Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

However it’s also not illegal. It’s illegal only if it’s intentional.

And trying to prove intent is where most attempts to “get” such cases for the plantiff fall a little short – it’s really hard without a smoking gun like internal memos or information from insiders.

Sokia.3710:

Rangers were pretty good at roaming, though, seeing as how you could get some decent mobility with greatsword and you could 1vCamp by getting everything to attack your pet.

That describes partly how I played on slow nights – scouting and camp disruption It’s a little easier now since Axe got its buff.

Vayne.8563:

aliksyian.7642:

If they wait long enough, the people who want new sPvP and dungeon content will move on to other games. I guess that’s like a win for them, somehow?

It might not be a loss. Depends on how many people leave and how many new people come.

I closed the mac department of my computer store, and focused entirely on PC. I lost every single mac customer and I had a quite a few. And man they were not happy about it and they made no bones about telling me so.

But I made more money getting rid of that department than I did keeping it.

. . . as a part-time Mac user, I feel slightly sad. However, given that I am a gamer first, that means I really have to avoid Macs as being really sorta kinda maybe a little outside a sane budget for me to work with anyway

I’d love for them to focus on polish over content, honestly. The problem is, as always, “the Monkey’s Paw” issue of asking for stuff . . .

Sokia.3710:

Ashen.2907:

I did check your post history. You are one of those to whom I referred in the quoted post.

I thought so, seeing as how I’ve made quite a few posts recently. Frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m not the only one new to the forums.

You’re not. I’ve looked.

Ashen.2907:

What I meant by the merchant being held to a different standard than the customer was specifically about communication.

This is almost (and I am saying almost only because for all I know there is some weird exception that is all but unheard of) always the case because there are far more legal requirements placed on a merchant’s communications to the customer than on the customer’s communication to the merchant.

And then you get times when, like we see now, the merchant is unable to address concerns due to those rules (external or internal) . . . and communication is believed uncertain or untrustworthy.

It’s a thorny problem, and makes me glad customer service is not my job anymore. Well, beyond “where can I find the toilet paper?” “aisle four”.

NewTrain.7549:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

NewTrain.7549:

Or, you know, people may just actually dislike the NPE. But no…that couldn’t be the case.

The NPE, however, is simply the most visible part of the patch. There’s other stuff to like in it too.

Like the sudden popularity of my ranger in groups . . .

Which makes the impact of the NPE all the worse, if people have such a dislike for the patch even despite the few positive changes it made.

. . . some people are calling the other changes also negative. Primarily the people seeing rangers are no longer always free bags in WvW . . .

NewTrain.7549:

Or, you know, people may just actually dislike the NPE. But no…that couldn’t be the case.

The NPE, however, is simply the most visible part of the patch. There’s other stuff to like in it too.

Like the sudden popularity of my ranger in groups . . .

Ashen.2907:

I am not going to pull out the old, “customer is always right,” adage because it has never actually been true.

It’s often misquoted too. Have a look

But.

The merchant taking customers’ money for a service should be held to a different standard than a random customer.

I’m not sure if I read that right, the merchant should be held to a different standard than a random customer, which makes no sense . . . or the customer who paid for the service should be treated differently than a random customer, which they would be anyway? . . .

I mean, I agree there has to be a standard of service, but I’m also wary of insisting on it be high when we are talking about “any/every customer” . . . including the abusive, dishonest, or disruptive. Blanket mission statements of service often have to come with thick books to discern when it is okay to retract the oath of service quality.

(I should know, I was a waiter more than once, and worked customer service a couple times. There does have to be a point where you just divorce a “customer” from your services because they’re abusing the privileges you grant them.)

Sokia.3710:

The things this game has needed the most since launch:

1) Downed tutorial. There still isn’t one, as far as I can tell.

Really does need one, perhaps in a training yard in each starting area much like the Dodge Tutorial is.

ANet, make a note

2) Ability to view downed skills in hero panel. Was this ever added? I’ve never noticed them if they are there.

It wasn’t. I had to mouse over them to learn what they were first time . . . but then I try to look before I flail at keys blindly. It’s atypical.

Again, ANet – note this please.

3) Dodge tutorial. Dodging is one of the most integral mechanics of the game, yet there was basically no in-game explanation about it.

And there were people who didn’t bother with it since it was more useful or easier to just tank everything . . . later on it’s actually pretty bad since highly-telegraphed one-hit-downs exist on some Champs and people still don’t bother dodging and just complain “one hit?!”.

Again, atypical of me but I played Monster Hunter Freedom Unite. I learned dodging was one of the best defenses you could have out of that game

I think what Guild Halls could do for the game varies on how they’d be implemented. If they’re just a side-instance guild members could visit (GW1 style) then they’d probably just be used like Airship/Terrace Passes and the like.

Now, if they were structures in PvE . . . that could affect things differently. And if it was available through pockets of the Mists and could permit PvP content? It might actually be interesting to people wanting to revisit the old GvG fights.

Snorcha.7586:

I dunno man, did we really need a tutorial on how to dodge ffs??

Yes.

I unfortunately am going to have to agree there were significant bugs (either in number or scope) which kinda tarnished things I was prepared to like. Such as collections seemingly impossible to unlock or discover, which I could be half done with now if they just would unlock.

Then there’s the reported numerous performance changes and crash issues . . . and the progress-blocking trouble in certain dungeons.

“Bug-laden mess” is pushing it, but no denial can be made. There were too many significant bugs on patch day, which is . . . unfortunately, par for the course again with MMOs (not just GW2).

Sokia.3710:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yeah but I get those anyway. And the golems.

Careful, the Inquest have made the Mark II golems much more powerful.

Personally, I think they stole the design from my old Asuran thief, Sokia Sureshot. Clearly, the average Inquest inventor doesn’t have the genius to make a powerful Gatling Fists.

I suspect it was derived from Zinn’s work with N.O.X.

Sokia.3710:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well they paid me in asura I was permitted to kill. Snaff was the down payment to get started. I asked for Taimi and we kinda sorta had a disagreement.

They told me I could have Moto instead and I just couldn’t do it.

You should have negotiated. You might have gotten a few Inquest.

Yeah but I get those anyway. And the golems.

Except for Hobo-Tron.

Sokia.3710:

But, it’s good to know that you are no longer on Arenanet’s payroll.

Well they paid me in asura I was permitted to kill. Snaff was the down payment to get started. I asked for Taimi and we kinda sorta had a disagreement.

They told me I could have Moto instead and I just couldn’t do it.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

For someone that doesn’t play the game much, you’re sure disparaging about it. I think there are probably a lot of people who gave only the most cursory test to the new systems, before jumping on the I hate them bandwagon.

It’s only since 9/9/2014 that I don’t play the game much. I played a fair amount before that date.

I played very little before that date after I logged in just to grab Dragon’s Reach Pt2 . I came back to collect spoons.

That way I can be the Spoony One.

Vayne.8563:

Sokia.3710:

Behellagh.1468:

Then why did you say this then?

Because I genuinely forgot that the window doesn’t automatically pop up. I really haven’t been playing the game over the last several days, except for to log on occasionally and help other people.

For someone that doesn’t play the game much, you’re sure disparaging about it. I think there are probably a lot of people who gave only the most cursory test to the new systems, before jumping on the I hate them bandwagon.

I think it matters less if they tried it at all, and more that there’s a bandwagon of hate in the first place.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I love how the entirety of the forums is basically everyone in unison fighting against Anet’s paid poster….

Hey, they stopped paying me last year.

(Sarcasm)

I plan to work on collections, WvW Fall tournament, and loot 5 Precursors a night.

Only two of these will happen, but I’m okay with 66%.

fourhim.3584:

Does the game at any point show characters how to sell unwanted gear to a merchant, or to use a salvage kit? If not, I wonder how many new players stop looting corpses because their bags are full.

. . . all of the ones who don’t drop/delete items to pick up the loot, obviously. Then they go, sell or get rid of things until they’re no longer full.

Wolfheart.1938:

Well I am there you go.

We don’t have numbers so our certainties or lack thereof don’t really matter much.

I am certain of one thing.

. . . tonight is the night I get home from work and get a Precursor off a moa.

Wolfheart.1938:

And why do you think that is? That is called having a reputation, it doesn’t demonstrate that said reputation is unreasonable nor persecution.

No, but it does introduce bias.

Besides, Vayne having a bad reputation doesn’t invalidate or meaningfully affect a poll with 1 thousand votes.

I’m not so certain.

Fernling.1729:

Well, there it is. 81% aren’t happy with this patch and only 10% like it. Hopefully Anet can make some pretty significant changes to sway peoples feelings. This might be Arenanet’s
third biggest blunder. Right behind Not making the game more like Guild wars and ascended gear.

I still consider “allowing asura to be anything more important to the story than a chair” is their biggest blunder but I’ll be okay with your list

laokoko.7403:

So if that few people like it right now. And 81% want some minor or major change to it, maybe Anet could consider it.

I agree. I’ve been posting what changes I think would help, though it’s not my own idea and someone else’s.

As with a great many things in GW2, this could have used another couple passes of tooling and polishing before being released into the wild. It almost looks from the outside as though ANet’s devs just have too much to be doing that they routinely seem to get about seven smaller projects partly polished instead of one awesome bit thing.

(If they launch a big expansion and it rocks the socks off of everyone here, I will retract that statement and stand naked in Lion’s Arch for an hour.)

Wolfheart.1938:

Stop coming in and saying that anytime anyone disagrees with you or Vayne it is because people with different opinions are unreasonable or on persecuting you. Thanks.

People don’t disagree with me, though – a lot of people seem to agree this patch needs some adjustments and work so it can work for Veteran players where they won’t need to jump through all the NPE hoops.

And I’ll stop painting that picture as soon as I stop seeing it

Ok I Did It.2854:

You know Vayne I sometimes swear you are an Anet employee, I think that if Anet set fire to a box full of puppies ud find a good reason why they did it,

Sokia.3710:

Not that I think Vayne is being dishonest or misleading. Nope. Not a chance.

Really, though, there’s no target on Vayne’s back at all. After all he doesn’t get topics started or posts left just to be about him being “sekret aNet emplyee”.

And no, I don’t entirely agree with Vayne on this one. I honestly think starting the poll wasn’t going to merit anything other than yet one more where a majority say they didn’t like it and the best position is “but not an overwhelming, crushing majority said so”.

That’s the only victory he can expect from this poll, in terms of debate.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

In addition to that, the exsistence of traiding is ruining any non-level approach.
You could simply buy the strongest armor from the get-go.
Not to say that I’m against the idea, it’s just not possible in GW2.

And Droknar Runs destroyed any sense of people waiting to get the good armor until the appropriate time in Prophecies

Serophous.9085:

So now that I’ve had my chuckle, we can all confirm they at least made gw2 more like gw1. Its boring at first, but it gets better later on!

If they let me start collecting charr hides again, I’ll give it a 10/10.

There are a lot of small areas which belong solely to jumping puzzles on the edges of areas, or events people don’t necessarily know/care about – Aurora’s Remains is one of those. So is the Hidden Garden, King Jalis’ Refuge, Sector Zuhl . . . there’s a lot of areas for Explorer which you’ll never find doing map completion.

Ashen.2907:

Up to 81% of respondents not happy/ok with the patch. The margin for the negative score seems to be growing over time with additional responses.

Honestly, I would answer the poll positively but I don’t see the point. Everyone is going to see what they want to see. If it shows positive, it’s because Vayne constructed the poll wrong. If it’s negative in any fashion, then it shows the majority of all players hate the changes and want them banished to the seventh layer of the Abyss to have spiders eat their eyes for all eternity.

I don’t put my vote in because I don’t think it matters anymore – nobody would believe I really meant it, anyway, same as it’s going around (yet again) about Vayne being a plant.

MikaHR.1978:

EvE works awesome without levels.

But I don’t play EvE Online, and haven’t checked it out so I don’t speak for how it is or is not awesome. I hope you can appreciate that.

The last MMO I played with no levels was Ultima Online, which incidentally is the last game before GW2 where crafting was more fun . . . primarily due to needing it for furnishing that awesome stone tower you bought.

Also, if there were no levels crafting would be much much more awesome, remember before they introduced ascended most mats were worthless? Thats direct impact of levels and tiers, now imagine if whole crafting was based on that principle. Just one of the benefits.

Indeed, I can imagine a lot of things if it were different. Such as if there was a different look to each tier of basic gear you could craft so your appearance could be affected. (They got halfway there and stopped – probably due to the artists not having time or energy to try designing 9-12 different craftable armors for each class in addition to all the others out there.)

Levels just arbitrairly gate some things, and if you absolutely want to gate some things it can be done in so many different ways. Levels are just 1 and far from best (unless you presume players have been conditioned to having to see bigger and bigger numbers for sake of bigger numbers)

Levels . . . hmm. I’m sorry, I can’t agree with this. Once you decide you want levels, there is a certain amount of stress which gets removed about how to structure things. There is not always anything “arbitrary” about how it gets structured.

NewTrain.7549:

Serophous.9085:

How was this a holy grail of guild wars again? (Go ahead, say ‘it gets better later on’ I’m ready to start laughing)

I hailed it as the holy grail largely due to its PvP, which is far superior to GW2 in my opinion.

I liked the PvP, but I primarily did play in “Competitive Missions” and the sheer amount of bots floating around Jade Quarry . . . sort of killed all the fun out of it. But I can agree it was refreshingly not built on “PvP to get gear and stomp players who don’t have the gear”.

It reminded me in a good way of TF2.

Other people’s reasons may differ.

Me? I really liked it because it didn’t have a subscription fee, it ran on my piece-o-skritt toaster relatively smoothly, and it wasn’t EverQuest.

Serophous.9085:

How was this a holy grail of guild wars again? (Go ahead, say ‘it gets better later on’ I’m ready to start laughing)

It did get better later. Of course, it also added all kinds of layers of extra stuff which really . . . weren’t that awesome.

The first time I picked it up, it had been about a year since I dumped my old MMO (EverQuest) due to paying for not being allowed to do anything except stand and “Ranger LFG”. In ten minutes I had identified what it felt like – it felt like playing Diablo 2 again. (I mean that in a good way.) And even with no RL friends playing it, I bought the game as soon as I had the money to (the following week) and was hooked.

There was a notable difference the more I looked at it – there was no statistically “best” loot to chase as the mythical “Godly Plate of the Whale” which needed to be what you had. There was an abundance of loot you could get without the game really being about loot.

. . . it was too bad I could call the story events out as I played and found it way easier to hang comedy around it than drama.

JonPeters.5630:

Ok time for a third topic.

Guild Halls.

I see this subject come up a lot in this thread and while we can talk about other aspects of Guild Halls at some point, let’s try another exercise.

What are the 3 top QOL features you think Guild Halls could provide that maybe couldn’t exist otherwise? Try not to list features that are beyond QOL, but I won’t hold it against you because its hard to do.

1. It gives the guild a place to call home, gather groups to organize for things such as dungeons or such, or maybe just to hang around. (This is a lot of what my alliance used halls for in GW1.)

2. Potentially, it would give a sense of ownership and “this is our house” to guilds. There is probably no technical benefit here but the intangible is worth noting.

3. Grants options to work with later. A Guild Hall existing means there are options on what to do with it later on, such as events or updates which could include something happening with the Hall for guilds who can do that stuff.

Iason Evan.3806:

I am tired of this game taking 3 steps forward(Ranger changes, BLTC changes) and 2 steps back(ArenaNet implemented the Scavenger Hunt and Renamed it “Collections” and got rid of the precursors that were supposed to be a part of it).

You mean when they added the “Precursor Quest” and replaced it with Mawdry II right?

I said it before, these two things smell of ideas they mocked up internally for Precursors and decided they wouldn’t cut it or needed live world data to look at before trying . . . so they were polished into something else.

That’s what it feels to me because I’ve seen commentary on how testing and development sometimes gets from “Point A” to “Point 5” without explaining how they switched to Numerical in the middle.

narwhalsbend.7059:

Other than some of the titles, there was nothing else grindy at all.
I wouldn’t call Cartographer grindy at all either. You’re not doing anything over and again; once you explore the area you don’t need to come back. Don’t confuse “grindy” and “difficult” on that title. Maybe you just don’t like exploring and running at walls.

HEH. I did those mapping titles before Hall of Monuments even existed. I even did one of them without the lovely TexEdit program tricks. . . . Try _again.

It was still boring, and repetitive, and in a few places to keep running at a wall until that small piece popped onto the map so you could get the last 0.1% you needed.

And “nothing grindy at all” . . . I’ll have to pull two cards out now: Obsidian Armor and “Befriend the Kurzicks/Luxons”. These two things I found seriously grindy while trying to play the game – one because it was entirely dominated by RNG chance, and the other because it was repetitive actions which had to be done in order to earn favor.

That’s without peeking at Vabbian armor . . . oy, I still shudder on that one.

All snarking aside, I don’t think the hardware could handle it, nor do I think Nintendo would go for it.

Besides, there’s another system which is begging for attention – Mac OSX. Yes, Virginia, there are Mac gamers.

Malkavian.4516:

Let that be another lesson. To be fair, with every change comes different errors.

I could make a simple proposal which could fix the trouble of needing to keep the flow of the chapters and allow for a nigh-infinite amount: simply set a “minimum level requirement” for an arc of missions and don’t hogtie it so tightly to require going up each time.

That way you could keep “Fear” in there at the level it was at, just requiring previous parts as well.

I personally think it’s not a good idea to muck with editing a storyline for a game already released. But if you must do it, either whole replacement or addition-only. Subtracting makes a mess. But that’s my personal opinion/thoughts on it rather than me weighing what might be better/worse.

I can think of some segments I’d also nominate for “cutting” – primarily the racial sympathy one. (Or at the least, moving it to a side-attraction since it does detract from the flow of the story in places.) But that’s another topic.

I’m ever hopeful they change that, Taygus. I really am.

Taygus.4571:

laokoko.7403:

Quite honestly if they just unlock utility earlier, most people might even like it.

We’ll level faster 1-15. And we get to unlock utility at the same time.

the last vote with only 2 option have 83% people like it and 17% don’t. I think most people fit the I don’t like it, but it don’t bother me too much, so if they make slight adjustment…

I’m only bothered because the utility is pushed back… The trait thing bothered me already before.

Actually the utility doesnt bother me, its the lack of vistas/poi/gathering nodes and skill challenges.

If these are acc.unlocks, and jut limited on the first char, than its fine. but if they are limited on ALL new characters, than it is certainly not ok.

I like to be able to get my skill points asap.

Vistas, Gathering Nodes are not locked, they merely aren’t on the map. I don’t know about POI. Skill challenges were probably a good move, I know I couldn’t reliably clear combat ones until I was well over-leveled on them anyway.

MikaHR.1978:

Becka Williams.4978:

If you’re exactly the same as a low level character in a low level area, what’s the point of having levels at all?

Arbitrary numbers just like in any other game.

I still think GW2 would be better with no levels at all (and i think that since launch)

And you can see how some players are fixated onthose arbitrary numbers “they moved weapon swap fron 7-15” without any consideration that they also adjusted xp curve so effectivly you get it at the roughly same time as before.

But now its “15” instead of “7” so it MUST be worse, right?

You know, I thought “no levels” would be awesome but the alpha build trying that apparently didn’t work. At least, that’s what I’ve been told.

I can count on one hand the RPGs I really saw which worked well with no “levels” and only with mechanics outside it. Almost all of them are tabletop RPGs, with precious few computer games . . . I think Minecraft is the most recent one doing a good job of that. (Don’t tell me it has levels, that’s more of a currency than it is a status of power.)

It hasn’t quite been done yet and then balanced well.

At least it’s not as incredibly bad as it is in Munchkin . . .

SlayerGT.6805:

(Not to mention if they wanted to make the core story better, they should start with Trahearne.)

No, I think what they have to do is do a better “handoff” from mentor to mentor. From the racial hero of Destiny’s Edge to the Tyrian Order Mentor, that has to be one of the weaker ones.

And then from that to not a mentor, but companion, Trahearne? That handoff was so bad it colored what many thought of the character.

SlayerGT.6805:

By well-formulated I meant at least coherent and somewhat engaging. I did not say it was a masterpiece, I meant it was a story that I could make sense of and relate to, and that worked for most people. If it hadn’t, they wouldn’t be complaining this much, would they. What it currently has become is kittening chaos.

I’m not sure yet, because I haven’t got someone playing through the story yet. What I do know is . . .

It does need revision, but it needs to be more, not less. I think anyone with half a brain could realize that.

NEVER assume that. It needs to be tightened up, and removing a part might be needed. I would like to see more parts added in, but along the same lines . . . maybe that’s not the best answer. For that writer.

The problems I had with the personal story include “too many moving parts” and trimming them out or moving them to side-stories which can be done outside of the PS is probably better for the PS than leaving them in “because we need more”. What we don’t need is strictly “more”, in my observation, but “more focus”.

I’ve gotten more cloth and metal than leather so far.

You all figure it out, I just play the game.

Sokia.3710:

Erukk.1408:

Both Anet and the players have to learn to deal with these changes.

Or they could become former players.

They could do that too, and unless we suddenly get sub fees this game will be around to return to if they change their mind.

Sunshine.4680:

Leo Paul.1659:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leo Paul.1659:

Zoso.8279:

Leo Paul.1659:

He should’ve worded it better then. It’s silly to assume that someone would think that ABSOLUTELY every single person in the game hated the patch anyway.

If you look at the forums some people where trying to say just that. (ABSOLUTELY)

Hyperbolic vs categorical

Which is the argument being tried anyway – the patch was terrible and kills puppies and if you disagree you must be fanboy white knighting.

I don’t like the patch. But whoever (if there’s any) thinks that anyone who likes it is just being fanboy white knighting let’s fighting is a kitten and a puppy hater.

I’m sure there are a few obnoxious ones but it’s mostly the update defenders that lump everyone that has a problem with the patch as some horde that hates everything, doesn’t know how good we got it or something. Using a bunch of misleading words and political talk to muddy the water.

I like what I have played which uses update material so far. I haven’t done NPE yet as I haven’t had the time to get my teeth sunk into it and evaluate for myself, but most of the people in my guild I asked said they found it “okay” and “not as bad as the forums make it out”.

And that’s the last I have to say on it right now.

Vayne.8563:

Have you ever played an Asian grinder?

I’m not sure if what I did counts, it was a Facebook game but gawds awful with that grind and money-grubbing.

Chicago Jack.5647:

How “hard” a game is, is an irrelevant point that makes no sense in the context and its a point that anet is sticking to – so are you!

BACKWARDS LAND EXISTS!

Heh. Please go on.

I don’t really have an opinion on the new player experience changes themselves. I just have opinions on how it’s been reacted to, the unlocks have been memetically overhyped, and as I said . . . it’s held as the death of puppies and all things good. And if you don’t agree with that, fanboy and white knight.

There’s no middle ground.

Can you see what’s wrong there?

phys.7689:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leo Paul.1659:

Zoso.8279:

Leo Paul.1659:

He should’ve worded it better then. It’s silly to assume that someone would think that ABSOLUTELY every single person in the game hated the patch anyway.

If you look at the forums some people where trying to say just that. (ABSOLUTELY)

Hyperbolic vs categorical

Which is the argument being tried anyway – the patch was terrible and kills puppies and if you disagree you must be fanboy white knighting.

if you are trying to swing this poll into, people arent that upset, thats not what the poll shows.

I’m not talking about the poll, I’m talking about the . . . atmopshere, around here. Though I should point some guildmates at the poll – they were really liking it.

Chicago Jack.5647:

The ONLY people not giving a kitten about other people is Anet.

Chicago Jack.5647:

I don’t give a kitten how hard it was for other people!

You were saying?