I want to give some credit to the SoS small man groups. I’ve run into some seriously challenging builds. I pride myself on being able to hold a circle for reinforcements, but a couple occasions you guys locked me down and clobbered me immediately.
Also, disengaging and resettting is not running away.
I think TC has been spending too much time with Maguma. They are starting to imitate one another.
The problem is, any match-up with SoR brings out the worst on the forums. BG/JQ have learned to tune out the SoR trolls after enduring more than half a year of their noise.
From my experience having faced both SoR/TC, TC are superior WvWers and has superior skill with lower numbers.
SoR (The fathers of the Full Map Zerg meta in the North American bracket) are superior is zerging, causing ability lag/mass disconnects/DDoS TS and other underhanded tactics to win their match-ups.
Seems you just described BG
You are clearly from SoR and your bias is showing
Most BG/JQ game threads excluding SoR are pretty civil. Also, the biggest exploit/griefing guild in the NA bracket resides on SoR
It’s the least I can do. Maybe I can help you guys get 5 kills next week?
I think Indo is making us do FOTM 5 next week. We struggled mightily to get through the first 4. TW will likely take the week off as it will truly require the whole team to handle this.
Pryan and Pathiss really have a hankering to get back into Orr as well.
Must have been a rough week at work to only play 20 mins. Hopefully things slow down for you next week so you can get some more play time in.
Raptr says I played 19hrs this week. You seem desperate Burl.
Obviously with a forum name like celeron he’s used to under powered, cheap overall bad performance. He’s probably just bitter from being useless for so long.
No, I think you are missing the point. A year of trolling and you cant even spot bait still. It’s fine though, I got the TW defense force to come out and reply to me eventually (I am missing a few though).
Yeah really what happened to SoR this week? They only led PPT until what? 2 days ago? they’ve only been rolling the opposition open field all week. As per usual down by about 20k on reset day.
It sounds to me like the problem is how you approach gameplay with your Engineer. If you don’t have any stability, then you shouldn’t be running in the middle of the zerg. Retaliation is really not that big of a problem. I have never been dealt more then maybe 25% of my health, by retaliation. On any profession. If retaliation is hitting you, stop dealing damage, and change targets.
Generally, medium armor professions aren’t made for big zerg support. They are a small group classes by default. However, that doesn’t mean they don’t belong in a zerg, it simply just means their role is different. Medium armor professions work best on the outer area of a fight, meaning you shouldn’t be running around in the middle, next to the Warrior and Guardian, spamming AoE skills all over. Your advantage as a medium armor profession, lies in your ability to move very quickly, and take out small groups of players in 3v1 fights. So once you see a zerg running towards you, run to the side, fire in on the zerg with your AoE, and then focus on taking out foes deviating from the zerg. If you get focus fired by two or three players, then try to lure them away, and keep their attention on you. Playing this way should give you a lot more success, as you’re then playing to the strength of the Engineer.
I have a big problem with the way people think zerg play works. You’re right in that you shouldn’t be crashing into the melee ball. however the nature of almost every zerg ball is to crash the melee trains into each other and the ranged to line out behind those melee trains. Engi’s and thieves are most effective flanking and getting behind the melee train to the back line and taking down as many back line enemy as possible. The great thing about engi’s is the mobility you can trait for which allows you to flank, harass and get back to safety when you need to reset.
Either you will kill the back line ranged support, or you take their attention off you melee train to allow the train to do more work. It’s especially helpful if you focus any Elementalist’s first. If you are really lucky, the enemy runs an organized melee train, but the ranged group is less organized.
2 x Stun breaks, tons of blinds and vulnerability stacking, some bleeding, some burning. Power and precision mostly.
I ran this last night all night in WvW and it performed pretty well in zerg play. Solo play was an adjustment as I still haven’t gotten the rotation down yet, but once I adjust I think it will play as well as my HgH build. There is a bit more button clicking involved. It’s my first time playing static discharge, which is a bit wonky.
I’ll probably switch Go For the Eyes out for Rifle Mod, and maybe Acidic Coating for Protection Injection. Melandru and Lemongrass work pretty well for conditions however I may experiment with changing sigil of Frailty to Generosity.
I noticed that even if only running with one other person (especially a thief), the vuln stacking is almost OP. I was putting up 15-20 stacks without any effort at all. I need to work on placement for Slick Shoes one trying to CC the front of an oncoming zerg, but the when I did get it right the Blind and Knockdown were pretty awesome. That does rely on getting stability from the melee train though.
I could see a case for a Perplexity engineer using Accelerant Packed Turrets and Deployable turrets to spread confusion. I tried it out the week the runes were released and had success, however it’s just not my style.
A server mate and I theory crafty a really tanky version of that build but I haven’t played it.
Engineers simply do not win a 1v1 fight against a good player, unless specifically built for 1v1. Our class is much harder to play than every other class, and can be countered with much less effort than we put in.
Couldn’t disagree more. I win the vast majority of my 1v1’s. Any class that is specced specifically for group support will probably have a harder time, but Engineers not winning 1v1’s because we’re inherently harder to play? Flat out false.
I think lots of players are getting used to the runes now and they are not as strong as when they first came out. They can be easily countered by stability, invun, and condition removal. Also with classes and builds like stun/lock cc wars, phant mesmer, necros, bm regen rangers and perma stealth thiefs these runes aren’t really op at all. It take some skill to land interups and it punish button mashers I think they are a nice addition to the game.
Its also very nice to see gc thiefs hs spam themself to dealth
^^ this.
I’m seeing a lot more people counter properly. The biggest advantage I see now is in zerg balls. Drop supply crate on a bunched up group, throw shield, run into the zerg and over charge shield 4, rocket boot out.
He already has inertial converter, which I assume is why he went 5 more into tools as toolkit shield is better than 5 points in firearms..
That’s kind of what I figured after thinking about it for a minute and it makes sense.
My last comment would be the gear. At least in T1 WvW you’ll get crucified running Berserker gear. This may change after the patch on the 17th when good servers will be rewarded for running more small mans (30 mans should be that max I would think). Even then though I probably wouldn’t run Berserker.
Honestly, if you’re a good Engineer and you are getting destroyed by Necromancer’s constantly, there’s not a super secret to go from zero to hero, lol. Sorry if you’re not satisfied with my suggestions to change your setup. :P
Nice post. The only thing I would suggest in your build is taking 10 from tools and putting it in firearms. Either sitting duck or precise sights. I think you’ll get more bang for the buck that way. At the very least move 5 points if you really want the toolbelt recharge.
Thinking about it, I guess if you really want the quicker recharge it’s worth it. That would be for attrition battles. I have found the vulnerability is really helpful in ending battles quicker though.
Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have.
And thats bad? If someone builds to do direct-damage you dont expect to mitigate 100% of it. Why is it a problem if you cannot mitigate all conditions? You do realize dd is much weaker with these skills right? And that condition damage is the main source of damage, right?
That’s your idea of balance?
Spot on. You don’t have to mitigate it all, just enough to kill your opponent before he kills you.
Right but as it stands in terms of itemization, you can literally have the best offensive and defensive stats one each piece of gear with the new Dire Set. Sooo… you are maximizing mitigation while maximizing damage. There needs to be some sacrifice somewhere and I’m just not seeing it.
The sacrifice was that we went a year without the set.
Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have.
And thats bad? If someone builds to do direct-damage you dont expect to mitigate 100% of it. Why is it a problem if you cannot mitigate all conditions? You do realize dd is much weaker with these skills right? And that condition damage is the main source of damage, right?
That’s your idea of balance?
Spot on. You don’t have to mitigate it all, just enough to kill your opponent before he kills you.
I would add one more point on that list.
Make boons and abilities prioritize your party members while in range, then everyone else. That change alone could add so much depth to fights…
P.S No, it doesn’t work that way now, its random.
Really? Then why do people want to party up so much? What are the benefits? (an honest question)
For one thing, the blue dots make it much easier to keep track of and coordinate with your party.
Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have. Most skills only remove 1-3 conditions per use and have cooldowns of 20 seconds or longer. In groups condis get a lot easier to deal with due to group cleansing, but it is totally out of control for small fights.
I only play 2 classes at the moment, and my main is an Engineer. My Guardian is level 70 at the moment. Both classes it’s pretty trivial to trait for very good condition removal that does keep up with most application. The problem I see with most people I fight is they use all their condition removal at once instead of spreading it out, or just don’t carry any at all.
I run an HgH Elixir build with 409 traited, the only time I get killed by condition spam is when I’m fighting a Necro and I stop paying attention.
Also, dodge and block are your friends, then you don’t get the condition to remove in the first place.
The ppl who defend this kitten are absolutely hilarious.
Not NEARLY as funny as the people whining about it.
“Oh no, I can’t faceroll everything in the game anymore!”
Get some condition removal, and maybe try ROLLING a Necro, Ranger, or Engie, so you can see how their skills work, and which to avoid. Watch some youtube vids of Condi tanks “pwning noobs,” and then play defensively with that in mind.
hi I rolled all of the above
on all 3 classes I have less than half the time on my guardian. Im also really good on my guardian. Howver with the exception of going against high burst on my engi, I can easily win almost every single 1v1 using the above 3 condi builds.
maybe you’re the one who should try to roll a melee DD build and try to fight a condi spam build (protip, except for specced warrs, you can’t)
I also kittening Lol’d when you said “play defensively” against condis. that’s step one to getting your kitten whooped HARD.
Why would I want to? I don’t care about your profession, I like my main. Besides, if you weren’t so worried about your DPS, you might be able to stack condition clearing. So cute when you DD Melee types can’t be bothered to use anything but DPS gear. Lol.
I know who you are, Moobs, and your tears taste delicious.
and what if I told you I run every possible condi removal on guardians except 1 passive every 10s (that takes 30 trait points in a line I don’t use)?
yeah you can go back into your hole now
What if I told you I think you’re doing it wrong? Where’s your hole?
The most hilarious part, as you should probably know as a cond. engineer. Is that the cond. engineer hasnt changed much at all since launch.
It got a couple of nerfs, a little buff. All in all its been in pretty much the same spot for over a year now.
And all of a sudden, very recently, Conditions are an issue and need to be fixed. And yet every example comes down to “so, this Necro…” And then follows a suggestion or demand that would nerf all conditions across the board. Even on builds that are bad, or have never been an issue.
People are projecting the issue with Necro’s and the Perplexity runes upon ALL condition builds.
Thats like nerfing Guardians because Thieves backstab for to much damage.
That’s really my point, nothing has changed except for some minor introductions. I run HgH and 409, specifically to counter what appears to be the new Necro Meta.
Are Runes of Perplexity OP? In the right hands they are, but they same can be said for any build in the hands of a skilled player.
Too many biased comments to respond to. I’ll just say as a condition based Engi I understand the mechanic. When I run into other players who understand the mechanic the fights are interesting. There seems to be a lot of “I want to run this specific build and I can’t counter purpose built specs in my build”. Well, that’s your choice. I only run one stun break because my build is overall stronger for it. When I run into chain stun locks, I better up my game, because it’s going to be a challenge.
If you are running into a lot of conditions, maybe learn to counter it with a difference in your build, or run.
“OMG, you hit Bay while there was a GvG going on” “OMG, BT killed people in WvW” “OMG, a guild is using arrowcarts to defend a tower”
Bunch of carebears…
[oPP] Cheers to your guild being the bane of my solo roaming camp flipping existence. :-) You guys do a good job.
Oh, and to all the thieves I knocked out of Shadow Refuge last night, I wish I could see the looks on your faces. Especially the 3 man troll group at south Hills.
So, Tuesday night Kelo decided to record and make his first video ever. I think the trolling is cute in the video. SF had an offense of 26 members, and a total of 34 online on the map. SG had just left the map and SoR appeared to want to dance w/us, so here we tango! The remaining 8 were running havoc and scouting spawn tower and north hills. This was the most hardcore fight that we were involved in this week. We had to bail before the fight was over, apparently BG thought it was a great idea to setup 5 trebs in NE supply camp. Razethh and I were pretty much giving each other the Good Game after the fight. He told me that they brought three teams and kept splitting on us which was extremely hard to keep up with.
In some of the parts you will notice the field movements, but from a Kelo perspective it is hard to see just how coordinated the attacks were from the SoR teams. We had spawn advantage which helped, but we were reluctant to not do a full wipe in the camp and stay mobile with at least 15 on the tag and alive. Vic was calling the primary fight, at one point he did get downed and I had to take over calling.
This fight lasted almost 15 minutes and was a non-stop kite fest mixed with, “OH GOD kitten IT THEY ARE DOING THE THING WITH THE THING AGAIN!” “RALLY RALLY RALLY BRRWRRAAAAAAAAAAAAA.” Apparently Vic likes to use the term, “drop the baby” these days, which added hilarity to the fight, because we were “dropping the baby on chokes.”
Want to Buy Sanctum of Rall players that don’t go to amazing lengths to run away from me in WvW, I am not that scary am I? This happens enough I may make my next video just me chasing people around the kitten map for hours on end, I don’t let cowards just run away without a fight!
OP is right. Engineer is in a very bad place atm for guild vs guild or zerg vs zerg. It’s not because engineer could not have any use – but for the current meta, engineers are a weak spot in your team.
Theory crafted a Perplexity, 3x Turret, Bomb Kit (for BoB). Used it in Zerg, worked great. As far as I can tell, Confusion damage doesn’t come back to you on retal.
3x turret in zerg? Are we playing the same game? BoB against stability? What’s so great with it? Also our most occasions for interrupts are close range or melee range – mesmer can stack confusion with much more ease.
OP is right. Engineer is in a very bad place atm for guild vs guild or zerg vs zerg. It’s not because engineer could not have any use – but for the current meta, engineers are a weak spot in your team.
Theory crafted a Perplexity, 3x Turret, Bomb Kit (for BoB). Used it in Zerg, worked great. As far as I can tell, Confusion damage doesn’t come back to you on retal.
I’m going to ask what may be an obvious question, but I’m a solo roamer so I may not get the meta. All these videos show Elementalist’s throwing static fields at the beginning of the fights. Every video also shows stability being used to counter right at the beginning. Is this just to put the stability skills on cooldown? Since something as simple as Stand your Ground is on a 10 second shorter cooldown doesn’t that defeat the purpose? Is the idea just to hope to catch someone sleeping?
