Guild Wars 2

Stx.4857:

Oh god, this post is so full of cliche arguments used time and time again by players in denial of the obvious.

Indeed yours is and every thread made about the “problem warrior”. All of these “nerf waerioer” , " to strwaong" threads are on this forum. It is pathetic.

You people wonder why the skill level of the game is falling faster than a rock in a well when you create threads like this.

You complain about Warrior bleeds when it is one of the 3 damaging conditions they have access too on weapons and the only one that they have major access to.

They only have burning on Longbow and Torment on sword offhand. Every other profession (minus Guardian) has multiple damaging conditions to cover their bleeds or whatever they want. You can easily cleanse the Warrior’s bleeds. You are the one at fault if you let it set. Every class has plenty of condition removal (hell most of them have Passive condition removal).

You are literally complaining about the class with the least conditions and boons.

These threads are really showing how bad the skill level has fallen since launch and I fear it will only continue the trend until the Spvp game mode is dead (which is not to far off by the numbers). It is only right I suppose with all the pros leaving and then the decent people staggering out one by one.

So continue to complain about things in this game while pushing 1 to win. Don’t worry, everyone is a winner in Guild Wars 2. Everyone is pro! E-sports all the way!

People who complain about things such as this will be this games downfall. How many different threads are there claiming that Warriors are OP?

It is a true tell-tell sign of a games fall when a class finally gets balanced into some form of mediocrity in comparison to the other profession then having the lowest common denominator decide that it is now OP.

The Warrior is fine in its current state. You just need to learn to dodge, use stun breakers and stop just auto attacking. You will not be able to auto attack a Warrior to death anymore and for that you should be grateful. It actually takes skill to beat a skillful Warrior, imagine that!

If you are going to complain about something, complain about the things that need to be changed to get the game in a position to actually be considered a PvP game.

Address your AI issues, Stealth issues, Spamming issues, Perma Vigor issues, different forms of PvP instead of all conquest,… etc, etc…

The list goes on and on, but you are stuck on something that needs no change.

A decent Mesmer will still wreck any Warrior (sadly, I haven’t seen a decent Mesmer in this game since December). Same for Ranger, Guardian and Engineer.

It is sad and pathetic to see this thread in the Spvp section and clearly shows how low the skill level has fallen in this game. I would have expected something like this in the PvE section (for example: calling hundred blades absurd… seriously?).

Zacchary.6183:

Apparently the carrot on a stick is very effective on some people.

And for those that this is not true for the stick swung hard enough will suffice ;D.

SeNoZinD.9874:

chemiclord.3978:

While cultural back pieces would be nice to see… I wonder if they are really necessary. I’m leaning towards “no.”

Its just for looks. Nothing is “necessary” in guild wars 2. Gem store skins, legendaries, none of that is necessary, but if you like the look then go for it.

Except the new ascended gear and the infusions they will soon release. Who wants to be dead weight in a party, right?

Waffler.1257:

Max damage on Ascended GS = 1155
Max damage on Exotic GS = 1100

% increase = (1155 – 1100)/1100 = 0.05 = 5%

The math is not very strong in you.

Cheery picking and minimal base arguments to get your point across will fool no one.

It is true that the weapon damage from Exotic to Ascended on all weapons have been increased by a base 5%. If you include the stats (most important ones include: Power, Precision and Critical Damage) the damage will be a lot higher in most situations.

If you follow the thread that I wrote and was locked you will see the proof for a Backstab build Thief. Please note, this is not even the maximum you could achieve. You could easily change the runes to have a even greater effect.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Exotic-Vs-Currently-Available-Ascended/first

The damage difference will vary from class to class, but you can say ultimately the base change is 5% on weapons alone with a overall damage difference in the range of 8-14% on critical hits depending on your build.

selan.8354:

erm it is pvp. player vs player. yes in spvp u have less people and different builds, butonly because u think that wvw players are bad pvpers doesent mean its not pvp.and btw u will meet epic players with lots of skill there too not just mindless zerglings.

Since 3 day head start I have come across 2 people with a decent amount of skill in WvW. The rest have been in a zerg. Granted, I can’t say there are many decent Spvpers left either. Most of the great players already jumped ship with the horrible Spvp rewards, modes, and balance.

Again, WvW is 90% hit this door/wall, roll another smaller zerg, place a couple of siege here before the bigger zerg hits you, run away.

Tpvp (actual pvp) is more organized team synergy and thinking. Meshing together to keep others off point and stopping decaps. There is 10000 more times team organization in Tpvp than in WvW.

No, a failmander yelling in chat “Zerg here!!!!” is not team synergy. 50 people pushing skill 1 repeatedly because of lag is not team synergy. Sorry.

Durzlla.6295:

If you are not running through trying to skip anything there is absolutely no scenario you’ll get swarmed by more than 5 mobs, let alone kittening 15!! The only time you’ll get swarmed by 5 is if you get unlucky with a patrol anyway.

Try to do a Siege Commander Offshoot solo. Then come back and tell me you only agro 5.

Acandis.3250:

This man… I remember the days when it actually took skill to maximize the time you kept a target immobilized. It’s like the made it reeetard proof to land and now everyone gets punished.

Well, when a over whelming 90% of your pvp base left is this….. you are going to have to dumb down the mechanics!

Zanryu.3417:

I’m unsure what commanders have to do with anything, however I have to assume that’s a reference to my Commander status in the screenshot. I don’t tag up during PvP and the tag wasn’t up in that match, whenever you log out with your tag up it glitches sometimes and will display the buff even though you aren’t actually commanding.

It was nothing against you personally, but it just “grinds my gears” when I see commanders. Because honestly, the vast majority of them actually think they are better players than the other people in the game (or at least the vast majority I have talked to seem to think that way). When in 70% of all cases where I see them fight… it is not pretty. The only thing the commander tag means to me is a fail party.

I had hoped that Anet would do something similar to RF online where a Commander actually means something but they made it a bought privilege instead of skill. It is a mockery to what a commander is and what they do.

Again, it is not against you more so Anet and how they designed commanders and all “failmanders” out there.

As to the topic, there are a bunch of really bad Warriors, a handful of decent, and almost no great ones left. There are almost no great players left of any class. The pro gamers abandoned this game long ago (3 months after launch).

People be angry!!!! Because their perma vigor classes are now next to useless in the face of competent players. GG.

Shame you can’t block, dodge, stealth or go invulnerable to stop the immobilization….

A lot of you people equate difficulty with massive amounts of mobs. Having 15 mobs swamp a player is not difficult nor fun/challenging in anyway. It is lazy design.

Nothing in this game is truly “difficult content” it is all Zerg Content.

Not going to lie. I can’t stand when “commanders” go into Spvp thinking they are hot “s***” and that they own the place. In my opinion that is just as bad as the people who flop professions because it is the perceived op class of the month. Those were usually the first people I killed in Spvp when I played.

To the actual topic…

There will always be bad eggs when you have a profession that is popular. Warrior is/was the most popular class in this game since launch if the surveys I read were true.

As to why I still stalk the forums if I don’t’ play….

I am waiting to see how long it takes Anet to kill the game.

WvW isn’t even PvP and I don’t understand how you people can actually think it is…. You are hitting doors or walls over 90% of the time. It is a giant mob attacking a keep while another giant mob tries to keep the keep. It is a joke.

It doesn’t take much skill to roll a group of 20 when you have 50+.

eisberg.2379:

You are assuming a critical hit on every hit, which doesn’t happen. Take into consideration all the hits the player will do, and it will be closer to 5% overall more damage then it would be 10% overall more damage.

I am assuming a single instance of one attack (as stated if you read). You injected what you want to believe into the situation. I merely proved that in that situation a Thief with ascended gear could easily gain 10.3% higher damage than one in Exotics.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

First off your calculation completely ignores crit chance, so it is quite flawed. See the post above your for the correct calculation of zerker gear differences. It is closer to 17% as I couldn’t find any errors in the above posters post.

And you are absolutely wrong. Either you can’t multiple or choose to ignore the numbers. Trying to play on a law of average with critical chance is little more than guessing (statistics) and doesn’t prove anything. You can plug and chug with saying every other hit is a critical due to the 50% chance to critically hit, but you are guessing point blank.

Looking at a single instance of a critical hit then at a normal hit will give you more information than what you are trying to argue. Also, the 10.3% damage increase from what I was stating is in reference to a very specific build/gear set up and is not intended to be taken for all classes with any type of gear. The damage and build I use are laid out plan as day so people would not assume I am talking about x when in reality it only holds for y.

Are there builds out there that can extrapolate the difference more? Yes.
Are there builds out there that deal a minor difference in damage? Slightly.

You would need to argue the difference and of what slightly means. In general though, every build will increase by at least 5% in direct damage whether you want it or not. So saying you gain nothing from ascended weapons as a condition user in general is wrong.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I agree with you that weapon damage increases 5% which increases direct damage, which when combined with power gains, precision gains, and crit damage gains makes it even higher.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the OP, or the numbers I have come up with. Great so my direct damage increases 10%+ (looks like ~17% for full zerker as the previous post seems to be correct in the calculation) except that direct damage only makes up ~1% of my overall dps. So no matter how much you increase my direct damage it isn’t going to change the final answer.

For condition users, switching from full exotic to full ascended is only a 5.2% increase. You can copy and paste your post about 100% crit chance changes in zerker builds all you want, but it really has very little bearing on anything to do with condition damage dps.

Either you didn’t read what I wrote or chose to ignore it. I said condition builds won’t gain very much of anything form Ascended. In the grand state of the game at the moment you are only gaining a partly 96 extra condition damage if you have all major condition damage ascended gear, which is roughly equal to around 5 extra bleed damage a tick. That as a percentage is roughly 5.3%.

The point being however, it is a very minimal change. I don’t’ think anyone on these forum would argue that 5 extra points of damage a second is very “Game Changing”.

Also, the build I posted is far from a 100% critical chance build (which can not happen in this game as critical chance is hard capped below 100%).

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The biggest problem I see here (in PvE) is that zerkers are gaining a 17% increase in damage while condition users are only gaining 5%, with other mixes of gear gaining somewhere between those numbers.

They are gaining maybe 10% or slightly more (I wouldn’t go anywhere above 15%) on top of what they can how now, if they meet ideal situations. On most attacks the damage difference will only hover around 6~7% (normal attacks) while critical hits can hover between 10~15%. Only on the extreme outlaying cases that I may not be aware of can a 17% damage increase happen. As in, so particular it might happen a couple times in a dungeon run.

Trying to argue that the damage increase in a single instance is how it will be for a entire set of skills is faulty. I looked at a general build that some Thieves play and will use with the ascended gear because a lot of WvWers hate Thieves and their mechanics. Rightly so I might add. I looked at a single skill in a single instance to gather how much it will effect that skill. The math is correct.

However you are completely overlooking the difference in how these two builds play in the game.

Direct damage does not affect a blocking, invulnerable, dodging, evading or in some cases a LoS(ing) target. While conditions will always tick unless cleansed. Some will say that is not fair, but with the amount of conditions most classes have in this game massive condition clearing is not a problem. The last thing this game needs is a huge bump to conditions when they are already ruining the games PvP.

I will say that Anet should overhaul how bleed stacks are handled as it is quite silly for people who don’t spec into conditions to be able to over write a person who does.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

1. the calculations are just basic arithmetic, you can check it if you like.

I have and so have many others, and you are wrong.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

2. See my above post to see how weapon damage makes minimal impact with full math shown for your convenience.

The weapon damage itself is 5% higher from Exotic to Ascended, so it is therefore a direct 5% increase to overall damage. That is anything but minimal.

No business would stand for a 5% loss in profit. Just encase you don’t’ understand the correlation of that statement to the situation at hand… no hard core pver will tolerate a 5% loss in damage. It matters.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

3. I fail to see how it “hardly matters”. If the scaling is different between builds then that is an imbalance Anet needs to be made aware of. One build shouldn’t become disproportionately stronger by getting better gear. If the damage increase isn’t shared then additional scaling should be introduced to bring them to the same level. This is a major flaw in the games design that will hopefully be fixed.

As this has been already stated, having less than a 20 condition damage gain would result in a 0 damage increase. The fact that your condition damage on any ascended weapon is barely raised by (exotic major condition is 179, ascended major is 188) 9 points, leads to the fact that condition damage almost stays the same. Even when you add in all the additions of all the currently available ascended gear (Exotic Full condition damage with condition build: 1397 without food or buffs, Ascended full condition damage with condition build: 1493 without food or buffs) is only a difference of 96 condition damage. Or… 6.87%. So bleeds with this set up hit for 112 while the ascended will hit for 117.

So yes, 5 damage per second is very minimal in comparison to 10% of 10,000.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

4. Those claims may or may not be correct. All i’ve seen are vague references and blanket statements up to this point. Nothing I have seen has even mentioned condition damage, which is why I made this thread.

I made a very detailed thread regarding the topic on the increase for direct damage and people who wished this not to be true derailed the topic and had it closed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Exotic-Vs-Currently-Available-Ascended/first

Check it if you wish.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

5. Please point out any mistakes I have made as if they are incorrect it was not on purpose and I would like to correct it as soon as possible.

Please see the previous post in conjunction with this.

eisberg.2379:

2- Weapon Damage of Ascended is 5% more than Exotic, so mathematically it would still be 5% more.

More what? I will assume damage and if it is, then in that case….

Wow just no…. If you are looking at the whole thing, as the op stated, then this is grossly false. The weapon damage is indeed 5% higher but when grouped together with stats and the current armor values for the game the damage increase is 10%.

You and the nah sayers have been proven wrong countless times. You are not fooling anyone who can do simple multiplication.

In case you don’t know the damage formula (why would you even step into this argument if you don’t…)

Damage done = (Weapon Strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Now if you look at a full exotic thief vs a full ascended thief hitting a cloth target with backstab with max weapon damage, the 2.4 coefficient, 20 might stacks you will get from signets, full bloodlust stack from sigil, with full berserker gear, and ruby orbs as upgrades on everything with the 25/30/0/0/15 build.

Exotic:
Weapon Damage: 984, Power: 3,239, Skill Coefficient: 2.4, Critical Damage: 104%

Ascended:
Weapon Damage: 1,030, Power: 3,309, Skill Coefficient: 2.4, Critical Damage: 112%

Cloth base armor: 1,836

So it follows the damage of a critical hit is:

Exotic: Critical~10,582
Ascended: Critical~11,672

You are going from Exotic to Ascended so the fraction we look at is…

11,672/10,582~=1.103 which means…… it is a 10.3% damage increase.

You have been prove wrong. As stated before, conditions are mostly linear so of course ascended will not have as much of a great affect as it will for direct damage but if you look at the increase from this direct damage plus condition damage it is quite the increase.

EDIT: To make sure you fully understand this post, this is for currently available Ascended gear versus exotic. There is no fluff guessing about what Ascended armor will be nor hyper inflated numbers with traits that deal +% damage. It would change anything if you choose to add in the +% damage traits.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So I’ve seen a lot of really bad math, outrageous claims and all sorts of speculation concerning ascended gear and how much it increases your damage. I decided enough is enough, it is time to put the rumors to rest and show the actual numbers.

The attached picture shows the calculations for FULL ascended gear. This includes 2x one handed weapons, full ascended armor, full ascended trinkets, and full infusions (13 offensive, 3 defensive). It also includes standard food buff, trait line contribution, and runes of the undead.

As you can see from the picture the % damage increase is almost precisely 5% under ideal circumstances.

It should be noted that precision and condition duration play absolutely 0 role in the final calculation because a standard necro can already cap bleeds on a target so they play no role in the damage. Toughness is included for the runes of the undead #6 bonus. Torment is placed at 3 stacks since this is the most a necro can currently apply under any circumstances.

When I get home tonight I will look up the numbers on scepter direct damage to add to the calculation, however that is very complicated and will almost certainly not have an effect on the final outcome. (it hits in the region of 100dps, so even with a 50% increase from ascended stats that would only be adding in an extra 50dps, changing the final result to 7%)

So please start spreading some truth around. At least for condition damage specs the increase is a flat 5%, not 15% or other huge numbers i’ve seen flying around.

1. You don’t show the equations on how you calculated damage, so it is very likely you are manipulating the numbers to show what you want.

2. You don’t even show weapon damage which is the biggest contributing factor to the direct damage increase.

3. You are giving out condition damage which is a linear scale for the most part and hardly matters in comparison to what Ascended does for direct damage builds.

4. The claims of currently available Ascended gear dealing 10% more direct damage (reading comprehension is hard, but this is damage not condition damage) are correct.

5. Stop trying to skew facts to cover bases.

Trollface.9186:

- Combat is kittening boring : just go full Zerk and spam dodge rolls, autoattack….
- Lack of skills: most of them are either useless or boring/uninspired , so are the traits.
- Lack of rewards.
- PvP: since GW2 is the successor of GW1 ( which probably had the best PVP ever made)I would have expected something way better than this boring conquest…. absolutely one the worst (if not the worst) PvPs I’ve seen in my entire life.
- DR
- RNG, RNG everywhere.
- Super casual.
- Ascended gear.

I’m sure I did not mention something, but that’s all for now..

It is quite sad your user name does not reflect on your statement.

Azure.8670:

You know a few Warrior facts, and other than that have NO IDEA what youre talking about. For the record, Warrior is my 3rd favorite class and I have all of them at 80.

You obviously dont play any other class. Elementalist is horrible right now. We are stuck with Arcana and Water in every build , unless we go fire staff build which means we are horrible in our other attunements and theres a 15s CD between attunements. Healing power is basically worthless for Eles now. We have no way go get away from people chasing us anymore. D/D is worthless even though I still use it on my Ele. If you use a scepter youre forced to go into air. We cant heal or res while in mist form anymore, which is HUGE. teleport doesnt break stun, which is horrible. Watch any youtube video by DaPhoenix, whene Eles were OP and we only fought people 1×3 or 1×5 to make it fair. Yea, we were OP but they nerfed EVERYTHING from that build and it leaked over into the entire class.

Thief has been nerfed in every patch. You dont know what youre talking about. Everyone cries about d/p Thieves but guess what, thats all we have. Everyone cried about S/D so much they had to nerf it. Everything Thief has gets nerfed. From damage to viability, all they have is stealth and thats apparently getting hit with the nerf bat (d/p more init) next patch. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT. If you took 20% of ALL the warriors damage away right now, it would still be better than the Ranger at everything.
BETA Ranger was a beast, and that was the last time the class was good or wanted. Whens the last time you saw a “No Warrior or kick” in a LFG. Try playing Ranger and Engi, or a Condi necro if the group is REAL elite, and youll feel like trash. People play this game to play it how they want and cant even go into dungeons sometimes because of their class, no matter how good they are. I use my Mesmer for Fractals and WVW, Warrior and Ele for dungeons, Ranger and Engi for open world events so no one can kick me, Necro for WVW but shes in hibernation, and Thief is in retirement due to the nonstop crying on the boards. Make your main a Ranger and youll be begging to be a Warrior no matter what the nerfs are.

You either don’t pvp at all… or just enjoy miss representing problems. Rangers have been the spot light in this game’s Spvp more times than any other class. With S/d—-shortbow builds, healing bunker and now the spirit ranger. Ranger has been a strong pvp class trough and trough. The only people who complain are pve people and I would wager that is more because they fail to understand the mechanics of the class more than how the class is structured. You can play the class how you want but that will not insure you will do well.

The Thief profession has received nerfs, yes, but it has not been nerfed the worst in the grand total of things. Thus, it continually gets small nerfs almost every patch (minus one that made them broken, as in stupidly strong). Thiefs in general enjoying complaining because they want to one shot people instead of having to three shot them. Not to mention they complain about survival-ability when they have the most broken defense in the game. Being completely invisible at any time they choose is broken, hands down. Thievies only care about two thing and two thing only, trolling people with one shot builds and being able to run away with little to no effort. Meanwhile, they will continue to cry about being “bad” while actually being one of the best classes for solo orientated play. I will say that they could have better team play, but team stealth is absolutely broken.

No sir, you have 0 idea about balance and classes in general or enjoy trying to troll. Warrior has been down trotted since launch and now that they are on par, not above, people cry because they have to try and adapt.

Since the good pvpers left only the bads are left, which is why no one can seem to beat the Warrior now. People are unable to think of new builds besides the ones that the actual pros made 1 year ago. Thus, when the Warrior was brought up to counter the current builds no one understands the fact that they might actually have to switch builds to beat them.

People in this game change one or two traits and believe they have made a new build that is unique to themselves when they have put 0 thought process into it. As I have stated before, the longer this games goes on the less and less innovation we see and more faceroll because that is all the people left can do.

Because they have all the other 1 million bugs on the docket to fix… best of luck.

Azure.8670:

Thats literally nothing compared to what Thief and Ele have experienced the past year. Ele went from a tank that could stack might and heal itself, with high movement and escapes, to a kill or be killed class, thats it. Ele has about…. 9-14 seconds to wipe you out or its dead. Thief has had almost every single attack and build nerfed to the ground. Pistol Whip was nerfed around 9 months ago, and it does less than an auto attack chain. I had perma stealth thieves but its the only build they have left after all the nerfs to EVERY Build. IF they reduce the damage of EVERY SINGLE WARRIOR weapon by 40% and take away healing signet, blocking with shield, Stuns with mace…. they would still out perform the Ranger on every level.

Dont worry, Warriors can still bunker just as well as a Guardian you have nothing to worry about in pvp. Your conditions are still better than a mesmers if you use perplexity runes youre just fine. Only thing, an Engi MIGHT be better at Range than a warrior, but thats up in the air ill have to crunch some numbers and do some gameplay and get back to you

The Elementalist nerf was not as big as you are making it out to be. The Grand Total of Thief nerfs don’t even amount to this nor the first huge nerf Warriors received.

If you even played at lunch then you would remember receiving a 27% damage cut not even 1 month after lunch. Not just that, our discipline line sat at 3% burst damage increase for over 9 months! But what is the real kicker for all of that? We got nothing in return for that nerf. Warrior damage was literally cut by 27% and they called it a day. No buffs to horrible traits (that are still in the game mind you) or skills.

You are just entirely clueless to what happens in the game and are basis towards this class. Warriors in their current condition are still easily killed by any competent/decent player.

Jzaku.9765:

I definitely miss when Warrior required some serious dedication to main in PvP. Also when my Hammer build was ridiculed for being the easiest nonsense to dodge ever.

It still is easy to dodge. It is just that the general skill level of the game is going down due to good players leaving.

With the general populace getting worse over time instead of better the “QQ” (as you put it) will never stop.

Scryed.9423:

let’s try to not leave out all the minor details here.

If they were looking at the minor details they wouldn’t be having a problem.

mini.6018:

Except guardian is a 24 second cd aoe stability for the group not 30 seconds and also gives retaliation.
Also if you stack 5 guardians you have 25 second perma stability on a 24 second cooldown with perma retaliation only from this utility,while if you stack 5 warriors you get 8 second stability each adn 8 second swiftness every 40 seconds.

Balance is OP

Thanks, I always forget about the Thief elite having stability.

As to the fraction math… Doesn’t matter that they have a better fraction return when you are more likely to be able to use a skill again with a shorter cool down. This is the worst game for spam I have seen in a long time so short cool down wins over a tiny bit longer duration.

RaynStargaze.6510:

400 passive healing signet only + 100 more via trait PER SECOND thats 5K! Healing per 10 seconds

Sniff, Sniff Eww… smells like someone is miss informed. Only the heal signet is every second. The “traited heal” is every 3 seconds (at least learn the flippen name of what you are talking about…)

RaynStargaze.6510:

best stuns in the game (either AoE or extremely long) on a VERY LOW CD

Sigh… the best stun in game, as you claim, is reliant on adrenaline to do anything. It takes 30 strikes to achieve max duration for these stuns. One strike is one adrenaline, so if you are getting hit 30 times in less than 8 seconds… the problem is not the other profession but you.

RaynStargaze.6510:

best condi remove in the game with the same trait that also gets another 100hp/sec healing – TRIPLE condi cleanse every 9 seconds TIMES TWO (two weapon sets)

Just sigh…. First off, the condition removal trait and the healing trait are two separate traits. Adrenaline Health is a 15 point minor trait in the Defense line while Cleansing Ire is a 20 point trait in the Defense line. Learn about what you are complaining about before you complain.

Also, to get 3 conditions removed on burst skill the Warrior would have to waste 3 levels of adrenaline (don’t let me blow your mind here I am going to pull from what I previously wrote). If you payed attention on the last line I wrote that is 30 strikes of adrenaline or 30 hits on a target. So there is no way for a Warrior to use a burst skill swap then use another fully changed Adrenaline burst skill immediately afterwards. Maybe if they are carrying the Signet of Fury, but not many will carry that with the build described above.

RaynStargaze.6510:

very good damage output especially with a 10 point trait that gives 50%???!!!! crit chance when target is stunned

You got the trait correct and how it functions, good on you. Although, I think you are missing the important part of it. The target has to be stunned to grant this extra critical chance. If a Warrior is carrying a Hammer—-Mace/Shield he has a total of 3 stuns on, respectfully, a (2 on) 8 second cool down and a 25 second cool down.

2 of these stuns are very easily kited as they have to be within 130 range and the other 300 range. If you are that close to a Warrior you should expect to take a lot of damage.

Not to mention that 2 of the stuns require Adrenaline to even use.

RaynStargaze.6510:

best base stats of all classes large vitality and toughness by default

The same lined spewed at the launch of the game to get their Discipline knocked from +30% burst damage to +3% FOR 9 MONTHS. Active survival skills trump big toughness/hp any day of the week. Base stats in this game mean very little.

If not, then why isn’t the Warrior the best bunker (even in this OP era)? Because high base stats mean very little. The Guardian can well outlast any Warrior as a bunker due to blocks, blinds and invulnerabilities.

RaynStargaze.6510:

one of the best (duration+cd) and most reliable stability utilities in the game (balanced stance)

You truly have no clue as to other classes do you?

Who cares if the Warrior can get stability every 40 seconds for 8 seconds when a Guardian can give 5 people stability every 30 seconds for 5 seconds. Most of the other classes can get stability (only Thief and Mesmer have no direct access to it). Meanwhile, Rangers can get 20 seconds of stability on elite skill use.

RaynStargaze.6510:

reliable ON COOLDOWN!!!!! aoe might stacking with longbow hammer (2 explo finishers and a fire field every 9 seconds lead to reliable 12 STACKS AOE MIGHT ON ITS OWN!)

If you are bad enough to stand in his fire field and let him stun you and stack might…. that is strictly your problem. I know of no Warrior who would willing waste Earthshaker for a might stack.

RaynStargaze.6510:

and also Berserker stance is one of the best – trololol they have 3 condi classes lets hard counter their setup – utility choices you can pick right before match

Even though Engineers have it on a trait that activities and stays active at 25% health (Automated Response). It is also, 8 seconds duration on a 60 second cool down. The way everyone here is presenting it is if the Warrior can spam this every 10 seconds for 9 seconds. If you can’t kite the Warrior for 8 seconds… again that is your problem.

If you think this is op why not complain about the Mesmers and their true invulnerable every 42 seconds for 4 seconds? They are also immune to conditions and direct damage while using that.

RaynStargaze.6510:

fix this kitten or lose players cuz op

Indeed, I agree. Ignorance is op.

Harper.4173:

It is about reflexes and moving fast – it is not something you can learn – it is something you develop through repetition and hard work.

All those poor misguided SKILLED CRAFTSMEN. They should know only reflexes matter and skill is not something learned. Pity those SKILLED ELECTRICIAN will always be called something they are not.

/sarcasm

You sir, are a “deleted so I don’t get infracted”.

Next time, please include your full list of results instead of only those that highlight your propaganda.

3 : a learned power of doing something competently : a developed aptitude or ability <language skills>

Now lets look at a different source to broaden our understanding.
Ah yes, the good old free dictionary.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/skill

skill (skl)
n.
1. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience. See Synonyms at ability.
2.
a. An art, trade, or technique, particularly one requiring use of the hands or body.
b. A developed talent or ability: writing skills.
3. Obsolete A reason; a cause.

Oh my, it seems that they update this dictionary with what forms have become obsolete how handy.

But first Another outlandish statement…..

Harper.4173:

Leading a group is not skill – it’s the ability to lead – Leadership – there’s a word for it.
Planning to have higher numbers is not skill – it is the ability to plan – planning.

Lets review our new awesome found set of definitions, something further down the line perhaps this time to, again, broaden our scope on what the entire meaning of the word skill is…

skill (skil) noun
1. cleverness at doing something, resulting either from practice or from natural ability. This job requires a lot of skill.
2. a job or activity that requires training and practice; an art or craft. the basic skills of reading and writing.?skilful adjective
having, or showing, skill. a skilful surgeon; It was very skilful of you to repair my bicycle.?skilfully adverb
?skilfulness noun
skilled adjective
(negative unskilled).
1. (of a person etc) having skill, especially skill gained by training. a skilled craftsman; She is skilled at all types of dressmaking.
2. (of a job etc) requiring skill. a skilled trade.skilful is spelt with -l- (not -ll-).

Well, I will be…. It seems skills means quite a few more things than the 2 you have listed, then continued on to degrade everyone with a skill based job. Good on you.

Leadership is a trained aspect. One both gained through learning and experience, or would you deny all of the military schools their right to skillful tactics on the battle field?

Maybe you should write West Point and inform them that they have been ill-informed all these long years since 1802?

Skill means a great deal of different things, in varying degrees and in varying ways. The English language is very hard to pin down on a single definition for a great deal of words. Below is a link that has a list of the most common words with multiple definitions. Please review this list as to not make such a fool hardy mistake as you have here.

http://www.sophia.org/tutorials/common-words-with-multiple-meanings

Syhnz.4928:

..this is actually what a warrior is like, five knuckle deep up your butt with no other way’s to the job but the dirty way.

Warriors are the colonoscopy police.

I just like the thread title.

Syndrilious.9632:

Snip (just to shorten up the thread)

I completely understand where you are coming from. I know flaming them is not the best way to go about it. My 2 infractions server as stickers of learning on the matter.

As for WvW and the difference it will make… I honestly don’t care as it will always be a number game more than a skill one. They are correct as there is no balance in that place and never will be but further propagating the problem is not going to help.

As to the other comments:

Actually, I hardly ever log on now. I have dropped from top 100 on the (Achievement) leader board to the 90th percentile or some sort. The only reason I ever played PvE was because they fail to deliver the Spvp they promised. It shatter my guild from Guild Wars 1 and all of my old friends stopped playing. We were not pros, but we were above average. I can honestly say, I hardly seen any great players before I quit in Spvp. It was a ghost land and that truly saddens me. Had my team stuck around I am almost positive we would have been a top Tpvp team.

With how many great players came from Guild Wars 1 it was very exciting in the beginning. Then they made a horrible judgement call on nerfing things not even a month into the game…… I am sure any Warrior who has stuck around since head start will know what I am talking about. How many months did the class defining trait line stay with +3% burst damage because people still didn’t understand the dodge mechanic of the game at launch?

It was because of things of that nature most of the great Spvpers left. 3 months of balancing like that is enough for any serious pvper. Thus they left.

I might log on once in a blue moon to run a dungeon or two because I do enjoy the combat system in the game but with all the left over bugs, new direction and horrible balance overall I don’t think I could bring myself to come back.

As most of my guild members have said, I will find it hard to ever buy another game released with their logo on it. This is coming from a hardcore vet of Guild Wars 1. Played from launch until Guild Wars 2 head start. If that doesn’t mean something to Anet then… I guess my opinion is pretty spot on about their new motives.

Ision.3207:

Raine, I hear you, lol. I never suggested that you begin threads like this, so I don’t know what you’re referring to as far as that goes. All I am saying is that the writing is on the wall, and it’s loud and clear. I’ll give you 2 possible scenarios, and ask yourself, which is more likely:

1. In regards to backtracking on Horizontal Progression, Anet gives a small mea culpa as you say. They assure us that Ascended is it, and all progression going forward will be Horizontal. They introduce Ascended Armor, and then move on to Horizontal progression for years to come>

2. Anet releases Ascended armor, followed by Ascended Sigils or Runes, and then followed by ascended this, and then followed by ascended that … and so on. Time passes, and another year has gone by. Vertical progression is even more accepted as normal, the demographics change even more towards traditional VP mmo players. Anet finally exhausts the “ascended” avenue of VP, and soon afterwards release an expansion with 5 new levels, a new class, and …. tada! … a new set of gear to grind.

Given what occurred last November, a mere 3 months after years of marketing Gw2 in the manner they did, my money’s on option 2 ….

And as far as Colin’s comment about horizontal skill progression goes, I believe him. I think they are going to do that slowly over time … except it won’t be “instead” of VP, but “in addition to” vertical progression.

Still and all though, as far as grindy Vertical Progression mmo’s go, Gw2 is pretty good, and I’ll take it over WoW or Lotro.

Indeed. You have summed up the thread thus far nicely. The only thing I would change is the “grindy” part. Guild Wars 2 is… sort of “grindy” but not as bad as others.

fellyn.5083:

They’ve already said they had no intention of adding new tiers after ascended. But that’s not good enough for people on this forum it seems.

Because what they say can not be taken at face value for truth. They could change their minds and never tell you until 2 days after they implement it. Then they will claim it was on the docket the entire time. It has happened before, so currently that stands on the track record more so than the abiding by what they say.

Syndrilious.9632:

So if, as some of you have indicated, the point is moot, and that there will indeed be some degree of vertical progression; why not stop talking about the vertical progression, and push them to go for more horizontal progression. They’ve admitted the roll-out of Ascended gear wasn’t the best idea, nor was it done in the best way. They have also made it abundantly clear that there will be some vertical progression even in the future, level cap increase etc. Furthermore, we know that they will not remove Ascended.

With those things in mind, instead of complaining about what they are doing, push for more HP and push for more methods to getting Ascended, hell push for a materiel reduction to get Ascended. Do anything but complain. Making worthwhile suggestions is more likely to produce a positive reaction from Arena Net,posting threads about removing the gear from WvW isn’t going to work, neither will saying its dumb etc. Even a well thought out post about the statistical differences aren’t going to work, because those differences aren’t as big as the differences from Rares to Exotics and to this day I run rare sets in WvW and have little trouble unless I am 1v1’ing someone and many other people are like this and I even think that was mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

My advice, to get them to take your posts serious, is to make suggestions that get massive community support. If an idea is good, the community will support it, rather than fracturing and arguing like there is here. The community has multiple facets, thus you see people that like VP, as well as those that want HP. Find the middle ground. Same with WvW vs PvE vs PvP, though WvW and PvE will likely never get separate traits and skill balance, those two should be separate from PvP.

As for the actual issue of Ascended gear, it’s necessary because there are players in game that like vertical progression. Since forums are rarely indicative of the game population as a whole, I would go so far as saying its likely a 20/20 percent split between HP vs VP, with an additional 60% that don’t mind one way or the other. Arena Net has a very disparate group of players, and won’t always please the whole lot of us. I DO think they should start working on more HP as soon as possible, I would like more skills and traits, and viable builds. I would also like Ascended gear to be less of a grind than it currently is; and I think that is ANet’s ultimate goal. To strike a balance between the two. Threads like this may be well intentioned, with the intent to inform the playerbase, but they also add fuel to a rather nasty fire. The forums are coming to be a place where you come to rage and attack other players, when in reality a compromise is needed to sort this issue.

So why not make this a thread about it, instead of another Ascended are ruining the game, and since I can’t have my way 100% of the time, I want them removed thread.

The information in this thread is solely for the purpose of informing the populace of the game. More so, the people who continually spread false data.

As stated in the first post, it is for those who continually attack people with negative comments that they have no data to back their 10-16% damage increase claims while they spew the “currently available ascended gear only increases damage by 5% overall”. This is proof showing them they are wrong. Yet still, some continue to say it is not true because “Math doesn’t match my experience”.

I did not create this thread to flame Anet as it has turned into. I created it for information and for peaceful discourse on Ascended gear. That invites a lot of opinions, I know, which is why the thread can spin off in many different directions.

I never asked for Ascended gear to be removed from the game, as that would not be wise at this point. The only option they have left is continue to push through with the gear. The only thing I ask of them, is to stop “backtracking” their statements and trying to hide behind cleverly posed sentences. I understand not everyone can read between the lines, but a lot of the Guild Wars 1 player base can and hence why they are angry. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that they pulled Ascended gear out of the air while they said they had planned it all along. It is insulting to your clients to pull such a move.

They are not our friends, parents, relatives or any other type of close familiarity with us. They are our service providers. We have nothing more than a business connection. We pay them to provide a service and I expect honesty, integrity and some small amount of respect from them. That is not much to ask when you are paying for a service, or in this case, already paid for it.

whyme.3281:

Can you do the math on defensive stats aswell? Maybe with leaked armor stats too.

I think we dont see an equivalent damage decrease there. Could be interesting in PvP point of view.

I would be more than happen to run the damage calculation if I had a solid source for the numbers. As of right now, I can not find a source that gives a concrete answer on the numbers.

Although I will say this, armor in this game scales no where near as good as damage. Ascended armor would only help if they increased the defense on each piece by a substantial amount.

For example:
The amount of armor needed on a full ascended berserker build in heavy armor to match that of a exotic with the same set up against a backstab Thief would be (I will be using the numbers from my first post in this thread).

Exotic: 2,127 armor Damage Done~ 3,596
Full Ascended: ? Damage Done~3,596

ASSUMING the Thief is using Ascended weapons/accessories but Exotic Armor.

3,596= [(1,030) * (3,309) * (2.4)]/ ?
? = [(1,030) * (3,309) * (2.4)]/ (3,596)
?= 2,274.71

So in order to maintain the same damage from exotic against exotic to ascended/exotic mix against ascended they would have to increase the total heavy armor by 6.9%.

On light…

Exotic: 1,836 armor Damage Done~4,166
Ascended: ? Damage Done~4,166

Calculation:
4,166 = [(1,030) * (3,309) * (2.4)] / ?
?= [(1,030) * (3,309) * (2.4)] / (4,166 )
?= 1,963.48

Which would be a 6.9% increase.

So in general, they would have to raise the armor values by 6.9% in order to match the damage increase and make Ascended vs Ascended the same as Exotic vs Exotic.

Taking a look at the increase from Rare to Exotic chest pieces:
Rare: 321
Exotic: 363

So the increase is 13.08%.

Masterwork to Rare:
Masterwork: 298
Rare: 321

So the increase is 7.7%

They have said that Rare to Exotic will be the highest jump so we can assume that the jump form Exotic to Ascended should be somewhere in the realm of 7.7% – 13.08%.

I will say, all in all, this was a useless analysis because it is only partial ascended gear.

Have a good one.

Mackdose.6504:

Henri Blanche.8276:

Ultimately most of this discussion is moot, even the OP’s otherwise worthwhile analysis. If people subjectively like having BiS equipment, and feel the effort to acquire Ascended items is an unnecessary and unwanted grind, then they will not be happy. They will feel like ArenaNet betrayed them, that most if not all of their promises and statements regarding this issue made in the past were lies. And they will feel especially violated if they played GW1 where the philosophy was very different and balanced.

Any comparison between Exotic and Ascended gear misses the point.

This guy hits the nail on the head right here.

/thread

That is not the point of the thread nor the major discussion at hand, but to answer the paragraph…

Yes they did betray the trust of their original fan base. I have given more than enough links to their interviews showing that the game was only to differ from Guild Wars 1 by the fighting mechanics, level system, the “new and improved” traits, open world instead of instances and how the story flows through the game. Not just 3-4 year old interviews either, but as recent as 1 year (aka at release).

I have more links to a variety of different interviews on the topic of Guild Wars 2 (but then again, so does google). Also, they have completely went back on what they said in most interviews.

The question you should ask yourself is why are the majority of players upset about this one thing more so than the others?

It is because there was no preface to this problem. They never came out and said something on the grounds of, "Hey guys, we are going to change our original view on “fill in the blank here” in the hopes it will make it a better game!". Instead they just slapped everyone in the face by coming out with, " We just never told you about it and it was here from the get go even though it is completely different than how we originally showed/interviewed the game".

I am sorry, but don’t try to kitten on my face and call it a Mountain Dew. The major fact stands, we paid money for what they said in the interviews and how they were advertising the game. It is dirty dealing, at best, to turn around and completely change the product no later than 3 months after the release. All the while claiming it was part of your plan.

However, this thread is to high light the major differences between Exotic gear and Ascended gear. This is to get a idea of how it will effect the players in a semi “PvP” environment.

Lastly, as to whether it is power creep or not… I personally believe this is a form of creep as they have stated they will raise the level cap at some point (which I linked a interview in a previous post). As to whether or not it turns out to be power creep will be determined because from experience you can not relay on what they say as to what will happen.

AndresR.4532:

The 5% people claimed was just comparing weapons, but if u compare all the gear, yes is 10% +/-

No, not all of them. The majority of people who claim 5% would also say that the 50 base damage added on to the weapon was non-consequential, when in fact it is the biggest contributor to the damage boost.

I made this thread in response to all the people miss quoting the damage increase in the following thread….

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Remove-Ascended-from-WvWvW/page/12#post3088102

This thread is in response to all the claims that ascended gear is not vertical progression and only increases the damage by 5%, in which case they are wrong on both accounts. I did this to shred light on a problem people loved to talk about but never backed what they said.

zeromius.1604:

Azure Prower.8701:

Melchior.2135:

There are literally dozens of bugs that I still encounter that I reported in the beta. I’m not saying your problem from three whole patches ago isn’t real, I’m saying this team isn’t very good at fixing anything. Don’t hold your breath waiting.

That seems like a cleverly disguised attack on Anet staff.

Not very well disguised. There are probably countless more bugs that have been fixed that this dude doesn’t even know were there in the first place.

The fact that the game launched with that many bugs and problems and has operated under the condition of them for over year is disgraceful.

DocHolliday.5921:

Vanthian.9267:

DocHolliday.5921:

BlueZone.4236:

Maybe my memory on GW1 is fuzzy, but I recall halfway through the story I was level 20 (max level) and immediately able to purchase a full set of the best gear from a vendor. Mind you I did a “proper” play though in that game, not rushing.
Can anyone else confirm this?

In Prophecies, you could have someone run you through Lornar’s Pass down to Droknar’s Forge for a nominal fee where you could pick up a full set of top statistical gear for the equivalent of about 5G in GW2. This would have been when you were around level 8-12.

In Nightfall, you could create a new character, take about 15-30 minutes to get to Kamadan, then pay someone an even smaller fee to take you to the small area nearby (forget what it was called) where you could buy top statistical gear for again, the equivalent of about 5G in GW2. This wold have been around level 2-3.

Consulate Dock runs…. those were the days.

Ah yes, thank you. I often kept a character at the right place in the story chain just for that run. Easy money.

I think my previous post was deleted, or at least I can’t see it….. yeah the Consulate Docks are it, but it is also a the mission that takes you to the main land.

eisberg.2379:

Vanthian.9267:

Very false. They did advertise this game as a horizontal end game. They did so for years. They discussed and commented on this while it was still in the very early alpha stages of what they called “Guild Wars: Utopia”. I waited years for this game to come out and kept up with every bit of news as I possibly could. It was advertised as a skill based game with the end game focusing on a visual grind not stat grind.

Feel free to prove this.

Early interview regarding many different things, most notable “grinding” quote.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/09/17/massivelys-interview-with-arenanet-lets-talk-guild-wars-2/

The Death of Guild Wars Utopia
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/08/the-game-archaeologist-looks-at-guild-wars-utopia/

Interview discussing Game Design and Philosophy in general. No grinding and accessible to everyone in all facets.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/3812/page/1

Quite possibly the biggest LOL moment when you read the statement about crafting and think about what they just added.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/05/28/massivelys-interview-with-the-guild-wars-2-design-team/

Another very funny interview discussing making the game and how they wanted to make it better with a irritation process, just read the first question and answer.. then head over to the ranger forum.
http://www.killtenrats.com/2011/11/29/gw2-interview-with-arenanets-eric-flannum/

Interviewing stating they didn’t want to force players into a certain aspect of the game. Shame for those WvW players who want Ascended item…
http://guildwars2hub.com/features/interviews/interview-design-philosophy-and-endgame

And the killer you were asking for, the no grinding for gear philosophy for PvP and WvW. Enjoy.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/staffblog/022012/22638_Guild-Wars-2-PvP-Why-Progression-Doesnt-Matter

Now, prove to me they stated that they had planned Ascended gear all along with a interview from at least January of 2012 or early. It might help in your search if you replace the word Ascended with Exotic, best of luck.

Edit: Oh for kicks and giggles since no one really seems to remember :
http://www.gamefront.com/guild-wars-2-level-cap-raise-confirmed-for-future/

Xae Isareth.1364:

It was never advertised as a horizontal progression game. All they said was that you dont need to grind, which is still true because as far as unaware if, apart from very high level fractals, there’s no gear-checks in game.

See the post above.

eisberg.2379:

Vanthian.9267:

This is not whining due to how to earn the gear. It is the principle of the matter. When a game is advertised as a horizontal progression game like it predecessor you don’t add a vertical jump in the game 3 months after lunch and try to claim it was on the table to begin with.

I don’t ever remember then advertising it as a Horizontal progression game with no vertical progression. In the article that another posted above from the Eurogamer, they even stated they never said there would be no vertical progression. Looks like to me people made assumptions and somehow they turned into “facts”

Very false. They did advertise this game as a horizontal end game. They did so for years. They discussed and commented on this while it was still in the very early alpha stages of what they called “Guild Wars: Utopia”. I waited years for this game to come out and kept up with every bit of news as I possibly could. It was advertised as a skill based game with the end game focusing on a visual grind not stat grind.

Then 3 months into the game (note this is the time a vast majority of the pro player base has left ~aka the old super leet Guild Wars 1 guilds~) they completely gave up with what they had touted for 2 years plus and just started doing whatever would make the most money.

Tada temporary bs living story crap. Made just to add more things to the gem store to get you to buy them. You can not even being to say that the living story updates are even remotely decent in terms of game play and lore. They are nothing more than short zerg fests from here to there. The only update that had any remotely decent things in it was the Pavilion and even then, it was horribly done.

Lets end with the biggest pile that this game has, BUGS. Bugs from the early stages of BETA that have not been fixed. I don’t know about you guys, but I would be severely embarrassed if I made a game and just left it completely in beta/alpha stage. Just to name a few that have not been fixed since the launch of the game.

-Warrior Fast Hands Bug: When dropping banners via weapon switching, your weapon swap will go on cool down without actually swapping your weapons.

-Rush: Does not track correctly. Can not hit a target that simply moves left to right.
(oh, they updated it to make it smoother? yeah didn’t fix the problem. Words are different from actions.)

-Eathshaker: Does not hit targets who are slightly higher than player character. As in 0.001 units higher on the hill.
etc..

The list goes on and on for multiple classes for multiple different things. Lets not forget that slayer potions didn’t actually work for a couple of months and instead of giving you the 10% bonus to your damage, you got a +10% bonus to taking damage, yay!

Stop trying to white knight this game. There are huge problems even if you care to realize them or not.

For all the people that claim the damage difference is only 5% and refuses to show how they come up with that number… I have made a thread just for you:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Exotic-Vs-Currently-Available-Ascended/first#post3084139

The damage difference is 10.3% which is not minimal or even close to your 5% you often spout. Go ahead and look it over. Please tell me if you see something wrong. But as of right now, the damage difference is 10.3% and the above linked thread is the evidence for it.

Now…. The targets this Thief will be attacking will be full berserker as well.
Which means they will have the base toughness for their respective armor group.

Heavy Armor: 2,127 armor
Medium Armor: 1,980 armor
Light Armor: 1,836

We will also assume none of the targets have protection.

The damage formula for this game is….
Damage done = (Weapon Strength) * Power * (skill coefficient) / (targets armor)

For the example shown here we will be using Backstab skill coefficient which is….
1.2 from the front, or 2.4 from the back. We will always assume max.

This leads us to the actual calculation of the damage on the different targets. The stats needed are Power, Weapon strength, skill coefficient and targets armor.
We will assume the Thief will use the standard setup for the attack. When approaching the target right before he steals & CnD he will pop all his signets. This will give him 20 stacks of might. That is 700 power and +15% damage from the signet. We will also assume ideal conditions for his damage traits except for trait (XI) in the Critical Strikes line. We will also assume he has charged up his bloodlust stacks from the sigil.

Exotic Stat Recap and Damage Calculations
Weapon Damage: 984, Power: 3,239, Skill Coefficient: 2.4, Critical Damage: 104%
First Target: 2,127 armor Damage Done~ 3,596 if Critical~9,134
Second Target: 1,980 armor Damage Done~3,863 if Critical~9,812
Third Target: 1,836 armor Damage Done~4,166 if Critical~10,582

Ascended Stat Recap and Damage Calculations
Weapon Damage: 1,030, Power: 3,309, Skill Coefficient: 2.4, Critical Damage: 112%
First Target: 2,127 armor Damage Done~3,846 if Critical~10,077
Second Target: 1,980 armor Damage Done~4,131 if Critical~10,823
Third Target: 1,836 armor Damage Done~4,kitten if Critical~11,672

Comparing the two critical hits together for each target:
Target 1: 10,077/9,134 ~10.3% damage difference
Target 2: 10,823/9,812 ~10.3% damage difference
Target 3: 11,672/10,582 ~10.3% damage difference

Now you can add in the +35% damage the Thief would have if you want (for example on the Ascended Third Target he would deal ~15,757) but it will not change the percentage at which Ascended increase the damage over Exotics.

So in closing, THE OVERALL DAMAGE INCREASE FROM EXOTIC TO CURRENTLY AVAILABLE ASCENDED GEAR IS ROUGHLY 10.3%.

TL:DR Damage gain is around 10.3%

This is mainly for the Exotic versus Ascended debate players who refuse to do this themselves, yet still try to claim that the difference is minimal (around 5%).

TL:DR at the bottom, all the supporting evidence is in the middle.

Some disagree with the previous analysis of the Exotic vs. Ascended so I am going to redo the analysis with a finer comb. I will not, however, add in the new bloodlust buff, as it is not constant (meaning you could be holding one orb at any given time and lose it in the middle of the fight, or gain another). I will also be ignoring all flat damage+% since all they do is scale and inflate the numbers. Since it is all multiplicative the percentage increase will remain the same.

I will be looking at extreme cases: aka lowest possible armor for each armor tier.

For ease on the eyes:
CD=Critical Damage P=Power Pre=Precision T=Toughness V=Vitality H=Healing Power Con=Condition Damage BD=Boon Duration ConD=Condition Duration AR=Agony Resist
D=Damage increase by a % CC=Critical Chance

The Thief build I will be looking at will be a D/D backstab build, 25/30/0/0/15.

I will start with listing out the base stats for the Thief (not including might/food)

Exotics:
Dagger: 921-984d 90p 64pre 5%cd sigil: Force + 5%d
Dagger: 921-984d 90p 64pre 5%cd sigil: Bloodlust 0-250p
Helm: 97 armor 45p 32pre 2%cd Rune: Ruby Orb: 20p 14pre 2%cd
Shoulders: 97 armor 34p 24pre 2%cd Rune: Ruby Orb: 20p 14pre 2%cd
Chest: 338 armor 101p 72pre 5%cd Rune: Ruby Orb: 20p 14pre 2%cd
Gloves: 157 armor 34p 24pre 2%cd Rune: Ruby Orb: 20p 14pre 2%cd
Legs: 218 armor 67p 48pre 3%cd Rune: Ruby Orb: 20p 14pre 2%cd
Feet: 157 armor 34p 24pre 2%cd Rune: Ruby Orb: 20p 14pre 2%cd
Amulet: 90p 64pre 5%cd Orb: Exquisite Ruby 25p 15pre 3%
Back: 22p 16pre 1%cd Orb: Exquisite Ruby 25p 15pre 3%
Ring 1: 67p 48pre 3%cd, Orb: Exquisite Ruby 25p 15pre 3%
Ring 2: 67p 48pre 3%cd, Orb: Exquisite Ruby 25p 15pre 3%
Trinket 1: 56p 40pre 3%cd Orb: Exquisite Ruby 25p 15pre 3%
Trinket 2: 56p 40pre 3%cd, Orb: Exquisite Ruby 25p 15pre 3%

Deadly Arts: 250p, 25% ConD
(III) Steal does damage & heals
(IX) Daggers do +5%d
Stealing applies poison
Weaken target when poisoning
+10%d if target has condition

Critical Strikes: 300pre, 30%cd
(II) 5 might on signet use
(III) +7%CC
(XI) +20% damage if target <50%
+5%cc while >90% health
critical hits have 20% chance to restore 1 initiative
+10%d when >6 initiative

Trickery: 150Con, 15% shorter steal
(IV) +5%d behind or beside target,
Stealing gives 3 initiative
increase max initiative by 3

Healing Skill:
Signet of Malice

Utility Skills:
Assassins Signet: 180p,
Active: Deal 15% more damage on next 5 attack

Signet of Agility: 180pre,
Active: Refill endurance and cure 1 condition for each nearby ally

Infiltrator’s Signet: Regen 1 Initiative every 10 seconds,
Active: Shadow step to target (stun breaker)
__________________________________________________________________
Including base values and passive signets (values in [] will not include signet passives)
Totals: P: 2,469 [2,289] {full bloodlust without signet 2,539} Pre: 2,178 [1,998]
T: 916 V: 916 CD: 104% Con: 150 ConD: 25%
CC: 76.1% [67.52] Steal Rate: -15% +Damage%: 35% [55% if target >50% health]
Armor: 1980 Health: 10,805

The only values that change when going from Exotic to Ascended are currently the weapon, amulet, back, rings, trinkets. Below are their values for the same Thief with the same exact set up except for the newly Ascended weapon and accessories.

Ascended:
Dagger: 970-1,030d 94p 67pre 5%cd sigil: Force + 5%d
Dagger: 970-1,030d 94p 67pre 5%cd sigil: Bloodlust 0-250p
Amulet: 126p 85pre 9%cd
Back: 56p 35pre 5%cd
Ring 1: 103p 68pre 8%cd
Ring 2: 103p 68pre 8%cd
Trinket 1: 91p 61pre 7%cd
Trinket 2: 91p 61pre 7%cd
__________________________________________________________________
New stats for Ascended Gear.
P: 2,539 [2,359] {full bloodlust without signet 2,609} Pre: 2,214 [2,034]
CD: 112%

logosloki.3958:

Did you miss some exotic gear for your exotic dummy? Because I get 104% crit damage not 86% crit damage.

edit: In fact you must of missed something since even without food buffs, bloodlust or might, with d/p I get 2239 base power for exotic zerk/zerk orb/ruby dummy not the 2089 you list.

Check your trinkets and rings and such for the extra jewel. The calculation I used were for the base item only.

Here is a link to a full exotic Thief with the set up I mentioned. To the right are the stats.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1g.0.8.1g.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|1g.0.1g.0.1g.0.1g.0.1g.0.1g.0|k39.u23b.0.0.k47|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e

So… either you don’t understand what I was looking at or you have on extra things I didn’t include in my list. I used full exotic berserker gear with ruby orbs with a 20/30/0/0/20 Thief build. All of which you could see if you fully read my previous post.

Edit: You also seem to have a problem with name calling. Did my math scare you into feeling the need to try putting me down to make yourself feel better?

Also, here is the link for the ascended gear stat page:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.5g.0.8.5g.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|4s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|k39.u23b.0.0.k47|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e

NevirSayDie.6235:

Knote.2904:

Who’s idea was it that a 3 condi cleanse potentially every 10 seconds on a T2 trait was a good idea? Lmao

It was suggested by a well-known forum warrior this spring. It received huge support from the forum community—after all, warriors didn’t have any traits rewarding the use of adrenaline, just traits that benefited from it being full. Both top-tier and casual players voiced their support.

Whoa whoa whoa…. lets not give him the wrong idea….. The suggestion was posed by the one and only ********** . Widely known for his horrible suggestions to the Warrior profession. I will say in his defense though, this one suggestion was exactly what the Warrior profession needed (but I must also add that it was suggested a couple times before by different people in slightly different ways).

I will also add in, the adrenaline dump on miss, block, missfire, etc has been asked for many times before Cleansing Ire was ever mentioned. The hand holding mechanics in this game is why a lot of the really good pvpers left in the first place. Such as, Thief not losing stealth on blocked, missed, missfire, etc attacks from stealth.

logosloki.3958:

@Vanthian, could you please post your build for your notes? It’s a bit hard to follow your calculations for us non-thieves if you post a build that isn’t listed in the thief sub forum. Granted it could be under a title somewhere in there but the search function for these forums are kitten.

The second sentence of the post has the build lay out. The old 20/30/0/0/20 build. However, I didn’t include the traits if that is what you are asking for in this case (well not all of them).

The traits used are (please note that some of the traits have been changed, namely Mug):
Deadly Arts: Mug (III) Dagger Training (IX)
Critical Strikes: Signets of Power (II) Side Strikes (III) Executioner (XI)
Trickery: Flanking Strikes (IV) Your Choice Here for Master Trait

Usually you would add in Bountiful Thief (VII) but you don’t’ have too. This is to remove either Protection from the target or Aegis (or any helpful boon really). Another possibility would be Thrill of the Crime (V) so you have fury and more might when doing the combo.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Considering every class except thief can apply swiftness to themselves

- on dodge roll (trait)
- when using steal (trait, can be triggered without a target, best option for JP)
- on kill (trait)
- when disabled (trait)

Or…. just stealth and move 50% faster? If you are traited that is.