Guild Wars 2

Linguistically Inept.6583:

… can get stability for 3s every 6s if you want it >.>

Gtfo out 3 seconds?!!? no way! thats like… 3 whole seconds!!! in a trait line that is lame as hell! YES sir! i will do that! thanks >.>

GUYS… What if… We had a grandmaster trait.. that GAVE US STABILITY WHILE ABOVE 90% HP!?!?!?!?

no no that would be insanity. XD

kitten this game

they added dumbfire to shut necros up. A quick solution which they already realized they would probably nerf later on. So they now are scraping off all accesss damage anywhere they can find it, making necros even more squishy (yes i said squishy) and ultimately throwing them back in the garbage.

I’ve been looking at all other classes in-depth and including past patches, bug fixes, and overall attention. All other professions have everything that than break a necro. Every other profession can easily handle a necro even against dumbfire/terror builds. Condition removal is at it all time best. Thieves have condition cleansing like a psudo guardian as well as ele’s. They’re giving the 90% anti-condition gm trait to mesmers next patch. Anet is quite comfortable with making the necro’s the “pve fodder” for pvp.

Hear me now my poor friends: Necro’s are big slabs of meat that are there for all other professions to successfully use their fancy mechanics on. They are like walking pillars of health to stun, blind, kitten on, knockback, knockdown, grapple, slow, and about anything else they can think of.

The thing is, if the upside to that is us having a bunch of health why cant they see that if we pour everything into health we do no other support or utility the way other professions can. If we pour everything into offense we cant do as much damage as other professions. If we get knocked down knocked back, knocked up, knocked forward, stunned, crippled, blinded, what good is the health? What good is health in spvp where there are obstacles, hindering terrain, so many things that are critical to us being remotely viable.

Our lack of everything besides health is almost becoming a dead joke. Like it was funny for a while but can u fix it now? An attrition class with no survivability. It’s almost so obnoxiously in our faces that necro’s are just bad lol. They make no sense. They have so many bugs its like the class is a community patch. Like take Lich form for example.. And i LOVE lich form. I had recently played a game where i entered lich form and an ele just waited, blowing all their evades, blocks, etkittenil I was properly smashed, knocked down, stunned, and utterly useless. And wats even more frustrating than anything is the Luch’s 1 still bugs out when people get too close to you LOL u dont even get a shot in!

What is going on? I don’t know. I’ve become that SUPER casual player who comes on for the lols. I can’t get too into it when my favorite profession is treated so wrong. I mean granted I didn’t make the game and I sure as hell didn’t ask for any of it. It’s just a real bummer. A real let-down.

The average player will now run MM for the vamp specs. Dumbfire/ terror will soon be a thing of the past. MM will probably get smacked down to nerf zone also just because they’ll find a particular profession is having trouble against it. But that’s why I just hotjoin with troll builds cuz its lolworthy.

No no no u guys got it all wrong. We are not suppose to have any defense besides standard attributes like health and armor. Not only are we supposed to get cc’d to no end we are also supposed to suffer full crits from anything and endulge in a more useless profession mechanic.

Besides we are the ones who are meant to be the warriors punching bag; since they are getting a nerf that same patch to their crit on stuns we of course need to get nerfed to make up for that.

Anyways, I don’t consider DS as a reliable source of anything except a fear and a bit more heath. If you run vamp-anything DS is like a foreign mechanic to the class. If you don’t run conditions DS is just some bonus health. All it’s been imo.

yes necros have no mobility, stability, invuln, blocks etc.. no cleave as said above (our utilities are our main source of aoe), no real group support, no real access to fury or vigor.. our class mechanic, DS, is the only class mechanic that actually denies access to skills (almost like if mesmers had all their skills removed to use any of their shatters, including a cooldown on your skills when leaving that state)… and so on.

But if you’ve always just liked playing a necro in any game that offers that archetype then go for it XD. It is quite obviously the worst profession in this game hands down. Good luck though if you choose to stay with it. If the theme isnt such a bother then I would just say roll an engi who are just continuously served buffs to no end like the really hungry overweight spoiled child. XD I mean you really can’t go wrong with a mesmer or guardian etc.

If you really want to see how “super amazing” a necro is, roll a warrior and find a stunlock/stability build. Find a necro and take out all your anger lol Hahah. Don’t worry about his heath pool thats all he has to defend himself. Actually its far more amusing and worthwhile instead of it being a short-lived pounding. Have fun just bonk them around like beanbags XD

After you do that.. then make your final decision ^_-

This is a fun hotjoin build that focuses on power, condition duration, tankyness and aoe nukes. I changed this build a bit after looking at a more recent death nova thread and adapted some of its ideas.

P M/O – Staff (doom)
S M/O – Dagger (force) / Warhorn (doom)
Soldier Amulet / Full Runes of the Lich

Utilities: Well of Blood — Well of Power — Bone Minion — Shadow Fiend — Lich Form

Traits
Spite – 20 (I, IX)
Curses – 0
Death – 30 (II, VIII, XI)
Blood – 20 (II, VII)
Soul – 0

Revised version I decided to stick with the Soldiers amulet and warhorn off hand. It still has good sustain but is much more an aoe nuker like it should. I also changed adept Death trait to II (retaliation on heal). Also shadow fiend is probably a far more compatable choice for its recharge. It’s also better fitting in a rotation if you summon your minions first then lich form to trigger their death nova.

thats a rock/paper/scissors type game for you.

Guardians beat warriors.. Warriors beat necros… Necros beat thieves… etc

We don’t need no balance fixes… It’s ride the op train as hard as u can lol
Balance is for competition and things like that we don’t need it in this game XD

The Mark of Horror is listed as a Minion skill in-game and does show under its specs a decrease in recharge to 20 seconds while traited in Minion Master (Minion recharge reduction by 20%)

But when you actually use the skill it keeps its original recharge rate of 24 seconds. So basically the minion master trait is not affecting the Lich Form 4 like I would assume it should.

all you have to realize is Necros are not made to solo roam. And are not made to move around alot or have any defense besides a large health pool. Meaning you not only are unable to run from anyone but when you are caught you are kept caught.

This means that the design of the necro is to walk (not run or anything) into a group of enemies and pop all your skills and hope for the best. No maneuverability you are now a pillar of meat pumping out aoe or whatever and hoping nobody notices you.

This was the design. Why? I have no clue. But there it is. Like, you plop down a bunch of wells and if you get knocked out of it… you’re pretty much screwed cuz you cant defend getting pushed out. Professions can easily leave your wells if you pull them in.. but if we get knocked out.. gg. XD

But the dead cant complain. XD

thats exactly my point is forcing builds. Obviously if you dont run any kind of stability on a warrior you are pretty much taking a chance to say the least and is less viable. The idea here is balance across the board.

The idea of the holy trinity was supposed to be less distinguished in this game but I have a solid feeling they are pulling that punch entirely an trying to cater to people who cant think outside that format. To have a “job”. (“im gonna cast this on class A all day and thats because i am class B whilst that class is being protected by class C” and so forth)

But since its not only those people they are catering to they are also trying to enter into the pro gaming scene which is all about rock paper scissors. You see it most prominently in LoL and I think thats their goal.

So to lessen the variety and give classifications and “jobs” to certain classes not only players but viewers will have an easier understanding like football. So thats my story and im sticking to it lol

just bothers me is all. So okay.. we suck against stun warriors (or just hard cc) and we cant do anything about it really so now we are like robots performing the protocol and watnot. lol

I’ve already said that a dumbfire/terror build is the exception to condition stacking of which I and many of yourselves have said will most likely be getting (directly or indirectly) nerfed very soon. So for me any dumbfire/terror counter point isn’t valid. And besides why be forced to play that way?

And my main point is there seems to be this rock-paper-scissors type of class system. Necro’s are weak against CC sooooo who has the must cc? .. warriors. So warriors beats necros.. What are warriors weak against? Well who has the mosyt stun breakers? Class X.. and what is class X weak against? Class Z. ect.

Ranger: healing spring cures conditions on a 30 second cd
Thief: signet of agility cures conditions on a 30 second cd
Ele: Cleansing fire cures 3 conditions on a 40 second cd
Mesmer: Phantasmal disenchanter cures conditions on a 20 second cd.
Engi: Elixer C cures conditions on a 40/30 second cd. (even flipping to boons)
Guardian: Smite condition cures on a 20 second cd.

I didnt really have to say anything for guardian. All these utilities are the ones that recharge the fastest but every prof has more than 1 condition removal mechanic. This is also aside from their stability, blocks, invulnerability, etc.

My question is… Who is weak against conditions? Necro’s are obviously week vs stuns and and hard cc, so who is gonna take the kitten vs all the conditions and just have little to no option of guarding against it? All other classes not only have decent condition removal but also have stun-breakers and stability (lasting more than 3 seconds…).

Is it because no other class does as much damage as necro’s? Doubtful. I don’t believe that for one second. Over time? Not really unless you are running the OP dumbfire build which I can only assume is getting nerfed pretty soon. But that IMO is just considered burst not attrition.

SO whats the deal? Wheres the proffession thats just junk when conditions start to get slapped on them (outisde of terror bs). And even then they have a chance. I don’t know why but it seems so mismanaged and unbalanced. Like “only 2 days left till new patch release we all done.. oh wait forgot necro’s. Blow them up with more conditions we’ll just nerf em next time… okay back to business”

lol idk man. Just seems dodgy as hell. I really don’t get it. So either we are forced to take a stomping to the face vs chain stuns or we just completely OP like every other necro and ugh..

where’s our 30 second stun breaker? lol
I don’t even want stability now. That’s too much to ask for i see that now. Just a 30 second stun breaker yo. All it is. But meh i don’t even know why I spend so much time. GG yalls i still love ya. still love necros just gotta take that beating when the stun come rolling in.

Advent.6193:

The problem here is, you’re asking for something ANet’s guys have said is not getting added to Necros.

Well of course they would put their foot down on something that fractures an entire class but when it comes to adhering to their “hardcore” crybabies about endgame content they didn’t think twice about debunking their whole “Yeah, this game IS ALL endgame. Meaning there is no real endgame.”

That shows they are not interested in how the game works but how it will generate income. Which is fine and reasonable for developers to do but just don’t pretend like your game is sooooo different and a “game made by gamers for gamers”… when it’s not. It’s concept was clearly too unique for even them to handle and making obvious needed changes to certain classes is not their primary concern.

You could say “hey don’t go being mean to devs who put their heart and soul into this game and blahhhh” They do it to get paid. They do it generate profit for the ones who have rights to it. I’m not interested in games that market them as this sense of “breakthrough”, “next-level”, “new class” of game when it’s all just a salesman’s pitch to generate a playerbase.

It’s almost like i feel duped into having gotten this game sometimes lol. They are so quick to alter the fundamental concepts that made this game so interesting but say they won’t change certain mechanics about a profession because it would stray from the core role they see them as. -_- Really?? That’s why you’re not going to fix anything? Stray a little, please.. I still don’t understand how surviving longer in a fight conflicts with the role of attrition.. I still don’t get it lol.

If only 1 person focuses a necro, that necro is dead in the water unless the necro is playing the previously stated duhmmfireterror slop and enter in a condition war, which is just a ridiculously uninteresting form of pvp btw. There is no counter play… none. You are forcing necros to play a certain way not opening avenues for builds.

The way it is set up you are giving the necro’s only viable role a burst role………. LOL that is what this class is. It is a burst caster. Whyyy is there so much backwards thinking on this. You are saying that “well if the necro survives longer he will kill people so we have to completely kitten his survivability so that other classes have a chance” which turns out isnt giving them a chance it’s giving them a kill and is also saying You Made A Broken Class.

Why do i want to play a class that takes too long to kill anyone which is irrelevant since the class has no reliable survivability to get me there? WTF is GOING ON!? So now they just said “we don’t want to really look at necro’s playstyle or mechanics we are just going to add another condition and call it a day”. Now ITS A BURST CLASS lol

I don’t see how people are missing the purse insanity of this logic. They want it to remain an attrition class, they’ve “put their foot down” about it but have countered that logic ALREADY! It’s a burst class! Nobody wants to get pounded in the face all day and not be able to do anything about it. Thanks for the new stun-breakers they have fixed everything. That’s why people run dumbfireterror builds because now they feel that their necros can win an attrition fight -_- (sarcasm) No. It’s because they want to fear-lock their opponents (who btw will have more escapes than you do)

It’s all a mess. But at least there is a Late Game!! Yay! Go grind my friends… Go grind. FLY-FLY! Off to the grind fest with you. XD

omgggg anything but a torch or 1h weapon for the luv of gawd. I don’t want another offhand pls. Just no. lol.

Any 2h weapon. And for the comments who say “necro’s aren’t deathkngihts” make very little sense. A deathknight is sooooooooo awesome and has such an unquestionable relation to necromancy it’s silly to say otherwise. There were deathknights before WoW sry to burst your bubble. I hate it when people try so hard to stick to some form of what THEY think is a traditional necromancer or whatever else.

Open your mind? If you don’t want to play as a kitten death knight then u dont have to. Necro’s have scepter, focus, staff, etc blah blah. If you want ANOTHER off-hand condition spammer I don’t know what to say for this community. lol

Pls… A 2h weapon. pls…

I havent played in a while. So VS a war with a near full-circle stun chain is utterly annoying. Can’t dodge. Can’t do anything. No stability means it just takes them longer to pound on me until im dead. So for starters, what can you do to combat that? Other than spending 30 points in a trait line I find not so attractive unless I want to be some bunker which seems to be their only role in that case.

Second question is a general one. Has this game really tuned into some rock paper scissors class type of game? If no then pls let me know.

My final question is for any dev who might read this. Why is there no stability on an attrition class? A class who’s only chance of winning a battle is over a longer period of time should have access to surviving…. longer. Not get knocked down a tremendous amount of times and not even building up your DS because you can’t even land a blow…

Last time i checked this “attrition class” was dealing burst condition damage -_- I really hate to nag the people who make this stuff but it’s really freaking absurdly confusing when the answers seem so simple. Idk why necros have terrible lack of mobility and stability and are not really a threat to anyone who can stunlock you into submission.

so.. answer or not im gonna go play.. another game lol

For starters it appears that invisibility has no counters. But just to reply to some of the other comments…

style.6173:

@OP.

First you can’t really compare PvP and WvW. Since this is a PvP forum, I’ll comment on that. Stealth isn’t really a problem in PvP. Sure it can be used to run away, but who cares? That means if you are holding into a node or trying to capture a node, you will win. That’s a good thing.

If you want to complain about thieves, complain about S/D. That’s the total OP spec at the moment. There is very little stealth there.

comparing to

FirstInfantry.2795:

Ill start by simply posting the link to a video that completely changed my playstyle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq8BJrmrUaU —--how to counter theives tutorial:)

Your interrupts and daze will stop a theif or any class from being able to use their skills for a second or two, since there were 6 of you that was the first mistake you all failed to do a theif cant stealth when they are dazed. Furthermore if they are stunned while dazed they are squishy enough that it would be enough to kill them right there. In a 1 vs 1 you will find perma stealth not very difficult just more or less time consuming.

My advice on stealth especially theives and mesmers (as other classes can stealth) starts by having invulnerable skills,interruptions, daze, stun as well as the use of maximizing healing and leaps in your build, utilities and traits. Ill explain in more detail. All class builds exception of mesmer and theif should have these equipped into their build,traits,utilities otherwise goodluck to you. to Your leaps are to create seperation…

So.. Are you running away from thieves or are you standing your ground? If you are standing your ground.. in some peoples view is an easier target like a “punching bag” as somebody put it. But Style is saying that standing your ground will cause them to run away. Even if in tpvp this almost makes sense to a degree since they cant capture while stealth (but somehow may stomp while stealth durr) just saying it and looking at what you are saying doesn’t. Thieves are essentially the opportunist class, biding time to strike at the best time and deal loads of burst to a single enemy. So what you are saying is that thieves cant kill people and instead run away or stealth.

My point is that this is just not true. Stealth is not just useful for running away as i explained in my OP. They may heal, regain initiative, re-position themselves which happens to matter to thieves, OR run away. They usually stay and fight in my experience unless completely outnumbered and even then they don’t have to. Why run when nobody can see you?

I will agree, as would anyone, that spvp thieves are not as compromising as wvw. But that doesn’t mean that invisibility at the rate is is given to thieves is unfair and unchallenged. If you have to Daze and kill them within a window of 3 seconds then good luck. If daze and stun where handed out to professions just as generously as invisibility is to thieves then yeah np. But it’s not.

So overall, in the comparison I agree to a fundamental degree and disagree to the sorta big-picture.

Stealth is one of the two primary thief survival mechanisms, the other being evasion (either direct or via shadowstepping). Aside from these, they have very little survivability, so it is the moments between these that must be capitalized upon. Watch for the shadowsteps, and immobilize when it seems they can’t get away. Save your stuns for when they are about to stealth away (typically at around 50% health), and burst them down when you KNOW they’re gonna be locked down.

The thing I am aggravated with is that thieves should not have this sorta epic volume of survival tools to the point where there is almost no real threat to their playstyle. They can easily go in and out (if you cant kill them in within a window of 3 seconds meaning you also should be stunning / dazing them as they are right next to you else your wasting 1-2 seconds closing the gap) and be unafraid of being killed.

Warriors have high threat to their gameplay. Probably THE central example of high risk high reward (only there is no high reward since warriors are not very good). They go in at a critical moment and either win big or die. So.. essentially.. Thieves are just 1000000x better than warriors because they don’t even have to take damage.

And I’m really disliking the whole “well if it isnt for this classes permanent state of invulnerability that can never be removed… they have very little survivability.” Duh. And even while other classes may have high regen or high armor or may block in incoming attack… you can still see them. You can still target them and continue to do things to them. Invisibility is almost better than invulnerability imo. Just sayin.

So.. yeah. Whatever lol. People are gonna get mad at what I have to say. But clearly there is a balance issue when thieves and almost mesmers can invis whenever they dont want to die. They also have some of the best dodge traits in the game as well.

So.. Whats the counter to perma stealth? How do u fight that? Even, or even especially, in WvW they are just too safe. How is the “squishiest” class in the game THE safest class to play. Like.. I dont know. There’s no sense of risk while there are no counters that i can see. Aoe? Nah. They just shadowstep out of that crap. Or dodge. Hurt too much? Go invis and heal and go right back.

I was in a WvW and this dude was vs like 6 of us. Whenever he went invis we just stood there like “durr.. welp. Good for him.” I don’t know of any hard counters since im relatively new. Maybe somebody can enlighten me since im such a noob scrub.

Here is an idea:

Bloodthirst – Siphoning health is 40% more effective and 80% more against bleeding foes.

So the change is decreasing the base bonus percent and adding the extra bit of siphoning versus bleeding enemies. This would make Dagger/Dagger and quickening thirst more appealing for necros.

That’s all :P

Edit: ok actually i’ll add more :P

You could say

Boodthirst – Siphoning health is 40% more effective and even more against bleeding foes.

The “even more” bit could be basing the bonus percent off the number of bleed stacks the enemy has. So for an example percent, say like 5% per bleed stack and only up to a maximum of 50% percent (only counting 10 stacks of bleed)

Greyzz.2681:

TheDevice.2751:

So… i’m guessing no?

Its not even that complicated. Maybe I used too many big words.

1. It’s not a bag slot.
2. Its an AI who will bring you a weapon during combat.
3. Non-customized appearance. Possibly looking better in accordance with your level. (people don’t complain about Fiery Greatsword on ele)
4. It’s just a bunch of ideas.

For some reason I am thinking “big words” was not the problem, and your idea is actually pretty complicated to test, implement, balance rework and tweak for something most people wont even use.

Look at rampage, it is basically a “third weapon” and no one picks that, just saying.

Imo.. It’s not complicated at all because I know how it works (im my head). So that’s, I’m sure, the problem.

Explaining the actual mechanics that go behind the actions is complex. Such as explaining the code written to create the effects.

It’s really not that complicated on the surface. If it was indeed a skill it wouldn’t need so much explanation because it would already be devised and implemented.

In essence its like I said. You have an AI who gives you a weapon on demand. The specifics behind it is somewhat trivial. I mainly brought all of that out to give a clearer idea of how it would look and play-out.

But in any case, It’s obviously not a popular idea. And it’s not a proposal. It’s just an idea.

ah more good ones

So it would respond like other non-underwater utilities. Going on cooldown if that utility slot was used underwater.

So the weapon hand thing could be done in numerous ways. I couldn’t really say what would fit perfectly and fair. 2 weapons could be selected as i said. If you fat-finger it then u fat-finger it. That’s kinda the risk with fat-fingers…. all skills face that risk.

The weapon order 1-5 would also be a thing to consider. Numerous ways to do it.

And yes, its not a swap so its unaffected

Oh and for the 2-hander question you could possibly even go a step further into complication lol and select 2 weapons instead of just 1. The first one being main hand.

Greyzz.2681:

TheDevice.2751:

So… i’m guessing no?

Its not even that complicated. Maybe I used too many big words.

1. It’s not a bag slot.
2. Its an AI who will bring you a weapon during combat.
3. Non-customized appearance. Possibly looking better in accordance with your level. (people don’t complain about Fiery Greatsword on ele)
4. It’s just a bunch of ideas.

Maybe you are right, maybe it can be implemented easy, how does it work in the following situations?

With options 1-5? are you able to pick an offhand weapon? Say you are using a sword in offhand (hard to believe i know) and you now want a shield? Can you pick that? What if you like your offhand sword and now want a main-hand mace?

What if you are using a 2hander but now you want to use a axe and a mace?

What if you are under water? do you get to pick other classes weapons like trident?

Oh good questions.

Well, the only idea I had for that was it would only replace main hand. And as for underwater it would be a non-underwater elite (like few other AI utilities)

So… i’m guessing no?

Its not even that complicated. Maybe I used too many big words.

1. It’s not a bag slot.
2. Its an AI who will bring you a weapon during combat.
3. Non-customized appearance. Possibly looking better in accordance with your level. (people don’t complain about Fiery Greatsword on ele)
4. It’s just a bunch of ideas.

AI Squire. Elite skill concept.

So I’ve read some posts here and there on the access to 3 weapon slots. And I wanted to bring that idea to a plausible means. The basic idea behind this Elite skill is as follows:

The squire would be an elite skill which summons an armored fighter. The squire would remain idle and passive, having high defensive stats, only attacking enemies in a short vicinity of itself and follows the warrior at a safe distance. A passive buff will be granted to all allies in a much higher aoe such as might or bonus to armor.

The main function of the squire is allowing the warrior to access 1 out of 5 weapons once reactivating the elite, the squires activated ability. The ability would call the squire (“Squire!”) altering you current weapon skill set (1-5) once the squire reaches you. 1-5 will become different weapon options for a short time. For example: (1) Sword, (2) Axe, (3) Mace, (4) Hammer, (5) Greatsword. Activating that skill will equip that weapon and change the weapon skills accordingly.

Furthermore, to ensure a sense of true variety and usefulness of the squire’s active ability, the weapons available for selection (1-5 once the squire is called) will be weapons other than your original set of weapons.

Example:
Your main weapon slot is Hammer and your secondary weapon slot is Mace / Shield. You use the active ability of the squire “Squire!”; he runs to you and your weapon skill set becomes (1) Sword, (2) Axe, (3) Greatsword, (4) Rifle, (5) Longbow. You select one of these options and equip that weapon (possibly gaining a short boon).

When you swap weapons from the set you gained from the squire both of your weapon sets will revert back to its original sets.

To more detail: The weapons would of course not have any enhancements or anything like a normal weapon. Their base damage would scale based on level and could possibly gain the same stat bonuses as the (real) weapon it replaced.

So tell me what you guys think.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Alright, here’s a new variation of one of my Hybrid builds:

Lictor
30/20/0/20/0
V, VIII, XI, IV, IX, III, VIII
6 Runes of the Elementalist
Carrion Amulet <- Berserker’s Jewel
Scepter (Sigil of Air) Dagger (Sigil of Geomancy/Smoldering)
Axe/Dagger (Sigil of Air) Focus (Sigil of Geomancy/Smoldering)
Consume Conditions, Well of Suffering/Spectral Wall, Well of Corruption, Corrupt Boon/Spectral Walk, Lich/Plague Form

tPvP tested. Best used in an Assault team. Strongly aided by Thieves, namely Venom Share Thieves, and Shatter Mesmers. Weak against Meditation Guardians.

might have to try this one out. wells ftw

LezardValeth.9453:

As happy as I would be with a new weapon for necromancer, and while your ideas are actually really creative and interesting, I do NOT want the weapon to be dependent on jagged horrors.

Thanks for the props and I understand. Maybe i’ll make a Jagged Horror-free greatsword concept :P

So I updated the hammer’s 3 and 4. The previous ideas felt kind of clunky.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Minas Adun.6819:

I, for one, would put as much support as I could behind a hammer necro, if, as suggested, it includes golf-swing-punting jagged horrors at enemies.

About the suggested hammer #5 – if the skill calls for a five-second channel to gain might and then converts it all to regeneration at the end, wouldn’t this be the same as just stacking regeneration during the channel? Or would the active skill skip the conversion, allowing for gratuitous might stacking in lieu of regeneration?

The latter. I wasn’t entirely sure how to word it to be more clear and keep it short. The activation would deny the regeneration conversion.

((Originally Posted Under Suggestions))
But I wanted some feedback direct from the Necro Community

The main subject here is the Jagged Horror which I found has been a fairly overlooked aspect of the necromancer. I decided to come-up with a few more ways to implement the use of their existence by adding a new weapon (hammer) and altering some of the Necromancers traits and abilities themselves. Hopefully this can gravitate to other minds and inspire a deeper look into the relevancy of these little guys. Hope you enjoy.

Here is the Jagged Horror for use of reference.

Necromancer Skill Concepts:

Utility

• Flesh Golem / Charge: Command your flesh golem to charge a foe. All Jagged Horrors caught in it’s path explode dealing damage.

• Signet of Undeath: Passive: Generates 1% life force per 3 seconds while in combat. Also creates one Jagged Horror every 50% LF gained (30s ICD).
  / Active: Now a channel cast

Traits

Death Magic

• Adept / Ritual of Summoning: Wells summon a Jagged Horror when cast.

• Master (from Adept)/ Dark Armor: Gain 400 toughness and 2 seconds stability while channeling. (not JH specific but still nice and relevant to the Hammer concept below)

Blood Magic

• Adept / Transfusion: Life Transfer heals nearby allies. You gain health whenever one of your minions die.

Weapon

Hammer (New)

1. Body Smite: A bunting strike dealing damage. Gain 3% Lifeforce.
   / Body Breaker: An upward strike causing damage. Gain 4% Lifeforce.
   / Body Slayer: An arcing strike downward dealing damage. Deals bonus damage to downed enemies. Gain 5% Lifeforce.
2. Soul Slug: Channel for 3 seconds drawing your Jagged Horrors to you. Reactivate to launch spectral energy at your enemy with an upward swing. Will launch any Jagged Horror (max 3) caught within the swing at your foe dealing bonus damage (adds Projectile Finisher).
3. Bone Shaker: Slam the ground, crippling nearby foes. Cripple duration is increased for each condition on them. (Blast Finisher)
4. Death Forge: Remove up to 2 conditions and summon a Jagged Horror. The Jagged Horror will cause those conditions on its next attack.
5. Call of Power: Channel for 3 seconds and gain regeneration while sacrificing your Jagged Horrors. Gain bonus regeneration and 2% lifeforce for each JH sacrificed.
   / Blood Quake: Reactivate: Slam the ground, convert all your regeneration into might and cause damage and bleeding to nearby foes.

I hate when at the end of the OP post, they say “discuss” D8<

lol anyways… discuss

Hello everyone. I don’t have super amazing experience in game development but I’ve created a few concepts in my day. Nothing pleases me more than to take a look at some ideas and create new possibilities. I’ve stated in a few posts that though the Necromancer is my favorite profession, it’s skills and abilities can be seen as a bit bland. It’s simplicity is attractive but some skills and abilities seem out of place or unimportant. The main subject of interest to me is the Jagged Horror which spawned (pun) a few interesting creations for play in my head. I continued formulating more ways to implement the use of their existence by adding a new weapon (hammer) and altering some of the Necromancers traits and abilities themselves. Hopefully this can gravitate to other minds and inspire a deeper look into the relevancy of these little guys. Hope you enjoy.

Here is the Jagged Horror for use of reference.

Necromancer Skill Concepts:

Utility

• Flesh Golem / Charge: Command your flesh golem to charge a foe. All Jagged Horrors caught in it’s path explode dealing damage.

• Signet of Undeath: Passive: Generates life force while in combat and one Jagged Horror every 120 seconds.

Traits

Death Magic

• Adept / Ritual of Summoning: Wells summon a Jagged Horror when cast. 60-second cooldown.
  (this seems like a very sensible trait concept but conflicts with Ritual of Protection.)

• Master (from Adept)/ Dark Armor: Gain 400 toughness and stability while channeling. (not JH specific but still nice and relevant to the Hammer concept below)

Blood Magic

• Adept / Transfusion: Life Transfer heals nearby allies. You gain health whenever one of your minions die.

Weapon

Hammer (New)

1. Body Smash: Deals Damage with a bunting strike. Gain 5% Lifeforce.
   / Body Smite: Deals Damage with a downward strike. Gain 8% Lifeforce.
   / Body Slayer: An arcing strike dealing damage and dazing foes for 1 second. Deals bonus damage to downed enemies.
2. Soul Slug: Channel for 3 seconds drawing your Jagged Horrors to you. Reactivate to launch spectral energy at your enemy with an upward swing. Will launch any Jagged Horror caught within the swing at your foe dealing bonus damage. (adds Combo Projectile to its effect)
3. Pain Aggressor: Slam the ground, stunning nearby foes. Stun duration is increased for each condition on them.
4. Death Forge: Remove up to 2 conditions and summon a Jagged Horror. The Jagged Horror will cause those conditions on its next attack.
5. Call of Power: Channel for 5 seconds and gain might while sacrificing nearby Jagged Horrors adding bonus might for each JH sacrificed. Turn all might stacks into regeneration when channel completes.
   / Blood Quake: Reactivate and slam the ground damaging and bleeding nearby foes.

lull how did this thread turn into some meta philosophy study/debate. I mean if Altrol thinks his builds would do better than what most meta gamers use then.. its a free country/internet. Whats the problem?

I think its a nice assortment of builds. I think in the end its up to the player to find what works for them. The builds I like to think of as guides. They have a job and provide the as much efficiency as altrol and collaborators could surmise.

As far as do these builds work better than the ones used in the current meta? There’s no real proof of that but its possible. So why all the aggravation?

I’m sure the overall point most of BoC is making is if these builds are not currently being used in the current meta than they are not meta builds. But in layman’s terms, others could describe meta as being the most efficient form of achieving victory. The latter description is by no means accurate to its definition, but its easy to relate it to its meaning.

Recent…. Video was posted on july 10th. So it stands to reason it was recorded somewhat recently. And yes while warriors won’t have that much damage in sPvP (noone will) it doesn’t mean they don’t do crazy hard damage. It is prolly harder to land than most others. But it doesn’t mean that devs completely favor mesmers. Have you seen necros lately or burst S/d eles?

The vid is irrelevant. That’s the point. It has no relevance in this conversation. WvW is not meant to be balanced. There is major imbalance. And that’s not what im discussing. I’m focusing on sPvP. So.. that video doesn’t say anything.

I main necro and I can tell you that they will be getting nerfed soon. That’s neither here nor there.

And to godmoney nothing you’ve said has any real validity. You just said that it’s the spvp maps fault. IDK how that’s possible. I really don’t. I actually don’t get what you’re saying at all. I’m sorry.

But then again they did buff necros last patch (first real balance buffs since release) so they must obviously be Anets favorite. My bad. I’m not sure I can converse with you on this topic since you’re really not saying anything. Except mocking me (very child-like btw).

Godmoney.2048:

TheDevice.2751:

Godmoney.2048:

I remember when I used to go to forums to complain about classes like this.

The entire notion that game devs “favor” a particular class is ludicrous, childish and not very thoughtful.

The Dev’s want money, money means the game needs to be fairly balanced. The dev’s wanting money and jobs know they must keep the game fairly balanced to the best of their abilities. That’s how it works in real life where people have mortgages and insurance bills to cover every month. You think it’s cheap living in Seattle? You know a mortgage payment is usually 3000$ a month? What, you think the devs are all 20 year olds living at college? You think they would purposely unbalance the game and risk killing their livelihoods because they “herpa kitten , I really like mesmer!”

Give me a break. You probably also think military spending is about “creating democracy” and not making military contractors rich right?

Common sense is free.

I got a real kick out of this reply i must say. Mostly because the overall theme is common sense. Allowing a more popular class to have certain perks IS a method of making money. It’s like with anything; make X better since more people like it. That’s marketing. I think its not fair to say what i said was childish or not very thoughtful; since I can explain, and have for the most part, all complaints I made.

You bring up mortgage… WTF?

Military spending? Are you reading what you write?

And when there are post after post on how underwhelming and unattended-to warriors are for months, It is a very plausible reaction to think that some professions are not cared for as much as others. Warriors have not only been left in the dust but have been kitten on patch after patch. Necro’s JUST got an up-to-par patch… since release. If these guys where sweating too hard as you described about real balance these things AT THE VERY LEAST would warrant responses from the devs.

You somehow, with all your common sense ranting, have completely thrown it out of the window. It’s free man. I’ll share some with you. YES the devs are interested in money. Money > Balance. In fact money takes precedence over any content concerning the game. If 30% of their playerbase plays a mesmer on a consistent basis they will do everything they can not to upset them. If they nerf too hard they risk players crying and leaving cuz their favorite class is not the strongest anymore.

In a post on elementalists a few weeks ago some guy said he was leaving the game because his class was getting too many nerfs which of course resulted in replies agreeing and claiming they are doing the same. This is the truth.

But really I don’t care. It’s just a freaking game kitten . I spelled out some very clear complaints on how frequent invisibility while passively gaining avenues of DPS has no hard counter. Your argument consisted of mortgage bills and government tyranny.

Anyways, glhf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r4E9N50lTs

Here you go! Warriors suck you say!

The fact that you fail to grasp my examples only shows how little you actually use your mind or think objectively.

Let me think. I think the phrase goes like this “l2p” Just because you struggle with playing the game well doesn’t mean everyone else does.

Yeah sure, the devs are going to sink the entire game for some childish notion that they like mesmer more than other classes. LOL gufaw, hahahaha.

If mesmer was as op as you say then that’s all people would play. I see a good mix of all the classes.

ok now provide a warrior vid with a recent build in spvp……

And go to the warrior forums and say that only 1 person (me) is having trouble with this class (as you describe)

glhf

Godmoney.2048:

I remember when I used to go to forums to complain about classes like this.

The entire notion that game devs “favor” a particular class is ludicrous, childish and not very thoughtful.

The Dev’s want money, money means the game needs to be fairly balanced. The dev’s wanting money and jobs know they must keep the game fairly balanced to the best of their abilities. That’s how it works in real life where people have mortgages and insurance bills to cover every month. You think it’s cheap living in Seattle? You know a mortgage payment is usually 3000$ a month? What, you think the devs are all 20 year olds living at college? You think they would purposely unbalance the game and risk killing their livelihoods because they “herpa kitten , I really like mesmer!”

Give me a break. You probably also think military spending is about “creating democracy” and not making military contractors rich right?

Common sense is free.

I got a real kick out of this reply i must say. Mostly because the overall theme is common sense. Allowing a more popular class to have certain perks IS a method of making money. It’s like with anything; make X better since more people like it. That’s marketing. I think its not fair to say what i said was childish or not very thoughtful; since I can explain, and have for the most part, all complaints I made.

You bring up mortgage… WTF?

Military spending? Are you reading what you write?

And when there are post after post on how underwhelming and unattended-to warriors are for months, It is a very plausible reaction to think that some professions are not cared for as much as others. Warriors have not only been left in the dust but have been kitten on patch after patch. Necro’s JUST got an up-to-par patch… since release. If these guys where sweating too hard as you described about real balance these things AT THE VERY LEAST would warrant responses from the devs.

You somehow, with all your common sense ranting, have completely thrown it out of the window. It’s free man. I’ll share some with you. YES the devs are interested in money. Money > Balance. In fact money takes precedence over any content concerning the game. If 30% of their playerbase plays a mesmer on a consistent basis they will do everything they can not to upset them. If they nerf too hard they risk players crying and leaving cuz their favorite class is not the strongest anymore.

In a post on elementalists a few weeks ago some guy said he was leaving the game because his class was getting too many nerfs which of course resulted in replies agreeing and claiming they are doing the same. This is the truth.

But really I don’t care. It’s just a freaking game kitten . I spelled out some very clear complaints on how frequent invisibility while passively gaining avenues of DPS has no hard counter. Your argument consisted of mortgage bills and government tyranny.

Anyways, glhf

OMG here is OP.

I read all your replies. Ty for taking the time to voice your opinions on the matter. And to sum-up the frequent retorts about “play a mesmer and learn to counter”; I have played a mesmer.

Anyways, looking at all the replies a few things stick out.

Dodge: I’d really like to ask how many times you think people can dodge? Dodge the clones dealing damage every 15 secs (not like you cant make more who conveniently take aggro once spawned), dodge the phantoms insane damage output, dodge the incoming weapon attacks and the weapon swaps, more clones btw, invis if you manage to get too close (while the mesmer has probably dodged himself creating more clones to pop), heal?, refresh, and the fun continues….

before I continue I’d really like to share the relevant fact that vs a mesmer is farrrr more work than playing one. (as i’ve said, I play one…) And I do well most times. I’m not a level 47 nor a level 9 im a level 32. So whatever thats worth.

Long cooldowns? Have you looked at the other classes yourselves? Have you only played mesmers and now have some silly belief that they have ungodly cd’s? They really are not that intense folks. And if your only real defense is saying that thieves are worse… then no kitten. Thieves are worse when it comes to stealth. Does that make it less bs? Not imo.

I would for a sec like to refer to this lil quote I found amusing:

looks like u don’t even know the difference between clones and phantasms, as clones don’t deal a great dmg to u

Especially about the part that clones don’t deal a great dmg to you. That was the actually the only funny part. But really funny. I dug it gj mang. Do you know what a shatter mesmer is?

And I guess since im just fuggin tired I’ll end with this: I really don’t care if dev’s nerf mesmers or not. I would rather they didnt imo. The point the OP(me) was making was that there is hardly if any real hard counter to mesmers in-and out, clone popping, CC throwing, DPSing, mobility-having, lil booties. And pls stop with the 3 second invis thing. 4 seconds is the spec and u are aware of that. Bottom line: provide more counters.

lol yes warriors are good in pve… and that’s it. WvW and PvP no.

I think the devs somehow while playing their mesmers or thieves where possibly beaten by a warrior and decided to nerf them even more lol. Warriors are sooooo bad at pvp that is sad. just sad. I laugh at warriors.

The only thing they might bring is conditions. Which is hilarious since warriors are suppose to be the invert of guardians (high dps burst / tanky). And they fail utterly in that arena. They have become some broke attrition class.

If u play pvp pls stick with ranger. Rangers are immortal 1v1 and bring so much more to team comps. If just wanna do well in pve play warrior. Thats really all they’re good for.

Dand.8231:

Erm, double post? Anyway…

i meant to remove the momentum skill since defense traits already do well along those lines. but I accidentally re-posted the edit.

Dand.8231:

Every other class has protection available in some form. Why is it that you feel a heavily armed and armored melee class deserves protection any less than an Ele (light, caster), Engy (med, ranged), Guardian (heavy, melee)?

Well I actually included my reasoning as why they shouldn’t have it. It’s alot like necros lack of stability. And the recent patch shows that Just because they don’t have excessive access to it like the other classes doesn’t mean they cant do well without while adhering to their professions description.

Warriors and Guardians are already so closly related in playstyle that adding just as much access to protection would do less to separate the two. In fact, every class has access to a form of minion except thieves and warriors. Should they get some too? My point is just because its in the game doesnt mean everyone should have it.

I think i would just like to see shorter cooldowns on their stability utilities and more access to immobilize removal.

Warriors are quite dead right now… R.I.P.

They don’t need any form of protection since that actually doesnt fall in line with the warriors core style of play. If you implement protection and all those sustain tweaks/additions, people will only build along that. It would just make everything else the warrior has been sucking at unused.

Anyway, warriors are supposed to have high mobility and crazy burst potential. They are suppose to have high risk with high reward. All they have right now is high risk and less reward than every other class out there.

What they need is real ingenuity towards their structure. Warriors and necros have been the least cared for in terms of originality and personality. When the devs made all the other classes it just seems like they took their time and really thought out of some interesting stuff to make the class unique and go along with its theme.

When described, I imagine the dev’s went along the lines of “crit-heavy skirmishers. they bleed stuff. aaand.. idk.”

What warriors need are more passive effect that remove their main threat which is immobilization. It would seem as if they have plenty but when u have to trait for such counters through majors its not good. First thing, implement immobiliziation removals through minor traits. This i believe is paramount.

For some counter condition stacking:

Stir of Vengeance: Gain might for each condition applied to you.

They can deal damage to you while stealth……

Why on earth is it a good idea to give mesmers stealth? They have clones. So while their clones are dealing damage to you you cannot hit them. You are wasting all your time killing their clones or just running away from them.

This is the definition of Over Powered. It means there is no counter to it in this game. You cant stop a mesmer from doing all the damage he wants while he hides in his safe little stealth.

Anyways glhf.

Well the sad thing is terror not only got a nerf last patch but will take another hit soon. All for dhuumfire… I don’t even dislike the idea It’s just not needed. The fear to spectral wall was the best thing anet thought of for attrition/condition builds. That with the well buffs made alot of things better.

I would like to thank Anet for giving Dhummfire as a sort of present to the necro community and im not really trying to sound ungrateful. In all honesty it just upsets me that so many more necros are showing up just for the bursty condition meta builds. I think Anet intended to be a bit over-the-top with some of the buffs given to necros for the long-term disappointment. It’s not unexpected that soon they will nerf some of their extra buffings to comply with current standards and then the patch-leaching necros will go back to playing their mesmers and whatnot lol.

It would suck if terror is punished for the recent meta condition/burst opness.

Fear dot has pretty much been our strongest condi. Since the new patch im not surprised (via ethereal wall) it can be seen as op now. Though if there needs be a nerf it should be directed towards the damage ratios on Terror. But its a hard thing to decide.

I do like the idea of setting up a meta-based build list. And it looks good so far (not that im an expert). A good resource for the community.

I’ve tried that condition vampire and it was fun and yes very effective.

Good job man.

My SW was on cd. And i did dodge…..

I sometimes just am in complete awe at times when i play this game. So I’m in a hotjoin spvp… I come up to a mesmer (ONLY 1) and i’m hoping to at least stall till my team arrives. Absolutely no exaggeration—- This guys skill rotation had me not able to use one ability………………….. NOT ONE.

I just got tossed around. Waited. Waited. Tried to activate my heal.. dazed.. waited.. waited.. I DID NOT GET TO USE ONE ABILITY

Is this some kind of joke Anet is playing on this class? Why? Why in gods name do we not have stability? Why? Why is it so inconceivable to have stability but burning is? This is not an attrition class. It is not a “in the middle of a fight and taking damage and blah blah blah”

I’ve really just been awoken. This is nonsense. Absolute nonsense. Why don’t the necro’s just be redone so that they only have health. No abilities. No interesting gameplay mechanics. Nothing interesting or useful at all. Just lots of health. So we can run around and take damage. lots and lots of damage. lol who came up with this?

riiiight…

Well, I think the fire is fine. The idea that they are pyromancers is being a bit dramatic. They are not really necromancers so much as they are warlocks now. I find it a bit interesting and think they are trying to develop a warlockish class. Warlocks are just male witches btw (not concerning WoW), and witches were just practitioners of dark arts. They drew upon the elements of nature and did stuff with it. They also used necromancy.

The problem is that they really should just rename the class a Warlock. It would just settle things. When you think of a Necromancer you think of cold, death, bone, dirt, dark, black, evil, etc. Not really fire or even water.

And depending on which mythology or cultural history you are referencing, the elements can mean something entirely different. In the biblical sense fire simply meant Absolute Destruction. It was the last thing you could do to something to remove it from existence.

That being said, it still seems a bit lazy to add it for the purposes of just pleasing the necro community and allowing them to feel more relevant. Imo it can really just be seen that way flat out. I can almost see the devs just saying "give them burning so they will shut up. Now lets see ho we can make mesmers more interesting and unique in their playstyle.)

Overall the implement of fire just to not have to bother with putting any real interest or character/personality to the profession is just fail.

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Andele.1306:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits#Necromancer_traits; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_UzwdXK5CU and for lich http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfE_Xu9H1Bw at 11ish minutes – just from beta 1 to 2, on the old press demo/alpha lich dropped a orb/urn that had around 50k hp (but low armor) and made lich immortal till destroyed (2 was a 3 second 1 minion spawn, 3 the vuln, 4 aura of chill, 5 aura of fear), DS let you absorb life force while in in and upon exiting worked like spectral walks second activation (you ported to where you entered DS).
Also we had pretty much permanent stability, perma retaliation, DS was a stun break and in addition to corruptions there were sacrifices that gave condition like effect for user hp, also like every 4th ability siphoned hp (as seeon on warhorn and staff in TBs video).

Also sweet old 50% damage reduction for 11 seconds on a 60 second cooldown from Sarmor…

We were really OP, that’s a fact. But I don’t get why they had to nerf us so hard when they are talking 24/7 about taking little steps of balance….
I mean DS nerfed, life steal nerfed, Lich nerfed…. why so much? That’s the thing I hate about ArenaNet, they say one thing and they do a totally different thing and don’t fix their mistakes 9 months ahead, so dissapointing.

Agreed. The incredibly slow response to the complete broken-ness of necros is disheartening. They were so fast to nerf yet take ages to bring up to speed. I’m honestly not caring anymore lol. It’s obviously not a pressing matter to them.

It’s really upsetting to me since I had a couple of friends who bought the game not too long ago. They tried all classes and were so disgusted with the obvious favoritism to certain classes they just ditched the game entirely. I used to keep telling them that Anet will fix it all but I just gave up lol.

Balance is just absent. qq

Bas.7406:

he goal is to have them use conditions to prevent other classes from being stronger, and to win battles of attrition. This is not currently where they are at…

Thats all that needs be understood really. I get what they are supposed to be and knowing the devs know thats not what they are atm is good news. :P

Boon stripping and condition removal/ stacking is lacking since there are so many counters. Dealing with conditions is almost a pesky annoyance rather than a real threat especially when all u have to do is roll/dodge lol.

Though i do find it a little disturbing that the devs have constructed solid and easily accessible avenues to counter every possible aspect of a necro with every profession but not the other way around. =/

Jackums.3496:

Rayya.2591:

Jettit.7184:

lets nerf everything…every move a mesmer does gives boons to the enemy…mesmer can only have 1 clone and it takes constant etheral dmg lets remove mantras because theres too much “lock down” ability…staff 1 skill doesnt give conditions anymore…

god this whole thing about mesmers being o kitten tupid please stop showing your ignorance and play a mesmer and figure out how to beat them…hmm lets see theres a few things that mesmers cant deal with because no one traits into a bs cc removal build because its useless…we cant remove conditions well…the only thing we can with is on a ridiculous cd…i have an idea lets learn something for once and figure out that mesmers are only as op as you let them be

if mesmer make his staff rotation corectly, with melandru rune, lemongras , rabid
he will have : 1700 condition damage, 17000 hp /2800 armor / 50 critical chance -65% condition duration
phase retreat – 8 seconds blink
perma vigor -1 dodge /5 seconds
perma retailation -COF
blink /decoy -stun breakers.
He is nearly imposible to kill 1 vs 1, not cause confusion, cause mobility

Have you ever fought a D/D Ele 1v1? How about a BM regen Ranger? Or a bunker Guardian? Maybe a stealth Thief? Almost every profession has a spec that is “nearly impossible” to kill in a 1v1. Ignorance is bliss when you’re complaining about a profession that you simply don’t want to have to put effort in and L2P in order to defeat.

name a necro build that is unbeatable… name a warrior build that is unbeatable…

actually i dont think mesmers, eles, engi’s or any of those ez profs need a nerf. I do however think necro’s and warriors need to get some of the godmode survivability these classes have.

I just can’t believe ele’s find something to complain about.. good grief. Play a necro mang then you’ll have something to cry about. Srsly lol. No offense but ele’s mesmers and engi’s are the dev’s favorite children. They work so hard to keep these profs above the rest and you actually complain lol. No real surprise though.

I can name so many.

1. work with tons of glitches and buggy animations
2. get tossed around like a rag doll vs hard cc
3. get underplayed in tpvp
4. get the least attention from devs or any real balance fixes

the list goes on :P

i’ve said it before and i’ll say it more :P
It really doesnt matter how much life you have if you have no survival boons (invisibility, invulnerability, stability, etc). If you keep getting knocked around, dazed and whatever else like some pinball, you’re health is just for show.