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Same concept as Resistance Boon.
Everyone seems ok with resistance giving 100% damage reduction to conditions.
Yea, resistance IS fine as is.
What, you want to be able to kill people with 3.5k armor and 30k health? (trailblazers in some builds.) Jesus.
No, if you want to go full cancer mode, then you don’t deserve a free kill so easily with trailblazers or dire. Have you thought of using a boon strip skill in addition to your full cancer mode stats?
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Sure, but only if my big power hits can also break your bones so your movement and skills are cut by 66%, puncture your lung so that your healing is reduced by 33%, and cause brain swelling so you take massive damage when you try to use skills.
Oh, and I need to be able to take vitality as a gear stat instead of ferocity with no loss of crit damage.
Sound fair?
This guy gets it. Thank you.
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Epi isn’t a problem, deal with it.
Sure… not a problem… yeah…
the issue isnt condition aplication or anything the issue is the current form or resistance the boon is like an open door for this kimd of strats if tjey remove it from the game this problem will sieze to exist. Dont nerf a skill into the ground because of an easily exploitable and poorly thought out boon.
Easily exploitable? What, by 1 skill? Hahaha. Yea.
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the issue is not epidemic the issue is how resistance works and how it got in the game without proper testing.
Again, this is just very very wrong.
The problem here is that people are dying in 1-2 ticks of condi bombs, no?
Yes, we understand that resistance allows condis to be stacked to the ceiling and then be spread from epidemic..
But like I’ve said in all of the other threads involving your comments on epidemic and resistance, resistance is too fragile to touch. It is too involved with many different builds and skills across all professions. Epidemic is a single utility skill on a single profession.
Let’s say we remove resistance from the game entirely. Ok, balance goes into chaos and epidemic is still abused via downed bodies and lords/siege. Nice!
Let’s say we nerf epidemic. Ok, depending on the nerf we’re talking about here, epidemic either can’t 1-shot people anymore, or it becomes a bit harder to do so (either via reduced radius, increased cooldown, condi cap, etc.) Look at that! Problem solved!
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No. Resistance is fine. It’s involved in too many skills. Just fix epidemic and its all good to go.
…. its not ok the skill is counter productive and either needs to be reworked or removed if wpi was broken that would have been the case since the launch of hot. Its not ok whenthis skill makes you an unkillable target dummy for conditions.
What exactly is counter productive about it?
It’s counter productive right now because people are just ignoring conditions and stacking resistance.
Which allows people to stack insane amounts of conditions on them, while they themselves are fine because of the boon, people around them die from conditions that get epidemic.
Resistance boon is suppose to protect players from conditions, not allow for awesome epidemic bombs.
Seems like resistance is doing its job. Epidemic appears to be the problem.
ok let me explain it this way because you are to biased to see it. If there wasnt resistance ppl would not forget how to field blast, condis wouldnt go so high on anyone because even if no one was cleansing them the target would die at around 10 15 stacks of bleedind and epi wouldnt not be able to spam 40 stacks of x conditions to nearby allies. Epi was not broken before hot and it wouldnt be after if not for resistance esp with light fields directly cleansing condis. This is more of an issue of the boon not being ested when in development and simply dropped into the game.
I completely understand that resistance is one of the reasons epidemic can 1 shot people.
But nerfing resistance because of 1 skill, (which would be epidemic), is completely backwards and asinine.
The problem you’re talking about is people getting condi bombed because of resistance+epidemic, correct?
Again, epidemic is a single utility skill on 1 profession. Resistance is a game-wide boon that most professions have access to. You tell me; which is going to have a larger impact on the game? Nerfing epidemic or nerfing resistance?
i can tell you which will have the better impact in the game but you wont like that answer. But then again removing it is not the only solution making it a % reduction would work just as well and be as easy as it would be to nerf epidemic and even easier because you need to think how to.nerf elidemic to not make it useless. But 100 protection from conditions is straight broken.
Better impact? No, I said larger impact. Big difference. It’s impossible to determine which one would have a ‘better’ impact without thorough testing.
What you need to understand about game balance is this: Huge changes are very unhealthy for a game. That’s just a fact. The current balance of the game is in a decent state, and the last thing you want to do is throw everything into chaos just because you want to keep your toy (epidemic.)
Besides, there have been multiple threads with reasonable nerfs to epidemic that would make it more balanced. Such nerfs sound like this: making it blockable, reducing radius, increasing cooldown, adding a condition cap.
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Guys, it’s ok, I’m a thief and I survived an epi bomb. Epidemic is balanced because I survived it. Want to see how I lived? —→ https://youtu.be/NiLZirC3-X8?t=5m58s
All you need is 21k health, full utilities ready to faceroll, 9 condition cleanses at the ready, and your heal ready to use after it’s all gone.
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(edited by The Game Slayer.7632)
No. Resistance is fine. It’s involved in too many skills. Just fix epidemic and its all good to go.
Resistance is not fine. Its way too powerful to be a simple boon.
It should only be a % decrease in condi damage for the duration, and it shouldn’t allow you to ignore all CC effects from condis either. Or it should only protect you against condis’ “secondary” effects (CC and the heal/endurance refill reduction from poison/weakness) but not decrease the damage condis do to you.
But total immunity to both the soft CC and the damage from condis is bullkitten.
And I say it should be 100% negation from condis.
The only reason you don’t want resistance to be 100% negation is because you think it’s bullkitten.
Ok, I think that full trailblazer and dire gear is bullkitten.
Do you have any other reasons for nerfing resistance, other than you don’t like it?
resistance in its actual state its even bullkitten for the player tha uses it on himself if for w/e reason the condis ppl stack on him last longer than the resistance the moment it runs out the guy will get insta downed u call that WORKING AS INTENDED?_
Resistance doesn’t harm the individual using it in the slightest. It can ONLY help anyone who has it. It just delays the inevitable from poor mechanical play from the users end. (Unless it’s epidemic, which is a different story.)
If you are condi bombed and your only way of surviving is resistance, then yes you deserve to die when it runs out. You don’t have any cleanses and you got hit by the condition bomb to begin with. That’s called getting outplayed. And that is by design.
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No. Resistance is fine. It’s involved in too many skills. Just fix epidemic and its all good to go.
…. its not ok the skill is counter productive and either needs to be reworked or removed if wpi was broken that would have been the case since the launch of hot. Its not ok whenthis skill makes you an unkillable target dummy for conditions.
What exactly is counter productive about it?
It’s counter productive right now because people are just ignoring conditions and stacking resistance.
Which allows people to stack insane amounts of conditions on them, while they themselves are fine because of the boon, people around them die from conditions that get epidemic.
Resistance boon is suppose to protect players from conditions, not allow for awesome epidemic bombs.
Seems like resistance is doing its job. Epidemic appears to be the problem.
ok let me explain it this way because you are to biased to see it. If there wasnt resistance ppl would not forget how to field blast, condis wouldnt go so high on anyone because even if no one was cleansing them the target would die at around 10 15 stacks of bleedind and epi wouldnt not be able to spam 40 stacks of x conditions to nearby allies. Epi was not broken before hot and it wouldnt be after if not for resistance esp with light fields directly cleansing condis. This is more of an issue of the boon not being ested when in development and simply dropped into the game.
I completely understand that resistance is one of the reasons epidemic can 1 shot people.
But nerfing resistance because of 1 skill, (which would be epidemic), is completely backwards and asinine.
The problem you’re talking about is people getting condi bombed because of resistance+epidemic, correct?
Again, epidemic is a single utility skill on 1 profession. Resistance is a game-wide boon that most professions have access to. You tell me; which is going to have a larger impact on the game? Nerfing epidemic or nerfing resistance?
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true condis got better and for that reason alone without the resistance you wouldnt be able to stack so many of them and proceed into 1 shotting 5 more players its as if they never tested resistance before adding it into the game.
Resistance is too involved with class balance to touch. It’s a boon that a lot of classes have access to. Nerfing resistance, a boon that a lot of classes have access to through a myriad of skills, is asking for trouble. And the devs already know that.
The problem is epidemic. It’s far more healthier and less catastrophic to fix the real reason people die to condis in 1 or 2 ticks, which is epidemic.
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No. Resistance is fine. It’s involved in too many skills. Just fix epidemic and its all good to go.
Resistance is not fine. Its way too powerful to be a simple boon.
It should only be a % decrease in condi damage for the duration, and it shouldn’t allow you to ignore all CC effects from condis either. Or it should only protect you against condis’ “secondary” effects (CC and the heal/endurance refill reduction from poison/weakness) but not decrease the damage condis do to you.
But total immunity to both the soft CC and the damage from condis is bullkitten.
And I say it should be 100% negation from condis.
The only reason you don’t want resistance to be 100% negation is because you think it’s bullkitten.
Ok, I think that full trailblazer and dire gear is bullkitten.
Do you have any other reasons for nerfing resistance, other than you don’t like it?
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No. Resistance is fine. It’s involved in too many skills. Just fix epidemic and its all good to go.
…. its not ok the skill is counter productive and either needs to be reworked or removed if wpi was broken that would have been the case since the launch of hot. Its not ok whenthis skill makes you an unkillable target dummy for conditions.
What exactly is counter productive about it?
It’s counter productive right now because people are just ignoring conditions and stacking resistance.
Which allows people to stack insane amounts of conditions on them, while they themselves are fine because of the boon, people around them die from conditions that get epidemic.
Resistance boon is suppose to protect players from conditions, not allow for awesome epidemic bombs.
Seems like resistance is doing its job. Epidemic appears to be the problem.
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No. Resistance is fine. It’s involved in too many skills. Just fix epidemic and its all good to go.
…. its not ok the skill is counter productive and either needs to be reworked or removed if wpi was broken that would have been the case since the launch of hot. Its not ok whenthis skill makes you an unkillable target dummy for conditions.
What exactly is counter productive about it?
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I say it needs to get resorked. It’s making people lazy.
Also complete immunity to conditions is a bit much.
exactlty and with how strong condis are on their own wothout it ppl would not be able to die that fast because condisnhave a ramb up time to stark kicking off
No no no. Resistance doesn’t make condis stronger. Resistance makes Epidemic stronger.
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No. Resistance is fine. It’s involved in too many skills. Just fix epidemic and its all good to go.
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I prefered they finally nerfed stealth for all classes or give every class a useful counter against it.
Ghost thief is just the latest monster Anet has created. Mesmer and thief were ridiculous overpowered with their stealth builds before – and we talk about 5 years here.Stealth makes people think that “you won a fight” when your opponent has to reset while for the rest of the classes “winning” means you downed your opponent.
Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.
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Anet, you buffed this build. Why?
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Your first 3-5 matches determines where you will be and you will be stuck there for an eternity unless RNG favours you.
I know I’m necro-ing this thread. However, it’s still relevant.
First things first- I need you to understand that I have played only 900 spvp games since the launch of the game. 500 of those games came from s5.
I was dipping in and out of plat and gold 3 for the first 200 or so games. Really interesting stuff, considering how I finished with 1800 rating and ended up with rank 228 on the leaderboards!
I went from 1500-1600 rating to 1800-1850 towards the end of the season, all because I spent a lot of time trying to improve myself. Guys and gals, there’s no RNG here.
I just want you all to know that s5 was a huge success. I’m really hyped for s6!
Gj devs! Continue the positive changes!!!
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Just to counter some of the ‘most balanced state the game has ever been in’ comments.
If things are so balanced why is the population in PvP so poor?
Oh, you have statistics on this? Care to share it with us? I’d love to see the numbers!!!!!
See y’all in 3 month o/
Kbyefelicia.
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They hit the things they had to. Purification was slightly nerfed, Adrenal Health was nerfed, Signet of the Wild was fixed, and both engi and rev saw some buffs. Last season was remarkably well balanced. We just needed more checks against DH and Berserker, and with condi engi being buffed we may now have one.
Besides, most of today’s balance is related to PvE changes, not PvP.
This, so much. So much of this. People who fail to see current spvp as very balanced make me lol. Like, they should really show the s6 badges next to the forum posters. Most are probably bronze.
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To be fair this Balance Patch looks more aimed at PVE side of balancing with a bit of Spvp balance thrown in. Not really a full blown SPVP balancing.
After 3+ months it shouldnt be tiny cd reductions. There should be reworks of many traits that underwhelm. They must be running on a skeleton dev team.
No wonder this game is dead.
No. lol. That’s the easiest way to induce power-creep. Slower and smaller balance patches don’t shake the game as much. That’s a positive thing, if you didn’t know. The meta is in a great spot right now, and spvp on the whole doesn’t alienate players with these kinds of balance patches. Think about it, every single season has had a substantial meta change. Is that not enough change for you?
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Its obvious they have hardly anybody working on pvp or the game in general really. This patch was garbage. There is no other way to slice it. The white knighters will be here shortly to rationalize away but really this patch is indefensible.
What about it is indefensible? Baseless complaints make me lol. Sounds like you either need to leave gw2 or take a break.
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400 posts asking for a nerf and nothing arrives. GG anet you really do not listen to your player base. LITERALLY nothing lol
Not every poster here agrees with PI nerf….
This^… The last thing we need is for great bunker busting tools to be nerfed. Nerfing thieves dodges instead was the smart move. Gj anet, I truly have a lot of hope for the game after seeing this patch.
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The unfortunate thing in this instance is that Warriors do not provide auras, aoe healing, protection, might or swiftness in the highest tiers of play. We do damage, have good to great mobility (when running power) and we have decent CC. That’s pretty much the only team utility we have.
This thread is about over abundance of condition removal on warrior. Not whether it has the abilities of other classes. Besides, eles throws away many thing to achieve the boons and healing it provides. Ele goes pretty much full bunker and heal to even stand a chance, while warrior picks 1 traitline and bam, you have very good sustain.
As for it having “team utility”, that is exactly the reason they are played 1v1. And in that 1v1, condition based builds can not beat them, unless the skills of the players in that 1v1 is vastly apart.
Then why should warrior be nerfed if they are strong in one aspect of fighting and weak in another aspect? Seems balanced to me.
lol /thread
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First of all, nullification sigil is useless. Having it remove the Resistance is not an option, as the resistance on Berserker stance is pulsing and you are lucky if actual boon removing procs at just the right time, for it to remove resistance.
Ok, fair. I’m just trying to point out the different options and possibilities.
Secondly, mesmer and revenant do not have boon strip in their condi builds.
Ok, wrong. I fixed ‘meta’ to say condi, because that’s what we’re talking about here. Mesmer sword autoattack has boon strip. (lol.) Mallyx rev has as much boon strip as he desires. Don’t even bring up glint/shiro power, because that’s irrelevant.
Engineer would need to pick up some pretty bizarre skills to have access to it.
Yea, I know, I mentioned that myself.
As for dodging the Arc Divider, yeah. I dodge it pretty much always when they swap into Berserk form.
Good job!
However, dodging it afterwards is a different thing, especially if warrior knows what he is doing.
Sure, it’s a little less predictable than when he first enters berzerk mode, but this little part is still a l2p issue. If you can dodge more than half of his arc dividers, you’re taking away more than half of his condi cleanses, correct? That’s pretty good. This is also assuming he took cleansing ire, which is not a guarantee, at all.
Anyway, this is not at all a l2p issue, as warrior has lots of condition removal and is very hard to kill with conditions, for example, beating it with a condi engineer is pretty much impossible. Burn guard even worse, condi rev loses too.
Yea, but none of those builds are meta. And it’s not because warrior is the ONE profession they lose out to! It’s because they lose to a lot of things, and those builds are bad for other reasons as well.
All in all, I agree war could use some very small number shaving. But imo, it’s very balanced at the moment. It does it’s job, and it has weaknesses. (Team fights.)
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About the guy who mentioned engi having boon removal,
A power based utility, wich your opponent has to step on it in order to remove 1 boon…
No condi engi in his senses would slot this utility at all, why would you do it?
Same thing goes for his toolbelt.
Please read my comment before adding literally nothing of value to the conversation.
Quoting myself here: “Other professions have it too, but there’s probably too much opportunity cost. IE; engineer.”
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Dodging arc divider is impossible? I don’t know, to me it’s really obvious. Most wars spam it as soon as they enter berzerk mode. I can dodge it most of the time.
As far as most condi builds not having access to boon strip, that’s just untrue. Run a sigil of nullification. On top of that, thieves, mesmers, revenants, and necros have easy boon removal that they don’t need to go out of their way to get. Other professions have it too, but there’s probably too much opportunity cost. IE; engineer.
Overall, this really smells of a l2p problem, as warriors don’t have 100% resistance uptime at all. And as stated before, even if they did, there are many options for removing it.
And if you’re talking about wars winning 1v1’s, that’s pretty normal. War is probably the strongest 1v1 class there is at the moment, and the condition mitigation is only 1 factor in why they’re good. Wars in team fights don’t shine nearly as much. They’re pretty balanced.
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FIX THE B U G S. Is hard to argue about balance or toxiticy when some classes have unfixed bugs affecting their performance since the release of the game.
Such as? Can you give us 2 or 3 examples?
To name a few from the Revenant:
Sword #1 aa stops autoattacking for no reason.
Sword #3 (Unrelenting Assault) applies to the user under confussion 5 times each stack of confussion he suffers. This is unintentional since Warrior’s Hundred Blades, Volley, or Ranger’s Rapid Fire doesn’t apply the confusion stacks multiple times.
Unrelenting Assault and Vengeful Hammers are canceled each time an obstacle partially blocks the AoE path. This skills should work as a true AoE damage by ticks.
Mace # 2 (Searing Fissure) and Axe #5 (Temporal Rift) are cancelled by the sligtlest slant in the terrain; this skills should be applied as a volumetric effec, the same as most of the Elementalist AoE works (an the reason why they are so usefull in dps vs bosses with large hit boxes).…I could go on the whole day.
Now, I’m not saying these things shouldn’t be fixed, but your hyperbole on bug fixes doesn’t help anyone here.
" bugs affecting their performance since the release of the game."
Give us some examples of classes that haven’t only existed for a little over a year, such as… literally anything other than revenant.
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FIX THE B U G S. Is hard to argue about balance or toxiticy when some classes have unfixed bugs affecting their performance since the release of the game.
Such as? Can you give us 2 or 3 examples?
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A reputation system would be instantly abused. Just keep reporting people you don’t like or don’t wish to be matched against.
Want to fix the raging? Make even matches. ANET chose to run deliberately unfair matches for the better part of the year. They also encouraged and sponsored Pro Players who raged. There’s no surprise in the result.
I’m not saying the match making system can’t be improved upon, but limiting the pools of players you can play with will make queue times way too long. I finished in top 250, and my average queue time during the season was already at 5-8 minutes despite the average for everyone being at 1-2.
With that being said, losing a match that you were supposed to lose anyway by means of MMR means that you won’t lose a lot of rating, while simultaneously allowing for lower ranked players to play against higher ranked players. This actually helps people grow and learn, as you can see first hand tactics that are employed to beat you. This is a healthy thing for the spvp community, and it would only be toxic if this is how the majority of matches went. The majority of matches are already fair.
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Play a thief and do the same.
Really? so that is the solution, to play a thief? So everyone just grab a thief because it is the 1 button kill.
No, because assuming you actually do take his advice and play a thief, you’ll very soon find out that thief is not easy to play. You were the one who in fact got outplayed, especially in a winning match up.
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Asking for win only rewards skirts very close to elitism. PvP is already fairly unattractive to new people.
If new people get hammered and get no rewards in the bargain..? Regardless of the faction that wants only “skilled” players, PvP needs population.
Such a step would drive away even more people and reduce match quality still further.
Aside from that, it seems that “skilled” players are those who agree with the particular poster.
GW2 pvp needs to be more elitist, tbh. And s5 was a step in a great direction for that. Having a strong competitive scene in pvp only makes a game stronger. That goes for all aspects of the game.
Yeah, no. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
Casuals are infinitely more profitable and reliable than the competitive players who claim to be loyal but actually swap games just as much and are a much smaller population.
Wildstar died because of the elitist mentality.
You know you can make the game appeal to both casuals and competitive players, right? This isn’t mutually exclusive.
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Bound is a damage multiplier… players wondering how they got clocked by a big hit need look no further than a player stacking up these percentages.
This isn’t really a problem in sPvP though.
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If you add zero after 20 or 30 then it could maybe become combat-worthy. Until then it’s just finisher under feet, nothing more.
Well the reason I only say 20-30 percent is because detonating the cluster becomes far harder to do if its that fast.
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(edited by The Game Slayer.7632)
Can cluster bomb get a velocity speed increase with next balance patch?
Like, 20-30% increase?
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Asking for win only rewards skirts very close to elitism. PvP is already fairly unattractive to new people.
If new people get hammered and get no rewards in the bargain..? Regardless of the faction that wants only “skilled” players, PvP needs population.
Such a step would drive away even more people and reduce match quality still further.
Aside from that, it seems that “skilled” players are those who agree with the particular poster.
GW2 pvp needs to be more elitist, tbh. And s5 was a step in a great direction for that. Having a strong competitive scene in pvp only makes a game stronger. That goes for all aspects of the game.
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Boonstrip is only a hypothetical counter that in practice is either ineffective (reapplication) or not available to condition builds.
All the meta condi builds have boon strip. Not sure what you’re talking about.
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Boon strip. /thread
Unfortunately not every class has access to viable builds with boon strip
Not every class has a viable condition build either.
And that is because of what Solstace said: Not every class has viable boon strip therefor those classes don’t have viable condition builds.
As a Burn Guardian, I would love my searing flames back so I could strip resistance (assuming it was not pure trash like before). I hate fighting warriors and dying to them not because I was outplayed but because they are immune to damage for what seems like 10s+.
Warriors have been able to withstand condition damage like that since the beginning of the game. It’s only gotten easier to kill them since their counter-condi tool has been transformed into a boon. If resistance gets nerfed, then all the classes that had resistance will have to be compensated in some other way, resulting in the same situation you find yourself in.
L2P. (Because it definitely is a l2p situation.)
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Boon strip. /thread
Unfortunately not every class has access to viable builds with boon strip
Not every class has a viable condition build either.
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Boon strip. /thread
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It’s already been done. Just watch though, nothing’s gonna happen.
You can keep up with the drama:
http://gw2drama.com/topic62.html
I don’t see any evidence in this link. Just a bunch of bad players crying with screenshots of people existing inside a match.
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in season 1 — you could have 1 low tier and up to 3 more high tier…. so boosting was super common
with duo its not so ez to boost maybe you can a bit but lets not get carried away here lol
You’re nuts. Everyone is doing it.
Elaborate and show proof.
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It’s normal when you are getting farmed by cheaters.
The other team probably had a dual queue with a legendary and smurf bronze player. So their team had a lower rating and you lost. Better luck next time sucka!
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Firstly, wheres the proof?
Secondly, if the enemies team has a lower rating, then he wouldn’t lose 55 rating.
Bad players making bad excuses. (Anyone higher than me is a cheater!)
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That’s nuts. I’d say its a combination of volatility+bad matchmaking that you should’ve won. I say volatility since the last game you did was almost 3 days ago.
In other news though, I’m happy that I’m finally in front of you now. C:<
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Damage Modifiers are the real culprit here. They are multiplicative meaning they amplify each other. No big hitter that I know of can pull off massive shots without them. They should have been additive or better yet removed and replaced with straight power additions.
nerf burst
nerf tank
nerfbat loves allWhich is what is rolling in sPvP for better or worse.
That’s totally fine with me, so long as tanky builds are also nerfed. I’ve ran a 1 shot build against a full minstrel ele. Do you know how much % of his health I was able to bring down after landing my full burst? 30%. He was in stone heart for only half of it. I also landed a full burst on many bunker base guards. Not being blocked, but landing critical hits, I was able to only chip away at 20% of his health with my full burst. That is absolutely absurd.
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Why do you all still humor him? When he once again loses the argument he is just going to delete the thread again.
Same reason I gank tryhards at their nnc.
Bordism.^this , plus it’s fun to have “logical discussions”
Lol, and you put far more effort into it than I do. Props. I enjoy reading your responses because that’s what I would say if I happened to care more. Lead us to a logical forum victory, Blaque!
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Well a lot of my friends, including myself, are busy with college as it has just started back up recently. So don’t conflate real life events with disappointment of the game.
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Fun part is that this topic is about Trailblazer and Viper but not mentioning Marauder/Commander.
I’d venture to say that anyone who tries to compare tb/dire to mar/com doesn’t really know a lot at all about opportunity cost and how stats work. But that’s just me.
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@OriOri: That’s fair. Ghost thieves should not be a thing.
~ Kovu
Agreed. A mechanic where you can deal damage without ever being seen is fundamentally broken, even if it isn’t OP
Stealth isn’t the problem. It’s being able to deal damage and still stay stealthed. Thief traps need a revamp.
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