Guild Wars 2

I believe, that the patches will eventually lead this game into another game such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_Game_of_Life

Yup… pretty balanced, never ending too.

Ayano.5986:

If anyone complains about thieves then you know they’re bad period.

Fixed it. At least mock/chrip properly.

Highlie.7641:

Zero Day.2594:

cut

That’s a good point. guess i was miss interpenetrating your words.

On another note healing is probably part of the problem Mcfribble. but it’s to late to change, say they linked Shadow rejuvenation, regen or healing to the revealed buff we wouldn’t hear so many complaints. but they would have to buff to compensate

They would have to double the regen rates, or perhaps how the thieves scales healing Rework cleanses probably damage, ect. That’s a lot of work. and while this Might work in Wvw. in Spvp the maps are clustered, Aoe is prevalent. would this even work there?

There’s already a discussion on Thief’s Self Heals….

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Self-Heals/

Black Teagan.9215:

Maugetarr.6823:

You should spend more time in the profession balance forum. Lately, even stolen skills like WA and consume ecto get called OP, especially when we can trait to get them on a 21 second CD. Check out the nerfs wish list. There are links to these ridiculous threads.

I talk about the base mechanics and not about stolen items, who need a specific enemy.

Yeah you should look through the wish list, especially posts that are “Originally by” someone or link to a thread…. Someone complained about that ability we steal from mesmers that gives us all the boons.

Highlie.7641:

You really don’t like Wvw players do you?

I neither dislike or like them. That’s just my opinion (based on experience in doing WvW and sPvP, along with reading theses forums), that compliments the complaints and their sources.

See if you know where the complaints are coming from, then maybe it will help with a bigger issue.

Now by “Damage Dealers”…
Do you mean…
Damage Dealers that do damage to the game via QQ’ing?
Or
Damage Dealers that do damage in game?

Viking Jorun.5413:

Zero Day.2594:

Aen Gelinor.4062:

Me say remove all professions from the game, they’re op. We can play as ranger pets.

Leave the warrior. Warrior is balanced. (I think they’ve said it’s in a good place)

So that means they plan on buffing all other classes to be on par with warrior, right?

Noooo…. that’s a bit too hard. It’s easier to nerf everything so that people are more inclined to play the warrior class. And once everyone’s playing a warrior, the game will be balanced. I think they’re making good progress on the thief class.

(All about the big picture…)

So many “Damage Dealers” in this thread….

Aen Gelinor.4062:

Me say remove all professions from the game, they’re op. We can play as ranger pets.

Leave the warrior. Warrior is balanced. (I think they’ve said it’s in a good place)

I would argue that there’s a skill difference between those that sPvP (even hot join) and those that WvW, along with a different mentality (which effects their general PvP skills).

Skill difference can be seen for yourself if you frequently do sPvP for a while and then switch to doing WvW.
The mentality changes from “I’m on my own” or “I have some weight to pull” (sPvP) to “I’m in a zerg” or “I don’t need to do much since i’m in a zerg, someone will do it for me” (WvW). It’s not EXACTLY those words (since i know some troll will take it literally) but i would say your mentality between the two modes does changes. With that being said in sPvP you should be “in the zone” while in WvW you might be hopping along carelessly with the zerg.
That’s why we see a lot of complaints from the WvW folks….
People that roam a lot should have better PvPing skills than those that are constantly with the zerg.

And then there’s the different environmental things that effect the general PvPing, for instance in sPvP there’s no critters/mobs you can CnD off of whereas in WvW there are…. But at the same time if the victim has that switch in his brain set to “off”, i dont think it matters what environment he may be in.

Feel free to contribute to the nerf wish list (in my signature), that should aid the Devs in what need’s nerfing on the thief.

Fortus.6175:

Cynz.9437:

30/30/30/30/30 build is so OP

I wont call you ignorant, but you sir need to know about the S/D and D/P that plagues sPvP. They have access to all of the afore mentioned stuff without having to fall in your uncivilized and near sighted fail of a joke.

Hey. Hey you… Are you a damage dealer? Yeah? Well go away! Shoo! SHOO!

Stooperdale.3560:

Thieves are not going to get a sniping weapon because it isn’t actually much fun at all, particularly for those getting shot.

and so it started even before being released….

Lue.6538:

Zero Day.2594:

Damage Dealer when he sees a thief in group:
WOW
much unfair
very cheese
so buttery
disgusting
*The damage dealer leaves the group, exits the stage on the left side. *

Thief block best block.

TEEEF OP

Master of Timespace.2548:

Zero Day.2594:

Damage Dealer when he sees a thief in group:
WOW
much unfair
very cheese
so buttery
disgusting
*The damage dealer leaves the group, exits the stage on the left side. *

The damage dealer is of course a thief as well.

MMM i dont know…. that wouldnt make sense much….

Damage Dealer when he sees a thief in group:
WOW
much unfair
very cheese
so buttery
disgusting
*The damage dealer leaves the group, exits the stage on the left side. *

I’ll be the first to say this, since it will happen inevitably….
That’s such a cheesy OP build….
Not only cheesy but also buttery…

:| There.

(I really didn’t look, which is as much evaluation you will get from someone that says “cheesy” or “OP”.
But really, GJ, I have no opinion for that build.)

There will always be QQ’s since there will always be scrubs that can’t improve for whatever reason they come up…. Balance has nothing to do with this….

just a free bump to this funny thread

Thief: Shoo damage dealer SHOO
Damage Dealer: WHHAAAAAAAAAA * Goes on the forums *

Thieves are bad bad people…

BlackDevil.9268:

…
We need less passive play, more active play!

The irony….

Question is….
Can you handle more QQ?
An addition to the thief’s weaponry will surely bring more QQ’s about how that weapon is OP.

Azgarn.2145:

Azgarn.2145:

First off, you are hanging on to something that was said BEFORE the game launched, over a YEAR ago. Before ascended armor even existed. ……..

Of course ascended gear is going to take time and money to get, and very very rare drops from certain mobs/chests. Play any other MMO and you’d have to grind your pants off in dungeons and PVE just to get exotic lvl gear.

Zero Day.2594:

…
Eh, o well, just a marketing thing, “nothing was set in stone”, “things changes”, <millions other arguments i can search up on the general forums>.

Honestly spare me, I heard these before. I’m glad you’re okay with it, I’m not and don’t try to convince me to be. I’m not trying to convince you.

Stompy.1387:

Heartseeker on slopes has been bugged since day one. Fixing it would be a buff, so don’t expect it.

Huh…? Bug?… it’s “working as intended”…. no bugs here…

Azgarn.2145:

Zero Day.2594:

mPascoal.4258:

Zero Day.2594:

:/ Sadly that plus the fact that in WvW aside from roaming (and i find it boring and unrewarding) we’re very sub-par, I’ve pretty much stopped playing. Rarely log on to flip things on TP…
On top of that, the addition of ascended gear… and the general living world that dies every 2 weeks (or even less if people rush)…. (lol the poll results in my signature reached 1k votes…)
O well… “Prepare for TitanFall in 5 days” … long kitten timer…

Where is the problem of Ascended Gear exactly?

Don’t know… I guess it’s a personal thing… Originally they’ve said that max stats would easily be acquired, by even casual players, upon max level… Ascended gear has max stats, is not “easily” acquired as it requires a lot of time and gold investment. Top it off it makes changing builds very “rigid” if you want to keep the max stats…. really puts a bad taste to this game for me (and at least ~638 other players).
I’m guessing your on the other side of the fence that you like ascended, see no problem with it, maybe it’s easy for you (since it’s nothing like the grind in other games…), and don’t understand why i want to have max stats since majority of the game can be done without it.

yeah I’m pretty sure they just meant exotic gear was going to be easy to acquire. not ascended, which is only ~5% upgrade anyways. And I’m pretty sure they admitted stats dont round up, so the ~5% is hardly noticeable anyways unless you have a full set.

Right, that another view i forgot to mention that ~5% is nothing significant. Though to a certain degree it be categorized into “don’t understand why i want to have max stats”, since i would want that extra 5% (to me it makes a difference, it’s 5% better than the other gear… it’s BiS… i don’t know… i tried to argue for this but got nowhere and wont argue again since it’s pointless)

They didn’t mean a specific tier, they didn’t say “exotic”, they just said max stats (or “best statiscal loot”)…

“Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.”

Eh, o well, just a marketing thing, “nothing was set in stone”, “things changes”, <millions other arguments i can search up on the general forums>.

mPascoal.4258:

Zero Day.2594:

:/ Sadly that plus the fact that in WvW aside from roaming (and i find it boring and unrewarding) we’re very sub-par, I’ve pretty much stopped playing. Rarely log on to flip things on TP…
On top of that, the addition of ascended gear… and the general living world that dies every 2 weeks (or even less if people rush)…. (lol the poll results in my signature reached 1k votes…)
O well… “Prepare for TitanFall in 5 days” … long kitten timer…

Where is the problem of Ascended Gear exactly?

Don’t know… I guess it’s a personal thing… Originally they’ve said that max stats would easily be acquired, by even casual players, upon max level… Ascended gear has max stats, is not “easily” acquired as it requires a lot of time and gold investment. Top it off it makes changing builds very “rigid” if you want to keep the max stats…. really puts a bad taste to this game for me (and at least ~638 other players).
I’m guessing your on the other side of the fence that you like ascended, see no problem with it, maybe it’s easy for you (since it’s nothing like the grind in other games…), and don’t understand why i want to have max stats since majority of the game can be done without it.

See I had a (conspiracy) theory that ANet has already decided what they’re going to do next with the game and are using the CDI topics to voice their opinions so that hopefully someone says something that they already plan on doing. If that makes sense….
ANet decided to implement Feature ‘J’, they open up a CDI around that topic and people scream out with Features ‘A,B,G,K,R’ … then someone says Feature ‘J’ or close to it, ANet is happy, closes the topic. Later releases feature ‘J’ and says “Oh look it was mentioned in the CDI topics… we did what you asked…”
So… maybe that’s why, OP?

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Zero Day.2594:

@P Fun Daddy

o.O I sense you’re mad at me for something… or it’s misdirected because that reason is an exact copy-paste from the thread linked, so I didn’t even write that, just read it and copied it here (gave credit to him, notice “Originally by: gesho.9468”)

He requested a nerf, I added it to the wish list…
I’m just trying to make the forums a cleaner place, nerf requests for thieves occur very often and sometimes flood the forums, possibly making it harder for developers to read them… so this thread was created to stop the flooding and help the devs.

What? No, I wasn’t mad, I was trying to make a post in line with the humor of the rest of the thread, sort of trying to chip in to the aside at the end of your post.

Wow, that full over my head….

Pretty sure they already talked about this, that it’s left over dev-stuff, there’s also a UFO one i think…

Fade.7658:

I’ll take a shotgun, however (main hand and offhand equippable!!!).

Dual shotguns for the win!

You mean… akimbo shotguns….

@P Fun Daddy

o.O I sense you’re mad at me for something… or it’s misdirected because that reason is an exact copy-paste from the thread linked, so I didn’t even write that, just read it and copied it here (gave credit to him, notice “Originally by: gesho.9468”)

He requested a nerf, I added it to the wish list…
I’m just trying to make the forums a cleaner place, nerf requests for thieves occur very often and sometimes flood the forums, possibly making it harder for developers to read them… so this thread was created to stop the flooding and help the devs.

Added this to the nerf wish list thread….
I wish that thread could be moved into balance forums to help the forums stay clean….

:/ Sadly that plus the fact that in WvW aside from roaming (and i find it boring and unrewarding) we’re very sub-par, I’ve pretty much stopped playing. Rarely log on to flip things on TP…
On top of that, the addition of ascended gear… and the general living world that dies every 2 weeks (or even less if people rush)…. (lol the poll results in my signature reached 1k votes…)
O well… “Prepare for TitanFall in 5 days” … long kitten timer…

Originally by: gesho.9468

What: No CD on Interrupts
Why: from different thread i just learned thief init skills are not subject to usual 5sec cd once interrupted. eg if you want to disrupt d/p thief’s stealth combo, you interrupt hs, no biggies, thief can still spam hs in the same powder, interrupted hs is not put on 3sec cd, like any other prof skill would. imo thief skills should be subject to the same 3sec interruption cd as anyone else’s. otherwise thief gameplay is largely beyond informed counter.
Suggestion: imo thief skills should be subject to the same 3sec interruption cd as anyone else’s.
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/pvx-subject-thieves-to-regular-interrupts

(Never mind the fact that we lose init if we miss, and init is sort of like a global CD/resource…. wait that’s too complicated, what am I talking about…)

@vince
Yeah I don’t do tournys, I get enough out of (hot-join) sPvP. tPvP/Higher-level, I will leave it to other people to deal with.
“only works due to other players incompetence” – yup! there’s plenty of those, even more in WvW (ever noticed where the majority of thief QQ’s come from…?). It’s sad, but that’s the reality.

So, don’t know what other thieves do in sPvP, the only way I find my self usefull (as a thief) is (and i run P/D condi/bleed):
- “Backcapping”, provided the mobility (and lack of “Frontcapping” ability), I usually steal points when people are roaming in zergs (and they do sometimes). Should there be 1-2 enemies i can usually hold my ground until some backup arrives at which point the decision to stay or ditch is made (if it’s their backup and not mine).
- Making fights unfair. If I see a fight happening while traveling between two points and if I know that i can step in and unbalance it in our favor, i will. (So if there’s a 1v1 duel going on, I would step in, that sorta thing).

:\ That’s the only ways I find my self useful on the team. (Not so uncommon to be on as top of the winning team either, or 2nd place.)

Put it this way…
If a psychiatric hospital got funding, bought new computers with that funding, and got people to play and they couldn’t deal with certain aspects of the game…. would those aspects be OP?

Yes, it was and still remains to be MASSSSIVELY OP.
Clearly needs more nerfing.

Selver.1307:

Sticky a thread called “Thief is OP, anything related to such a statement goes in this thread”

After that all posts outside of said thread about thief being op or needing a nerf, gets a 48 hour forum ban.

…

Nevermind, then the thief forum wouldn’t move…

/cry

I tried…
I created the nerf wish list… :/ Yet people still litter…

Pretty sure the complaints general come from WvW players. Which are probably conditioned into mindless zerging, and lack general PvP skills (try playing a lot of sPvP then go into WvW….). When someone that has a spoonful of intelligence starts to duel them, they’re required to think, however fail to do so because of their conditioning. And so they come here to QQ. Their general argument will always surround or lead to “thieves OP because of stealth”, and stealth is OP because it’s STEALTH (like how can you not get that?). Some are a bit more creative and say we have too many evades, or even more creative they link youtube videos of PvE content showing that our damage is too high.

Thief OP? Yes, because the vast majority it seems can’t deal with them.
o.O

BobbyT.7192:

Am I the only one here that doesn’t want the thieves CDI to happen. By hour 3 I bet there will be 10-15 pages of “stealth op please nerf” -_-

3 Hours…? LOL
more like 20 seconds

Dagins.5163:

Golden rule of MMOs says:
,,If you want a trap to be any useful, you must plant them directly on top of your enemy."

…

RF Online Assassin class, basically a trapper class, breaks that rule…. X.x I wish there were traps like those in this game…. 1-2 trap hits = dead squishy, 2-3 = dead medium, 3-4 = dead heavy, able to lay 15 at a time…. With them you could kill anyone or anything, without them you couldn’t do anything.
Hold choke points, troll spawns, troll entrances… Countless uses…
And the best thing is you didn’t have to place on top of anyone, you waited for them to walk into your traps (provided you set them at a choke point or at entrance…. or baited them into it).
Traps in this game are just sad.

purgatoryz.6038:

3 PTV / 3 Zerk. With the upcoming change to Ferocity, there won’t be different percentage tradeoffs per piece so I’d take the PTV in the highest stat slots, so Chest/Legs/whatever.

That gives just a pinch of survivability for WvW and works with every power based build out there.

You can use the set in PvE, though the real issue isn’t what stats are on the armor, it’s what runes you are using. Anything but scholar and it’s a noticeable difference in DPS, and scholar isn’t ideal for a general purpose power sustain WvW build (see: traveler/divinity/speed/etc).

TLDR; Without changing runesets each time you go pve -> wvw, you are screwed from a min/max perspective. Just bite the bullet and make 2 sets. It’ll still be cheaper than 1 set of light ascended armor!

To make matters worse, there are rune changes too in the upcoming patch (or whenever the 10% nerf and 2 sigils on 2handers comes)… who knows how that will turn out (buff for 2handers… wait we only got 1 … )…

:/ The problem that OP is facing is exactly why I dislike how (or even why) ascended has been implemented… (I could pull out that famous quote by chris… but… I don’t they that matters or they care about that either).

Yeah, what’s OP?
Can you be a bit more specific? What don’t you like? People not taking you into groups because you’re not a thief (or are because you are one)?

Axelwarrior.9084:

Viking Jorun.5413:

• Stealth traps
• “Sic’ Em!”
• AoE damage
• Interrupt stealth cast (all skills but blinding powder that give stealth have a cast time.)

May I also add:

• A brain

Too much to ask. Conditioned for mindless zerging.

godz raiden.2631:

The only reason I suggest d/p gets tuned down slightly is because of the near permastealth builds that are directly created because of the ease of which you can heartseeker through BPS. I personally don’t have a problem with it, but it’s hard to justify any decent changes (read buffs) to thieves if stealthing options like the one d/p offers exists in its current state. I don’t think it’s “OP” either, but you can’t deny that most of the complaints about thieves somehow end up going to the “BPS is broken” argument. And let’s be honest, d/p really is a low risk weapon set.

Most complaints end up going in a circular fashion, where the thief is OP because of stealth and that’s op because thief can stealth…. They tend to emphasize stealth a lot…
That or, they get a little bit more creative and say something like, thief has perma-evades.
If they end up with “BPS is broken”, then they’re really creative and are smarter than your average bear…

Travlane.5948:

…
right now its almost useless against good players.

Keywords there… Because the vast majority are… well… not good. Hence why it’s “OP”.

Evilek.5690:

Here is your OP Black Powder

Dat MS Paint skill

:| To think you can easily and clearly explain the counter to the all mighty BP by a simple drawing in paint….
Don’t know how you managed to capture it all…

This is brilliant (off topic though):

sorrow.2364:

Ignoring your sad rant…
Stop getting mad each time you see someone talking bad about your beloved profession and start to play more than one profession and not being emotionally tied to a single one like a kid.

sorrow.2364:

More childish personal attacks, please. This is exactly what this forum needs.

:| Someone grab the fire extinguisher…

On topic, yeah sure nerf WA… It’s already on the nerf wish list .
Please mods move the wish list from the thief forum and into balance forum… So that everyone can contribute

x.X just agree with those that cry and support their idea to nerf black powder…
There’s too many of them to even try and argue…

Those guys that run around in WvW in large packs (sometimes you can find them alone)… Defenders/Invaders…

Well… I was too hopeful and spoke too soon…
Lol at traps and venom changes… buffs OP…