Guild Wars 2

Maybe OP prefers that we steal Moa Morph :P?It’s appropriate…

OK i have used it….aaand it’s not worth it.First because it procs from Fear and Daze.I want it to protect me from 100b,BS ,PW and similar bursts,not from a casual Daze from a thief sword for example.Anyway.The other problem is that you stay stunned or knockdowned e.t.c when it procs.Thats to say the least “not well thought”.The third problem is that it Shadowsteps you very random.Lets say you are knocked down from an Ele and he sets a powerful AoE(don’t know the name,kill me but i only play thief),so the trait shadowsteps you away…..again somewhere in the AoE circle.Funny ain’t it?

Yes,there is at least two threads,one of them made by me.This trait is terrible,it’s harmful it’s stupid.If ANet wants to put something useful,they can replace it with Black Powder(Pistol Skill #5).If they don’t wanna,i will be happy if they replace it with some /emote at 25% hp,like :“Oh kitten,i am gonna die”….

The big difference is that you need to farm the top gear for WvW in order to be somebody.If you don’t have ,you are at the bottom of the WvW food chain.And this is exactly the catch,because for WvW you must be certain in advance of what build you want.Either you buy crit/dmg or condition e.t.c.The builds itself aren’t too different between WvW and SPvP.Maybe Signet of Shadows is a must for WvW.

First,you must decide whether you want PvP or WvW.
WvW is what i call “PvP for PvErs”.It’s basicly mindless zerg and gearcheck fiesta.Also is a test how fast your PC is.If you have powerful PC you will deal better with the rendering problems.
SPvP is battleground-type PvP with several maps.The gear is equal for everyone,so what only matters is the skill.It’s great for noobs because you can always hot join an leave at will.Also there is many other noobs to gank.
TPvP is the same,but with Teams and it’s more experience demanded.Consider it the next step.
Paid TPvP are the last step.

eXs.6210:

good players don’t stay in stealth long, they use stealth to set up their burst and that takes like a fraction of a second…

LoL!!! Just lol!!!
Many good players stay as long as possible in stealth.Also many good players are not burst builded.You presume too much…

I am not sure if you understand what you are asking…
The normal way of combining C&D+Steal+BS is you hit C&D and while it’s animation is going you hit fast Steal(traited with Mug).This Stealths you and position it near the target.Next you hit BS and voila.
Now from what i can get from your question is can you first go in stealth and then Steal+BS.The answer is yes,if you do not trait Mug,and if you disable auto-attack so you can manualy hit BS to be able to position behind the target!

Yes you can but if you don’t have Mug.
Also it will BS right after you Steal,so you cannot position yourself from behind.That is if you have auto-attack on.

Tulisin.6945:

ZLE.8293:

I think,that you are the first and only S/D player,who prefers C&D to be nerfed instead of Mug….

This is mostly because Mug is pretty much only awesome when paired with a huge damage opener like the oft-discussed C&D->Steal->Backstab ambush, whereas C&D is vital to a ton of thief builds and tactics. Trying to nerf the backstab opener by nerfing C&D is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I kinda knew that,i was merely trying to hint the dude,to reconsider his opinion :P

I think,that you are the first and only S/D player,who prefers C&D to be nerfed instead of Mug….

rmBossa.4621:

This spec during its prime helped give rise to this now uber-villian “perma stealth thief” who is never seen but must be there lurking in the shadows because, y’know, you read about it on the forums…

-I see stealthed people(or don’t to be precise).Walking around like regular people.They don’t see each other.They only see,what they wanna see.They don’t know,they are stealthed.
-How often do you see them?
-Never.But i read about them in the forums ALL THE TIME.

Panacea.4927:

Because it is such a wise idea to run away with 30% hp without any protection, letting channeled skills hit you or some big spikes to finish you off because a trait limited the way on how you can play.
Getting active in stealth is much better as you can choose a direction to flee at without the enemy knowing. With last refuge the enemy will know the direction you run at and if they use some channeled skills, they will hit you even when last regue kicks in.

^This.When i am in control of my stealths,i don’t die(or at least i die when i was outplayed).When Shadow refuge begins to mess with the equation —->dead thief.
We cannot simply stay and wait when we reach like 40 % to lose 15% more just the stupid trait to decides to proc.

Karolis.4261:

Excuse me is this a thief subforum im at ? Couse when u even close to 20 % hp, u should be hitting the road allready and let the refugee get activated by projectile bleed/poison/burn if u have any on u. Its not the another stealth skill, its “oh kitten” panic button.

This only shows how ignorant you are about the different Thief builds.
Apart from hit&run backstab build,there are some steady stealth based builds,who doesn’t just run away,when things get hairy,but stay close and fight(with good success,from my perspective).Isn’t the run-away part one of the things that many people complain about the thief?Well,some of us don’t run…And this trait alone,this buff is responsible for 80-90% of my deaths.I could give u many example how it kills me(from sudden big attacks while casting C&D,while chanelling Dagger Storm e.t.c)If i could remove it,i would do it right away….

Gungnir Grimm.7123:

I must be the odd man out because it never gets me killed…

You are either very,very good,or you don’t use Dagger Storm for elite….

Penguin.5197:

To me it is a shame they didn’t go this way but invisibility will always be part of this game now and nothing can be done about it.

For me it’s not shame,that they did something different.If i wanted to play GW1,i would
go and play GW1.Also if you find Thief too different than Assassin,i wonder what you will say about Mesmer…Appart from name and the domino they have literally nothing in common

Columba.9730:

Hard to do anything right when we cannot see them, lol.

I checked your post history,and boy-do you love to complain.Your favorite themes:thieves and stealth.I couldn’t even get your class from the 14 pages of whining.
Could you be some kind to clarify what class is your main?Or your main class is QQ master?

Columba.9730:

In gw1 thieves never got perma stealth. Case closed

Nothing is closed.Let me post only 2 of the Assassins defense skills in GW1:
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_Defenses
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Flashing_Blades

Those two skills,combined,provide the assassin with virtual perma-blocking damage.
And those are just a 2 from hundreds of choices…

Penguin.5197:

In my opinion invisibility should have never been ntroduced to guild wars. guild wars 1 had assasins that did not need invisibility. Shadow stepping was enough and the class was balanced. Inbisibility on its own is not uncounterable on its own, but when combined with shadowstepping and high mobility it makes for some op situations.

The comparison between GW Assassin and GW2 Thief is not correct(not to say directly stupid).Here is why:
1.In GW1 Assassin have next to best armor (70,only Warrior have 80).You might argue that here medium armor is next to best,but it’s not near as good as a tool of defense as it was in GW1.
2.In GW all classes have same base HP.Here thief have 8000 less base hp than Warrior for example.
3.In GW1 you can choose from up to ~300 skills,including the secondary profession.Whit 300 skills to choose,it is much more easy to “scramble” a potent build.
Also in GW1 players have access to numerous healing abilitites w/o cooldown.
4.In GW Assassin have access to many invulnerabilites,here we can only dream of them.
5.This leave us with the two Usual Suspects:Stealth and Mobility.Many people wants one of them nerfed.Some people wants both of them nerfed,Or removed….
Meanwhile,while those people are busy whining,the decent players are getting good,the good players are getting much better!

HS is a stupid skill,that was made to this long time ago.
HS mobility is great.It’s damage isn’t. In my opinion it should be changed as following:
100%-25%—> the damage of the present 100%-50% range
25%-0%—>no change.
Also any quickness skills removed from the game,PW damage restored,Dancing Dagger partialy restored,C&D damage restored,Mug damage nerfed instead and voila…

Kurow.6973:

Except the thief isn’t invisible all the time, and neither are they the only class that can stealth.

Warrior has 80% MORE base HP than thief all the time,while also dealing tons of damage,but hey what do i know…

gimmethegepgun.1284:

catnipkiller.5429:

When will anet stop being so blind when it comes to class balance.

That’s a great question.
Why DID they deign to put a rogue class in the game when there has yet to be a single mmo that made them not be OP or worthless?

Because mmorpg contains the word roleplaying ,and there is a lot of people who wants to play a role of a rogue/assassin.As for OP/worthless part,it’s a matter of personal opinion and point of view.Some might find them OP, is’s their right to have an opinion.Then they make one,embarrass themselves for a while and go to their main chars….

No need to fix.PLS just remove it and replace it with something useless but harmless…

P/D Body Shot replaced with something more useful,maybe /flex emote or something.
Last Refuge trait replaced with something less lethal for the thief.

rootnode.9546:

Don’t get me wrong, I love assassin classes. In Gw1 my main was an assassin and I really hoped the thief to be about the same in Gw2.

I mean, the thief is a THIEF and not an assassin. He should use tricks and acrobatics, but the included high DPS is just a joke to balancing.

Let me first say that i completely agree that no CD on weapon swap is a bad idea.
However when you stay that “thief is a thief and not assassin” you are completely wrong.
Thief in GW2 was originally developed as Assassin,and then almost at the end of the developing changed to Thief for purely roleplay reasons:namely Assassins are bound to the continent of Cantha.(There are 3 continents:Tyria,Cantha and Elona.)——>Thus the Thief birth and the hasty-not-so-well-developed Steal skill.Just to justify Thief’s name.Replace Steal skill with Shadowstep(in all it’s glory) and you will get the original idea of ANet.But you still can see the Assassin features in Thief class:Scorpion Wire,Caltrops,Smoke Bomb,Many masks e.t.c.Also Assassin in GW1 had equal burst builds and also the opportunity to choose from hundreds of skills.Also the high DPS is not only thief priority in GW2.Every class can scramble at least 1 bursty build.
Just pointing,that the “thief is not assassin” point is not valid.Peace.

pEEtrs.4320:

1st reason: On-weapon-swap sigils.

2nd reason: Quick pockets.

Do I have to provide more reasons?

I will provide 1 reason from my point of view.I am condition thief.With no swap CD i would equip S/D+P/X and with considerable ini regen which my build posses i will prety much perma-perform the following combo: Infiltrator’s Strike-C&D-Dodge-Swap-Sneak attack-Swap-Rinse and Repeat.ANyone who have played P/D condition thief knows what will be like….

brunohstein.9038:

This post is about PvP or PvE?

I really can’t see how a Death Blossom spam is a threat to anyone in PvP.

When someone is complaining about conditions, 9 out of 10 times is Warrior of the type:
Bulls Charge+Frenzy+For Great Justice(w.t.f is Shake it Off)-I am Turbo-Slash-Destroyer.

In this particular case,OP is Engineer,who have never heard of elixirs,with an alt warrior…

@Marduh i don’t argue that no swap CD will be “very useful”,“great class ability” and “wonderful” as you put it.But it will not be balanced.Asking for unjust Buff is no different than asking for unjust Nerf.Cheers.

frans.8092:

Because it’s so good that is should be a bannable offense if some people have their way. Who would not run something that can apply 25 stacks of bleeding in seconds, doing 8k+ dps per second and if someone happens to bring condition removal (and use it in time, 8k per second leaves them with less then a second to react) simply apply 25 stacks of bleeding again.

8k per second?
Are you out of your mind?A condition thief tick varies somewhere between 105 and 135(roughly depends of how many might stacks and corruption sigil bonus .
25 stacks(which are the max cap) would make 25 dots per second=3370 damage/sec.
I will not even comment that it is impossible to add 25 stacks just from DB,but it is useless cuz since you are claiming this,you don’t know anything about thief anyway and its like to talking to a wall…

Liewec.2896:

i had 13k hp (guardian HP sucks) i took 21k bleeding dmg… and i’m dead, thanks to the magic of 3 3 3 3 3 3…

The other day i had exactly the same /w conversation with some kitteny(and just a little after that angry) Guardian.After i killed him he rage whispered me the following (i quote from memory):
-“It must be a real fun to spam just 333333”?
-“How should i know ,i am dagger-pistol”- i replied….
-“Your class is SOO broken,no wonder it received 14 nerfs in a row”
-“In your case even 14 more won’t change anything”.

Anyways…OP,about your guardian HP sucking: thief and guardian have the same base HP just FYI.

10 sec is fine!
Thief has a problems,but it isn’t this…
It’s far more important to fix the ridiculous Body Shot and Flanking Strike.Also the channeling chasing you trough Stealth.Also the darn Last Refuge.

rootnode.9546:

Seriously? Make thieves more OP?

This is getting old…

I think ANet have a quite clear vision of the thief,and you(and the others) constantly repeating that mantra about OP,will get to their nerves,like it got to ours(thieves),It’s like toy are repeating :ANet,you are incompetent.Also the endless whining is flooding the few reasonable posts,that emerge once in a while.So go on….seal the state of the thief forever,assure no needles nerf will come anymore.

Doomdesire.9365:

Looks like a P/D with some death blossum if you ask me. I hate how this build is becoming more popular. No longer can P/D condition be held a secret. Sooner or later every thief and their mother is going to be running P/D…I like it back when I was of the unique few running it

Hehe. I am one of the “unique few”.Basically it doesn’t bother me that many people are starting to use it .They are terrible.They mostly spam Death Blossom until they run out of initiative…What bothers me more is that the big number of people using it will force the player mass to pay more attention to condition removal skills.

Tulisin.6945:

Cempa.5619:

You say Pistol is broken? Go tell Wild Bill that!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F8FcUCoyBQ

The full list of things that are good about pistol mainhand are as follows:
1. Sneak Attack from stealth.

The full list of thing that Wild Bill uses from pistol mainhand are as follows:
1. Sneak Attack from stealth.

P/D is rather good because P/D pretty much ignores everything Pistol has but what happens when you use auto attack after C&D. Furthermore, this thread was trying to demonstrate that P/P is good, and P/P doesn’t even get organic access to Sneak Attack.

I agree. Body Shot is arguably the most useless Thief weapon skill.Just compare it to the other weapons slot 2 skills. Heartseeker,Cluster Bomb,Infiltrators Strike .What choice do we have,except to rely on Sneak Attack.What else do we have?

Webley.1295:

look at it this way

would you use backstab on a condition thief

well why would you use sneak attack on a crit thief then?

Hehe indeed!I would love BS to add 5 bleeds and to play:Death Blossom+C&D+BS.But we can’t have it all.That is the price we pay for initiative system:
Little to no synergy between weapon skills(even between the skills of the same weapon).

Avigrus.2871:

Thieves are all over WvW now, my guild mates are re-rolling thieves – it’s ridiculous.

What’s disappointing is that there are some players of thieves that can’t look at this subject objectively and admit there is a problem.

If there is a problem,it’s not a thief problem,but gear stat problem.The fact that in WvW some people are terribly undergeared and the fact that in WvW max crit dmg % cap is higher has nothing to do with Backstab.
Also in TPvP where armors are equal and ppl know what they are doing i don’t see many thieves at all.Infact Thief isn’t much wanted.The bunker builds are required there+mesmer for portal.Rest is optional.If you are good spike thief,then OK,but you might as well be good Burst Warrior(you will have 8k more HP).

Omg ,i would rather to be found dead in a ditch,than looking like this creature in the picture you posted.

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

Tell that to the warriors rifle, that thing hits like a truck compared to a lot of melee.

But not compared to a lot of Warriors melee. You see for them(warriors) it’s normal to be able to hit like a truck and to have a full range of weapons.It’s in their mmo history.Likewise Stealth in ours.The difference is that we are not going to their forum to QQ

I could easily see Haste skills reworked to shorten the CD of the skills,used while effect is active .Like the following skill.It was a part from the perma-SF Assassin(now that was OP,i would imagine our whiners would suicide themselves if encounter that):

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Swiftness

This is off course for non-thieves.For us maybe 100% ini recovery

I still recommend,that you change to Executioner.20% damage bonus if the target is <50% is a lot.Also many people tend to panic as their health goes down.They lose focus and start to make mistakes,and exactly at this time you will make noticeably more damage to benefit from those mistakes.Win!

Kabukijo.6053:

Fix perma stealth …fix instant ur dead on port macro … i hear this well lock him down.. or just spam aoe randomly and cover all of the map … or if u played a thief u would know how to kill them … i just fought one for 15 mins ……… pistol pistol .. stealth .. constant perma stealth got so bad he whould let off entire round with out coming outta stealth.

they have no cool downs .. every class in game does hand them out and oh look thief is on equal ground .. no more port port port .. or instant spam 3 abilitys target dead in .00005 secs.. no wait im gonna start one … so just dont touch them so i can enjoy face roll and go cry to someone who cares

oh wait thats not the best part.. as soon as he hit 15 % port port port port port port port port port … heal come back …. and waste more of my time.

off to start a thief ,watch a video .. look at a couple builds and enjoy the rest of my day rinse and repeat 1vX .. and come back here and defend .. how broken it is..

so tired of seeing thiefs and thinking hope he dosent have that build .. in that vid he watched .. so i can fight him while he perma evades .. or perma stealth ..or instant one shots me …

also get rid of finishing in stealth.. it’s kitten .. since oh wait perma stealth

In one single post you managed to complain about thieves(not thiefs),that kill you too fast with Backstab,or too slow with bleeds.What death you would enjoy?A medium long?
Also you complain about Stealth stomp,while actually Black Powder stomp is 100 times better.Also you complain from perma evade.Also you complain from perma port,port(i would presume this must be perma-Infiltrator’s arrow,described trough your zero ingame knowledge).
At the end you threaten to make a thief as well and “enjoy your rest of the day,rince and repeat”…To this i will say : Go on make one.Show us.SPvP is full with such wannabes,that has been told or red about magical OP thief that plays himself alone,who are SO CLUELESS,that actually beside their nameplates ANet has wrote: “Hopeless”

Loading.4503:

ZLE.8293:

Why you use Hidden Killer,since only the first from 5 Sneak Attack shots would crit?It’s not worth it.Try Executioner trait instead.

cause sneak attack is only 5 shots right? unless I mistaken, but all the hits from sneak attacks crit, maybe you have it confused with unload with is a P/P build?

Sadly only the first crit(I mean it’s a 100% crit coming from the trait,the other 4 can always crit due to your high crit chance,but it’s not the same,isn’t it?).You can always test it.

Why you use Hidden Killer,since only the first from 5 Sneak Attack shots would crit?It’s not worth it.Try Executioner trait instead.

Incurafy.6329:

As for Quickness, it’s OP on all classes, not just Thief. It should be changed to 33% like Swiftness and like it was in GW1.

Quickness is IMO not OP,but plain Stupid.They should either remove it ,or just change it to 100% faster CD recovery/Ini recovery!

reikken.4961:

It feels like thief’s damage is balanced around haste, which really sucks for all parties involved

Where did you get this from?In SPvP from 20 thieves,10 are BS,3 are P/D bleed,3 are S/D,3 are P/P and 2 are D/P(at least this is what i observe).And only PW and Unload builds can benefit from Haste.Backstab builds have the optimal UI setup as following:Shadowstep,Assassins Signet,Shadow Refuge,i don’t see place for Haste.
P/D also don’t need it because they do steady damage,not burst.

Fjandi.2516:

ZLE.8293:

GW2—>Owerpowered Condition Thief with perma stealth .

Oh finally a sincere person. Respect.
I love how ppl keep qqing about backstab.

I was sarcastic but anyways,thanks for the respect.

If you are trolling,i give you 1/10…
If you are not,then you have a condition.I work in Pharmacy,so i am curious what medications you use….

Relentliss.2170:

Yeah I feel if Thief is not fixed soon it may have a detrimental effect on WvW, where I’ve seen people log out quite often recently over thieves.

Omg,those thieves will ruin the game,mark my words.People are quiting,just because of them…The game is almost dead.End of the World is coming(6 more days to go,It’s thief fault).

Ansultares.1567:

And that’s when I quit a game.
/facepalm

I checked your posts.You are a PvE Freak.If you got bored,or you failed to compete at the gear-fest,don’t try to find an excuse at something else,like the thief.

Fair enough.For a moment i was afraid that you will be tempted to use Signet of Malice and thus leave yourself w/o condition clear

OK.I will be the first,who dare to leap on a trojan soil…
With somehow limited access to Stealth and no traits for more dodging aren’t you too squishy?Is Black Powder enough?I can see this work great in a big fights, when enemy is occupied with someone else,but when they focus you and/or 1v1 fights?….What are your UI skills?

Rustypipes.6238:

One thing is for certain, a lot of people do not know the plural for thief.

Oh,believe me,they do.It’s “ThieFS are OP.Nerf”