Guild Wars 2

Gondor needs no stun…

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Is there anything about the necromancer that hasn’t been nerfed into uselessness at this point? We barely have any viable builds left. We have no defense what so ever. In PVE our class has been destroyed due to all the pvp nerfs. But yeah, nerf the minions too while you’re at it. Maybe we could have the minions have no ai, instead of bad ai. How about the moment you encounter a foe, the minions run in random directions?

Then again, we could also just make Dhuumfire a fixed trait on everyone’s trait tree. I get the impression that’s what the balance team is going for with our class.

No! I already like my minions deciding whether or not to do anything in a fight. I like to watch them… They’re not sure if they want to. They look at eachother and pick their noses for a bit. It’s really interesting.

I had a guy right next to me, im spinning my axe 2 and my bone minions are like “yeaaahhhh…. idk…. ugh… do i smell farm? Hmm. wat to do? Who’s that guy? He has nice shoes…”

It’s really enjoyable.

Avigrus.2871:

New skill: Rage Quit… summon 5 warriors to chain stun you to death, forcing you to rage quit.

stream

“okay now on to the necro..”

“the what?”

“The necromancer…”

“….The what?”

ughgh “the.. Warrior’s (bleep)?”

“Ohhhhh! Riiiiight. The NECRO.. Got it.”

Necro’s can’t be beaten… can’t kill something that’s already dead.

this is the necro mantra people. Say it in your sleep. Say it before you log on/off. Say it in the shower.

It will bring you peace.

new weapon concept

Nerf Bat
1. Werk dat VAMP. Self Hit. Hit yourself and steal life from (actually damage) yourself.
2. Life so GOOD. Steal life from any other necro on your team. Damage 3000 Siphon (actually does damage) over 9000!
3. Best JH NA. Create a jagged horror that explodes instantly, destroying your monitor.
4. YUNEEDis? Lock your keyboard for 4 hours.
5. Well of Poop. Create a well of poop. Only necros can enter well of poop. Any necro inside well of poop is properly flushed.

The concept was even decent like bhawb said. There was team interaction, counterplay, etc. I think they intended it for WvW/pve. But the numbers just are not worth.

Actually I saw then talk more on how to avoid the signet than actually it performing well. The signet can actually be worse! All that’s really left is for it to have a 5 second cast time. :P

Spoj The Second.7680:

Im hoping they realise it needs some last minute adjustments before the patch on tuesday. Lol.

I mean I’m not even that bothered. If they do that’s great. Idk I know they work hard and these guys do try but still. I don’t understand why take the time to create something that’s not good? XD I could see it in their faces that the signet was underwhelming. They just wanted to move on lol.

Care for these guys, they try but I just wish there was a bit more fascination for the necro’s. I’m sure im wrong, but I really just feel that the necros are their most difficult class to add to because it’s their least favorite. That might sound childish or just obnoxiously ignorant, but I personally know that it’s more of a struggle to create something interesting and worthwhile when it’s something I’m not into.

Bhawb.7408:

Yeah, this has really annoyed me. They took a skill that could have been really fun, have taken a lot of skill/counterplay to use properly, and made it… this.

ughghgh

I mean I couldn’t even watch the dev’s talk about it. It felt so awkward. They were completely uninterested XD. They were just like “yep.. nice big red signet over their head. It’s great. We done?”

I have gripes towards engis right now and watching that made it worse lol. They were so excited about the 14k heal. Like and what was with their reasoning idk man sometimes I just get annoyed like “yeah its a high risk high reward. Mainly used for those squishy builds” Yeah… because we all know those engi’s love running squishy builds.

And where’s the risk again? Oh right this: “Yeah, your opponent will really have to time it right. They have to know when to stop attacking you.”………………….. So either you gain a 14k heal.. or you stop getting attacked… What? Wheres the risk again? And still heals for a decent amount.

Rennoko.5731:

So I missed the very obvious change from the data mine earlier. They removed the passive damage portion of the siphon and now it is just the heal. That means under the absolute best possible circumstances, it is 75percent of the warrior heal. Of course we have to be getting constantly hit too.

It made since for it to be lower than the warrior signet because it had the damage portion now it is just sadly weaker in every possible way.

That’s awesome. I was hoping for a bad skill. This is garbage XD

I kid the devs. but srsly.. xd

i still have hope. They can change it soon. They can still doit. Just turn back time. Reset

If it is a spectral heal..

Reapers Medley
Gain x health and x% LF. Resets your DS recharge. Breaks stun,

If its a signet

Reapers Signet
Passive: Increase all LF gain by 100%
Active: Gain heath based on your current LF amount.

Locuz.2651:

Lighter.5631:

i think people misunderstood him, hes saying that engi as a class has access to too many things. not as a player how hard or easy it is to play…

He states clearly how engineers in his eyes are the most OP class. That could be due to the variety they have at their disposal within a team context. But i highy doubt he is talking about that.

If you look at his post history. He literally stated that engineers are his toughest 1v1 opponents while playing a necro. Post from the thread “Thoughest three opponents in 1v1”:

Engi definitely.

Mesmer comes in second.

And yes.. I will say elementalist. They have very good CC and can easily avoid all of your important skills and utilities thrown at them. They have amazing burst which means your chance for DS helping is very small.

So as necro his major gripes are with engineer, mesmer and elementalist. Could be me…but those are actually the 3 profession a necro mancer doesnt struggle with unless he gets outplayed or gets caught without life force.

Which I find hilarious that you made this relevant since you posted my response from that thread and somehow didn’t realize that the majority of responses were Engineer, mesmer and warrior.

Toughest 3 opponents in 1v1 pvp

Locuz.2651:

Yes, he is complaining about engineer while maining a necro.

Its the same guy who made the follow statement:

“Deciding to make a necro is like choosing Hard Mode on GW2”

And I stand by that… thanks?

NevirSayDie.6235:

I think the OP has made an excellent suggestion. Engineer is too fun to allow people to use other professions!

The best part of his suggestion: condi engineers would no longer have to deal with condi necros, the single build that hardcounters them perfectly.

This sounds like an engi fanboy Automated Response. Get it?

RaynStargaze.6510:

Locuz.2651:

Yes, he is complaining about engineer while maining a necro.

Its the same guy who made the follow statement:

“Deciding to make a necro is like choosing Hard Mode on GW2”

LOOOOOOL

pathetic

if u lose as necro vs any condi engi build you just kittening suck horribly.

Power/CC u can lose to as necro but power/CC loses to everything else anyway.

Also if u believe its kittening ezmode just reroll engi – super ez top 1 ladder yes gogo!

another automated response? XD

And CC? Because the bulk of our condition damage comes from fear so…………. yeah…

So not only does our main condition damage source suckass vs engi’s but so does power… Man you’re doing great thx for the help.

can you just not even beat around the bush with how favored engineers are?

I’m sick of the imbalance. Just let only engineers play spvp. Stop making it seem like every other class has a fair chance. It’s mind boggling how the engineers get so much of everything. The game isn’t even subtle about how op the engineers are. It’s simply the best profession.

If you don’t believe me.. just ask yourself how many times some scrub said “oh u think you got me good huh? Don’t make me hop on my engi”

I can’t even do it man lol. The balance is a joke. It really is. It’s not even trying to pretend like there’s an even playing field between professions.

Engi definitely.

Mesmer comes in second.

And yes.. I will say elementalist. They have very good CC and can easily avoid all of your important skills and utilities thrown at them. They have amazing burst which means your chance for DS helping is very small.

O . o

Compaired to some of the other downed state skills (looking at dat engi) whats the point of this lil skill XD

I mean I really don’t remember it having this life-saving moment when I used it. It’s really not that helpful. It always feels like that final “eh! take that!” before I get stomped. lol

Is there maybe something else we can think of that might be more helpful? XP

well i added a small build above if it helps

////had to edit that lyssa lol

well you should use a support class like wells and staff / dagger+focus
something like 20/0/20/30/0
taking wellcdr, transfers, and well vamp in blood.

On the flip side you could run a weakness/poison build sorta con duration.

to edit he wells might be difficult since fears will force enemies out unless you do a pincer tactic where your brother fears towards you. Or you could just run support wells like well of blood, power, and darkness.

So to just give a complete example build for a support weller

20/0/20/30/0
spite: II, VII
curses: -
death: I. VII
blood: VI, VIII, VIII
Soul: -

Staff of leaching / Dagger of leaching + focus of energy

WoB, WoD, WoP, Epedemic, Plague

Soldiers (I would run clerics personally) + Runes of Dwayna

I thought that this might already be something in the works but just in-case I’d like to throw some of my own ideas out there.

Profession / Race (combo) elite.

The Idea: A new elite that is specifically tailored around both the profession and race of the character.

(examples)
Human Mesmer: Masquerade: Randomly switch the current location of up to 5 nearby enemies with each-other and cause confusion. Also switches your location with any currently active clones you have randomly.

Asura Mesmer: Marionette: Gain invisibility for x seconds and summon a giant golem. You gain new skills to control the golem. At the end of invisibility you summon 2 clones.

Char Warrior: Diesel Chain Pack: A metal pack lasting for x seconds continuously discharges hooked chains in a propelling motion on your flanks, damaging and bleeding enemies. (second activation) fire all chains. pulling up to 5 enemies closer to you.

Asura Necromancer: Necro Golem: Summon a giant life-force-powered golem, gaining bonus health based on your LF pool. If you are downed while Necro Golem is still active, you enter the golem through ethereal union, taking full control with new abilities, and adding all of your current lifeforce to the Golems health pool.

flow.6043:

TheDevice.2751:

Lol Btw all I gotta say is that Nemesis was just saying that since condition transfer is such a necro staple that fighting another necro can be an opportunity if you play your skills right.
…

And I argued that “another necro..” being the easiest opponent can only imply 2 things:

1. you believe that a 50/50 chance of winning against the same class is better than anything you could do against any other class, as in: the necro is the weakest profession of them all atm, which is simply not true.

2. You assume that your opponent is weaker than you. But any kind of argument involving “other class X players are less skilled than I am” is off topic.

You could explain why necro with build A beats necro build B, but a general statement “necro>necro” is either false or off topic.

:P well you could if you wanted to but it’s not neccessary since the OP is..

“What class is the easiest to kill as a necro?” not, “What class is the easiest to kill as a necro, and why do you think that?”

so since the OP did not include that the reply must explain themselves then its actually not off-topic to just give the name of a class.’

Lol Btw all I gotta say is that Nemesis was just saying that since condition transfer is such a necro staple that fighting another necro can be an opportunity if you play your skills right.

It is a mind game. Because you’re tying to time your skills and predict when they’ll transfer and so on.

I think his reply was pretty simple.. it was an opinion.. I really didn’t hear him say “Another necro.. because I am the best necro in the universe….”

My first thought when reading his post was “Seems fair..”

I do think that a good guardian can be trouble. At the same time a good necro can easily out-play me in a condition fight. But like he said, the OP asked and he answered. Why put words into his mouth?

He gave a simple opinion and you pounce on the guy like wtf lol xD

ArchonWing.9480:

Love WoP myself; it makes people stacking a bunch of conditions on you desirable.

until you get knocked outside the well.. sssssssss yeahhh… XD

Yo mama!!!!

<.<

>.>

ahem I mean… The correct answer would be the most complex. But the simplest answer is probably whoever has the least escapes or the one with the build which your build counters.

honestly I think axe 2 needs to be a non-target based attack. It should do the same animation at a fixed distance (600) and be a continuous cleave or small radius aoe.

But then most people would not like that XD. The problem I personally have is that axe 2 is easily avoided. It should work somewhat like the mesmers sword2 but mobile.

Even further suggestions could be that once the target is out of range the idea above could take effect. OR there could be a secondary activation to “free” the axe with the above effect.

I think if anything axe1 could be just as interesting. You could pretty much leave the innitial attack as it is in a sense. The attack could primarily be a melee cleave (200 range) with 2 red slashes firing out as projectiles (still 600 range with minimal damage and add vuln (no pierce)). Enemies hit in melee will take the full amount (melee + projectiles).

And though I love the idea of blase finishers built into a necro weapon (aside from staff4) I’m hoping that’s saved for DA HAMMA!!

So just to put it in gw2 format here’s my ideas:

Axe1: Commit two swipes with your axe, damaging enemies in front of you and send a pair of glowing red cuts in a line; each cut causing vulnerability.

Axe2: Command your axe to spin viciously at an enemy.
(secondary): Release your target from your attack and allow the blades to spin freely in front of you, damaging enemies. (cleave, channel)

Maesk.8753:

TheDevice.2751:

Maesk.8753:

Woah there, slow down a little. First, p/d has no smoke field, where am I getting that from? Am I running it as a utility instead of something actually useful? I guess the second blind is from the trait in shadow arts (blind on stealth), wheres the third from? Another utility? Basically the blinds you’re mentioning have nothing to do with a particular weapon set like you implied.

Unless you were mistaking p/d for d/p this whole time?

Second, I never said a condi fight against a necro was a good idea. Anywhere in my post. A condi fight against a necro is indeed a bad idea, why? Because of your full cleanse heal, high HP and condi transfers.

Third, That traits is actually really bad. Why would you ever run it when you could run vigorous recovery or fleet of shadow instead?

I never said it had a built-in smoke field. I said it has 3 potential blinds. Based on a utility sure. But you’re saying p/d has no blinds im saying it does. Like saying dhummfire has no effect since its in a trait line that provides no condition damage or crit chance.

You want to complain about what then exactly? The necro’s range on stacking conditions? Like… MoB? You don’t have enough dodges? Scepter auto attacks? Should necro’s also primarily stack conditions in melee range AND have the worst escapes and mobility in the game?

I never said thieves condi was melee range, I said thieves burst was melee range. At this point you’re just making stuff up.
Again, you seemed to imply that p/d had a lot of blinds, so by naming a particular weapon set, I figured you meant the blinds came from that weapon set.

To be fair, I was originally replying to nemisis, and you’re the one who started debating me. So what was it you were trying to achieve?

Anyway, since you seem to just make stuff up as you go along, and change your argument post to post. Im out.

Later taters.

blahhh my argument was dont like 3 posts ago idk what you’re on about. My simple point is that thieves don’t have it hard sry. I was defending dhummfire vs a thief who is obviously having trouble.

I never said p/d thieves had built-in blinds but you keep saying that for some reason. So who’s making stuff up. Well then you figured wrong just like I might have and just like these arguments go anyways XD

And I didnt originally debate with you you made a reply post to mine before I edited my original one with the added reply to yours. My post was towards the OP not you. So you’re making stuff up again. XD

Maesk.8753:

Woah there, slow down a little. First, p/d has no smoke field, where am I getting that from? Am I running it as a utility instead of something actually useful? I guess the second blind is from the trait in shadow arts (blind on stealth), wheres the third from? Another utility? Basically the blinds you’re mentioning have nothing to do with a particular weapon set like you implied.

Unless you were mistaking p/d for d/p this whole time?

Second, I never said a condi fight against a necro was a good idea. Anywhere in my post. A condi fight against a necro is indeed a bad idea, why? Because of your full cleanse heal, high HP and condi transfers.

Third, That traits is actually really bad. Why would you ever run it when you could run vigorous recovery or fleet of shadow instead?

I never said it had a built-in smoke field. I said it has 3 potential blinds. Based on a utility sure. But you’re saying p/d has no blinds im saying it does. Like saying dhummfire has no effect since its in a trait line that provides no condition damage or crit chance.

You want to complain about what then exactly? The necro’s range on stacking conditions? Like… MoB? You don’t have enough dodges? Scepter auto attacks? Should necro’s also primarily stack conditions in melee range AND have the worst escapes and mobility in the game?

Maesk.8753:

Sounds to me like you have literally no idea what you’re talking about. One thing to remember is that thieves burst comes from melee range. where as a necro can lay down a lot of condi burst from 900/1200 range.

So a condition fight vs a necro is a great idea. Who doesn’t play this game?

Also, no one runs that cleanse on dodge trait, want to know why? Because it only removes crippled and weakness. It’s actually a pretty bad trait.

Fair enough but still a decent trait since all of the necro’s best defense come form cripples and weakness. So your choice to think otherwise.

Maesk.8753:

Also, p/d using excessive blinds? Do you even play this game? p/d is the thieves condi set. It has quite low burst and kills via attrition. It also has no blinds built into the weapon set.

Do you even play a thief? Why would you make a point that it has no built-in blinds in the set? As if that’s some major point. It doesn’t need them built in since there are 3 potential blinds. Do you know what a smoke field is and a projectile finisher is? Am I suppose to be the one informing you?

Lawlll you mean a thief is complaining about necro damage. And dhummfire no less.

Pls.

Sorry you didn’t roll-cleanse out of the condition that only procs every 10 seconds.

Wait a second I get it. It’s because the thieves don’t have enough sustain or deal enough damage. Buff thieves especially p/d cuz they don’t blind enough times. Or tp enough. Or invis enough. lol

Maesk.8753:

Also, how can you even complain about that when necros have a heal that is also a full condi cleanse every 25 seconds?

ps. No need to be a sarcastic kitten .

OMG ikr! Cuz every 25 seconds we are allowed to cleanse all dem conditions after we go invis or invuln or slap on the stability. Pls dude lol. EVERY 25 seconds is a dream. Or just before you do stop and tell everyone not to CC you so you can heal. XD

Fine! T_T

Here is my main. Da lil lich baws.

First one is has a rather flamboyantly evil look. But yeh

The second one is my vampire (vpowerwells)

Well i’ll admit that it’s not all bad Bhawb like you say. And peeling does go a long way for a necro. But I tend to go lone ranger while hotjoined so what can I expect. It’s a good thing to be reminded for sure.

The few problems that I focus on does not completely destroy the class but does require the player to be a bit more on their toes imo. The good things about the necro I should also be more verbal about XD tbf.

Well I’ve said before that the weapon I personally would love to see is a hammer. Not for the CC or anything like that. But for some reason it would just seem cool to me. Like Innoruk in champions of norrath XD. Before then it never made much sense to me but seems cool.

Plus a 2h option would be great.

GS would be sweet too.

So.. I know I’ve been posting alot lately. I think this will be my last topic for a bit.

Imagine you are in a team with a mesmer a thief a warrior a guardian whatever…

Who’s going to get the focus fire?

Not the mesmer, too much time wasting on clones and invis…
Not the thief, too many invis dodges to bother with…
Not the war he has too much stability and mobility
Not the guardian, that’s like saying “focus the tank”. Too much sustain.

So who’s left? You. The big fat necro waiting to get pounded on. “the necro is the most dangerous if he’s left alone too long” NO freaking duh. Anyone is. Anyone who is not being attacked and is left to constantly do damage will be the one dealing most the damage… makes sense.

So I know even playing against any necro that thats the person to hit first. Why? Because he’s the EASIEST target. Not because im afraid of his damage. Or his aoe’s, which btw are constantly useless because my team is cleansing like crazy.

So when you say “gotta focus dat necro or else..” It’s not because of any or else… It’s because hes the easiest target of the bunch. He/she is the easiest one to kill. For all the health and all the blah blah, the necro is the one that will die first. Because he has nowhere to go and no way to defend himself properly.

This is just a simple truth. Right now there is an insane amount of condition cleansing. So most players go MM. Minionmancers are the only safe route to surviving a decent period of time. But you will still die first. You can only dodge twice… Your blinds are limited and not so life-saving.

Thing about our blinds. They are in the form of WoD, Dagger 5, Shadow fiend… And I think thats about it XD Which can all be dodged or maybe blocked aside from WoD which only lasts for 5 seconds every maybe 40 seconds. So blinds are not that reliable.

They’re now wanting to reduce the amount of weakness we can produce so there goes another hit to our defense. Our DS is near-useless unless you just spec all LF and just want to be present at the team fight for a while.

SO… yeah. There it is. Share your thoughts about it all even though we’ve been through it all many times before. XD

When you really just look at the necro they probably have the lowest sustain potential of any class in the game. Maybe they have the highest aoe potential but thats only if your enemies are like blunt objects, moving nowhere and picking their noses. Our aoe is incredibly easy to escape and all on high cooldowns.

The real theme here I want to relay the most is WHO ELSE? Who else are they going to focus? They cant land a successful hit on the rest of your team let alone see them. So who’s it gonna be. Oh, yes. The big doofus standing there all by his lonesome.

Our dps is good, but compaired to other classes its terribad. Our aoe is good but has so many counters its almost a blessing from grenth himself that they actually did what they are intended for. Our sustain is ok.. but lets face it; It’s also the worst in the game. Our mobility is the worst. Our cc is the worst. Our blah blah blah XD

I’m just ranting now I’m sure. But there you have it. Nailed to the ground as another post described.

And to say one more thing.. I get it. We can do well.. IF. And it’s a very big if. We don’t have an all-purpose build like every other class where you feel really safe whatever is thrown your way that you can handle it. No. Any build you choose there will be a very common counter (not a specific build or anything). But like I said, something like a mobile ranged dps, or a hard ccer, or a bunker, or another necro lol.

So while playing ive finally decided to make a post about nearly every skill having exquisitely long cast times and animations besides maybe wells. Most other classes i feel have these really quick/ instantaneous effects that allow 0 response time.

Even with your defensive conditions like blinds.. our OHd2 takes extremely long to even reach the enemy. So there’s no responding to a hammer war lunging at you unless your timing is flawless.

So many other things like focus 2. Whats with these really long cast times and whatnot. Look at the mesmers GS4 its like a normal swing lol. No cast time at all just blam. So not only are all our enemies suppose to see all our moves comming 2 weeks ahead of time, our defensive conditions take too long to do actually defend us.

I keep sensing this really strange paranoia or this like extreme cautiousness to the level of phobia that necos will perform really well. lol. I’m not even saying you cant do well with a necro. I’m saying that there is a huge microscope planted 24/7 over the necros, keeping a HUGE eye on anything that might make them strong in too many ways.

Like most other classes the only trouble they’re having is trying to scrape off the access overall power. Trying to touch up some of the strong points ya know bring em down a lil… but dw they will also buff something same patch on that class XD

but I think we’ve had our fair share of losing something without gaining anything in return. Shame. Sigh

Shooting jagged horrors… dis is my dream. XD

I like the jagged bones idea. It’s all about recycling XD Necromancers are natures helpers disguised in black.

For death trait line master or adept. Whenever one of your jagged horrors dies you gain protection (stacks per horror destroyed).

I know its trying to become less the minion trait line but still.

For Blood magic – Spoils of Death: Gain health each time one of your minions die.

idk im tired just wanted to share XD

Well my suggestion is to at least use rabid or settlers amulet with runes of undead. This would drop your HP a bit but increase your condition damage immensely. Also I’d swtich staff with scepter / focus.

The build right now seems a bit confusing. The main reason is 30 in curses. It’s mainly a crit/condition dmg line but the rest of the build seems more power based (choice of weapons, amulet, utilities, etc).

SrebX.6498:

jalmari.3906:

SrebX.6498:

jalmari.3906:

Nagato no Kami.4980:

This would take the “attrition” out of the “attrition class.”

Necromancer in it’s current form is in no shape of attrition class.

It is. It just falls short against Multiple opponents.
1v1 and even 1v2 we’re still a perfectly good attrition class

No offense but I think this rework is kinda stupid :\ it’s essentially the same thing, it doesn’t fix any problem, and it’s more complicated for no good reason …

I have to disagree with you. In my books about any other class with condition build can work out to be better at that. Necromancers defense might be more focused on defensive conditions like blind and weakness but that doesn’t make necromancer more attrition class than any other. Maybe I just look at it differently. Just for example go look for signet warrior with hammer and lb or something equally silly.

You’re not the first one to say that, and time and time again I’m surprised about how somehow people forget we have a 2nd HP bar…

That’s exactly what he’s saying. He’s not forgetting we have a second HP bar… he’s saying that other classes have access to “attrition” just as well or even moreso imo as necro’s. Attrition is not survivability, it is build-up. It’s compounding effects such as lifeforce, conditions, etc to increase your chance of winning the fight the longer the fight lasts. His point, what I believe, is that most of the professions have the same potential (in practice). If you CC somebody enough times, their skill output staggers which increases your chances over a period of time to win (ability use ratio weighing in your (the ccer’s) favor over time).

Health is not the only form of attrition. Just like boons are not the only form of defense; we instead have defensive conditions like blinds and weakness.

If the necro’s were truly an attrition class (the more time given to a necro will effectively make the necro tougher to bring down) it would be more noticable like DS being harder to diminish, or dealing more damage the more DS you obtain (not just for an above 50% threshold). It would be more pronounced. The way it is now, it is a defensive measure similar to blocking, going invulnerable, invisibility, etc only those defenses do not require build-up. Other professions are just as capable of increasing the likelihood of them winning a fight the longer the fight lasts as we do.

Like it’s been said even by Anet they can’t do something so grandiose. It’s just too much time and work (money) to completely rework this mechanic. It really isn’t so terrible tbh. The concept is balanced but the way it it performs isn’t. The slow speed and buggyness of DS2, the full cooldowns on interrupt.

Including the bug fixes and speed of DS2 I would really like DS5 to have a follow-up activation option to allow immediate immobilize/damage. This might seem unfair and I would agree if it wasn’t for the vast amount of CC/utility given to other professions. For opponents to have access to so much CC actually diminishes counter-play, not widening it.

Basically if opponents had half as many ways to counter the effectiveness of DS (immobilizes, stuns, dodging out of range, knockbacks, swiftness, teleports, etc) then there would be more cause for timing rather than spamming CC and still have plenty of avenues for defensive measures (whether it be a boon or offensive abilities)

Even if it was a trait, say along our spite line, that gave us the option of immediately ending our DS5 for it’s immobilize/damage to trigger (maybe even increasing the damage) that would make entering DS more appealing and useful apart from it just being a second health pool that might fear off an enemy for a second.

Nagato no Kami.4980:

Okay, first, guardians get 10 sec of protection on a traited 48 sec CD from Save Yourselves and 4 sec on 28 CD from Hold the Line.

Sure, wells occupy four slots and give only 12 seconds of protection which is not as good as the guardian. Having said that, wells do damage, blind, strip boons, heal and give stability. They can be further traited to chill and siphon health. Thus, protection is not their main purpose. While Guardians slot shouts for the boons, necros run wells for other things (devastating, zerg disrupting things) and protection is nice little addition that can be traited for.

Furthermore, necros get 9 on 48 CD from Spectral Armor and 7.5 on 36 from Spectral Wall. This is greater uptime on protection than the guardian skills, SWall can be a game-changing CC move and can give protection to AN ENTIRE ZERG! SArmor is the only form of protection that heals at the same time when up (life force gain is functionally a heal skill) and it’s a stunbreaker too.

I’m not saying that the absence of blocks, invulns and vigor isn’t kinda messed up. We can’t run so it makes sense that we can block a bit, right? Anyway, the fact is, these skills aren’t crappy. They’re not great for every build (well, SArmor pretty much is) but when employed correctly, they are pretty great.

-So 10 second prot only needing one trait, 5 second prot on a 35 second cooldown, shield 4 granting bout 5 of prot to you + allies on a 30 sec cd, mace 4 on a 15 second cooldown for 4.5 seconds of protection, hammer 1 on 3’rd auto attack grants a second and a half protection. And again this is not including all their other boons. And all easily accessible while maintaining high dps. They have support like no other class with the damage to back it up.

But you’r saying that 4 slotted utilities that our opponents can easily escape which will give us about 12 seconds of prot is better than that? Or the two spectral skills both needing 2 separate traits in two separate trait lines for best specs? This is equally if not better than guardians? XD

I mean I’m not even bothered too heavily obviously since I still go necro every game nearly. But imho I still believe they’re slacking. Saying that necro’s can only focus on one thing at a time but can do it pretty ok is not a pro lol. That’s still a con. If all other classes can perform multiple roles and do them well, then the necro is slackin XD.

Nagato no Kami.4980:

Brando.1374:

what defense? lol

we only have the ablility to tank dmg or lower the dmg done to us with weakness.
we have limited access to blinds, limited access to protection, no access to vigor, No Blocks.

Necros have Spectral Armor which can be traited to 9 sec on a 48 sec CD and 7.5 sec of protection when using Spectral Wall. They also have the ability to proc protection from wells of which you can slot four in total.

That’s a LOT OF PROTECTION.

If you use all said slots of wells you might come close to the 14 seconds of protection guardians can get from 1 skill on a 48 second cd.. which happens to be the same cd of the spectral armor which is 9 seconds on 48 second CD on two different traits.

If protection is our best defense why is it so crappy in comparison to professions who also have access to it as well as blocks, invuln, vigor, stability and so on?

It isn’t our defense. It’s the teams defense. Our job is to have the entire enemy team CC and do damage to us. This is making the rest of our team free to play the game.

What we need is more health. We need to be able to stand in one spot (not use any abilities) and get bashed in the face for at minimal 40 seconds. Our utilities should be innate effects that grant us extra health and we should substitute weapon skills for more health. If we can’t survive all the damage and knockdowns we take our teammates won’t have any fun.

XD fail attempt at troll but u get what I’m sayin.

youlostthegame.8102:

TheDevice.2751:

youlostthegame.8102:

Necromancer is a VERY easy class to play unless you play a power build in PvP.

I also like our damage in PvP…

Also to get use of your skills… use a stun-break spell.

Sick and tired of people moaning about ‘the state of Necromancers’ when it is easy to play one, we have good damage and OP spells like Plague Signet and Corrupt Boon…

Whats ur basis of comparison? Whats “good” damage? OP spells like plague sig and corrupt boon compared to what? When did I say I don’t run stun-breakers?

damage comparison is from SPvP 1v1 server

Imagine you spend a few seconds getting a target to maybe 15-20 bleed stacks and torment and poison and he sends them all to you on top of the bleeds he already gave you… Plague signet

Also if a player is running a build with a lot of might for example and they pop some CDs and get a good amount. Corrupt Boon takes them ALL!

I assumed you didn’t run Stun-Breakers when you were saying you get locked out of casting a spells. Lol dodge and Stun-Breakers are your friend.

What inspired this thread if you don’t mine me asking? PvE, WvW or SPvP/TPvP?

Thats all assuming your enemy freely lets you do all that. What happens when you dodge twice and use your said stunbreaker (now on cd) but your enemy still has enough access to cc to knock u down. Our stunbreakers are on a 48 potential cd. The cooldowns on hammers are less than that.

This is from an spvp standpoint. There is hardly any room for standing behind your zerg and spamming all of your conditions as in wvw. Fear locks are generally how mosyt necro’s get by or now the MM. So the conditions or dhummfire/terror are really only a recent addition. MM are said to be fun but i’ve never experienced that XD.

My original point is you are generally dodging less and using less skills over a period of time than your opponents because you cant possibly avoid every single hard cc that comes your way. So you get interrupted, causing a short cooldown, or stunned or whatever, gradually decreasing your skill output.

I never said necro’s don’t have stun-breakers or that we don’t do “good” damage. They do. But just playing a necro I can tell it’s not as ez as that. You don’t just “do” anything lol. One of the biggest reasons, I believe, Necro’s are really focused down so much is because they lack the tools to avoid that focus. If you were against a group of enemies even in pve do you focus the the one who has the best escapes or do u focus the one who cant get away and will take most of your hits?

youlostthegame.8102:

Necromancer is a VERY easy class to play unless you play a power build in PvP.

I also like our damage in PvP…

Also to get use of your skills… use a stun-break spell.

Sick and tired of people moaning about ‘the state of Necromancers’ when it is easy to play one, we have good damage and OP spells like Plague Signet and Corrupt Boon…

Whats ur basis of comparison? Whats “good” damage? OP spells like plague sig and corrupt boon compared to what? When did I say I don’t run stun-breakers?

Morbridae.8607:

Each time someone says “Necro is a crappy class”, I heard “you need to be a superb player to play a necro!”.

Yes, I want necros to be improved, a lot, and to have their niche in the game… but in the meantime, each time I win a match, I know that I did it with a highest difficulty level… and that makes me extra happy. XD

this.

exactly. Necro’s are the hardest class to play. I just got 40 seconds of poison stacks on me by 1 engi lol. And he was knocking me around and healed to near full health when he wanted. Elixer’d out of any cc i landed and just completely trolled.

I usually at least end up in the top 3 and do well for my team. But hands down necro’s is like playing with a handicap. It’s hell mode. But dem wins do make it worth it. You just have to be especially good, you cant waste 1 dodge, not one of your stunbreaks, you have to pay utmost attention to every detail.

Unless you spam fears lol.

The simple, real-play, realization I’ve come to is that necro’s have at the very least 50% less skills then other classes in combat.

Whilst fighting you are continuously knocked out of your abilities (thanks to 0 stability) which will reset them, Giving that +1 ability use to your opponent, and meanwhile their skill is already on cooldown and has most likely done damage to you, any other skills they are free to use on you you’re probably going to try to dodge and only twice (thanks to 0 vigor), if you do get a skill off the enemy will most likely have their available stability up and waiting for you.

Our so-called offensive playstyle is far more defensive (and a failure at defense) if anything. Enemies will have more ways to escape your hard cc than you do and will generally have more defensive measures all around. You will constantly be knocked out of skills you attempt to use.

The only solution is to run fear and hope for the best. Lol. Your enemy will be using far more of their skills than you will be able to. Most of them will be on cooldowns or be interrupted etc.

but in a closer look the R/P/S is more simply: Boons > CC > Boon stripping > Boons

I’m sure there’s a more elaborate chart at Anet HQ but that’s what i’m seeing.

This seems probably fairly obvious to most people XD but my defect is being under the impression professions were a bit more versatile than that. But seems a bit more simple. Sucks though to vs a war simply put.

See the downside to this method in THIS game is there’s no bans like there would be in other “pro” team pvp games. So getting stuck vs a bunch of wars when u have even 1 necro on ur team is just a nail in the coffin.

Moreso, this in fact will limit the team compositions very tightly finding only the most viable and even team compositions (unless you roll all warriors like i nthat one vid XD and trololol) But srslsy aside from any current stat mismanagement, It this is indeed their intention then I hope for the best but am a bit skeptical to say the least.

ok im understanding the r/p/s a bit more now. Ele’s beat warriors np. Warriors beat necros’ np. So necros should be beating eles np for all their boons. But its yet to be noticable. And with their meta shifting on next patch im sure that diamond skin wtvr will be more viable but who knows.

Ele > war > necro > ele? maybe? XD

I’ve asked this before in a thread somewhere. But I’d like somebody to tell me who the necro’s counter? What profession is the weakest and most helpless against a necro?

I realize this profession system is rock/paper/scissors (warriors being an hyper-counter against necros) but am still trying to figure out which profession the dev’s are fashioning to be extremely vulnerable vs necro’s.

Anyone?

what i find insanely hilarious about the “balance” in this game is that every class has some form of counter to the necro. Even a simple moa can throw you out of your elite or DS.

The most pivotal point I could relay is that our professions style of play is aoe (only accessible through our precious utilities unlike other classes who have aoe on their basic attacks) but every other class has ez access to stability making that aspect of our profession incredibly difficult to pull-off. Even if you succeed in a, say, dagger 3, your opponent will generally have plenty of stun-breaks to leave your wells or whatever.

On the flip side, we have absolutely little to no defense from any class’ style of play. We can throw poison on regen-happy rangers but they can remove said poison. We can cripple a theif as much as we want but they can just go invis or even dodge to cleanse said cripple. We can throw as much crap at a warrior as we want but they have zerker stance. we can do the same to a guardian but they just flip them to boons. Ele’s will soon have plenty of defense. Engi’s are just god mode 4ever. And mesmers are a cross between a thief and an ele, cleansing happily, stun-breaking with ease and going invis/invuln when they need to.

At the same time their damage output (in ACTUAL play) is far more potent than ours. It’s nice to say "In magic dream land where everyone does things the way you picture it in your mind and how the numbers look on paper, the necro’s are just fine and have some of the best damage output in the game ladada). But it’s just the opposite.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

nekretaal.6485:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

So, when necros only method of stopping a combo is a Fear that can’t affect you, how exactly is that balanced?

only… as if you cant dodge or sponge the hits with DS;

The combos that kills us from 100-0 are CC combos, Sponging with DS will not help. Fear is the only defense, other than two dodges (no vigor on the class).

Also, the necromancer has the worst regen, pressure heals in the game and our heals are on long cooldown. This means that unlike many other classes such as those classes that can use scholar runes, this class is usually far below 100% Heath at the start of fights. The only defenses are proactive conditions that can be cleared.

except we’re talking about ele here? which has… 2 hard CCs(? that i can think of in an x/d build… and the same on an x/f build) hardly a CC kill combo (you can sponge arcane s/x bursts from with DS if you get caught by CC easily; dagger burst is far less potent)

… also who uses scholar runes in pvp/wvw?

TheDevice.2751:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

… can get stability for 3s every 6s if you want it >.>

Gtfo out 3 seconds?!!? no way! thats like… 3 whole seconds!!! in a trait line that is lame as hell! YES sir! i will do that! thanks >.>

thats 50% stability uptime (when combined with near to death), you asked for stability grandmaster; we already have one… dont be an idiot

well im not an idiot. That’s 50% uptime with no added stun-break so ur not getting a good a deal as 100% uptime stability (requiring no stun-break in that case). I’m obviously making a very simple comparison and not qqing for stability.

If I could get 100% stability for as long as i had above 90% health it would be a far more useful GM trait, simply put. But we are not only not suppose to have that great of stability, the little stability we gain lacks stun-breaks and is a gm trait.

And if you used the trait in actual play you would see that it is not as simply as “50% uptime” like you say. It is on paper but in practice you soon realize you’re not getting the same deal.