Guild Wars 2

Scorael.8952:

I think the warrior meant to say burst damage. I guess it is possible if one specialises as a glass cannon but that would ruin our survivability, won’t it? I suppose it also relies on the enemy blindly walking into the Giant Fiery Tooth of Doom That Has Red Circles.

Much akin to the, “Please stand in front of me while I swing my sword for 3 seconds in the same area, WAIT NOOO… you moved…”

Wfuavenger.9826:

. I would like someone in NCSOFT to please respond with a statistic of kill/death ratio for the overall elementalist class in sPvP. I would be happy with a random sampling. I bet it is abismal compared to any other class.

I would like to offer up all of the warriors in sPvP stats added together or averaged, doesn’t matter, compared to your new “horrible” kills/death ratio.

You would cry and never complain about being bad in sPvP or tPvP again if you could see those numbers.

WIGZ.8245:

warrior-damage, survivability

Correction needed:

Warrior – Damage (while in 100-150 range)

plasmacutter.2709:

Let me know when these “other” bunkers have a base HP of 10k and cloth armor.

And btw, you’re a flat-out liar. Guardian bunkers depend as much on boon duration as the eles, and they get swiftness too.

There’s a reason we have all this other stuff. A good solid burst will swat us like flies!

Mean while, in WvW a d/d ele tanks 15 people while killing 3 and gets away!. No need for nerfs. The ele is obviously working as intended. Moving on.

felivear.1536:

Xenth.2408:

boohoo. They added something to the game that doesn’t benefit you. Didn’t they also add new pvp stuff that doesn’t benefit those of us that prefer PVE/WVW?

Big deal!

Yep, we got colored background for our action bars. Jealous?

You can’t comprehend the jealous I feel towards the outrage of you getting the colored backgrounds while the PvE Environment remains all colorless and broken :c.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

I assume everyone can tell who Im talking about. She logged before I could ask, so what is this?

The shoulders are tier 2 human cultural. Pants are level 80 crafted Blues and greens (Barbaric Set). The Gloves & Chest are level 80 crafted rares (Gladiator Set). I can’t see the boots well so I can’t id them sorry :/.

I agree. Warriors need something more than just high damage.

The sad part is, at the start of the game Warriors were crowned the king of stability (due to their direct access to it), but, as it turns out, the ranger has a elite skill that gives almost the same amount of stability that we can chain together including traits. That was the breaking point for me and the warrior class.

What would take us 195 seconds to recharge (Last Stand Trait: 90 second cool down, Balanced Stance: 45 second cool down, Dolyak Signet: 60 seconds) for 24 seconds of stability (no buff duration +) the ranger gets on 120 second cool down for 20 seconds of stability (no buff duration +) . This is one of the dumbest things I have seen. So for the price of 1 trait and 2 utility slots we can match the ranger elite skill in stability but not in what else it gives (Fury 20 seconds, swiftness 20 seconds, might on pet attack and pet gets might when player attacks 8 second duration).

To make matters worse most people write off the complaints as a “L2P” issue. That is not the problem. Sure some warriors don’t know their class well and should learn more about them, but there are some good Warriors who understand the limitations of the profession they chose. This limit is very much lower than all the other professions minus the Engineer (who is still better than the Warrior).

Granting high power and heavy hits to a class is not a adequate reason to forego everything else that is necessary to PvP.

Look at the thief, they have better burst than the warrior while still have ten times better defensive abilities; all because we can hit for maybe 4k more damage if someone stands in front of us for a 100 blades to the face. Sure the thief has to: Mug+Backstab+Heartseeker+Heartseeker for the same damage, but their damage comes quicker and is much harder to avoid.

The biggest peeve about the Warrior class I have are all of our “Crowd Control” effects. What is the purpose of being able to have at max 8 effects (Mace 3 daze, Mace 5 line knockdown, Mace Burst stun, Hammer 4 knockback, Hammer 5 knockdown, Hammer burst aoe stun, Bulls Charge knock down, Stomp knockdown/back) when almost all the other classes have GOOD utility skills that break stun. The only skills on a Mesmer that I can think of that don’t break stun are their signets (even then I might be wrong).

Even then, if you went into PvP with that kind of set up you would get destroyed instantly. You have 1 distance closer (Bull Charge) and every class has at LEAST 1 push back, immobilize, cripple, chill, stun, knockdown,stun, and daze FROM RANGE. This alone makes it ten times harder for a Warrior to do damage.

Don’t even get me started on all the perma vigor builds for mesmer, eles, etc.

All in all, Warriors need some serious help for PvP.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Daecollo.9578:

5: Applies Regeneration (3s) and cure a condition when you dodge roll.
15: Gain Protection (2s.) and cure a condition when you fall below 50% health.
25: Become immune to conditions while reviving.

I think just 5 should stay the same then 15 becomes gain 2s protection and cure a condition at 50% health and 25 should be cure a condition when you dodge roll.

Those would be good changes and might actually make a warrior remotely useful in pvp

Agreed. Finally having access to a somewhat decent condition removal/regen… I would kill all the Charr in Tryia for that.

Feni.4306:

Not to mention whenever he immobilized me to use his 2 with scepter, shake it off kept removing the kittening vuln instead of the immobilize so I had to eat the entire thing twice.

Your best bet to remove immobilization (because all the good players will cover it with something else) is your Mobile Strike trait. Trait X in the Discipline tree (bottom tree). Every time you use a skill that uses movement (aka: Savage Leap, Whirlwind Attack, Rush, Bulls Rush, etc.) it will remove immobilization from you.

In that situation I would suggest one of these two things:
1) Get some range between you and the guardian and start snaring and immobilizing him (trait I in the Tactics tree: Leg Specialist). Guardians have poor range and do not have very strong ranged moves. While you have the rifle. Try to keep up the snare and cripple. Do your best not to waste your dodge on small dmg skills. Save them for the big things (such as dodging the cc). You are also very vulnerable to conditions as a warrior (just be aware of this).

2) Run. If you are ahead in the puzzle then Rifle 2 him and try to run ahead.

I agree with the OP. It is the dumbest thing I have seen in a MMO to date. Why people would want such a weapon is beyond me. It is neither fun nor funny.

To all the people saying it is homophobia that is driving this: Way to be a prick. We can have a opinion about a item and it not be driven by your fear of having someone not agreeing with someone else’s life style.

Vanille.6407:

2. They’re awesome for pvp.

Correction: 2. They’re unstoppable for pvp.

Napalm.5693:

I am looking to make a dedicated PVE farmer character and was leaning towards warrior or guardian. Is warrior worth making for PVE? I would be interested in farming ORR and Karka shells as well as dungeons. If not warrior what else?

Warriors are really good at killing fast and moving from place to place, but suffer from defensive issues (until you learn how to dodge properly and use a shield).

Guardians have been stated (and I played one for 40 levels) to kill very slowly at high levels. They are also less mobile than the warrior (due to rush, whirlwind, savage leap, shield bash, bulls rush combo to go fast), but the plus side to Guardian is you should basically never die once you understand the class.

I would say roll the warrior for PvE farming for zones. Roll the Guardian for dungeons.

Braxxus.2904:

…, but not in the top tier like the above four and engi’s and warriors are in the “need some fundamental fixes” tier.

Might want to watch out making statements like this. The “WARRIORS AER OP” people will come for you.

I would like to add that you need to be aware of the profession limitations in this game. I am not saying it is all of the Warriors fault, but I have found that there is indeed a ceiling for warriors and it comes up much quicker than the mesmers.

There is only so much you can do without the access to hard boons that almost all other classes have (or stealth like a thief).

1v1s’ are the worst for warriors against anything other than thief (in my opinion). The other classes just have to many boons for you to actually get your damage through. You can try to chain stun them but that will only lead to them either using a stun breaker then using vigor to dodge the rest or at worst use two of their three stun breaks. On top of all this, with the current set up in tPvP and sPvP warriors damage is just not effective. With all the bunkers sitting on points it is nearly pointless.

The Warrior class can try to bunker (and believe me people will argue we can bunker as well as any other class but that is just not true) but that is not what our class excels at. A bunker Guardian, Engineer, Mesmer, Necromancer, and Thief are all better than the bunker Warrior.

Our class has the big direct numbers. That is it. So unless you run into someone that doesn’t know their class or is new to the game, the outcome is mostly settled. Although, hot join pvp has a lot of people who do not understand what is happening. So, the Greatsword —- Sword/shield (or axe/shield) works wonders on them.

wintermute.4096:

Because Magic Find stat was such a praised success…

If you are denying the effects of +gold% then I have nothing to say to you.

When it is quite clear that under the effects of a omnom bar while running CoF path 1 nets you a extra 10 silver for the run ( 4 silver more for the champion slaver and 6 silver more for the final boss). After ten runs , that is one gold more than what someone else will have that does not use them.

Now think of all the “hardcore players” in this game. Now think instead of only have 40% more they have say 80% more. The next time a new Ascended item comes out they now have 120% more. It can grow quite quickly if left unchecked and it is a concerning matter for the economy. Anyone who is not farming 24/7 but rather is playing to enjoy the game will be left behind very quickly.

As to the argument that we won’t receive laurels fast. They have already stated they will award laurels for previous achievements accomplished. They have not stated when but I would be surprised if it is not within the next two months.

Zogyark.4597:

Your math is based on assumptions, so far only amulets offer the utility slot and like the poster above said it takes a while to get both. Amulets might be the only ones for gilded infusions for all we know.

I thought the infusions were all versatile since the whole, 75 relics for defense verse 150 for offense fiasco. I should take more time to look at what type of infusions there are.

I have not checked this yet but now I am under the impression that since there are three of the same rings that one will have this new utility slot on it. I will check in game and edit soon.

Edit: You are correct the rings for laurels only have offense and defense slots.

Conncept.7638:

Nobody ever said you cannot or should not be able to say whatever you want, just that you’re a dirtbag if you use that right for nothing but disrespect, childish complaints, and written/verbal abuse. Which is completely true.

Really? That is what you come back with?

How is it childish for someone to have a legitimate complaint about a product he purchased with his money? Now, if he is doing nothing but insulting, see quote above, I see the problem, but if he is only asking and doing so out of concern for his investment there is nothing wrong.

Hammerguard.9834:

Really though, is this the only option I have? A whole other dungeon set just for its stats?

Sadly, yes. Or at least in my experience that is the only thing I could find that would get me the look that I want with the stats that I want. (Mix of dungeon/crafted gear with knights stats). Using the Fine Transmutation stones to mix the armors together.

Minion of Vey.4398:

I think both the +20% gold and even more so the +20% MF ones are grossly overtuned and need to be nerfed.

Pretty seriously nerfed too. If they were +5% for each…many people would still use them.

The karma infusions, in my opinion are fine. As they have little to no effect on the actual market. (due to not being able to salvage/sell your exotics from karma). I may have a different opinion though with the new “lost jewel box” fever that has sprung up.

The gilded infusion will, if left unchecked, really hamper things in the future. (in my opinion)

DISCLAIMER: I am not complaining in anyway. Thank you.

I have a couple questions for the developers: 1) Why gilded infusions?

Note: Gilded Infusion: +20% gold from monsters.

I understand the community at large complains about the drop rates and the horrible DR that plagues the great land of Tryia, but why add a new infusion that is basically a must have for a PvE environment?

They are not unique which means 1 is not enough and 12 will be needed (currently only 4 are needed) eventually to have “max” PvE stats.

With each hitting at 20 laurels each I can see that it will take some time (granted not to long) to max out with this new Gilded fashion. With a omnom bar this will take your earning (at current max) to +80% gold, while at the end of the Ascended road to +280% gold from monsters.

The math: Eventually all gear will be of Ascended level for max, which will include a infusion slot. In turn, it will be filed with a Gilded Infusion for +20% gold form monsters. So 12 items time 20% is 240%. Finally add on your omnom bar to get 280%.

2) Will this not make a very wide gap between the already majority “Stock Holders” verse the rest of the populace?

There are those that can barely stay a float as it is in this economy with the ever increasing prices due to “high roller trading”. This will (eventually) increase that rate at a rate that will not, and can not, be seen.

I don’t mind them being in the game, but this will affect the prices of “high end” items.

To the player base.
Please keep it civil. I am merely asking a question.

edit: clear up question two.

MarzAttakz.9608:

How exactly does mobility aid you in PVE (not counting Orr) other than running away when things go wrong? Where are you going to run to in dungeons?

Kiting. Keeping distance. Getting behind them. Moving out of red circles. Shall I go on?

Puandro.3245:

The problem is that ATM there is no way an ele achieve warrior DPS in PvE even if they give up all of their utility and buffs. Let’s not even mention being twice as easy to down in PvE if you decide to go that route.

There is no reason for a ele and warrior dmg to match up exactly. A guardian could complain about the same thing. A warrior can complain that they don’t have the boons and buffs of a elementalist and a guardian. Point is, the dmg gap between a warrior and ele is honestly not that big. The dmg done at the end of a boss fight might be the difference of 20-30k tops.

I see no problem with ele’s dmg being slightly lower. Even if you spec full power, you still have more mobility and healing than a warrior could.

It would be a rather boring game if everyone hit for the same direct damage, applied the same conditions, and had access to the same defensive.

Diviner.7405:

Look at Lupi. That boss is the hardest boss in the game for all the right reasons. He has multiple phases with different attacks that hit you hard if you do not know what you are doing. You will wipe multiple times if its your groups first time. He is “challenging content” and no one can deny this. The thing that sets Lupi different then Simin is that no matter what your build is, you still can do it. If everyone is specced as tank, its just going to take more time. For Simin, it becomes impossible and there in lies the problem.

We did Lupi in one go no deaths. I am not saying the team I was in was the best in the world, but we are fairly skilled. The only reason we couldn’t beat simin wasn’t due to running the sparks. It was all because of the dps measuring stick.

Puandro.3245:

Vanthian.9267:

Puandro.3245:

When you have Guards and Mesmers Eles bring nothing to the table.

You could easily build a ele to have 3.4k attack with 50+ crit dmg and 40+ critical chance just like the warriors. The only difference is they have 100 blades. So, a ele could easily pump out a lot of dmg while still add conditions. Not just two conditions, but around 5 while still having control on their weapon set.

My main is an ele i am proficient with all weapon combinations and i am aware how good the ele is in certain scenarios. Ele will NEVER pull the DPS a warrior can, + a warrior has FGJ and Discipline banner to further increase dps. For you do add buffs to the group you need to attunement swap and that lowers your own personal dps.

Maybe that is okay. Not every profession should be 100% alike. Not every profession in this game should be able to hit a max of say 20k crit dmg. If you were able to pull a 20k crit off with a ele like you can with a warrior’s 100 blade then you would need to give the warrior all the buffs the ele’s get. You want to complain about a dmg gap of maybe 5k dmg ( which is not all that much) when the defensive gap is unthinkable. I would kill every Charr in Guild Wars 2 to have a perma vigor, swiftness, and fury boon on my warrior.

I don’t understand everyone’s agruement for lower dps on attunement swap. When I swap attunements my skills are on CD, it is gaining dps swaping to another element to have more skill. So fire→earth→fire, when I am in earth my fire skills are on cd anyway. You can say, well take longer for your attunement swap to recharge than the skills. Well, maybe skill 1 and 2, but for 4 and 5 that is untrue. Your hard hitting spells are are cd (Fire Grab for instant) for what? 45seconds? Or a little less? 30seconds? It takes all of 9 seconds for a attument to recharge with max arcane.

George Steel.1804:

See, individuals like you totally screw up people’s perception of the boss. Guess what, you were doing it wrong.

We did it with 2 thiefs, 1 Mesmer, 1 ele (not specced full dps) and me, a guardian, with 1400 healing power.

She healed five times and we killed her. She doesn’t heal too fast, you just need people to learn how to kite sparks in faster.

Each time we would get her lower and lower.
It was a blast

0 warriors.

Thieves, if built right, have very high dmg output with just their auto attacks on their daggers. None of us in my group were dps because we don’t’ play in that fashion. We play defensively. So none of us had over 2.7k attack. You need to have at least 3 members in the group with around 2.9k attack + to even have a chance at beating her I am willing to bet. Which means they are trying to force a group into 3 dps + 2 support or either 4 dps + 1 support.

MarzAttakz.9608:

3k attack rating with how much hp + armour? Combined with almost perma fury, swiftness and minimum 5 stacks of might? And people kitten about ele boons. About the only bad thing warriors have going for them is less condition removal than an ele (who is traited for it). Biased much?

I play both warrior and elementalist. Sure my warrior might have 3.2k attack with 47% crit chance and 50 critical dmg but I only have 2.8k armor with 19k health. Now that sounds impressive but in reality I have to stand still to greatly benefit from all that attack dmg. Where as my ele is still mobile and could accomplish the same thing.

Puandro.3245:

When you have Guards and Mesmers Eles bring nothing to the table.

You could easily build a ele to have 3.4k attack with 50+ crit dmg and 40+ critical chance just like the warriors. The only difference is they have 100 blades. So, a ele could easily pump out a lot of dmg while still add conditions. Not just two conditions, but around 5 while still having control on their weapon set.

Zenith.7301:

Hah! 2.7k attack only and you “destroy” things? Don’t wonder then why people don’t take you seriously when you consider such a mediocre attack stats (berk warriors easily boast over 3k) to be “destroying”.

That 3k attack warrior can boost all he wants. It means nothing when he is on his back.

That is all the warriors have is that “over 3k attack”. They give everything in their lives for that 3k attack. I give up nothing to get 2.7k easy. “Zerker” warriors sit around 3.2k – 3.4k attack unbuffed. The only difference between my ele and them on attack is 500 at best and 700 at worst.

But tell me, what good is that attack when they can’t even take 3 hits before kicking the bucket? That is right, it is useless. Not to mention I have on protection. So their “over 3k” power is more like 0 power if they don’t have a baby sitter. Also, they have crap healing while the ele has extremely awesome healing. Ele also has protection which everyone knows is one of the best boons in the game. You write off the ele as weak and you don’t even understand their strong points.

Fildydarie.1496:

Why would you want to fix an encounter designed to require more than just DPS? It sounds like it is the one encounter that works right to me.

It is not running the sparks that people complain about, it is the ridiculous amount of regen while she is stealth that people complain about.

Using OP terms, after phase 1 of the fight you need EXTREME DPS to get her low enough to even have a chance at killing her after the second spark run. It is a insane DPS check. One that is not needed. It would be fine if they just made the regen slower. Not every class can crit for a easy 12-20k like a warrior.

Unless the group is comprised of nothing but warriors this encounter is a nightmare.

I just tired to help some of my in game friends get their dungeon title. This is the path they have not completed yet. They are good players. It was a well meshed group. The only downfall to our group is we play defensively. So after phase 1, we would chop off another 15% of her health before she would stealth. She can easily heal that in around 15 seconds (if not sooner).

So we got stuck on a infinite loop. Not because we lack the skill. Only due to lack of dps.

The Group: 2 Warriors, Guardian, 2 Elementalists

DaedalusDragon.3754:

New name after patch: Warrior Wars 2

More like Ranger Wars 2.

Just like in Guild Wars 1 when the Ranger spike team was hot stuff. Epic single target damage on short cool down from 900-1200 range away! No need to leave your base!

Smooth Marc.8743:

Like I said before elementalist are fine to do all content in the game and great sword damge is broken theres not much left to discuss.

There is nothing wrong with the warrior greatsword damage. It is all the warrior has. If you took his damage away he would be like a guardian without any of his defensive skills or abilities. In other words, completely useless.

The point of the warrior is to deal damage through straight power and not via other means (aka conditions). Where as the Ele not only hits for those 2k+ hits but almost always lays a condition on top of that. You are completely negating half of the ele’s damage by turning a blind eye on the conditions.

edit: Forgot to add that all of those skills minus Churning Earth are all mobile skills, the only skill you are more than likely complaining about is 100 blades and that is a self root skill.

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

For beginner warriors I recommend Knight armor Power/Precision/Toughness although crafting them is a bit of a problem ($$$) and Arah isn’t exactly noob friendly.

You can get the Power/Precision/Toughness gear from Sorrows Embrace as well.

Building tank style does help in dungeons but the warrior (in my opinion) is not very good at staying in the front and taking dmg. They can excel when others are taking the beating while we dps.

When I first started running dungeons I went full blown tank build. 0/0/30/30/10 were my traits. I had healing shouts with solider runes with power/vit/toughness armor and weapons along with knights (power/precision/toughness) rings, etc.

I used Mace/shield + rifle. It was a decent build and I could stay fairly well in dungeons (no where near what a guardian could do though). If you run solider runes and use “For Great Justice” “Shake it Off” and “Fear Me” you can remove conditions pretty steadily and even heal for around 1.3k (if I remember correctly).

I am not saying that is the best thing I could have possibly done but it worked very well in places with tons of conditions (I am looking at you Caudecus’s Manor thieves with 12 stacks of bleed). It is a easy build to learn with a few tricks that are helpful to the team, but it will not blow your mind.

If you want a dps build for dungeons that you won’t drop instantly with then I would suggest going for Knights armor + fighter runes (or better choice divinity runes [more crit dmg] ) with knights Amulet and Trinkets but got for Berserker rings, back, and weapon. You should have around 2.9k armor with around 19k health but with 3k (minimum attack), 47% chance to crit (unbuffed) and 50 crit dmg.

If you use a great sword then I would suggest the traits of: 20/20/0/10/20. Take trait IX in power line (10% increase in dmg for great sword) and trait X in precision line ( 20% cooldown on great sword & might on crit). In the vit line (Tactics) take trait I (immobilize on cripple). For the last trait line you can take whatever you want, but I would suggest at least getting trait X (mobile strikes, to remove immobilize on you when using movement skills). Your offhand can be a rifle or whatever you want.

In my experience it is not so much your health or armor that matters, but how and what you dodge that counts.

People who complain about the ele being ineffective in pve are either blinded by a warriors root skill 100b or doesn’t understand how to play the ele.

A ele is not going to be able to stand in front of dungeon mobs and face tank something like a warrior. Granted the only difference is 2 hits, but still.

I don’t understand why people complain about the ele dmg and health so much. Mine has 16k health with 2.7k power and I destroy things in dungeons. I don’t even have all p/v/t toughness gear either. I use p/pre/crit dmg rings, etc. I have 2k armor, yes that is low, but that is not the end all be all of the survival of the ele.

The survival of the ele comes from all the boons they are blessed with. Not only can I keep up swiftness 100%, but also, Fury, and vigor. I can keep up protection, regen, might (around 3-5 stacks if I don’t combo) around 75% of the time. The protection alone makes it like I have at least 2.5k armor (if not more). The biggest thing is the vigor boon. I can dodge more than I know what to do with. Not to mention, even time I dodge I get either more dmg, condtions, or get healed and remove a condition depending on which element I choose to dodge in.

So I say, my ele is far greater compared to my warrior in both pve and pvp. The only way a warrior could win a battle is if both targets stood still and traded hit for hit.

edit to add screenshot of health perma fury/swiftness (can’t do vigor unless in battle) along with stats. Please note that is after switching elemental 3 times and using one skill.

Red Falcon.8257:

To sum up in one sentence, playing a Warrior is like going to a running contest wearing fins.

I agree with this statement for pvp.

Warriors have no real staying power in pvp. It is either you go full glass or trade off to die a little slower and get nothing done anyway. At least with glass you have a chance to catch someone off guard without a stun breaker.

I know the game was not “balanced” with 1v1 in mind, but at least the other classes have a decent 1v1. Warrior vs any skilled player of another class is pretty much death. However, if you run into those who don’t know their class then the warrior can shine.

plasmacutter.2709:

I certainly don’t believe that story.

two guardians and a warrior seem like a dream-team against a D/D ele.

all the immobilize, stun, knockdown, they outnumber the breakers D/D has, then there’s kill shot for 14k when they run… GG ele.

Properly played warrior + 2 guardian vs D/D would be a 15 second match.

That is only if they are a true team and are working together. 2 warrior pugs with a guardian pug with 0 communication have a chance to kill a d/d ele sure, but the ele has just as good as chance to kill the warriors and the guardian as well if he is truly bad.

I don’t cry about being inbalanced often, but the access to perma vigor, 3-4 different healing skills that heal for a decent chunk of health along with condition removal and some of the best utility skills in game… it needs to be looked at.

edit:
As to his anecdote…. it is very far from believable yes. The ele would have to be in constant motion, but it is very possible for the ele to win in that situation given he rolls his face fast enough on the keyboard.

plasmacutter.2709:

The negatives?

how about having to set up and wait 45 seconds to do the damage a thief can do with auto attacks in 4. (and i’m not even talking backstabs here)

D/D bunker builds do almost as little damage as burning does in those corruption fields in orr.

BTW, go check the engi forums regarding the new bunker build. People stand in breaches in WVWVW walls with that build and can hold back whole zergs while doing aoe condie damage.

Warriors can be specced to be similar to D/D in the way they operate and have 30k hp and heavy armor in addition to the other perks. They don’t because they can actually provide viable offense, while eles that go glass cannon have 10k hp and die from cleave damage before they reach their targets.

I made a ele at launch and leveled d/d. I ran dungeons d/d. I used staff sometimes but I usually went d/d because it is more fun. I did WvW d/d.

I also mad a warrior at launch leveled s/shield — bow. I ran dungeons s/shield--hammer. I also did WvW with s/shield—hammer.

Comparing my Ele to my warrior…

Ele: P/v/t Warrior: P/v/t
Health 16,185 Health: 27,000
Attack: 2,839 Attack: 2,900
Crit Chance 30% (unbuffed) Crit Chance: 21% (unbuffed)
Crit Dmg: 36 Crit Dmg: 31
Armor: 2,100 Armor: 3,300 (with shield trait)
Healing 465 Healing: 0

Now, looking at this it seems slightly balanced, but you are completely missing the key to every fight…. BOONS.

My ele can out tank my warrior any day in any fight. I have more stun breaks, movement, and healing than a warrior could hope for. Sure my warrior might hit a wee bit harder than my ele but dear Balthazar staying in the fight is only a problem for my warrior.

Not to mention my warrior has 0 chance to escape. My ele can out run any class long distance. You can not even being to compare to the two in battle.

You might say that the s/shield—hammer sucks for warrior because I have no range, well neither does that ele.

Just a side note here: My warrior uses ad-surge 8k heal at stage 3 ad 30 seconds cool down. Healing Shout for 1k with one condition removal on 25 second cool down.

Ele: 250 on cast of any skill with 3.5k on active at 25 seconds. That seems bad, but that is not where my healing comes from. Water skill 5 heal for 2k remove a condition (also heal while attuning to water) 40. Water Skill 2 888 health a tick for 4 ticks 10 SECOND COOL DOWN. Dodge roll heal for 2k remove a condition 10 SECOND COOL DOWN This does not even being to discuss the PERMA VIGOR BOON.

critickitten.1498:

Technically a cone is a volume….just sayin’. :P

I literally logged into my account to correct your statement because I cringed when I read it. Volume is the measurement of space inside of a item. Where as area refers to 2d space of a item. Then you can see that volume refers to a 3d object.

So in this case a “cone aoe” has volume (cone is a 3d object).
The cone, however, is not volume.

Because a cone is a shape not a measurement.

Now if you meant: Cone has a “volume of effect”, then that is technically correct, but this is not totally true in game. How the skills work do not reflect their shapes.

Such as, if you are standing slightly up a hill from a point where a elementlist casts “Fire Grab” it will miss you (or in my experience it does). This means that the cone has little to no height in place for the hit box, only length and width. Without a height a shape can not have volume. A item with length and width only is a 2d object which refers to area. Hence why most call the skills AoE (area of effect) instead of VoE (volume of effect).

Ripred.4605:

Whiners like you are why we can’t have nice things…

It is people like you who are blind to what things are really about and I pity you. This thread is not whining about getting the bell. It is a discussion on why the game is turning more towards RNG instead of the skill based play for achievements they said it was going to be before launch. If you had taken the time to read (I know, you are to important for such a thing) the entire thread or even 1/3 of it, you might have understood this.

laharl.8435:

This is totally off topic. But I was just wondering why you use signet heal? I have a similar warrior build and I use Healing Rush because it heals more. I’d just like to know if I’m missing something and if I should switch.

Heal signet gives you a passive regeneration heal every so often, like the guardian virtue only not as good. You can mix that with the tier 2 minor trait that gives you regeneration based on adrenaline level to get a not so great heal every 10 seconds or so (as in a couple hundred health max). It is not good, and I don’t suggest it. I only took it because I was playing around.

I usually run with Mending + Solider runes with “For Great Justice”, “Shake it off”, and “Balanced Stance”. My traits for that is 0/20/20/10/20. Get Rending Strikes (5) and Forceful Great sword (10) in Arms line. Get Turtles Defense (2) and Merciless Hammer (10) in defense line. Get Leg Specialist (1) in Tactics line. Last but not least, get Inspiring Shouts (4) and Mobile Strikes (10) in Discipline line. The weapons I use are a Great sword and Hammer. Works well for me in dungeons and FotM. I do, however, keep a sword + shield as a offhand. When I need to switch I can flop out the defense line Merciless Hammer for Shield Master. Pretty decent build for me. Good damage and critical strike chance. Depending on your armor you can have similar stats to me… 24k health, 3.3k armor, 32% critical chance unbuffed, 2.9k attack unbuffed. With this build you can easily stack might to 17 (I have gotten and kept 22+ before but those are rare moments). Hope that answers your question.

Back on topic: To those who still assume the thread is about me not getting the bell, you are wrong. This thread was made to address the drop rate of the bell and why it is on RNG to being with. Given it has a mini game built around it, I have trouble as to seeing why this was not a reward for said mini game.

Oranisagu.3706:

I could convert 50$ or so into ingame currency and buy the bell.. for an instrument.. which should be available for every player any way.. I’d happily pay 2-4$ for a gemstore purchase of such an item. well.. obviously they don’t want my money if I’m not willing to gamble with it.

there are so many strange decisions by ANet, I really don’t get it. don’t they want to earn money? It seems they only really profit from collectors and gamblers, are they really such a large part of the playerbase? I’d have assumed there are way more casual gamers who would pay a few bucks for something they like but won’t put in 50$ and gamble with it, with a very real possibility of losing it without anything to show for it. Isn’t the whole point about microtransactions that the amount is so small nobody really cares?

To my knowledge a very large part of the community in Guild Wars 1 (that I ran with and knew) were HUGE collectors. To the point where one of my friends had every bow in the game (not just skins for one type of bow but for all four types). He had 3 accounts and I could not being to think of how many mules (characters solely for the purpose of storing items) he had. I am, somewhat, of a collector myself. I usually keep armor (my very first character from Guild Wars 1 still has his starter armor from pre searing for around 6+ years strong :P) and collect the different skins just to wear them from time to time. I also had quite the collection of mini’s.

Yet in Guild Wars 2 I find myself put off from mini’s for now. Only due to how they decided to implement them this time around.

I believe the Guild Wars 1 community will stick around for a while with RNG gamble fest, but not forever. Just like I have come to not wanting to give them money to gamble at a chance for something that should be offered for skill instead of luck.

Turin.1024:

You guys keep throwing percentages around but its entirely possible that the delivery method could be something else, for example it could be: every X minutes the next person to open a gift recieves a bell.

I’ve seen other games use this instead of fixed percentage to ensure the rarity of an item.

I had not thought about that. I have heard of most people getting their bell after 2k+ gifts (giant at the time I was trying). If that is the way it works I think I am more appalled at that then RNG. Reminds me of those horrible radio stations, “The 20th caller is the next to WIN!”

seandkiller.8471:

I haven’t read through the entire thread, just the OP, but is the OP really quitting and calling GW2 RNG based because of an item that (I assume) gives no one any kind of advantage?

It is not due to the item, it is due to the ever increasing amount of RNG in the game. The game launched with some RNG for rare items, but with each monthly event they have introduced more rare items on even worse RNG. It feels like they are probing the community to see how far they can push the RNG until we break.

Example: Halloween mini’s could be bought as a bundle of 3 together then forged into a rarer one. There was no RNG for this, but for the rare everlasting weapon skins there was a horrible RNG (until some of the recipes were found which I think was a bow, and one other skin).

Fast forward to wintersday: They have some okay skins for sale for some ugly socks/hats/sweater, but the good skins are available in the gem store. Awesome, although… the minis are now on a horrible RNG like the weapons skins were for Halloween. One might think this is not so bad, they just swapped weapons with mini’s…. until you realize to get all of the holiday minis in this instant you need to open boxes until you get 3 different holiday mini’s + 4 extra just to get the rarer one from the forge. They increased the RNG required to attain what most mini collectors want. I can’t help but feel for any mini collector out there this holiday season.

I am not talking about the frames you get from Tixx, those I approve of and understand. They did a great job with centaur, doll, solider, griffon, and golem mini’s and the way they are handled. I understand why we can only craft 2. They need a push for us to buy the other 3 (I am fine with that).

mjhungness.8059:

I’m sorry, OP, and please don’t take this wrong. You make a valid point about the RNG and possibly never getting a good roll, even after spending so much. But I look at the picture you posted and I just see a kid on Christmas morning, decked out in great jammies, staring incredulously at a mountain of ripped boxes and wrapping paper, wondering why he didn’t get the pony he was asking for. Again, I apologize, I’m not trying to trivialize your valid complaint, but I guess, growing up poor, my mindset is that sometimes you just don’t get what you want, regardless of how much effort you put into it.

No offense taken my friend. As it turns out I am not actually all that rich (in game or out), but I was always taught hard work pays off (in real life anyway). Now, when they started to market Guild Wars 2 I was a little worried about how the game would turn out. After 6+ years of Guild Wars 1 I saw the potential of Guild Wars 2, but I also saw that the game would be nothing like Guild Wars 1.

Then the interviews and quotes started to roll out. Claiming skill based progression and rewards because you did something successful and right not because you happen to get lucky on the 100th try. My personal favorite quote was the one about dungeons, “Every time you run a dungeon, you are going to get something you can use.”

Now that quote sounds amazing and I blame myself for actually thinking I was going to get something I could really use every run. The truth is, I wear exotics and I get blues and greens 95% of the time in dungeons. They are not usable unless I want to downgrade. I will give them that they didn’t say it would be better; just usable.

The post is more so about the amount of RNG in this game than me not getting the bell. The bell just services as a good example of what they said there wouldn’t a lot of. Most of the rare items in game are RNG dependent to get, but as I have stated there are some rare things that are RNG independent.

Wasabee.5031:

ANet would make more money and having less complains if they introduce another currency besides Gem and Gold.

Gem and Gold can be traded as they are right now. Introducing Diamond currency which can be purchased by real money only (unable to trade by Gem or Gold) then selling rare, unique item skins (legendary precursor, unbreakable bell, rare endless tonic, rare weapons/armors skins)

People who loves gambling can still trade Gem from Gold to play.

People like me that do not like RNG can purchase directly from TP using cash for Diamond to obtain the items.

Introducing Diamond currency will get money directly to ANet and not through 3rd party gold seller (buy gold in black market, convert to gems) which will not benefit ANet.

I think that is a very bad idea, but this is my opinion. Doing this would only further serve to make it more confusing to start the game. The game already has three types of currency in it.

Also, putting the precursor weapons in the Gem store (or Diamond store in your version) would cause such a backlash I could not even being to describe the fury of some. Being able to buy one of the rarest things in game (which as I have said before needs to be on RNG) would bring that item to mean nothing. It would lose any type of meaning.

To those that will comment back at this and aim it to the others saying they should add the bell to the gem store, THE BELL IS NOT A PRECURSOR LEGENDARY ITEM. It is obvious it is not that rare considering that at any point in time during this Wintersday there are 40+ available with more coming each hour.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Another whiny thread from someone who doesn’t understand what the words “random” and “rare” mean?

And don’t even try the “there was no RNG like this in GW1” lies. Go ahead and name one everlasting tonic that isn’t acquired via RNG.

You are either bad at reading comprehension or just missed the second point that has been posted throughout this thread many a time. The question was not only why is the bell on a RNG, but also why is there so many RNG items in Guild Wars 2 to being with. In a game pushed as skill based there are very few things in game that require skill to get.

The reason I posted about the bell is due to the fact they have a entire mini game based around it, yet the unbreakable version of what you use in that mini game is not a reward for being skilled at it…. how does that make any sense? Instead I am forced to grind out gifts of some time at a chance for it. How is that skillful? How does that show anything. It just shows I am willing to smack my head against a wall until it falls down. The game has great potential to be a game of skill based progression, but with each update and new content release the RNG makes another appearance in a more pronounced manner.

I will give anet the props they deserve for fixing ascended rings. They made a great change to the way they are acquired. You can either show skill by running fractals at least 10 times at the minimum level of 10 to insure you get one ring or you get lucky inside of those 10 runs (I might add extremely lucky).

You have oblivious forgotten about the fact that some of the rarest items in Guild Wars 1 (for a time) were the Tormented weapons. These weapons where not on a RNG. This is the type of items I expected in Guild Wars 2. Something you can work towards while actually playing content.

Also, I never said Guild Wars 1 had 0 RNG throughout the entire game I said their ARMOR had 0 RNG. Also, note that Oppressor weapons were not on RNG, Destory weapons, Tormented weapons (as stated), Perfect salvage kits, high end consumables, and I could go on but I think you get the point. Not everything rare in Guild Wars 1 was on RNG. There is hardly anything in Guild Wars 2 that is not on RNG and rare.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The small, medium, large, giant, and personalized gift boxes all have an equal chance of dropping the endless tonic and the unbreakable bell. In fact, all of the boxes (excluding MTX) drop very similar things at very similar rates. The only reason there are different ones is largely related to crafting, so that lower level players can find and craft level-appropriate stuff from recipes and components.

The drop rate is far too low, you know it ~ I know it ~ Everyone knows it. And it just isn’t with items like this, its the entire RNG process that is killing the game. I’m sorry, but the OP is 100% correct. I’ve now knocked up over 1000 hours since beta, I’ve enjoyed pretty much most areas of the game, but I’m sorry the heavy RNG emphasis is what is pushing players away, and for me ~ This is most likely one of the reasons I’ll most likely quit soon as well.

Sure, the fanboys are scream entitlement, but lets face it~ They are more or less kids who haven’t experienced much in life, I doubt they have even played an MMo that actually requires you to work for your character, this is probably why hacking is such a huge problem in todays MMo industry.

Just some friendly advice, start considering alternative methods for acquiring items such as Endless Tonics//Elusive items etc etc, because quite frankly I don’t see how much longer you guys can keep pushing the RNG down peoples throats before more people start quitting.

The more I think about the RNG the more I come to understand why so many people like it (I AM IN NO WAY SAYING I LIKE IT). Instead of having skill or take the time to develop it all they have to do is be lucky.

Another way to look at it is this:

The jumping puzzles in this game are honestly not that difficult for me (I am not bragging just being honest). I have done them all with relative easy. Sure, I might have failed 9-15 times on the Halloween one, but the others I usually got first go. However, I have a couple of people on my friends list who for the life of them can not do jumping puzzles.

If a game had nothing but skilled based items a good majority of people would be cut off from the game. They would quit because they would feel the lack of skill they have in their possession. Where as in a RNG system there is nothing to feel ashamed about if you can’t get a item. You can’t change your luck (avoiding the physiologic affects of thinking positive).

I will just leave it at that… just a thought. Don’t mean to keep the thread up so long.

Jhereg.6412:

Oh and why is RNG suddenly this terrible thing? Just about every game uses it. It is there to make the game more interesting.

That is the problem though, it doesn’t make the game more interesting for a lot of people. It detracts from the game instead of adding. There is no allure to me at having a random chance at awesome. I would rather earn awesome then pay my way at a chance for it.

Guardian Of Tyria.6397:

The majority of people in the game don’t want it to be skill based, that was evident after the Mad King jumping puzzle after everyone was crying “It’s too hard!”. The jumping puzzle this time is a joke compared to that one.

If they made the unbreakable bell a reward for having perfect scores at the bell game you would hear people yelling about the game being too hard.

Any cosmetic reward in the PvE area, that is linked to true skill, will eventually get watered down until a majority of the player base is satisfied; at least RNG is fair across the board and is easier to water down than to try and alter skill level requirements for obtaining an item that is only cosmetic.

That I will agree on. So many people cried fowl on a skill based challenge. It made me sad to see so many people angry at something that was finally somewhat challenging.

Jhereg.6412:

Should be doing homework, but plotted the Probability of Looting given you opened N boxes instead.

Thank you. Best of luck on your homework. =)
It is still not a normal distribution, but thank you anyway.

FuriousPop.2789:

Like i said, you can open 10,000 or 100,000 – it doesn’t matter if u open 1,000,000 – chance is still chance…. no probability comes into play here.

You have to remove logic from this equation which your coming back to by stating “probability”.

I will look into that. It doesn’t make sense to me that that probability can not come into play. I am not very savvy with computer programming ( I know how to code in python/matlab/etc and such for math, but not very big on C++).

As to the question, I would still like to know why the bell wasn’t a skill based reward.