Guild Wars 2

Okay, so aside from:
Zerker Thieves,
Decap Engie
PU Mesmers

Everything is either balanced or UP?
Necros, Ele’s, Guardians, Warriors, and Rangers fully balanced/UP?

So, I’m gonna take a wild guess here… Everyone’s running an OP build and when they lose to another they cry “OP!”

Imagi.4561:

Judging from the build he posted, I’d have to say that thread is just a troll.

Yeah more then likely… But some of the more serious ones i would have thought they were trolls too (chocking gas, 1st page)… Either way all nerfs are welcome!

:D Just to be on the safe side, added your post to the nerf wish list…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Nerf-Wish-list
Please stop littering the forums, and use that post to request nerfs…

style.6173:

Zero Day.2594:

So far:
Med Guardians
Condition guardian
P/P weapon set for Thieves
Rangers
Eles (zerker)
Healing necromancer
Lifesteal necromancer
Mantra mesmer
Confusion-staking mesmer
Engineers

Engineers? No no no. Do you not see all the threads about decap engis or bunker engis? They are insanely strong right now and easy to play.

corrected it to power engies…

Need specifics..

So far:
Med Guardians
Condition guardian
P/P weapon set for Thieves
Rangers
Eles (zerker)
Healing necromancer
Lifesteal necromancer
Mantra mesmer
Confusion-staking mesmer
Engineers (power)

Originally by: hihey.1075

What: Stealth and Damage
Why: However, everytime I find a thief, no matter what, I just die. And the problem is, I can’t even see him! I just go around, then bam! Dead! I got hit by 18k spikes out of nowhere. And when I see the thief in front of me and I manage to avoid his attack, he will just go in stealth in another gimmicky way and backstab me from behind! I can’t even use my heal, because his burst is on a 0s CD!
Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-need-nerf

bwillb.2165:

…
However, I don’t think it’s a balance issue…. rather, it’s a content issue.

I actually kinda can see that…
That, plus, adding an extra weapon set means more skills means more (skill) balancing issues…

One could also say… “Don’t add any more weapons/skills until you fix/balance the class”… which will be never (for lots of various reason…).

I’m surprised that there’s only one post that says we shouldn’t get a weapon because we’re OP (the post also include STEALTH!!!!!!)…

The Primary.6371:

Swagg.9236:

THIEF BASE HP

• Thief base hp at level 80 increased from 10,805 to 15,082.
• The Thief’s hp now scales identically to Engineer, Ranger and Mesmer hp levels.

NEW CONDITION UNIQUE TO THE THIEF – STAGGERED

• Staggered foes cannot gain protection or stability. Staggering a foe removes up to 2 stacks of Defiant.
• Staggered does not stack in duration nor in intensity. If a staggered foe were to be staggered again, the second instance of staggered would simply overwrite the first instance.

You want to give a class that has boon stealing a condition that blocks protection or stability or both if you had your way………/facepalm.

Dude this is a joke thread… let’s suppose the changes did go through, the thief would be worse off then it currently is… if you don’t like the thief, you should be supporting his ideas… (because overall…)

5k HP increase and a new condition at the expense of 200 nerfs… he even put cooldowns on some skills… LOL this is a joke…

Let’s not forget.. warrior’s sword:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sever_Artery
Bleeds (x2)+ cripples (x1)+cleaves

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DominationCreation.5703:

Dude! Thieves are OP as it is. With high damage output and EXTREME precision and critical hit chance weapon’s don’t matter! Stealth helps too. Be happy for theif to be amazing anyway.

This is not about being OP or not, this is about expanding the build diversity. With limited choices on weapon sets, most Thieves run the same build.

Do you believe then that it is fair and balance that other professions have access to a wide variety of skills from weapon sets while the Thief profession is singled-out and pigeon-holed into few weapon set choices?

If Anet wants to balance the professions, then Thieves deserve at least 10 weapon sets.

But dude, you don’t get it. Thieves are OP as it is! Their builds are OP. If you give them more diversity they will have more diverse OP builds. And stealth helps too. Be happy we have many OP builds, and EXTREME stats in precision and critical hit chance that trumps whatever weapon we use. Like nerf them more till balanced, maybe take away a weapon since they have too many OP builds.

(Like I said this thread isn’t going to go anywhere… mainly due to “thief OP”)

What: Every nerf in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Thief-The-Black-Sheep-5-8
There’s too many to list.
Why: I really don’t know why (probably somewhere in the text…), but I think the guy thinks it would be a good redesign and would balance things…

tom.7468:

Any useful build = OP
Any useless build = UP
That’s what it looks like when people call builds op.

I never asked what’s specifically only for UP. I’m asking what’s not OP, meaning UP and balanced, or another category that i dont know of… And you’re being very general too…

Swagg.9236:

…
[Consume Plasma] (Mesmer)

• Cast-time reduced from 1 second to ½ second.
• All boon durations respectively decreased from 10 seconds to 5 seconds.
• Now no longer grants stability.

Okay, aside from all the other nerfs (control+f “reduce” or “decrease” or “increase”… and count), I’m sorry i mean to say remakes or redesign (does that sound less offensive? more sugary?), this one is kittening gold. No even platinum…
Yes thieves in their current state have way too much access to stability… This is a brilliant redesign, nvm the 10s to 5s … but removing stability is just, you had to have a PhD to come up with that brilliant idea.

Man I wish I can merge this thread with my nerf wish list… so many great ideas….

I want all these changes to go through!

RoyalPredator.9163:

…
Permastealth finishing one by one…
…

What do you mean by that…? Stealth-stomping? Pretty sure when you’re finished the stomp you break stealth… then you re-enter it by various means (now is that permanent stealth? i think not… as it ends, and we re-enter…)
Permastealth fighting? nope, can’t have stealth permanently up either, have to re-enter by various means, sometimes after a debuf wears out too…. and if we chain stealths (and this creates the illusion of “permastealth” for scrubs like you) together, we’re not exactly doing damage either.
Permastealthing when scouting? As in blinding powder + heart seaker? Yeah, we’re not doing any damage either, just scouting/collecting information… We upkeep our stealth that has a timer by re-applying stealth before the timer runs outs, chaining it “carefully”(not really), it creates the illusion of “permastealth” for scrubs like you…

:) sorry don’t mean to rip on you in particular, i mean to rip on everyone that says “permastealth”, because they’re scrubs that either don’t understand how stealth works (the fact that it can run out, and how you can chain to fool scrubs) or haven’t looked up the word permanent in the dictionary. To a certain degree i enjoy hearing “permastealth” as I know there now exists at least one scrub that i can roll . have a nice day.

I sincerely know, it sucks to be a ranger right now…

P Fun Daddy.1208:

But it doesn’t need a damage nerf. Assuming you’re talking about high-damage builds, the amount of risk that accompanies using the skill makes it have to deal high damage.
On top of that, it’s really, really easy to move out of the AoE.
Sure you can hit crazy numbers in zergs, but who can’t?

Sometimes that doesn’t justify for some builds…. for some odd reasons… o well

BUMP, let’s see what’s not OP people! Or is everything OP because you lose to it?

Yup… this isnt going to go anywhere… since we’re “OP”…
To add to the chaos … “but you have steal to give you moar abilities… aren’t you thankful? and i mean stealth… STEALTH!!!! OOOO PEEE” (Man… Iron Maiden should rename “Fear of the Dark” to “Fear of the Stealth”….)

Would love to have a rifle (1200 range ) or dual swords…

Impact.2780:

Zero Day.2594:

(ugh, btw trying to get a list of “what’s not OP” on the balance forums… should be fun)

…
EDIT: We could test the theory! Get a bunch of thieves to head to WvW and PvP and actually take Hard to Catch. Within the hour there’ll be half a dozen threads explaining why it should be nerfed.

>.< I kinda misled you there. The post’s about what builds aren’t OP, for any class…
But yeah um i think people are having a hard time listing things… Anyways… not gonna hijack this thread any further…
The one in balance:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/WvW-PvP-What-s-not-OP

As for your Hard to Catch idea:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Survey-Worthless-abilities/first#post3572702

bobomb.5209:

Zero Day.2594:

[Thief ]

• Hard to Catch [Trait] – Bad design.
• Back Fighting [Trait] – ?

Could you possibly explain why Hard to Catch is bad design? And do you know what back fighting is? I assume that you don’t since you used a question mark for it’s explanation as to why it’s worthless.

Yeah i think it could work… (he’s not being sarcastic…)

Aza.2105:

…
doesn’t have any warning signs to counter play.
…

Warning Sign: Thief is in stealth. (and has a melee weapon set, dem back stabs)
Meaning: Possible burst of damage will happen, more likely if the thief is higher health than you.
Proposed Reaction: Run forward, sparsely dodge rolling to gain distance and stall till stealth runs out, possibly dodge a backstab as well.
People’s Reaction: Stand in place. Or, run around in circles (not creating distance). Or slowly walk backwards…

o.O i dont know… maybe it’s the way i play… but i can guess why the thief went into stealth… and this is just an example…

D: But guys… it’s not fair, i want a fair fight… If that doesn’t happen you’re OP…
If a fight is fair, and you still beat me, clearly you’re OP as well, since you beat me… but if the fight is slightly favored for me, i won’t complain…

(ugh, btw trying to get a list of “what’s not OP” on the balance forums… should be fun)

Lupanic.6502:

if you are playing a class and build and before a fight you do not know if you win or lose. That’s not OP.

If you know you win regardless of the other class or build or skill than you are OP. If you know you lose than the other guy is OP.

Roughly describes what’s OP and what’s not OP…
The goal of this thread is to generate a list of everything that’s not OP…
It seems it VERY EASY to generate a list of what’s OP (look at other posts)…

So… So far:
Med Guardians
P/P weapon set for Thieves
Rangers
Eles

They don’t have to be UP, just not OP…
Seems like a pretty short list so far…

then gf dumped me cuz ladder,
all is vein

• * sprays the thread with fire extinguisher… *
  :| you guys almost made the flames go up…

So far, only ele… unknown build isn’t OP…

Just curious, which builds aren’t OP and aren’t cheesy (or buttery… replace the cheese with butter! start the movement today).
This is not a thread for people to cry “PLEASE FIX BUILD X ON CLASS Y”…
This is not a thread for people to say “PLEASE NERF BUILD X ON CLASS Y”…
(there are TONS of those, look at any other post…)
I’m just purely curious which builds aren’t cheesy or OP, for every class… Try to be as specific as possible…

Generally don’t care about PvE, as majority of “OP” cries are coming from WvW and PvP… which is understandable…

But then again, knowing that this is the an internet forum… and that there’s been a lot of crying… this will most likely become a flame/cry thread…

Spyder.9713:

Im tired of being cheese, why cant I be lettuce, tomato, or even a pickle??

I already proposed to change it to butter…
That build is so buttery…
Thieves are running buttery builds…
Stop buttering me….

Seriously… we should change it to butter… :\ Cream works too, just it’s too suggestive…

I guess if it’s not one warrior being the weakness to a warrior… than I guess…
TWO Warriors
is the true weakness to a warrior.

Dear Santa,
All I wish for Christmas, is for this game to be easier to play. I don’t want to roll another character because I’m not too good at this one and I still enjoy playing it. And I don’t want to improve because I don’t think I can, it hurts when I try, and it’s not fun. So I’m writing you this letter in hopes that you make this game a bit easier for me.
Sincerely,
Zero Day
P.S. I used the coal you got me last time to heat my house, thanks for that, very thoughtful.

Fortus.6175:

You cant give one class all the best tools for survival regardless of stats, give it the best single target damage and then allow it to take anybody else’s role and call it a day.

Yup… this is my last post in this thread…

:| We should….
Use the word…
BUTTER
Like that build is so buttery…

Maugetarr.6823:

What: Consume Plasma
Why: Thieves are not designed to get boons. Getting boons makes them OP.

Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/sPvP-Consume-Plasma-Overpowered/first#post3588687

And i was wondering what other sources of stability we had… clearly too much…

If this is some sort of cry that thief isn’t easy… it’s not going to work :/ … Believe me, somewhere in this post someone will say something along the lines that thief is just all cheese no skill facerolling permastealth OP class….

Though I think it doesn’t apply only specifically to a thief, it more applies to the gamer themselves, as they slowly become your last point on the list (a predator like mentality). Because all of that, the skill (I guess analytical?) behind it can be carried into other game genres like FPS (pathing people are likely to take, places likely to hide, likely reactions) and MOBA (league of legends, watching what items they have, how they behave(are they afraid of you? are they acting suspecious(ganks?)),watching the map were people are going…)

:| I see you guys are still looking for a tank and a healer in this thread… best of luck…

The true weakness is….
another warrior!

DeceiverX.8361:

Seeing as the initiative change was called a “buff,” I do not want to know what’s coming next, honestly.

Well, a MASSIVE nerf to chocking gass (40% reduction, so it’s MASSIVE considering 33% buff was MASSIVE).

Zoltreez.6435:

they nerfing Shortbow ?

realy ?

REALY ?

the only weapon that is useable from walls even with its phatetic range ?

REALY ?

dmg wasnt that good in the 1st place yet elementalists vyping small zergs with rain fire or how does it called ?

They already nerfed it’s range, at least cluster bomb… :/ so you can’t really do that unless they’re almost directly under you…
They’re nerfing choking gas’ poison duration next….
But yeah, constant and consistent nerfs every patch. With some “buffs” (some really MASSIVE…), just so we can’t say that all they do is nerf us….
Too bad you weren’t here when they were previewing releasing the new healing skills… it was a total kitten-show

Nick.6972:

Buying Precursor from TP is sure legendary.

It’s a legendary amount of gold!

Mordecai.6318:

‘Cheese’ is a term used most commonly by scrubs who either A.) feel or act above using specific weapons/runesets/builds, etc. B.) don’t play to win

I have been called out on using ‘cheese’ setups on virtually every thief set/build imaginable. It literally does not matter what I play.

100% true. Welcome to the world of thieves. Get used to it, getting mad will just waste your own nerves not theirs.

Wait till you also encounter perma-something….
dat cheesy permastealth xD

Lindbur.2537:

There’s nothing legendary about randomness.

Except for… Legendary Randomness!

@OP – Honestly though, even if the mats were worth ~500… at the very least it would feel more progressive than flipping TP and watching gold grow in your bag…. Don’t know at least that would be for me.

Constant nerfs? That must mean you’re part of the thief club. welcome, we have stealth thus we’re OP.

BlackBeard.2873:

Sublimatio.6981:

In my opinion, thief is the most constantly nerfed class.

I think its funny that every thief thinks this, and can even give you a LONG list of nerfs that have happened. However, they conveniently ignore some of the MAJOR buffs that happen at the same time that have conveniently kept thieves as meta-defining and nearly mandatory on all teams without fail. This is because ANet is worried about over-nerfing one of the most popular professions, and REFUSE to do what they did to the Ele to the thief.

There are STILL thief builds that are outputting way more damage given the survivability they have, and can achieve evasion for nearly 15s constantly while doing good damage by using the appropriate skills/dodges. That is INSANE.

Also, mesmers have some aspects that hold them back, but some aspects that are so unreasonably good that they are in a strange place. Some things NEED a nerf, while other things need a buff.

Lol…. Oh god, I hope that’s sarcasm…. It’s really funny . You must be sarcastic and mean to imply warriors instead of thieves . Right?

insaneseagull.7063:

Zero Day.2594:

Did Burnfall share the stuff that he’s on?

what? xD

You know… the herbal medicine….

Did Burnfall share the stuff that he’s on?

What: Frontstab
Why: It’s a OP ability that’s not widely known. When you backstab the target from the front (in their face), it’s a frontstab… but the name says backstab, you shouldn’t be able to frontstab people. It’s so OP that it not only kills the character, but the user playing the character, hence this ability isn’t widely known.

Aberrant.6749:

RyuDragnier.9476:

I AM a thief in WvW, I know the positionings well. I work in a way to where I’m only getting frontstabbed. But since it’s always by GC thieves, the damage is always pretty heavy. It’s annoying however to see them stealth again in 3 seconds to do it again, and for the process to repeat around 10 times a minute. That’s just levels of BS annoying that isn’t fun. At least Warriors can’t spam Killshot or Eviscerate that much.

You’re getting killed by frontstabs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT49R7Ffxzg

:| kitten , frontstabs… i bet that’s going to be the next OP thing on the list…

Ha! two balance patches since …. and:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Pvp-Thief-S-D-thief-is-still-too-strong
:D !

ryan.6217:

I’m confused? Are people MORE mad at zerker thieves or condi thieves? If i start playing giver’s thief will people not be mad at me? or will they be MORE mad at that in the end?

Neither, it’s the fact you’re playing a thief that makes people mad… dat evade and dat stealth OP…. dat damage too

The core issue is: I can’t come up to you and press F to loot you. I need to mush 1 a few times and possibly move because you move. OP

Raine.1394:

Zero Day.2594:

Raine.1394:

Zero Day.2594:

Raine.1394:

Zero Day.2594:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

LFM healer
LFM healer
LFM healer…..
….

(Healer found, tank got impatient and left…)

LFM tank
LFM tank
LFM tank

I’m leveling a monk in WoW as we speak and queuing for dungeons as they open up. I have never once spammed chat for healers or tanks. I use the excellent LFG tool and it does all the work. It takes far less time to put a group together under the trinity than it does in GW2. I’m averaging 3 minute queues as DPS. This is a marketing BS to sell a system other than the trinity and it simply isn’t true.

Yeah with the LFG tool sure.
Wait till you start pugging raids, or raiding in general… enjoy the BS there. There’s LOADS of it. (And I mean, even if you get into a guild and get a constant raid spot, think about your position in the guild in relation to guild leader/raiders and those that are not… there’s loads of social (and drama) bullkitten aside from just class roles).

3 minute queues… that’s cute. It’s instant for a tank and/or healer. Wait till you hit max lvl… lol…

Yeah, it’s cheating with a functional LFG tool, right? The only raids I pug for are LFR raids at max level and that’s pretty much the experience I just described. I have 6 max level characters in WoW and 15 in GW2. When you are max level and doing flex or normal raids it’s by far preferable to do them with a guild. Bottom line, the trinity doesn’t add anything problematic to the player experience. It’s a myth that’s accepted and promulgated by inexperienced players.

Don’t know… know last time I queued for LFR on my rogue (a week ago) the wait was 25minutes – 30 minutes… but LFR is LFR (looking for kittens), hardest part is having the nerve to sit through it…. Anyways…
I would argue that the trinity is one of the core problems with WoW… You said to do flex or normal raids you need a guild. How do you get a spot in a raid group? Usually how many DPS are there in a guild vs tanks/healers? What happens when on a raid night the healer or tank doesn’t show up? How fast can you get a replacement tank/healer compared to a DPS?
Even in an LFR or a dungeon, what happens when a tank (or both tanks) leave, can the group keep going? Assuming it’s a dungeon, if one dps leaves, can the group go on rather smoothly without them?

No, I didn’t say you needed a guild for flex, normal, heroic, I said it was preferable. Why would you want to pug this content? Honestly, I can’t remember the last time a tank left an instance. It has happened but it’s not anything that shapes the experience. And, if a tank or healer leaves they are, as you say, replaced immediately. If a dps leaves, of course they are replaced immediately. It’s a non-issue.

Fair enough, preferably do flex/normal/heroics with guild… But what’s one of the issues with pugging? (Aside from kittens joining)… could it be finding tanks and healers is time consuming?
Define immediately….
My immediately means roughly 0-20 seconds…
Maybe for a healer it’s close to immediately for a tank it’s usually not immediately…
At least by my standards…

bobomb.5209:

Zero Day.2594:

[Thief ]

• Hard to Catch [Trait] – Bad design.
• Back Fighting [Trait] – ?

Could you possibly explain why Hard to Catch is bad design? And do you know what back fighting is? I assume that you don’t since you used a question mark for it’s explanation as to why it’s worthless.

Hard to Catch can teleport you INTO enemies (effectively making it Easier to Catch, never mind the possible other bad placements). This one, a lot of people can argue that it’s bad.

Back Fighting, that’s just a personal thing, it’s like they couldn’t come up with anything else so they said “Hey let’s increase the damage when the thief is downed”. Plus I don’t think the trait competes with any other traits in terms of what of which to take and which is more useful. Arguably in a 1v1 scenario it might help… but how often is there a 1v1 scenario, or are there any 1v1 modes? Roaming (really?)? (Same can be said about Hard to Catch)
(http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Back_Fighting)

Raine.1394:

Zero Day.2594:

Raine.1394:

Zero Day.2594:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

LFM healer
LFM healer
LFM healer…..
….

(Healer found, tank got impatient and left…)

LFM tank
LFM tank
LFM tank

I’m leveling a monk in WoW as we speak and queuing for dungeons as they open up. I have never once spammed chat for healers or tanks. I use the excellent LFG tool and it does all the work. It takes far less time to put a group together under the trinity than it does in GW2. I’m averaging 3 minute queues as DPS. This is a marketing BS to sell a system other than the trinity and it simply isn’t true.

Yeah with the LFG tool sure.
Wait till you start pugging raids, or raiding in general… enjoy the BS there. There’s LOADS of it. (And I mean, even if you get into a guild and get a constant raid spot, think about your position in the guild in relation to guild leader/raiders and those that are not… there’s loads of social (and drama) bullkitten aside from just class roles).

3 minute queues… that’s cute. It’s instant for a tank and/or healer. Wait till you hit max lvl… lol…

Yeah, it’s cheating with a functional LFG tool, right? The only raids I pug for are LFR raids at max level and that’s pretty much the experience I just described. I have 6 max level characters in WoW and 15 in GW2. When you are max level and doing flex or normal raids it’s by far preferable to do them with a guild. Bottom line, the trinity doesn’t add anything problematic to the player experience. It’s a myth that’s accepted and promulgated by inexperienced players.

Don’t know… know last time I queued for LFR on my rogue (a week ago) the wait was 25minutes – 30 minutes… but LFR is LFR (looking for kittens), hardest part is having the nerve to sit through it…. Anyways…
I would argue that the trinity is one of the core problems with WoW… You said to do flex or normal raids you need a guild. How do you get a spot in a raid group? Usually how many DPS are there in a guild vs tanks/healers? What happens when on a raid night the healer or tank doesn’t show up? How fast can you get a replacement tank/healer compared to a DPS?
Even in an LFR or a dungeon, what happens when a tank (or both tanks) leave, can the group keep going? Assuming it’s a dungeon, if one dps leaves, can the group go on rather smoothly without them?
I don’t think you realize how there’s a heavy reliance on tanks and healers (1-2 people in case of a tank) vs importance/reliance on DPS.

Have you tried… Guardian?
They’re similar to warriors a bit, plus they have a ranged cleave auto attack (staff).

Ele? Necro? Engineer?