Guild Wars 2

Taruvoyant.4318:

The bottom line is it’s a niche skill. In an incredibly small niche at that. Is it a good skill? Sure. Is it perfect? No. Is it worth a spot on your utility bar over other skills? Most likely not.

Yes, it’s a niche skill. Yea, it’s also quite a small niche.

But would you NOT take this skill when the situation calls for it?

I don’t slot in this skill 90% of the time. However, in specific fractals (Dredge, Grawl boss, Colossal, just off the top of my head) I carry it with me, because I find it invaluable because people are very likely to die there.

I guess my point is, I have a problem with people (like you, I suppose) saying “It’s not worth a spot in my utility bar.”

What is this spot? Are you only allowed to use 3 utilities for every situations? You’re given the ability to swap out utilities whenever not in combat. You agree that it has its uses. So why not slot in this skill, when the situation calls for it?

Forgive me for my mini off-topic rant, but I feel adaptability is of a huge importance in this game and it’s something that lot of people do not take advantage of.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

My Sweet Lily.1952:

Believe me, it doesn’t work if the pet is dead.
1.Many times I have accidentally used SnR, while my pet is dead, only to see my pet run to the ally, but doesn’t do anything.
2.I have been ressed by a pet of my ally, but as soon as the pet died, while trying to ress me, the pet stopped. It stayed on top of my body, but didn’t do anything.

Is the skill worth taking over other skills tho? Even if it works.

In certain situations, a definite yes. Especially in fractals, where if one party member gets defeated (not downed) you greatly increase the chances of your party wiping and having to re-do something.

EDIT: On a somewhat off-topic rant, I feel players should really get out of a static mindset and really learn to be able to adapt to situations. Instead of running 2 weapons and 3 utility/1 elite for every situation, swapping out weaps/changing out utilities depending on the situation.

I feel like asking “is skill A better than skill B” is a misleading question. Sure, in most situations, A can be better than B. But there’s still going to be some specific situations in which B is just more handy to have. And I think SnR really falls under this category.

FourTwenty.4268:

so they’re ‘innovative’ and ‘cutting edge’ when they get rid of the trinity everyone uses, or gets rid of ‘vertical progression’ that companies use to keep people grinding, or even when they get rid of the standard fetch quests.

BUT, when it comes to this. they have to be just like ‘every successful company’ right?

sounds very very one sided, and saying that only labels you as a fanboy. im all for guild wars 2 and hope it does well. but im not vapid enough just sit by and not question things when i think or feel they’re out of place

just seems funny that they can be ‘good guy anet’ on this and that topic. but when it comes to using a lame marketing tactic to make you spend more money than you want, then it’s ok and they can still be ‘good guy anet’

The difference is that being “innovative” and “cutting edge” in gameplay also is leading to business success.

Innovative and cutting edge gameplay → good business
Standard market practices → good business.

I see no problem here…

I want to +1 my support for SnR. I run it all the time on certain fractals now.

BTW Kasama, I never tried it before, but you say it works even when it’s dead? I have a few questions for you.

If my pet is alive when I use it, but dies, will it continue rezzing?

If my pet was already dead, will it rez without any interruptions?

Is there any difference using a dead/alive pet to do the rez?

I wonder if it’s better to start the rez with a dead pet, or with an alive one.

Also I dunno if you pointed this out, but other combat rezzes only work on DOWNED and not DEFEATED states. SnR works on DEFEATED, which makes it wonderful to bring in Fractals.

Great post Erasculio, I wish I can link people to your post everytime someone brings up the “Anet wants us to buy Gems” conspiracy…

tigirius.9014:

Die less is not an option as an engineer unless you are all shields all the time in which case each fight with a normal mob lasts days. (i do not wish to return to the days of healy priests in vanilla wow or early loremasters in lotro thanks, combat should not be nerfed like that)

I don’t know how you play and what kind of modes you play, but die less is definitely an option for an Engy without a shield. Just from your post, I feel like you should really learn about the dodging mechanics and positioning yourself to avoid damage. Engi is mostly ranged anyways, so it’s even easier to survive.

Here’s to another year of constant hyperbole by posters here whose minds only work in extremes.

Casey.9687:

Ursan.7846:

Casey.9687:

I just don’t understand why they play around the truth like this….why can’t Jon Peters or any other dev get on here and give us a firm answer on why they continue to keep the nerf on it…Because they didn’t want us spamming 1 is a horrible excuse because we are still spamming 1 while other skills are on cd….they just made spamming 1 slower for no reason.

I’m not sure what you mean by “play around the truth.” They gave a pretty firm answer in why they nerfed Crossfire (they don’t want to encourage spamming 1 gameplay), like you said.

So the original answer being a animation issue we just forget about that? We called them out on it and they had to come up with a better answer which wasn’t really all that better. Anet lies…..best get used to it buddy

There’s two issues at hand.

1. They nerfing the Crossfire’s firing rate, because they “Didn’t want to promote 1-spamming.” Which is a delibrate nerf, and they gave a pretty clear explanation on why.

2. Then there’s Crossfire and QZ not working very together, which they call an animation bug.

1. I’m okay with. I don’t like it, but I understand.

2. I have mild suspicions that this was an intended nerf, but they also gave a pretty clear reason (animation bug) for this. You can choose to believe them or no, but you shouldn’t accuse them of not giving us answers when in actuality it’s just you choosing not the believe in them.

Casey.9687:

I just don’t understand why they play around the truth like this….why can’t Jon Peters or any other dev get on here and give us a firm answer on why they continue to keep the nerf on it…Because they didn’t want us spamming 1 is a horrible excuse because we are still spamming 1 while other skills are on cd….they just made spamming 1 slower for no reason.

I’m not sure what you mean by “play around the truth.” They gave a pretty firm answer in why they nerfed Crossfire (they don’t want to encourage spamming 1 gameplay), like you said.

Pretty much agreed with the conclusion.

hharry.1967:

So this is ridiculous, stand for 1 or 2 mins at any ore vein at timberline falls and random people appears and dissapears to mine it, not just 1, i have counted prolly more than 20 in the last few hours of leveling in this area, and i cant report them, seriously whats wrong with ANet? People hacks like this and no one cares…

You remember a few months ago? When you had the ranger/bear bot trains? People were shouting and yelling, “ANet why are you not banning the bots?” Lo and behold, after a mass ban later, people simply stopped talking about them.

They are working on it. They care, and they are working on it. They are fully aware of the problem already. Threads like this do not contribute in anyway to their effort to combat bots.

Copy/paste the link into your URL.

teviko.6049:

Frontier.2536:

All this could be avoided by simply implementing normal trade window between players (like in ANY MMORPG out there – it obviously isn’t rocket science) – but noooo we have to implement silly toys and holiday events first !

But then, people wouldn’t use the TP. If you use te TP, you get taxed, which is a money sink, which means money goes ‘POOF’ which means people will want to make even MORE money, which means they will cave and buy gems from the gem shop and convert to gold.

Without taxes, there is no incentive to buy gems from cash shop. Simply, A.Net loses their revenue. So, there will be no trading between players

No. Completely false. You have to have gold sinks in the game to combat inflation. If the net flow of gold into the economy > gold sinks, gold becomes worthless and prices of everything goes up.

Someone posted an incredibly useful post about specific cut offs for condition duration. Mainly for bleeds. But the gist of it is that since condition damage only ticks per second, unless you reach that threshold any condition duration is wasted.

Why? It’s true…

Me too. But Crossfire currently is so OP compared to the rest of our weapon skills. I’m suspecting that it was a “nerf” that they just refuse to admit.

No evidence of course. But sigh…

First of all, calling out an Anet staffer in the thread title isn’t recommended.

Second of all, I’m sure they understand the problem, and are working on it. It’s not like they’re not aware of the problem and not working on it if they don’t say anything.

@Gryphon: You know, it’s not being “Passive-aggressive” when she tells you exactly what she’s meaning to tell you. Namely in this case, you can’t say these certain things…

Ath.2531:

Just my point of view: The concept of “free-market” is what allowed every single recession to take place. Do we need to follow it?

What would a “recession” in a game economy mean?

A recession in the real-world means a slow-down of economic activity. Less people purchasing things, and since our economy is a consumer-driven economy, this leads to companies downsizing, laying people off, and those laid off workers not spending on leisure spending, etc. etc…

You won’t have that in game, because GW2’s economy isn’t a consumer-driven economy. A majority of your wages for many players are completely independent of the market. Also, you don’t have any bills to pay. Most of the gold sinks in this game are optional (TP, WP) while others are very negligible (death -> WP). And besides, doing normal activities (questing, dungeoning) will easily cover most expenses.

So no, a “recession” will never happen to the GW2 economy. To argue against the free market in GW2 because of it is silly.

EDIT: Surbrus’s posts are full of wonderful insight and knowledge. Please read them.

Fjandi.2516:

Is never an overkill. Mix high tough/vit with dodges and protection and it won’t be easy at all to kill you.

Since we have limited stats at our disposal, there’s an opportunity cost to spending everything on defensive stats. Especially with the way numbers are calculated, the higher you have of a stat, the less efficient spending more points into that stat becomes. So yes, there can be overkill.

Fjandi.2516:

Ofc you may ask “What’s the point? Your dmg is bad” wrong i have over 2k power in spvp and my pet hits hard, and with hard i mean HARD. Also even if your crit is low you can boost it with fury. Actually some ppl i played against even asked me if i was specced glasscannon…

The point isn’t your damage is “bad,” it’s that it can be a lot better. As I said, you can give up a little bit of survivability and get a lot more damage, comparatively, for that.

You know, it’s good that you like your (I’m assuming, from your posts) full soldiers set. But, for the OP’s purposes, he’s running 10 pts in beastmastery and wants to WvW, so using pets as your main source of damage isn’t really recommended. Full Soldier’s is just….something I highly recommend against, IMO.

kitteno.8103:

This is clearly an issue. Players are being punished for a certain taste in skins. For choosing Exotic N over Exotic D or Legendary S instead of Legendary B.

Imagine if all Ascended rings would cost 10 tokens except for pov/crit/vit, which would cost 100 tokens. Would it be fair?

Analogy doesn’t work, because people obviously are not going for those exotics for the “stats.”

Fjandi.2516:

Ursan.7846:

I usually do not recommend full soldier’s equipment (pwr/tough/vit) because you sacrifice a ton of damage due to the lack of crits.

I usually do not recommend a non full-soldier’s equipment (pwr/tough/vit) because you sacrifice a ton of survivability due to the lack of vitality. Point of views.

Sorry, but this annoys me as you’re attacking a strawman argument. I don’t like full soldiers. That doesn’t mean I’m endorsing a full berserker build. Heck I don’t recommend a full zerkers set as well.

Also I’d like to point out when you say non full-soldier’s, there’s other sets that give you vit/toughness too, you know, like Valkyries/Rabid. The problem with Soldiers is that it has 2 defensive stats. Going everything with Soldiers is somewhat overkill. Best to mix and match, and find where your own sweet spot is.

Kasama.8941:

You can get a ton of precision/critical damage from your weapons, accessories, jewels, and runes, it’s not really a problem. Survivability in WvW is much more important then it is in PvE or sPvP.

Of course, but when the OP said a “set” I just imagined full Soldiers (weapon/armor/trinkets). Which is, again, you’re sacrificing loads of damage.

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Ursan.7846:

I believe sword does the most physical damage out of all our weapons. Of course you have to live with the downside of being melee…

What is this downside you speak of? From what I know is the melee Ranger has incredible mobility unmatched by other professions if you use the skills in an evasive manner. 1h sword can stick to stealthed players if you’re lucky and you don’t have to watch a mass of Obstructed all day.

OP, I suggest you play with sword/dagger until you realize the effectiveness of it. It’s hardly wasted space.

Well obviously there pros/cons of being melee/ranged. One of the pros of ranged damage is being able do damage from a relatively safe distance. Like you wouldn’t use a sword if you’re up against lupi or a big Zerg in wvw.

I’m not saying ranged is better than melee at all. I carry a sword myself in my inventory, but you just have to understand when to use what.

I believe sword does the most physical damage out of all our weapons. Of course you have to live with the downside of being melee…

Hmm. I usually do not recommend full soldier’s equipment (pwr/tough/vit) because you sacrifice a ton of damage due to the lack of crits. Also rangers have a moderately high base hp (15000ish)

As for sigil/runes… What weapons are you using?

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

Can you provide specific examples of non-soloable events? At scale 1, they’re all soloable, or should be. Are other players in the area scaling up the event without helping?

Hi Jeff,

One event that is unsoloable is the end of the event chain that unlocks CoE. Where you have to kill the inquest champion commander. The platforms you fight him on has two distinct groups that is blocked by the dungeon entrance which is inaccessible. If you are fighting the champ on one side, and he teleports to the other, he resets and recovers his hp because the player can’t tag him in time.

Unless you get lucky and have him constantly teleporting on platforms near each other, it’s nigh impossible to solo.

So I had a few questions for the new rewards system in fractals.

By “Rewards,” does this include all monster loot/chest/daily chest?

So say a lvl 24, a lvl 12 char, and a lvl 2 char do a lvl 12 fractal. I’m assuming the lvl 12 and the lvl 24 will get the tier 2 daily chest, but will the lvl 2 get the tier 1 daily chest?

And will the lvl 2 get loot from monsters as if he’s doing a lvl 2 fractal, instead of a lvl 12 fractal?

Thanks for clearing things up.

I have some calculations of Longbow vs Shortbow damage out there. I’m super lazy right now, but search for one of my research posts and I should have a link.

In pure damage wise, Longbow only slightly edges out the Shortbow in terms of pure damage. But in sPvP, you have to think about how longbow damage relies on distance, and at long distances (max damage) the more likely you are to get “OBSTRUCTED” Also Barrage is a stationary channel skill. Which is a humongous negative to otherwise a great skill.

But yea, Shortbow all the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ax-_06Acj8Y#t=249s

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Are you forgetting that trickshot bounces so its also aoe? It hits like 5 people, and even if its cast time is shorter its damage is greater which makes it atleast equal on single targets, cluster bomb isnt bad at all, its hard to see in the air if you are busy with a group fight but you definitely feel it when it blows up.

1. Trickshot hits a maximum of 3 targets.
2. On single target, Crossfire’s rate of fire makes it do about 36% more damage than Trick shot (Numbers in my previous post)

Aridia.3042:

So you’re saying rifle volley does more than killshot? Sorry I stopped reading right there. You should go play the game sometime.

Mmmk, I think I’ll quit while I’m ahead as I’ve wasted enough time on this thread.

I’m actually trying to have a serious discussion here. But thanks for ignoring the majority of my posts, ignoring actual numbers provided by the game, and going for the petty personal insults.

Attached is screenshot of the tooltips of Volley and Killshot, with the same equipment. No, it’s not doctored in any way. You can look at the numbers yourself if you have a warrior. 2610 for Volley, 1784 for Kill Shot.

Besides, even if we are to assume Kill Shot did more damage than Volley, Volley will still be better than Kill Shot in situation #2, where the target dodges. The target will dodge 100% of the Kill Shot damage, but unless he blows 2 dodges, he won’t dodge all of Volley’s damage. This situation will be the same regardless whether Killshot does more damage than Volley or not. Thus your point is moot, and my point still stands.

And this situation is why the statement, “single-load damage is ALWAYS better than channeled damage” is false. “Single-load damage is SOMETIMES better than channeled damage.” is a true statement, and the distinction I’m trying to point out.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Shortbow-vs-Longbow-Damage-Calculations/first

Is C crit damage or condition damage? Either way, the answers you seek is all in that thread!

Theoretically, if you understand the dungeon mechanics, you can get away with full zerkers and avoid everything.

In practice, that’s not gonna happen. Even the best of us will sometimes slip and get hit.

I personally use a mix of Rabid/Carrion gear for the toughness/vit. Does it help? Not always, as the big hits from some bosses (Alpha, Lupicus) still 1-shots me. But it does allow me to survive longer in most situations. And as a poster above me said, a downed person means 2 people not DPSing.

Aridia.3042:

This was originally a discussion about multiple vs single payload for physical damage in the context of the longbow so it’s not about conditional dmg. Not sure why you’re trying to change the subject.

Ursan.7846:

So, one of the assumptions I make (that I did not mention) is that sustained dps usually does more damage over a longer period of time, when compared to burst damage.

One of the yardsticks I use is Killshot vs Volley. It’s the same concept. One big hit vs channeled long hit. Killshot, at lvl 3 adrenaline, does 792 damage in one shot. Volley does 11kittenage after a 2.5s channel time.

What does this mean? It means that in situation A, when the target has more health than the Killshot can burst down, the channeled skill is usually better because it does, overall, more damage. It might not even take that much longer when you consider the channeling time for Killshot.

Also in situation B, if you dodge the killshot, you do 0 damage. If you dodge the first half of Volley, the latter half still hits and it still does a bit of damage. Thus channeled skill is again, better.

Let me distill that for you. Numbers based on Warrior Rifle shots, because it’s the best example we have for single-attack vs channeled attacks.

Situation 1: Where target has more hp than burst dmg.
Killshot + 1 autoattack will hit for 155 + 792 = 947 dmg
Volley will hit for 1160 dmg.

Volley wins.

Situation 2: Where target dodges.
Killshot + 1 autoattack: target will dodge Killshot, hit autoattack. 155 dmg.
Volley, if target dodges half of it, will do 580 dmg.

Volely wins.

Aridia.3042:

Again, sustained DPS is what’s associated with PVE…people care about this, particularly in other mmos because they want the most efficient way to lvl. PVP is not about dragged out fights, it’s about incapacitating the opponent in the quickest way. Which is why spiky moves are preferred.

Bunker builds don’t change this fact because you can’t solo them anyway so when another teammate shows up, it’s still burst that’s preferred to sustained damage when you gang up on him.

I’m not sure what kind of time scale we’re talking about here. In 3 seconds, you’ll fire off a killshot + autoattack, or you can fire off a volley. Volley does more damage over 3 seconds. Volley + autoattack will do more damage over 8 seconds compared to Killshot + autoattack. And 30 seconds. And a minute if you’d like. And this is completely ignoring differences in mobile channeling vs stationary channeling, differences in CD, the need to charge adrenaline (or devote utilities/traits to adrenaline skills) etc. etc.

Note: The reason why I bring up condition damage is because from the sound of it, you’re talking about timescales that range from 30s-1 minute…In which case Channeled vs Single-Shot comparison is really moot, and it becomes more of a condition damage vs physical damage argument. But I digress….

Now, this doesn’t mean I’m saying Volley > Killshot. Just as I rage at how saying “Killshot > volley always,” Volley is not always better than Killshots. In different situations, different skills will be better, and that is my core point.

Aridia.3042:

And Killshot has an 8 second refresh if you missed. It’s not that long…

Volley also has a 8s cooldown, with a trait that all Wars who use Rifles as their main weapon has. Killshot has a 8s cooldown only with a 30pt Grandmaster trait that not all Rifle Wars have. Your point is moot.

EDIT: All numbers taken from GW2 wiki.

Grakor.3450:

Ursan.7846:

3. I feel like this is part of a bigger problem with Ranger trait design. It does not feel cohesive, with traits for condition damage (trap builds, bleed on crit, etc…) not being in the condition damage tree, and damage trait for GS being useless if you want to go a Nature Magic-less GS dps build. There’s just no synergy. I guess the devs have noted the problem, and we can only hope some kind of overhaul is coming.

I think this is a problem with expectations than the design of the traits themselves. I’ll toss you a non-Ranger example here: Guardians have a trait in Valor (their toughness/tanky line) that increases damage from maces by 5% called Mace of Justice. Yes, that’s a damage trait in a defensive trait line, but I believe that’s not the point. The point is that it provides a buff to a weapon that tanky Guardians are most likely going to use, because the mace is the healing/defensive weapon, which coincides with the defensive trait line. Since traits can be swapped freely, it’s likely thrown in so that tanky Guardians can trait in some more damage when they feel that they need it.

That’s the same for Rangers. Greatsword is the tankiest and most defensive weapon they have, which is probably why their traits are put into Wilderness Survival and Nature Magic. It’s giving the boost to the trait lines that are the most likely to use the weapon.

That’s a very good point actually. After reading your post, it actually makes sense and goes in line with (what I believe) is Anet’s philosophy. That pure healing is obsolete in this game and even if you want to build tanky, you still need to contribute to DPS.

Aridia.3042:

Well, none of the situations you’ve mentioned is rapid fire better than a single payload snipe. In fact, it never is because even if you substitute rapid fire for snipe in your cases, you’ll get even worse outcomes. Moreover, no one cares about constant DPS aside from PVE, because people are not dumb like mobs that’ll sit there and eat your whole volley. All things being equal, single payload is always better in pvp because of the faster time to kill.

So, one of the assumptions I make (that I did not mention) is that sustained dps usually does more damage over a longer period of time, when compared to burst damage.

One of the yardsticks I use is Killshot vs Volley. It’s the same concept. One big hit vs channeled long hit. Killshot, at lvl 3 adrenaline, does 792 damage in one shot. Volley does 11kittenage after a 2.5s channel time.

What does this mean? It means that in situation A, when the target has more health than the Killshot can burst down, the channeled skill is usually better because it does, overall, more damage. It might not even take that much longer when you consider the channeling time for Killshot.

Also in situation B, if you dodge the killshot, you do 0 damage. If you dodge the first half of Volley, the latter half still hits and it still does a bit of damage. Thus channeled skill is again, better.

This is not even considering conditions, which isn’t burst damage, which goes through protection/toughness, and is much better than burst in situation C.

If a skill like Snipe is implemented, I imagine the damage will be balanced to be similar to Killshot/Volley. If it’s going to do more damage, it’s going to be balanced with a longer charge time, which is even more negative to this skill.

Aridia.3042:

All things being equal, single payload is always better in pvp because of the faster time to kill.

I hate hate hate it when people say “always.” Because things never are that simple. I play Guardian for sPvP. I’ve laughed away many killshots with Aegis/dodge. I smile as a thief tries to backstab me with all my toughness and protection. And I cry when a Caltrop thief comes in and bleeds me to death slowly. As a bunker, I run away with fear from Necros/Rangers who I know will slowly condition me to oblivion, because my protection/aegis/toughness will be absolutely no help to it.

Are there situations where burst is better? OF COURSE. Is is most of the time better? Debatable. Is burst ALWAYS better? NO. It is not.

I specifically have to disagree about Ranger Shortbow #1/2 vs Thief Shortbow #1/2. Especially Crossfire vs Trickshot.

Ranger Shortbow 1 has a firing rate of (from what I observe) 58 shots in 30s. Or about 1.9 shots/sec. Thief’s shortbow 1 has a rate of about 31 shots in 30s. Or about 1.03 shots/sec.

Ranger’s shortbow 1 does 134 dmg. Thief’s shortbow 1 does 185 dmg.

Which comes out to a dps of about 259 dmg/sec for Crossfire, 191 dmg/sec for Trickshot. This is in suboptimal situation, with no bleed for Crossfire and only one target for Trickshot.

If you add the bleed stacks that Crossfire is capable of stacking (7 stacks), it doubles Shortbow’s DPS (source: my shortbow vs longbow tests.) If Trickshot sees 2 targets, then it will do double the damage. So even in optimal vs optimal situations, Crossfire wins handily.

So which optimal situation happens more frequently? It depends on what you do a lot. I dungeon a lot, so I am in a lot of situations where I’m just wailing away at a single boss. Also, multiple targets isn’t a condition you can control, while position you can. Lack of ranged single-target dps is the biggest reason why I stop playing my thief.

As for Clusterbomb, that thing is just so unwieldly as hell to use it. The flight time is so, so long. Yes, it does tremendous damage. Yes it’s a blast finisher. But any moving target will easily dodge unless you lead it. And for single-target DPS, if you poison volley at close range and make all 5 hit, you do a good bunch of damage.

Clusterbomb has its uses. It’s a spammable AoE that does a good chunk of damage. Personally, I’ll take it over Volley/Barrage any day for WvW. But Crossfire…man Crossfire is so good, and I think you severely underestimate it.

Avalon.4809:

How hard could be fixing a terrain bug?

It’s pretty difficult. The last fix they attempted completely broke jumping.

They undid that, but one should not simplify the complexities of software bugs.

thrice.9184:

That much should be understood, however thats not how Anet see’s it. Seeing how A warrior with a GS will out-damage any ranger with a GS its not really fair no?

Well yea, but I’d like to see a Warrior block/daze fools with his GS.

Aridia.3042:

It’s not rocket science. Single payload is always superior to multiple because of the spike. You can’t out heal or out pot a single burst because you’re not giving the opponent a chance to mitigate the damage. Spike is what wins pvp generally.

(e.g. Target has 7k HP. Snipe hits for 7k, he’s dead. Rapid fire hits for 1.5k each. He dodges 2, heals part way through for and runs out of range. Target lives.)

No, it’s not rocket science, but it’s not so simple either. Burst damage is not always better to sustained DPS. There’s certain situations where it’s better, and there’s others where it’s not. I wish people would stop simplifying things and making blanket statements based on simplified situations.

E.g. Target has 10k health. Snipe hits for 7k. Target proceeds to heal and laughs as you do pitiful damage because your Snipe is on cooldown.

E.g. Target has 7k HP. Targets sees you charge Snipe. He dodges snipe. He laughs as you do pitiful damage because your Snipe is on cooldown.

E.g. Target has 4000 toughness and protection buff, your snipe does 3k damage. But your bleeds kill him because hey, it isn’t affected by toughness/protection!

ALL these situations happen. Now I’m not saying Rapid Shot most definitely >>> Snipe, but saying “Snipe (theoretical) is always better than Rapid Shot” is silly silly silly.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Let’s say that hitting someone is a 50% chance of happening, whether the person dodges, goes out of range, gets obstructed etc (even though that is untrue and impossible to calculate) Snipe is basically a 50% chance of doing big damage on someone, now don’t forget that that is ALL the damage of snipe.

Rapid fire on the other hand has to land basically all the hits to do OKAY damage, see what im getting at here?

No, I don’t get what you’re getting at, because the points being made in your posts are inconsistent and I have no idea what your point is.

NaturalPortman.9562:

I would love to have a “finisher” type move on longbow, or even more CC. Rapid fire feels so clunky and the damage is horrible as a dodge roll basically negates all of the damage it does.

You first post this. You state that Rapid Fire’s damage is horrible BECAUSE opponents can dodge roll.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Snipe would be more reliable in any situation if you ask me the problem with rapid fire is that any kind of interruption to the shots makes the skill useless and you are better off looking at the opposite direction to cancel it. Snipe on the other hand (if it existed) you hit the guy ? great you just took off a big chunk of his health, you missed the guy? oh well let me use my other tools.

Then you post things like this, implying

1. Rapid Shot can be interrupted but Snipe can’t?
2. Replacing Rapid Shot with Snipe somehow makes your “other tools” magically better?

Then your subsequent post seem to imply that Rapid Fire has “okay” damage period, even if it all hits, and that Snipe is superior because it does more damage in one hit. More than all the Rapid Fire’s hits combined.

That’s a perfectly fine point to make. “I like Snipe, because it (theoretically) does more damage than Rapid fire.” Or, “I like Snipe, because I think burst damage is better.”

But your original post basically implied that Snipe was superior to Rapid Fire BECAUSE Rapid Fire can be dodged. And then you said that Snipe is better because Rapid Fire can be interrupted, and your “other tools” if you missed with Snipe is somehow better than Rapid Fire. All of which make no sense to me.

So no, I am not getting what you’re trying to tell me.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Snipe would be more reliable in any situation if you ask me the problem with rapid fire is that any kind of interruption to the shots makes the skill useless and you are better off looking at the opposite direction to cancel it. Snipe on the other hand (if it existed) you hit the guy ? great you just took off a big chunk of his health, you missed the guy? oh well let me use my other tools.

Sorry if I’m misunderstanding anything, but your logic (as I understand it) makes no sense.

NaturalPortman.9562:

problem with rapid fire is that any kind of interruption to the shots makes the skill useless

If Rapid Fire can be interrupted, Snipe can’t? I’m confused. You have to charge it up. You can be interrupted during that. And on top of that, you have to stay stationary for Snipe’s channel.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Snipe on the other hand (if it existed) you hit the guy ? great you just took off a big chunk of his health, you missed the guy? oh well let me use my other tools.

“Oh well let me use my other tools?.” How is this an advantage of Snipe? If theoretically, Snipe did replace Rapid Fire, you’ll still have the same other 4 skills. You miss Snipe = same tools you have available to you as if someone dodges Rapid Shot.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Ursan.7846:

NaturalPortman.9562:

I would love to have a “finisher” type move on longbow, or even more CC. Rapid fire feels so clunky and the damage is horrible as a dodge roll basically negates all of the damage it does.

Eh? And a “finisher” time move won’t have its damage negated by a dodge?

Liking a Kill-shot-esque skill is one thing, but liking it over Rapid Fire because “you can dodge it” seems silly.

Something that’s hits once and does all of it’s damage is more likely to hit than a 5 second channel skill that already does garbage damage as it is.

Rapid fire = oh he dodged, time for me to wait until the rest of the 3 seconds are done so I can do a whole 2k damage with it !!!!!!!

It depends on the situation. Are you in a 1v1? Or are you just sniping someone who’s completely unaware.

Both situations happen in sPvP and in WvW. Snipe is obviously more useful than rapid fire in one situation, but rapid fire is more useful than snipe in the other situation. So it seems somewhat silly to me personally to use it as evidence that one skill is superior to the other.

NaturalPortman.9562:

I would love to have a “finisher” type move on longbow, or even more CC. Rapid fire feels so clunky and the damage is horrible as a dodge roll basically negates all of the damage it does.

Eh? And a “finisher” time move won’t have its damage negated by a dodge?

Liking a Kill-shot-esque skill is one thing, but liking it over Rapid Fire because “you can dodge it” seems silly.

Risingashes.8694:

The problem isn’t related to whether an item will get sold or not, it’s the time it will take to get sold.

The only purpose of 1c undercutters is to get their item sold quicker, the amount of time between when the under item sells and when the original item sells is liquidity taken from the original seller.

Normally undercutters have to pay something (less profit) to get this advantage. It’s what we call competition.

As the system currently stands the undercutter can gain an advantage without spending anything remotely noticeable (1c).

That’s the issue.

No, you completely miss the point. If an item was truly desirable, it will sell, undercutting or no undercutting by 1c.

Look at precursor/lodestone prices. Their sell orders going up very steadily. That lodestone you listed, and that lodestone someone else posted for 1c less, are all being sold almost simultaneously, and even higher sell orders are being listed afterwards.

You severely underestimate the size of the GW2 economy. There are many, many buyers out there and items are constantly being sold/bought. If someone undercuts you for 1c, depending on the value of that item, the “advantage” that person gains of selling it faster is so miniscule that it doesn’t matter.

Just look at gw2spidey, and its charts for sell/buy orders. Most goods fluctuate on an hourly basis. If undercutting was such a problem, you’d see sell values flat, or constantly decreasing. And that will be because that good just don’t have have that “value” in the buyer’s eye, and thus nothing is being sold at that price.

1c undercutting is not a problem. Undercutting in general is not a problem. Will people who list items at 1c less sell things faster? Sure, but the advantage people will get is so miniscule, because the item you listed for 1c more will sell immediately after. This “issue” you speak is so insignificant, it’s a non-issue.

There is already. It’s not too widespread, but it’s there. For example, the Guardian skill “Save Yourself” has a 6s duration in PvP but 10s duration in PvE.

Thoughts and Disclaimers

1. First off, this is looking purely at the stats the traits add. Obviously there’s many, many more parameters that go into the decision of choosing to trait yourself. Are you a trap ranger, do you like opening strike (mmmeh), are you a spirit ranger (hahaha), etc. etc…

2. Anyways, from the numbers, it seems that the trait is absolutely not worth at all for that 20 point investment, unless you’re already investing in Nature Magic. Again, I have to repeat: in a vacuum, this trait seems nice, but if you’re looking to trait to increase GS damage, look to trait up the Marksmanship/Skirmisher trees first.

3. I feel like this is part of a bigger problem with Ranger trait design. It does not feel cohesive, with traits for condition damage (trap builds, bleed on crit, etc…) not being in the condition damage tree, and damage trait for GS being useless if you want to go a Nature Magic-less GS dps build. There’s just no synergy. I guess the devs have noted the problem, and we can only hope some kind of overhaul is coming.

4. One interesting thing to note, once you go beyond a certain point in power, adding more Precision/Crit Damage becomes more efficient than adding more power in terms of raw damage. For example, if you had full Zerkers gear, traiting into the Skirmisher’s tree will increase damage more than traiting into the Markmanship tree (again, ignoring the traits themselves.) Which makes sense.

Previous Research

Warrior Rifle vs Ranger Shortbow DPS tests
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Shortbow-vs-Warrior-Rifle-DPS-tests/first
Longbow vs Shortbow DPS calculations
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Shortbow-vs-Longbow-Damage-Calculations/first
Ranger Melee Weapon DPS tests
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Melee-Weapon-DPS-Tests/first

Hello folks,

I’m so glad that there’s so much GS discussion going on. It’s such a useful weapon, I’m happy that it’s getting a ton of love recently.

So of course in my infinite curiosity, I wanted to look at GS traits. Specifically, Nature Magic IX, “Two-Hand Mastery,” which increases GS damage by 5%.

Taken in vacuum, it’s a pretty nifty trait for any GS user. But in context, it’s not as useful for players trying to maximize GS damage, because it is a 20 point investment into the Nature Magic line, which adds no offensive stats and traits aside from Two-Hand Mastery (and the Vit -> Power trait, but that’s pretty minor so I’ma skip it.)

So we introduce the concept of opportunity cost. Putting 20 points into Nature Magic means 20 points less put into trees with offensive stats like Marksmanship and Skirmishing. Hence I did some quick calculations comparing what your damage looks like with 20 points in Marksmanship (200 power) vs 20 points in Skirmishing (200 precision, 20% crit dmg) vs 20 points in Nature Magic (5% dmg).

But Ursan, you’re silly, why can’t you just get them all?

A legit question. You can easily get 30/20/0/20/0 or 20/30/0/20/0 to basically max out the damage you can do with a GS. But from my experience, most people who use GS slot in 20 into Wilderness Survival for the 20% cd reduction trait (which, IMO, is far more useful than 5% more dmg). And many other players use GS in conjunction with a 30 point Beastmastery build. These calculations are mainly for people who have limited amount of trait points to spend, and want to decide how to maximize GS damage.

Also, on top of that, forgetting the traits for a moment, I wanted to see just how stats in general (power/precision/crit dmg) affect damage in different situations (you have high/low base power, high/low base precision, etc…)

Methodology

So I just assumed a base damage of 100. The actual number isn’t very important, since we’ll just be looking at how each trait combo modifies this number.

I then put in values for 6 different equipment sets: no equip, full Berserkers, Rampagers, Valkyrie, Carrion, and Rabid. I took the stats given by the equipment, and added on top of that the stats provided by the traits. Then did calculations to see how the damage was modified.

Results
None:
Marksman: 124
Skirmisher: 109
Nature: 107

Berserkers:
Marksman: 341
Skirmisher: 353
Nature: 324

Rampagers:
Marksman: 249
Skirmisher: 251
Nature: 232

Valkyrie:
Marksman: 243
Skirmisher: 251
Nature: 231

Carrion:
Marksman: 202
Skirmisher: 193
Nature: 189

Rabid:
Marksman: 144
Skirmisher: 132
Nature: 124

Electro.4173:

Arrys.7145:

posion chance on basic attack.

Spiders don’t get poison chance on their basic. Devourers do. Spiders can still poison via their poison volley or (for certain ones) F2 ability though.

Devourers poison on their basic? Holy kitten, did not know that. Must test…

Rising Dusk.2408:

Griffons can, however, jump!

And the Toy Soldier/Princess/Ventari/Golem can’t?