Guild Wars 2

Supreme.3164:

Here an article that really should be read by everybody, reflect upon it..and act accordingly..

http://vrworld.com/2009/03/24/mmo-industry-or-the-plague-of-nerfs/

therefore I’m not here to lecture anybody from any high moral ground but at the very least I have the courage to admit it..what about you?

Good article, but you’re now lecturing from the high ground of “I’m more courageous and admitting than you are.” Now I’m playing the game of “I’m more observant of all the social games that we’re playing.” It’s inescapable.

But I suppose that’s all irrelevant to gw2. Thanks for the information you’ve found!

UmbraNoctis.1907:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Power creep is not really an issue so long as it is the core classes that are buffed in said manner. And limiting build diversity? Not really.. I mean, please, go on to explain further. I’m open to the possibility of just being completely ignorant to whatever other factors that you might be seeing.

The problem with powercreep is, that it reduces counterplay and requires counterbuilding. The stronger traits and skills are, the less important player skill becomes. It forces you to take certain traits and skill and there is no way you can create a working build with different traits and skills. That’s why it limits diversity and creates unfun fights that are desided more by build than by player actions.

And that’s especially true for resistance, which gives 100% immunity. It is compareable to things like endure pain and signet of stone, stuff that has short duration and long cd for good reasons. There is no way a condi build would be able to win by outplaying a resistance spamming build without massive boon removal. It wouldn’t open up more options, you won’t be able to not choose the boon remove if you want a working build.
Now i get that this is what you want to achieve – forcing condi builds to take the boon remove instead of defense. And then all condibuilds would end up like builds, that already have to give up (too much) defense – builds like condi engi or trap ranger for example – they won’t be viable anymore. A certain amount of defense is absolutely mandatory, especially for condi builds which can’t burst as well as power builds. And the meta condi builds are not really bunkers and already have less sustain than for example scrapper or druid.

Now i would agree that for example condi warrior has too much sustain and dmg in one build. But this can be fixed by nerfing the particular build. The same applies to everything op. You don’t have to screw up a whole mechanic and tons of weak builds, to tone down a few overperforming things.

I don’t really care, if meta builds get nerfed. Actually i would like to see a lot of things nerfed – including some condi builds of course. But all those “nerf condi threads” doesn’t focus on some actual op things, they basically suggest to make condi builds absolute garbage in general, often based on completely false assumptions (like this nonsense about non-existent condi remove on meta builds or all those unblockable/unevadeable condis). And even though i usually don’t play condi myself, i like to experiment and try out “unusual” builds, which of course includes condi and hybrid builds. And i don’t want those unviable builds to become even worse, that’s pretty much the only reason, why i keep defending condis in threads like this.

One has to assume that in order to gain increased amounts of resistance, that the player with the resistance is also sacrificing a lot as well. Obviously it would be ridiculous to have resistance spamming builds with little to none opportunity cost.

If it did turn out to be too much, resistance itself could be nerfed as well. (See my suggestion in previous paragraph.) There are a lot of ways around power creep.

But you do bring up some fair points about builds themselves being too powerful, instead of condi’s overall. I too, think some of the people in this thread are a little too short sighted with the false assumptions you were talking about, but that’s not really something you have to pay too much attention to. A smart developer reading the thread would ignore that much more than some of the other comments here.

What can I say? I’m just salty that no matter what, I can’t 1v1 a condi necro on my engineer no matter what build I use on him. I guess condi necros need more nerfs, eh? Or I could just be terrible. Hahaha.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

About your suggestion – buffing access to resistance and boon removal adds just more powercreep and limits build diversity even more – the last thing, the game needs.

Power creep is not really an issue so long as it is the core classes that are buffed in said manner. And limiting build diversity? Not really.. I mean, please, go on to explain further. I’m open to the possibility of just being completely ignorant to whatever other factors that you might be seeing.

But all this does is add more diversity, tbh. If boon stripping is buffed at the same time that resistance prevalence is increased, you have two game mechanics that balance each other out, while fixing the problem of bunker condi dealers. Huh, get that. “Balance.” You make the condi builds choose boon stripping over sustain, and soon you see many more options opening up. Hard decisions in making your build optimal is what should be strived for when you balance your game.

Of course, I’d like to think that increased access to resistance should warrant a small nerf or two, such as “Damaging conditions are ineffective.” instead of all conditions. The increase in boon hate just might not be enough to warrant increased prevalence of resistance alone. But that’s what testing is for. There’s always more ways around changes like that.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Your whole post is based on a false assumption. How hard or easy a build is to play has absolutely nothing to do with power or condi.

If you want something changed, maybe start providing reasonable arguments instead of the same wrong arguments over and over again.

Oh, it completely does. Go on, try vipers or rampagers and let me know how it feels to get melted without the 900 toughness.

Or you can actually address the suggestions I proposed in the paragraph instead of saying “YOU FALSE, BOI!”

Milan.9035:

JTGuevara.9018:

I can’t believe there are people defending condis.

Conditions are not only strong themselves, with sigils they’re even stronger. HoT traits ESPECIALLY make them stronger. Added on top of that, with some builds you can spike them instantly as if you were playing a power build. Warrior mace primal burst is a good example. Conditions can be mitigated through resistance and regen, but resistance can be stripped and regen is just worthless. Cleansing only works once and in the blink of an eye, they’re reapplied. There’s barely, if any, a reliable counter or a method of immunity against them. Before anyone responds, yes, I know about condi conversions and skills like defiant stance, but that’s it. Conditions don’t have a reliable counter to them.

Power builds on the other hand, can be….blocked, blinded, inflicted with weakness, mitigated with protection, invuln AND negation . I mean come on! It’s out of control! There’s a LOT of condi BS right now. Nobody can deny it.

Stupid posts like this really kitten me off.

You are saying condi attacks cant be blinded or blocked???

Lets see the differences….

Vs power you got weakness and protection

Vs condi you got reaistance and cleanse

Looks fair to me….

If youfail to avoid an attack and get hit. vs power you get full damage, if its condi you get time after to deal with the damage.

I think it’s really hard to just throw a few things in the void and compare the two like that. The bottom line is that balancing is not easy, and that no matter what position you take in how things are balanced in the game, you have to take into consideration an enormous amount of variables. The thing is this: Anet needs condi builds. It gives the lesser skilled players something to use and still do decent. In other words, the learning curve for condi builds should be very low, and the skill ceiling should also be low. For power, the learning curve is high and the skill ceiling is also high. From a balance and money making point of view, it all makes sense. For example: look at Call of Duty- MW2. Remember the noob tube? Grenade launcher with one man army? It takes much less skill to use the grenade launcher, but it’s very hard to do very well with it.

The thing I’m really getting at is this: condi builds have a high skill ceiling and a low learning curve. The skill ceiling for condis needs to be lower. (Whatever that entails.)

The reason it needs to be lower is simply because you can run an amulet with 900 toughness attached to it and still pump out the same numbers that any other condition amulet has. And the argument I’ve received from someone is that “900 toughness is barely anything.” Ha. Ha. Hah. haha.

So, condis can stay how they are. That’s fine. But something needs to change. More access to resistance, and more access to boon stripping could work. So that if someone wanted to be a condi build and still do very well, they would have to sacrifice sustain for boon stripping because of the increased amounts of resistance in all of the professions. Or they could keep their sustain and hope that the other player hasn’t built their build for more resistance. (Here in comes the lower skill ceiling part.)

Thoughts?..

Med kit is far too tedious to use. It’s a great concept, but it just doesn’t measure up well practically.

Sorel.4870:

The Game Slayer.7632:

So be it, I just find that it would be far easier in terms of balance to adjust the condition itself than to adjust countless traits, sigils, runes, and weapon skills to make weakness less prevalent.

Easier, sure. Appropriate, I disagree. Again, weakness, like protection and stability, used to have a big impact on a fight, something you would try to use at the right moment, or save a cleanse for. Going back to something like that would be more fun than just having yet another condition you don’t need to care about.

Anet did this with confusion. Once upon a time, when you had 5 stacks of confusion and you spammed your skill like a pianist, you would die almost instantly. Now there is very little need for careful confusion management (with the exception of a good Crow Bar when the rev is casting UA, that’s always fun), and confusion is another glorified bleed/burn.

Hey, I’m happy with either, tbh. So I’m not really going to argue against you on that point.

niea.7504:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Allow me to reiterate what I’m proposing for weakness: I think that glancing blows should be 2/3 the damage instead of half damage. The endurance regeneration should go down to -33% instead of 50.

That’s one idea among many, many others have suggested in the thread. The overwhelming majority of people in this thread agree that weakness needs to be changed, somehow, if not that then nerfed at the very least.

Keep the talk going. I’m glad there are others who agree with me and see what I’m seeing.

LOL

Nice addition to the conversation. Very detailed. Call me delusional, but you can tally up all of the people who agree that weakness is a little problematic. It’s not like this isn’t some sort of public thread where you can see all of the comments and replies or anything.

Sorel.4870:

The Game Slayer.7632:

The overwhelming majority of people in this thread agree that weakness needs to be changed, somehow, if not that then nerfed at the very least.

I’m not sure about that conclusion. I’ve seen many saying that its application is too frequent, which is not quite the same as proposing a nerf to weakness itself.

“weakness needs to be changed” includes the frequency of application. One thing is clear: they too agree that weakness is a problem.

So be it, I just find that it would be far easier in terms of balance to adjust the condition itself than to adjust countless traits, sigils, runes, and weapon skills to make weakness less prevalent.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

900 toughness alone does barely anything without defensive traits and utilities. Lack of vitality can be an issue too (there is no marauder equivalent for condi builds).

I like to take trap ranger as example. For reasonable dmg output he has to invest into an offensive traitline and offensive utilities which results in much less overall defense than something like a marauder druid, who takes only defensive traitlines and utilities, even if the trap ranger has higher defensive stats from the amulet. Trap ranger is a condi build, yet far from viable. Being condi doesn’t make a build automatically good. It’s not the condis in general, that are an issue.

Or look at scrapper, who has sustain like a bunker, even with an offensive amulet. All from traits and skills.

Also keep in mind, condi builds don’t only lose less dmg with tankier amulets, this also means, they gain less dmg than power builds by going full glass, especially when it comes to burst dmg. In most cases zerk would be superior to sinister due to much better burst dmg.

Traits and skills are irrelevant- both condi builds and power builds can use them. It’s not a point for discussion when you’re talking about power and condi. Period.

You go on to say 900 toughness means absolutely nothing. Okay. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.

MethaneGas.8357:

The Game Slayer.7632:

The thing is though, (and I’m restating this as this isn’t the first time I’ve said it), The reason power meta builds have “waaay more sustain than condi” is because they had to sacrifice much of their power output to increase their sustain. (By the way, this is completely assuming that your statement is true, which I disagree with because it’s not even close to the truth.)

If you want to increase your sustain as a condition build, you don’t have to sacrifice any of your condition damage.

That’s not really true. Scrapper, Revenant, Druid, DH (some more than others) really good sustain on top of really good damage. Revenant has a crazy amount of defenses and is basically full glass. Scrapper is almost fully specced into defense and can be a kitten to kill but can have nice damage on top of it. Druid can be super tanky while the pet does massive damage to you and the Druid just kites. DH has great defenses and damage too but they are… what they are.
On top of that, most power builds have a ton of damage modifiers all over their traits…. whereas condi damage literally has no damage modifiers, aside from the occasional Might and Vuln (both of which power builds utilize just as well, if not better).

And to say that condi builds sacrifice nothing for damage – Warriors are a little dumb, but they spec largely into defenses to be able to be that tanky. Necros have to spec into Soul Reaping and Reaper which gives sustain – otherwise they’d be squish.

Okay, you’re not really understanding what I’m saying here. I’ll clarify my point and try to make it simpler.

The difference between a zerker and paladins amulet is huge in terms of power damage.

The difference between a sinister and rabid amulet is 900 toughness, with no change to the amount of condition damage you’d be doing.

You make the traits whatever you want to make them in either power or condi, 900 toughness is arguably far better than any trait line out there.

Krysard.1364:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Condis need 1 stat to be powerful. Power needs 3.

You also don’t have nearly as many traits that simply proc on crit like condis do. Imagine a world where condi and power are on the same level.. You’d have things like protection, which would protect against condition damage. Toughness too.

See, the problem with condition damage is that you can do the maximum damage that condis can do and still manage to have 1/3 or 1/2 of your stats allocated to being a bunker. If you want to do the same with power, you need to go zerker. End of story. Imagine a full zerk player going up against a full ‘glass’ condi build.. (lets say that condition damage required 3 stats).. You’d be having some fair fights going on. But we don’t see that.

The reason people call other people out for being condi, and the reason why people say power takes more skill, is for the aforementioned reason. If you mess up as condi, it’s okay because you have a ridiculous amount of stats to help you out defensively. (Also did I mention that you’re still doing max damage as a condition dealer? I feel like people should know that.)

The thing is, power meta builds have waaay more sustain than condi ones do.

The thing is though, (and I’m restating this as this isn’t the first time I’ve said it), The reason power meta builds have “waaay more sustain than condi” is because they had to sacrifice much of their power output to increase their sustain. (By the way, this is completely assuming that your statement is true, which I disagree with because it’s not even close to the truth.)

If you want to increase your sustain as a condition build, you don’t have to sacrifice any of your condition damage.

Allow me to reiterate what I’m proposing for weakness: I think that glancing blows should be 2/3 the damage instead of half damage. The endurance regeneration should go down to -33% instead of 50.

That’s one idea among many, many others have suggested in the thread. The overwhelming majority of people in this thread agree that weakness needs to be changed, somehow, if not that then nerfed at the very least.

Keep the talk going. I’m glad there are others who agree with me and see what I’m seeing.

Condis need 1 stat to be powerful. Power needs 3.

You also don’t have nearly as many traits that simply proc on crit like condis do. Imagine a world where condi and power are on the same level.. You’d have things like protection, which would protect against condition damage. Toughness too.

See, the problem with condition damage is that you can do the maximum damage that condis can do and still manage to have 1/3 or 1/2 of your stats allocated to being a bunker. If you want to do the same with power, you need to go zerker. End of story. Imagine a full zerk player going up against a full ‘glass’ condi build.. (lets say that condition damage required 3 stats).. You’d be having some fair fights going on. But we don’t see that.

The reason people call other people out for being condi, and the reason why people say power takes more skill, is for the aforementioned reason. If you mess up as condi, it’s okay because you have a ridiculous amount of stats to help you out defensively. (Also did I mention that you’re still doing max damage as a condition dealer? I feel like people should know that.)

Anet please make a toggle-able option to turn off throwing the 2-5 skills.
Thanks for even considering it!

If it’s just a ‘no’, I would really like to know why. Throwing them is insanely tedious… It’s the most tedious thing I’ve ever done in this game. It’s why I can only use med kit for 3 minutes and then go back to alchemy for elixir h.

I remember the reason I stopped playing this game. I might do another break. Knowing anet they’ll buff condis, buff sustain, and nerf power. If this balance patch looks like that, I’m done.

Really, does anyone else feel the same about these rampant condi bunkers?

Ahhh this is dumb! Whenever I try to take a screenshot, it get’s rid of the mouse-over for the information given..

To see what I’m talking about, equip perfectly weighted (the scrapper trait where you deal more damage with hammer) and mouse over your function gyro trait.

Noticed that when I had perfectly weighted equipped, that the function gyro would have 2 stacks of stability for ~10 seconds. When it is switched out for something else, the function gyro didn’t have this. (It appears that no matter what, function gyro does not receive stability when it is used, which leads me to think this is a bug.. either visually or not as intended..)

Some photos to explain further.

Please keep in mind what it does at the moment. If someone is going to argue (not saying that you’re arguing this) that weakness is not very strong, then they are kidding themselves.

-50% endurance regeneration + 50% of all hits are glancing (half damage.) The endurance regen is enough in itself, but the damage reduction is a little overkill.

I think that glancing blows should be 2/3 the damage instead of half damage. The endurance regeneration should go down to -33% instead of 50. That would still make weakness a good condition overall without nerfing it too much, but would help reduce the sustain that condi bunkers have against everyone.

I know that there could be 100 different solutions to any given problem.. but it would be a fair statement to say that a factor in all of the condi bunker QQ can be attributed to weakness. Or maybe condi bunkers aren’t being qq’d right now. Maybe they’re not a problem. Maybe I’m a dog. (and you would never know, because this is the internet. no one can truly know whether you’re a dog or not.) What do you guys think?

Scrappers don’t have a second weapon. Yes, they have kits. But if being forced to have at least 1 or 2 kits becomes the norm for scrappers if they get nerfed on hammer cd’s, that would murder engineer build diversity.

I saw someone in this thread post that hammer 3 is a 1000 leap, so they can enter and exit combat at will.. That argument is silly, because the real distance gained is close to 100-200 out of combat and about 300-400 in combat. Yes, its better if you’re snared too, but its absolutely nothing compared say, an instant teleport.

My question to those who think scrapper’s are op is this: You claim that these cd’s are the offenders here. Okay. But what is it that is offending you? What about scrapper is overpowered? Furthermore, what class are you playing?

Tiilimon.6094:

My experiences in WvW seem different, ally health bars barely move DOWN at all because I can easily keep em topped if my guys stand in HOT fields, and we beat the same size blobs without casualties

I also use mortar and dot everything to gain loots, to me it sounds like you’re playing it wrong.

I’m not saying that med kit is terrible and needs to be incredibly buffed.. It’s a good kit. I’m saying that the 2-5 throw skills need to be changed in how they are used. The way you have to throw them down is so incredibly tedious. Juggling skills and kits is already too much.

I want to love it.. But I can’t. This game isn’t meant for the clunky play style this kit brings.

Make med kit much less clunky? Maybe nerf the 2-5 skills and make them not so ridiculously… ‘clunky’.. please. That’s all I ask. This thing needs more change.

Edit: Let me clarify what I’m postulating here. The 2-5 skills on the med kit are tedious to use. Make them like med bombs or something, just get rid of the throwing mechanic. Or make it a toggle-able choice for the old version.. There is a good reason why I never took the med kit trait to throw your med bags in pre-h.o.t. It was terrible, and forcing the players to use that mechanic is.. again… tedious.

Sneak gyro isn’t really OP. You can’t really run away with it.. It’s useful for stomps/revives, and with its status at the moment after being nerfed, it’s rather reasonable for an elite. I run supply crate still.

It’s more PVE oriented, but you don’t need 10k – 10k-10k-10k ticks in pvp.

BlackBeard.2873:

The Game Slayer.7632:

You don’t get it. The condi game is completely changed. Turning every damaging condi into intensity makes condi-bursting a real thing, especially with burning. Nothing you say with regards to pre-patch information applies anymore. Does it matter that an engi can apply some vuln, chill, bleed, poison, 1 stack of burning and 2 stacks of confusion anymore? Sure. It can still work. Does it also matter that an ele can now hit you with 15 stacks of burning that last for 5 seconds? YES. Your cleanse game better be on-point for condi eles.

That being said, I am not saying that they will become a thing, I’m just saying that you cannot say anything as of right now, because it sure as hell is way more possible than it has ever been.

I understand what you are saying. The problem is, even if you want to make a “burn stacking” build, you aren’t going to be stacking up crazy amounts of burns. You are still going to be stuck fighting an attrition fight in a burst game (atm). Guardians might be able to make a burn build, b/c they can stack lots of burns then just blind/block everything. Engineers might be able to make a burn build b/c they can stack crazy burns and 4-5 cover condis to make sure you have to eat it. Ele can stack maybe 3-4 burns reasonably, and its just not consistent enough. Even if you have high uptime on fire aura, that requires you to be tanky enough to take a beating, which means you need toughness/vitality.

The problem for ele is that b/c of low tough/vit and how strong people can burst now, you NEED to have both on a build or you are susceptible to 1-shots (from stealth even) now.

3-4 burns, reasonably? I can consistently hit 8-15 burns in pvp.. (while going arcana/earth/water, using carrion amulet.) do you know what 8-15 burns for even 4 seconds means? (it lasts for 5-8 seconds)

4k-6k-6k-4k-3k-1k. That’s the burning damage. It’s scary.

BlackBeard.2873:

The Game Slayer.7632:

BlackBeard.2873:

Probably not. Ele can’t condi-burst like other classes, which can put out many stacks of torment, bleeds, confusion, and burns all in one hit.

The ramp is too slow to do that.

For pvp, everything does too much damage and there isn’t a viable condition damage pvp-amulet that has toughness AND vitality to survive long enough for your condis to kill.

I’d love to disagree. The condition game is completely changed with this update. We will have to see. Burst- burning can be a ‘thing’ now.

I’d love to see condi ele be a “thing” too. In pvp, I am 99% sure it is impossible, however, given the current amulet options. With no vit/toughness from trait-lines, you can’t afford to not have 1 of them if you are building for a tanky build. If you want to burst, you are probably better off building for power-burst.

Also, free conditions from trait “procs” just can’t compete with what other classes have. On something like an engie, necro, or even condi mesmer, you can just fart and apply 7 condis.

You don’t get it. The condi game is completely changed. Turning every damaging condi into intensity makes condi-bursting a real thing, especially with burning. Nothing you say with regards to pre-patch information applies anymore. Does it matter that an engi can apply some vuln, chill, bleed, poison, 1 stack of burning and 2 stacks of confusion anymore? Sure. It can still work. Does it also matter that an ele can now hit you with 15 stacks of burning that last for 5 seconds? YES. Your cleanse game better be on-point for condi eles.

That being said, I am not saying that they will become a thing, I’m just saying that you cannot say anything as of right now, because it sure as hell is way more possible than it has ever been.

BlackBeard.2873:

Probably not. Ele can’t condi-burst like other classes, which can put out many stacks of torment, bleeds, confusion, and burns all in one hit.

The ramp is too slow to do that.

For pvp, everything does too much damage and there isn’t a viable condition damage pvp-amulet that has toughness AND vitality to survive long enough for your condis to kill.

I’d love to disagree. The condition game is completely changed with this update. We will have to see. Burst- burning can be a ‘thing’ now.

foste.3098:

Coronit.9432:

And D/D has together with P/P the worst moblitity of all weapon sets.

That is so wrong. D/D has mobility that rivals that of the shortbow and in turn the mobility of d/p, let me brake it down:
heartseeker costs 3 ini and has a range of 450 units.
Infiltrator’s arrow costs 6 ini and has a range of 900 units.
So 2 heartseekers take you as far as 1 i.arrow, BUT they are also affected by swiftness so that 450 range becomes 600. And so 2 heartseekers can move you 1200 units for the same cost as 1 i.arrow.
Now the movement on h.seeker goes both ways and if you have cripple or chill it becomes much worst that i.arrow.
Also keep in mind that you have to angle the camera the correct way so that you don’t stop half way through the leap(don’t pan in down like you do when you stack stealth with black powder).
Ofcourse the disadvantage h.seeker has, in comparison to infiltrator’s strike/ arrow, is that it is not a instant teleport (this is a non issue with d/p since you have shadow shot), but it makes up for it because you can use it whenever you like to close distance or create it (since it has not mechanic like infiltrator’s return and is 3 initiative, thus more affordable for chasing/escaping).

On a side note p/d has next to no chasing power seeing how shadow strike is restricted to making distance, not closing it and no land speed (in my eyes it is the second worst set for mobility after p/p).

Well written op, now we can hope the qq-ers actually reed it, and not just constantly cry about teefs and request nerfs…
one can only hope.

As far as mobility goes, that is incorrect. Two heartseekers don’t necessarily mean 1200 range if you have swiftness. You’re right about swiftness, but the time it takes for one heartseeker to complete the move is 3/4 seconds with a 1/4 second aftercast. About 1 second for one full heartseeker. Infiltrators arrow takes about 1/2 second to complete 900 range. If something only takes 1/2 seconds to achieve 900 range, while the other takes 2 seconds to reach 900 range, then you are getting much more bang for your buck with infiltrators arrow. Because heartseeker takes longer to complete, that makes it less mobile than people think it is.

Base speed is ~300 units per second out of combat. If you are moving at 300 units per second and you cast something that moves you only 450 distance over the period of one second, then you only get 150 total distance gained. Since heartseekers distance scales with this though, you would actually get about 250 distance total for each heartseeker when out of combat. In combat, it is roughly 200 distance for each heartseeker. Infiltrators arrow takes 1/2 a second to complete, for a maximum of 900 distance. Again, moving at ~300 u/s out of combat, this equates to 750 total distance gained. And in combat, the arrow gets you about 800 total distance gained, since in combat speed is ~200 u/s. It would take about 4 heartseekers in combat to equal one infiltrators arrow in combat. I hope this makes sense.

Seems really unnecessary. And it would break the game too.. Why not just add more conjure traits?.. It’s a bit ridiculous.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

It hasnt been touched really. seen a d/d dual and was easily maintaining 18 stacks.

18 might stacks aren’t the same anymore either. 18 might stacks after this patch is roughly equivalent to 15 stacks of might pre-patch. Remember the 35-30?

Mainhand sword. Thematically fits the wizard role, and dagger is the only other melee choice.

xDudisx.5914:

Ghotistyx.6942:

I told this to the Guardian forums and I’ll tell it to you too. Juggernaut has no nerf. You get the same exact power and condition damage from Juggernaut as you would from any other source of 5-9 might. Everyone’s Might is getting reduced the exact same, not just Juggernaut’s.

The might boon was nerfed for everyone but not every build focus in might. So yes a build running juggernaut was nerfed.

If they reduced confusion dmg by 90% the nerf would be for every one using the condition but not every is using it. Same logic works with might. The ones that make heavier usage of might suffer more than everyone else.

I don’t see your logic. Confusion is used by 2 classes mainly. Might is used by all 8, a lot.

Dante.8456:

thats only 20 (4×5) new skills . . no biggie

but honestly, if its a mainhand / offhand new weapon then it will only be 12/8 new skills respectively instead of 20. I’m sure eles could ask for an offhand shield, or mainhand sword or something of the likes.
Saying 20 new skills implies it is two handed.

So interesting you made this video, because, all of this stuff I already naturally did.. But I was never consciously aware of it. Good video!

Skeletor.9360:

Direct bow damage….shows damage…health bar does not move. Finally just gave up and found another target.

Well, what class are you?

Are you pure bunker?
If you are, why are you expecting to kill anything as a bunker?

If not, are you zerk? If you’re zerk, are you spamming #1 in hopes that the ele will die? Auto attacking, hoping to kill?

Obviously, you are also unkillable as well since you said " Finally just gave up and found another target "

¯\ _ (- _ -) _ /¯

Just wanted to post this here. This happened for me today. You all should stop using shadow arts/acro. It ridiculously buffs your survival while ridiculously nerfing damage.

(yes, this is my serious build that I use in ranked pvp matches.)

I agree. Elementalist’s ride the lightning needs to be 60s cd upon not hitting someone, 30s cd on hitting someone. Reduce range by 600, so that it only goes 600 range. Elementalist is wayyyyy too mobile.

I mean, it’s not like ride the lightning has been nerfed 5 times already. If it were, then this suggestion probably would be overkill and irrational. But since this skill has not been touched since the start of the game, it’s about time for it to receive a nerf.

Saturn.6591:

The Game Slayer.7632:

It’s many thieves only stunbreak, use it for that only. Or if you need to run. It should never be used for offense, much how like lightning flash on ele is. This is just my opinion.

To be fair, there are Elementalists who use Lightning Flash offensively, just like there’s Mesmers who use Blink for offense. But that’s obviously something you should only do if you’re positive that you won’t need it to survive in the next x seconds.

Oh, and you’re talking about the utility skill of course. The other shadowsteps that Thieves have, are almost always used offensively (except IA on Shortbow).

OMGimAnoobLOLOL.4730:

A key thing with using steps to create pressure is to NOT BE PREDICTABLE. These are things to have up your sleeve. BP+Heartseeker and stepping Shadowstep+Infil Signet+Steal won’t make you an MLG 1 shotter all day.

Lol, I’ve just looked up “MLG” on urbandictionary, and found that both definitions may fit sometimes. “Major League Gaming” or "Men Lacking Girlfriends, aka ‘pro’ gamers ".

That was what I was trying to say. My bad, I should’ve said “unlike how lightning flash for ele is”

mango.9267:

At least it’s not as bad as incinerator from stealth.

No, incinerator is fine. Nobody can see your steps while in stealth.

Simon.3794:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Simon.3794:

Yes, like the idea, right now the blinks skill are too good thats why these classes are superior roamers.

That has nothing to do with the post.

And to OP: That kind of stuff is really hard to code. Teleporting through walls and up onto ledges is something anet does not want you to do. But as of right now, it’s not totally game breaking, so they are polishing the world and all the places you can do that one place at a time.

blinks=teleportation.
not sure what you meant..

Engineers are good roamers. Warriors are good roamers.. The other 4/5 classes which have blinks/teleports are good roamers. Kinda seems that the only two classes which aren’t good at roaming are necros and guardians, one of which has a few teleports/blinks.(guardian)

It seems that teleport skills are not a major culprit when it comes to being able to roam well. A minor culprit, because they allow for some degree of mobility, but are in no way the single reason as to why roamers are succeeding. (IE: Guardians have two teleports and are not good roamers, while engis and wars have no teleports and are great roamers.)

Don’t know what you mean either….

Simon.3794:

Yes, like the idea, right now the blinks skill are too good thats why these classes are superior roamers.

That has nothing to do with the post.

And to OP: That kind of stuff is really hard to code. Teleporting through walls and up onto ledges is something anet does not want you to do. But as of right now, it’s not totally game breaking, so they are polishing the world and all the places you can do that one place at a time.

Is an elementalist with rampagers gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with clerics gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with berzerker gear overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with any stat set beside celestial overpowering? No.

Is an elementalist with a sigil of agony and a sigil of doom overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with a sigil of force and a sigil of accuracy overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with runes of the krait overpowering? No.
Is an elementalist with runes of the ogre overpowering? No.

Is an elementalist with runes of strength, battle sigil and celestial gear specced with full bunker traits overpowering? Yes.

Arena-net, you decide what is going on here. Some players may disagree with me, but I would not call it a long shot to say that many players can agree with me. Certainly though, my opinions do not represent the gw2 community, but for this particular post, I have molded my opinions to what I see people are complaining about in the game and in the forums. Certainly, when we see people complaining about ele, its always about that cele/strength/battle/bunker spec.

wauwi.9162:

I couldn’t laugh at this, even tho, the OP startet out promising enough.

3/10. “Almost entertaining”

Dunno man, this wasn’t that bad. I was a little entertained. I’m giving it a 5/10.

glock.6590:

Celementalist needs a Nerf.

Lmao, this has been dead for almost a month nearly twice. You and two other players have personally been responsible for this thread being alive in the first place.

Guys, let this thread die. All points have been discussed, there is no more to say.

Close it.

I’m very up to date on sPvP. What’s ridiculous is just to state that a class is overpowered without giving any reasons as to why. I only do sPvP/wvw roaming.

Instead of listing nerf suggestions without any rationalization, why don’t you state why you think they’re overpowered and the more experienced players can help you to counter them?

ResJudicator.7916:

Relentliss.2170:

The Game Slayer.7632:

glock.6590:

Meh the only thing that is OP with ele is the healing. Its ridiculous that a cele ele can recover from 20% to full….

Let them have protection , might, vigor but nerf the healing . It takes me kittening 5 minutes to kill an ele and I’m a glass thief so yea…

Same problem with engi btw , healing turret needs to be nerfed or a longer cast time.

Shout healing warrior is also aids, way too much sustain.

I’m tiered of fighting cele classes for 10 mins.

So why aren’t you also complaining about guardians? (by the way, 20% to 100% is extremely over-exaggerated)

Guardians actually go from 20% to 100% all the time.

Yeah using their Heal Skill which can be interrupted and is on lengthy CD. DD ele does it using other skills and its a bit ridiculous. Soon as they shift into Water they become a Raid Boss.

Ele is completely OP atm with how much healing it has. I don’t even feel DD Ele is as strong as Staff Ele. I can kind of ignore a DD Ele as its damage is not huge… Staff Ele (unless its a zerker) is just as tanky and doing strong damage to a massive area. I can’t ignore them.

The person’s comment on Stats is 100% correct. Like thief, Ele has such low health that unless its OP in other areas it can not survive to be effective. Same with Necro but in reverse: if they ever improved their trait system they would be massively OP because of how much health they have.

Guardians don’t go to full from their heal skill. They go to full from altruistic healing and proper positioning for their skills.

The main difference in survivability between bunker ele (which is what 00266 is set up as) and bunker guard is that the ele relies more on healing while the guard relies more on blocks and CC. The bunker guardian’s defensive skills tend to scale better in group fights, which is why bunker guard is better at holding a node vs an outnumbered fight or against focus fire in a team fight. On the other hand, the ele can put out more pressure which is why they come out ahead in small-scale fights.

Oh. Kinda just sounds like bunker guardians are better at group fighting, while bunker eles do better at single node holding.
Yep. Nerf. Guardian needs to be able to be better than ele at everything. /sarcasm

Relentliss.2170:

The Game Slayer.7632:

glock.6590:

Meh the only thing that is OP with ele is the healing. Its ridiculous that a cele ele can recover from 20% to full….

Let them have protection , might, vigor but nerf the healing . It takes me kittening 5 minutes to kill an ele and I’m a glass thief so yea…

Same problem with engi btw , healing turret needs to be nerfed or a longer cast time.

Shout healing warrior is also aids, way too much sustain.

I’m tiered of fighting cele classes for 10 mins.

So why aren’t you also complaining about guardians? (by the way, 20% to 100% is extremely over-exaggerated)

Guardians actually go from 20% to 100% all the time.

Yeah using their Heal Skill which can be interrupted and is on lengthy CD. DD ele does it using other skills and its a bit ridiculous. Soon as they shift into Water they become a Raid Boss.

Ele is completely OP atm with how much healing it has. I don’t even feel DD Ele is as strong as Staff Ele. I can kind of ignore a DD Ele as its damage is not huge… Staff Ele (unless its a zerker) is just as tanky and doing strong damage to a massive area. I can’t ignore them.

The person’s comment on Stats is 100% correct. Like thief, Ele has such low health that unless its OP in other areas it can not survive to be effective. Same with Necro but in reverse: if they ever improved their trait system they would be massively OP because of how much health they have.

Sorry, have you not ran into a full bunker guardian? Are we playing the same game?

You’ve got to be kidding me.

Full bunker guardians go from 5%-100% 4 times over before all of their cool downs are spent.

glock.6590:

Meh the only thing that is OP with ele is the healing. Its ridiculous that a cele ele can recover from 20% to full….

Let them have protection , might, vigor but nerf the healing . It takes me kittening 5 minutes to kill an ele and I’m a glass thief so yea…

Same problem with engi btw , healing turret needs to be nerfed or a longer cast time.

Shout healing warrior is also aids, way too much sustain.

I’m tiered of fighting cele classes for 10 mins.

So why aren’t you also complaining about guardians? (by the way, 20% to 100% is extremely over-exaggerated)

Guardians actually go from 20% to 100% all the time.

Why do you think ele is overpowered to begin with? You are just giving random nerf suggestions with no reasoning.