other classes I’ve tested seemed to indicate that we’re able to pick a class that’s fun, and build it to our liking (warrior, engineers, thief, mesmer and ranger are some that I’ve briefly tried). I understand that each class has a gimmick or is stronger at certain aspects (engineers are awesome control and support, mesmers are force multipliers, necromancers spread and micromanage conditions, etc..), but I didn’t think we were locked into a certain role. That just seems to jive with everything I’ve tested and read.

I could be wrong though, I just wish an authority would say one way or the other for some clarification.

http://www.teamparadigm.net/forums/Necromancer/374/The-Sorry-State-of-the-Necromancer-in-SPvP-Long-Post/

And the projectiles speed could use a speed buff.

Anudieb.2450:

Terok.7315:

There are some valid points the OP makes, but I’m not throwing in the towel just yet.

My problem is that I cannot build my character to be balanced. I want decent damage and decent survivability (preferably with some synergy). The class doesn’t allow for this, it’s tank, damage or go home. Ironically, our glass cannon builds (D/D, Axe/Focus, Condtion Scepter/Dagger) don’t exactly make up for the loss of survivability. All our builds rely on others to carry us, to let us stand back or get lost in the fray.

And then there’s minions.. Perhaps when the A.I. is fixed with competitive PvP in mind (or just fixed) it might pay to go full tank. But then there’s the matter of greater trait and trait line synergies…

well i will talk for me, with dead shroud and the elite skill, and remember that you can break stuns, pass conditions to the enemy and use fear i think necro is very sustainable..

I’m aware of the classes gimmicks and control abilities (which, consequentially are quite lacking). My problem is that you cannot build your character with some level of balance a la warrior. Warrior is an excellent class that lives up to the “build your character how you want” slogan. You can put out decent damage whilst maintaining a respectable amount of survivability. You can also sacrifice that survivability for a more glass cannon build and so on. It’s an extremely versatile class.

Necromancer pigeon holes you into a single role, most of which you won’t excel at in comparison to other classes save conditions. But even with conditions, you lose any sort of survivability. Death shroud can only do so much (or little as it were). I’m not suggesting that necromancers are irrelevant in PvP (well, at least the conditionmancer isn’t), but that we don’t have the options that other classes do. Which makes the class a bit boring to play.

There are some valid points the OP makes, but I’m not throwing in the towel just yet.

My problem is that I cannot build my character to be balanced. I want decent damage and decent survivability (preferably with some synergy). The class doesn’t allow for this, it’s tank, damage or go home. Ironically, our glass cannon builds (D/D, Axe/Focus, Condtion Scepter/Dagger) don’t exactly make up for the loss of survivability. All our builds rely on others to carry us, to let us stand back or get lost in the fray.

And then there’s minions.. Perhaps when the A.I. is fixed with competitive PvP in mind (or just fixed) it might pay to go full tank. But then there’s the matter of greater trait and trait line synergies…

Reported it. Bugged for me as well.

Massive balance (nerfs AND buffs) changes are needed across all professions, starting with thief.

Seems bugged on Blackgate

If you intend to play necromancer for the minions, there’s little help we can offer you. In almost every respect the minions are terrible choices for utility slots. They do low damage, their on demand abilities are extremely poor (or simply won’t execute without an excessive delay) with comical cooldowns. The cooldowns on resummoning with the minions poor health in mind leave you vulnerable for most fights. And this of course assumes that your pets have decided to actually attack your enemy. Which 60% of the time they’ll just stand around and ignore any threats (or draw aggro from enemies you don’t want to engage). And lets not forget minion health regeneration which is absent, forcing you to resummon minions in the first 2 seconds of a fight because the last encounter left you with pets at 5% health.

I was also drawn to this profession for the pets, but they just don’t work at all. Even as suicide-bombers with death nova, they’re just lacking in combat effectiveness. The only pet that is even considered decent is the flesh golem elite, and only because his knock-back works sometimes. My advice is to spec for conditions, which no other class can do as well as necromancers. It’s extremely boring, but it’s very competitive.

WvW will be the end-game for my guild (and many others I imagine). I think WvW needs to be rebalanced to support larger numbers.

I filed a bug report about this today. Extremely irritating that auto-attack isn’t remembered. Just one more thing you need to do while juggling between kits.