Guild Wars 2

Doomdesire.9365:

Arganthium.5638:

So why don’t you duel me in-game with a thief, and then we can see how little skill they require?

I’ll also be willing to accept this challenge. Any thief vs my guardian.

Never really lost a 1v1 against one, and I 1v1 alot.

Again, you fail to realize the point of the thread. Even if we did duel, I could easily stealth away and deprive you of the kill very easily or if you are not as good as you claim I would kill you.

Jumper.9482:

Actually, there is plenty of play/counter play to entering stealth.
There is Dagger offhand (rarely used) Cloak and Dagger which is a huge tell and dodge/interruptible with a HUGE initiative cost.
There is Thief stolen ability and Hide in Shadows(heal) which both have obvious animations and easily interruptable.
There’s the D/P Black Powder Heartseeker which is again, interruptible and extremely easy to read.
And there’s the most easy of all to counter, Shadow refuge, aka. knock him out of the circle or just kill him.

The only “uncounterable” stealth a thief has is Blinding Powder, a 40sec cd utility noone uses.

There is no counter to stealth. Once they are stealth, that is it. They will only be reveled once they hit something (choose to come out) or the stealth runs out (3 seconds/4 seconds (most thievies)/ or the annoying 16 seconds). None of these things are negative and prove there is 0 skilled play that can counter someone in stealth. The best you can do is guess which way he went and swing in the air.

No Walking.6349:

So? You get the thief to leave, you get the cap. I see no problem here unless you’re a point farmer.

If you don’t see the point, then I feel sorry for you. The point is, no class should be able to permanently evade death just because they have one cheap class skill. If you have beaten a Thief to the point he is forced to run (which always happens), then he should die. You should not get a “get out of jail” free card just because you are a thief. I am fine with mobility as long as you don’t couple it with stealth.

I would also be fine with this broken stealth as long as you don’t couple it with massive mobility.

Arganthium.5638:

So why don’t you duel me in-game with a thief, and then we can see how little skill they require?

I have no need too. Stealth is cheap and I will either win easily or just be able to stealth away. Which is the point of this thread. Stealth is cheap to the point in this game that even if you lose horribly bad, you can always stealth and walk away with ease.

No Walking.6349:

TL;DR – I don’t know how to fight thieves and they always kill me. Instead of learning how to fight them I think they should be nerfed!

Nope, you are wrong. You are a common thief who only plays this class to take advantage of the stealth because you fear using skill to win instead of cheap class abilities.

I know how to fight them and I can kill them in certain situations but that doesn’t justify stealth. Stealth is a cheap non-skill ability. It takes 0 skill to play a thief and stealth around.

Because people should be forced into using a in game item just to counter a profession specific skill. Sounds like great balance instead of just getting rid of the current version of stealth.

Thief is by far the class that needs the least amount of skill to achieve any kind of decency with the profession. Being able to stealth every 4 seconds is stupid (to put it nicely). You don’t’ have to use any kind of “skilled play” to just spam stealth. All you Thiefs’ know it is true and just use it to get cheap kills.

Either 1 of 4 things need to happen.

1) Rework the trait that gives the condition removal on stealth. It is ridiculously that they can remove a condition every time they go in stealth and another one while they are in stealth for 3 seconds (which every stupid stealth in this game for them is at least 3 seconds). This makes it only possible for a Necromancer or Engineer with conditions to actually kill them with conditions. Even then they will just use their cheesy stealth to run away.

2) Increase the reveled de-buff to at least 8 to 10 seconds. Make them actually fight and think about what they are going to do instead of allowing them to just stealth backstab, teleport around while evading back into stealth just to have all of their conditions removed and fill their initiative to full. To all of you who will whine that this will ruin the class… you still have the most evades on any weapon set. You have them for a reason. You have another skills beside 2 and 1. Learn to use them.

3) Remove the unbalanced pure stealth from the game and make it a silhouette stealth. This way skilled players can actually do something about stealth; instead of letting bad players completely benefit from having a advantage the entire fight.

The fight is always in the Thiefs hands no matter who they face. They choose who they fight and don’t. No class should be able to do this with such ease as they do. No class should be able to get away when they have been beaten by a more skillful player just by using stealth. Stealth allows this class to just poke and prod the opponent with no draw backs. Since all of their skills rely on the very cheap initiative system, they rarely have to think about what to do since it will all be restored in a short order of time (much shorter than all the other classes good skills with 20+ second cooldowns).

4) If you get hit in stealth you are removed from stealth. This one is harsh but the best for the current system since you can just spam stealth anyway. You only have to be visible for 4 seconds so if someone is skilled enough to follow you and hit you, he deserves to be rewarded.

None of these suggestions would make Thief horrible and useless like all of you will claim. You fear actually having to use slight skill and thought before you engage someone. In the current situation of the game you have 0 risk involved in engaging anyone.

Edit: There is no argument against stealth being a cheap class ability. You have no defense and you know it is true. This is why the majority of the first comments are mere mocking comments more than discussion about the ability.

Assyrian.4827:

Wut.
as a Mesmer I have no aoe skill with the weapon set that I take GS/S-P and my skills only work if I target the enemy.
we only have chaos storm (aoe) on staff.

It is called sarcasm…

Arheundel.6451:

wait a second…all other professions must learn to dodge and invisible enemy..but thief players can’t learn to dodge anything for those 4s we’re allowed to hit them..sounds legit^^

But hitting a stealthed thief is so easy… just aoe them… that is all you have to do! Use all your aoes!!!

/sarcasm

Blimm.5028:

Hello fellows.

Some of you may have noticed, anyway I did, that all the viable builds in tournaments are at the same time the most simple and easy-to-play ones.
There is no skill-requireing build in the game at the moment wich can compete with the usual button masher builds following simple rotations.

Exapmples:

Mesmer -> Shatter. Noone can tell me that playing a shatter mesmer requires the faintest amount of skill. I´m playing one myself and it didnt take me 10 minutes to become efficient with it and its – without exception – the same rotation all over again. There is no other mesmer build as viable in tournament pvp.

Beastmaster Ranger Can build extremely tanky while having no impact on the pets damage. Coupled with the huge amount of cc it makes playing this build totally overpowered (my opinion here) while not relying on any kind of player skill but spamming 1 and evade skills while dodging anytime possible.

Hybrid Elementalist: Just spam all the weapon skills on cooldown and you are an addition to the team.

HGH-Grenade Engineer: Like elementalist. This build actually incourages wasting utillity skills in order do stack might. And noone can tell me that hitting with grenades is a skillshot, as stated by arenanet.

Best of luck trying to get this community forum to understand all of these “low skill, high reward” builds. I have been trying to get people to understand the cheesiness of it for a while and all they do is mock.

Some people believe it actually takes skill to hit with grenades -_-….
Better yet, some still claim that a Shatter Mesmer is hard to play….

I agree OP, things need to change to make this game better but I am doubtful at 8 months in for the change to happen.

It was a good duel with a Mesmer. The Warrior ate a full stun lock and died before the Mesmer was even using clones and actually attacking…. not a 2v1.

Not Poxheart video is a true 3v1, and a good one at that. At around 0:35 is where they actually start to attack him.

Gmtsai.6349:

http://www.twitch.tv/tarcisanastasis/c/2349316
http://www.twitch.tv/tarcisanastasis/c/2347311

looks like you guys did not understand well in PVP community, well just back to topic because I feel this sentence is interesting.

In both of those videos, a Engineer could have done it faster and more effectively without the threat of turning up dead. It is a show of good timing not of how good the Warrior class is in sPvP. As anyone in any class can vulture two low health targets. Not to mention they had already blown all of their utilities/heals in the previous fight.

The quote is nothing more than self arrogance common among Warriors who think they are hot stuff for getting some kills in Hot Joins. Much like the Thief in WvW who thinks he is awesome for doing nothing but going into stealth every 4 seconds while having 10 people chase him.

Either stop counting guesting players into a home worlds server population tally or reduce the cost for transfers. It is annoying being on a medium populated server while it is being claimed as a “Very High” population.

At prime time for my server you are lucky to catch 30+ people at Lions Arch. Extremely lucky to run into someone doing a zone in the 20-60 level range (excluding the ones right outside of Lions Arch). The biggest group in WvW for my server was maybe 100+ people, but that was literally everyone on the map minus out 3 people on trebs (that is in months of playing, normal groups range from 10-30). sPvP you are hard pressed to see 10+ in the lobby.

Does all of that sound like a “Very High” population? Would you be happy paying 1800 gems transferring into that? Short answer… No.

It is unfair to count guesting into the population tallies for a server because it turns smaller servers, like mine, into a lie for people trying to transfer.

I am not whining about being stuck on my server. In fact, I would happily transfer to another small server (I plan too because I have friends who joined another server), but I can not make sense of paying 1800 gems to transfer to a server that I know is as dead as mine but pay the highest price due to guesting counts.

Please either show the true population of the server, “Current players on with a account on the server” or reduce the price of transfers.

Maybe price them at:
To a “Very High” Server: 1200 gems
To a “High” Server: 800 gems
To a “Medium” server: 500 gems

Rok.5260:

Specifically Greatsword and Rifle Warriors? I like to have the option of melee’ing and ranging…

So ya, how are Greatsword/Rifle Warriors in 1v1 and Roaming?

You could go the epic route and run full berserker gear with ruby orbs. Then wait for unsuspecting lowbies to wonder by your tower then “Kill Shot” them from a distance for a auto down. It is always fun to auto down people; really funny doing it to that Elementalist/Guardian who thinks he/she is boss and goes b**** deep into your group.

Or… just maybe… confusion is a cheap condition that hit way to hard for such ease of access?

Sil.4560:

Oh, don’t you know? We’re supposed to rely on our sturdy body and our teammates for help with this sort of thing! HURR DURR DURR.

Despite all of that rage, you are still just a Warrior in Guild Wars 2…

Also, I can’t seem to figure out if that is directed at the OP or at the developers (or quite possibly both o.O?)

Leo G.4501:

Interesting ideas there. I’d get rid of the extra utility F4 though.

What would determine the Rush skills? Your weapon combos? If you’re suggesting, again, the ability to choose from a list of options for each, that might be very strong…too strong possibly. That’d basically amount to a 2nd set of utilities.

Which is actually exactly what the Engineers have with their tool belts.

Cygnus.6903:

Bullcrap, ….

No, it is common sense. Steal is a single skill that gives a item based on who you steal from. Some items are useful on varying degrees. The only reason why Thieves are not already in the same spot as Warrior is because they have stealth and a majority of skills that have built in evade. Don’t forget they also just majorly reduced the amount of damage “Mug” can do.

Zayle.7253:

…. just turned into people insulting each other near the end.

I believe you have described the entirety of the Guild Wars 2 forums with that statement.

The amount of whine that would come from the Thief forum is unthinkable if Warrior got 3 more class F skills to match the rest. The Thief class would be the only one without 4 F skills. Anet would be forced to give them 3 more just to quell them.

You could argue that their ability to stealth so much is a class mechanic F skill but that will not fly. You could try the same with mass mobility, but that will not go well either. You are talking about every other class in the game having 3 more unique options to deal with a situation. This is a clear advantage in terms of strategic game play.

I am not saying Thief needs 3 more F skills. I am not claiming Anet knows what balance is for this game. I am just here to give my opinion on the matter and that would be having more options available to a professions makes the profession better as a whole.

That statement is why the Warrior profession is in the state it is in. Warrior’s have the least amount of options to deal with a given situation. We have either High damage or try to control the target which will not work on Guardians/Rangers/Thieves/Mesmers/Engineers.

The other professions have multiple avenues on which to negate or break stuns, so that really only leaves Warrior with one viable option for a given situation: Damage. Even damage fails to get the job done when up against boon heavy targets. This leaves the Warrior profession in a horrible limbo where they are great against unskilled/paper targets. Meanwhile being absolutely useless against skilled/heavy defense targets.

It would be nice I agree. People have explained (and cried about) how to split the Action/Pick up/Revive key as well but Anet choose to keep it one key. I am not sure if they would be willing to split up switching weapons between two keys.

Daecollo.9578:

We could also just remove burst skills.

Eviscerate = Axe ‘4’ (give axe ‘2’ the axe 4’s animation, love it.)
Arcing Slice = Greatsword ‘4’ (Changes animation to not be stupid.)
Earthshaker = Hammer ‘4’ (No longer targetable, responds faster.)
Combustive Shot = Longbow ‘2’ (Replaces fan-o-fire.)
Skull Crack = Mace ‘2’, After the block.
Kill Shot = Rifle ‘4’ (Replaces brutal shot.)
Flurry = Sword ‘5’, After you block.

Now all ya need to do is give us decent F1-F2-F3-F4!

No….. just no. I will say that some of the skills (such as offhand Axe skill 4) needs major work to actually be useful. There would be massive problems with trying to do what you suggest. The first mainly being, would the old F1 skills still use all your adrenaline even though they are now normal weapon skills? If not, would a increase in their normal 10 second cool down be in the works?

This opens up a nightmare of problems for balancing them. Could you see having “Kill Shot” not use adrenaline and on a 10 second cool down? Hitting for in the range of (if you are glass) 8k-25k damage easy. They would be force to tone the skills down and that would destroy what use they have now.

As to adding more F skills for Warrior… I would not be opposed to this as all other classes (minus Thief) have four class skills: Guardians with virtues, Mesmers with Shatters, Engineer with Toolbelt, Elementalist with attunements, Ranger with pet commands, Necromancers with Death Shroud abilities.

In the case this does happen, then Anet would be forced to also give Thief four F skills as well. I am for it, but I am not sure what exactly the skills would be or do.

I can see the woe now if this ever happens. They already have trouble splinting up the “Action/Pick Up Item/Revive Ally” key…. Try to think about how switching through three weapons would work with the way Anet does the above.

We would be force to cycle through them in order and unable to go to the weapon we want/need when we want/need them. We would be stuck with Weapon 1→Weapon 2→Weapon 3→Weapon 1, which in my opinion would be horrible.

Daecollo.9578:

Rangers can remove 3 every 10 seconds with a trait, and then another every 10 seconds with a signet. He also has a water field healing ability that has a high uptime.

Guardians can remove 2 with signet and 1 with a minor trait, and also has several shouts which completely convert conditions into boons while absorbing conditions with one.

Thief has a trait which he can every 4 seconds go into stealth and remove 2 conditions. His healing ability also removes all damaging conditions and even more with that trait because it stealths you.

Necromancers can send 7 conditions to there minions every 10 seconds, send them at there target, consume them.

Engineers have many water fields with there new healing turret and also can convert all conditions into boons twice with an F key and utility with short cool-downs, not as good as the others but very nice.

Elementalist I won’t even say anything about. They have it all over the place.

Mesmers don’t get as many because of all the clones/phantasms. They also have Null Field, the best condition remover in the game.

Are you talking about dogged march? It only reduces them by 33%, unless your going to say “OMG FOOD/RUNES!” Which can’t work in SPVP and is probably going to get nerfed soon, Elementalists have the same trait so they can do the same. Match that with there 100s of condition removals.

Rangers. Grandmaster Trait is the only thing possible of removing three conditions. I thought you were asking not going deeply? Or have you changed your mind?

Guardian, it is one for the signet. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Resolve

Thief: False, the trait is to remove a condition every 3 seconds while in stealth. It is currently bugged in my opinion as it wipes one condition on entry and then another 3 seconds later. (Stealth can last up to 4 seconds long on any normal stealth skill excluding Shadow Refuge).

Necromancer, I already stated they can send one condition to everyone of their minions every 10 seconds. They can not have both of these at the same time mind you. The consuming and the sending conditions are utilities skills which are also their minions. So they choose either heavy passive removal or active mass removal.

Engineer actives are not good. The healing turret detonates when using the secondary skill and therefore is destroyed. It can remove the conditions once. The best they have is consume elixir. The closest thing I can think of you are talking about is Furnigate which doesn’t even effect the caster only allies: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fumigate

Elemenalist do have them everywhere yes, like I stated.

Mesmer’s Null Field is okay…there are other things that server better. A couple of AoEs inside of the null field will force you out of it and completely nullify its point.

All in all, you seem to know a little about the professions and what they have but you misrepresent it. I also never stated anything about dodged marches. I simple said that Mesmer, Thief, and Warrior have no passive condition removal like the other classes. Which is true. Mesmer, Thief, and Warrior all have active condition removal.

Daecollo.9578:

Guardian/Elementalist/Ranger/Necromancer/Engineer/Thief… Can all constantly remove conditions every 5 seconds if they spec correctly, they do not trait deeply to do this.

You are wrong claiming they can remove conditions constantly every 5 seconds. The standard in this game is 10 seconds.

Guardians can remove 2 conditions passively every 10 seconds if traited and have the correct heal.

Rangers can remove one condition every 10 seconds if they have the correct utility skill.

Necromancers can transfer a condition to a minion every 10 seconds if traited.

Elemenatlists..have multiple ways of curing conditions. Through traits, utilities, and weapon skills. They also have Signet of Water that cures a condition every 10 seconds.

Thief can only remove a condition on stealth (If traited) or when using “Shadow Return” on sword main hand.

Engineers have a 8% chance of converting incoming conditions into boons and they also become immune to conditions when they go below 25% health. They also remove a condition when consuming a elixir.

Mesmers, Warrior, and Thieves are the only three classes without passive condition removal.

Your suggestion for condition removal is… not good in my opinion and I would rather not have Warrior go down that path. If you want more condition removal then just make the minor trait into remove a condition every 10 seconds to be inline with the rest of the classes.

Edit: As to them “trating deeply” some have to, others don’t. Take Engineer for example. Their first passive condition removal (8% chance of converting a condition into a boon) is a Master Tier minor trait. As you can see it is honestly not good. The good trait for condition removal is the elixir consuming one which is Trait X for Engineers. So that is 20 Trait points for a… decent condition removal.

Dadnir.5038:

Funny story ! You’re talking about the OH sword skill 2. Which have a longer CD than HB, do, by far, less damage and grant, yes a 2s evade. By the way, on the same CD, GS warrior have whirlwind attack that grant them evade, combo finisher, movement and do damage. All classes have their strengh and their flaw. Just cope with it. There’s no point in being jealous of what other classes have and warriors don’t, because there are things that warriors have and other classes don’t. For exemple, as a Necromancer, I’d be dead jealous of warriors mobility and stun locking hability.

By the way from what i’ve seen, all class have traits that are more or less worthless But that may be good in specific builds. And well… 1 more second of endure pain may save your life in a WvW zerg

Firstly, OH means offhand in most cases… The Mesmer skill “Blurred Frenzy” is a main hand sword skill (MH). Secondly, the cool down on “Blurred Frenzy” is 10 seconds untraited and traited is 8 seconds. “Hundred Blades” (greatsword 2 for Warriors) is on a 8 second cool down without the trait and 6.4 seconds with trait.

So… the difference in cool down is not as big as you claim (in fact there is hardly any difference). Next, “Blurred Frenzy” is completely better in every way to the comparison of “Hundred Blades”.

Lets take a look at the skills: (untraited of crouse)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades

Seems to be 8 second cool down with 9 hits for a total damage of 2,030.
Now the very big draw back, it is a channeled root that lasts for 3 and 1/2 seconds.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy

Seems to be a 10 second cool down with 8 hits for a total damage of 808.
Now it is a channeled root but it only lasts for 1/2 a second, but yet you get 2 seconds of a invulnerable state for it.

That is correct good Warriors, Mesmers can stand still after casting the skill to get a extra 1 and 1/2 seconds of invulnerability. Also, if they choose to end the skill they can easily and cleanly (of course they lose the invulnerability). Warrirors can only cancel “Hundred Blades” in certain spots, also lets not forget that we are sitting ducks for 3 and 1/2 seconds. Also, since “Blurred Frenzy” is so fast you can easily get in all the hits for the full damage, whereas the Warrior would be lucky, extremely lucky, to get in more than 3-4 hits on a target in PvP without some short of hard setup.

So all in all, “Blurred Frenzy” is completely better than “Hundred Blades” could ever dream of being in sPvP or tPvP. In fact, “Blurred Frenzy” is a better defensive skill then ANY of the Warrior skills. There is no Warrior skill that can compare to the defensive of “Blurred Frenzy”. It is a spam-able invulnerable state. “Hundred Blades” is only good on stationary targets, ie: General PvE mobs.

I suggest you play a Mesmer and Warrior and actually use the skills to better understand them.

Edit: To the person inquiring about the Mesmer F skills:
F1: Mind Wrack: Just damage (until you add in traits)
F2: Cry of Frustration: Confusion stacks (untratied)
F3: Distraction: 1 second daze for each clone (untraited single target)
F4: Distortion: 1 second of invulnerable state for each clone

GankSinatra.2653:

This game is all just abilities slapped onto a class with very poor insight on the developers part. Dont try to find reasons for why things are as they are.

The more I play this game the more this statement comes true sadly.

I am just asking to fix a cheese skill that is truly ruining sPvP for me in the Raid of Cap map. Since Rangers are a “Hot Stuff” now everyone and their mothers are hopping on the Ranger band wagon trying to evade their way to victory. It is annoying seeing 5 Rangers on the same team; just like it was when everyone was a Thief/Elemenatlist. I don’t care how they fix it: Remove it, adjust the values, cap the healing, etc. I honestly don’t care. Just fix it. It is match breaking to have one Ranger sit on the point and just revive himself against one or two opponents ( I have heard claims of some reviving themselves under focus fire from three people).

Not underwater.

How much longer will you allow a broken Ranger down state skill “Lick Wounds” to stay in the game in its current function?

It is really trying to have a Ranger go down without so much of a fight then all of a sudden become a tank that will revive himself no matter what you do. It is a cheap and corny mechanic that needs to be toned down harshly.

Suggestions on fixing it:

1) Tone down the heal to a appropriate level, as in 50% of his down state health max.

2) Make the skill actually stop if you stun, daze, sink, float, or kill the stupid pet (do not allow him to switch pets to continue, that should interrupt the channel).

Thanks in advance.

From the title I assume you can also taste and smell in color.

Embolism.8106:

Vanthian.9267:

Also, to the “they have no boons” argument… You can easily trait for protection on gaining regeneration.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Membrane

If you want to participate in this debate you should at least have a decent knowledge of the profession being discussed. Illusionary Membrane is on a 15s CD and the Protection procced is very short.

Considering I linked them, I believe you are completely off thinking I don’t know how they work. The fact I was pointing out to all the Mesmer’s crying rivers is that the “No boons” argument is stupid and unjustified as you have boons.

If you want to try and call people out, you should be more intelligent about who you pick. As you have failed horribly here.

BurrTheKing.8571:

fost.9167:

Bump, what gears are you using? Do you go full zerker?

I would say zerkers is superior to say Rampager’s because while the extra damage on the bleeds and fire may be nice your damage will probably suffer in the long run. I would use a rune set that deals with conditions but still be focused on damage.

Or you could go full condition damage and have your Longbow 5 do 16k damage in bleed damage over 20 seconds. I have bleed many a noob in WvW to death just but hitting them with Longbow 5 and 3. Pretty funny.

Is it great? Absolutely not. It is funny to hit someone with one skill and watch them auto down because they carry no condition removal? Yes….

I brought this up a couple of days again in the general Mesmer forum. They didn’t take the discussion to well; in fact, it was hardly a discussion at all…

I agree that it needs a cool down increase. Having Sword/x—-Staff is basically a super defensive build if you can take advantage of the cheesy Blurred Frenzy and Phase Retreat correctly. I started rolling with a Mesmer in sPvP after I realized the Warriors are never going to actually be buffed in a decent manner. I can say, I fully take advantage of the cheesy skills and win without much effort now.

Also, to the “they have no boons” argument… You can easily trait for protection on gaining regeneration.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Membrane

The big plus is they are both “minor” Mastery Traits. So, you kind of get the protection and regeneration for free just trating into the lines.

They also have Distortion to use (which is another invulnerability). There are other things Mesmer’s can do to stay in melee range and these are just a couple of them.

Anyway I am done responding to comments. Best of luck in game and have fun, but don’t forget to try Warrior out in sPvP.

zaxon.6819:

ehh. im going to hotjoin some spvp on a lvl 2 warrior tonight.. if i beat up anyone standing next to a bunker guardian warriors are official op.

Yes, go and find the worst possible people to try the Warrior against. I am sure you will still find it very hard to win.

The people I fought were not horrible but I openly admitted they are not the best (they are a little below average/average at best). This doesn’t change the fact that even though I have the skill to beat said people I know that I would never have been able to do so on Warrior. I have played Warrior much longer than Mesmer and should be able to do more with the Warrior, but that is not the case due to class balancing.

zaxon.6819:

i would say blurred frenzy is a good skill. but if you are using it as a defensive tool its a waste imo. may as well just dodge roll instead and use your frenzy to kill something.

I don’t use it only for defense. I am saying it is coupled together with offense and defense unlike Hundred Blades for the Warrior. Also, a dodge roll doesn’t make you completely invulnerable to attacks for 2 seconds. Dodges are more like 0.75 seconds. You can also not dodge while immobilized.

Arganthium.5638:

So, again, I’ll ask: what unit of measurement do you use to decide whether or not something is overpowered, since it is a relative term? What makes your unit of measurement any more correct than any other unit of measurement? Finally, why should we use your unit of measurement anyways?

You are the type of person who would argue for the sake of it. The unit is there and already explained as it has been since the beginning. You refuse to accept that the word defines itself and its own “measure” just being here. It has been stated multiple times…. the measure is against similar skills of the same design. To make this 100% clear, as it has already been stated twice now, SELF ROOT CHANNELED SKILLS. By golly I do believe that is the type of skill Blurred Frenzy is in Guild Wars 2! It has been said by not just me, but another as well. The other poster was kind enough to link the other two said skill and explain, as he called, “lol-balancing” of the three. Enough is enough. You think you are trying to dig in some type of philosophical debate when the debate is already dead and over with some time ago on what your “measure unit” is for the skills.

From your perspective you are asking me why I think 5 inches is longer than 2 inches. When it has been stated multiple times that the 5 inches is longer than the 2. Yet, you continually seek to try and justify that I have no unit of measurement between the two. The two things are similar, as in they both are the measurement of length (in our real case we are talking about self root channels), but yet you refuse to accept that you can compare the two just with that simple understanding of the basic definition.

This is not college. You will not receive a A+ for trying to fluff a argument.

If you choose to try and “dig” some more, please do so in your own backyard as I grow tried of this.

zaxon.6819:

you keep talking about blur frenz being an op defensive tool which it is i guess. but if you are using frenzy as a defensive tool you are not using it as an offensive and it is the only source of damage sword has. i can just picture youur game play since you think the point of sword is to invuln for 2 seconds. you hide behind a rock or wall spam some clones shatter them… hide or run or frenzy and try to stall until you can generate some more clones,,,, hide and run away and hope you dont get targeted. yay your good. you played some crap people get over yourself.

Actually no, I don’t run and hide. I actually stay with the person because they don’t’ expect that. That also utilizes my traits better since I create a shatter on myself. I do not use mind wrack unless I am on them, which is most of the time. However, I do shatter then instantly spawn a Phantasm. It would be pretty dumb not to considering it can deal damage for 15 seconds or so while I get into position for my next shatter while it is on cool down.

The fight occurred on the Legacy of the Foefire map on the Quarry node. So the only place to run and hide would be to the south which would have been their base.

loseridoit.2756:

Vanthian.9267:

loseridoit.2756:

utilities?

Standard: Blink, Decoy, Mirror Images, Mass Invisibility

yikes. not a standard build. your build is pure dueling

usually people run

mirror images or decoy, portal, blink or illusion of life

Above in the other post I said standard Shatter, not standard tPvP build. This is a self build for Hot Joins. I have only seen portal once in hot joins.

loseridoit.2756:

Yendorion.2381:

“sPvP and SOLOED a Bunker Guardian and condition Necromancer AT THE SAME TIME”. I stopped reading there…

depending on the build. its not that hard to do. Kill the necro first since conditions are mesmer’s worse nightmare then kill the guard.

Depending on the build, this feat will be pretty difficult if the op does not bring condition removal

I burst down the Necromancer in 3 waves of clones/phantmas using Mind Wrack/Cry/Mind Wrack. So he was alive for a little over, I would say, 20-30 seconds. Boons mean nothing to a Mesmer since I can easily strip them 4 at a time. Also note this damage is aoe and I am pretty sure the Guardian ate some of the Mind Wrack the second time around as he was standing to close (which is another huge point for Mesmer AoE massive damage).

loseridoit.2756:

utilities?

Standard: Blink, Decoy, Mirror Images, Mass Invisibility

Godmoney.2048:

He’s bringing up a perfectly valid point. What is OP supposed to mean?

In WARhammer when they first released patch 1.4 that raised the Renknown Rank to 100 the first players who got RR 90 gear could LITERALLY solo 10-20 people. That was OP. A RR100 player could easily solo 24 RR 80 people. Literally RR 100 might as well been god mode. That was op.

Mesmer’s in their current state against good players are “good” not op though.

Guan Yu on release in SMITE was OP. Xin Xao in League of Legends on release was OP.

I don’t see mesmer’s as being as close to game breaking as the examples I’ve just given. Mesmer’s are on the side of strong for sure but so are DD ele’s, Healway Guardian, Regen Rangers, Condi Engi’s, etc.

The English language has definitions for words. Over Powered, in gamer terminology is this: Being far superior to anything any other profession can weld. Insurmountable in terms of defense and offensive capability.

In another sense, no other skill another profession has can come close (even a little) to Blurred Frenzy in the terms of usefulness. It is pretty cheesy. It is not the skill itself that makes it cheesy. It is the cool down plus what it does and how it does it that combine to make this skill OP. No other self rooting skill turns toward the target. No other self rooting skill is completely unstoppable on use (the Thief’s flurry has a small window where you can stun or stop the skill). No other invulnerable state can be ended early like Blurred Frenzy. These things all add up to make a pretty outstanding skill on a mere 8 second cool down.

Edit: Also forgot to note the length of the invulnerable state. 2 seconds. Thief’s evades for what, lets be nice, 0.75 seconds? Rangers evade at best 0.5 seconds?

loseridoit.2756:

I kidda agree that that combo have a ridiculous amount of survability. However, the combo is actually separated by a weapon swap and not meant to do damage.

Hundred blades does a ton more damage than blurred frenzey.

Can you please posted the build you are arguing that is OP? Mesmer have so many variable of builds in spvp that everyone will have a different opinion

In fact, my joke build is a balance build which allow me to fight 1 vs many physical damage classes.

It is just the staple shatter build, 20/20/0/0/30. With Sword/Pistol (or sword)—-Staff. Sigil for Sword-Fire, Pistol-Leeching (my preferred), Staff—Leeching. Since you can only swap weapons every 10 seconds you will get the leeching effect every time which heals for 1-1.5k which is nice.
Traits:
20 First Line: Trait I and VII
20 Second Line: Trait V (or II) and X
0 Third
0 Fourth
30 Fifth: Trait I, VI, and XI

Pretty standard all except for the sigil. The Runes I run are divinity if I remember correctly to round out a little health and armor. I also use a berserker amulet.

Arganthium.5638:

And yet you still have not mentioned a single measure of how something is “OP”. In other words, you don’t have one.

So, my question then would be this- what is “OP” about being invulnerable, in and of itself? What would change if BF didn’t have the evasion on it, and somebody tried to use it on top of you?

Sigh, I have been ignoring you because it is not worth answering someone who wants to be… do not know how to put it a nice way… a “intelligent and philosophically minded individual”. It is not worth my time to actually present things to, even though someone already has including myself, and is already present in the definition in the word. Common sense can explain the meaning of term “over powered”. If you do not understand the phase/term, then please use the internet to look it up and then adjust the meaning of the word into a video game format. I have already explained it once and I will not repeat myself.

Eclispo.2703:

Frankly i’m not gonna entertain you anymore. What I got from your all post is this your qqing because the Warrior is not the most op class in the game point blank and simple. Your made because warriors are not the warriors from wow were you can run in and kill everything in seconds and hardly take any damage. Well i’m sry get over it Mesmers have their own problems as do Warriors but you are just being so stupid that you refuse to look at the kitten con’s of the class and until you do I think you should shut your mouth because the only thing that is coming out of it is biased crap. Good bye. Then I guess you forgot all about the cd on our weapon swap well I guess you would forget since as a war your wep swap can be brought down to 3-4sec and as for phase retreat thats so easy to see through that its not funny you teleport back wards all people have to do is go for the one further back -_- its called watching position as for the blurred combo again wep swap and what are you going to do once you blow your cd on your utility and your stuck with sword? Prob die why because ur swap is on cd and if you want to do damage you gotta get close. Again anyway im done go back to wow if you want the super no damage taking high attack power warrior goodbye

You never entertained me to being with.

First, I don’t’ play WoW actively and “hard core”. I found the game very boring and everything was the same rotation. I played for all of 1 month then quit because I did not enjoy the game. Instead, I played Guild Wars 1 from launch to until Guild Wars 2 launch.

I am not mad nor do I want Warrior to be the OP. It is foolish to ask for a class to OP. I am merely stating what is in this game. I would rather have classes that are balanced for a decent PvP experience. Guild Wars 1 was not balanced around duels because we had actual PvP in that game. True group organization and tactics to play with. This is a node capping game, which comes down to a mini series of 1v1, 2v1, and sometimes 3v3. The balance is better suited around 1v1 for such small fights. Where as in Guild Wars 1 we could balance for team play becuase no one character could heal/damage/control all by themselves. Guild Wars 2 is different because one character can do all of those things.

I am asking for better balance than what is currently given and currently Mesmers are the best dueling class.

You can mock and make fun all you want, but that won’t get rid of the issue at hand that most people can see.

There are few downsides to Mesmer. I have went full berserker as a Mesmer and I have, like I said before, at least 10 times the ability to survive. It is just innate class design.

Instead of making fun of the person maybe you could be of help and actually come up with a decent argument as to how they are not OP. I have given proof along with another poster as to how they have over powered skills in comparison to the rest of the classes. Please show me how you think they are not?

Edit: Secondly, I just noticed you mentioned our “Super high attack power”. You must PvE more than anything. This is in regards to PvP balance not PvE. Anything that is… umm… “paying attention” shall we say can easily coast through the PvE in this game.

Dawdler.8521:

Oh the horror, Mesmer has vigor on crit?!?! NEEEEEEEEEEEERF!!!

Wait, Engineer has it too? NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERF!!!

The Warrior has two times the duration AoE vigor and AoE weakness at the same time with a couple of seconds downtime??!!! BUUUUUUUUFFFFFFF!!!

You are either not very bright or truly believe the Warrior has that much vigor…. Warhorn is useless in sPvP for Warrior. Even then, you can have at max, using just the Warhorn, vigor up to 50% of the time. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Call_to_Arms

But you would be giving up a stun and your only block for vigor for 10 seconds (which is only 2 dodges). The weakness will be wiped by most other classes anyway (Ranger/Guardian passively) and won’t really be effective anyway due to its 6 seconds duration.

The block for 3 seconds is of more help than vigor for 10. Mesmers can have permanent vigor at no cost, unlike the Warrior who would have to trait and give up his decent offhand for a crappy one. It is a non argument.

Also, Engineer does not have vigor on critical hit. They gain vigor upon buffing themselves with swiftness. Even then, it is only 5 seconds of vigor.

Elidath.5679:

Vanthian.9267:

I went in to sPvP and SOLOED a Bunker Guardian and condition Necromancer AT THE SAME TIME. You can call me a lair if you want, but I 1v2 and won with ease.

A mesmer winning with ease against a (supported) condi necro? I think we need to call the MIB, Mulder & Scully and professor Layton, something is definitely wrong here!

Really nothing strange about it if you can time your abilities and invulnerable states right. He can’t put conditions on me if he can’t hit me/see me. Plus, Necromancers well bombs are laughably easy to dodge over and ruin their entire set up.

Dess.4391:

Awesome! Keep it like that and youll be food for everyone that knows how to fight a mesmer (wich is getting more common) and in some time youll come to QQ mesmers are UP

Highly doubtful. As long as you can spam a invulnerable state every 8 seconds there is really nothing to fear. This is not even taking into account the free “semi stun breaker” phase retreat that is also on a 8 second cool down. You can survive a long time just by circling through your defenses and leaving out phantasms to kill your opponent.

Just a small demo of what you could do (not saying this is the best): Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat>Decoy>Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat>Blink>Blurred Frenzy>Phase Retreat > Mirror Images>…… repeat chain

As long as you can do this chain you will be hard press to die in any situation (notice this is not even using distortion nor mass invisibility). The only other class that might come close to actual stun breakers/invulnerable states like this is the Ranger, but even they are hard press to chain so long and can’t do so as effectively.

I never asked for a nerf, merely congratulating you on choosing the OP class in comparison to the rest.

I have played all class in WvW (which is PvE to me) and most to 80 in general PvE. I have a fairly adept understanding of all the classes and what they can do and what they can not. Mesmer is by far the worst or second worst culprit for having the most Defense for the least amount of investment.

Yes, other classes have permanent vigor through critical hits, but only Guardian and Elementalist outside of Mesmer. Guardian and Elementalist has other traits for dodges but I will not go into them. Engineers have it trough gaining swiftness. Thieves through using healing skills, but they also recoup some dodge on use. Rangers have vigor from: Being hit by critical strike for 5s every 15 seconds, also have a +50% increased regen rate as a passive, gain vigor on heal, and can have pets give aoe vigor for 5 seconds.

What does the Warrior have in comparison to all of this? Vigor on stances (which stances have 25/40/60/90 cool downs for 8 seconds of vigor, no one will ever use Berserkers Stance at 25 seconds cool down because it is a waste of a skill) and we can gain vigor when being hit for more than 10% of our health and get 10 seconds of vigor, this can only happen once every 30 seconds. Please also note that these traits are MASTER traits for Warrior where as most of the vigor traits for other classes are adept. Also, no one brings Warhorn into sPvP because it is a crappy offhand and is only good for keeping up swiftness for long intervals. Trying to argue against that is… not bright to say the least.

Most of you don’t’ seem to understand how powerful Blurred Frenzy is in comparison to anything else in this game. There is literally no other skill with such a short cool down that makes you completely invulnerable to attacks while still damaging a foe. The fact you have a SPAMABLE invulnerably is just stupid. No other class has this. This is not stealth, this is not blocking (which a lot of skills are unblock-able anyway), this is more like evading. Rangers have spam able evades if you want, but that is as close as you will get. Even then, the Rangers only have a short 0.5 second window of evade on their attacks, nothing that last 2 seconds. They can also be stunned/stopped before the evade take effect unlike the Mesmers. They are also locked in place before and after the evade happens, unlike the Mesmer who has free control until the invulnerable state kicks in and then free control after the 2 seconds (or before if they choose to end the state early). The Ranger is stuck in his attack until it is over, you can choose to end yours.

I have been thoughtful and considered all the classes and looked at all weapons for all classes. There is not another weapon skill in this game that is overly defense and offensive as Blurred Frenzy. Not just this one skill makes the class the best in the game. It is also, what most of you said, your “Faulty Clones that deal almost no damage” is also a huge problem with the class. They are ranged projectile blocks for no sacrifice that also deal decent damage, constantly, and until shattered or killed will stay on target. It is the fact that these phantasm can live forever unless they are: Shatter/killed or the target dies. Only one of those three things is negative and even then, they are easily replaced. As a dueling class this plus all the rest is over powered.

Like I said before, I am not yelling nor raging that this is in game. I understand that there will always be a class on top of the rest, there has to be. This game will never achieve perfect balance, but they can certainly do a lot better than what is in the game now.

As it stands, Mesmer is by far the most OP class for 1v1 in this game. Hands down. Now, for 1vX I might hand it to Guardian, but that is only because I think he would live a little bit longer than the Mesmer.

This thread was just made to highlight the ease of which it is for a Mesmer to kill people versus Warrior. There is a stark difference in attention required/skill needed in order to down and stomp someone. While playing Warrior I had to be on my feet at all times identifying what I thought the other players could through at me and dodge or block it ahead of time. With the Mesmer, I just offense until I see a number on me then use one of my five “oh crap” buttons then proceed to offense again. I don’t really need to pay attention nor try very hard to predict what they are going to do, because I have the resources to negate and deny the damage while it happens anyway.

Anyway, best of luck with drops and what not in the game. Enjoy it and best of luck in sPvP.