Guild Wars 2

ODB.6891:

Andele.1306:

I think you need to go trough the basic game design course, the core 3 elements thay may never clash (and with clash i mean contradict based on genre) are: enjoyment in gameplay/fun, challenge one must overcome/difficulty and Foundation in development/good pacing, story, mechancs that help the gameplay, controls, etc
In a mmo (and mugs that created the mmorpg genre) the point of PvE isnt to “make most dps in least amount of time” or farm for something, but to have a expirience that is difficult enough for you to say “Hell yeah, im kitten!” when you finish it, fun enough not to make you smash the controler/keyboard/mouse/whatever you use to play in a enviorment that allows for social interaction because of the chaos factor the play brings.
Great example of that was AQ40 in WoW, till you got to the last 2 bosses, everything all 40 people did was actually influencing the fight, because the bosses at their core were quite simple (help the person mind controlled/dont get yourself, dont stand in ooze, kite swarm till boss is invul for a phase so that you dont enrage him, etc) and how prepared the players were made fights harder/easier, but that didnt mean a actual gear check, instead having consumables up, chosing the right skills/build and rotations.

My post was about performance factors in what makes players want a particular class/profession in challenging pve content versus other possible classes/professions. This game makes those factors decidedly different from a game like wow (your AQ40 reference) because wow revolved around the mmo trinity (tank/healing/dps)…in which you actually wanted dedicated healers and tanks…both of which did minimal to no dps. GW2 does not reward groups that carry members doing minimal to no dps as the content is cleared much faster and efficiently if all group members provide a significant amount of damage. Yes, you can and yes people do clear the content with suboptimal damage output…but it is slower.

This is exactly what we’ve been saying, the content is the problem. High damage classes are given special preference over any other build because the content doesn’t necessitate anything beyond “moar damage”. More niche and specific builds aren’t needed because the best way to add support, survivability and debuffs is to kill as quickly as humanly possible.

The content itself is the problem. :/

All I’m trying to say is that currently the necromancer seems to be less of a benefit to a party than the majority of other options. If you had options on which class to fill your 5th group spot..would you really choose a necromancer over a guardian, warrior, mesmer, elementalist, etc?

Necromancer isn’t a special case, it’s not being singled out. All classes with the exception of warrior (a soldier armor class designed for damage) are undesirable. Given the choice to fill the fifth team slot with either a healing guardian or a support necromancer I’d choose neither, both pale in comparison to a zerker warrior (to answer this question seriously, I wouldn’t have any special preference if we already had 4 zerker warriors. What does it matter? We could probably 4 man it.). This is the stale meta of which the boss mechanics created.

Necro could use some quality of life adjustments, but it will only ever really shine when the problem with the content itself is addressed.

Edit: Read some of these comments. You can find more examples by using google. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guardian-PVT-or-Zerker/page/3#post2603984

Thank God anet didn’t introduce any gear checks yet.

spoj.9672:

PvE is all about dps and currently necro’s dont have enough to contribute to that

Exactly, the content itself is the problem. If the game had a little more depth and mechanics like defiant didn’t discourage support oriented roles, other classes (not just necromancer) would become more desirable to group compositions. Necromancer is not meant to deal the most damage just as guardian or engineer isn’t meant to deal the most damage. We all have specific mechanics and designs that let us excel at different areas of the game.

The problem is outside of PvP these unique class traits aren’t required and very rarely add a convenience factor to group fights. Time to kill is the primary idea people have in mind when forming groups for speedruns or when they want to clear content with as few hiccups as possible. Tanks, debuffers and healers are the real liability, not glassy zerkers. It’s because survivability it ultimately dependent on how fast the mobs die.

I get the feeling that people are reading “Necromancer is completely fine, it’s just the game that’s the problem”. I’m not saying that, necromancer could use a few quality of life changes (especially our poor pve minion masters). Though the core of the problem lies in the design of the instances themselves. If they want to ignore that and just buff necromancers so that they’re as good as warriors in pve (i.e. moar damage), they’ll end up breaking necromancers original design. We’ll end up just like warriors, facerolling content while trying to keep ourselves from falling asleep during a boss fight.

Pendragon.8735:

Only a WvW player will wonder why their mode feels like the red headed step child of the game, when it is the best thing it has going.

Necromancer isn’t the problem where PvE is concerned, the content itself is the problem. Damage is king and necromancer isn’t meant to do the most damage.

Silver.4798:

EDIT: Also, the tool tip for Well of Power says converts conditions of allies into boons, does this mean if you have multiple conditions it gets converted to multiple boons, and does “allies” include “self” too? Because if that is the case I think I really like this Well of Power skill!

Well of power pulses intermittently converting a condition into a boon and it does affect yourself as well. It will not instantly convert all conditions into boons.

Are other people able to see this or just you?

I don’t really have a strong proclivity towards either option. Sometimes I prefer to go it alone and sometimes I prefer to do group activities with friends. I really don’t like doing any group content with strangers (though I suppose when you’re PUGing it’s the same as going it alone, lol.).

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Blood is Power is useless for the bleeds against players, let me put it to you this way: I could have a 12 minute bleed that killed anyone who kept it on them, but exactly whom is going to ‘allow’ me to keep a 12 minute bleed on them? In today’s meta, you will see constant cleanses and passive cleanses, it’s not worth taking.

I really don’t think conditionmancers are taking BiP for the 2 or 4 extra bleeds (though they’re nice). It’s for damage ticks.

flow.6043:

The reason for this is that there’s too much aoe in WvW/PvP already, and with the necro’s good access to aoe the staff probably won’t get this buff.

We have good AOE because of the trait which forces us to take the trait. Without the trait, you can hardly call the staff “AOE”. Sure, it’s possible to hit more than 1 target untraited — but extremely difficult (bordering on impossible depending on the circumstances). Get rid of the trait and increase base size — then do whatever the heck you want with unblockable. The only thing that would change as a result of this is more build diversity.

Maybe they’re worried about mark of evasion with those extra 10 points? I don’t know, it doesn’t seem to make any sense.

So.. don’t release the living story as permanent content because a hypothetical minority of mouth breathers would assume the fetal position when presented with an abundance of content.. Seems like overreaching to me. :/

The old one was incredibly disorganized, I prefer this version.

I’m having the same problem.

BlueSoda.6297:

slaney.4250:

BlueSoda.6297:

Azure Prower.8701:

I’m pretty sure the buggy/laggy mechanics are preventing those who are not local to the servers from doing well in this race.

Is it fair they get a handicap and never able to obtain the one time only achievement just because you’re “competing” for a reward you already have? Preventing any one else from getting it once you have it is simply being mean. There is no reason to come first after you got it the first time.

I’m not competing for a reward, I’m competing for fun. This is a game, and I would like it to be played fairly so I can have fun. I actually like the race, but when people cheat like this it really hurts us all.

How is somebody pulling up short of the finish line to allow another to get 1st place and the achievement hurting anyone? It doesn’t affect the position we finish in one bit

It’s match fixing, it’s not allowed in pvp or wvw, so why is it suddenly okay here? Do we just change the rules of the game when it suits us now? It affects people who want to have a fair and challenging race to the end for fun.

If people are smacking talking you for playing the game the way it was intended you should change instances or simply ignore them. That’s not right, but there isn’t much you can do about it. With that said, it’s perfectly fine that people want their friends to share in their achievements and fun. It’s a silly and temporary mini-game unrelated to the main content of GW2 that will soon be gone.

Nothing to really make an issue out of.

Sooo, is lag affecting aspects or is there just no rhyme or reason to how they work? Following the videos on dulfy.net precisely (And I do mean precisely, I position my character and place my cursor exactly how they are in the videos) in places where you use the lightening aspect for example, I’m jumping about ten miles further than the person in the video. I’ve noticed that sometimes there’s an extra distance added to the lightening aspect — the animation appears to be losing momentum when all of a sudden you pick up speed and are thrown just a little farther and it’s not something I can always recreate.

At 1:18 in this video you’ll see the player use a lightening aspect to jump to the next pole. I placed my character and cursor exactly as in the video and made it. The next several times I attempted that same jump I ended up somewhere in Queensdale. So is this lag? Is anyone else experiencing this?

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xDexWAdQlu8#at=81

Edit: Well I think I figured it out. After a restart and loading into a less populated map the aspect works perfectly fine. Seems like lag can make them act incredibly erratic.

Zelyhn.8069:

There are very little rewards in this game, so why play the easy way that brings nothing at the end and nothing on the way?

Gold.

Rewards from different challenges can be bought (i.e. RNG items, precursors, etc..). You gear your characters with gold, you purchase consumables with gold, you finish achievements with gold (miniature collector, golden, etc..), you gain access to gemstore goods with gold, you win WvW with gold, and the list goes on. Currently there is no fun or efficient way to make a reasonable amount of gold aside from dungeons (or if you are talented enough to play the TP). Because people have bills to pay, they want to make gold as quickly as possible with the least amount of work involved.

Kill all the bosses as quickly as possible, collect your earnings and enjoy the game with your newly bought shiny.

Lumn.2951:

I enjoy using vampiric runes for the mist form effect, you also get to use your heal or deathshroud to attack or soak up condition damage while being in mist form.

This.

Mist form can save your life, it also allows for a little forgiveness if you get overzealous and extend to far. Saved my life over a dozen times in the last two hours in WvW, couldn’t even begin to count how much over the past few months.

Karizee.8076:

http://gw2lfg.com/

It works. 5,412,665 groups formed with this tool in the few short months it’s been out.

That site is not an adequate solution. I run into more pugs that aren’t aware of that site than are.

I leveled a guardian to 80 hitting “2” on the greatsword. With that said, I found my necromancer fairly easy to level whereas my mesmer/ele alts were and are a pain for me.

Doggie.3184:

Terok.7315:

Rated T for teens.

Teens know what blood is

That is correct.

Rated T for teens.

Edit: At least that seems to be the most plausible explanation for the lack of blood in an action mmo.

Astralporing.1957:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

by the way,
i think it is very wrong to call people who PvP in PvP area griefers.

Yes, but it’s completely okay to call people who grief in PvP areas griefers. Griefers are, in general, completely uninterested in PvP. For them to be interested, killings must be completely one-sided. And most of campers in WvW JP’s are griefers, not PvP’s.

I’ve always found griefing to be an effective instigator for PvP. Don’t get mad, get even.

Unfortunately in my case, the death of Orr spelled the death of open world pve for me. I’m not really interested in jumping from meta to meta for a rare that sells for 25s or so. The real heart-breaker is that I just recently finished my MF suit. Oh well.

I never expected any different. Every mmo developer plans for the console but eventually scraps the idea. I wish mmo companies would stop trying to breakthrough the console market — the ancient and limited tech of consoles only serves to hurt PC gamers.

The axe we have is just barely thematic(imo), I’m not sure we need another iteration of it. With that said, Spoj’s idea is pretty neat.

Welcome to video gaming, make a norn.

The condition transfer and extra AOE (ranged) attack was important to me in both ZvZ and roaming. I don’t know why but WH has always felt gimmicky to me.

GuzziHero.2467:

Reminds me of…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyT5_NE8sKk

I approve!

Not sure what this is, but WvW needs it!

Hope everything works out, Palu. Thanks for being apart of our community.

Blaine Tog.8304:

I feel as if some of you aren’t reading my posts in full and getting all defensive over nothing. Though I suppose that doesn’t really surprise me. All I’ll say for clarification is that this new spec sucks to play against and doesn’t feel like Necro attrition to play. I don’t think it’s overpowered exactly, but it’s lopsided and needs adjustment.

It probably doesn’t surprise you because the spvp and necromancer forums have been flooded with hysteria and ridiculous claims since the patch. Most necromancers agree that it’s to much, and a thief feigning love of the class so he can take potshots at it doesn’t help at all.

I demand a link to the thread that claimed golem was to survivable and annoying! ..Well the annoying part may be right.

“Duh watcha doin bossman?”
“I’m freaking fighting for my life, a little help here?!”
“Duh but bossman theres dez perrty flowas over here!”

flow.6043:

Cmon, enough with the Altroll bashing.

I agree with him on this, the necro wasn’t bad before the patch.

The necro was never bad, it was mediocre.

1. PvE content outside of dungeons is unrewarding and often uninteresting. The game needs more fluff that you can mix in with your dungeon running (customizable housing would be an excellent start) and it needs to have an improved rewards system.
2. Group finder.
3. Temporary content. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want halloween content year around — I just look at it more like the icing and not the cake. My interest is renewed with more meatier and permanent content. I’m just not sure how much longer I’ll chase after these holographic wing carrots. Lot’s of food references for this one.

This is getting ridiculous.

The developers will analyze the data and trends and determine what needs to be readjusted. I can promise you that these trolls threads don’t make any difference to those determinations because (like here) they’re often filled with nonsensical, exaggerated, and/or ridiculous claims (or they’re simply obnoxious without a shred of useful or constructive information). Be assured that most of us look forward to the nerf’s so that these incessant juvenile threads stop plaguing our community.

Customizable housing would probably be a major boon for the game in many ways. I remember all the time and money spent by SWG players trying to obtain different unique or rare decor items. Can’t see the GW2 community being any different with people running around with Birfrosts and those fugly holo wings.

All I ask is people stop making short quips like, “lol necro is broken” and explain why you feel the necromancer’s offense is to much or perhaps explain in what areas the necromancer can be adjusted. Necromancer is now a force to be reckoned with and I don’t want to see us nerf’d back into oblivion because of knee jerk reactions and players that neglect condition removal because all they’re concerned about are (ironically) no-skill thieves.

I’m all for balance, you should be to.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Terok.7315:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Terok.7315:

carlos the dwarf.1038:

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

So we were awful at conditions and had “potential” at power/bunkering..? Ok then!

Yes, we did.

Believe me, I’m not gonna argue with that.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Terok.7315:

carlos the dwarf.1038:

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

Necromancers were good before patch, they simply took far more skill. The biggest mistake you could make on trying to run a prepatch Necro was thinking they were good at conditions, prepatch Necromancers were terribad at them compared to other classes, however we had alot of potential in power/bunkering areas. Unfortunately, this patch is more or less for the facerolling masses that don’t know how to play. Now Necro is OP.

So we were awful at conditions and had “potential” at power/bunkering..? Ok then!

carlos the dwarf.1038:

As a long suffering necro, this thread might just be the best and worst thing I’ve ever had to read on this forum

Suffering necro? lol, l2p. Necro’s were insanely good before the patch, that’s why nobody played them.

Wait..

AndrewSX.3794:

New target aquired.

Spvp QQers crossfire starting in 3…2…1…

Gl with that Necs.

/Mes

It’s frustrating but part of me is enjoying it. We’re taken seriously now. As long as anet doesn’t give in to the shenanigans I’ll be happy to accept (the undeserved and hilarious) title of OP. I just hope they still haven’t remembered that we have zero mobility and severely limited access to DS as a condition necro.

JonasV.4209:

I find it both sad and amusing that when we get a patch that buffs us and brings us closer to balance with most of the other classes we immediately expect to be nerfed and worry about being op.

I have been a using a power/well build for a long time and after moving some points around yesterday I settled on 0/10/10/20/30 with Death Perception. Torment is a real boon for locking people down and landing wells. Death Perception is really nice and combined with the new LB scaling I can spend more time in DS without feeling like a drain. All around boost for me, but I still get eaten alive by cc just like before. We are definitely doing better, but we are certainly not op.

Also, I have been stomping thieves long before this patch because I have enough def to eat the burst and still be able to go after them. Prior to the patch they would just reset and run or die. Now if I get shackles off they just die.

I think everyone is just overwhelmed by the contrast of then and now. It’s either that or the developers did more psychological damage than anyone had realized.

TheStarflyer.9641:

pretty nice that necro at the end was just awful..
#magSWAG

Yea s/he went down like a ton of bricks. Though we’re all noobs at some point.

Symbolic.7910:

necros are op yes, many people are just in denial.

Perhaps, but could you explain why you think necromancer is overpowered now (or more overpowered than any other class that hasn’t been in beta for ten months)?

zach.1847:

There’s soo gonna be a nerf next patch.

I think we’re all just new to this level of power, let’s see how it all plays out.

Fear on spectral wall?! In my day we had to get by with vulnerability!

Good job, Anet!

Perhaps my excitement is getting the better of me, but this patch seems to have both improved and diversified condition specs. So far I’m generally happy with how this all turned out. I’ve been trying all sorts of build variations with dumbfire and its really nice having that burn. I must have tried over a dozen different specs with it since the patch released (not to any significant extent, mind you) and most of them have just been so fun. I can’t wait to see how the power-based builds have been improved.

Long story short, this is the first time I haven’t been cynical about a patch.

Rennoko.5731:

Are you kidding me? Did you read the notes? Our base fear is .5 seconds longer…. that is something… fear on spectral wall….

Scaling on vampiric…. which is great…. no I am happy with this…. so much work to do though.

Well keep us informed. I’m interested to see how creative the builds get.

Haha, the mists are filled with necros right now.

I’m not really stressing about the specifics of this condition (aside from the CD, I wish it was more available), in the end it’s one more condition to protect other more damaging or useful effects.

It does seem like they’re (still) pushing for hybrid builds amongst necromancers. Oh well, we’ll just have to see what anet gives us tomorrow. Can’t be any worse than… I’ll just stop there.