Guild Wars 2

Psilence.2859:

And here I was excited to finally play necro again. RIP the dream. sigh

PvP should not be balanced around taking away good options from stat combinations… if a build is too strong, the offending skills should be balanced, or counterplay skills buffed, not good choices taken away from all builds so that the strong builds are forced into sub-optimal stats to “balance” them.

Necromancer needs those stat combinations to be on par with other professions.

Necro needs defensive stats.. other professions have blocks, invulns, evades, invis, etc. All we really have is DS and we need to build it up to make use of it. It also scales off our own vit.

Necromancer is probably the most stat-reliant profession in the game.

Zero.6592:

Was there even a single DH in the ESL? I don’t remember seeing any.

Again, Average of 6 DH in high diamond is telling of how strong this class is,

I’m not IN a pro league. I’m playing the game that Anet has devised for you and me. Not pro gamers. Those guys are all in a team and spend their lives playing this game. I’m just ranking and in the world of ranking (not the world of pro play), DH are the strongest most useful profession and is telling just by the sheer number of players playing DH in high Diamond and Legendary.

Struct.7453:

So your saying just play DH and win? Ha, you know the trap trick only works the first time. If you don’t learn then its natural selection…

The funny thing is people keep saying that but none of them must play necromancers.

CC + tRAps is death to any necromancer. The highest most precious comodity in this game right now is stability and necromancers have the least

Actually I just want to remind everyone what necromancers lack
- The least Stability in the game
- The least (zero) blocks in the game
- The least (zero) invulnerability in the game
- The least mobility in the game
- The least hard cc in the game
- The least healing in the game

I’m pretty sure I can go on. So maybe you’re right. Just don’t play necromancers this season is maybe what Anet is trying to tell everyone huh?

Oh and you’re comment means nothing when talking about objectives like Chieftain / Svanir and Lords.

EDIT: and another thing.

ITs funny that you bring up the exact same retort every other person brings up when talking about DH. I’m tier 7 Diamond and there are STILL full teams of DH. I’m sure when and if I get to legendary it will be even worse. 4+ DH a game. about 6 on average. This is not amber.

So what you’re saying is NOBODY has figured out how to not die by DH. Not even in Legendary. lol

Every objective is easy.

- Node control: Traps. Easy. Just sit in traps while having incredible amounts of block uptime
- Mobs / Objective: Chief / Svanir or enemy Lords on Foefire, it doesn’t matter. Place a ton of traps on them and they die like instantly. They can’t survive 5 seconds of 2 DH traps.

Anet has made it incredibly obvious that they want you to play DH this season. You can do everything. Enjoy that EZ obtained Legendary all you DH pros! <3 <3 <3 <3

competitive pvp is so fun and balanced in this game!

Lahmia.2193:

TheDevice.2751:

Lahmia.2193:

Currently only 2 of the 5 Necromancer wells have a damage value. Power, Darkness and Blood do not, therefore not triggering the life steal from Vampiric and Vampiric Aura. I suggest Anet adds a damage value to those 3 wells.
Well of Blood and Power should get a damage value similar to Choking Gas – 73 (0.2).
Well of Darkness should get the same damage as Well of Corruption – 798 (0.5). It is currently the worst Necro well and deserves some love.

they actually all trigger the vampiric effects.

They only trigger the Vampiric Rituals life steal. Not the Vampiric or Vampiric Aura life steal.

hmm you’re right. this is a bit uncool…

Lahmia.2193:

Currently only 2 of the 5 Necromancer wells have a damage value. Power, Darkness and Blood do not, therefore not triggering the life steal from Vampiric and Vampiric Aura. I suggest Anet adds a damage value to those 3 wells.
Well of Blood and Power should get a damage value similar to Choking Gas – 73 (0.2).
Well of Darkness should get the same damage as Well of Corruption – 798 (0.5). It is currently the worst Necro well and deserves some love.

they actually all trigger the vampiric effects.

zxstanyxz.8769:

TheDevice.2751:

xeonage.1253:

TheDevice.2751:

xeonage.1253:

ar…. When MM nec vs mes / engineer …. ONCE moa , NO more just ONCE!
OK, then what will happen?

Then you get mad and switch to conditions.

so that’s mean NEC just have one choice – Conditions

I actually would say that that is true but of course you’re just going to get so much flak from numerous people who want to defend stuf just for the sake of defending.

I’ll say that if you decide to go power, the only acceptable / viable way is minionmancer.

minionmancer hasn’t been viable since they nerfed “Rise”

Oh wow so we’re really settling on just one playstyle here for necromancer. Thats even worse than I thought lol. Welp. There it is.

xeonage.1253:

TheDevice.2751:

xeonage.1253:

ar…. When MM nec vs mes / engineer …. ONCE moa , NO more just ONCE!
OK, then what will happen?

Then you get mad and switch to conditions.

so that’s mean NEC just have one choice – Conditions

I actually would say that that is true but of course you’re just going to get so much flak from numerous people who want to defend stuf just for the sake of defending.

I’ll say that if you decide to go power, the only acceptable / viable way is minionmancer.

xeonage.1253:

ar…. When MM nec vs mes / engineer …. ONCE moa , NO more just ONCE!
OK, then what will happen?

Then you get mad and switch to conditions.

Silv.9207:

I played different builds in this season. Sigil, corruption, MM, hybrids between them, “bunker” and direct damage vith different builds (really funny the unblockable GS/axe+focus build against DH, you take them down really easy with a single hit, but you’re not really able to do other things than that) . All exept the “bunker” work more or less at the same level, if you practice a little. The only problem is that in this meta all work bad XD

The necromancer totally lack of defensive abilities that grant him to survive to a direct enemy assoult. We have more or less the same defensive abilities as 3 years ago, with Rise! and a little more of stability by reaper Shroud and the elite shout. Even the Spectral Armor got nerfed with an internal cooldown of 1 second, making it not good enough in this meta 8still if the devs keep it bugged and working while in Shroud, for pure mercy).

I like the necromancer playstyle and will continue to play it, but a little way to defend my hp in an active way other than build up LF (that also force us to use the staff) will not be a bad thing.

they wont add any more defenses to necromancers. They wont since they figure there are only two playstyles for them Minions and Conditions. Minions already add so much defense they cant add anymore.

Im telling you facts.

MethaneGas.8357:

Condi necros don’t have to use just 1 build to be viable tho…
But yes, Necros are prone to being anally assaulted left and right when you have a bad team
Meanwhile roll Druid or DH and play with one hand while your other hand slides up and down the keyboard and voila, solid gameplay.

When I say builds im really talking about playstyles. Necromancer only has two playstyles. Minions or Condition spams. Thats it.

Its like I said, with guards, I can play like a kittenin or a bunker or battlemage or support or offensive support or anything. So many options. And Its SO NICE to be able to use my abilities lol You have no idea. All the stabilit,y all the blocks, far less telegraphs and cast times. Im in heaven.

Saiyan.1704:

TheDevice.2751:

Guardian: I’m going to deal 1000000000 damage to you in the span of like 2 seconds while I am invuln, blocking, healing, dodging block. block block block invulning for a good 20 seconds. Our weakest build is burn gaurd…… the WEAKest is a build that can 100-0 you in a matter of seconds while we block everything and teleport to anyone we want.

This just in, Burn Guard is new “OP Plez Nurf 100-0 class” lol….

Can’t take you seriously… Guards can block for 5 seconds on F3 + 3 second Elite + 5 seconds of F3 again.
That’s a solid 13 seconds of “invuln” but we only have 1 viable instant cast trap during that time. Where’s this OP damages during invulns again???

On second thought, I actually think you’re right. Guards are actually in a good spot right now. DH just has a larger build pool and some cool playstyles which is why a lot of people are picking it up.

After those blocks guards are pretty fragile for the most part depending on the build. I agree with you man.

The devs promote the most passive and mindless gameplay ive ever seen in a game wich for some reason also has a really cool combat system. They don’t use the combat system they created. They just use the old tab target / spammable skills. Any build that tries to really get some use out of gw2 system is just beat by incredibly easy and spammable builds.

I’ve been trying so freaking hard to play GS power necromancer in pvp XD. I’ve gotten to diamond and I’ve just realized why GS power necromancer will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER be a thing. Because ANY power build is going to run FULL MINIONS. Its the EASIEST, MOST MINDLESS build ever. Essentially, you are playing pve. Thats it. I’ve been doing all this work lolol all these skillful mechanics ive been trying so kitten hard to learn and get better with and its just never rewarded in this game.

This game promotes spam. Condition spam or minion spam. Those are your choices necromancers. Get used to them. Its simple. It’s for simple brains. A or B. Devs even make the builds easy. A = Easy condition spam or B = Easy minion spams.

I’ve actually figured it out. This is the devs mindset. This is it. Necromancers will NEVER get any stability, active defenses such as blocks, evades, invuns, etc…. BECAUSE OF MINIONS. Thats it. And because of conditions. EVERYTHING ELSE DOESNT MATTER. Those are the two choices. Ez. Done. A or B. Thats the entire freaking class for pvp. Thats the full extent.

I’ll now never wonder why we cant get nice things. Cool playstyles. Cool GS builds with cool mechanics. The reason is because devs will just say “Oh, on a minionmancer/condimancer; thats going to be too strong” Thats IT. THATS ALLLL necromancers are. TWO freaking builds. THATS IT. Goodbye lol I’ve fully lost hope in this class to be anything interesting in pvp.

I actually feel kinda dumb lol. I really bought into the whole dynamic build system as if there was more to it. There isn’t. There’s 2 builds for necromancers. Thats essentially all there is. Conditions or Minions. Holy cow. I have to admit.. ive been playing the wrong class lol. I thought I could push the boundaries a bit and find some really cool stuff in there but nah lol. All that hard work.

I first realized it when I played DH last week. An entirely different experience. I can go conditions, bunker, play like an assassin, lay traps, go melee power, ranged power, have some cool teleports, some dashes i mean whatever lol. And some really nice tech built into the class, the devs really did a nice job with stull like the guardians LB3. Awesome.

Anyways. GL necros. tc.

Guardian: I’m going to deal 1000000000 damage to you in the span of like 2 seconds while I am invuln, blocking, healing, dodging block. block block block invulning for a good 20 seconds. Our weakest build is burn gaurd…… the WEAKest is a build that can 100-0 you in a matter of seconds while we block everything and teleport to anyone we want. And block everything. And plus we block everything. AND, we heal like crazy. We don’t even have to build ANY freaking healing power and will healy close to 2000 health per ability cast. And we have an F3 to heal us also. And we keep healing. Stupid necros have to hit multiple enemies just to get anywhere close to the kinds of heals we get just by clicking a button. get rekt silly necros!

Necromancer: im going to give you a bunch of conditions which will gradually tick damage on you over about 20 seconds, just don’t cleanse them. Oh and try not to attack me because i’ll probably die before i cast any of my spells since they take eight days to complete. Plus, Im a condition bot and cant do anything except use conditions. The class is actually called the Conditioner. Like the stuff you use in the shower. *We also have a skill that lets our attack become unblockable BUT ALL OF OUR ATTACKS ARE SO FREAKING SLOW that it actually only allows like one good attack in there.. IF YA DONT CC US!! XD_TXDT__T-_-T-T_T_T_T (crying and laughing) Also, we only have HEALTH as a defense. Just.. whatever you do: Dont focus us please. And please don’t CC us because we have like zero stability and our elite utility gives us some stab but you can just cc us our of our cast to stop us from getting any stab. Isn’t this fun !?!!? (you can easily tell no devs play this class and honestly i don’t blame them)

Ranger: I’m just going to heal, root, heal, root, attack from halfway across the map, heal, root, and let my mini boos AI pet do most of the work cuz actual kiting is too hard.

Warrior: invulnerable. Perma invuln. We can use conditions or just go straight power or do whatever we want. Thanks anet. we heal every second no matter if we’re getting hit or not we just always heal and keep healing and we can disengage and heal and engage and heal and go invuln and deal insane damage and heal every second and block.

Rev: I do my one move to become invuln AND deal insane damage to your face. Ty anet!

Mesmer: Conditions and invisibility and millions of clones and invis and blocks and you cant even hit me and you have conditions on you and im invis and teleporting and blocking and invis again and giving you more conditions and shatters clones and more clones and my face is smeared across my keys

Thief: Hi im evading and dealing you tons of damage while im evading and going stealth and evading and dealing a;lkdfjas;ldkjg;alhkja;lhkj

Updated

/15charasfkalkdfjgk

KickzNGigglez.4958:

TheDevice.2751:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Bladed_armor_(light)_norn_male_front.jpg

Apparently it only covers it on female

I think the cover is fairly reasonable. I don’t even notice much skin at all with the mask and chest piece. We also have to keep in mind we’re talking about light armor and not full metal plate armor here.

edit: still probably one of the most armored up light armors in the game

It’s somewhat covered, I’ll agree. Many other chest pieces (even ones that have zero metal at all) have more neck covering

Cabalist Coat
Seer Coat
Vestments of the Lich
Flame Legion Vestments
Profane Greatcoat

So its not really about it being some kindof full set of heavy armor or anything. Just that the neck from about the throat to the jaw isn’t really covered. Thats all im saying. But its no big deal lol.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Bladed_armor_(light)_norn_male_front.jpg

Apparently it only covers it on female

Any chance the devs could add neck-covering to the Bladed (Light) Vestments?

I mean, it just kinda looks exposed and weak. XD

IDK if there was maybe some kinda petition to make that little change I would try to since some people might like it the way it is.

Well of Oblivion

Grants 1 second of might to allies and 1 second of bleeding to enemies every pulse.
Every three seconds, the well will shrink and will knock back enemies near its edge. The third time it shrinks it erupts dealing massive damage.
Radius 480
Duration 9 seconds
Combo field: Dark

OR

Well of the Dead

Each pulse grants allies stability. Whenever an ally or enemy dies within the well the duration of the well increases by 1 second (max 10 seconds).
Duration: 10 seconds

Damage X
Radius 520
If you die while Well of the Dead is active you become a Poltergeist Projection (transformation) with new skills and lasts the duration of the well.

Poltergeist (has three skills sorta like Plague)
- Cannot leave Well of the Dead’s area of effect.
PP1: Lung at your enemy, dealing damage
- 1.2: Claw at your enemy, causing cripple.
PP2: Scare – Become invisible for 2.5 seconds. Reactivate to teleport to target enemy; fearing them.
PP3: Spectral Vengeance – Return your spirit to your body, knocking back enemies in your path and cause an aoe eruption once your reconnect with your body.

Obtena.7952:

You lost me: You’re asking me if Guardians getting retaliation and blocks makes sense. I don’t get how that relates to necros getting blocks as a defensive mechanism. There is no relation between tools that Guardians have and tools that Necros have. None.

If necros are supposed to take damage and they only have a few stills that validate that concept, then to me, the fix to whatever problems they have (or any other class for that matter) is to enhance the skills they already have so they are more effective … but I’ve already said that twice in this thread so … we agree?

I’ll extend an olive branch to you my friend.

If we are supposed to take damage;

1: Revert Rise! nerfs (or some of them)
2: Give us way more stability. Like we should have the most stability in the game (not the least)
3: Give us way more retaliation

This would be nice actually.

Obtena.7952:

You lost me: You’re asking me if Guardians getting retaliation and blocks makes sense. I don’t get how that relates to necros getting blocks as a defensive mechanism. There is no relation between tools that Guardians have and tools that Necros have. None.

If necros are supposed to take damage and they only have a few stills that validate that concept, then to me, the fix to whatever problems they have (or any other class for that matter) is to enhance the skills they already have so they are more effective … but I’ve already said that twice in this thread so … we agree?

No you didn’t get my point. Retaliation doesn’t even work while you are blocking. Guards can have retaliation up while also blocking which makes no sense yet is completely okay by the devs. So when you say it doesn’t make sense that blocking shouldn’t be allowed on necromancers; Where are you deriving this notion? What are you basing it on? Just your own personal beliefs?

I already stated before that Engineers have plenty of blocks yet have zero traits that involve effecting blocks. If this is okay, why isn’t it okay for necromancers? Thieves can block for crying out loud lol.

So whats the problem?

Obtena.7952:

Yes, again, you can think of all kinds of ways to reinvent the class with blocks. That’s a highly unrealistic scenario in terms of implementation. The most likely implementation of any defensive improvements are going to be along current strategies already part of the class skillset. I’m not here to discuss what could be done because anything could be done. I’m here to talk about what makes sense and is most realistic for the class concept as it stands 4 years into an established game.

What might be a more palatable suggestion is an elite based spec that has some ability to block, but again, how would blocks be integrated into the class through just an elite spec? It would be pretty lame.

Right, so this is the reason that this class is being held back by its own theme.

Corrosive Poison Cloud was changed not to long ago to give the skill more purpose and add more defense to the necromancers kit. This type of change is what we’re talking about.

I’ll tell you what the problem is. Necromancers are supposed to take damage. Thats the mindset of the devs. The issue is that only a few skills on the necromancer actually validate that concept. Spectral armor, spectral walk, and signet of vampirism (which is a somewhat recent addition). That’s all. You know the real kicker?: we only have ONE ability that gives retaliation XD. Are we not in the hands of madmen?

We have one trait that adds retaliation (essentially the same skill) which can be blocked; giving us nothing. If they evade or go invuln or dodge we get nothing. Guards have plenty of traits that provide retaliation and don’t even have to rely on hitting something to get it. They just get it. They have more access to retaliation and the most access to blocks. Does that make sense?

Obtena.7952:

Silv.9207:

Obtena.7952:

The deficiency with block is that I can kill it with a crap attack. You don’t get to choose what attacks you block, it’s completely random. Blocks are not the amazing things people think they are. If you’re LUCKY, your block eats something good.

What if I active it when the enemy try to burst me down with his best shot?

Sure what if you do, you eat one attack of a burst. We all know how blocks work and can imagine all kinds of scenarios. Again, that doesn’t indicate that blocks are a good defense for Necros.

My point is simple … no part of the necro toolset supports blocking, so even if they got a block like Guardians have, I think it wouldn’t be a good defense for them. It’s just a thoughtless add on to the class because someone sees it work well on Guardians. Implementation is so critical for ideas to work with a class; you see that now with life siphons. Life siphon could be great too but it’s not implemented in a way that makes it anymore than a weak, permanent regeneration.

Okay then we should remove all the abilities that give Engineers blocks. Engineers have 2 weapons skills and a few utility skills that add blocks but they get no traits that have anything to do with blocking.

So your point is invalid. The point of my original statement isn’t “because guardians get blocks”, it’s simply because we have no blocks at all. Blocking can do more than what vitality can do. Blocks can stop the effects and conditions of an entire skill. Duration blocks can stop all incoming (non-unblockable :P) attacks and skills thrown your way.

The other stuff is just my own frustrations with this profession lol. Especially the idea that we are attrition.

Every class can perform strong no matter how many enemies are near them while necromancers require multiple enemies to get the most bang for their buck (the buck being most of their skills). Just aint right man.

EDIT: and another thing; Just because we have traits that work off blind or vuln doesn’t mean other classes cant use blinds or vuln just because they have no traits that work off them.

These are the changes I would make to your build. (Rabid or Carrion actually)

I’ve always liked the idea of a poisonmancer but its hard to choose putrid defense over flesh of the master. The changes I made I think add better burst damage overall.

Saiyan.1704:

TheDevice.2751:

Saiyan.1704:

TheDevice.2751:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

We both know exaggeration won’t help with your argument, it only makes your statement look like an emotional regurgitation.

Neither does comparing cross class, if you find that necro skill underpower, then state improvement. If you find LB3 OP, then state it truthfully what part is OP rather than “one skill that killed every enemy on map and unblockable and can’t avoid”.

Define the word balance. If you’re not comparing what is your method of balance? If you’re not comparing or examining the whole, how are you balancing. How do you balance something without another thing as a counterweight.

You’re really not taking your own advice here. You’re comparing only two classes when there’s 7 other classes to take into account.

To make your argument worse you’re even comparing their weaponry which are completely different. You express these two very wrong points in a way that makes this thread laughable, instead of what could have been a reasonable post.

Then nobody can make the claim a class is underpowered or overpwered. Claiming something is underpowered is claiming it is inferior to something else, yet people do it all the time.

So when guards were underpowered.. they actually weren’t. So if th.. -
-snip-

You’re doing a poor troll job on turning people’s words around… you’re just babbling semantics here and it’s not amusing.

When there’s complaints about a class being under or overpowered, it’s usually backed up by more than one reference.

How am I turning your words around? Explain yourself please.

So, where were these “references”? Where they just other people claiming something is underpowered (probably guards), and if so, doesn’t that make guardians overpowered now? …..since there are so many people (except for guards) saying it is?

Or is there actual data? Actual in-depth reasoning. The sort of reasoning you just expected from me. Wheres all that at? Keep in mind; none of the reasoning can be a point of comparison. So if somebody said “guards are too weak this month cuz our [insert mechanic] isn’t good enough.” This is not adequate since it is inherently comparative. So where’s the plethora of reasoning?

Again, just to be sure you understand; it cant involve anyone saying that they don’t do enough damage or are dying too fast. Because thats comparative.

Lucentfir.7430:

This comparison makes total sense. A ranged weapon skill that pushes back people requiring a trait and having to aim the skill as well, compared to a melee weapon with a cone pull, that’s designed to bring people into melee range. Lets not forget that LB3 can only hit targets on the same path elevation, while GS5 for necro can pull people off from higher elevation. I have a hinting suspicion the OP is trying to disguise this thread as something that it really isn’t. Based on the edit.

Here comes another guardian…

Do you even play guardian? LB3 can actually change elevation during its course.

Yeah, one is ranged and the other is melee. So what? Whats your actual point there though. Finish the thought.

Guard LB3 Multi-hit unblockable attack that can change elevation and CC multiple enemies while destroying incoming projectiles and blinding everone it hits and has a 10 second cooldown. Now think of all the other skills used by a guardian, all the other skills on the LB etc.

Necro GS5 Multi-hit blockable attack that can change elevation and CC multiple enemies while chilling them. Has a 30 second cooldown. (also gets really buggy when determining the FREAKING PATHING (lol) when using action camera. Why does the Gaurds LB3 get to have the freedom of ground targeting. Why not also make it work the same way as GS5?)

So yeah, I still think its obviously bs.

BTW: you’re talking about CC’ing multiple enemies every 10 seconds which is UNBLOCKABLE. I mean whatever I’m loving it right now playing DH lol. But please, continue your defense. Not like you and the other guards weren’t complaining about them being underpowered a while ago.

How did you know guards were underpowered, if I may ask? You did think they were underpowered right? I’d like to hear your explanation.

And, I edit because I have a tendency to want to add something or find that I mispelled a word. Not really sure what you were trying to suggest in that comment.

Saiyan.1704:

TheDevice.2751:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

We both know exaggeration won’t help with your argument, it only makes your statement look like an emotional regurgitation.

Neither does comparing cross class, if you find that necro skill underpower, then state improvement. If you find LB3 OP, then state it truthfully what part is OP rather than “one skill that killed every enemy on map and unblockable and can’t avoid”.

Define the word balance. If you’re not comparing what is your method of balance? If you’re not comparing or examining the whole, how are you balancing. How do you balance something without another thing as a counterweight.

You’re really not taking your own advice here. You’re comparing only two classes when there’s 7 other classes to take into account.

To make your argument worse you’re even comparing their weaponry which are completely different. You express these two very wrong points in a way that makes this thread laughable, instead of what could have been a reasonable post.

Then nobody can make the claim a class is underpowered or overpwered. Claiming something is underpowered is claiming it is inferior to something else, yet people do it all the time.

So when guards were underpowered.. they actually weren’t. So if they get nerfed, all is fine. My point is the obvious state of your complaints with my comparison. It’s a back-to-the-wall end-all argument that can only be used when there is nothing to actually defend with.

Your statement can be used FOR EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT OF IMBALANCE EVER. So right now, elementalists are fine. Guardian Hammer is fine. If Guards get nerfed, they are FINE. If all their damage, all their blocks get nerfed, they are fine cuz… balance. Why complain about lack of blocks? Lack of health? Lack of anything when there is an entire game with all its date and intricacies to counter with. How do you know Guards were underpowered at any time ever in this game? Maybe you were just bad. Maybe all guards were just bad. Maybe elementalists are perfectly okay right now. Maybe they’re too strong for all we know. Nobody seems to be able to list every single ability in a 300 page data filled report as to how it is underpowered.

Where was their 300 page reasoning explaining every single intricacy of balance that lead to their decision? Hippocrates. I think I’m one of the least laughable ones here.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

If you can’t explain every detail then unfortunately you can’t give a balance idea. That’s the very reason why comparing two skills cross class is a terrible idea.

Not even the devs can explain in every detail. So there goes your logic again. You can only determine the best you can by viewing the entirely of the power budget. If for some reason you can’t see how much better that skill is than it’s your lack of understanding, not mine.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Again, you’re looking it like its an FPS. Balance is never about putting two objects on a scale or a set numeric IQ test in MMORPG, where you say one skill is superior than other because its heavier.

You need to considers every single aspects of characters, from simple base stats difference and synergy between skills, to more sophisticated things like class mechanics and roles in a teamfight. What you do is comparing apples with oranges and say orange is absolutely better because it has more vitamin C. Your example only serves this by dumbing the dynamic aspects of balance down to narrow minded Yes/No questions. Comparing two skills from different class only stops you from looking at the bigger picture, because the very nature of MMORPG focuses on class differences and how classes can compensate each other’s weakness and strength.

Then you’re just assuming I haven’t taken into consideration the usage / stats / mechanics / roles / etc. By the way, you are openly admitting that you have to balance by looking at the other classes. There is no way of getting around that.

Everything about that skill on that weapon on that class is better in every way than the usage and strength of the GS skill on that class. It would actually take way too long to try to explain in every detail, which not even the devs can do, how it is better.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

We both know exaggeration won’t help with your argument, it only makes your statement look like an emotional regurgitation.

Neither does comparing cross class, if you find that necro skill underpower, then state improvement. If you find LB3 OP, then state it truthfully what part is OP rather than “one skill that killed every enemy on map and unblockable and can’t avoid”.

How do you define balance since I feel like i just fell into an alternate universe where some things don’t mean the same things they should.

Define the word balance. If you’re not comparing what is your method of balance? So far, my exaggerated example perfectly conveys your side of the argument. If you’re not comparing or examining the whole, how are you balancing. How do you (i dont think im going to be able to say this in many more ways) balance something without another thing as a counterweight. How do you think balancing works?

Thus far, your idea of balance is looking only at one thing, determining its strengths with zero consideration of anything around it.

Here’s a better example. When you take an IQ test…. why do you think there are grades. Why do you think that when you are placed above 200 IQ, you are considered really smart? I’ll tell you why: its because they are comparing you to everyone else who’s taking an IQ test. You cant walk up to a baby, test their IQ, never test anyone else in the world and then send that baby into the field of science because you think they are smart enough. The only reason you might think they’re smart enough, is because you have no clue how smart anyone else is because you have no basis for comparison.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

why don’t you play FPS games?

No seriously, comparing cross class is one of the worst idea in MMORPG…

Right so if i had a profession that with one skill killed every enemy on the map and it was unblockable and you couldn’t avoid it at all and it won me the game instantly.. that would be okay right? Cuz why not? Oh because you’re class can’t do that? Well stop comparing. XD

Holy wow.

Guard LB3
So, traited, the LB can knock back all them enemies he hits. The skill is also ground targeted which is super cool and has a range like a mfker. It also casuses blind and eats up any projectiles on the way increasing damage when doing so. It also has a 10 second cooldown XD It’s also unblockable. Actually unblockable.

Now lets move to that Necro GS5. My god. I had no idea. Like i know the GS is bad. Sure. But I had NO IDEA how bad. Like its nothing. NOTHING compared to DH elite weapon.

Necro GS5
First off, 30 second cooldown lol. Is not unblockable, has a short range, applies only chill and a knockdown. Wow. Holy wow.

Now, you’ll probably say “l2p issue. Durpdedurp.” or “Different weapons/class are different.”

The only real argument that can be made is that there is a balance among the weapons that sorta go from the low recharge/weaker skills to higher recharge/stronger skills.

But this is the thing: THE DH weaker skill is STRONGER than the DH "strong"high recharge skill. By alot. By a real lot. The skills are not even in the same ballpark. one is just better all around. There’s no argument. There’s nothing you can say to defend this. Its just imbalance. One is just better. Done.

Anyways. Oh, and for some reason GS5 still cant get ground targeting. Just nah. Dont want to waste time on adding some nice tech to necromancers like they do other classes XD

BTW: I am playing DH now. Its… it’s unreal.

Muchacho.2390:

Wisee.7894:

I agree with everything you said besides necros, I play a necro and i find it easy to hit for 600k + damage in a match just use the right build they can hit for as much damage as any class just they have the added survivability if you swap between condi transferring lich form and obviously going into shroud i only really ever die if im ganked. they certainly need to buff ele because it has ok damage with no survivability making them super easy to kill with basically every class. honestly i would prefer playing an ele that was just as glassy but had far more power so they could compete with the other classes in damage dealt even if they were still as vulnerable it would be far more fair

Wtf you use Lich Form for survivability? Wow… that skill used to be a power damage cooldown (not defense i may add) now only pver use it for the minions in viper builds (lol). Honestly i cannot imagine how Lich form could save you from decent players…

Well grim specter is certainly not bad, i dont think it is worth taking lich form just because of that skill.

he has no clue what he’s talking about. Ive never seen anyone say they use Lich form for survivability. Some people just like necros to be underpowered is all.

He hits for 600k damage lol on lich form. XD XD XD XD what? Who is this guy really. Really though. Aye, you play your lich form and i’ll just block everything when i play guard ok? I’ll destroy your lich form “survivability”

Goongrave. Helped me reach Diamond

Or at least the one on spiteful spirit since you’re already losing so much 1v1 potential by not taking close to death. This is a no-brainer imo.

Ithilwen.1529:

So here’s my suggestion; make one relatively easy to play build on each class rather than asking players to chase the bandwagon.

This has been my dream ever since this game was released.

I think there should be a variety of levels of difficulty depending on the build within each class. Every class should have an easy mode build while also having more high reward/high risk builds.

And thats really the definition of “easy” tbf is just more “consistent”. Playing a DH is just more consistent and is why most people are playing them.

Silv.9207:

Make an example: Celestial can be played by Elementalists.
You will bring back the only reason they’re no more meta.
Also you will bring back the bunker meta.

I’m happy about this meta, still if I’m a main necro. I would really like to play the Celestial Build on my reaper, but that amulets bring too much bunkers in this game.
We already have a lot of hybryds and DPS bunkers in this game.
We don’t need more.

I don’t know if I explained it poorly or not, but that example is the reason for this suggestion. Your example is an example of what not to do. lol. The entire purpose of the suggestion is to keep certain amulets out of certain professions hands while allowing others to use them.

I hate to always create such negative posts at Anet. I’ve said some pretty unhelpful things but I always try to redeem myself and add something constructive. This idea isn’t even fully my own idea (obviously) but is somewhat of a common resolution to balancing itemization in other games where the item pool becomes a little more specific concerning who can buy what (melee/ranged-only items, etc).

The reasoning is because an amulet might be really strong on one profession but might be fine on another while offering more build diversity on that other class as well. Removing the amulet because its too strong on another class will hurt the build diversity of the class it wasn’t op on. (if that makes sense)

So to just make things easier on he devs to add some build diversity and keep certain professions in check, just make certain amulets available to certain professions. Afterall, “Different classes are different”

Example

Profession A
Profession B
Profession C
Profession D

Celestial Amulet can be used by A and B
Clerics Amulet can be used by B and C
Soldiers Amulet can be used by C and D

And whatever makes sense for that class. Maybe soldiers can be used by only one profession or maybe it can be used by three professions. However the balance team sees fit.

NOTE: this doesn’t mean we have to categorize all Amulets by profession. The majority of amulets should still be nonrestrictive (as they are now/available to all professions).

And for ease of access, just make another category tab under amulets called “Profession” which will list all the amulets your profession can use that might be restricted to other professions.

Guardians

Can be completely invincible for 15 seconds whenever they want. Blocks, invuln, blocks, etc, while also dealing as much damage as they want. They also have perma stability and may heal up as much as they want.

Warriors

Nearly the same as Guardians except they will cc you to death if you have no stability (see necromancers). They can disengage and re-engage whenever they please all the while healing 400 hp a second with no downtime.

Elementalists

Got the nerf hammer into uselessness this season. At anet, emotional balancing is the only balancing. Feelings are more important than straight balance and everyone still feels the sting from when they were broken. But since Anet cant modify classes for pvp specifically, they romove entire amulets from spvp (which might also completely ruin other builds for other classes that were not overpowered) like a messy smear across all professions.

Mesmers

More condition bots but are also stealth bots and clone bots and mobility bots and probably the most annoying class in any game ever. They can deal passive condition damage while being completely safe from harm. Yey…

Rangers

Rangers were bad for a while so more emotional balancing here. Their range and five hour roots make kiting ez pz.. since you dont even have to kite. Why make things hard? Healing is a rangers speciality, just like ranged damage, and cc, and invulnerability, and mobility, and etc.

Engineers

Wait, engi’s didn’t have everything the last time devs checked so they gave them moa just to insure minionmancers know their place while being completely absolved from the same side-effects of transformations (turrets). Their speciality is everyting. They are fast, durable, cc heavy, can block, go invuln, do it all.

Necromancers

Gets focused in the beginning of the fight and will probably die in 5 seconds. Has zero blocks, zero invuln, zero evades but has to build up more life as time goes on but only through a limited set of skills/traits. They have the worst access to stability, they cant stealth and are not mobile. They have some of the most telegraphed skills in the game. They do use conditions though.

Hate to be such a downer lol but srsly man. What is going on with this game? There are several things im very happy with that anet has done especially with necromacners. It just always comes back to this place where anet makes these really strange decisions concerning balance and It only hurts them.

So many classes are absolved from being susceptible to the negative aspects of the professions thematics yet necromancers are not.

Guards can be plaed like assassins; go in, block everything for a short time and burn a single target to dust. This isn’t the theme of a guardian but the devs don’t mind for some reason.

Why can’t a necromancer do it then? Why aren’t they allowed to break free of the thematic prison Anet so consistently restricts them to.
- They are slow as hell
- They apparently only use conditions
- They cant use any blocks, or evades, or active defenses
- They are the attrition class and must do attrition things even though other classes if they so chose to build an attrition build could also play attrition and do just as well.
- They can’t 1v1 they can only 1v5 and die as soon as possible

i mean im painting a grim picture but its not far from the truth. Are there any plans? Are there any changes that are in the works for this class? It’s a bit depressing at times lol

I do use GS in spvp, and I’ll tell ya, It ain’t easy.

GS2 is your biggest hitting skill but should be use after GS3. Dont even auto once you’re getting the reset on GS2 (hitting enemy under 50% health) and just spam GS2. GS autos are probably your least reliable form of damage on GS but can be done if you train yourself to wait out enemies cooldowns and use your GS5 well.

GS4/5 are utility. Use GS2 over GS4 when you can.

My usual rotation on GS usually looks like 5 – 4 – 3 – 2 (or) 4 – 3 – 2 and save 5 for clutch use

Since i use both GS and focus; using Focus 4 and swapping into GS3 will pretty much add a crap ton of vuln (24 if 1v1). Good for decimate defenses.

Use GS5 for ppl on ledges too. Rangers and whatnot trying to keep high ground.

Spartacus.3192:

Tissitra.4153:

Spartacus.3192:

Sure give Guardians access to another life bar (yay to more HP) and your condis (only having access to fire is so boring and easy to cleanse), then we consider trading you some blocks.

Have your people contact my people to discuss details.

I am sure – and it was pointed out by somebody above – that most necros would happily trade shroud for dh’s blocks any time of the day, same goes for necro’s condi application vs DH’s dps. Deal.

Cool lets ask Anet…because having played guardian since i started the game i would love to have more HP and access to a decent condi spec. The reason why we have so many blocks is because with out them we can be 2 shotted by a power spec class.

But thats the idea. You just described necromancers getting “2-shotted by power specs”. If you had zero blocks and instead had DS, you’d be in tears right now.

Lexander.4579:

give deathshroud to guardians then heheh

Absolutely. Im so glad you suggested that. YES

We get all of guardians blocks and invulns while they get DS. ABSOLUTELY.

have it.

Necros are the weakest kittening class in this whole kittening game

FOCUS THE NECROS
because they are the easiest to kill first. Has been the motto of GW2 since release.

I kinda already suggested this idea but i dont think Arenanet actually knows how unfair it is that necromancers don’t get blocks.

Blocking is a technique used to negate incoming attacks. A blocked attack deals no damage, and other effects on the target are also ignored.

Yeah. How is this just as good as life or added life bar? HOW? Can you explain it arenenet? You can’t. You cant explain how this is fair or balanced. its not.

Not to mention necromancers have to work for all the LF. Guardians just get passive aegis lol and a plethora of skills pretty much to ensure they don’t take any freaking damage for like 13 seconds.

Also, Necromancers power comes from harming multiple enemies. Their skills are lackluster vs low numbers (v1/v2) but the max benefits are not even better than other classes skills who don’t require mutliple procs to be effective.

Example: Shouts

Look at necromancer shouts and how weak they are when facing only like one other person. Now look at guardian shouts and warrior shouts. All of their effects are strong no matter how many allies / enemies the shouts effect.

Its imbalance. Necromancers are getting the short end of the stick for the sake of thematics. nothing more.

None of guardians shouts are weaker from affecting only a small number of allies. it doesn’t matter how many they affect, its always consistently strong.

Necromancers need to affect a greater number of enemies to reach the benefit already allotted war/guard shouts. It’s simply unfair and unbalanced.

if Anet truly balanced around thematics accross the board, we’d see similar weaknesses with classes like guards. Like their shouts are weaker when affecting only themselves or like one other ally. But this isnt the case. Its favoritism kitten lol. I swear. They dont do this for guards because its restrictive and would hurt their 1v1 potential and whatnot.

I can literally write a book. An entire book as to how unfair Anet is towards necromancers.

I think the best suggestion has been to remove the treb completely.

I only suggest this since treb clearly favors premades/coordinated teams more. It’s just another thing that puts soloers at a disadvantage.

Premades seem to be your target audience now anyways so I’m sure this is a bad suggestion.

Absolutely. Necromancer has too many negative thematics the most harmful one is being the “slow” class

- Slow animations / cast times / telegraphed as hell
- Slow movement / lack of dashing and teleports

Then comes the whole we cant block or do anything as an active defense. No blocks no invuln no evades no stealth ect.

For some reason we can’t heal in DS. We’re aslo the weakest when it comes to siphoning for some fkkitten reason.

We are the only class that relies on allies to function.

The list goes on.

kdaddy.5431:

TheDevice.2751:

When will people learn Anet doesn’t like necromancers lol

They honestly don’t care about necromancers. They try to pretend they do, but they don’t.

Burn guards were pretty good not too long ago (and still are) but the instant guards became a more mediocre class Anet tightened their kitten cheeks and buffed them.

The Necromancer community is the least catered to playerbase. Necros can discuss and attempt to suggest some changes for years and Anet won’t listen. It is what it is. The most underdog class I’ve ever played in any game ever.

Think about this: Why does Moa kill all of necros minions but not engi’s turrents? That just shows you right there.

is it January 2105 because thats the last time i heard of burn guardians and turret engys being useful.

Seriously going to look threw these threads to find the last time someone complained about either.

Ohhh and also giving players like Nos and Kaypud life force to start a match says which class will be OP as a mofo when facing them.

Yeah so that means anything anyone hasn’t complained about isn’t viable. Your logic is sound. only it isnt. Nobody complains about Minions… so I guess that makes them just as useless.

Ohhh and balancing the entire class on account of two players has to be the silliest thing I’ve actually every heard. Not to mention 2 people I’ve never even heard of. Gw2 “pro’s” come and go. Just because some guy spends every day of his early 20’s trying to “get gud” at a class doesn’t mean we should be basing balance off their performance.

Its called balance. What you don’t seem to understand about necros (and I extend the lack of knowledge to Anet themselves) is that necromancers need to build up their power budged while all the other classes do not. Necromancers have to build up LF just to be on par with the strengths of all the other classes. Not to be stronger. Not to live longer, but to try and achieve a semblance of usefulness already afforded everyone else.

Guardians don’t have to work to get all the blocks and invuln. They just start with it. They just have to wait for the cooldown.

Lets also not forget

Blocks, invuln, evades etc, are ALWAYS going to be stronger than straight up life. Necromancers have a lot of life but they’re also rag dolls and have to take just about every bit of condition that comes their way. They get blinded, cc’d, dazed, confused, and everything else. When you block, you block. Nothing happens to you. Whats more, is while you block or evade or are invuln, you can heal. You cant heal in DS.

But just like Anet devs, you don’t care. It doesn’t matter to you because you don’t play necromancers.

If they removed cast time and buffed duration I’d be so happy I’d cry

R O C.6574:

Armenthos.9682:

Make it so that it can take damage from conditions please. Allows all players then to have equal chance to take it out and not just power builds.

+1 Destroying treb w/ a condi build takes FOREVER!!

A necromancer buff? Now you’re talking crazy. (all necros are condition bots)

Anyways

I like that the Treb adds some strategy but I don’t like that it favors certain classes. A mesmer can place a portal and just hop from the repair kit to the treb making destroying the treb practically pointless.

Its also possible to man the treb all game by which you never use any of your skills or enter any real combat. Which is kinda weird.

When will people learn Anet doesn’t like necromancers lol

They honestly don’t care about necromancers. They try to pretend they do, but they don’t.

Burn guards were pretty good not too long ago (and still are) but the instant guards became a more mediocre class Anet tightened their kitten cheeks and buffed them.

The Necromancer community is the least catered to playerbase. Necros can discuss and attempt to suggest some changes for years and Anet won’t listen. It is what it is. The most underdog class I’ve ever played in any game ever.

Think about this: Why does Moa kill all of necros minions but not engi’s turrents? That just shows you right there.