Guild Wars 2

Burnfall.9573:

Zero Day.2594:

Burnfall.9573:

Zero Day.2594:

Burnfall.9573:

Zero Day.2594:

Burnfall.9573:

…
And as a Forsaken Ranger, it would give us more reason to feel alive and loved again.

Ha! We now know his motives…
He’s having a hard time on his ranger against thieves.

1 year and 5 months+ , yes

I don’t mind you being happy, seriously i don’t

Each time i get killed by thieves, they would always dance on my innocent body

even my pet laughs at me. What’s the point of getting angry?

So you would agree that, the changes you propose and support stem from the fact you yourself are having a hard time against a thief? And you assume others are too (and yeah some are, don’t get me wrong, you’re not a lone)? So what motivates you to be so vocal about thief nerf/changes/re-designs is to ease your game play and presumably others like you out there as well?

very much yes. I mean, i don’t want to feel cheap game play but challenging. The ranger class is the only class in the game that is forced to work 10X more when fighting thieves, and that’s not right at all.

So really, in the end, it’s not about balancing the game as a whole, it’s balancing the game around you (and like minded people) and what you considering “challenging”? Is there any consideration about the thief players? Or should we just consider non-thief players?

You took advantage of me

i thought you were the good guy, now you’re turning against me?

It’s in the name.

Hey, don’t get me wrong, you’re still cool and you have awesome posts…
Just yeah, we’re not exactly on the same side (don’t know if you knew that or not…)… I’m a bit more about balance (with slight bias towards thieves…), while I agree there should be some countermeasure to stealth (for instance every class having a force reveal of some sort), I would also like thieves to have more survivability going in toe-to-toe combat (without stealth, and/or when the countermeasures take place) and also more roles in WvW aside from roaming (and hopefully this will open up builds/roles in PvE too)… Rangers working x10 harder, well not sure how many times, but they do seem to need a buff, at least from what I can gather (same kitten is happening with rangers as with thieves), and if they do get a buff, great! What I hate and despise is, people that can’t adapt against an opponent and are waiting for a nerf or a change… Before the hammer warriors got nerfed, I was get rolled in sPvP by them if i would get caught in their stun.. All i thought was “kitten, these guys are strong, I will die if i get caught… gotta rethink before i engage one of them, might be better to do something else”… I realized and accepted that I would most likely not win against one but instead of going to the warriors forum and QQ’ing, i just ignored them and made decisions to avoid them in combat… carried on happly… (and surprisingly they were nerfed a bit Dec10)… When I engage in a zerg v zerg and die to all the conditions, stuns, and kitten… I don’t go and say “kitten IT, WARRIORS OP NERF NEXT PATCH PLEASE” or “NECROS TOO MUCH AOE NERF NEXT PATCH PLEASE”… I hope instead that there would be a buff to thieves so they could be a bit more robust (not kittening invulnerable superman) in zerg v zerg engagments, so that we could have another role besides roaming and standing on walls… But while hoping i still modify what I do in zerg v zerg engagements, instead i try to play a bit safer, or i try to clean up after the zerg… Regarding thief nerfs, yeah sure we can adapt into something else each time they hit us, but it’s anouying and rather painfull being hit each time… It’s not so much as “good thieves will always find a way to adapt and play” (w/e sundalesk said and keeps saying) it’s more like everyone can do that, some just have less tolerance to being hit all the kitten time (having high tolerance isn’t a good thing either, it’s neither) and still attempting to play with a smile. (There’s a magnitude of this that should be fixed/done to the thief, I can’t capture them all in this post (or retain them in my head). Personally, I don’t have any nerf requests for any class).

TL/DR: You’re lazy since you didn’t read what’s above.

Burnfall.9573:

Zero Day.2594:

Burnfall.9573:

Zero Day.2594:

Burnfall.9573:

…
And as a Forsaken Ranger, it would give us more reason to feel alive and loved again.

Ha! We now know his motives…
He’s having a hard time on his ranger against thieves.

1 year and 5 months+ , yes

I don’t mind you being happy, seriously i don’t

Each time i get killed by thieves, they would always dance on my innocent body

even my pet laughs at me. What’s the point of getting angry?

So you would agree that, the changes you propose and support stem from the fact you yourself are having a hard time against a thief? And you assume others are too (and yeah some are, don’t get me wrong, you’re not a lone)? So what motivates you to be so vocal about thief nerf/changes/re-designs is to ease your game play and presumably others like you out there as well?

very much yes. I mean, i don’t want to feel cheap game play but challenging. The ranger class is the only class in the game that is forced to work 10X more when fighting thieves, and that’s not right at all.

So really, in the end, it’s not about balancing the game as a whole, it’s balancing the game around you (and like minded people) and what you considering “challenging”? Is there any consideration about the thief players? Or should we just consider non-thief players?

(Sorry for hijacking the topic xD )

Static.9841:

What: Thief players eyes.
Why: If I can’t see them, neither should they!

Just do this:

vrannar.5618:

The majority of people play computer games to see content and a lot of people want to defeat the hardest content. In GW2 that means high level fractals (Although they aren’t that hard). In order to defeat the highest level fractal (currently 50) you need a lot of AR.
In order to get that AR you need to grind for ascended gear, or use minimal ascended gear with infusions that have been stacked, which require a substantial investment in gold. Takes some grinding (Or at least some gem buying), to get that gold.

Yeah falls into 1st types saying “Yeah you only need ascended gear in fracts, you don’t need it anywhere else, so don’t worry”

Burnfall.9573:

Zero Day.2594:

Burnfall.9573:

…
And as a Forsaken Ranger, it would give us more reason to feel alive and loved again.

Ha! We now know his motives…
He’s having a hard time on his ranger against thieves.

1 year and 5 months+ , yes

I don’t mind you being happy, seriously i don’t

Each time i get killed by thieves, they would always dance on my innocent body

even my pet laughs at me. What’s the point of getting angry?

So you would agree that, the changes you propose and support stem from the fact you yourself are having a hard time against a thief? And you assume others are too (and yeah some are, don’t get me wrong, you’re not a lone)? So what motivates you to be so vocal about thief nerf/changes/re-designs is to ease your game play and presumably others like you out there as well?

@OP
You’re gonna get two types of people.

1st type that says “you can do everything in exotic/yellow/non-max”… that it’s all cool don’t worry…

2nd That says “yeah it’s unfair because this game has become a gear grind”… reason as to why it’s to gear grind is either “it was never supposed to be like this” or “well the added few %/stats points does make a difference”

Psuedo-3rd type “Oh yeah, this grind is nothing, I’ve grinded 9001hours in another game just to get ONE piece of gear… yeah that’s grind baby… this is nothing… NOTHING I tell YOU”

This basically summarizes everyone. I, myself, are in the 2nd group, because of the quote from Chris before this game was released:
“Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions…"
(Sorry for holding on to it, and I know I will get flamed by the 1st types that it wasn’t set in stone and it wasn’t a promise so on)
Basically that, and another reason that stems from that is it’s hard to change gear and thus you become less likely to change spec and so the game will become slowly more boring…

Manuelito.6081:

snow.8097:

critical damage changes

okay i try to see the whole Picture
in earlier Posts some devs said they try to do something against the berserk meta in PvE. Thats okay.
But now i have the fear, that this changes will also be there in PvP.
Everyone knows that the actual PvP meta is all in all Condition. With Changes in Crit Dmg that will probably a nerf we will see a push of condition builds as consequence.
So i really hope that the crit dmg changes will be pve/WvW only

When we are talking about this “berserk” dominance We have to refer to dungeons/fractals only, I suppose.
If the changes affect so much the results in dungeons/fractals to change gear…well, good luck with keeping players in this game, IMHO.

But that’s the idea of content release… To make you chase that Ascended carrot again…

Burnfall.9573:

…
And as a Forsaken Ranger, it would give us more reason to feel alive and loved again.

Ha! We now know his motives…
He’s having a hard time on his ranger against thieves.

Fungalfoot.7213:

This thread makes it really obvious that they should have stuck to the idea of a cosmetic only gear grind instead of kittening around with stats. Now if zerker ends up nerfed they’re going to have to deal with a throng of angry people demanding new stats. What a mess.

I would agree. I mean stats in gear makes changing builds a bit of a mess (that’s just one massive downside)… plus yeah kitten like this where they are probably going to change stat numbers…
But some people won’t agree.

Excalibur.9748:

Interceptor.2653:

Excalibur.9748:

They deleted my legit quit thread in like 30 minutes. Looks like they’re pretty efficient when it comes to damage control.

Yeah, they are pretty good at deleting things that are against the rules that you need to agree to in order to post here. That’s partially because there are people like me who take advantage of the easy reporting tool that they provide.

WTH dude, why would you report it, I just wanna know how many thieves quit after the Dec.10 path, and why. It’s a tally for informational purpose only.

PS noone likes a snitch

He must have snitched on Tupac…

OMG

(btw, it’s a joke, laugh when you read it… Hey it’s the internet, gotta make these disclaimers(For the general forum readers… not anyone specific))

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Zero Day.2594:

So yeah… better idea is to introduce a new stat for that… but that’s too big.

The base would be 10% and then any added on Toughness via traits, gear, weapons, accessories would increase it. So you pretty much ignore what every class starts with Toughness wise as no matter how high or how low it is, it would always be 10%

I think something similar to how Precision into Crit Chance would work for the required Toughness for 1% Condition damage reduction.

Though, lets be honest, we wont get EITHER conditions will just be left alone and left to grow ever more powerful…

MMMMMM you’re still not getting me… As far as i know classes don’t start(naked) with toughness … if they do they probably are balanced… that’s irrelevant… we can say everyone starts with 100, or 20 or 10 or 0… doesnt matter if the next bit is true…

However as soon as they equip gear (as you mentioned) the light/medium/heavy categories do start to matter, and what I keep mentioning in my previous posts applies. If you look at say for example CoF gear:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Citadel_of_Flame_armor
Notice the armor/defense ratings are different. This is what I was talking. If you base it off of those, then again, what I’ve mentioned previously will apply and it will only be a buff to two out of the three armor classes.
I would even argue for weapons.. unless the sum of the resistance in 1hand+offhand = 2hander.

If by gear you mean runes… then yeah sure… that again goes into how those new runes will be designed.

But yeah… we wont get either :P … instead… crit dmg nerf! WOOT WOOT! i’m psyched… I can’t wait for the chaos to happen…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

How so? Everyone would start at 10% and then get more by taking more Toughness. Though i think a better solution would be a new stat that would perform the same way but wouldnt be connected to Physical damage reduction

Zero Day.2594:

Buff to everyone… slightly..
necro/ele/mesmers – wont be getting a buff since they’re at the lowest base armor/toughness… they would have to invest into something that makes them more “tough” thus sacrificing something for it.
thieves/rangers/engies – a slight buff, since they’re the 2nd lowest base armor, won’t be taking as much damage as necro/ele/mesmers… still to become a bit more tougher they would need to invest…
warrior/guardians – a buff, since they’re the the highest base armor, they can invest to become even tougher but they wouldn’t have to, since they would be say as tough as mediums investing a bit and lights investing a lot.
That’s kinda without numbers and very general… but yeah something like that would happen.

The illusion of it being a buff to everyone including the light armors would be that they see lower condition numbers, however… (With anything additional, aside from toughness from armor/gear, to make it simplier), Conditions ticking (doing damage) on a light armor wearer would be the maximum that conditions can tick for, while on the heavy it’s the minimum. Thus only mediums (slight) and heavies got a buff, for lights it wasn’t a buff at all.

Unless i’m not understand you, that you take
10% reduction + f(toughness)

So, for exotics, the base light armor would have 920, medium 1064, heavy 1211 (for the example the numbers don’t matter so much as light<medium<heavy because of base armor)…
Thus
10% + f(920) < 10% + f(1064) < 10% + f(1211)
which is
light < medium < heavy
And for the fun of it, let’s give precentages (again numbers dont matter so much as who’s higher):
33% < 50% < 66%

Right now, lets say that any condition damages for a max of 100/sec… regardless of any armor/reduction.
But with the reduction it will be:
66 > 50 > 33

So, the maximum damage for conditions will be 66/sec on a light target, min dmg would be 33 on a heavy.
The max dmg now becomes almost like a baseline… by that i mean
Mediums will recieve 16/sec less damage, while heavies will recieve 33/sec less damage… however the light armor will recieve the max 66/sec. Now let’s say our memories are whiped clean by someting from the MiB, and we don’t remember 100/sec, Light armor is recieving maximum damage while other armor classes are recieving less. True those armor classes got buffed, but light armor didnt. The ability to increase one’s armor/% will vary but will be aviable to all, on average the top will be true though.
Don’t know if that makes sense or not… i can try to clarify (when i’m back).

So yeah… better idea is to introduce a new stat for that… but that’s too big.

Kande.1930:

And after I just finished getting zerker gear for my S/P thief..devs decide they want to change crit dmg…

It’s okay, maybe in a few months they will nerf something again and crit dmg will become viable again. (Or along the same lines…) (Yes, we don’t know that it’s a nerf yet…)

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What i meant was that the % reduction would be balanced in a way that every class at level 80 would have the same reduction, this would mean the lower armor classes would need a higher base reduction to counter the fact they have less Toughness.

So basically, come level 80 every class has say 10% Condition Damage Reduction and then adding more and more Toughness would increase that.
…

Right there, that’s the thing I was talking about how heavies would get buffed, mediums would receive a slight buff and lights wouldn’t get buffed…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Zero Day.2594:

Buff to everyone… slightly..
necro/ele/mesmers – wont be getting a buff since they’re at the lowest base armor/toughness… they would have to invest into something that makes them more “tough” thus sacrificing something for it.
thieves/rangers/engies – a slight buff, since they’re the 2nd lowest base armor, won’t be taking as much damage as necro/ele/mesmers… still to become a bit more tougher they would need to invest…
warrior/guardians – a buff, since they’re the the highest base armor, they can invest to become even tougher but they wouldn’t have to, since they would be say as tough as mediums investing a bit and lights investing a lot.
That’s kinda without numbers and very general… but yeah something like that would happen.

The illusion of it being a buff to everyone including the light armors would be that they see lower condition numbers, however… (With anything additional, aside from toughness from armor/gear, to make it simplier), Conditions ticking (doing damage) on a light armor wearer would be the maximum that conditions can tick for, while on the heavy it’s the minimum.

I would say the % reduction would be different across the classes so that at level 80, no traits, armor, accessories, weapons, runes or anything they would have have the same base % reduction and then it would be how you built, what stats you took, what trait lines you went into and such.

That’s a bit confusing, if you mean that everyone would get the same reduction at 80 regardless of which armor category they fall into would mean that there would have to be another stat added to the game (say Resistance (popular in most RPG’s))…
As soon as you add the befinites of what armor category they fall into, it’s becomes the same thing I’ve mentioned.
I wouldn’t mind having another stat, though, what would I have to sacrifice (what other stat? Toughness? Health?) in order to increase it? And this is where we should stop because, it would get into talking about how it’s implemented, what kind of runes… what kind of trait-lines/traits… what are the trade-offs… how it effects class X… how it effects class X vs Y vs Z…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Zero Day.2594:

Are you a warrior main…?

God no One class that i tried about 9 months ago and hated it. Just curious as to why you would think that? surely this would be a BUFF to EVERYONE’S defense if this sort of change happened.

Buff to everyone… slightly..
necro/ele/mesmers – wont be getting a buff since they’re at the lowest base armor/toughness… they would have to invest into something that makes them more “tough” thus sacrificing something for it.
thieves/rangers/engies – a slight buff, since they’re the 2nd lowest base armor, won’t be taking as much damage as necro/ele/mesmers… still to become a bit more tougher they would need to invest…
warrior/guardians – a buff, since they’re the the highest base armor, they can invest to become even tougher but they wouldn’t have to, since they would be say as tough as mediums investing a bit and lights investing a lot.
That’s kinda without numbers and very general… but yeah something like that would happen.

The illusion of it being a buff to everyone including the light armors would be that they see lower condition numbers, however… (With anything additional, aside from toughness from armor/gear, to make it simplier), Conditions ticking (doing damage) on a light armor wearer would be the maximum that conditions can tick for, while on the heavy it’s the minimum. Thus only mediums (slight) and heavies got a buff, for lights it wasn’t a buff at all.

evilapprentice.6379:

Karolis.4261:

evilapprentice.6379:

godofcows.2451:

how about we all just wait first and react afterwards when details have been given?

I’m worried by how many posts I had to scroll through until someone said this.

Cause we are panicking! I myself dont even know the source of crid damage nerf.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Balance-Developer-Livestream-on-Friday-at-2pm-PST/first#post3501152

There is no source for “Crit damage nerf” – they are exploring “Critical Damage Changes” which could mean anything.

Some pointed out in that post that numbers either increase or decrease… I don’t think they can change colors…

Also even if crit damage numbers stay the same, just more mathematical functions/constraints are added to compute the end damage… more then likely it will be lower than before.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What they could do – Make Condition damage just like Physical damage with a reduction on damage based on on much Toughness the target has.

Are you a warrior main…?

Karolis.4261:

Zero Day.2594:

Excalibur.9748:

most thieves will probably still go full zerk so it’s a thief nerf as usual

Indirectly, but not exactly specifically directed at the thief. We more than likely will suffer this coming patch though, at the very least because of the general crit-dmg nerf.

And i want to repeat myself once again now. Crit power must stay. Precision effect on crit chance must be lowered (that is if they want to reduce berserker builds domination in pve by messing around with crits). That would even make thieves and warriors dps somewhat closer since warrior wouldnt be able to crit so much and thief would still be able to crit with hidden killer trait, which now is useless in zerker pve with 100 % crit chance.

If by crit power you mean crit damage, then that’s getting changed.
If by Precision effect on crit chance must be lowered you just mean crit chance, then that’s not getting changed.
At least from what they about what they will talk about… specifically saying “Critical Damage”…

Excalibur.9748:

most thieves will probably still go full zerk so it’s a thief nerf as usual

Indirectly, but not exactly specifically directed at the thief. We more than likely will suffer this coming patch though, at the very least because of the general crit-dmg nerf.

NinjaEd.3946:

Swimfan.8014:

Yup, we’re OP and that’s why 90% of any player you pass bein’ a warrior

Thiefs, guys, thiefs are every….. uhm ne no wait, they’re not.

What ppl think to be “unfair” is our high dps because they don’t (f*cing) get that we play the maybe most risky class in game. We go into melee with the least HP and just medium armor?!

With no aegis, or protection, or invulnerability, or burst heals.

BUT! We have stealth thus we’re OP. I win the argument simply because I used stealth to justify that we’re OP.
If you complain about anything else that we might not have, you’re wrong because we have stealth and thus we’re OP and don’t need anything else.
If you complain about anything being unfair towards thieves, you’re wrong because we have stealth and actually it’s unfair towards anyone else that isn’t a thief.

(sarcasm/mockery – Since some people don’t pick up on it… Basically if you look at anyone arguing against thieves in any sort of form or shape, they bring up stealth to justify what they’re saying (it might not be in the first post… but down the road they will pull that card out))

NinjaEd.3946:

Is it possible we won’t see any thing change on thief? Granted the initiative change wasn’t horrible but sword got pimp slapped, lets make a campaign against all thief changes, just let us die slowly, no sense to pull the plug.

As for sigil/rune changes, You have my full attention, plan to tune in even if I’m at work. Soo much potential with some runes, dying to try new things out.

Yeah… no… think about it, how do backstab glass cannons work..? At the very least that will hurt a bit.

Nova.8021:

…
Also since berserker gear affects different classes in many ways there will be horrible imbalances. Classes already behind the power curve will be really behind, and classes on top will still be on top, but by less of a margin.
…

THIS, the words in bold…

It’s too hard to learn to play, easier to cry for a nerf.

At the very least, wait till Friday, because of this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Balance-Developer-Livestream-on-Friday-at-2pm-PST

Josh Davis.6015:

…
In this episode we’ll be talking about a few of the things the Skills and Balance team is working on for the next balance update, including:

• Runes and sigil rework
• Critical damage changes
  …

(Man the forums are slow today…)

Viking Jorun.5413:

Will there be movement to make no-stealth thieves a viable option in adding build diversity to the class?

No….
But! There might be a Crit damage nerf … aren’t you excited… I can’t wait to find out which part of the thief gets nerfed this patch.
Let’s hope the nerf wish list comes true

Hopefully, what can be taken away from this post for the devs/QQ-er’s is:
Nerfing/Making a change on stealth itself will require a lot of other changes (arguably more than what OP mentions).

Then again… who am I kidding… doubt either care.

lordkrall.7241:

…
There will never be enough content to satisfy the rushers after all.

Unless! They time gate it!
Much content
no grind
so fun

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

blah blah blah blah

I’m confused. Were you not whining about the Thief all along?
…

Yup I wasn’t, I was being sarcastic…

You’re bad at being sarcastic

:\ It’s not exactly me… You can’t pick up the tone of voice on the internet…. plus I forgot the (sarcasm) brackets…

Little do these QQ’ers know…. they have yet to experience the hidden skills that are truly OP that the thief has…. (Twisting Fangs, Repeater, Stab) Some even say they’ve one shotted warriors with these skills…

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

blah blah blah blah

I’m confused. Were you not whining about the Thief all along?
…

Yup I wasn’t, I was being sarcastic…

I believe that was the attempt with ascended gear/mats that you would make a profit selling that part….

LOL for those that got their ascended gear sets xD
ahhh good one ANet

Shockwave.1230:

I still have an open question as to how the Thief would be equally compensated for a significant straight nerf like this.

No one thinks about that when they’re QQ"ing for a nerf…
Yeah I kind want to hear what kind of compensation the thief would get in terms of survivability, should this nerf go through…
Aza, got any ideas?

Lol sucks for those that wear ascended xD ~ GJ ANet

Karolis.4261:

And you point is ? Second day in a row some spvp kid comes here crying about some weird kitten.

:| I’m not even sure what he wants… Sure doesn’t look like a nerf to thieves… yet he’s QQ’ing on a thieves forum….

Zacchary.6183:

A thief nerf thread with suggestions to improve thief survivability? Absurd.

ikr?

Hence I’m not going to add this thread to the nerf-wish list, since it’s not actually QQ’ing.

In a 8v8 game expecting a 2v1 scenario…

Don’t get me wrong, warriors are OP and everything…
But what exactly are you trying to get at here? Why you QQ?

Viking Jorun.5413:

As a non-stealth thief, I would be very happy with these changes…

>.>
<.<

:)

yeah you would …
hence it won’t happen

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

thief cant do dmg while evading tho…. not sure how the advantage is so good its “OP”. its like stealth.

funny how nobody has ever complained about SB 3 or evades since day 1 beta….yet finally that stealth perma is nerfed…its onto the next thing.

The key thing here is: preventing him from getting a kill. That’s the issue…

what do you mean? you think it should be a nerf? or youthink he is just whining L2P issue?

L2P mainly.

(Can’t say more because I might get an infraction. It’s not directed at OP either, more like QQ in general…)

i agree. if u look at other classes. how many times can they pop aegis? block? invuln? almost full protection uptime?

could u imagine if thief had full protection uptime? non thieves are crippled by anet bc they go thru the game just taking on 5-8 mobs at the sametime and never have to press evade or heal. then they have it innately ingrained into their minds and wonder why thieves SEEM so OP. its bc they never have to evade.

dungeons. Fractals. PVE. farming. and about 95% of the time you are in wvw….many classes never have to really worry about their HP. that is the true problem.

The true problem is willing to learn and adapt, learning to fight in general(I don’t mean winning or beating someone, but PvPing in it’s entirety) (mainly mean WvW/sPvP)… also realizing that no fight is fair… as opposed to hoping that they nerf something on some kittening day… because hey, maybe they will maybe they won’t… you can’t really do much about it either.

I have a feeling that those QQ’ing a lot, were at some point total PvE carebears and are just taking their first steps into PvP’ing in general…

That’s probably the “high-level”/deep issue with the QQ-ers…
Low level/surface issue is that thief has skills and mechanics that some people don’t like…

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

thief cant do dmg while evading tho…. not sure how the advantage is so good its “OP”. its like stealth.

funny how nobody has ever complained about SB 3 or evades since day 1 beta….yet finally that stealth perma is nerfed…its onto the next thing.

The key thing here is: preventing him from getting a kill. That’s the issue…

what do you mean? you think it should be a nerf? or youthink he is just whining L2P issue?

L2P mainly.

(Can’t say more because I might get an infraction. It’s not directed at OP either, more like QQ in general…)

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

…
Stop feeling like you are entitled to victory.

PvP/WvW is not a single player game, and you are not the main hero.

That’s like… telling them that Santa isn’t real… Or that the world doesn’t revolve around them… man… don’t be a kitten/puppy (the female dog version of a kitten…)…

Also, for those of you who want to post up a nerf, please submit it to the nerf wish list, you can find a link to it in my signature. It’s to keep the forums clean and to make it easier for devs to see all the needed nerfs.

Travlane.5948:

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

thief cant do dmg while evading tho…. not sure how the advantage is so good its “OP”. its like stealth.

funny how nobody has ever complained about SB 3 or evades since day 1 beta….yet finally that stealth perma is nerfed…its onto the next thing.

The key thing here is: preventing him from getting a kill. That’s the issue…

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

The problem I have with the GW2 community is this sick addiction to attempting to rationalize why thieves “need” nerfs.

Thieves were designed as high DPS/low survivability BECAUSE of stealth, and our class has already been kittened with a million times. Get over it or go play a different game.

Welcome to every game that has had a rogue class in it.

Travlane.5948:

eww no. u forget…just like i said above. stealth cannot be changed til our base HP is moved up and some more defensive boons are added. without stealth…we need those. period. and i consider 10 sec revealed having no stealth.

Yeah, essentially, he’s manipulating stealth so we don’t depend on it… but he’s leaving all of what you mentioned out…

And if and when those things do get addressed, stealth will take a nerf most likely.

frans.8092:

Niels.5396:

… it pains me to see people playing thief that evade endlessly. …

What are they doing when they are evading?

they’re evading his attacks… duh… preventing him from getting a kill !

Sanduskel.1850:

way too overpowered. sorry/.

For once, I agree with him. But at the same time sure…
Also, essentially you’re making the class depend less on stealth by bringing all the benifiets of stealth while being stealthless… roughly.

What’s likely to happen out of your whole post is:

TheGuy.3568:

…
Reveal should be buffed to 10 seconds and stealth should last no longer than 3 seconds in exchange.
…

Everything else is very unlikely.

Also, trav is right, we’re still going to have problems with CC’s…. the 10 seconds reveal doesn’t help in that aspect…

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Axelwarrior.9084:

Zero Day.2594:

Working as intended, thief can die while entering and after entering stealth.

The unreasonable thief haters are not welcome here.
This issue is a problem for other classes as well, not just thieves. And as I mentioned, this happens to me very often on my mesmer.

Well kitten , for mesmers that must be a bug…

Right. When it happens on thieves it’s intended but for mesmers it’s a bug.
Go make some rage threads about thieves kicking your a** an get out of the serious topics, please.

Yup, exactly what I said!
See when a thief is able to remain in stealth for a decent amount of time and possibly chain stealths togather, it’s called perma stealth and needs a nerf… When a thief can reset fights, it’s unfair and needs a nerf… When a thief is able to do condition damage while in stealth (choking gas, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-Damage-and-Stealth/first#post3225311) it’s OP and requires a nerf… (even though mesmers have clones… that well.. do damage while the mesmer himself is stealthed).

So, clearly… when a thief is about to enter stealth or after and takes damage, that’s intended because we’re OP… However when it happens to a mesmer it’s clearly a bug…

This post could have had more success in the mesmer’s forum or in the bug forum to be honest… It might have even been fixed for you guys.

….
Good job quoting my sarcasm and then agreeing with it, by the way.
…

WOAH… at which point were you sarcastic? All my posts aside from the one addressing frans and this one where sarcastic… you might have missed it:

Zero Day.2594:

frans.8092:

You know, I get the impression that you two are pretty much in line with each other but expression styles got in the way.

;) I know… I didn’t add the “(sarcasm)” bit… Which resulted in slight trolling :P

It’s impressive though, a non-thief (or maybe it is his main, he said he plays mesmer), has come to this forums and asked for a fix for stealth (not the concept, but that one particular bug/annoyance…). True that it’s not only for thieves… but… it still effects thieves in a positive way…
You don’t see that often.

Though I did mean what I said about it having more success in other forums…

All the excuses that I’ve come up with, actually I didn’t come up with them, I repeated the QQ’ing I’ve seen about the thief.

Not sure what you’re main is, but it’s impressive that someone from another class came to the thief forums and is defending it… you really dont see that often.

Thief is a “hard” class. To achieve something that other class relatively easily achieve you will need to put in several magnitudes more effort, which goes for all game modes (aside from roaming in WvW, which thief is “probably best at”).
The only relatively good thing you will be able to do in WvW if you ever plan on doing WvW will be roaming (only reward being “fun”, no actual real tangible rewards or even if there are they’re so small compared to what you could be getting in a zerg).
Expect to be nerfed every patch. If there’s a buff it’s usually accompanied by a way larger nerf.
Check out the thief forums to get a glimpse of the community/things going on… or don’t you will probably be able to enjoy the class with knowing the issues and so forth.

If you want an easier time, roll a guardian or warrior… both are viable and are good at everything (where as thief, really, WvW roaming… that’s about it).

In all honesty, thief being my first class (and main), going through the game was fun, even a bit after being lvl 80 and having completed the personal story (once). But then it become more of a drag when I started to realize issues with it…

Prophet.6257:

I am so excited to see what is going to happen in 2014 with this game.

New maps? New Races? New Skills?

/crossesfingers

New maps – temporary
New Races – as costumes
New skills – healing/utility… WvW/PvE only

Excalibur.9748:

free rally bait for the other team

Or: