Guild Wars 2

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

• For those afraid of drastic differences between the game types – we’re not doing this. We’re mostly just splitting #’s (damage, healing, recharge, durations, etc.). Our old philosophy holds – once you learn a class in one area of the game, that knowledge should transfer to other areas of the game.

Pretty hard to argue with that.

Keep up the good work. Any ETA on that FAQ on leaderboards and Matchmaking?

Just to iterate, I have no problem getting crushed by 5 out of the top 12 players in the game on NA currently. It was a done deal and didn’t bother me. My issue is that the matchmaking put my and 4 complete randoms who are outside the top 1000 against that team.

Give the matchmaking more time to find appropriate matches and tighten the variables so these games don’t happen.

As Folly said, its impossible to measure anyone by thier performance in a match on a leaderboard. Rankings has to come from win/loss with a rating system, anything else is too inaccurate.

Wait? Win/loss isn’t a good way to rate players?

What pray tell is a good way to have rankings on a leaderboard? How may points u get in a match?

Win/loss based on an Elo or Glicko system is the only way IMO.

Tyler, can you work more on releasing sPvP specif patch notes earlier than patch day? At least the. We have something to rage in the forums about

Keep in mind it’s only the games since the 26th march that have an effect on your win/loss. And only the games since MMR came out late February affect rating and so ranking, not the total over all.

I just won another 4/5 games and still can’t see myself. No idea anymore. I’ll just keep playing I spose. There’s peeps with 20 games played and 50% win ratio ahead of me some how.

I had in the top 25, he played one game and won and dropped out of the top 100.

Go figure.

Guardian downs you before you can get a skill off? What spec is that?

Thieves maybe with burst, everyone else uses condi damage lately.

uberkingkong.8041:

don’t worry, playing gasmask wont hurt your rating, it will only make it a lot better if you win.

Thats kind of beside the point. Its not a population issue cause there is lots of people queing atm. The matchmaking needs to take a few mins longer and have stricter algorithms to prevent these kind of games from happening.

Not having a whinge, but Arena-Net, you need to make your matchmaking a tad stricter.

I joined up with 2 randoms, who aren’t in the top 1000 like myself and we que’d into Gasmask, Follidus, Steb, Enemy and Supcutie.

There isn’t a single way, on this earth, that we are even in the same league. Credit to those guys, they were nice about it and we all had a laugh and I feel better for playing the game out and I thought I acquitted myself well and actually learnt something. But in all reality, it was a walkover for them and its games like that shouldn’t even happen.

Tighten the algorithms A-Net, they are way too loose.

Jon,
Your game balance is already top notch. Keep tweaking and balancing with a scalpel and not a sledgehammer.

As much as I like dueling, it simply wouldn’t work. Bunker v bunker would go forever and burst v burst would be done in an opener.

3v3 deathmatch however, that’s a different story. Being able to run a burst, bunker and hybrid support dps would make for great matches.

Edit: you would need to register as a team though and have a team rating and personal rating, very similar if not exactly the same as WoWs arena system but without “battlegroups”.

Balance is fine for this MMO in this stage of its life. There is nothing at all that’s game breaking or even remotely so.

Colin, is there any chance there is a blog post coming out explaining the matchmaking algorithms used (Glicko 2 I assume) and also whether your happy with the way your matchmaking is working? You insinuated that it would attempt to pit team v team and solo v solo in a dev post previously, is this currently happening consistently or is the algorithm still a bio loose due to population issues?

While we are at it, could you please explain the pros and cons to a hidden MMR? For the life of me I can’t think of a pro for it and only cons which is the opposite of visible MMR systems like other competitive games.

The leaderboards seem slightly unstable and as some who isn’t on it, bet seemingly I have a better win/loss then alot of people who are on it, I’m unsure on how to actually get into the top 1000. I win 70% or so of the time, regardless of opponents and knew I wouldnt be in top 100, but not even top 1000?

A blog post to educate the sPvP population a d stop the uninformed speculation would be a great step.

Thanks.

I think they need to revisit thier algorithms and make the. Stricter. They initially said that the system will try and match solo v solo and team v team inherently, but that’s not happening at all.

Anyway, on topic. I like ur suggestions but class might be a hard one. Some players multiclass naturally to fill different roles and change often.

I’m pretty sure someone has rocks in thier head if they think the system should stay as is with premades and solo players in the same leaderboards. They shouldn’t even be in the same que let alone ranking system. I expect it will change eventually but arena net are working as best they can ATM with limited resources. Not that it’s an excuse, it simply is what it is. The alternative is to not play or get into a team. I like to have aargh friends list for this very reason.

I’m always up for a game as long as you are normal and not a complete drop kick. Feel free to add me, but I insist on VoIP of some program or another, I just hate typing.

I don’t see how bunker stat scaling has anything to do with it, that’s a pretty long bow to draw anyday of the week.

The alt F4 trick tho…… I’m skeptical it works but if it does, expect ban hammers if its recorded somehow.

Semi broke. Leaderboards are better then no leaderboards. Give the. More time to stabilize and expand and they should look healthier. The mix of solo and team is an issue though IMO and needs to be split.

Mrbig.8019:

maybe you should read more carefully. 2 patches ago they resetted win/loss and their ratio, but they kept ratings from march till now.

A guy with 12 wins simply has not played much from last 2 patches but played a lot from march till now, and had a high ranking to begin with.

OMG stop the hate, those leaderboards are a very good start, the only flaw is the inabiity to see your rating and not having a solo/premade rating split.

The end.

/closethread.

Pretty much this. Split them between team and solo and add the MMR value to the web page and to display at the end of a game instead of the rank value.

He used to play warrior.

So awesome Fel. Made me chuckle.

Vain & Zoose would be good.

Also Neglekt for warrior stuff and maybe Khalifa for Necro.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Valkyriez.6578:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Valkyriez.6578:

Admittedly, people tell me it’s a Terrible spec at “high levels” but as a phantasm Mesmer I use null field and arcane thievery to smash Ele and also get rid of conditions.

And they’re right.

Haha, you stalker you

As I said before, they may be right. It works for me and I keep winning. I can drop conditions, which shatter mesmers can’t. I can rip boons effectively, have the cc I need and damage output that I’m happy with. With the power/precision/vitality ammy and zerker jewel I like my stat distribution and my phantasm a bit hard and I can maintain long range with ledge and height advantage. Sometimes I take portal, other times I won’t bother and I even like to use Moa over the other elites for a guaranteed kill when I roam.

It works for me and until it doesn’t, I’ll continue to tear up tPvP with it. After all, all I do is solo que and don’t rely on a team or the synergy that comes with it.

If you solo Q that’s fine, due to no real communication. But you need at least one stunbreaker to not drop instantly to thieves you unaware of.
Forum stalking: Mission completed!

I run decoy mostly but trying to really get a handle on good use of Blink. It’s harder then it looks but I figure consistent practice will yield good results. Additionally, being phantasm spec I usually have at least 1 illusion up and can F4 to negate a stun in dire situations.

It’s not bang up optimal, but its working so far. So much so that I’ve shelved my guardians and warrior a bit lately.

I’m torn on my weapon selection though. I may need a change to mix it up a bit.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Valkyriez.6578:

Admittedly, people tell me it’s a Terrible spec at “high levels” but as a phantasm Mesmer I use null field and arcane thievery to smash Ele and also get rid of conditions.

And they’re right.

Haha, you stalker you

As I said before, they may be right. It works for me and I keep winning. I can drop conditions, which shatter mesmers can’t. I can rip boons effectively, have the cc I need and damage output that I’m happy with. With the power/precision/vitality ammy and zerker jewel I like my stat distribution and my phantasm a bit hard and I can maintain long range with ledge and height advantage. Sometimes I take portal, other times I won’t bother and I even like to use Moa over the other elites for a guaranteed kill when I roam.

It works for me and until it doesn’t, I’ll continue to tear up tPvP with it. After all, all I do is solo que and don’t rely on a team or the synergy that comes with it.

Admittedly, people tell me it’s a Terrible spec at “high levels” but as a phantasm Mesmer I use null field and arcane thievery to smash Ele and also get rid of conditions.

Looking forward to watching this actually. I enjoyed the vids with Khalifa and 5 Guage.

Jonathon Sharp has said that the MMR used in sPvP is the Glicko 2 rating system. I agree that a blog post needs to be done to explain how it works, but there ya go.

I doubt you will find an official statement. JSharp mentioned it when he was in game in the Mists. There was a posts about it here but would have disappeared under the QQ ages ago.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Valkyriez.6578:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Have you realized that we play for over 5 months the same meta? d/d thief, shout-guard, cantrip-ele, nade-engi, shatter-mes, bm-ranger /trap-ranger (wow there are 2 viable builds!!!) sometimes I see a dps-guard. And that’s it.
Surely it’s not priority one on the list, but it’s a big issue that this game gets boring and predictable.

It’s the same meta because of the sheep mentality of the community.

Me personally Ive been playing phantasm Mesmer, greatsword dps guardian and axe/mace warrior and enjoying it immensely and that’s in tournaments, not hot join. You choose to play those specs, as good as they are because the rest of the community tells you to and that its the only one that’s viable.

Play the weapons you like the play style of. I prefer control to outright damage and I get that more in my weapon and trait selection. I don’t lose too many games where I think being a different spec would have changed the outcome much.

Actually I prefer to win. Against competitive teams you won’t stand a chance with these “builds”. Ergo: you’re forced to play with these pigeon holded builds.

I also prefer to win and solo que tournaments all the time when I play. Admittedly, I run into teams sometimes but that’s a by product of a bad system more often then not.

When we lose those matches, it’s a teamwork and communication issue 99% of the time, not a build issue. Teams beat solo quers because they can coordinate better.

In a team v team environment I can maybe see what you are saying, but I believe that the meta can be broken by players themselves already. Shout guardian? Bring a necro. Little counters like that can turn games. DD Ele? Arcane thievery and Null Field will destroy an Ele that’s getting focussed fired. Sure, that means the Mes can’t run mirror images anymore, and pick between decoy and blink, but it is a choice based system based on trade offs.

Just because the majority either don’t or won’t change to at least attempt to counter do e of the current meta doesn’t mean it can’t be done. It’s a community issue, not arena nets.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Have you realized that we play for over 5 months the same meta? d/d thief, shout-guard, cantrip-ele, nade-engi, shatter-mes, bm-ranger /trap-ranger (wow there are 2 viable builds!!!) sometimes I see a dps-guard. And that’s it.
Surely it’s not priority one on the list, but it’s a big issue that this game gets boring and predictable.

It’s the same meta because of the sheep mentality of the community.

Me personally Ive been playing phantasm Mesmer, greatsword dps guardian and axe/mace warrior and enjoying it immensely and that’s in tournaments, not hot join. You choose to play those specs, as good as they are because the rest of the community tells you to and that its the only one that’s viable.

Play the weapons you like the play style of. I prefer control to outright damage and I get that more in my weapon and trait selection. I don’t lose too many games where I think being a different spec would have changed the outcome much.

Perceived balance issues won’t really be the death toll for PvP IMO. I am in support of lacalized balancing, if it happens but as it stands, I think arena net is doing a bang up job so far on getting it relatively right albeit with some minor hurdles.

The community is much more harmful in balancing arguments than any of arena nets changes could possibly be. What’s imbalanced for one, is always “fine, L2P” for others, who’s opinion is right? Top, middle or low skill players? Who has right of way in balance discussions? What if top players disagree? It’s never easy and alot if it is always self serving to a degree.

I’m personally happy with how it is at the moment all though minor tweaks and bug fixes are welcome. I’ve played a few classes and varying builds on them and have my own opinions, but overall I think the “lack of build variety in tPvP” is a community generated myth. Maybe in the top 1% of skill level it comes down to class and within that class builds, but for the rest of us 99% the build variety is there, it’s just the sheep mentality stopping any progression in the average meta.

Anyway, I still believe 90% of dev effort needs to be focussed into features and infrastructure for competitive play and growth of the game from the ground up. The other 10% can be a balance focus cause realistically that’s all it should take.

Retaliation and confusion are simply bad mechanics full stop that bad players use as a crutch. It shouldn’t exist in sPvP at all IMO. Passive damage with no downside at all.

Tbh, it’s a bit of a storm in a teacup scenario. The balance in this game is more than fine and actually quite commendable.

Lack of features and infrastructure has been its undoing since day one, not balance.

Shattercat? Is this a WvW build of Mesmer or ranger?

You can sell the dyes or to make a better profit, buy and sell the Tier 6 crafting materials.

I like most of it, but disagree with the rank 30 requirement for tournaments. Rank 10, 20 at best maybe but not rank 30.

Anet has made some questionable decisions with this game, but lack of gear grind isn’t one of them. More incentives are needed, but progression should be on a ladder, not stat inflation or power creep.

Once leader boards go visible it might be different. Quitting, leaving or afking will drop your ranking if its done right. Some people won’t care either way, but most will.

Was just an observation. I dodge key abilities bad my death cap reflects that but 14k bleed damage and 11k burn is hard to avoid. It just seems to be the norm now is all, I don’t care either way tbh.

It’s easy wins for teams ATM. When I que as a group of 5, we never hit other teams and just roll pugs all day long (most have “Dungeon Master” titles on lol).

When I que solo tho…… I hit teams all day long. If I had a steady team, I would be farming that ranking all day long as well. Bit silly not to turn the 3 round tourneys into team que 1 round tourneys and make the other solo que only but dems da breaks.

Class differences aside, even running condi clears on a hybrid dps guardian the top 2 of 9/10 death recaps is always bleeds, burns and even sometimes poison.

I don’t have any fixes for it tho. Maybe the meta will change itself over time again.

zone.1073:

Valkyriez.6578:

How is 1 extra second to channel a skill every minute destroying a class completely?

^And this sums up the majority of the balance team at ArenaNet:

Ignorance.

I bet that is exactly what the ArenaNet devs ask themselves. They’re scratching their heads wondering what’s wrong. “Why is the PvP community bleeding out? Why has the competitive scene atrophied and died off?” Gee I wonder. Maybe your team needs to be more educated about PvP mechanics and have a better approach at handling PvP balance.

Highly doubt balance has anything to do with it.

Lack of infrastructure would be the determining factor IMO.

Very constructive community.

zone.1073:

I wish ArenaNet reworked their classes the way League of Legends does it, like how they completely remade Karma recently. Totally transformed her abilities, looks, playstyle, and balance all in one clean, neat package.

http://youtu.be/lWIj3IRz8DI

Instead, ArenaNet drags slowly through balance. They make awful decisions and then slowly fix them back up, with the ultimate goal in the future to achieve really good balance…some day.

Jonathan Sharp says over and over again, “We don’t want to do whack-a-mole balance.” But we already know what they’re about to do. They’ve completely torn the Warrior class apart. And right now, they are going to work on fixing them back up, three months from now. How is this not the very definition of whack-a-mole balance.

How is 1 extra second to channel a skill every minute destroying a class completely?

Ostricheggs.3742:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ostricheggs.3742:

it killed rangers. There is no point to bring a ranger to a team anymore. On demand haste stomps and rezzes were the ONLY thing worth their lack of DPS, hurt even further because you can’t quickness stack bleeds anymore. Other classes can 1v1, other classes have more survivabiltiy, other classes have more utility, other classes have more roam speed and point defense.

Dont really agree with this. Ranger is still good. Warrior and ranger aren’t comparable at all imo. Warrior is just useless. Ranger is ok

There was not a single build that did not depend on either quickening zephyr or zephyr’s speed. The entire reason why rangers came into favor in PvP is because of quickness and quickness only. Their survivability and 1v1 potential are not unique, however their on-demand access to short CD quickness WAS and fit a niche that made up for their weaknesses elsewhere. There is no reason to bring a ranger to a team now.

You have just spelled out the exact reason for their nerf to quickness all by yourself. You state that it was a necessity of every single build of warriors and rangers. In order for build variation to even possible in the future, quickness had to be reduced and hopefully they go the whole hog and remove it completely so that skills and the rest can be tuned to not be reliant on a mechanic that never should have made it out of beta.

I’m pretty sure anet are watching the meta and how things play out with the nerf and will adjust accordingly.

Quickness needs to be taken out of the game completely. You can’t balance skills around damage and effects for non haste play when here’s the chance you can get quickness and use skills at double or even 75% speed.

I dont see how this is so hard to understand for some people. If anything, attack speed of 25% increase for short durations, like 2 seconds, should be the absolute max.

In the end I don’t really care. Those that keep advocating quickness and 1 shot builds even if they are every minute or so are the ones responsible for declining population sat the lowest level. Balance is fine as it is and the one thing I’m pretty sure of, Arena Net wont go back on their change no matter how much whinging.

Yeah, I’m not a fan of passive damage. Retaliation and confusion really aren’t good in PvP IMO.

We can all see his point, but incentives by nature are needed and a good thing. New players, whether they are generally PvE only will learn. You need 3 tourney wins, so afking isn’t an option really ikittenv5 environment. Sure, it’s going to suck for a while but hey, if only 10% of those players come back next month then the sPvP population has probably doubled.

For those complaining about what to use laurels for, it ties into the complaints about not being able to earn money from sPvP. Use it to buy dyes (always a good thing) or buy mats, sell them then Convert to gems. Save those gems for custom arenas.

Winner right there. Lets not drive away players just for the sake of it and let’s be honest, sPvP needs a population boost no matter now temporary.

Lol. Rank 5 or possibly 10 at worst is more on the correct lines.

The point is to get people Into PvP, not alienate them even further. A decent tutorial, more tips at loading screens and voice overs would be better rather than a rank restriction that takes considerable time to achieve.

MMR cannot work, at all, without half a decent population to support it. Good players will rise regardless and be matched with better players, but only if there are enough people playing.

Go play WvW.

Arena net has catered to those that want open world and pvp at the same time. There’s even events out there.

Playing post patch has actually been much more enjoyable IMO. Toning down quickness was a great first step, now they can focus on other changes without hitting the law of unintended consequences.

That’s why there wasn’t much meta shift, too many changes at once would t be healthy. You balance with a scalpel, not a sledgehammer.