The issue is turk that when the turret engies said that before it was actually good advice. Becuase they knew EXACTLY how to kill there own build. The community as a whole CHOSE not to listen. That was a decision they actively made.
And now after the nerf people are giving sound advice to engies, such as place turrets away from each other, don’t stand within cleave distance of your turret, etc.
Hell even ArrDee of ALL PEOPLE says that this was the wrong way to go about it? Holy kittening kitten.
Who? Unless whoever this is works for Anet, why should their opinion matter to anyone but themselves?
This is a perfect example of what happens when the community refuses to listen to common sense and detailed explanations. We made SEVERAL posts telling step by step how to kill a turret group while taking less than 10% of your health in damage.
Pretty deep in the denial, were you, pal? As a theif, without the engy even being there, turrets would take over two thirds of my health by the time I capped the point they were placed on. That’s not killing them, that’s actively evading their attacks to the best of my ability. Actually damaging them would mean sacrificing my dodges and evades….I don’t even know why I’m arguing this point, its over, you lost, adapt. L2P
Wowzers, suggesting rank 80 is an awful idea!
Maybe rank 5 or 10, so someone gets the feel for the game-modes (which would require hotjoin to no longer give pvp xp)
I’m only rank 38, and that’s after hours and hours of games, I can only imagine how long it would take to get to rank 80. Or that the matchmaking queue would take hours!
Cosmetic gem-store stuff is a gigantic portion of revenue that supports the free-to-play style of GW2. Handing out the cosmetics for free as well wouldn’t benefit anyone.
OP you should start contact-adding teammates whose gameplay you admired during a match, then invite them to queue with you. Solo queue is bound to be like this, which allows you to enjoy a match more than once an hour.
I do not queue with other people, and I know and understand the risks of being the least-skilled person in a match, or the most-skilled and having everyone else kitten about.
Don’t bother responding to DarkSyze about anything, he’s not open for actual discussion. He’s very bitter about the thief profession for some reason, and has obviously never played a thief, so his claims are warrantless.
Not to mention the sheer absurdity of certain range comparisons: apparently, Engineers can chuck grenades further then I can shoot a pistol…. or they can shoot a rifle ~_~
I discovered WvW 2 months ago, and have been in WvW every day since, offtimes and primetimes. I have never experienced any of this lag. Maybe it’s location based?
I’d rather have another high-damage dealer to help me kill faster. Nothing supports better than a quicker focus-kill. Boons and heals aren’t going to be better in a 2v2 or 2vX, as the fights will not last long enough for the boons to be more useful than a burst and some CC.
Like when I’m roaming as a thief, the best thing that could support me is another thief, or a GS zerk warrior.
Saying they should “play smart” to overcome the nerf is simply idiotic, if not downright trolling….
And how many times in those “nerf turret engy” posts have the zealous defenders of the turret build rambled off about “outplaying” “play smart” or “out rotate!”
I see people who have 20% worse win/loss ratios pinging their glorious hero armor and I wonder why I’m still here.
I’m wondering why you felt the need to add this portion. Although I’m also curious as to what you meant by it. Are you implying it’s too easy to achieve the reward? If so, the rest of your post seems kinda pointless, as that type of armor reward seems about as significant as a “gold border” on another game’s loading screen.
Or maybe you don’t have that reward, and you would like it! If so, that seems to be a reasonable goal to work towards!
The gameplay and action is fun to think about, and play, but unfortunately there hasn’t been a way to really fully enjoy watching a match. Even as players who know what all the skills and strategies are, we as an audience won’t even know what clutch moves are being made. With things like MOBA’s, its top-down and you can clearly see who is going where, what moves they used, and the teamwork involved.
With GW2, the action is so much more fast paced and there are so many more skills and abilities being used, you may notice someone skillfully dodge a Mighty Blow, yet miss 10 other things that happened at the same time.
You’re entitled to go wherever you want in WvW the same way you’re allowed to go wherever you want in a public park.
That still doesn’t make it acceptable to go and sit in the middle of someone’s picnic and demand to be included in their frisbee game.
This is just a terrible analogy. It would most definitely be acceptable to want to play, if you helped pay for the Frisbee. Both parties in this argument paid for GW2.
Well thats an even worse analogy. You helped pay for the park, not the frisbee. The frisbee wouldnt even have been tossed if there wherent two other people in the park.
To make an actual ingame comparison, thats like saying you helped pay for the chat bubbles used by two roleplayers, so they are obligated to let you in on their discussion.
An actual in-game comparison would be like saying that all parties paid for the same use of the game, so they are all entitled to do whatever they want. Oh wait, that’s what this discussion is about.
You keep talking about what you’re “entitled” to do, not what is socially acceptable.
Trolls are “entitled” to do the annoying stuff they do, it doesn’t make it any more acceptable amongst civilised, decent human beings.
Going back to the park, I’m entitled to follow you around the park all day playing the bagpipes loudly (and badly) and setting up a whiteboard whenever you stop, and drawing insulting images of your mother, ruining your day out. Just because I’m entitled to do that, doesn’t mean you should be forced to shrug your shoulders and accept it.
Deliberately disrupting other people’s leisure time, entitled or not, is always a low, dirty way to live your life, however you want to spin it.
If you insist that anything which isn’t explicitly against the rules is fair-game, then, well, society just wouldn’t function. GGthx4civilisation, back to living in caves.
I never said it was socially acceptable. I have maintained that its a good idea to ignore what the guild says if they’re at an objective, and to concede to them if they are not.
But if you want to compare more, following me around with bagpipes, drawing lewd pictures, and disrupting my day more, you would be cited for harassment and possible as well for causing a public disturbance. What you’re relating to_is_ against “the rules” and actually has legal repercussions. All of this done in game is not against any rules of any sort, nor does it have any legal repercussions.
Again, I only like to play devil’s advocate, I still maintain the opinion that guilds can go suck it if they ask someone to leave an objective, but I also feel they have good reason to ask someone to leave their little zerg if they are out and about.
Its mind boggling how many people are arguing about “realism” and “immersion” for turrets taking conditions like poison and bleed.
You’re playing a game. Probably don’t need to go further than this, yet we have to.
You’re playing a game where you can cast electric abilities and spells under water. Big pieces of land mass float high in the sky.
4 turrets twice the size of the asura engineer that placed them seemingly appear out of thin air. One of them is literally a blunderbuss on a stick, yet fires by itself and intelligently finds enemy targets.
Unlimited ammunition fired semi-automatically out of a flintlock-style pistol!
An Asuran using a tiny sword to block multiple attacks from a gigantic norn’s 2h hammer
You’re entitled to go wherever you want in WvW the same way you’re allowed to go wherever you want in a public park.
That still doesn’t make it acceptable to go and sit in the middle of someone’s picnic and demand to be included in their frisbee game.
This is just a terrible analogy. It would most definitely be acceptable to want to play, if you helped pay for the Frisbee. Both parties in this argument paid for GW2.
Well thats an even worse analogy. You helped pay for the park, not the frisbee. The frisbee wouldnt even have been tossed if there wherent two other people in the park.
To make an actual ingame comparison, thats like saying you helped pay for the chat bubbles used by two roleplayers, so they are obligated to let you in on their discussion.
An actual in-game comparison would be like saying that all parties paid for the same use of the game, so they are all entitled to do whatever they want. Oh wait, that’s what this discussion is about.
You’re entitled to go wherever you want in WvW the same way you’re allowed to go wherever you want in a public park.
That still doesn’t make it acceptable to go and sit in the middle of someone’s picnic and demand to be included in their frisbee game.
This is just a terrible analogy. It would most definitely be acceptable to want to play, if you helped pay for the Frisbee. Both parties in this argument paid for GW2.
You’re trying REALLY hard to not get the picture… 1 skill and a swap.
Yeah? And a Condi warrior’s LB5 can do 18k damage to me…if I don’t feel like cleansing that bleed. Lets try this again, how about you don’t drop all of your turrets in one AOE’able area? That too hard? L2P, we’re not gonna hold your hand here much longer.
Lets not get childish and start the insult game. Rocket turret is the only real threat, which will die to 1 attack, but FASTER if you actually do anything additional. Beyond that, unlike before, even thumper will die fairly quickly. These don’t move, so you easily take out one, then attack the engineer and the other comes with it fairly naturally because it takes an enormous increase in damage compared to what it did.
Also, theres a pretty significant difference between a player with a brain and abilities having a condition (or anything done to them) and a turret that doesn’t have a heal, condition cleanses, isn’t affected by boons, mobility, nor evade frames for any reason. Effective HP of a turret is far FAR lower than a players (same goes with any AI). You ARE in fact trying incredibly hard, because its obvious you just hate turrets. That’s fine, but lets not pretend this won’t completely trash them. Just be honest and admit that you’re okay with that.
So now you’re saying its going to take more than 1 attack and a weapon swap?
You’re trying REALLY hard to not get the picture… 1 skill and a swap.
Yeah? And a Condi warrior’s LB5 can do 18k damage to me…if I don’t feel like cleansing that bleed that lasts for half a minute… Lets try this again, how about you don’t drop all of your turrets in one AOE’able area? That too hard? L2P, we’re not gonna hold your hand here much longer.
To all the classes that usually avoid turret nests thieves, mesmers, certan warriors and guardians…. Please consider this every class/build has its kryptonite a squishy crit thief poping in a turret nest to do a backstab is probably going to die very quickly it happens its not a thiefs strong point as a mater of fact its their Kryptonite. If superman didnt have his kryptonite his stories wouldnt be that entertaining because no one could stop him. We want Superman to have his weaknesses as we have our own to make our lives more challenging.
If there were one class/build that owned all we would all play it, all drive gray Priuses, all wear gray suits. all do the same job and live in the same type house that are all same shade of gray. Does anyone want to live that life?
I play a turret engi and do agree that something needs to give, but realize that theres a counter to every build/class and noone will win every situation get over it. Ive seen mostly thieves mesmers and warriors kitten moan and complain about how they cant get past a turret engi, well have you tried another approach? it just may work but youll have to look outside the meta in some situations.
Have a nice day.
How many professions are in this game again? Cause you named four that turret engie’s are kryptonite to, as if that’s a small percentage of the variety of professions available…
Just a heads up, this means:
1 Conbustive shot + 1 Geomancy sigil proc (alone) with celestial gear and no might stacking (less than 500 condi damage) and no bleed duration trait (standard shoutbow)
Combustive shot (3 bars) does 460 damagex12+ 278 damage x4
Total: 5520 + 1112
And 3 stacks of bleed for 10 seconds does 194×10
Total: 1940.
Thats 8572 damage on something that doesn’t move, doesn’t cleanse etc. This is why pets already don’t exist in PVP except turrets.
1 move and a weapon swap (both aoe) can literally kill 3/5 of the turrets in no time at all. Given actual combat scenarios, yes, these are completely useless. Doesn’t take rocket science to realize that this will make them obsolete.
Maybe don’t brainlessly drop all of your turrets in one area?
Well, not that anyone cares, but this is basically along the same lines or handling MM and Guardian Spirits, they took the easy way out and deleted them. Such a shame. At this point turrets may as well be removed from the game, along with any other summon that is essentially useless across the board. Not sure why they ask for “feedback”. I’ve spent hours making several page write ups on how to make certain AI builds acceptable contenders without being overly frustrating to fight OR play, but it seems they always get ignored.
If you want a “Good job, we can pvp again!” You got it, good job. But this isn’t a design victory at all.
+1 After careful and proper thoughts I realize they do that for mostly everything and also sometimes they revert it but somewhere no one wants to go and don’t make it attractive and they call it genius and innovative, I predict a trait that prevents crit/condi on turrets above a threshold at some point maybe and maybe not. I should stop posting on this thread too much negativity can come from it, I’ll let the casual whiners have it.
And the turret defending whiners are retreating!
Defending turrets?? I proposed changes to make them more active in addition to the 2 certain ones all you want is nerf with your lack of decent creativity. I’m referring to class balance a specific one that they ignored forever but that’s off-topic. It seems it’s not that hard to identify a casual whiner.
They are! And the zealous defenders are even easier to spot, however, considering how much higher up on their pedestal they are.
You can stop trying with the b8 m8 it ain’t gr8. Do yourself a favor and don’t turn into a forum warrior.
Isn’t that exactly what you did in the quoted text though? Haha! Yes. Yes it was.
Not a single person who has presented their version of “irrefutable” evidence apparently has the confidence to actually submit a thread on the bug report forum…
For the love of all that is holy…..if you really want to test this out you don’t test it on an engineer exedore.
Hidden Killer on thief: 100% crit chance when striking from stealth, revealed buff is 3s. you have enough time to restealth and test the proc intervals. It may be off by 1 second or less.
Well, not that anyone cares, but this is basically along the same lines or handling MM and Guardian Spirits, they took the easy way out and deleted them. Such a shame. At this point turrets may as well be removed from the game, along with any other summon that is essentially useless across the board. Not sure why they ask for “feedback”. I’ve spent hours making several page write ups on how to make certain AI builds acceptable contenders without being overly frustrating to fight OR play, but it seems they always get ignored.
If you want a “Good job, we can pvp again!” You got it, good job. But this isn’t a design victory at all.
+1 After careful and proper thoughts I realize they do that for mostly everything and also sometimes they revert it but somewhere no one wants to go and don’t make it attractive and they call it genius and innovative, I predict a trait that prevents crit/condi on turrets above a threshold at some point maybe and maybe not. I should stop posting on this thread too much negativity can come from it, I’ll let the casual whiners have it.
And the turret defending whiners are retreating!
Defending turrets?? I proposed changes to make them more active in addition to the 2 certain ones all you want is nerf with your lack of decent creativity. I’m referring to class balance a specific one that they ignored forever but that’s off-topic. It seems it’s not that hard to identify a casual whiner.
They are! And the zealous defenders are even easier to spot, however, considering how much higher up on their pedestal they are.
Well, not that anyone cares, but this is basically along the same lines or handling MM and Guardian Spirits, they took the easy way out and deleted them. Such a shame. At this point turrets may as well be removed from the game, along with any other summon that is essentially useless across the board. Not sure why they ask for “feedback”. I’ve spent hours making several page write ups on how to make certain AI builds acceptable contenders without being overly frustrating to fight OR play, but it seems they always get ignored.
If you want a “Good job, we can pvp again!” You got it, good job. But this isn’t a design victory at all.
+1 After careful and proper thoughts I realize they do that for mostly everything and also sometimes they revert it but somewhere no one wants to go and don’t make it attractive and they call it genius and innovative, I predict a trait that prevents crit/condi on turrets above a threshold at some point maybe and maybe not. I should stop posting on this thread too much negativity can come from it, I’ll let the casual whiners have it.
Well, not that anyone cares, but this is basically along the same lines or handling MM and Guardian Spirits, they took the easy way out and deleted them. Such a shame. At this point turrets may as well be removed from the game, along with any other summon that is essentially useless across the board. Not sure why they ask for “feedback”. I’ve spent hours making several page write ups on how to make certain AI builds acceptable contenders without being overly frustrating to fight OR play, but it seems they always get ignored.
If you want a “Good job, we can pvp again!” You got it, good job. But this isn’t a design victory at all.
You’re right, fixing a long-time problem shouldn’t be hailed as a victory. Think of it more as “Game Polish”
Except it’s not. It ruined them, and everyone knows that. And we’ve all been frustrated with turrets, it’s fine to be happy that they will be much less of an issue now, but they did no design justice here. Turrets will not be in a “good place” from this, nor does it fix the ease of playing and design for 0 mobility, it simply took one of the few non-kit builds an engineer had and trashed it. It’s not a polish anything. If anything, they’re making more useless trash in their game that has no use across all 3 game types. This isn’t something to honor.
It’s an easy bandaid fix.
Oh! I wasn’t aware that this has already been implemented already! Good thing you experienced the change and extensively tested the impact it had already.
Did this previously have a longer cast time? I mean, I’m still kinda new to Warrior, but it doesn’t seem to have a cast time long enough to warrant that kind of strategy. I feel like I’d be getting “obstructed” more often than not while trying this strategy.
Well, not that anyone cares, but this is basically along the same lines or handling MM and Guardian Spirits, they took the easy way out and deleted them. Such a shame. At this point turrets may as well be removed from the game, along with any other summon that is essentially useless across the board. Not sure why they ask for “feedback”. I’ve spent hours making several page write ups on how to make certain AI builds acceptable contenders without being overly frustrating to fight OR play, but it seems they always get ignored.
If you want a “Good job, we can pvp again!” You got it, good job. But this isn’t a design victory at all.
You’re right, fixing a long-time problem shouldn’t be hailed as a victory. Think of it more as “Game Polish”
“We took 5 minutes to survey people outside the Wal-Marts in Redtown and Necksville, Alabama – asking if they like Obama. 11 out of 11 from each store said they hated that foreign-born muslim socialist. 11 out of 11 is 100% Therefore 100% of people everywhere ever dislike Obama!”
Turret that can bleed and be affected by poison? #gw2kittenLogic
Not the fact that bows have unlimited ammunition with no quiver, or that these flintlock style pistols and rifles are semi-automatic, or that attacking the left pinky toe of a 80 foot dragon will kill it, or that leaping through smoke and covering myself in ashes will somehow turn me invisible or….trails off
Exactly… these people who keep crying about broken “immersion” and is willing to sacrifice gameplay irritates me so much.
Conditions damage specs need some love. “A gate can’t bleed, you aren’t allowed to do any damage to it.”
smh
Also somehow a blunderbuss nailed to a wooden tripod has a heat-seeking sensor somewhere, using its hidden sophisticated supercomputer to maintain me as a target, making sure to turn no-clip mode on so my swords just pass right through its wooden base! WHY DO THE TURRETS HAVE ACCESS TO THE COMMAND CONSOLE #IMPULSE101 #IDDQD
Turret that can bleed and be affected by poison? #gw2kittenLogic
Not the fact that bows have unlimited ammunition with no quiver, or that these flintlock style pistols and rifles are semi-automatic, or that attacking the left pinky toe of a 80 foot dragon will kill it, or that leaping through smoke and covering myself in ashes will somehow turn me invisible or….trails off
Word entitled being passed around so much i feel like I’m at a trust fund baby convention. Lol. On a serious note, just don’t kitten with the guild. Is it that complicated? If they don’t want you, that is their choice. You people that troll because you get kitten, just keep being sub par. At no point during my time doing nothing but roam did I feel like screwing up someone’s skill group..why should you? Just more people to add to the “let die” list.
If you don’t like a sport team, do you run onto the field, steal the ball, then kitten midfield?
What are you thoughts on a guild asking someone to leave while they are attacking a keep/tower/camp?
If you just walk backwards and swing your weapon in most cases thief won’t have enough stealth time to backstab you, so he will wwaste it on facestab or just run out of stealth. SA thieves are sure annoying as hell, but backstab itself should be totally fine for anyone who played thief ever once.
Why the emphasis on backstab? Just a facestabbing thief can kill you and just stealth when you try to counter him. Facestab, stealth, facestab, stealth. You die either way.
Don’t pretend there’s a punishment for missing a backstab. It hardly matters.
There’s a team getting actual money to make sure things are balanced.
They needed to be sacked before the game got released. Stealth is the biggest mistake any game can make. I say this as a Dark Age of Camelot shadowblade (rogue) of four years.
Please don’t compare DAoC or WoW, or any other MMO stealth to GW2 stealth. They are not even close to similar.
Invisibility is invisibility.
Did you enjoy your shadowblade? You know, the one where you stealthed in the middle of combat (you attacked again immediately, right?) and regained some hp, making your opponent fumble after you did that? Regained some endurance there, did ya? Did the Hibs or Albs ever hit you when they swung their weapons without an in-range target? (cause “you must have a target” and “target not in range” weren’t a thing, ever, nope, right…?)
To those playing the home game – none of those things were possible in DAoC. A game where the only in-combat stealth had a cooldown of 5 minutes, and you couldn’t attack for 10 seconds after using it. Also where you couldn’t swing your weapon or cast a spell (unless pbaoe spell) without a target, or even if the target wasn’t in range. So, not even close.
Play an engie and find out. Because if you think the waterfield is broken on turret and you want to remove it you have little to no understanding of it.
I do play engi. You are also proving my point. EVERY engi runs healing turret. That means one of two things: it is either OP, or the other healing skills are weak. The actual answer is both.
It is the water field plus all the blasts that keep turret engis alive so long. It is also why cele rifle nade spam is so strong. Name one other change that would bring both turret engis and nade spam engis more in line….
Try again with waterfields. Considering good engies don’t blow it up and just pick them up in certain circumstances.
Also, cele and turrets have nothing to do with one another. And go compare healing turret with medi heals, troll ungent and some other heals.
He didn’t say anything about blowing up the turret. He mentioned only using blast finishers such as grenades on the water field that comes out of the turret.
Try again.
Sunfish actually did the the most efficient thing since proving a negative is kind of hard.
You’re asking him to prove that something doesn’t happen within a timespan. The only feasible way to present evidence of that is to provide video evidence with a timer in between air procs.
Even then he can’t prove it’s not happening, he can only provide a body of evidence that favors his claim. He is bringing it up on the forums for others and the devs to verify if it’s accurate, he could just have filled out a bug report, but this is more efficient in getting turn around since the forums have higher visibility.
Whether it’s actually an issue or not is irrelevant when reality is that this is one of the best ways to deliver the message if it is an issue since you can’t prove a negative and having other players back up your claim is the best kind of evidence you could provide unless you are capable of spending time to produce a video.
It’s already been explained twice in this post. Its not a “once every 3 second proc.” Sigil of air has a chance to proc, then you have wait 3 seconds for it to have another chance. Theres a good possibility that you can go a full 10 seconds only crits, and still not see a proc. 50% does not mean 1 out of every 2 crits are guaranteed to proc. 50% means each crit has the same 50% chance as the last.
That being said, using the same odds as winning the lottery, theres a chance you can go the rest of the game without ever seeing an air proc, even if you have 100% crit. Incredibly unlikely, yes, but still possible. ;p
Scaling is fine, stop being bitter that people other than level 80’s want to participate. He will have fun in a zerg and that’s all that matters.
OP: I have loads of fun playing uplevel’d characters in WvW, and you will too! Give it a go! Good luck out there.
Ok… we’ll try this again. Maybe you missed everything before my statement of “No scaling is not fine.” (and it’s not, btw)
If you want to compare apples to apples then compare a level 26 blue geared ranger to a level 80 exotic geared ranger. Or a level 26 thief (basic gear) to a level 80 thief (exotic gear). There’s a world of difference both in terms of how much damage you do and how much damage you can take.
Scaling is fine.
Just because you say it is so doesn’t make it true.
I’ve yet to hear your rebuttal on why you disagree.
Scaling is fine because:
It gives a player a taste of how WvW works
It does not instantly reward newly created characters by empowering to the same extent as characters that worked to get to level 80
It can absolutely be viable as with equal rarity gear equipped, you will be almost on par with level 80’s with the same quality gear, the only setback is the amount of trait points available to you. (level 20 rare (yellow) armor/weapons will scale to have the same stats as level 80 rare armor/weapons)
Uplevels only die quicker and do less damage when they enter WvW because they generally have blue/green armor and weapons and probably missing some accessories. And this is just fine, just as if a level 80 wandered into WvW with blue and green gear, they would die just as fast as an uplevel
