Guild Wars 2

Not triggering revealed is maybe hard to do.I mean everything else trigger it,and all of a sudden one trait doesn’t.I am not a programmer,but i imagine it difficult one thing to brake the laws of nature that everything else obey(sort of speak).

Stiv.1820:

It sucks because the only way to avoid it is to simply stop fighting when you get to ~30% and let it happen and that’s really hard to do.

Many times you(we) go directly from 50-60% to 25% either from Eviscerate,or sudden pull+Whirling Wrath(there is many examples,just name one) and the trait is suppose to help you with the task to survive,not to be obstacle that you hope to overcome w/o consequences.

Or they could leave it that way and rename it to “Last Mistake”

STRanger.5120:

Yes, those apply only to direct damage (which is sad )

It is not especially sad,because on the other hands conditions aren’t affected by damage reducing effects(like protection). The same they aren’t affected by neither toughness or power.

I don’t spam anything ever.Pistol-Dagger condition Thief doesn’t spam.And yet it somehow manage to kill me,especially when Stealth bug appears(the one that shows you visible and you cannot know that you are in Stealth already,unless you watch your buffs mini-bar).

For leveling you don’t have much choice,because you have caps on what max point can you put according to your level.If i recall correctly you cannot put 20 points in same trait line unless u have lvl 40,(same for lvl 20 and 60)so pretty much you are kinda forced to spread the points.At level 80 you have many options,but usualy you will have 1 or/and 2 maximized traits at least.But you need the leveling procces to begin to understand the traits purpose well.So don’t worry for that at this moment.

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mck9oovRloovRlo0xGG0ocbVaos

Pretty much permastealth.

It would be a balanced spec if Stealth was like Predator’s Stealth where you could still see the thief moving around, just like a mirror.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMMQgVDrwOU

Jesse Ventura FTW….

….Anyways….. i don’t think we need more weapon sets,just fix the existing ones and stop nerfing innocent skills.On a roleplaying state,i think the small knife that goes with the katana(it looks kinda like a mini katana) will look rather good too.

Dagins.5163:

It’s a stupid trait, hard to fix, but I found it very important anyway.

It works of you are trying to run away and somebody is shooting you at the back,but if you are actually fighting it seals your death.

Last Refuge:Use Blinding Powder when your health reaches 25%(90-second cooldown)

In theory it sounds great,but the truth is that this trait is by far the main reason of my deaths.I would say that 9 out of 10 occasions when it procs it secures my death,instead of helping me in some way.I cannot recall how many times while fighting it activates suddenly from a huge damage skill just to be removed 1/100 of a second later from my skill,causing me being with <25%HP+3 sec revealed debuff=100% dead thief.
The nasty graphical bug,that sometimes shows you completely visible w/o any transparency or blur while in Stealth doesn’t help at all.If i could disable it ,i would do it right away.But i can’t. I would propose a small change to it:Make it auto-daze the thief for 1 second upon proc,just to eliminate the chance to be removed right away by reflex or latency.This is just an idea.I don’t know if this is a good proposal,neither if it will work with Shadows Embrace Trait.Just in it’s curent status this trait is more harmful than a helpful.Any ideas?Maybe comment a bit?Thanks.

Just a little advice from me:
You can bind Alt+Any Button and use it with great success.I find left alt very easy accessible with my thumb.This is maybe not very handy for spamming skills,but for UI skills is great.I use alt-E,alt-Q,alt-D,alt-A,i even have alt-X which i press entirely with my left thumb.

I have red everything and here is what i have to say:
1.I don’t use Shortbow and i don’t need it.I use D/D+P/D(go figure)
2.Nobody(in right mind) complains about spammable skills,especially in TPvP.When i see thief spamming HS(or Unload),i am glad,because i see 15 points,coming to me.
3.The unique Thief initiative system which many people try to present as OP is in fact it’s biggest curse.Because the fact,that thief can use 1 skill several times dooms him to have mediocre skills for eternity(also he pays the price of little to no synergy between many of the skills,even from same weapon sets).Thief will never have knockbacks,or stability,or knockdown,invulnerabilty e.t.c.And off course this is right.Imagine a Thief with Spamable Shield Bash.
The skills that are really good can be counted on 1 hand:HS,PW,IA,IS,CD,CB(some people have 6 fingers).Spamming some of them is kinda very rewarding(HS is not what i mean).The next group are skills,very useful,but only at the right moment(Black Powder,Head Shot). While spamming them is possible,it’s pointless.It will only empty thief’s initiative and at the end he will again die.The third group are the completely trash skills(Body Shot is a typical member).
4.I am currently rank 41,so i also think,that my observations aren’t completely wrong.

sorrow.2364:

So… What’s the point of this thread?

^This.I ask this too. OP,didn’t you know that if you cannot kill an underpowered bunker Guardian single handed,it’s entirely your fault?I have seen a lot of theese arrogant Guardians,jumping alone vs 4-5 players,popping bubble,and then suddenly dies.
This is your punishment for trying something different than the usually labeled as OP Burst Builds(and to the extend condition thief build too).

TLDR:
In Guild Wars 2 there is 2 types of Thieves.
1.Those who kill people.They are clearly OP.
2.Those who can’t kill people.They are clearly Noobs.

Coffeebot.3921:

Back in my day I leveled my thief to 80 in 88h 39m with 41% map completion, but back then we didn’t have these things like “bug fixes” and “balancing of events” and such, we just played the game RAW.

P.S. Stabby stabby!

He-he,Stabby Stabby reminds me of some english dude i’ve seen on Youtube.His videos was cool!!!

From what i can gather,there is 2 thieves.One has pulled you with Scorpion wire,then C&D,then BS.The other did classic Steal+C&D+BS.The confusion comes from the fact,that the game kinda posted it in scrambled order.

Me personally,i don’t care about PvE.All i want is to jump in SPvP/TPvP and to destroy the enemy.But this is exactly the beauty of GW2.It has something for everyone.Totally agree-absolutely well worth the price!

Azucar.3594:

Guess what? YOU CAN SEE THE ELEMENTALIST COMING!!! Also, if he doesn’t kill you can’t vanish and try again and then vanish and try again

You have ZERO knowledge of what Backstab Builds work.Seriously.Isn’t thief visible until like 900 range?Vanish and try again w/o AS and BP?Vanish?How exactly you vanish in GW2?Which live-saving CD should he blow just to try again?Don’t you know that Backstab burst thief has only one condition cure per 30 sec?And basically no cripple cure?Don’t you know where his soft spots are?Where to hit him?You have played too much Shadowstep Rogue from the-other-game i guess but here you don’t have a clue ….

I just did what 99% of the complainers do:post a video with big numbers,cut from the actual gameplay and then drawing conclusion from it. You maybe feel it doesn’t go that way?That it isn’t right?Welcome to the club m8.Now you can feel a little bit of what we feel all the time…

Cirax.9231:

ZLE, You pretty much ignored everyone here who is trying to help you learn. If you continue to see things in black and white, we will be seeing a lot more crying from you. Read the above posts again.

I red your posts about the situational traits e.t.c.Did you read mine?
Doesn’t a thief with scholar runes needs to be >90% health?Or to be at the back?
And the target to be less than 50%hp for certain traits to apply bonus?Or to be successfully applied condition for 10% bonus?Or his venom to not be blocked?
Or not to be auto-feared on stun?Can’t you see that the same guys made all classes.
Or you see what is convinient to your eyes only….
And btw i don’t cry,i defend my class against whiners.I don’t care about Backstab(i never use it),i care about the FOTM using of thieves to justify anyone’s inability to play.

So in other words….
A guy decides to check ELE burst build(he probably have zero experience with it since he is testing it).He kills an opponent within 2 seconds.It’s OK thou.
Another guy decides to check Backstab Burst build(he probably have zero experience with it since he is testing it).He kills an opponent within 2 seconds.It’s not OK,must be nerfed…

Aether McLoud.1975:

I play a thief too so whats your point?

PLEASE add me as your friend.I will add you too,so we can play together and hopefully clarify how much you understand thief.I promise i will record everything,so you will be able to prove your point…

Aether McLoud.1975:

ZLE.8293:

And yes opponent was maybe afk but i don’t see any difference if he wasn’t.

Totally unrealistic video. Ele damage is about 10% of that under normal conditions.

a) player has to be above 90% health. Unrealistic.
b) target has to be below 25% health. Overkill.
c) target has to be afk to not dodge/use a stunbreaker. Unrealistic.
d) player uses 2 utilities and all long cooldown weapon skills. Free kill afterwards.

So stop comparing this video to thieves. Thieves do this amount of damage all the time without any significant cooldown inbetween AND they can escape unharmed afterwards because of stealth.

Dude pls…..let’s see concerning Backstab what we have:

a) player has to be above 90% health. Unrealistic.
b)Target has to be <50% health.Overkill.
c) target has to be afk to not dodge/use a stunbreaker. Unrealistic.
d) player uses 2 utilities and all long cooldown weapon skills? Free kill afterwards?
Don’t you have 3 more attunements?

Anyways,should i quote the usual rants by memory:

“Noone at any time should make that much damage for such small time”
“That much damage from 1 skill is OP”

Ring a bell?Sound familiar?

Back in the beta’s Shadow Escape used to teleport you away at a random location…
On a different floor,on a roof,on the other side of a wall…e.t.c.THAT was OP i agree,but the current state of the game i would say thief downed skills are at the lower end compared to others.

Do you realize that the thief is still lying helpless at the same place he vanished?
I am far more concerned about Warrior’s Vengeance and Engi’s Booby Trap for example,because i can easily die if i am not concentrated and don’t finish target quick.

Sithaco.4673:

You know what the real problem with these builds that people aren’t properly explaining. It isn’t the damage it causes, because that is countered by the low health/armor the glass cannon has. It is the fact that some of these builds are nearly impossible to counter.

The real problem is that the most people don’t want such burst builds to exist in a first place.Counterable or not.They just want it to be erased,so they could safely remove the stunbreakers to free a UI spot for the next offensive skill/signet.

To all QQ about the thief burst damage,just look at the video and we can comment:

Mind that this is SPvP…..
And yes opponent was maybe afk but i don’t see any difference if he wasn’t.

Tomkatt.1684:

Kurow.6973:

I personally don’t recommend you using condition damage for PvE, but that’s my personal opinion.

Well, any reason why? And in that case, any good specs specifically for a Deathblossom and pistols build?

Because there is a cap of 25 stacks for any condition(it counts conditions from all ,not just yours),and with the bosses and events(where you will often be with many others) you will find yourself fighting “immune” mobs all the time.

….Concerning Norn Thief…

I remember a scene from “Conan The Barbarian”:
Subotai pointing to Conan(Arnold Schwarzenegger),saying:
-You are too big to be a thief!!!!

My impression from sPvP/tPvP is that:
1.They are Rare.
2.They are not quite viable.Maybe i didn’t met a experienced P/P thief yet.Maybe bomber is right,but this will be still “best secondary weapon set”.What i get from your post is that you enjoy pistols and you want it for primarily set.Maybe you should try SPvP,where gear is for free,do some tests and see for yourself.Kiting with caltops is not that easy in PvP as in PvE , ppl have quite a few charge-rush-shadowstep like abilites,also cripple and chill effects.In this build you have literally NO way of going Stealth,neither you invested in Shadow arts and/or Acrobatics trait line.Black Powder and dodge just will not be enough to survive.Once the enemy burst players recognize you as an easy prey,it will only get worse and worse.You need more survivabilty.

Catalyst.8075:

I honestly don’t care about the dmg I adapted to a more toughness heavy build. What I don’t like is the endless stealth kittenome people do. I fought a thief just now who came in and out of stealth hitting me and this other guy once and vanishing again. Not sure if the rendering issue effects spvp as well, but it was annoying. He didn’t kill us or anything, but pretty much forced us to remain at the capture point. I know how thieves work I have a high level thief, but that was annoying.

Anyways, it could be the rendering thing, but it sure didn’t look like there were 3 seconds between.

That sounds like someone like me :P.The guy kept you occupied for the price of not getting points with the zerg.Annoying isn’t illegal.It’s annoying yes,but from my pow it’s fun

I believe it’s is intended,like there is a given time for enemy to be able to counter it.Like knocking you out of it.I don’t say i like it this way,just that developers want it that way.
Also they buffed it quite a bit when they let us “accumulate” the Stealth in the pre-previous patch.

Lvl 80 thief here,2100+ pvp games,pure fun.

Hadanta.2409:

Now way for us to stay stealth and walk around in the game. We should have a Stay stealth skill that has a 3 minute cool down or something. But if we attack the coll down starts on the timer. We can still use the heal stealth and stuff, just can’t go stealth for good for 3 minutes.

Actually we had such a skill in alpha.One year ago Hide in Shadows was a perma Stealth skill with 1 min CD,brake on attack.Later was changed on 15 sec Vanish+heal,brake on move.There was also an elite skill ,which is 8 sec Stealth EVEN if you are attacking :P.
Off course this is extremely OP and was removed.Here is an old video:

I am also an asura,and i am quite disappointed that nothing looks good on it.It’s just too small.However for armors i put big hopes on this armor:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Human_female_PvP_Flame_Legion_armor_%28medium%29.jpg
It looks great on asura.
Sadly i can get this at rank 50+,which means 10 more ranks(about 2 months as i see it).

sorrow.2364:

P/P is a great support set, great to finish off targets on low health with Unload, but it is also quite good thanks to its utility.

You have the rare talent to present some complete garbage as a valuable thing.
Did you try a carrier as a salesman of used cars or something?

I will rate only those 3 UI skills that i use:

1.Shadow Refuge – 9/10 .Yes it can be countered,but most of the time when i use it,i would be dead anyway if i don’t use it. Also i saved thousands allies from stomping with it.
2.Roll For Initiative – 8/10 . It is priceless against rangers Entangle,warriors 100blades and flurry ,also various knock down+slow but devastating attacks (engi and ele have such) e.t.c.What i don’t like is that 90% when i use it i am at full initiative(Bull Rushed or attacked by BS thief suddenly e.t.c), thus +6 bonus is wasted.Also i don’t really get why Shadowstep have 10 sec lower CD than Roll For Initiative.Shadowstep is the better ability overall.
3.Caltrops – 9/10.It goes with the build(i am condition).For this gameplay is priceless,for any other is worthless.

Is this build for PvE or PvP? Since you have Roll for Initiative i suspect it’s for PvP.

Concerning skills:
Signet of Malice is a option but i Prefer Hide in Shadows(mind that you don’t have any condition clear).
I would replace Signet of Shadows with Caltrops.They make half of your damage.

Concerning traits:
You don’t need Mug and Dagger Training.You are condition thief,not direct damage thief and you can’t have them both,at least at this state of the game.I would invest those 20 points somewhere else.
In the Trickery trait line,replace Initial Strike with something else: II,V,VII or VIII are good options.The reason is that you musn’t attack with normal attack.Your tactic is apply bleeds+hide rinse and repeat.
In Shadow Arts tree which is imo the best tree there are at least several priceless traits:
III,IV,VI,XI.Invest more here.
You didn’t say anything about runes and sigils.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

FriQenstein.5218:

Logic… you have none.
Thief cannot deny they are enjoying their little stealth ‘glitch’ and continue to complain about all sorts of other things they call ‘game breaking’… ya. Great logic.

Thieves are also enjoying being hit by attacks like rapid fire, and life drain for the entire duration of their stealth period. You know, the one that’s extended by a glitch.

Both should be fixed. Not one. Not the other. Both.

My personal favorite is Guardian’s Binding Blade.
Anywhere in 600 range,no matter hidden or not you are pulled,which is funny because basically it works like multiple Scorpion Wires but hey who needs a target.

Eduardo.4675:

Slowly people are starting to realize that p/d was buffed with its return to previous state.

It wasn’t buffed.It was “returned to it/s previous state”.And considering that the both offhand skills were nerfed…Now if they changed Body Shot 5 stacks of vulnerabilty to 3 stacks of might would be buff.
…And yes i am condition thief.C&D lower damage doesn’t bother me.What bothers me is that it was a stupid nerf w/o reason and without addresing to the real BS “problem”.
They should nerf Mug,not C&D.With this attitude(nerfing innocent skills like PW instead of Haste for example),ANet are troubling me.Theese aren’t good changes.Why they hitted S/D.Isn’t it gameplay the typical tactical/sneaky positional gameplay with moderate damage-control ratio thief should be?I don’t know.

xbutcherx.3861:

too bad I can’t find the video a warrior bladetrail doing 42k damage to a necro with pets and so you know is has cool down sames as a thief, but you cool down is 1 skill, for the thief is all the skills when you use all initiatives.

Here,i found it for you:

sorrow.2364:

Kensei.6197:

Mind if i ask you which part of a 6-initiative-33%-damage-off-skill you consider CHEAP?

Probably has no recharge?
Probably you can get back 2 initiative if you have an Adept shadow art trait, so it is actually 4 initiative?

Oh but it HAS recharge.6 initiative are regenerated for 10 seconds….
Imagine a skill,that has a hidden cooldown of 10 seconds ,which also is applied to all other weapon skills regardless of weapon change.

Get the picture?

gamefreak.5673:

You complain that one type of skill (channeled) can track you while you are in stealth.

Do you think that if i start to Unload against a warrior and he pops Shield Stance the channeling should continue trough it,because it’s already started?
Or trough Guardians Bubble?
Or trough Engineers Shrink?
Or trough Mist Form?

Why this classes have such abilities and suddenly Thief doesn’t?
…..Well because he is given Stealth to help him prevent damage(not to help him change clothes w/o being seen).And thats why we all think it isn’t intended.
And BTW it isn’t one type of skill.Leaps like HS and Eviscerate also hit you if the guy have autotarget Option enabled.

You cannot address ANet employees directly.My post was deleted when i adressed Forum Moderators about my 7 days forum ban and i was warned in personal message by a moderator because of this.

I saw your build,i can say a lot ,but this will turn the topic to a opinion battle,which i don’t want.Cheers.

Xyrm.5602:

Usually a signet (shadows or assassin) is a better choice for the 3rd slot, for mobility or damage. Especially if you’re using OH dagger or pistol, you don’t NEED blinding powder as you’re probably pushing against the sneak attack cooldown as it is.

Oh yes,you do.32 sec 5-6 sec stealth,that can be used while stunned and also blinds the stunner,i think you do.Or at least any non BS-burst does.I assume you as a fan of those 2 signets that you mentioned are a BS-Burst build.I suppose that anything with lower CD that your Steal-Basilisk Venom-Assassins Signet is useless for your setup and gameplay.

OK,……. Don’t get me wrong,while i think its a BIG buff(i will equip this skill right away
when i get back home from work),overall i think this is a poor and bad decision.
Why?
Let’s see the Deception type UI skills:

1.Shadowstep.(deception)
2.Shadow Refuge.(deception)
3.Blinding Powder.(deception)

Now if this isn’t Holy Trinity i don’t know what is.This 3 skills are SOOO much above anything else,especialy traited with -20% recharge,that this instantly renders every other UI skills inferior by a lot.A lot. And this pigeonholing is bad,very bad.
It kills variety,and variety is a prerequesit for progress.Just my opinion.

Eduardo.4675:

Psikerlord.2569:

33% damage reduction on CnD… ahhh don’t know if that will change the current burst problem much? Dancing dagger wow 50% down. Mug dmg unchanged. Interesting blinding powder got 40s cooldown, now maybe it can compete with SR. I am surprised no real buff to pistols from what i can tell? Otherwise i suppose nothing too drastic here. CnD steal precast still possible. hmm. guess this is supposed to be quick 3s down on glass cannon game. I reserve judgment until playing 2nite and see how these changes interact with other class changes in PvP (looks like guard healing nerfed, not sure about water ele)

There was a buff to pistols, body shot is now quicker,and most important, the sneack attack before required 3 autos before reapllying C&D, now its only 2 and a very slight delay on C&D… BUUUUUUFFFF!!

Dude please!Sneak Attack was always like that and they broke it in the last patch because of some imaginary “fix” of Backstab bug. Now they merely revert what they messed up.An concerning Body Shot……..WoW that is my top one ability in whole Universe.I will name my first born “Body Shot”.

Zunhar.4079:

ZLE.8293:

Zunhar.4079:

Phew. I was really worried there for a second. I seriously hope they don’t give Steal a cast time…

Or remove the cast time of C&D.This will be both nerf and buff.

Now there’s an interesting idea. I still think people would just Steal to close the gap and then use CnD for the instant stealth.

Who knows, we will see.Maybe they will introduce a new debuff “hiden”, which will disable auto attack for 2 seconds after Stealth :P (joking).

Zunhar.4079:

Phew. I was really worried there for a second. I seriously hope they don’t give Steal a cast time…

Or remove the cast time of C&D.This will be both nerf and buff.

OK now let me see…
UO—>necro fencer
Diablo 2—>Assassin
Knight Online—>Rogue
WoW—>Rogue/Feral Druid
GW—>Warrior in Prophesies/Assassin since Factions
Aion—>Scout
Rift—>Assassin/Nightblade
GW2—>Owerpowered Condition Thief with perma stealth .

Bambam.3961:

It seems a bit over the top for a Thief to be able to Finish off someone in WvW/PvP while stealthed, so no one can do anything about it. I’ve done my fair share of doing this in PvP as a Thief. Both on giving it and receiving this tactic. But as of lately I feel like it just isn’t right.

Why start this AGAIN several hours before the patch.Why didn’t you wait to see if this will be addressed(or needs addressing)?
Are you a troll?
Didn’t you read like several topics about this from before?
Do we(thieves) have stability,bubble,mist form and numerous other abilities that do exactly same thing?
“No one can do anything about it”?
You as a thief didn’t you equip Shadows Embrace and thus save the friends life once every minute?