Guild Wars 2

just stop playing the game. The incredible drop-off rate of elementalists is apparent. This is the only way to get them to give us that +2% damage to burning and bleeding foes.

Devon.9061:

fufu.8345:

gvaughn.4163:

fufu.8345:

JahRo.6432:

fufu.8345:

JahRo.6432:

Here’s to another week of roaming Blackwaters, perp engis, and GS warriors rushing away!

And here’s to a week of watching your members cower back to your mini zerg.

The hypocrisy is strong in this one.

This might be a disappointment for you because it makes your statement invalid since I roam solo.

BP roamers lol. Everyone on your server is so built for zergs that they can’t fight any other way. #noskillsnokill /salute ()PUmesOP &lastweekofforums

Can someone translate this to a comprehensible form of english?

Don’t worry. I will use my last week to translate for your broke butt.

Lets start with BP roamers lol.
Im assuming he mistyped and meant to say DP. Since who doesn’t like the DP? Now roamers is usually a group that isn’t zerg related. Lol is a common and “hip” abbreviation for laughing out loud.

Everyone on your server is so built for zergs that they can’t fight any other way.
Ok now he is saying your server, Bordom Pass or something like to zerg a lot. All of you guys like to run in full PTV gear and spam 1. He may also be saying you guys are unable to fight in smaller groups due to you hitting like a baby.

#noskillsnokill
This symbol is know as the “hashtag.” Trendy people now a days use it to tag their posts in a certain category. This being said I believe he is saying you guys have no skill with only the ability to spam 1 and are unable to kill ambient creatures.

/salute
Now I’m no expert at emote spamming. But I do believe this is an emotion in the game. You can try it out for yourself if you would like to test this hypothesis.

PUmesOP &lastweekofforums
He is saying you smell as a mesmer thus the PU. Since you stink and you are OP. I believe OP stands for Oral Phantasmal. This may be a new type of skill? I do not have a mesmer so I am not positive. Not lastweekofforums. Well its clearly the last week of the matchup thread so I think that is self explanatory.

Summary
He does lack using the [space] bar though. So it was somewhat difficult for me to capture the inner meaning regardless if I went to online translation school. But then again I’m no mathematician so I may be wrong.

~Love
Devon

Every server is literally almost the same in terms of the percentages of the nearly unanimously agreed classifications.
There are bad zergers in every server.
There are amazing zergers in every server.
There are bad roaming players in every server.
There are amazing roaming players in every server.
There are decent roaming players in every server.
There are corpse jumping, misogynous, corpse laughing 5v1’ers in every server which think they are good.
There are actually good players who participate in corpse jumping, misogynous, corpse laughing activities, just to let out some real life anger they have pent up.

I could go on.. and on. You get the point.
What I find to be the most amazing part in it all is that in the end.. It’s just a game. After all, life is just a game too.

It’s when you step back for a second and see the harmonious unity in it all is when you laugh yourself silly. You see that, like everything else, there is no point, but for itself. When you dance, you dont aim to arrive at a particular spot on the floor. You dance to dance. When you listen to music, you dont try to get to the ending chord. You listen to everything the music is offering.

Play the game if you want to, heck, do whatever you want to do. It’s just a game. Just have fun with the game (: Maybe, you find fun in trolling in forums. There is nothing wrong with that. I just thought I’d share another perspective with you.

Hi i got an incinerator a few months back for my ele. I then started to play my thief and i had heard that you could switch up your legendary to other characters through transmutation stones and splitters.

I really messed up. I took the stats of a white dagger and the looks of the white dagger with the sigil of the incin. my friend later told me that i had to take the looks of the incin and stats of the white dagger. I tried to transmute split it and it didnt give back incinerator. i fear its been lost to the game somehow.

My quesiton is, if i made a ticket about this(which i have), do you think anet would help me somehow in getting back incin? They could give me account or soulbound incin back for all i care, as it stands here, i lost a legendary due to a game glitch. has anyone had any experience with such a touchy and rare issue to give me feedback on any kind of outcomes to this?

Excalibur.9748:

well i guess you have to run with shadow arts based thief below 30% HP, because last refuge procs at 25% health and that thing can be unpredictable.

30% was just a BS’d number. Suppose i shouldve said “whenever they get dangerously low” which in my eyes, 30% for a thief is dangerous and was the first thing i thought of.

BobbyT.7192:

So we have one side saying thieves are OP,
One side defending the thieves,
And burnfall spouting some random crap that doesn’t make sense

…….Merry christmas all

I lol’d.

Aaroneous.6190:

I agree, so many people complain about the wrong things with thieves when it is simply a L2 play issue, this case what I am speaking of is a very specific situation that applies to WvW only. These guys are blinking around with 1200 range so frequently escaping everything. Why? I cannot understand why. They are so entirely favored it’s undeniable. Blinking up on bridges, teleporting behind entire zergs, completely choosing when they want to lose or win. If you have seen one of these thieves, then you know that this is no exaggeration, this is a problem.

Its really not a L2P issue at all, some of it is, granted but it’s all about resetting fights with such little sacrificing going on. Look, a thief is never going to kill me, but when i get any thief below 30%, they just run.

and you can’t stop them from running …….. Ill blow all my snares trying to land stuff on the thief, but when i get him low, my snares are all on cd because i used them to deal my damage by keeping him still.

I call that a loss. And the thief wins every fight by choosing not to lose to you.

Now THAT is bull-kitten.

Edit- Its not bull-kitten that they can run away, its bs that thieves and wars are somehow the only class that are allowed to do so…. I never complained about thieves pre-rtl nerf, only after. So, i wont ever complain about thieves again if rtl got reverted.(but we know never will). The double standards in this game are beyond sickening.

What reikken said, and on top of that, If you really want to not die vs condi spammers then just run -condi duration runes and food. poof. not a problem anymore.

Don’t complain that you gotta change stuff up either. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Mbelch.9028:

I understand it affected some builds, but none of mine were affected at all. I actually had some new options opened up.

In my opinion it SHOULDN’T be moved, it should be STANDARD for all elementalists starting at birth.

Yea, it should automatically already be that way. The trait should just make it apply to nearby allies.

Oh one can dream. Yes, you, zyter.

Swagg i reposted your ideas at the top, as they also sound very nice and accepted!

Keiel.7489:

Why ask this question? If an Anet Dev came and said “Yes, Bloobing is the intended gameplay option” would everyone finally shut up? Or will the whining continue until the majority of the people, people who enjoy this type of game play are forced to play the game the minority likes?

Really, it was a rhetorical question. But, I’m not gonna lie, if a dev said “yes this is how we envisioned wvw” then i would not say another word and just play the game. If it’s not going to happen, then its not going to happen. Why waste my time here asking the impossible.

Dear devs-
What can you tell us about the future for WvW zergs? Do you approve? This constant karma/exp/reward train goes on in every single borderland and leaves no content what so ever for roamers, smaller groups, or even medium groups. It’s pretty apparent that the mantra of WvW is this- Everyone get to one commander. Follow the blue dot. Pick up supplies when he tells you to. Build when he tells you to. Spam 1 on doors. Repeat.

Whoever has more people, just wins.

Suggestions that I’ve thought of to make WvW more interesting and much much more fun.

Make doors scale with the amount of people that are there. Make doors only take damage to siege. Only one of these options needs to be implemented, as either would single handedly put a stop to “all gather around the door and press 1”

Make ballistas push people back. (much like in the ascalon fractal)

Give more options for commanders. Make commander tags an achievement to unlock that takes knowledge and skill, not just “who can play the game more”. Refund 100g to people with tags and take all tags away.

Take away white swords. (this is just a shot in the air, idk how this would be.)

Make yaks travel 50% faster. (or an upgrade that makes them go 50% faster).

Make upgrading cost you no gold. As it stands right now, nearly no one wants to bother upgrading camps and towers and at times, keeps as well.
Its a real shame all that content has went to waste

Make upgrades complete faster.

Theres more to add, for sure, but in the mean time simply critique my suggestions.

Remeber that my goal is to improve smaller group play and to reduce the blobbing and zerging that goes on, day in and day out.

oZii.2864:

Your full Zerker ele does 2k damage with how many trait points invested in air or fire? Thats alot for probably only 10-20 points invested in critical chance line. Imagine 30 fire 20 air which would be part of the goal to get scepter, focus, and dagger users to spec into for pvp because nobody goes into fire except staff users for pvp.

This person has points in power I think and crit chance

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/126585/gw172.jpg

4.1k it isn’t a uplevel he hit with that. His build is in the where’s the damage thread. That is the potential damage of LF why I think 20secs is to low for that possible damage output.

I dont know I just think LF + Burning speed every 16 seconds is pretty strong and pretty easy mode. I think 30 seconds is reasonable 24 traited..

Maybe 30 seconds is reasonable, yea, i can see 30 seconds being ok at 24 traited. My build is 100% zerk gear with 30 in air. And i hit an average of 2k on my LF’s.

But in no way is this easy mode. this is do or die mode, where when you are sneezed on you die before the sneeze particles reach you. So no, it wouldnt be op whatsoever.

oZii.2864:

Arcane shield suggestion 60 seconds block all attacks for 3 seconds explodes as it does now. Traited it become 48 which I think is reasonable for how much damage it does when it explodes. I like your suggestion also though.

Lightning flash is fine – 20s is to low for how much damage it does. It does alot of damage on crit damage builds for 20s to be justified imo. It would basically become arcane wave at 20 secs. Think Lightning flash burning speed combo’s every 20 seconds? That would be pretty powerful and counter play would be be difficult for enemies. You could do it every 15 seconds traited for cantrips with this suggestion.

Your mist form suggestion is ok I think. I just say reduce the cd you have to think about the traits also. With your suggestion the condis stop doing damage but if I trait 30 water with soothing disruption your suggestion doesn’t matter. Once I attune to water while mist formed and dodge roll while mist formed. I say leave as is just reduce cd.

Cleansing fire – NO there is already condition removal on weapon sets as is. Cleansing fire is fine like it is now. It is a offensive and defensive cantrip the cd is fine. Removing all conditions doesn’t warrant a 60 second cd. Nobody would take cleansing fire ever again.

How is LF + burning speed that bad? it really doesnt do nearly as much damage as other classes can do. The cd reduction would allow it to be used offensively and then defensively smoothly in one fight. Use it to open up, and then when its off CD again use it to put distance between your enemy for some time. Think, skull crack and HB. Illusionary leap+ blurred fenzy. Basilisk venom + cloak and dagger(and backstab). all of those are as telegraphed as burning speed+LF. On my 100% zerk set my ele does 2k lightning flashes. Thats pitiful for 100% zerk. To say 20s cd would be op with 2k damage on 100% zerk is a bit silly. Yes the damage is nice, but shouldnt be a reason to say no to a 20s cd. The damage is just, there. Its not good, its not bad. Not op either.

To remove condis while in mist form you need to trait 60 points while having water attune off cd. ( reminder, those 60 points only remove TWO condis in situations where you can easily have 5-10)..just have the condis stop doing damage while youre invuln. no need to waste traits to make mist form work.. thats silly. it also would allow for more build diversity.

I can agree with cleansing fire. but i disagree with enough condi removal on weapon sets. we inherently NEED more condi removal.

Reserved for future use-

Second set of ideas (credit to swagg.9236). You will see his post later on in the thread.

Swagg.9236:

UTILITIES
Arcane Blast

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 20 seconds
• Build up an orb of arcane energy in front of you for 1 second before sending it at your foe. It blasts your target for critical damage.
• Delay: 1 second
• Damage: 363
• Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (100%)
• Range: 1500
  • The delay represents how long the orb remains in front of the caster before flying toward the target.

Arcane Wave

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Conjure a ring of arcane energy around target area. After 1 second, the ring explodes, blasting foes in the area for critical damage.
• Delay: 1 second
• Damage: 628
• Combo Finisher: Blast
• Radius: 360
• Range: 900
  • The ring floats just off the ground and highlights the area targeted by [Arcane Wave].
  • Delay ring shares its coloration with [Arcane Blast]’s projectile.

Arcane Shield

• Recharge lowered from 75 to 50 seconds.
• Duration lowered from 5 to 2 seconds.
• Explosion generated from exhausting blocks now also dazes adjacent enemies (180 radius; 2-second daze).

Glyph of Renewal

• Cast-time reduced from 3¼ to 2½ seconds.
• Recharge reduced from 165 to 150 seconds.

Glyph of Storms

• Recharge reduced from 60 to 50 seconds.
• Damage increased from 122 to 159 (same damage modifier).

Mist Form

• Recharge reduced from 75 to 50 seconds.
• Duration reduced from 3 to 2 seconds.
• Invulnerability reduced from 3 to 2 seconds.
• Now also cures immobilize, crippled and chill upon activation.
  • Now chains into another skill upon use: [Cold Front].

Cold Front

• Cast-time: ¼ second
• Recharge: 5 seconds
• Dash in a target direction, chilling foes that you strike along the way.
• Damage: 111 (0.3)
• Chill: 2 seconds
• Evasion: ¾ seconds
• Range: 450
  • [Whirlwind Attack]

Armor of Earth

• Recharged reduced from 90 to 50 seconds.
• Stability reduced from 6 to 4 seconds.
• Protection reduced from 6 to 4 seconds.
• Duration reduced from 6 to 4 seconds.

Lightning Flash

• Recharge reduced from 40 to 30 seconds.

Cleansing Fire

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Recharge reduced from 40 to 30 seconds.
• Cast-time increased from 0 to 1½ seconds.
• Channel a cleansing fire that pulses around you three times, damaging and burning nearby foes while cleansing 1 condition from yourself and nearby allies with each pulse. The final pulse knocks back nearby enemies.
• Damage (3x): 387 (0.5)
• Burning (3): 1 second
• Knock back: 240
• Radius: 240

The following suggestions are for the devs. Note that if all these suggestions were to be implemented, it would be insanely overpowered, i am just asking for 1 or 2 to even be considered. consider the list something to choose from, and to pickt he best suggestion.
Armor of earth- CD reduction to 70s. Lasts 7s.

Arcane shield- Cd reduction to 50s, change functionality. Lasts 2s, blocks all attacks for 2s. After 2s, it explodes (just how it did before). Blast finisher. Still breaks stun.

Lightning Flash- CD reduction to 20s ( or atleast something reasonably lower)

Mist form- Condis stop doing damage while invuln, but arent removed due to this. when the invuln is over, condis start to hurt again.

Every conjure except for FGS- Reduced CD to 20s.

Cleansing fire- increased cd to 60s. Removes all condis.

I don’t know, those changes do sound better. I can already have armor of earth hit 12 seconds with max boon duration so i think devs might find 19s armor of earth a bit too high. Armor of earth just needs a CD reduction. Im going to make a utilities suggestion thread.

Suggestion- make lightning flashes CD 20s. (or something reasonably lower than what it is now.)

We are suffering greatly from the turtle disease. Yes, we are mobile. but when RTL was gutted, we suffered greatly. RTL did need a nerf. thats besides the point.

Why this will be good- It will help with our mobility, which is something we are lacking in. It can allow for things such as d/f and s/f to open up, things that are solely not used due to its lack of mobility. If an ele cannot kite people and avoid attacks, that ele is dead. lowest hp and lowest armor, and yet, you devs think this level of mobility is acceptable? well, im here to tell you as a customer and ele player that its not okay. Its not okay. nerf our healing, thats ok. nerf our invulns, thats ok. even after all these months, that nerf to RTL was ludicrous. and it Killed ele.

This will help with ALL builds ele can use due to its nature of being a utility skill. and something i think can revive the class.

Ryan.9387:

Not on ranger skull fear though. I heard necro caps for some reason. The skull dear doesn’t.

Clarity – 100%
Traits – 30%
Rune – 20%
Sigil? – 15%
Giver weapon – 10%
Food – 40% – 10%
165% (205%)
3s – > 8s -> 9s

Test it. I wouldn’t lie to you.

you are lying lol. math is good, but in game restrictions are another thing. max +condi duration for anything is 100%.

Wintel.4873:

reikken.4961:

fire skills need a huge buff, but the others are mostly fine

I dunno, Flamewall isn’t too bad because it’s a fire field on which you can blast for might. Fire Shield also allows for more might stacking.
Can’t ask for much more than that considering focus is meant to be more defensive : /

what are your suggestions then? Can you accept that focus is never used in pvp? Im not one of those idiots asking for buffs when buffs aren’t needed, i am being extremely serious when i say “im willing to bet less than 3% of all eles playing spvp and wvw actually use focus”.

When theres such a huge disparity, something is inherently and apparently wrong with focus. Please, shed light on what’s wrong if youre saying we can’t ask for much more than a …. freakin fire field…

Navzar.2938:

Wintel.4873:

reikken.4961:

fire skills need a huge buff, but the others are mostly fine

I dunno, Flamewall isn’t too bad because it’s a fire field on which you can blast for might. Fire Shield also allows for more might stacking.
Can’t ask for much more than that considering focus is meant to be more defensive : /

You have to get hit to get might from fire shield, and it’s plenty easy to stack might without it.
As for flame wall: it’s only a fire field. Since that’s only thing it has going for it, it’s easily outclassed by ring of fire, which does reasonable damage and has a nicer shape.

pretty much. i can crit 3-4k on zerker on initial burst of ring of fire. and then the 5+ seconds of burning EVERY time they pass it, ALL on a 15s cd.

Highest crit ive seen flamewall do is 300. 3-hundred. on 100% zerk set. with 1s burning going through it. It should block projectiles, as goes with the theme for the rest of the focus. and then maybe reduce duration to 5s. thats not enough though for the skill itself. it really needs to do 3+ seconds of burning upon being hit by it or passing through. the damage needs a 1000% increase. yes, one thousand percent. it is literally the lowest hitting skill we have while on land.

Side note- a complete rework for fire in focus is fine. complete new skills will be more than wanted. fire aura is trash due to CD, flamewall is flamewall.
yes its a fire field, but fields should NOT be the reason a skill exists. they should be benefits to a skill that can be taken advantage of.

take a look at static field- outside of being lightning field, it stuns for 2s and does reasonable damage all while being un-blockable with no aoe limit. but you can use it for aoe swiftness as a benefit of the skill. it seems flamewall was designed purely for being a fire field that you can shoot through or use, which is counter-productive. it needs to actually do something first before you can say “oh yea, its a field as well.”
and flamewall does nothing outside of being a fire field.

ThiBash.5634:

Taldren.7523:

Even after the hammer nerf my warrior has 500 more armor, nearly double the hitpoint, and can press just about any attack and deal more damage than my elementalist whenever he wants.

Then why don’t you go play warrior if they’re so great? Because hitting for more than 3k with my staff ele certainly isn’t a problem for me…but if it’s not working for you, why play it?

because some people enjoy certain playstyles. they want to play how they want to play while also being on a fair level of effectiveness. i shake my head at people like you.

Imagi.4561:

I’m trying a build for D/F in PvP now that I’m really enjoying. Hooray for progress!

Now if only the cooldowns weren’t so long.

Yea, im in completel agreement. focus can be really good, but the sustainability is so horrible that its only good for first 20-30s of a fight. Its more on the defensive side, which is fine, but it has the longest weapon cd’s in the entire game. the only skill with such justified cool down is obsidian flesh, and only to an extent.

Elthurien.8356:

The Game Slayer.7632:

MyCondolences.8172:

Think it should be changed to
Cooldown: whatever
Triggers: any CC
Effect: Breaks stun, 3 seconds mist form.

This way it stays true to its name and instead of a random teleport gives the player a chance to reposition themselves or escape combat.

so long as the next patch eles can get stealth, im fine with this.

rangers and mesmers already do, why not elementalists. then guardians and warriors too. Longbow rangers stealth more often than I do

i was specifically referring to how he said mist form. Thats like asking for shadow refuge on an ele. i guess i shouldve changed my words.

So long as eles get shadow refuge, im fine with the next patch.

MyCondolences.8172:

Think it should be changed to
Cooldown: whatever
Triggers: any CC
Effect: Breaks stun, 3 seconds mist form.

This way it stays true to its name and instead of a random teleport gives the player a chance to reposition themselves or escape combat.

so long as the next patch eles can get stealth, im fine with this.

reikken.4961:

burning speed is actually pretty decent in combat mobility. the difference distance covered vs walking during the channel time is notable with that in-combat speed loss.
burning retreat though, is best skill ever. also conjures have good mobility on them, especially the elite. They are our utility skills, but they’re still there

yes but a class like ele needs to have inherent mobility. inherent mobility involves weapon skills. and im not saying these skills are bad for mobility, im just stating this is all we have, and nothing more. these skills (except for rtl) are acceptable.

Honestly ele is pretty balanced in everything except this. Mobility.
1-Burning speed(15s CD, nearly nothing to gain in terms of distance)
2- Ride the lightning (40s cd, roughly 800 distance gained in terms of somone running next to you, AKA channel time factor)
3- burning retreat (20s cd, roughly 500 distance gained due to channel time factor)

Out of all of our 60 weapon skills, these are it. All of our other defensive capabilities are quite alright, they get the job done, but NO class with minimum hp/armor should EVER be stuck with such a pitiful amount of mobility.

Kyon.9735:

How do you guys counter condi engis as a D/D or S/D? Especially ones with runes of perplexity. Even if I have lots of condi removals, they just put it back so quickly. Confusion is also a really hard counter against D/D eles. As for Diamond Skin, a few random auto attacks renders it useless. TBH I don’t even want to trait for Diamond skin just to counter 1 or 2 classes in WvW.

You dont need diamond skin. How to counter any condi spec with ele (or any class actually) is this: run -condi duraiton runes and -40 or -36 % food. now, run that, ALONG with some cleanses, and you can laugh at any condi spec that dares to touch you. when they burst/spam condis on you, you blow cleanse cd’s. they burst again, blow other cleanse cd’s again. and when they hit you again with their condi spam when your cleanses are on CD, they usually run out before you die or your next cleanses are back from being on CD.

Saying “oohh but they have +condi duration stuff with theri builds” doesn’t make any sense because more likely than not the extra duration is what kills you. your (-) condi duration is what counters their (+) duration.

TL;DR- negate their (+) condi duration with your (-) condi duration and you will live.

focus is so underused i dont even think arenanet knows they programmed those 8 skills when they were making the game. kidding ofc, but actions speak louder than words. A-net how do you allow such horrible skills to exist in a game?
cough flamewall cough

Scrap that skill please and just add a new one. the aura is horrible too.

Luvboard.3567:

6sec prot on 10s earth swap.

Thats exactly how i know you dont play ele. You didnt account for the amount of time you spend IN earth, while also accounting for the amount of time being spent while doing your rotation as earth is off cooldown. you’re looking at 6s every 25s, not 10.

Doomdesire.9365:

Nikkinella.8254:

Well boohoo, eles are no longer guaranteed free kills for condi theives/necros/and engies. Sorry if i don’t feel sympathy for any of them. Time to adapt and change your build and playstlye the same way eles have been forced to do over and over again JUST to remain mediocre after non stop nerfs in every single patch while other classes recieve ridiculous buffs. Guess you’ll have to spend longer than 2 seconds now to try kill an ele with mindless condition spam.

I like how at first people thought I was a necro then started attacking the class. Now that I play a thief and Spvp engi people are attacking those classes now. Lets stop with the ridiculous class insults and start focusing on DS.

---

Yes people, I know there are D/D thieves that can kill you easily. I don’t play a D/D DPS thief, and if it eles need more balancing in that aspect then so be it, but lets focus on Diamond Skin against Condi classes, as this topic was originally about, not Ele vs DPS thief.

So what in the F—k is the difference between a d-skin ele not dying to your cheese condi spam and a thief pressing 5 for cloak and dagger to run away..??!?!?!?!?!! both are not going to die if they dont want to. I don’t see the problem. Nerf D-skin, then nerf stealth and mobility. For once we get a half-way decent survivability tool and you jump down the throat of it as if stealth and 3 health pools WERENT op at all.

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

who are you to say that? im pretty sure the devs knew this, and they put it in the game knowing so. so the dev’s disagree with you. lol.

It’s a sign of horrible balance in a game when one trait can cancel out a whole professions build. This game isn’t suppose to be Rock, Paper, Scissors.

You can say whatever you want, but the dev’s certainly disagree. I agree that this is indeed sort of a rock-paper-scissors set-up, but fortunately its not throwing out entire professions. Run a direct dmg necro to kill d-skin eles, anything else an ele runs, run condi necro. The condi spamming necro will almost always win against a non d-skin ele. ( remember, either way, the ele isnt killing you. ) its a win-win for you. unless you call not killing something a lose. then we can argue about thieves, etc.

Panhauramix.2784:

I know you must be just a troll and bask in the glory of this new Diamond skin (can’t stop thinking about a certain Rihanna’s song right now, and I don’t even like her that much. Diamond Skin what you make me do!!!).

Nobody here is asking to continue to faceroll, warriors are faceroll. Condi of every sort (Terror even better, being a stun and a condi) had a way to be countered.

We can argue all night long that Necros just dont have the damage output, in a condi build with condi weapons, to deal with and SURVIVE an ele in 1v1 right now. You can claim you can, but your view sounds really biased with a bit of tainted revenge in it, I only read : “Gotcha, suckers!”

The real point here is: This trait is not fun. I dont even think it will be that popular, no it’s not really an issue, but I think we must voice our opinions about traits that have a negative impact on the game, regardless of class.

Again, if necro had a Grandmaster trait that says: Immune to Direct Damage above 90%, (hell, make me have to take 2 grandmasters trait for this effect I would take them.) wouldn’t you think the sky would fall for all those zerk power lovers? Telling them go condi/hybrid or go home?

I play all classes, necro is not my main anymore, but I can still admit that this trait could have been something else, something to help ele, but not completely render them immune with no real skill involved (and yeah, Dhuumfire was also one of those skilless trait).

well, nice try on that analogy, but youre wayyyyy off. direct damage is literally on every single(99%) weapon skill. condition damage barely makes 30% of any given weapon skill. No matter what you do, you do physical damage. you just do.
physical damage and condi damage are apples and oranges. stop trying to compare.

what gets me laughing more is when necros got dhuumfire patch, i actually ranted a bit and necros just told me to run more cleanses or run -cond duration gear. I hated the sound of it, and argued it with them, but i tried it out anyway. and it worked fairly decent against any necro i ran into since then.

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

Summary of every complaining necro in this thread- “Wahhh! Wahhh! I can’t faceroll everyone anymore! I’m going to ignore everything anyone tells me, because I like my old build! I hate change! They’re all WRONG!”

Peace.

Clear example of someone not understanding balance.

Lol you don’t know a thing about this game then.

This video will explain to you what you’ve been missing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

Did you even get 45 seconds into your own video?

One trait should not render an entire professions build useless.

who are you to say that? im pretty sure the devs knew this, and they put it in the game knowing so. so the dev’s disagree with you. lol.

Tricare.2946:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

Summary of every complaining necro in this thread- “Wahhh! Wahhh! I can’t faceroll everyone anymore! I’m going to ignore everything anyone tells me, because I like my old build! I hate change! They’re all WRONG!”

Peace.

Clear example of someone not understanding balance.

Lol you don’t know a thing about this game then.

This video will explain to you what you’ve been missing.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The Game Slayer.7632:

alanis.6094:

The Game Slayer.7632:

What is the difference between kiting out the war for 8 seconds or doing physical damage for < 8 seconds. both are completely realistic counters.

If a conditionmancer could get an Diamond skin elementalist below 90% within 8 seconds by merely physical/power damage, this thread wouldn’t exist.

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

If we don’t change our build, it should still be possible. Difficult, yes, but possible. A character with no condition removal whatsoever can beat a condition damage necro. It will be very difficult, but it is possible. However, it’s mathematically impossible for a condi necro to beat a DS ele. Do you not see how this is a problem? This GRANDMASTER trait IN AN EXTREMELY UNDERUSED TRAITLINE singlehandedly removes skill as a factor in a (SPECIFIC CONDI)necro vs. ele fight.

Even if we do change our build, it would screw us over against everyone else to deal with literally one single build. A weapon change is not “small”. That is 1/3 of our skills. Unfortunately, that is the only way to manage it. You aren’t suggesting an edit to a build, you are saying we should use a terrible build because it’s the only way we can break past a horridly binary trait that reeks of terrible design.

i fixed that for you. I’m not suggesting an edit to the build because thats on you.

Are you asking for a build that facerolls everything you run into with no counters? That’s what it seems. As i’ve said, ludicrous thread.

run cheese necro spamming, and you have a small chance to run into a d-skin ele who will not even kill you because hes bunker. lol…

Aridia.3042:

It’s fun to use it on narrow ledges at certain keeps like Mendon. It’s pretty hilarious when you use perplexity and spam 3 with it for the interrupt.

And you can actually speed up the movement by dodging while in tornado form.

well … 8scd on perplexity runes… so its not viable anymore.

Im using soothing wave, its really nice. (wvw-er btw). its useful against rabid condi spammers, they crit a lot, and dish out condis and i pair up soothing wave with cleansing water. every critical hit every 10s is removing a condi and giving regen. /win

Nah it was fixed to heal for the correct amounts when traited with written in stone, the other earth GM trait.

alanis.6094:

The Game Slayer.7632:

What is the difference between kiting out the war for 8 seconds or doing physical damage for < 8 seconds. both are completely realistic counters.

If a conditionmancer could get an Diamond skin elementalist below 90% within 8 seconds by merely physical/power damage, this thread wouldn’t exist.

Except, you’ve literally done nothing to change your build and you think you can still steam-roll everything that walks your way. Too bad. I don’t feel sorry. This thread is ludicrous.

Summary of every complaining necro in this thread- “Wahhh! Wahhh! I can’t faceroll everyone anymore! I’m going to ignore everything anyone tells me, because I like my old build! I hate change! They’re all WRONG!”

Peace.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

An example of a “perfect imbalance” counter to a condi necro: Guardian running Contemplation of Purity.

He takes what we were doing to him and turns it to his favor. However, any damage the necro dealt is still there and he can respond to it as well (frequently with a Corrupt Boon, to which the Guardian either anticipates with a dodge or re-stacks his boons knowing the corruption is now on cooldown). Even in the corruption situation, the Guardian is likely in a better spot than before thanks to stack reductions from the conversions.

Another example would be Berserker Stance Warriors. They become very difficult to touch as a condition build, but the necro can still kite and wait out the duration of the stance, letting any currently applied conditions do their thing.

Diamond Skin breaks this. There is no condition-counterplay because the conditions never get applied in the first place.

What is the difference between kiting out the war for 8 seconds or doing physical damage for < 8 seconds. both are completely realistic counters.

The other part about perfect imbalance is that you can’t say something is broken and be credited 24 hours after the patch went live. You haven’t even TRIED to counter it. You may have tried with in your build, but eles anticipated that while taking d-skin. you’re going to need to think outside the box. And if you refuse to adapt thats youre fault. youll be part of the forum whiners. There are real players out there who will try to adapt and then if its apparent in real gameplay that those players tried to counter it and are still not beating the d-skin eles with a 90-100% loss ratio THEN and ONLY THEN can you declare this broken.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Only trouble is that the direct-damage burst a condi necro has first requires the target to have a number of conditions. Which doesn’t work because they are immune.

Alternatively, it requires them to be below 50% health, which again is irrelevant since at that point we don’t care about Diamond Skin anymore.

Engineers aren’t as big of a problem because they can’t out-heal our direct damage or they lose their immunity.

I’m willing to wager that a lot of direct damage a necro has relies on a certain amount of condis on your target is not true. I’m sure you can still play condi necro and find a way to kill d-skin eles. i said earlier it wasn’t going to be a few flip-flopping of 2 or 3 traits. give the meta 2-3 weeks first to try and find something to counter it.
Adapt, and rethink a few things about your build. thats on you.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You aren’t shining with that change, though. All you are doing is pushing necros out.

And yes, the ele would kill the necro. Even 5 effective damage is greater than 0. I can garuntee the damage even a bunker ele puts out in 26 seconds is significantly greater than Consume Conditions heals for. Assuming a condition build, the necro can’t gain life force (since Feast of Corruption only gives life force per condition on the target with no base amount and staff 1 will never hit), so death shroud sustain is a one-time deal. It may take a bit, but a Diamond Skin bunker ele will kill any condi necro with no chance of counterplay.

For example, let’s ignore the regeneration boon entirely and just deal with Soothing Mist and Signet of Renewal. Assuming 20 points in Water Magic and no additional healing power, that is 274 health per second from auto-attacking (assuming 1 second per attack, though all water attunement autos are faster than that). This alone nearly equals the physical DPS of a condition necro (30 spite, Carrion amulet gives DPS of around 279 against 2200 armor, which a diamond skin ele has a bit higher than). Adding in any additional source of healing (or healing power) skews things even more in the ele’s favor.

TLDR: Diamond Skin turns bunker eles invincible against condition builds. Not just strong, but invincible. They don’t even have to do anything but auto-attack and move enough to keep the necro in their chosen range. Other bunker builds may have been difficult to kill, but they also required high skill on the bunker’s part. Diamond Skin ele? Just auto-attack and occasionally give yourself regen. Oh, and you’re a kittenty bunker because literally anyone else can come and stomp you with ease.

I said myself eles weren’t shining all that much. The mathematical problems you are doing aren’t nearly as sound as they are too. Signet is a constant, you can’t burst your heal from signet, but damage, you can. assuming a raw hps from signet is actually accurate. where as assuming a raw dps from necro is not accurate and is only useful for PvE. the whole point of diamond skin is to quickly do away with the eles threshold and then add your condis when its gone. the threshold on avg is going to be 1k-1.5k. when youre condis start ticking after you poke a hole in it, you better believe the ele is NEVER going to get back above that threshold so long as you keep the condi pressure up.

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

our time to shine

back about a year ago

LOL.

If you’re posting an absurd argument, don’t expect a rational response.
Balance means balance means equality. “Time to shine” is the exact opposite of that.

except youve missed the very point i actually made earlier. A perfectly balanced game is a game like chess, or checkers. The system of balancing gw2 uses is called perfect imbalance. let me send you a link to a video that would much much better describe it than me.

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

our time to shine

had their time to shine – back about a year ago

LOL.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Necros don’t have any passive regen, so yes, the ele sitting in water attunement is killing us. Slowly, perhaps, but still killing us.

And the 750 is not only counting Soothing Mist and Regeneration, but also Signet of Restoration. Actually, this contributes more than Regeneration and is very much constant.

signet is not consistent but it does add as you say. signet doesnt protect you if we get dropped below the threshold. and utilizing signet in such a way (as ive said) will only leave you with a threshold of 1k.
The type of build you are describing means this- The ele is not going to kill you. period. since when are bunkers bad now in 1v1’s. they can’t kill you, you can’t kill them. its been that way a while with other professions, why is it bad all of a sudden for eles? to say that eles are killing you while utilizing this spec is the equivalent of saying bunker guardians are killing you. you even said it yourself " slowly " yea, lets nerf eles again and keep them in t3. lol. sorry, our time to shine. And as if we are even shining that hard too. yayy! eles can go bunker again! against one specific build on one specific profession! ;D

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I did some searching on how we could get Damage over that Elementalist treshold of 2 k hp , (water attuned) with a 750hp regen on heal with our weapon sets.

Without DS #1 traited Soulreaping A VI Unyielding Blast,
it is simply not possible.. unless you want the ele to heal to full after you did all your weapon rotations.

Or blow your utilities at the start hoping the ele is a scrub and doesn’t know how to heal.

So bring axe/focus on a power build to strip the regen off and get DS up that is all you can do.
follow up with your weapon skills to stack conditions.. wait for the cleanse/heal then start all over again and hope someone comes along to help.

the trick to counter this Diamond skin is getting your DS up as fast and much as possible..

How Anet thinks we are “the” attrition profession and then hit all other classes with artrition like healing i do not know

whoa now, i like your ambition but you are spewing out some ridiculously made up numbers.

What you just said is the equivalent of me saying “warriors can do 20k damage in one attack, have 2,000 regen a second, area CC with hammer, stability for 30 seconds, all in the same build.”

Do you see how f-ing ridiculous that sounds? Its slightly comparable to warriors, but in no way at all is it remotely true.

An ele with 750hp regen a second is not possible. literally not possible. I mean, literally.
A- if an ele is literally sitting in water attunement as you say he is, hes not killing you. LOL
B- the highest amount of regen an ele can get is 450. (regen boon and soothing mist). And the regen is on extremely low durations.
C- And then IF the ele had a regen of 450, his threshold would be extremely low, near 1,200, not 2,000 due to the healing power stat being there and not vitality stat.
D- if an ele could run 0-0-30-30-30, he would. news flash though, he can’t. theres no such thing as an ele healing to full with water if hes running d-skin. max heals with d-skin=1500 every 15+ seconds if traited(which also means he isnt running any offensive traits).

TL;DR- don’t spew out bs’d numbers.

PS- this is an ele trait, move this to ele forums. why on earth this is in necro forums?

Draehl.2681:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Balefire.7592:

The Game Slayer.7632:

ITS OUR TURN BABY!
this video can explain to you exactly whats going on.

PS: diamond skin has not shut down the necromancer class, just the necromancer condi builds. (just so that is clear)

Please tell me when was the last time a power Necro killed an Ele.
Especially given the fact we can no longer Chill, Cripple or Fear you to catch up with your mobility.

You’re thinking a little too simple tho darling. Baby you gotta think outside the box. What you’re feeling right now is similar to what i was feeling when eles got nerfed and other professions got buffed. I was forced to think outside the box, and experiment.

There is no “outside the box” here. Necros have no hard CC outside of the three conditions I listed (plus one Immob, which is also a condition). A dagger Necro simply cannot stay on any Ele with a pulse long enough to do damage.\
I don’t care that they nerfed condition damage builds. I care that they nerfed the few skills Necros had that could let them land damage/prevent escapes.

Yea, you shouldve heard me in the forums when eles got nerfed. Its all part of the cycle man. You’re soon going to realize that this is intended, that it’s eles time to shine, and that necros time to shine is coming to a close now. That doesn’t mean that necros are going to be completely useless, cause i stuck it out with ele and in a few weeks i found something half-way decent to carry me through to this patch. If you dont like the type of balancing anet does, that means theyre actually succeeding. Thats just the nature of imperfect balancing.

I’m well aware that Ele’s have suffered. But an eye for an eye leaves the world blind.
I’m not asking for the removal of Diamond Skin. You can keep it – but a version that doesn’t ruin everything Necros are about.

fortunately you have attacks that do damage and damage is what counters diamond skin. if the ele is outhealing you, that means hes full bunker and he cant kill you anyway. if he IS killing you, that means he is zerk spec and you’re power necro builds are going to rip him apart. give the meta some time to shift.

That’s the whole point though. If we can’t catch the Ele, we can’t do any damage. I’m not asking for a removal of the trait – keep your bleed, poison, burning and torment immunity. Condi spam is OP, so that’s valid. But my snares aren’t what kills you, they’re what allows me to actually be able to fight.

think of something. That’s on you. adapt to the gameplay is all i can say. i need to go to bed, ill visit this forum tomorrow to talk some more. peace

Translation: There is no counter – I want your class to be complete trash because mine was.

yup. like i said, eles time to shine. OH but do remember!!! this game is based around spvp where its most of the time never 1v1. 5v5 is more relevant. and you’re very right in thinking that im going to enjoy the hell out of steam-rolling every single necro i run into. its going to be a necro-slaughtering for the next few months. i love it, and every second i will cherish it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The Game Slayer.7632:

alanis.6094:

The Game Slayer.7632:

ITS OUR TURN BABY!
this video can explain to you exactly whats going on.

PS: diamond skin has not shut down the necromancer class, just the necromancer condi builds. (just so that is clear)

You see all those points in the video where he discusses how “perfect imbalance” is good, but you don’t want things that are broken? Diamond Skin is what he is warning about.

No, youve almost understood it, many many people are going to use diamond skin (Including i), and then people are going to look to find counters against it. you can’t possibly say diamond skin is broken without giving it 2-3 weeks to settle in while people build to counter it.

Not quite. Diamond Skin is indeed one of those broken cases. In SC2, you can beat a battlecruiser strategy by using a ton of mutalisks. It’s difficult, but quite possible, typically involving outmaneuvering the much slower Terran capital ships. Even a head-on engagement can work if you have enough mutas (though it will be very costly). Diamond Skin is like trying to take down said battlecruisers with roaches: it results in a one-sided slaughter.

You’re statement is not credible at all due to the time frame that’s been allotted to test different options.