…boy I never ever thought they would be THAT wrong! I never gave the much attention in the first place tough. Oh yea – and HI!
Lately I’ve beed doing calculations about the engi (wich I’m gonna release here and maybe on reddit too, once I’m done) and so for the best results I’ve tried to get the actual cast time for each relevant dps-skill the engi has. It was astonishing how terrible wrong the tooltips are … so I just want to share them with you:
Name of the Skill | Tool Tip | Real Casttime
Hammer
Positive Strike, Negative Bash, Equalizing Blow | 1.5s | 2.75s
Electro-whirl | 1s | 1.25s
Rocket Charge | 1.75s | 2.25s
Shock Shield | 1.75s | correct
Thunderclap | 0.75s | 1.25s
Rifle
Hip Shot | 0.75s | 0.84s
Blunderbuss | 0.5s | 0.84s
Overcharged Shot | 0s | correct (+knockback)
Jump Shot | 1s | 1.5s
Pistol
Fragmentation Shot | 0.5s | 0.84s
Poison Dart Volley | 1.75s | 2.25s
Static Shot | 0s | 0.5s
Blowtorch | 0.5s | 0.84s
Grenade Kit
Grenade | 0.5s | 1s
Shrapnel Grenade | 0.5s | 1s
Flash Grenade | 0.5s | 1s
Freeze Grenade | 0.5s | 1s
Poison Grenade | 0.5s | 1s
Grenade Barrage | 0.5s | 1s
Bomb Kit
Bomb | 0.5s | 0.84s
Fire Bomb | 0.5s | 0.84s
Concussion Bomb | 0.5s | 0.84s
Bog Ol’ Bomb | 0.5s | 0.84s
Flame Thrower
Flame Jet | 2.25s | 2.5s
Flame Blast | 0.5s | correct
Air Blast | 0.5s | correct
Napalm | 0s | 0.75-1s (not sure here)
Incendiary Ammo | 0s | correct
Elixier Gun
Tranquilizer Dart | 0.75s | 0.84s
Glob Shot | 0.75s | 0.84s
Fumigate | 2.25s | 2.5s
Acid Bomb | 0.25s | correct (+jump)
Tool Kit
Smack, Whack, Thwack | 2s | 3.25s
Box of Nails | 0.75s | 1.25s
Pry Bar | 0.5s | 1s
Throw Wrench | 0.5s | 1s
Throw Mine | 0.5s | 1s
Mine Field| 1s | 1.25s
Mortar Kit
Mortar Shot | 0.5s | 0.8s
Poison Gas Shell | 0.5s | 0.8s
Endothermic Shell | 0.5s | 0.8s
Flash Shell | 0.5s | 0.8s
Orbital Strike | 0.75 | 1.5s
Out of all those skills, only 6 appear to have correct tooltips. I know about aftercast and all that stuff, but seriously, some numbers are WAY off. Why can’t you give us just the exact correct numbers in the tooltip, including aftercast? I mean those tooltips are worth nothing like this.
If anyone finds something greatly off, please tell me immediately. I’m just a human aswell and I may have made a mistake or two.
Thanks for reading!
Greez!
- Ziggs Ironeye
(edited by Xyonon.3987)
@Molch thank you very much for this information! This is something very important and I’m glad I learned it from you today!
Have a nice day and thank you for sharing!
Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc
Yea it won’t really matter that much either way, I agree
I’ll test it some day with regen.
Yes, but i have no videos of it. But it’s rather simple. Get some food with 14% or 20% boon duration, get some damage, and count the reg heal in your combat log. Don’t foget that most boonduration food also gives healing power.
Best proof, regen, didn’t think about that one. Thx!
You can shift around a bit for utility, like the 5% dmg above 90% hp aren’t really that big deal, if it helps to aim better and hit more nades it makes sense to take bigger nade aoe and acceleration. Or you can use the scrapper traits in the condi build for power aswell for more sustain.
If you got qustions, just ask
Greez!
- Ziggy
Hmm… I don’t really like the concentration sigil. It works only 70% of the duration witch might mess up the rotation a bit, especially the one with CS. It would still be possible tough, but for my taste it’s a bit too “happy world” oriented. Not so easy content or when you have to tank, wich might force you to stay longer than 10 sec on your shield or whatever will drasticly reduce the efficiency of this sigil. I wouldn’t blame anyone for using it tough, it’s good, but just not my style. You also shouldn’t ignore the fact that you’ll miss a dmg oriented sigil with it.
I like the 2nd option much more, even tough those sharpening stones are ridiculously expensive. I’ll probably just stay with my leadership equip.
skill facts round up. actual duration, on the other hand…
^this.
I honestly do not know if it just says ,25 or if it really is ,25. It might aswell be just a tooltip thing, I didn’t do any testings on that so far. I mean there are attacks that have strange numbers like 0.84 is a common one and for conditions even small numbers count aswell, why would it be different for boons? Since quickness stacks 9 times it’s hard to tell how it works, so I’ll simply get my 100% duration. We could test it with another boon like reta or aegis tough… ;3
Anyhow – thx for sharing! I really appreciate it! ^.^
Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc
(edited by Xyonon.3987)
Heyhey!
Engi can do nearly everything kitten well! If you want to play engi for the whole raid, you should get yourself a condi aswell a power equip. But I can only say, it’s totally worth it!
Against VG
…Condi engis are great, since condi is required there but the engi also offers valuable cc with FT push, bomb knockback and mortar slow, awesome mobility with super speed wich also allows your team to reencounter faster and not miss any green fields. This btw heals other condi engis for up to 3k HP. The engi is also able to grant protection to the green field team, wich is great since there is normally no revenant in that team.
If played right you can help your team in so many different ways, you even got water fields and blasts to help your druid out in dangerious situations, even tough, this isn’t your main job. There is also function gyro for quick resses.
If there are already 3 condi professions at VG, fear not to play power engi. VG has only 2000 armor and power engi deals a lot more damage to VG itself than any condi profession, you’ll see serval crits between 20-40k. You will also be using FT and mortar for CC, and if required you can also go to the green field team. Yet it is wiser to use you as a backup rather than wasting your massive dps on being ranged – it’s the condis job who’s only purpose are the red add. You can even try swapping out the EG for Blast Gyro, for additional mobility, heal and cc. It lowers your dps, but VG isn’t a dps race anyway. You can also sent this gyro to other adds who need help, the red add where other engis are will even heal them. Make sure to explode it manualy so it won’t accidently fly past a seeker and explode there, knocking the seeker into your team. The blast gyro can also be used to helpt the green team reengage, by sending it to a nearby seeker and explode it for a super speed field. This tactic will require you to use scrapper 312, instead of max dps 333. Yet it may help you survive VG and go for a kill rather than an unfortunate 2nd try. Saved probably more time than it took longer to kill VG with some more dps from EG. :P Also it’s fun ^.^
Against Gorsy
…engis are very important due slick shoes and the 4500 break bar of gorsy (45 sec stun required). Slick shoes count as a 2 sec stun per oil field, wich gets up to 3200 break bar dmg. You can also use gyro or HT cc (i recommend gyro since ht lost some of its love due being unable to be blast with all the fields around -> less heal, and gyro has an awesome toolbelt ability) and FT knockback for the breakbar. If done right, revs don’t have to use staff for cc wich gives them a huge dps boost. Blinding adds as already mentioned is a good idea, yet not always required. Better safe than sorry eh?
I recommend to play a power engi against gorsy. It is true that gorsy has high armor (2600), wich basicly favors the condi engi, but the lack of a kit for slick shoes hurts the condi engi way more than the power engis loss of the EG. In the end, power engi will have more dps than condi against gorsy, but only a little bit more. If you only have a condi gear, it’s still totally fine to play a condi engi there. If there are two engis in that team, the power engi should take slick shoes and lower his dps a tiny bit, while condi engi should totally focus on dps.
Against Sabetha
… the engi can save a lot of lives again. He can blind thugs wich may kick maties into sabbys FT, wich will lead into instadeath and most likely confusion followed by a wipe. Just blind the thugs… Then you can use your FT push to push dangerious adds to the cleave zone of your team. This will save the mesmers 2nd weapon, wich would normaly force him to use focus to pull the adds, but if the engi helps out, mesmer can use a sword offhand wich greatly increases his and therefore the pt dps.
Against sabbys medium armor (2200), I also recommend a power engi over a condi one. There are serval reasons for this. EG 4, gives you an easy jump to get behind dangerious adds wich easily can be pushed with FT afterwards. Blind fields of mortar will last longer, even tough condi engi will have 2 blind fields (mortar and bomb). Power engi will also not waste damage on the champs when they die while still having tons of conditions on them. The adds and espeically the flame turretes of the 3rd champ are being dealt with easier too with a power engi. And in the end it’s a good choice to swap the ranged profession (druid) with engi, so the druid can heal his allies in at sabby due more inc damage, while the engi can sustain a moderate ranged dps. Power engi has slightly better ranged dps than condi engi too. Engi has also good selfsustained heal and block and mobility – he will survive the no druid heal ranged combat against sabby.
I hope it wasn’t tooo much wall’o’text and it was informative If you got questions, go ahead!
Greez!
- Ziggy
Turrets need a bigger rework than just some range changes etc. They should be reactive and work with ammo function. Why should we suppoert the AI-profession even further? I want turrets to be a point where they stand, but I have to tell them when to attack what. The CD of them are like selfcharging mantras, so called ammo system.
“My rifle turret has 10 bullets with 1 sec CD? SPAM SPAM, empty? well lets hide at the thumper then until it’s reloaded a bit. Maybe use the flame turrets 2 s smoke field when it attacks to stealth myself. Or I use my long range rocket turret to help me out. Glad the time of AI is over, and I AM the one who’s playing with the turrets, not the turrets with me.”
Greez
- Ziggy
Shield offers nothing over hammer. The question should be “what does shield offer over pistol”. It’s more defensive and rarely used, only for exceptions.
I agree that the shield requires some major buffs. The cd are too long, block, reflect and utility in general too low. I mean look what they did to the guard shield, it was terrible, after the minor buffs it became awesome! That’s the QoL changes I want for engi shield too. To make it a good weapon, even for power. Sure pistol mainhand offers no damage, but at least it got a blind. Maybe pistol 2 should get some love too … aim … heh.
Greez!
- Ziggy
Hey scoots, I’m Ziggy (Engi) or Madame Le Blanc (Mesmer).
In the past few weeks I’ve been working on a reality rotation dps spreadsheet including Alacrity, Quickness and an average Grace of the Land uptime with a 4/9 chance to optain. I’ve been working nearly 40 hours just for the engineer. I’m going to release it this week.
Therefore I tested EVERYTHING and threw like 100 nade autos at each boss to find their armor. Apparently the armor matches with the current base armor of enemies with the light, medium and heavy classes.
TL;DR:
Vale Guardian – 2000 armor
Gorseval – 2600 armor
Sabetha – 2200 armor
You’re welcome If you might be interested in some other stuff, let me know, maybe I already made the calculations about it.
Greez!
- Ziggy / Madame Le Blanc
I made mistake with sharpshooter, somehow I had an 1s icd in my calculations, so I calculated it seperatly. Here the correct numbers:
Tooltip stats (heavy armor target):
ø Grenade damage full buffed
power: 2797
condi: 3718
cast time: 1.00s
total damage: 6515
damage per sec of invested time: 6515
ø Poison Gas Shell damage full buffed
power: 2125
condi: 6527
cast time: 0.80s
total damage: 8652
damage per sec of invested time: 10815
And against VG:
ø Grenade damage full buffed
power: 3635
condi: 3718
cast time: 1.00s
total damage: 7353
damage per sec of invested time: 7353
ø Poison Gas Shell damage full buffed
power: 2761
condi: 6527
cast time: 0.80s
total damage: 9288
damage per sec of invested time: 11610
Sry for the wrong numbers before! But now everything is 100% correct! Yet the result is still the same: Poison Gas Shell > Grenade.
In a few days I’m going to release a full dps spreadsheet with ingame rotations and values in the real situation. DpS for Power and Condi Engi against all bosses, melee and ranged and including quickness and alacrity (thx god I’m also main mes xD) aswell actions like blinding, chilling, immobilizing, pushing, ccing etc. I worked the last 40h in the last 2 weeks at this excel spreadsheet and I’m so happy to share the results!
Greez
- Ziggy!
My condi damage INCLUDES shrapnel aswell the 15% chance for mortar and the 45% chance for nade. There’s no way to say nades are better, sry. Simple math like this can’t be “argued away”.
Did you include both banners, assassin’s presence, fury, might, empower allies, 25 vuln as well as 39.9% crit chance + 10% against bleeding foes. Sharpshooter also is a 33% chance to inflict a 3sec bleed.
Is any time lost when you swap in and out of the kit?
41% crit chance +10% against bleeding etc etc blabla buffs -> 79.1% total crit chance, yes everything included.
And no, no time gets lost while swapping kits, since you can swap kits while casting. For example throw grenade, while it’s casting you can already swap to mortar and give the poison shell command, while that is being casted, you can swap back to nade and continue.
Greez
- Ziggy!
(edited by Xyonon.3987)
Scrapper / Hammer engi is great and a better option in raids than the condi engi against everything but the red adds of VG. For a passionate engineer a power equip next to the condi is a must have. Power engi is awesome, trust me. If you got questions, just ask.
Greez
- Ziggy
And today I crafted: one condi shield please! I wanna do that too sooner or later looks like fun!
(edited by Xyonon.3987)
New meta will be like: TW TW TW TW TW TW
Heh – no, tbh, this would be stupid :P
Ignore the jelly ones It’s still an impressive work you did there. I like the vid (and also the first song cough was a good anime :P).
It’s great to see those “metabreakers” are still out there. Shield offhand? I loved it! I like it when peps get to the point where the normal stuff just doesn’t work anymore and you have to find new solutions.
Gj mate, keep it going! Engi-Masterrace FTW! :’D
Did you try a power build too btw? I expect it to be stronger in that situation.
Greez
- Ziggy
(edited by Xyonon.3987)
Depends on situation. Against every boss in raids, the Gyro is better than the HT. There is no need for condi cleanse and you are unable to blast the HT in that pool of mesmer wells anyway (unless you move away and deal no damage for a few sec).
Ofc there are places for HT to be, mostly fractals. Yet isn’t that exactly what we wanted? A heal skill with the same strength as HT? Finally we have it.
“wall’o’text”
I don’t think he ever used Poison Shell…
I think war does a bit more steady damage, and engi is better for groups which struggle with the green circle task, especially with a poor lead that results in circle spawns repeatedly in the lit section. I’ve seen really good engi play and honestly, I don’t believe that condi berserker is the best choice here – just easier to push a bit more dps for an average group.
My toughts exactly. Warrior reaches his limits pretty fast, wich makes him easier to be played “good enough”. As for condi engi, there is always room to become better, wich imo gives you a much better gameplay expirience and fun.
(edited by Xyonon.3987)
Btw Xyonon, any advice as ‘engie seeker duty’ on how to push 2 (or even 3, if they are stacked closely) seekers all the way back with 1 skill?
My problem often is that, because they are not close to each other, if you stand between them, just a little back (towards pillar with boss), that if you use Bomb F (toolbelt skill) huge knockback, or flamethrower knockbac, that sometimes, instead of going to the middle of the room, they do sideways, wich means they almost didnt get knocked ‘away’. how do you prevent a mess like this? I mean if you ask me push ‘1 seeker away, that is your duty’, easy as cake, but i’m very often finding myself responsible for all 3 (cause nobody else using CC skill). A well timed big old bomb does wonders, however, badly times (or interfered with chill, immobalize at wrong time etc), can bring huge mess (even as bad as knocking them towards the melee team).
Secondly, what do you do as engie, if you start taking huge damage, and your healing is already on cd? i try to use water field + flamethrower blast finishter but sometimes it doesnt work. Is the druid then responsible for you? Cause some ppl say ‘druid only focussed melee, if ranged get damaged, they have to ’solve it themselve’.
I think i might delay on the warrior viper armor. A nerf like you think will happen, might actually happen. Secondly apart from that build, warrior is still boring to me (just don’t like the class). Engie i love a lot, and i have plans to make ‘H.o.p.E’ legendary, and a new hammer if it comes out (dont like juggernaut). I will try to maximize engie dps first, see how it goes.
Well does it matter where they are knocked back to? I mean in the first phase you only have to knock back the close one once and keep him slowed, or twice and slow the far two seekers, after that they despawn, repeat.
Normally ofc you have at least 3 engis and each of them will slow and cc one of the seekers. In our guild we always use mortar slow right away on all 3 of them, then each of the engis says “push” before they do so with FT for the close one, so no push gets wasted. All our pushes (FT and bomb) are “away from you”, wich means you can’t really push enemies in the same direction unless they are stacked perfectly. But that’s no problem imo, at least not in that situation.
About the healing, I use gyro since HT is a waste against VG imo. You’ve got better heal for yourself, even better for all the engis there are and the protection allows you to take almost no damage from greens and VG in breakbar phase. Mortar 5, toolbelt and FT 2 also help. Also will scrapper allow you to heal by swiftness and superspeed, mainly the second thing I’ll show you ingame how I do this if you’re on.
greez
- Ziggy
Since when was mortar AA and healing/CCing mutually exclusive? When I ran on engi, I did both…
Pop healing turret, knockback if needed, then spam mortar until in range of grenades. Even if you only get 1 cast of AA off, it’s better than just running around without doing anything.
Ofc you do use mortar aa over nothing in a “out of range” time. Yet this time is also the best to just use mortar slows and pistol 5’s to cc seekers aswell to heal yourself, since in this time you’ll lose the least dps. Better than to have to do so when you are in melee and could deal loads of dmg But overall, yea sure, I totally agree with you!
greez
- Ziggy
Is there anything more satisfying than a HUGE hammer, visible legendary HOPEs and a FT aa / fumigate twice as big as on other races? CHARR IT IS GOD kitten IT!
Mortar AA? Never used it, sorry. I use my time out of range of boss more productive, with seeker cc, helping healing up etc.
That being said… as a poor soul that has to pug raids… Id rather have a bad condi bers than a bad condi engi. At least condi bers usually cant knock seekers into melees and gets at least a decent 6k dps on boss.
Couldn’t agree more. Mortar aa are poor 2.7k dps, yet mortar 2 deals a decent 9k dmg, better than nothing i’d say :P Anyway, that’s exactly what you should do – “be more productive with seeker cc and heal / mobility / protection”. About your 2nd statement: So kitteng true <3
As for the whole Condi Engi vs Condi Berserker debate, I just find it sad that the hardest class to play in pve does less dps in most realistic raid scenarios than one of the easiest classes to play(which also has the highest survivability to boot). That said, players new to VG will probably still want more condi engis as it makes life easier for the green team. However, once VG is on farm, condi wars will probably become more useful due to the higher dps output.
It’s a matter of time until ANet changes that F1 to be a single fire field instead of many little ones. That’s the gamebreaking mechanic the condi war can abuse and I’d be surprised if it wouldn’t change with the next balance patch.
Welcome back, now we have to wait another 2 years until we have legendary animations thehe :P
And yea, they’re gone – for good
The normal full buffed condi engi achieved 18k dps withtout quickness and alacrity, second will affect the dps greatly and I expect to get up to ±22k with a decent uptime. But I’ll let you know when I’ve done these calculations :P
Against VG this is a lot worse ofc, but the engi dps is quite good since the big skills cd match with the green fields. Just save your nades for those green fields and you’re fine. In the end, the engi has more to do than just dmg, wich means pushing, slowing and rooting the seekers aswell protect allies from dmg and grant super speed. I’d say in reality you’re pretty close with ~15k dps on condi engi against VG.
About the warrior, sadly I don’t play one myself (yet) and I’m not 100% sure how much damage they do against VG. That’s why I can’t help you out there :/
Yea that’s what condis weakspot is imo. Those are the full buffed condi engi skills with their damage. They are ordered by dps according to their cast time. This means, Static Shot for example is stronger than Poison Dart Volley due the short cast time.
20k+ dps
Incendiary Ammo 25’000
Napalm 40’000
Blowtorch 34’000
Fire Bomb 22’000
Shrapnel Grenade 21’000
15-20k dps
Poison Grenade 16’000
Static Shot 4’000
10-15k dps
Grenade Barrage 15’000
Concussion Bomb 10’500
5-10k dps
Bog Ol’ Bomb 8’000
Poison Gas Shell 7’000
Poison Dart Volley 17’500
Freeze Grenade 6’500
Flame Blast 6’000
Air Blast 3’000
Grenade 5’000
Bomb 5’000
0-5k dps
Flame Jet 9’000
Fragmentation Shot 3’000
Flash Grenade 3’500
Mortar Shot 2’500
Orbital Strike 4’000
Endothermic Shell 2’000
Flash Shell 2’000
others
Superior Sigil of Geomancy 14’000
Sharpshooter 1’500
Incendiary Powder 4’000
If you got questions, go ahead!
what about PvE? how does a zerk hammer scrapper compare to a condi p/p?
They are pretty even – I’m on to some calculations about condi and power against the raid bosses. I’m not completly done yet, but I can give you my results. Those are max dps builds with food and buffs etc, yet without alacrity and quickness and not taken into account to swap out a kit for slick shoes!!! This will be the next step tough. So don’t take it too precise yet. All I want to say here is they are even.
Here you go:
Power Engi
versus Vale Guardian -> Dps 19396
versus Gorseval the Multifarious -> Dps 15341
versus Sabetha the Saboteur -> Dps 17798
Condi Engi
versus Vale Guardian -> Dps 17799
versus Gorseval the Multifarious -> Dps 16960
versus Sabetha the Saboteur -> Dps 17468
If you got questions, let me know.