Guild Wars 2

Frenk.5917:

TheDevice.2751:

Khenzy.9348:

As long as Engineers are as weak as they are against conditions, they wont be as OP as you claim them to be.

Elixer C
Toss Elixer C
Cleansing Burst
Drop Andtidote
Tosss Elixer R
Fumigate
Cleaning Formula 409
Transmute
Automated Response

What?

Do you even play engi? Fumigate doesn’t even remove conditions on the user. Did you just linked random skills?

I’d totally love to write a long and exhaustive post on how little you know about engineer (I’m not being rude, it’s just the plain truth) but it would take too much of my time and expert players already know what I would have written.

@Eurantien: yep, you listed the things engineers are good at, but you are ignoring the things engineers suck at. Like removing conditions, and breaking stuns, or gaining stability.

Everytime is the same old story: people making biased assumptions on everything. I don’t know why I’m even posting on the forums, I should just stop and give up on hoping people to show some form of objectivity.

the guy before you already mentioned fumigate and lets hear how much you can come up with that will show exactly how little i know. I’d like to see the lengthy post man

Oh wait.. it just ended at fumigate didn’kitten

Engineers are also the most finely tailored class in the game. They get so much attention its disgusting. It’s like vomitable. They are constantly being touched-up while other classes suffer real problems. Eventually, there will be absolutely nothing an engineer can think of complaining about. The issues engi’s bring up are like little snobby rich kids screaming that their chocolate cake didn’t have sprinkles on it.

I mean honestly, conditions? That’s your major issue? And apparently you can’t run certain clears because they’re just “too difficult” to use. Not only are there clears built in to your class but I already said that runes and sigils are available for condition defense. Yet thats not good enough.

BurrTheKing.8571:

A.E.D requires trating into it for it to have a decent CD…actually going down to 32 seconds from 40 is still not that great. Even then, it’s a heal that removes all damaging conditions only if you take lethal damge and it also has that high CD. I can’t even see me traiting into gadget reduction on my build that uses 2 of them. I don’t even USE A.E.D because of how clunky it is to use. It’s a cool idea but not a huge help.

Also no, I know Necro is weak to CC. I also know that a good Necro can Fear lock a CC player and corrupt their Stability when they try to get out of it. It’s a weakness they can overcome by being good. Did you also know that Engis most feared opponent is Necro? If you aren’t running Elixirs chances are you WILL lose if the Necro is even remotely good. Even when running Elixirs one screw up and your dead, especially if they do into the fight with Life Force. Did you also know that Engis have little access to stability as well? Once again the only skill that has that is Toss Elixir B. It’s also NOT a stun break/instant cast so you have to anticipate the CC for it to be effective is is generally only used to counteract the self knockback of Overcharged Shot. It also only lasts 4 and 3/4 seconds on around a 30 second CD. You picked a really bad counterargument there. Not that I’m denying it’s not an issue. Necro needs help in some areas but they should NEVER be complaining about Engis.

No the fruits of my argument has clearly come in what you just said. Necros are the engi’s worst enemy right? That’s what the fear the most right? Your entire class is afraid of ONE build a necro has.. ONE build. That ONE build is a condition bomb build. Thats it. You just argued with me earlier about the ONE build issue yet necromancers are completely restricted to conditions. Oh what if they run power?! Wait do they have a power option? Why should necromancers even have a power option. Why cant the devs just remove power from their allotted attributes. All they are, are condition bombs. 1-trick pony’s.

Then if you say: “well GOOD necros can go power and blah blah blah” that also fractures your argument. Now necro’s in that respect aren’t the big bad boogeymeny of engineers.

All the condition removal I just put down simply stated that you have a means to remove conditions: you choose not to use them. You also said that you dont use elixer B.. which is too difficult to use apparently so why use it? I’m sure nobody is good enough to use that skill…. -_-

We’re talking about what a weakness really is. They original post i responded to claimed that engineers are completely useless vs condition builds and its just not true. The options are there and can very well be splashed in several builds even a turret build. And fear? Not only do you have elixer s but fear has 2 counters. No other cc can say the same. condition removal AND stability /stunbreaks.

BurrTheKing.8571:

TheDevice.2751:

Khenzy.9348:

As long as Engineers are as weak as they are against conditions, they wont be as OP as you claim them to be.

Elixer C
Toss Elixer C
Cleansing Burst
Drop Andtidote
Tosss Elixer R
Fumigate
Cleaning Formula 409
Transmute
Automated Response

What?

Taking an Elixir that is focused on cleansing conditions and not taking an offensive or defensive one such as Elixir B or S means you won’t be likely to be killing anything or being much use to anyone. Also of note, most of the condi removal you listed it only on* ONE TYPE OF BUILD*: Elixirs.

Med kit is OK but most of the time you want to quickly remove damaging conditions. With Drop Antidote you have to swap to the kit and then drop it. This means you’re spending a ton of time not damaging the enemy when you could take Healing Turret and only slightly disrupt your damage.

Automated Response was nerfed so hard it’s not really worth using unless you want to bring -condi duration runes and maybe a sigil dealing with removal as well. Even then it’s not a good trait anymore for the most part.

Fumigate is only on allies…so you’re making yourself look silly now. Try reading the skill/playing the class before posting something.

Your average Engi build depends on Healing Turret for removal or 409 and the cleanse on EG. Even with 409 you won’t generally bring 3 Utility Elixirs, at most you’ll have 3 utils and the heal. THis means that you have at most 6 condi removal. All these skills have relatively high CD and not only that but do you really wanna blow your Stability/Stealth just to remove ONE condi?

Now, it is possible for a high damage HGH Elixir build to burst down a condi build before being overwhelmed, but that is ONE type of build on the entire class. Even when Auto Resp was good it was only so on decap/tanky builds for the most part. You wouldn’t be able to go that far into that type of tree and expect to deal much damage.

Your post oozes ignorance, please do some research before posting things like this.

Because of fumigate? Really? Because you only have ONE type of build on the entire class that can counter conditions?

You’re agreeing that you have an entire set of skills that directly relate to condition removal. And this:

A.E.D..

Which they just added to help the poor engis with their ONE difficulty (if it even is that).

You’re the type of person who would make the argument that necro’s have some of the best stability in the game with the soul reaping gm trait. No.. Necro’s REALLY don’t have stability. Like REALLY don’t have it.

AND, there are several sigils and runes that counter conditions and I think only 1 rune set that offers stability (when under 10% health). The issue isnt even about there being an obvious weakness to the engineers class but you have a VERY skewed outlook on what a WEAKNESS really is. A REAL weakness is like a necro having no stability. THAT is a weakness. Engi’s have a slight problem with conditions. Thats all. It’s not detrimental to the class and does not keep them from being highly functional if not viable in all modes aside from perhaps pve.

The realization came to me after the well of blood NERF (thats what it is.. its a nerf btw)

We are susceptible to being knocked away from on of our most heal-hearty heal skills than ever before. While thieves and mesmers can heal in safety, warriors proc’ing their 360 hp per second without the need of any healing, eles gaining the same benefits of healing ticks. guards bleh, rangers regen forever…

Our biggest heal that had a potential healing over time has now been nerfed to crap. We will always get knocked out of this or miss a tick to DS, if using traited soulreaping gm, which means we’re either missing 2-3 ticks or just 2.. or all of them. On top of that: poison hurts us more than ever when rolling wob, the condensed ticks will suffer more than spreading out its strength to give us time to remove the said poison and make use of the wob.

This is where stability comes in… But also where the story ends lol. The wasted time people such as myself take to help this class is really quite pathetic in the end XD.

But here’s an idea that will never happen :P

Ritual of Protection gets bumped to master and adds 2 seconds of stability. Or vampiric rituals add stability. Something has to help us to make use of our wells.

No profession in this entire game has as many counters to their play as necromancers do. Everything and anything we can do can be stopped; and not by a specific build, but by simple mechanics offered across the board. We are the “easiest to play” which becomes incredibly untrue when we are the easiest to suppress.

Something. Anything. idc. None of my ideas will fly since they are from me.. so the devs need to at least do something idc anything.

But overall this is just stressing what we already know. The slow painful truth of the devs methods of “balance” near its clarity to even the casual player now.

Anyways just to show my camp im still rooting for them, my fellow necros.

Khenzy.9348:

As long as Engineers are as weak as they are against conditions, they wont be as OP as you claim them to be.

Elixer C
Toss Elixer C
Cleansing Burst
Drop Andtidote
Tosss Elixer R
Fumigate
Cleaning Formula 409
Transmute
Automated Response

What?

Lifestealer.4910:

Even if engi was OP, they still require more skill to play than all of the current and previous OP builds, so i am perfectly ok with this.

I love how more options turn into “more skill”. Thats total garbage. If you just have non-stop skills at your disposal and a oh-crap button for every single situation thinkable doesn’t mean you’re a good player because you actually did that skill at that time.

Having more options and an array of skills at your disposal is like saying “hey a helicopter is harder to fly than a paper plane because helicopters have more buttons.” Take the necromancer as the paper airplane and hop on to see how far you can fly… and how easy it is to do so.

Bad logic. Bad cover-up. Its just disingenuous and quite frankly gets old to people who see right through that crap.

I do hope that it’s something they look at. I understand (i think) what they where trying to accomplish and hopefully they do look at their numbers. The new light auras and whatnot might of had something to do with it but I do hope they look at the ratios.

Balance Changes in the September 2014 Feature Pack

“Our focus for necromancers in this balance update has been on improving their survivability through utilities and traits… your utility skills have been updated to provide more survivability over time”

Translation:

Well of Blood:
Decreased the active time of this well from 10 seconds to 5 seconds. Increased base healing per pulse by 50%. Updated the skill to have the correct values when Vampiric Rituals is equipped.

I actually laughed really hard like it was a joke when I saw it. I’m just being honest. I really found it funny.

You can see in any recent math-relevant post now about this change that its just a very hard-hitting nerf…….. to our surviviability…. and our allies survivability.

I mean this is just gold right here I’m not sure I’ve seen anything quite like it.

blood tree allows siphoning on crits and aa. And its the dagger tree. Not sure x3 siphons on aa is like.. idk.

Raven.9603:

Kiriakulos.1690:

Necro’s have attrition as their core combat philosophy, but DeathShroud is anything but an attrition mechanic, as any experienced Necro can attest, when you get pulled into combat battle becomes a ticking clock, the longer the fight lasts the less likely the Necro is to win.

This forum habit of taking class descriptions or words used by devs once in a forum post or video as biblical unchanging statements of design intent drive me nuts. how do you really know what anet wants for necro’s “core combat philosophy”?

In this case, some necros have been clinging to the word “attrition” like rangers were clinging to the phrase “unparalleled archers.”

and how are you defining “attrition?”

suppose you enter a fight as a necro:

• you open with DS for the fearlock and burning proc and immediatly drop out to load condis on the enemy.
• enemy somehow survives, gets you to 60% health, you use your heal to get back to 90% health and pop your DS.
• enemy depletes you down to 20% of your DS bar despite your full condi build nuking him for 2k lifeblasts every second.

(timeout: IF you killed your enemy at this point, how is not because of attrition? your 1.5 healthbars outlasted his healthbar)

• you drop deathshroud, pop spectral armor, and by the time your at 60% health again you heal up 90% and go back into a 100% deathshroud
• enemy depletes you down to 20% of your DS bar despite your full condi build nuking him for 2k lifeblasts every second.

(timeout: IF you kill your enemy anytime up to this point, how is it not because of attrition? your 2.5 healthbars outlasted his healthbar.)

• you drop deathshroud, enemy takes you from ~90% of your health down to 20%. But wait! You had Last Gasp traited! at 50% spectral armor popped automajically so before he can get off that killing blow, you jump back into a nearly 100% DS.

(timeout: IF you kill your enemy anytime up to this point, how is it not because of attrition? your 3.5 healthbars outlasted his healthbar.)

---

I think you get the point. Often, Necro’s win fights because their innate class mechanic allows them to outlast their opponents innate healing mechanics. Sometimes, enemies will specialize in healing or damage avoidance mechanics, and they can manage to outlast the necro.

Almost every necro fight is a fight of attrition for your enemy, because they have to outlast your DS(s). Sometimes they can and sometimes they cant. What is the problem with that?

Allowing necros to heal too much in deathshroud is a slippery road, and IMO (as someone who plays a necro fairly often), any changes that improve healing in DS should also come with hard nerf to life force totals.

That’s not it at all. You’re not taking into account any of our weaknesses like lack of stability and long recharges. Stuns/knockdowns or just interrupts are a form of attrition as they will wear down your skill output. Stealth is a form of attrition since it can wait out a death shroud and stay clear of damage.

Practical real-play scenarios will show what real attrition looks like. (this is taking into account our opponents skills, not just ours)

flow.6043:

NeXeD.3042:

If we got heals in ds we would he ridiculously op in pvp.

Absolutely not.

We can’t heal ourselves, at best we’d get a little bit extra through regeneration. Bloodmagic and Parasitic Bond would be improved indirectly, but picking either one or both would mean a loss in damage or survivability somewhere else.
Basically it comes down to how much our allies would be able to heal us, and that should be possible either way. So arguing that an ally heal is balanced unless a necro receives it just doesn’t make sense.

I’m actually surprised to see so many people say we should only receive a percentage of healing in DS, or that it would be entirely overpowered. Neither is true. We need more healing and 100% through DS should just be the first step.

Not entirely true

Wells would be far more relevant if running vampiric rituals and wob. The healing would be real.

But you’re also super right about outside healing. They’ve tested allowing healing in DS. They found that a necro can become invincible.

My issue is that it solves one problem and brings up another. I’m not sure why there can’t be a sub mechanic to DS that relates directly to healing or even just outside heals. There are several methods they could use to still make healing compatible with our class mechanic without fully allowing heals (if that makes any sense).

Bhawb.7408:

I love it, we basically get two completely reasonable nerfs, are still completely viable in every way that we were before… and people are mad because it wasn’t enough. What, did you expect them to magically make us good in PvE? That won’t happen without massive changes that are beyond the scope of normal patches. New builds for PvP? Not gonna happen without new content.

Everything is the same, but with some QoL changes. If you want big sweeping changes you might as well play Wildstar until an expansion comes out.

I’ve actually been looking at Archeage bhawb you should check it out. Has some nice dark magic stuffs too ^^

will be f2p on release.

dancingmonkey.4902:

TheDevice.2751:

Good job. Now can we actually do those things?

Absolutely, see above post.

TheDevice.2751:

Do we actually provide enough pressure to defeat anyone?

Absolutely. The highest condition damage out pt in the game. As a matter of fact there was a strong showing of them in the recent ToL2. They post tourny class chart showed them being the 4th most played profession.

TheDevice.2751:

Like I said previously, look at what other classes can do.

I do, thanks. I have leveled all 8 professions in WvW long ago. I either play differently then you, play different builds then you, or disagree with you.

Did you really read what I said or are you just satisfied with “or [I] disagree with you”.

Did you ever see the SOAC mesmers vs necromancers? Did you see how zombify played in the all-stars? (the only necro btw)

When you say these things.. do you just say them?

dancingmonkey.4902:

The act or process of weakening and gradually defeating an enemy through constant attacks and continued pressure over a long period of time

weakening by removing, stripping, and converting boons, while removing conditions facter then any other profession can. Gradually defeating by transferring their conditions back on them and maintaining out damage over time tics up on them.

Good job. Now can we actually do those things? Do we actually provide enough pressure to defeat anyone? Like I said previously, look at what other classes can do.

If we had non stop bleed, poison, torment on all of our basic attacks which critically struck for 5k each… it wouldnt matter if the other classes had permanent invulnerability. So then would we still have attrition? Would we do anything? No. We wouldn’t.

You’re good at saying what we can do but conveniently leave out what other classes can do and at the rate they can do them.

dancingmonkey.4902:

nearlight.3064:

My build is modeled after this guys build. He’s a necromancer in [NS] a top tier GvG guild on my server.

What does your build have to do with what I am talking about?

By the way, How to you get to the GvG game mode??? I cannot find that button in game.

TheDevice.2751:

It’s not presumptuous at all lol. You just said yourself right now that that’s what you meant in that original statement which was to prove with those arguments that we have attrition. I gave examples of how this logic is backwards. You pointed out defensive capabilities that are not helpful to winning in attrition in real play. So what I did was reply to that statement showing how that was the way I said it was.

I wasn’t reading into your argument and invoking some nonsense, I countered with an argument of my own and gave reasons for it.

I am not following what your saying here. All I read in what he said was about defense and how it relates to attrition. He never seems to go into offensiveness at all. Are you certain you know what attrition means in this context?

By attrition they refer to cutting the enemy off from their boons, cutting them off from landing attacks, with blinds, and cutting off their heals with poison.

And if you were actually curious on what attrition means, it’s to wear you opponent down. Winning by attrition. This should happen over a longer period of time (counter to burst).

dancingmonkey.4902:

nearlight.3064:

My build is modeled after this guys build. He’s a necromancer in [NS] a top tier GvG guild on my server.

What does your build have to do with what I am talking about?

By the way, How to you get to the GvG game mode??? I cannot find that button in game.

TheDevice.2751:

It’s not presumptuous at all lol. You just said yourself right now that that’s what you meant in that original statement which was to prove with those arguments that we have attrition. I gave examples of how this logic is backwards. You pointed out defensive capabilities that are not helpful to winning in attrition in real play. So what I did was reply to that statement showing how that was the way I said it was.

I wasn’t reading into your argument and invoking some nonsense, I countered with an argument of my own and gave reasons for it.

I am not following what your saying here. All I read in what he said was about defense and how it relates to attrition. He never seems to go into offensiveness at all. Are you certain you know what attrition means in this context?

By attrition they refer to cutting the enemy off from their boons, cutting them off from landing attacks, with blinds, and cutting off their heals with poison.

Are you sure you know what attrition means? It means we are able to “cut the enemy off from their boons, cut them of from landing attacks (with blinds), and cut off their heals with poison”. Have you ever played a necromancer? Do you know how many blinds they have? Do you know how many boon flips they have? At what rate they can use these? Do you know how many defenses all other classes have against conditions?

If you want to say “hey necros can deal damage with their basic attack.. Thats something, right? There’s your attrition” And completely ignore all other information about the game then go right ahead. You’re not proving anything.

“hey a necro can gain protection for 10 seconds.. thats attrition right?” Whats the cooldown? What about other players protection? How can they coutner conditions? How many blinds do they have? How much cc do they have? How much stability do they have?

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

What you stated is that necromancers have burst damage.

Quote the post I made this statement please.

You’re confusing yourself cog. What you said.. the point you where trying to make actually implies that we have burst damage and defense, not the other way around. What you said does not mean we have attrition, it means we have the opposite.

You didn’t literally say we have burst. Your arguments ended up saying that even though you meant them to say we have attrition.

Seems a little presumptuous to tell another what they meant.

Please do not read things into my argument, or tell me what my argument is, then use that as a basis for accusation. All I was doing was pointing out the defensive capability that allows them to last long enough to consider a battle, one of attrition.

It’s not presumptuous at all lol. You just said yourself right now that that’s what you meant in that original statement which was to prove with those arguments that we have attrition. I gave examples of how this logic is backwards. You pointed out defensive capabilities that are not helpful to winning in attrition in real play. So what I did was reply to that statement showing how that was the way I said it was.

I wasn’t reading into your argument and invoking some nonsense, I countered with an argument of my own and gave reasons for it.

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

What you stated is that necromancers have burst damage.

Quote the post I made this statement please.

You’re confusing yourself cog. What you said.. the point you were trying to make actually implies that we have burst damage and defense, not the other way around. What you said does not mean we have attrition, it means we have the opposite.

You didn’t literally say we have burst. Your arguments ended up saying that even though you meant them to say we have attrition.

Allow me to expand…

We also have no power ranged weapon meaning if a fight calls for positioning (every fight) a constant direct damage ranged attack will provide more for withering down health than conditions when there are so many defenses against them. We cant keep up with even a ranger / warrior / or engineer in aa when it comes to attrition.

We also have the lowest crit power potential. You can reply with lich but thats again countering your defense since that is purely a burst mechanic.

Since we are a burst class; We should have burst potential equal to a thief. Even thieves have better attrition since stealth is their most used mechanic and stealth controls all fights.

There was a new reveal skill being introduced.. did we get it? Nope. Guess who got that? Engineer. We are non support, non-utility, non attrition, non viable burst, non mobile, non pretty much anything else you can think of.

Where are all those tourney necro’s? I swear the only pro player necro is zombify and last i heard he was flipping tables and prolly not streaming anymore.

coglin.1867:

TheDevice.2751:

Engineer, Elementalist, Mesmer, Warrior, Ranger

Try to come up with a reason why necro’s are… I’ll gladly accept the challenge.

Necromancer’s

They have twice the hit points of any of those professions.

35% up time on protection.

The ability to corrupt those professions boons into conditions.

The ability to remove, transfer, or consume condition at the highest rate of all the profession.

Highest condition damage out put.

Now we’re talking…

Lets talk about those numbers shall we:

As it is that 35% uptime on protection is about 10 seconds every 40 seconds (if traited). That leaves 30 seconds w/o protection no matter how you spin it. It doesnt take 30 seconds to kill a necromancer.

When you say corrupting boons you’re obviously talking about corrupt boon and thats only 5 boons every 32 seconds (if traited). Almost every single class in the game can restack those boon under 10 seconds while also removing those conditions.

You’re talking about the highest condition damage output in the game if other classes had no defense against conditions. You take out the real-play factor in that statement.

4/8 professions can go stealth which is a soft counter to almost every one of the necro’s skills since they are mostly target-based.

Hit points are only an issue if they can be replenished and our blood trait line is the weakest trait line.

We’re talking about prolonged fighting, staying in the fight, and ultimately wearing the enemy down.

All other professions have more skills and shorter cooldowns aside from maybe warrior who relies on passive bonuses like constant 340 health regen in or out of combat. In addition to those short cooldowns and more skills they have CC which will interrupt causing people without stability (necromancer) to fall further behind the skill count being used (also adding interrupt recharge timers).

What you stated is that necromancers have burst defense and burst damage. We cant win against other professions in prolonged combat because the number of skills being used will always favor the opposition. This is an ancient technique called arithmetic. If they are spamming skill after skill after skill after skill while also interrupting your few skills (which also have low cooldown) they are winning the fight.

Oh right +Guardian ty ty

Engineer, Elementalist, Mesmer, Warrior, Ranger

Try to come up with a reason why necro’s are… I’ll gladly accept the challenge.

I agree. The DS stomp res is huge. The change to unholy sanctuary is actually very interesting and makes it far more desirable. Lich form did need a nerf.. just saiyan.

Overall they were good changes.

lol yeah srsly just reroll a engi or mes.. Engi has way better p/p and can stealth and do anything it wants. Mes has better stealth mechanics and can kill you while stealth.

In real tourneys there will be like 3 or 4 profs allowed to play XD engineer (the golden child of anet), mesmer, warrior, and toss up between ele and thief.

Necros and rangers? Are they classes even? XD

Necro profession description: The necromancer is about staying in combat but having an array of handicaps that keep you from winning by attrition. Use your super mentally challenged minions to stand and watch you fight. Have double health bars that are reduced to nothing faster than an elementalist can say “rekt”. Feel the power of having to move in slow motion while your enemies use their lightsabers and dart around your 80-year old ancientness while doing everything you’re supposed to do but better. Enjoy the dark feeling of being completely useless in team fights; calling for your teammates to hold your diapers in place while you struggle to perform basic actions. Watch as all your attempts to weaken your enemy are laughed off and attain ultimate status when you bow down before your superiors and reroll another profession.

Engineer: Enjoy absolutely every mechanic there is in the game while having very little down-sides at all. If you think of any down-sides, use the hidden engi-only skill of forum QQ so pamper-control can fix it all. Feel the power of pretty much being the master race, having a million skills at your fingertips, stealth, crowd control, tank, dps, heal, support, group utility and thats just when you smashed your first 5 keys. Be completely viable in every single game mode. Control the battlefield with the power of dev favoritism and deploy your personal pet, the necromancer, to tickle your enemies while you blow a hole in the internet with your face.

Im only messin.. but srsly…

It’s not even mobility im concerned with. It’s sustained fighting and keeping your enemy from resetting / leaving the fight. Our main job is to stay in the fight and keep the enemy in the fight too. As it is now, any class can disengage from a fight against a necromancer and other classes have better tools to keep in a fight with a feeling enemy. This is just a bogus deal.

The way they set up some of the other professions leaps / non-target teleports makes them far more versatile not only for chasing but for evading and leaving a fight entirely.

In comparison, we are like old 70-year-old grandmothers who are like “eye get back here you youngsters and you’re super speed” when trying to catch somebody. When trying to flee we’re like “eye you wouldn’t hurt and elderly old cripple would you?”

Thieves, Warriors, Mesmers, Engineers, Elementalists all have superior chase mechanics and disengage mechanics than we do. This is just bogus.

However! This is not to say we can’t chase or disengage. What I’m saying is when you compare our traits and skills used in real play they are inferior to other classes when it comes to mobility overall. One of the main reasons it’s so hard for us to keep up isn’t because we lack so many cripples / chill or things like pulls, its that combines with high mobility that includes non target teleports and leaps they also have the best soft removals that will generally include removing things like cripple, immobilize, and chill. They give us these tools to stay in a fight, to keep our enemy in a fight, but then give them everything they need to counter our attempts.

Another major difference is our class’ skills are comprised almost entirely of target based mechanics. We need to be/see in range of an enemy to use something to do our soft cc or chase them. This is incredibly difficult when most classes in the game counter that without requiring a specific build to do so. Many of these counters like stealth are just built in the class like its almost difficult to not have these mechanics available.

Actually I find it easier to escape than to chase especially in WvW. My escapes include swiftness from either sw or wh5, using ds5 for area immobilize or staff 5 / spectral wall to fear, dark path a mob, and whatever else I can use. This is still extremely difficult and is no where near the simplistic warriors gs leaps while removing cc effects lol and especially nowhere near stealth (offered to thieves, mesmers, engineers and rangers.)

I’m not entirely sure what we need to be honest. Our class is based on restrictions while others are based on what they can actually do. Engineers main theme is to have everything. The very theme of our class is about what we can’t do. Warriors are meant to engage, disengage, deal high damage, have high def, etc, guardians are pretty much the same as warriors instead they heal more than they are mobile, thieves cant be seen, mesmer can’t be seen or even need to show themselves to kill you, elementalists can build the glassiest zerker build in the game and tank more than a guard, rangers can aa you from 20 miles away. Necromancers have bad mobility, have sub par aoe, have handicapped minions, no boons to speak of, no real utility, no major game-breaking mechanics aside from maybe fear (has the most counters of any cc), we cant stomp or res as well as other classes, but we do have health.

I’m not trying to be a complete downer lol. Reading over what i type sometimes I know it sounds that way but I’m saying I think our profession needs a close look at what it’s issues are and I think they are more to do with the foundation of the design.

Glov.5342:

Your idea is nice, interesting and sounds very fun to use.

However, bear in mind that main-hand weapons need to have a spammable 1, that’s how we kill stuff. You’re proposing a CHANNELING 1, which is completely against all other weapons in the game.
If you changed to, say, a melee-hit that continuously build up damage, and exploding into a projectile on the 3rd hit, would be useful.

I’d really like to see something like this implemented for necromancers, but with a channeling 1 it’s just a no-no, unfortunately.

The auto attack is there… The auto is simply a double activation. Completing the channel is for anchoring the skull on your shield. So: you activate your H1, it starts a channel, you can immediately activate a gain to cancel the channel and shoot a death head.

Since its a main hand shield it already is in the realm of being different then other main hand weapons. And since its a shield it should feel a tad more sluggish (taking a mere 1 extra button smash to aa). The skill 1 was intentional. It’s not supposed to feel like a dagger (high speed repeated attack).

If you’re firing off one death head at a time the damage will be sub par (as i feel it should be). Building up 3 death heads, using h2 and h3 to their full effects, tanking and mitigating damage, and releasing your 3 heads at a critical moment is the more ideal approach. After that sequence or if all your death heads have been demolished from mass damage mitigation would be be spamming 1 death head in the middle of combat.

The death head idea is in the “preparation” region of the necromancer theme (like flesh wurm) and will favor a more buid-up approach.

The auto will take an additional key push but take less time than the DS auto.

Azzer.8137:

I love this idea, it’s really really cool, but as Captain unusual is sayinh, Life force regeneration is a must on any necromancer weapon.

But really cool and well themed!

Love the art as well!

wow thanks for the reminder about the life force (completely forgot for some reason). I added life force on the death head skill.

Shield

Main Hand
1 – Death Head: Minion. Channel and summon a death head (max 3) on the face of your shield that will absorb damage and add life force when attacked.
- Unleash: Shoot the summoned death head and all existing death heads at target enemy.
Minion 1: damage 500
Minion 2: damage 500 / 1 second daze
Minion 3: damage 800 / 1 second knockdown
Small projectile finisher
Death heads absorb 7% incoming damage
Life force: 1% per death head
(destroyed when striking an enemy.)

2 – Twisted Link: Block the next attack. Counter by chilling and switching positions with the enemy that attacked you.
- Twist of Plasma: Siphon health from nearby enemies. Increases siphon strength for each existing death head.
Damage (x4): 609
Healing: 105 per pulse.
Bonus damage per death head: 25
Bonus healing per death head: 32

3 – Dark Vortex: Cause your shield to orbit your position dealing damage and blocking ranged attacks while moving closer to you with every cycle. Death heads add chance to gain might on blocks.
Channel 2.45 seconds
Radius: 320-140
Damage: 740
Area Might: 1 stack (5s) / 10% chance per death head
Whirl Finisher

Minion Stats
Death Head – Armor 1300 – Health 4200
(immune to crowd control effects, boons, and conditions.)

For some quick clarification on the death head stuff: Activating the secondary will shoot a death head. If you don’t activate secondary, the summoned death head will lock in place for later use. If you already have a death head(s) locked in place, activating the secondary will fire all the death heads including the initial one from activation.

Sorry for the quality of art, i did them both at a coffee shop lol. The first one is a sketch of the death head appearance and the second one is just a sketch of using dark vortex, though without any death heads QQ.

I’ll add more detail to the skills shortly.

@Rashan & Lily – I think the fact that Dhuumfire doesn’t have anything to do with reanimating the dead it’s not that unreasonable to have. Dhuum also had a general named The Fury (an elementalist) that focused on fire magic. The reason Dhuumfire is called so is because Grenth is a god of death and ice. If there was a minion skill that was called “Dhuum-something” then there would be a problem. Dhuumfire is equal to saying it’s a non-grenth magic or even a heretical / forbidden spell which would actually make much sense.

As for the fire effect being on a pistol and not torment; if they made a combo field that generated torment effects on projectile finishers then I’d be all for removing the fire field effect from the weapon. But since it’s mainly a power weapon the field is for might or a spike in damage via fire damage.

@ Tad – It’s mainly a power weapon. I’ll throw in some more stats a bit later. I’m actually working on a few more ideas also and might just include them all in the main post.

I’m not sure the dev’s think this is something we necro’s should have but I really like the idea anyway.

Pistol Main Hand
1 – Dhuum Shot: Ranged shot causing damage and will cause poison while striking enemy from the front. (Gain 1% life force. 1.25 second poison. 1.45 second recharge, small projectile finisher, 900 range)
2 – Ash of Flesh: Fire in the air and cause a weakening fire field. (2.5 second duration. Pulse: 1 second. 1.5s Weakness . Fire field.)
3 – Horror Slug: (compliments to Bhawb) Minion. Summon a jagged horror by firing it from your pistol at your enemy. (projectile finisher. 1.25 cast time, enemies struck within 300 range are knocked back)

Pistol Off Hand
4 – Gloom Shot: Ranged attack dealing damage and cause cripple while striking enemy from behind or the sides. (Gain 1% life force. 1.5 second cripple. 1.65 second recharge, small projectile finisher, 900 range)
5 – Dust of Bone: Fire into the air, blinding nearby enemies. (2 second blind. Blast finisher.)

This provides some group utility and a unique play style with projectile finisher.

New Traits

Curses / Master
Bewitched Bullets: Gain precision while wielding a pistol and increase success chance with small projectile finisher pistol skills. (+50 precision and small projectile finishers have 50% chance of success.)

I updated again and it seems a bit less strange lol

@nearlight: Yeah most of our area control comes from wells like you said. But I like the idea of making marks a sort of “keep out” sort of thing even though thats solely a pvp type of strategy. Reactivating simply for insurance that they are not dodged through is also pertaining mostly to pvp so might feel completely unnecessary in pve. I think the staff is intended as an area denial/ utility set though doesn’t do the denail part as often as you’d like

I think they’re going to add the new reveal mechanic to axe 3……

I hear ya bhawb im just toying with some ideas. I actually think a delay on the marks will add counter play like you’re talking about. The secondaries could make up for that or just reducing their cooldowns.

So I was reading the recent post by a necro on how “boring” marks feel on our staff; a weapon with the most skills of all the weapons we have; and they all feel the same. I don’t think the mark concept is bad I just agree with the poster about staff needing some versatility in its skills and visuals.

Why marks feel redundant: They have very little counterplay in actual play. Placing something on the ground for a set period of time that will trigger its effects upon enemy interaction sounds like a trap but marks are not used as a trap, they’re used like aoe nukes. It’s also the easiest “trap” to see coming and evade (dodge/roll). This makes the staff number of counter-plays less than 3, and the counter-play is a one-step action versus four skills. For example: a warrior blocks while or in anticipation to you laying down marks (or dodge/roll). When you fight a staff mesmer or especially a staff ele, they have a variety of move sets and skills that offer equally as many counter measures to you.

But like I said I really like the idea behind marks and feel that it has prime potential for a bit of expanded play. The updated version below is still a bit strange, like bawb said lol, but the idea is to still allow marks as utility while offering additional options for play through transformations.

I also wanted to make it clear that the marks will still produce their standard effects when triggered by an enemy. I just didn’t add those effects in the descriptions.

Concept: Invoking (UPDATED)
Invoking the mark will be a secondary skill given to each mark once its layed on the ground. Invocations transform the player and will trigger all nearby marks, gaining additional transform bonuses.

Change to marks: Marks will now have a 1 second delay before it may be triggered by an enemy. Marks will not recharge while in a invocation transformation thingy. lol

Examples

Mark of Blood:
Transform bonus: Gain regeneration and condition duration.
[secondary] Blood Bat: Transform. Stun-breaker. Become a vampire bat.
effects: 15% bonus move speed, 8 second duration.
1 – Claw: strike your enemy with a siphoning claw attack.
2 – Rebound: stun-break and a heal.
3 – Shriek: Daze a foe.
4 – Swoop: Deal damage in a line.
5 – Deep Bite: A massive siphon attack, causing bleed.

Chilblains:
Transform bonus: Gain might and health.
[secondary] : Chilblains Ooze: Transform. Become a sickly ooze that spreads poison and chill to enemies.
effects: 8 second duration.
1 – Ooze Slap: Hit your enemy with a short ranged attack.
2 – Bounce: Area damage and a poison field. (no range)
3 – Ooze Trail: Cause poison on yourself, leaving trail of ooze that chills foes.
4 – Spikes: Damage and bleed nearby foes.
5 – Liquid Death: Move through a foe, covering them in ooze causing poison chill and immobilize. Ends transform.

Putrid Mark:
Transform bonus: Gain healing power and condition damage.
[secondary] Putrid Sarcophagus: Minion. Transform. Become immobile and invulnerable while locked inside an undead coffin. Transformation ends when sarcophagus is destroyed.
effects: Invulnerable. 4 second duration. Sarcophagus gains 2 seconds stability.
1 – Putrid Hail: Cause a frozen skull to land on target area, chilling and damaging foes. (small radius, .45 second groud-telegraph cast time, fast recharge.)
2 – Toxic Fumes: Discharge toxic gas from your sarcophagus, poisoning enemies.
3 – nil
4 – nil
5 – Burst from your sarcophagus sending bone and flesh shrapnel in an area dealing damage. Blast finisher. 0.5 second cast time.

Reapers Mark:
Transform bonus: Gain ferocity, accuracy and +4 seconds transform duration.
[secondary] Lupus Reaper: Transform. Spectral. Take the form of a spectral dire wolf.
Effects: 25% bonus move speed. Bonus power. 8 second duration.
1 – Ghost Bite: Bite your enemy and gain 1% life force.
2 – Chilling Howl: Chill nearby enemies.
3 – Fearsome Gaze: Gain stability for 1 second and cause fear to up to 3 nearby enemies facing you.
4 – Pounce: Leap towards your enemy to damage and bleed your foe. Leap finisher.
5 – Dark Den: Enter Death Shroud and retain your current skill set.

Notes:
Your character would have to be within range of the active marks for the secondary to become available.

These secondary activations might seem extravagant but they can be simplified further. The idea is that these transformations will not be compounded often while in the middle of combat and will create a stronger transform in preparation of a fight.

Survivability, active defenses, and avenues for counter play is all these are geared toward. Restricting staff recharge during transform makes it different from ele.

Look I don’t really understand whats happening behind the anet curtain of darkness. But I think we can agree that necro’s have been a tad underplayed and for good reasons. Maybe there is some truth behind some lack of necro-dev specialist and would explain much of the discombobulated tweaks to the class. For example, I’m generally more inspired to think about what necro’s could use because.. I like necromancers lol.

But whatever changes they make we’ll have to work around them. There’s even discord among the necromancer community itself for what necromancers are in need of. The dev’s (in retrospect) try to adhere to the issues that stand out.

I understand where bawb is coming from, it’s a bit disheartening to know that even IF there was a slight chance that the necromancer community might have had to have a say in what they may feel is a more sensible approach (like the Enfeeble example), that chance has significantly decreased.

And I think if anyone is to be blamed for the conception of how necro’s are “whiny” its me lol; not spoj or bawb. I can get rage-aholic about some of my own experiences especially if they are things necro’s tend to find regularly problematic.

I don’t break desks… Mine is too pretty.

We can’t play like other classes because we’re the up class of the game. It’s really that simple. While other classes get real updates and evolve with the game.. necromancers are stuck in beta along with nerfs. It’s pretty clear that necros have not gotten as much attention as any of the real classes (engineers, thieves, mesmers, eles, guards, wars). Even the ranger has gotten an AI update on their pets. It really makes things obvious when you hear stuff like that about zombify. But to me these things have been obvious for a long time now.

Check this out..

What can our class almost do? bunker? maybe.. but we are the easiest to get decapped since we have the lowest amount of stability in the game. Fears would help us if not for the fact guards wars and even engi’s (real bunkers) have not only stability but condition clears.

Lets take another look at something interesting…

boon duration and condition duration. They are both given to every class via trait lines yet only one of them can be used to its fullest by the necromancer. Every class can use condition duration as every class can run a condition build. Boon duration is an entire stat that we cannot use like the rest.

Healing power…. Why? I for one love using siphons and plopping fat heals on myself in hotjoins… in real games (tpvp) vs real bunkers, the truth is evident. Healing in DS is not allowed. This is the ONLY class mechanic that is RESTRICTIVE. DS is our bread and butter and we cant escape its use… why then make it incompatible with core mechanics?

All these things and many more… I’m not sure what they’re going to do next patch and honestly am not that concerned. Soon zombify will rename himself mesmify and play a mesmer like poor nemesis was forced to.

…. who plays pve anyway? silly geese.

srsly the bosses are not entirely riveting to fight. dungeons are beautiful and have so much available as do fractals.. sadly the “hardcore” players always find the most mechanical, stale, boring and (granted) fastest methods to clear them. No time for enjoyment, its work. Go in, know the strict meta rules and patterns constructed by the community.. robot yourself along the confines of the droning meta routes and objectives.. rise, repeat.

I don’t like to mention outside games on this forum, and as I said I don’t believe it’s entirely the dev’s doing since they obviously put so much work and detail into their dungeons, but games like monster hunter or shadow of the collossus still hold the gold when in comes to fun boss battles. Or dark souls.. until you get to god status… and even then…

Neko.9021:

What on earth is the purpose of adding more stuff onto the Necromancer?

The bizarre shared recharge time of different skills and different kit skills is completely unintuitive. The Necromancer doesn’t need more kits. The class already has plenty of tools with DS and its 5 skills, along with the standard 2 weapon sets. I don’t see what this will accomplish or achieve, at all.

DS locks you out of your utilities and from any of your life gain (regen, siphoning, etc). This is a restrictive tool set and is why it should be expanded to allow the player to involve more of the games basic mechanics.

When you compare the mechanic to any other class mechanic in the game you can see how difficult it is to really expand your available builds and functionality. The simplest answers:
allowing healing (not a valid answer imo because then necro’s will never die)
add your utilities to the DS transform (also not a great idea since it escapes the essence of what DS is.. a transform)

well okay i actually just made a post like this a week ago. post

The idea isn’t bad imo.. The fact that it still locks utilities defines it from that of ele and is not based on your weapon set.

My vamp wells build

this build i picked up from another player is decent in wvw: well shroud

they can both be tweaked however u want of course and the well shroud build can be tweaked for spvp.

I like wells too so i’d like to help though im not sure what exactly you are looking for. wells and staff can work together the only downside is choosing if you want ritual of protection over staff mastery

You can use staff in almost any build really, but if you’re trying to trait entirely for both it might cause some conflicts.

Staff and wells are both mostly utility so you still have to decide what kind of role you want your build; conditions, power, bunker

I use a power build that can bunker and support and is pretty strong in hotjoins for spvp so if thats what you’re interested in let me know.

I would really like to expand on this tbf…

If we could actually break DS into 3 separate transforms it would be far more interesting and allow more synergy.

Death Shrouds —-
The idea is to keep a similar action which may relate to traits but offer different styles of play.

Spectral Shroud — same as regular Death Shroud

Blood Shroud — infuse your life force with the blood of your foes and your own. Gain all incoming healing effects. 20% of all incoming damage is dealt to your health bar. -50% incoming life force.

1. Blood Sap – create funnel of energy from target location to your necro, siphoning and damaging the first enemy it hits.
2. Crimson Path – Send a crimson hand at target enemy that teleports you to them on hit and stuns for 1 second while causing a massive siphon attack.
3. Hemophobia – Bleed yourself and cause aoe fear (up to 3) for 1 second.
4. Blood Storm – channel aoe damage and siphoning while gaining increased siphoning against bleeding enemies.
5. Blood Bond – for 5 seconds, gain retaliation and transfer conditions to enemies who hit you.

Bone Shroud — infuse your life force with scattered remains to form a protective layer of bone and flesh. -50% incoming healing. -50% incoming life force.

1. Skull Blast – Send a flying skull head at your foes, damaging the first enemy hit. Will explode at the end of its path range to inflict area damage.
2. Bone Grasp – Send out a bone hand that latches onto your enemy and anchors to the ground, immobilizing your foe for 5 seconds or until the hand is broken. (projectile finisher)
3. Spinal Wings – Form a pair of bat wings from your back and fly above the ground for a split second then crash down on enemies dealing aoe damage. (blast finisher)
4. Living Shrapnel – channel while causing a swirling mass of bone parts to orbit the necro for 4 seconds, damaging and crippling enemies struck. (whirl finisher)
5. Bone Dust – create a cloud of white bone dust around your necro, which blind and poison foes. (poison field)

I’m not entirely sure how these would be included in the already defined traits… possibly a slight rewording maybe.. but either way I think these ideas are good for what we’ve been discussing imo.

yeah so I saw some ds topics here and there and want to throw my ideas out there

Unholy Sanctuary
Instead of a regen while in ds,
You gain a percentage of all incoming healing based on the percentage of absent LF while in DS. (same as incoming healing is reduced by your current percent of LF, either way is fine)

(example being if you have 40 percent life force while in ds you gain 60% of all incoming healing effects. If you have 100% lf you gain 0% incoming healing.)

if death shroud is our main form of defense i suggest:

Speed of Shadows
also gain 2 seconds of quickness when entering DS when above 50% LF.
(this would make the trait more desirable and allow faster ds4 soaks)

Near to Death
also cause 1 second blindness to nearby enemies when entering DS.
(a means to use DS as a form of a quick “block” if timed just right vs health wiping attacks.)

Dark Armor
also gain 2 seconds of stability when channeling.
(this will make the trait way more desirable / add some insurance to ds4)
(one of my old ideas)

TheDevice.2751:

I would really like to expand on this tbf…

If we could actually break DS into 3 separate transforms it would be far more interesting and allow more synergy.

Death Shrouds —-
The idea is to keep a similar action which may relate to traits but offer different styles of play.

Spectral Shroud — same as regular Death Shroud

Blood Shroud — infuse your life force with the blood of your foes and your own. Gain all incoming healing effects. 20% of all incoming damage is dealt to your health bar. -50% incoming life force.

1. Blood Sap – create funnel of siphoning energy from target enemy to you.
2. Crimson Path – Send a crimson hand at target enemy that teleports you to them on hit and stuns for 1 second while causing a massive siphon attack.
3. Hemophobia – Bleed yourself and cause aoe fear (up to 3) for 1 second.
4. Blood Storm – channel aoe damage and siphoning while gaining increased siphoning against bleeding enemies.
5. Blood Bond – for 5 seconds, gain retaliation and transfer conditions to enemies who hit you.

Bone Shroud — infuse your life force with scattered remains to form a protective layer of bone and flesh. -50% incoming healing. -50% incoming life force.

1. Skull Blast – Send a flying skull head at your foes, damaging the first enemy hit. Will explode at the end of its path range to inflict area damage.
2. Bone Grasp – Send out a bone hand that latches onto your enemy and anchors to the ground, immobilizing your foe for 5 seconds or until the hand is broken. (projectile finisher)
3. Spinal Wings – Form a pair of bat wings from your back and fly above the ground for a split second then crash down on enemies dealing aoe damage. (blast finisher)
4. Living Shrapnel – channel while causing a swirling mass of bone parts to orbit the necro for 4 seconds, damaging and crippling enemies struck. (whirl finisher)
5. Bone Dust – create a cloud of white bone dust around your necro, which blind and poison foes. (poison field)

I’m not entirely sure how these would be included in the already defined traits… possibly a slight rewording maybe.. but either way I think these ideas are good for what we’ve been discussing imo.

Well

Since there is a cleave on dagger hint to necro’s as well, if it does go through i might expect them to make some changes to our dagger traits… which would kinda suck. (possibly lowering siphoning on vampiric precision). And i hope they don’t decrease immobilize time… (pray to grenth)

if they buff axe they have plenty of ways to do so and personally i hope it’s along the lines of increasing vuln stacking. I’m almost expecting a new aa or even axe2.

They’ve been working on traits so I’m hopeful they might do something for unholy sanctuary (though im still not convinced this trait is absolutely unusable) but still would be nice for a buff.

I would like to see some bug fixes with minions… hopefully they noticed

Hopefully they mess with signet if undeath to make it usable.

Spiteful marks….

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

Thief really needed another cleave.

But yes, I think its very likely that necro dagger will get cleave, although I don’t think you should get LF per person hit, its already a really nice amount. Multi-target scaling should come from other sources.

I think on a melee weapon including only 1 additional target it makes sense to include LF on those hits.

IDK if anyone else has pointed this out…

but its not a terrible GM trait, its just in the wrong trait line; not only because the Dm trait line doesn’t add healing power but its also not the necro’s main lifeforce trait line either.

So as a GM trait that relies more on two separate trait lines (not its own) is very difficult to make effective. To get the best results you would need to trait in both blood magic and soul reaping to support US. I just think its a very strange set-up but what do i know

Mayama.1854:

TheDevice.2751:

Mayama.1854:

8-12 cd on each weapon skill? Did you ever play one? and they cant do that all in one spec…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpPr1XxELseRSbBFqYAyMMCRlxPvgAkUA-TpgTQA5yAg9HAA

sry

No one plays that… and you completly ignore your wrong statement that you can get a 12cd on each weapon skill. You even post it with cleric amulett and vampiric runes, things that no one uses. Its some squishy VERY WEIRD power build that is not meta at all in sPvP. No speedy kits etc… very strange trait selection no engi would use, ever. Also stealth and stability is not something you can spam with that build. Please play a class for some month bevor you post some weird kitten build to proof your point.

You seem to spread alot of engi hate in every thread you post because of some unexplained personal problem against the class.

I obviously exaggerated the cdr on most of their skills. But that was just to convey the idea that they are not that long.

You said that an engi could not do all the things I said in that post. I just made a very quick and silly build just to prove that you could do all those things , it wasn’t to create some viable build at all. I edited that build from a necro build I had used and didn’t even bother switching out the runes or amulet or attempt to create a viable trait setup. I was merely to prove that you can do all the things I said in that statement on one build.

Just because you can’t spam stealth doesn’t make much of a difference. You can do it during important situations like escaping. My point is that an engineer can do a very wide range of things when they feel the need to which is just unfair lol. They have a high skill cap for players to learn and allow far more avenues of winning fights than at the very least necros do.

I don’t like engineers so much be cause they are the obvious favorite class of the devs. They are never in need of any buffs but still are catered to whatever the engi community desires such as my example with condition cleansing. They have so little to complain about and even the small things that might make them weak the devs are in a hurry to fix.

Necromancers are the red headed step child of the game. There is no real doubt about that in my mind. Necro’s have been qqing for sustain for who knows how long and are never responded to. Take a look back at the gw2 livestream they did when they introduced the new heal skills… Since then it told me everything about how they view each class. They spent like 2 minutes bored to tears presenting the SoV, not much commentary, awkward silences, and pretty much showcasing how terrible it was. Then skip ahead to the engi portion of the segment… A complete turn-around in energy when showcasing the AED, going in-depth, giddily laughing and spending like 8 minutes hyping it up and showing off how amazing it was.

You don’t really have to look that far into the history of the game to see the difference on how each of the classes are handled. The necro has pretty much been on the short end of the stick since pre-launch.

pdavis.8031:

@the device

Just for kicks: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Are-necros-op-now/page/5#post2314579

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Fix-deathshroud-first/page/2#post4257900

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-op

Again your missing the point. At some point or another almost every profession has had the claim that it was OP and need of a nerf. While the percieved OP of any class is a matter of opinion, and in most, if not all, cases it was proven that it is not OP at all. I wasnt setting out to prove, or disprove, the OPness of any class, just to comment that the balance of the professions is generally a claim that some classes are more OP than others, and those classes should be fixed to bring it on the level of the others.

well im not sure if you read any of those threads or just found ones that mentioned deathshroud or something similar. The Necromancer is OP thread has been demolished by the necro community and was posted by a guy who didnt even know the difference between hotjoin and tourny. He hasn’t responded to his own thread for about 2 weeks since he claimed he would get a top spot on lb.

The first one you posted was about a year ago and would agree that the dhummfire patch made terrormancers overpowred… this was a year ago. Since then they do less damage that they did before that patch was introduced.

If you point, if im hearing this correctly, is that at one time or another a class has been overpowered or has be stated by the community kitten then i agree.

But that really doesn’t have anything to do with what I was talking about especially since im talking about present (live) balance issues pertaining to necromancers getting the short end of the stick. They had 1 overpowered patch which was followed by a series of nerfs that sent them back into an even worse state than they were before the dev’s thought they would “help”.

pdavis.8031:

TheDevice.2751:

necros cant possibly be op in any way… only infect was invited to gamescom (the only necro that is ever invited to anything just because they need a staple necro there somewhere).

Engi’s are kittened….

The thing is.. Every single class has a high skill cap or is overpowered, except for the necromancer and maybe ranger.

Necro has no skill cap whatsoever. Engis have like 5 weapons they can pull out of their kitten with like 8-12 second max cdr on each of their weapon skills. They can do so much. Stealth? Np. Load the floor with a million bombs after a 4 second immobilize on enemy? Np. Nades? Sure why the hell not. Invulnerable? Yeah.. oh and invuln rez/stomp of course.

How are necro’s overpowered? I’d reallly like to listen to it. I mean give it your best shot really I’d like to hear what you could come up with. Dat lich form 3k auto attack? on a 3 minute cooldown? so broke. Plus lich locks you out of any support from utilities and doesnt offer any armor.

But lets hear it if anyone can think of something.

While I dont agree with the OPness of any of the professions (except maybe theif) as far as necros, and the forums, death shroud makes a necro OP. Along with the amount of condition spamming, and fantasic condition cleansing. In fact theres a thread about it now.

Basically I was being sarcastic, because I see OP threads on every profession and how they need to be nerfed because someone cant kill them in PvP or WvW.

I’m not sure if you typo’d or did not convey your intended message but what im getting thus far is you say necro is OP because of death shroud… and condition cleanse, and condition spams.

I’d like to know where you got this information from. So if you could provide a link to that thread on how those things make a necro OP I’d love to check it out.

Mayama.1854:

8-12 cd on each weapon skill? Did you ever play one? and they cant do that all in one spec…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpPr1XxELseRSbBFqYAyMMCRlxPvgAkUA-TpgTQA5yAg9HAA

sry