Guild Wars 2

PvP

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAqa4al0MhenY5Tw0Jw/EHIFlPGCiNg3ABwCsjyNbKB-TpBBABfcEAMa/BAeAAkXGYjDCAEnAAA

Difficulty : High / Potential : High
Power P/P-D/P Assassin Trick Thief
(Burst Roamer)
Read top to bottom
Critical Strike 3-2-1
Shadow Arts 3-2-2
Trickery 2-2-1
Assassin Amulet
Rune of Rage
P/P-D/P
Accuracy/Air – Energy/Rage
Withdraw/Roll of Initiative/Blinding Powder/Shadow Step/Basilisk Venom

Ill start off with the biggest DPS rotation. Start by getting into stealth with Black Powder and Heartseeker once in stealth wait a bit for your initiation to refill then use Sneak Attack follow up with one or two Unload burst swap to D/P use steal and finish with Backstab. Quick note try to land this final strike behind to get maximum damage. Even though this is your highest DPS combo does not mean its the only option in your attack you have to adapt depending on your situation.

The sustain side to this build is by far the most difficult aspect of the build. Withdraw, Roll of Initiative, Blinding Powder, Shadowstep and Stealth are your sustains. Even though the skills I’ve listed are primarily used as defensive Utilities they are more then capable of being part of your offensive rotations the Thief is a very situational and patient type of play style. Pick your battles know when to strike and disengage and you will succeed. The skills themselves are pretty self explanatory timing is the major challenge.

Counters. This high burst power build is very susceptible to stuns/dazes and AOE damage. If your caught with your pants down your most likely dead. If Withdraw, Roll of Initiative and Shadowstep are on cool down and you are stunned then GGWP.

I’ve been in many situations where I accidentally take myself out of DS when using Unholy Sanctuary and get insta killed but at the same time jumping into DS using Doom and getting out quick to land another skill is huge for me. I’d be ok with maybe a 1/4 sec (maybe less if thats even possible?) cool down or maybe what Mikau said as a middle ground. Actually Mikau suggestion makes a lot more sense to me. Even though this imo leans more towards human error rather then anything else.

Personally I feel that the tiers should have a bit of rework for example take condi/power/sustain/support into consideration. The diversity of builds for each profession at this point is almost none existent. Not enough data to make a proper tier list imo.

Hello all going to post this build here because it seems appropriate. The build is a power P/P-D/P Assassin Trick Thief build. Ill go over basic rotations, attack, sustain and risk/reward situations. Please note this build is a very difficult build to master but if your able to get it down packed you’ll basically be the best burst DPS in the game. Just a quick note this build is still in the early testing stages so imo its not optimized just yet.

PvP

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAqa4al0MhenY5Tw0Jw/EHIFlPGCiNg3ABwCsjyNbKB-TpBBABfcEAMa/BAeAAkXGYjDCAEnAAA

Difficulty : High / Potential : High
Power P/P-D/P Assassin Trick Thief
(Burst Roamer)
Read top to bottom
Critical Strike 3-2-1
Shadow Arts 3-2-2
Trickery 2-2-1
Assassin Amulet
Rune of Rage
P/P-D/P
Accuracy/Air – Energy/Rage
Withdraw/Roll of Initiative/Blinding Powder/Shadow Step/Basilisk Venom

Ill start off with the biggest DPS rotation. Start by getting into stealth with Black Powder and Heartseeker once in stealth wait a bit for your initiation to refill then use Sneak Attack follow up with one or two Unload burst swap to D/P (dirty minds) use steal and finish with Backstab. Quick note try to land this final strike behind to get maximum damage. Even though this is your highest DPS combo does not mean its the only option in your attack you have to adapt depending on your situation.

The sustain side to this build is by far the most difficult aspect of the build. Withdraw, Roll of Initiative, Blinding Powder, Shadowstep and Stealth are your sustains. Even though the skills I’ve listed are primarily used as defensive Utilities they are more then capable of being part of your offensive rotations the Thief is a very situational and patient type of play style. Pick your battles know when to strike and disengage and you will succeed. The skills themselves are pretty self explanatory timing is the major challenge.

Counters. This high burst power build is very susceptible to stuns/dazes and AOE damage. If your caught with your pants down your most likely dead. If Withdraw, Roll of Initiative and Shadowstep are on cool down and you are stunned then GGWP.

This build is hard to master when first starting out with the build you will die…. a lot but if you master it the reward is huge. GLHF! If you have any feedback or questions feel free to ask! Or if you have a variation feel free to post and we can maybe go through a brainstorming session!

Also if any Dev is reading this can I just say…… LLLMMMAAAOOOO you guys are hilarious. How does that saying go…. Dirty minds think alike?! /kappa

If I can butt in for just one second. For me personally the minion AI is what makes it hard to truly focus on the build the way I used to before. I mostly play PvP atm so those few seconds of idle time can really be felt. In PvE is a lot more forgiving so I tend to still run minion builds there but I still feel the AI needs to be fixed before the builds can truly be optimized. I have to agree with Bhawb that the style of play should focus more on active rather then passive play even though I have really yet to truly figure out all the minion master variations… again due to the AI problems. Now having said all that…. Bhawb your ego is showing and you tend to have a habit of whipping it out almost in all your post so if you can tuck it back in and zip it up I for one would really appreciate it. Feels like good intentions but BM.

Balance = Class Diversity/Counters simple. This can be done multiple ways. Soft/Hard (kind/scale) or vise versa. IDK if I said that right :P At least thats my POV of it :/

WoW will add new classes. GW will add new specializations. Same kitten different name balance wise. WoW defines the builds for the player GW requires the players to find the builds themselves. Main difference for me between WoW and GW is numbers. WoW will reward optimization by min/max GW by skill rotation. Honestly I don’t understand why people compare the two so much they really are completely different games and play styles. But rock/paper/scissors will rule every single game. Every game will always be rock/paper/scissors just done differently or Pong… LOL! Everything has been done already! Only difference is skins!!! Oh yeah and RNG!!! lawlz. Only subcategories will be different also known as skins. Or when we start fusing games together but at its core it will always be one of the 3…. I mean 4 forgot about Tetris…. woooops.

Pick your poison. Personally I don’t like feeling so restricted which is why I enjoy GW more then WoW I’m a filthy casual. Also the combat system is just way more fun for me more active less numbers. But to be fair their both active in their own ways. But in the end thats the main difference. WoW you will always be forced to min/max but in GW you’ll always be forced to act/react.

Again just my POV fun discussion though.

Edit : Wanted to make a more detailed formula for the sake of clarification I really enjoy this :P

A = Balance B = Diversity C = Counter

A=B/(C(x)) <— Most detailed formula I’m not studying game design or anything so there might be a more complex formula this is just from my basic understanding.

Three good sites that you should have bookmarked Metabattle.com / gw2skills.net and intothemist.com

Metabattle to see the current most popular builds even though imo they are missing a lot of viable builds. gw2skill for a straight forward skill calculator and intothemist is basically both of the other 2 rolled into one with a bit more info etc.

If you’d like some good necro builds I’m sure the forum community will be more then happy to give you a few. If you’d like a specific build condi burst, power burst, power sustain, condi sustain, sustain support, etc… would be good info to let us know and we could probably throw a few your way. But metabattle is the place to go to check the most used builds and the ones (METAS) that won tournaments. Also check the build thread at the top of the necro forum page there are some builds posted there. Ive also posted 3 builds there 2 kind of difficult ones and one that is a bit easier to pick up and play. GLHF!

Oh boy tough one I need a minute to think it over. Also which commander Shepard? Which ending did he/she choose? :P Talking about ME3 or from which ME?? Need more information.

PvP

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAoYWjk0QLNWTD22A7NOsGqZCkyZgMAC5flGCxwkC-TpBBABCcIAA4BAQz+DUcCAivMwGHBAA

Difficulty : Medium / Potential : Unknown
Power D/D-Staff Crusader Well (Vampire Variant)
(Sustain side point fighter)
Read top to bottom
Blood Magic 2-1-1
Soul Reaping 3-2-2
Death Magic 2-3-3
Crusader Amulet
Rune of the Eagle
D/D-Staff
Accuracy/Blood – Energy/Chilling
Well of Power/Well of Suffering/Well of Corruption/Spectral Armor/Flesh Golem

Hello everyone posting a build I’ve been playing around with fairly recently. Testing it out trying to get it to a place where I feel satisfied with the synergy. The build revolves around life siphoning and burst power damage. The biggest damage comes from Well/Dagger burst and close range Life Blast. Sustain comes from Life Siphon, DS and Wells. In the next few paragraphs ill be going over major rotations and hypothetical situations in fights and counters to the build.

Ill start off with the biggest damage rotation which is Well of Suffering, Well of Corruption, Necrotic Slash and Life Blast. The best way to land this combo since we are using Wells and they are stationary is to try and get a knockdown with Flesh Golem pop off Well of Suffering then use Dark Pact with Well of Corruption and finish it off with Necrotic Slash till Death Shroud is available then Life Blast to victory! Also a quick note Fears and Chills can also help in forcing enemies to stay inside the Wells. Now of course in a perfect world you’ll be able to land that rotation perfectly but since we live in an imperfect world you’ll have to try and find opening or adapt to the situations. An example would be if going up against a boon heavy class/build using Well of Corruption first then Well of Suffering to really bring the pain and so on. Also Life Siphon should be sprinkled in the combos just so you get used to fitting it into the rotation and not build bad habits (which I tend to have sadly) by only relying on your Necrotic Slash and life siphoning sigils/runes.

For the sustain part of this build its all about Life Siphon and DS. The interesting part about this build is its very situational because Wells with the life siphon can also be used to sustain. Other then that the sustain is pretty straight forward. Life Siphon gives you a good chunk of HP also DS with Life Transfer traited can also give you a good chunk of HP and Well of Blood can instantly get 1/3 and more of your HP. Dagger off hand and Staff for condi transfer with DS trait Shrouded Removal.

This build has a few ways to be countered the most potent is stuns/daze. Your strongest healing skills are channeled or in the case of Well of Blood has high cast times so an aware opponent can cut your healing almost in half if he times his stuns/daze properly. Knowing when your opponent used his stuns/daze is key in landing your heals. This build with only one stun break is very susceptible to ganks but a good way to avoid this is to going on the offensive. If you see or feel a gank incoming pop your Wells with Well of Suffering or Well of Corruption 1st because they have 1/4 sec cast time. If you have enough Life Force you’ll be able to quickly turn a bad situation into an opportunity to maybe take out an over aggressive Thief or Mesmer basically any low hp squishy class. Staff also helps with avoiding ganks.

The 2 builds I’ve posted before this one imo are a lot more effective/stronger but are a lot more difficult to master.

This build is still in testing I feel it can have better synergy with itself (optimized) but posting the build because I still feel in general the build is solid just not optimized.

Axe is imo exactly what you said. Burst type damage with soft CC, boon rip and excellent vulnerability stacking. Power weapon. Im obviously not a dev but hope this helps.

spoj.9672:

Doesnt matter how long you’ve played. If you dont have an open mind you will be stuck with the same delusions forever. Expanding to other classes is the biggest eye opener you can get in this game. I would suggest you do the same. But since you have played since release you probably have right?

No I only play Necro….

Samhayn.2385:

Jekkt.6045:

they nerfed chill for all classes and put an icd on a trait that deserved an icd?

increasing the cooldown on gs is something i don’t understand but it’s still beta so i’m sure robert will listen to feedback.

I will only use one trait for now. Chilling nova went from being able to proc three times in ten seconds putting a 3 sec chill on 3 targets to a 2 sec chill on three targets on a 15 sec icd.

So the amount of time it chills for nerfed, the amount of times it could proc nerfed and the icd was increased. That’s not a small change at all. It’s changes like that. Those are the things we see and wonder why.

Guys a build is made from different pieces. You can’t just go the power well route. Cant min/max its not that simple. Anyways I g2g. GL guys but seriously I am really trying to help. Not trying to get on a ego high.

Bhawb.7408:

Zoso.8279:

Ive been reading these forums for a while and I wouldn’t call what you guys are doing feedback…. Sounds more like demands.

There are a lot of people giving amazing feedback. We said ICDs would make the specialization far too clunky, because ICDs don’t reward skillful play but instead are balanced to the extreme few situations. We said GS didn’t do enough damage to warrant its cast times, and asked it be buffed so that it fit their given theme, instead they gave skills longer CDs.

We’ve been giving feedback for 3 years, and most of the problems we have now are due to things they did without feedback. The good changes they make? Almost all due to feedback.

Same group that complains about landing Focus 5 and the str of Axe…….. If I was a dev I wouldn’t/couldn’t trust your feedback.

I tried….. Let everyone be witness that I tried. Ill see you all in the mist

SMH…… /facepalm This game isn’t about 1 spam contrary to popular belief you have to set up your attacks. You guys have already made up your mind. Your a very stubborn group. You won’t grow like this. You’ll never learn cuz you know it all.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Zoso.8279:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Zoso.8279:

spoj.9672:

Patience only lasts so long. Reaper looked like an improvement despite not addressing any core issues. Then they basically nerf everything good about it before it gets released. Can you really blame us?

Your slaves to numbers and don’t understand concepts. From my POV.

You’re right. We are slaves to numbers.

We have 0 blocks, we have 0 mobility, we do mediocre damage and I believe we’re still last on that. We have 3 blast finishers, 1 on staff which requires an enemy to trigger, and 2 from MINIONS. Our big bad OP elite lich gives us only 1 stack of pulsing stability, the only elite to my knowledge that does that when it comes to transformations. We have incredibly long cast times on our skills, but have 0 stability on base necro, and the stability we get on reaper is walled off behind reaper’s shroud. They put a 5 second ICD on chilling darkness it seems SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF REAPER. Hey! Least we got 2 health bars right?

And you’re also right in us not understanding concepts. We don’t understand the concept of us being a selfish class, but being barely self sufficient. We don’t unstand why we don’t have reliable stability with our big slow casting times. We don’t understand the concept of hitting like a limp kitten on attacks that have giant animations and tells. We don’t understand why chill and cripple were nerfed into oblivion, almost right after reaper was announced!

GJ your really smart. TY for helping. Now I’m playing a better build and being more effective in the game. Turns out it was all my controllers fault.

Yes yes, L2P issues, it’s always that, right? Class is OP you need to learn to play against it, if it’s UP you need to learn to play it. Ahhh, I love that argument. Ah well, least you’re enjoying necro, wonder how long that’ll last.

If you can’t land Focus 5 then yes it is a learn to play issue. If your attacking barrels and crates to get LF yes again a L2P issue. Lots of L2P issues atm. A complete reliance on one guy in one team (who dominate every week) to show everyone viable builds again L2P issue. Rangers as a group it looks like are doing it better.

+1 I like the idea. Reminds me of Gears of War.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Zoso.8279:

spoj.9672:

Patience only lasts so long. Reaper looked like an improvement despite not addressing any core issues. Then they basically nerf everything good about it before it gets released. Can you really blame us?

Your slaves to numbers and don’t understand concepts. From my POV.

You’re right. We are slaves to numbers.

We have 0 blocks, we have 0 mobility, we do mediocre damage and I believe we’re still last on that. We have 3 blast finishers, 1 on staff which requires an enemy to trigger, and 2 from MINIONS. Our big bad OP elite lich gives us only 1 stack of pulsing stability, the only elite to my knowledge that does that when it comes to transformations. We have incredibly long cast times on our skills, but have 0 stability on base necro, and the stability we get on reaper is walled off behind reaper’s shroud. They put a 5 second ICD on chilling darkness it seems SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF REAPER. Hey! Least we got 2 health bars right?

And you’re also right in us not understanding concepts. We don’t understand the concept of us being a selfish class, but being barely self sufficient. We don’t unstand why we don’t have reliable stability with our big slow casting times. We don’t understand the concept of hitting like a limp kitten on attacks that have giant animations and tells. We don’t understand why chill and cripple were nerfed into oblivion, almost right after reaper was announced!

GJ your really smart. TY for helping. Now I’m playing a better build and being more effective in the game. Turns out it was all my controllers fault.

spoj.9672:

Patience only lasts so long. Reaper looked like an improvement despite not addressing any core issues. Then they basically nerf everything good about it before it gets released. Can you really blame us?

Your slaves to numbers and don’t understand concepts. From my POV. Its holding you guys/gals back.

Bhawb.7408:

Jekkt.6045:

they nerfed chill for all classes and put an icd on a trait that deserved an icd?

increasing the cooldown on gs is something i don’t understand but it’s still beta so i’m sure robert will listen to feedback.

So far they’ve done the exact opposite of listen to our feedback when it comes to reaper.

Ive been reading these forums for a while and I wouldn’t call what you guys are doing feedback…. Sounds more like demands.

PvP

Hard to pick up but once you get used to the builds they are very fast and strong. Enjoy! GLHF!

Power DPS
Spite-Spiteful Talisman/Chill of Death/Close to Death
Soul Reaping-Soul Marks/Spectral Mastery/Death Perception
Curses-Plague Sending/Path of Corruption/Weakening Shroud
Axe/Focus & Staff
Sigil of Str/Frailty & Sigil of Energy/Hydromancy
Rune of Strength
Marauder Amulet
Consume Conditions/Spectral Wall/Spectral Walk/Spectral Armor/Lich Form

Condi DPS
(Top to bottom)
Spite – 3-2-3
SR – 3-2-3
Curse – 2-3-3
Carrion Amulet
Rune of the Nightmare
Staff & Scepter/Focus
Sigil of Geomancy/Energy & Sigil of Peril/Frailty
CCondition/CBoon/SGrasp/SArmor/Lich

Bubi.5237:

Necro? L2P?
DS Anyone?

JonPeters.5630:

Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him.

Lol nekrouw tow stronk nerph pweas. Focus 5 too HARD!

Nova Stiker.8396:

ArenaNet is trying to make an Esport THEN PvP.

All the problems EVERYONE is currently having with PvP is because ArenaNet is trying to make an Esport from a PvP that has to many problems. They even allowed teams to abuse the weapon stowing ele exploit in the PvP finals. League of Legends will ban entire teams if one player is caught cheating.

It doesn’t matter how great your PvP is ArenaNet, League of Legends didn’t become an Esport because Riot tried to, it’s because the COMMUNITY wanted to. Sports are created by the players, not the makers. It doesn’t matter how good your game is, it’ll never become a sport when you don’t have a strong community.

---

But hell, I doubt ArenaNet pays much attention.

Dude half the people here can’t land focus 5 on necro…. lol L2P issues.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

This sentence right here is the problem. Also it looks like you want engi play style on necro.

I don’t want necromancer to be a jack of all traits. A single build should have a counter to it. Soft counters are preferred but hard counters are alright as well. However, there shouldn’t be a hard counter for the entire profession. It should matter what your match ups are. It shouldn’t be that their is absolutely nothing you can do to play better based on your limitations from mechanics. So I see no problems with my statement. I don’t want to play like an engineer. We need greater utility. This is a fact. We are front loaded, which puts way too much focus on Death shroud. Its our damage, its our utility, its our defense, its our control, its supposed to be everything all at the same time and executes none of this very well. You must be imagining things on the Engineer comparison, because I don’t want it to be like the engineer. I’ve never even hinted toward that.

DS can be tailored towards defense or offense depending on how you trait it. People tend to forgot about the actual necro :P he can do stuff too you know. Its not about just getting into DS and 111111111 or getting into DS and absorbing damage. Either way I play for fun and very casually just giving my opinions because atm it looks like necros are kinda stuck but w/e glhf. Ill be going back into the shadows less headaches there :P (get it? cuz I’m a necromancer… lol!)

I’d help but I’m not very familiar with WvW so don’t know what to recommend. Im sure you’ll need some speed buffs maybe war horn?

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Ive been playing this game awhile too… I guess we just see it differently. Idk when the devs said its only just extra hp. I could be wrong though but regardless I really enjoy the current version of DS and I’m excited for RS.

I enjoy the necromancer as well. I wouldn’t main it if I didn’t. However, just because I enjoy it doesn’t mean I’m going to be blind to is overwhelming flaws and poor balance design.

When people are crying because they can’t hit focus 5 and blaming the “controller” then there is a problem with the way people are thinking…. Not saying Necro is perfect but its def not where most people think it is. Watching the stream right now at gamescom was kinda hard to watch as a necro main.

I’ve got their rotations down. Its not blaming the controller or any nonsense like that. The GW2 controls are really tight. Its that we often just get hard counters regardless of what build we are taking. Its not even that we’re hard countered for taking a specific build, its all of them. And the lack of group utility that we effectively have to be front loaded in Death shroud just exasperates these problems. With utility, it wouldn’t be broken. Some traits might need to be looked at again, sure. And some skills might need to be retooled because they are not designed with the idea of being used while in Shroud. Most wouldn’t have to change. Signets wouldn’t have to change at all, wells, minions, shouts, corruptions. Well, corruptions need to be buffed but thats on their base not their flat utility. Spectral skills are the the only problem at face value. Which I mentioned. The others? not so much. Wells aren’t very high damage, even though some people might disagree with that but when you compare them to similar damaging aoe from other professions they’re damage is decent but not insane. Granting the necromancer the ability to use their skills in shroud gives them greater opportunity to both support and pressure people. Capable of dropping something like a dark field on a downed ally while at the same time reviving them in Shroud is good, but its not insane. Especially when taking into the Life force cost as the other part of the suggestion. A burst necromancer might have a build that builds up Life force to burst out high damage utility to sacrifice their defenses. This might be against some of the ideas that Arena net had with the necromancer, however they shouldn’t be afraid to break the mold with some professions. Especially a profession thats all about life for power.

This sentence right here is the problem. Also it looks like you want engi play style on necro.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Ive been playing this game awhile too… I guess we just see it differently. Idk when the devs said its only just extra hp. I could be wrong though but regardless I really enjoy the current version of DS and I’m excited for RS.

I enjoy the necromancer as well. I wouldn’t main it if I didn’t. However, just because I enjoy it doesn’t mean I’m going to be blind to is overwhelming flaws and poor balance design.

When people are crying because they can’t hit focus 5 and blaming the “controller” then there is a problem with the way people are thinking…. Not saying Necro is perfect but its def not where most people think it is. Watching the stream right now at gamescom was kinda hard to watch as a necro main.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

It wouldn’t be. I used to think that about 2 years ago, but with high experience with the profession comes understanding what its flaws are. And without utility the necromancer is put into a pretty sour spot in terms of their defenses and offenses.

Utilities in DS would turn DS into a second health bar :/ and from my experience with the class I can tell you that if you trait properly DS can be very strong both in offense and defense.

And my experience with the profession says that it wont be over poered. And DS is SUPPOSED TO BE A SECOND HEALTH BAR!!!! Although it never functioned that way. In the low end of PvP, people have trouble with necros. In high end, they don’t, necros have been focused almost completely out of the meta. For WvW they’re strong because of the fact that Zergs by their very nature are not as intelligent as a single player. That isn’t saying they’re stupid, we are all less intelligent in a mob. Its just what happens. And In PvE, the necromancer is 8th in usefulness for a group. The necromancer is in an extremely bad spot right now and after 3 years of experience with the necromancer and other professions, the necromancer is extraordinarily weak.

Ill agree with you that in PvE the necro is lackluster compared to other but I think thats more of a design flaw of PvE atm then the necro itself. In WvW I can’t really say because I mostly only roam on my ranger and its mostly solo (atm) but I can tell you in PvP its more of an issue of necros not using the most optimal builds. Now Nos from what I’ve seen in the tournaments plays necro very good and can dominate with the cele signet build but I can’t say every build I’ve seen necros use are as dominant as the cele signet. I think there is a misconception going around that DS is only a second health bar and it should really stop cuz it makes the people who say it sound like they don’t know much about the necro.

Also I can link you my favorite (main) build if you want its very good defensively and offensively in DS. But its a PvP build.

I said it was supposed to be. Not that it was. And a Celestial build isn’t high in both. Its moderate in both. Arena net has pushed it as a second health bar when it doesn’t function like one. Their words not mine. Either way, I have more than enough experience to know the ins and outs of the profession. I’ve been doing this for 3 years, and again, in year 1 I would have agreed with you. But I’m in year 3 now. And I’ve revised my views to match with whats happening in reality. I’ve also got quit a bit of experience with Mesmers, Guardians and Engineer. Out of all of them my necromancer, even with the best meta builds, suggested builds from other people and my own home brew, doesn’t hold a candle to my other mains. Especially the mesmer. And Especially after the patch.

Ive been playing this game awhile too… I guess we just see it differently. Idk when the devs said its only just extra hp. I could be wrong though but regardless I really enjoy the current version of DS and I’m excited for RS.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

It wouldn’t be. I used to think that about 2 years ago, but with high experience with the profession comes understanding what its flaws are. And without utility the necromancer is put into a pretty sour spot in terms of their defenses and offenses.

Utilities in DS would turn DS into a second health bar :/ and from my experience with the class I can tell you that if you trait properly DS can be very strong both in offense and defense.

And my experience with the profession says that it wont be over poered. And DS is SUPPOSED TO BE A SECOND HEALTH BAR!!!! Although it never functioned that way. In the low end of PvP, people have trouble with necros. In high end, they don’t, necros have been focused almost completely out of the meta. For WvW they’re strong because of the fact that Zergs by their very nature are not as intelligent as a single player. That isn’t saying they’re stupid, we are all less intelligent in a mob. Its just what happens. And In PvE, the necromancer is 8th in usefulness for a group. The necromancer is in an extremely bad spot right now and after 3 years of experience with the necromancer and other professions, the necromancer is extraordinarily weak.

Ill agree with you that in PvE the necro is lackluster compared to other but I think thats more of a design flaw of PvE atm then the necro itself. In WvW I can’t really say because I mostly only roam on my ranger and its mostly solo (atm) but I can tell you in PvP its more of an issue of necros not using the most optimal builds. Now Nos from what I’ve seen in the tournaments plays necro very good and can dominate with the cele signet build but I can’t say every build I’ve seen necros use are as dominant as the cele signet. I think there is a misconception going around that DS is only a second health bar and it should really stop cuz it makes the people who say it sound like they don’t know much about the necro.

Also I can link you my favorite (main) build if you want its very good defensively and offensively in DS. But its a PvP build.

Lily.1935:

Zoso.8279:

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

It wouldn’t be. I used to think that about 2 years ago, but with high experience with the profession comes understanding what its flaws are. And without utility the necromancer is put into a pretty sour spot in terms of their defenses and offenses.

(PVP)
Utilities in DS would turn DS into a second health bar :/ and from my experience with the class I can tell you that if you trait properly DS can be very strong both in offense and defense.

BlackTruth.6813:

Zoso.8279:

Gizmorage.6412:

Zoso.8279:

So you’d rather everyone run around playing rock/paper/scissor but necros scissor is green and mesmers purple? No thanks man.

He just said the exact opposite thing @@ hardcounters are the definition of rock paper scissor, your post makes no sense.

And once again, celestial necro is NOT a hardcounter to cele ele, and especially fighting on a point. You can’t judge something out of ONE duel. i’ve killed celestial elementalists in a matter of seconds (yes really), cause they just messed up their water attunment, misplays exist, even at top tier.

v.v rock/paper/scissors on your skill bar. There is no diversity in class/build types is what I’m trying to say. The game is balanced and has diversity which is exactly where you want to have it imo.

Except when teams are just stacking 2 eles.. then something is wrong. That’s what you call an enforced meta.

This is the problem. And agreed 2 Ele and 1hr stalemate fights are boring as kitten!

Gizmorage.6412:

Zoso.8279:

So you’d rather everyone run around playing rock/paper/scissor but necros scissor is green and mesmers purple? No thanks man.

He just said the exact opposite thing @@ hardcounters are the definition of rock paper scissor, your post makes no sense.

And once again, celestial necro is NOT a hardcounter to cele ele, and especially fighting on a point. You can’t judge something out of ONE duel. i’ve killed celestial elementalists in a matter of seconds (yes really), cause they just messed up their water attunment, misplays exist, even at top tier.

v.v rock/paper/scissors on your skill bar. There is no diversity in class/build types is what I’m trying to say. The game is balanced and has diversity which is exactly where you want to have it imo.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Zoso

It makes perfect sense. Balance implies that all classes are relatively equal in power. It would have to be so because the profession mix in each match is more or less random.

Hence, having one class in a position to consistently beat another is antithetical to balance.

So you’d rather everyone run around playing rock/paper/scissor but necros scissor is green and mesmers purple? No thanks man.

Ithilwen.1529:

I don’t honestly think a “hard counter” as it’s been defined here should exist. That’s antithetical to the idea of “balance.”

Having said that, I am a not-so-great Mesmer and I can get a d/d ele, by loading them with confusion.

??? that makes no sense man.

IDK. I think DS should stay as is for now. I think allowing Utilities to be used while in DS will make it super OP. The biggest problem with Necro is that most people haven’t mastered it yet. Also the way its looking with our specialization (Reaper) it looks that maybe they do add a type of shroud in the future that has utility skills but it will probably be lacking in something else to keep the balance. Probably call it Death Kit Shroud or something like that lol :P. But honestly IMO DS with utility will probably be super OP.

Good luck to The Abjured. Kick ars boys. Bring the title back to NA!

From my POV I think cele signet necro has great sustain and can stay on point with a d/d ele but it can’t really force the ele to rotate because it doesn’t have the power necessary to stop the ele from healing itself and doesn’t have enough chills or cripples to catch the ele when he retreats to heal himself this is why i assume you don’t count it as a hard counter. I’ve tried A/F-Staff Spectral Power build that is pretty effective. Spite/Curse/SR top to bottom 1-1-2/2-2-1/2-1-2 on A/F sigil of str/frailty and staff hydromancy/energy rune of str with marauder amulet. Consume Conditions, spectral wall, spectral walk, spectral armor, lich form. Try it out and see if its what your looking for but let me warn you its pretty hard to just pick up and dominate because the skills are not very easy to land (weapon set) so you going to have to get used to it a bit.

Ithilwen.1529:

I definitely don’t support “majority rules” map voting. The first thing that would happen is a guild would make a 5 power ranger team and vote as a block for courtyard everytime.

The potential for abuse is mind boggling.

As to playing pve while queue’d pvp.. yeah right. Are people likely to leave a world boss and the associated loot when their queue pops? Not a chance. The level of queue failure and wait times would be an order of magnitude higher.

Its true that there will be situations that a player cancels the que but if I remember correctly the devs said in this system of matchmaking if your Q is dropped then the players who accept and are still in the que get priority to the next game which I think can help lessen the effects of the leaving que when game already popped. Staying in HotM is alright because of the convenience of bank/TP etc.. but just gets way to boring not having anything to do even though I just spend my time reading till que pops lol.

Ara.4569:

Rym.1469:

Good luck landing Spinal Shivers on Ele with Blinding Ashes or Mesmer.

Or most other professions, tbh.

Sometimes, the surprise factor get some newbies: they see you cast something and dodge roll, at the end of the roll you’re still casting, they start to fear something big and go on a second dodge roll. After they emptied their whole endurance bar, Spinal Shivers finally lands.

Stow weapon is your friend also with the amount of fears that we Necros have available to us we can both make an opening or wait for one within the fight. But I do agree Focus is a pretty difficult weapon to master but once you do can be extremely powerful.

Nice video build looks fun think ill play around with different ranger builds a bit more instead of only playing the good old tried and true LB/GS (only ranger build I play atm)

Ara.4569:

IIvIIozzie.9250:

If 8 players vote for Foefire and 1 votes for Temple there should be a 0% chance temple wins. Majority rules.

Minority not getting crushed endlessly by majority like IRL is what makes the current in-game vote system near perfect.

Everyone’s vote has the same weight you really can’t get a better system.

nearlight.3064:

If you want to have a chance to survive, you need to dodge Dark Path. It is hard however because they tend to ensure it lands by fearing you during its travel time. The only time you can afford to eat it is if your water attunement isn’t on cooldown. As someone who plays both Ele and necro, I can tell you that 5 seconds of chill is really hard for ele’s to deal with since it prevents you from doing defensive rotations as much. Aside from that, you have to land burning speed consistently as drakes breath and ring of fire will work against you here. You can use ring of fire for might stacking, but be extra careful if they start strafing into and out of it on purpose :p

That is huge. Definitely have to watch out for that but the tells are there.

@Aktium

Oh sorry XP

Focus 5 is only one skill on a weapon set that removes up to 3 boons while doing spike damage and the depth of traits and commitment required I think is proof that boon rip is a big part of the Necro theme. I remember a lot of stalemate fights especially in high tier play. Funny enough you can trait fears to do quite a bit of damage and with the abundance of boon rip that Necros have its pretty “easy” (lol depends on the opponent) to remove stability if you have experience with the class. Agreed rotations and strats is how you win in PvP. Axe auto applies 2 stacks of vul and focus also stacks a bunch which is less of an investment then a whole trait line.

-Let us join games from out of HotM.
Thats my main gripe I enjoyed waiting in 1v1 king of the hill servers or going WvW.

+1 for detailed statistics.

Thats all I have to say about that…. :P lol

@Aktium

Necros are the best at boon conversion man IDK what to tell you it just is. We’re talking about actual possible builds… Boon conversion is extremely relevant considering how many classes use boon stacking which is the reason why Warriors and Necro don’t share the same role and you said it yourself all you need to counter CC is stability. If you go boon stack for boon stack then you end up with a stalemate situation where eventually someone will have to come +1 assuming both players are at the same level. Axe/Focus with Sigil of frailty stacks vulnerability pretty fast.

Try spectral power necro :P (Axe/Focus/Staff)(Spite/Curse/SR)

@Aktium yeah I mean vulnerability lol!!! Been up all night x.x

On topic you can’t compare Mesmer boon removal to Necro because Necro just plain does it better. Mesmer has a total of 4 skills both weapon and utilities that remove boons and 1 trait that can remove up to 3 at a time in comparison to Necro that has 6 weapon and utilities that remove or convert boons and 2 traits that both convert 2 boons to conditions. We both agree that Mesmer has better mobility and burst potential with some neat team support. But Necro has sustain, vul and soft CC so they are able to apply consistent pressure. Heavy AoE pressure is great but since we are talking about wells the fact that they are stationary means its chances of missing are pretty high because enemies can just move away from the area and we both know as Necro players that the second we start using life transfer more times then not we get CC’d.

Completely agree Well Power Necro is a burst build high risk/high reward. True that Stab can counter fears but Necros have a lot of access to boon removal so removing stability shouldn’t be a huge task for an experienced Necro also anything thats balanced has counter play to it so that you have to work a little to be able to land all your skills. I won’t get mad if Spectral Wall always stayed in front of me XD lol would be OP as kitten though. Agreed was giving CPC as an example for downstate pressure but its definitely more a condi build Utility.

Warriors are very good counters to Necros because they have their own form of invulnerability (lol) and high CC which is a complete counter to Necros but Spectral Power Necros have good damage mitigation so can counter most classes because of others classes reliance of boons. Spectral Necros can apply sustained heavy pressure so imo in a +1 situation can more effectively beat the enemy because its a more controlled pressure compared to setting a well on the area and trying to force the enemy to stand inside. Like I said before I’ve always thought Warriors were great counters to Necros with amazing CC but they aren’t as effective against boon heavy builds which Necros can basically melt. Well Power Necros are better at team fights because of the AoE pressure but their chances to miss are a lot higher then Spectral Power Necros which can be just as effective imo in teams fights but are more single target focused and have a lot more sustain. But let me just say both are completely viable the playing styles are different I’m just giving my opinion on why I think Spectral Power Necros are a bit more reliable.

Necro can apply more vul then both Engi and Warrior but Warrior has more sustain then Necros and Engi have better AoE pressure. Necro excels at vulnerability, Boon removal and soft CC can completely counter stealth with its AoE pressure and can burst down almost any boon heavy build the point I’m trying to make is Spectral Power Necro is viable just underrated. And of course anything thats balanced is going to have counters. :P Fun discussion.

Aktium.9506:

Zoso.8279:

Aktium.9506:

Zoso.8279:

power Necro builds being stubborn and having the one skill burst kill mentality and that is most definitely NOT how Necros should be played. We are attrition class we should be the best 1v1 “slowly kill you” fighters not burst. My advise to those Necros…. Don’t blow your load too quickly :P lol!

m8 u wot

Unless the necro is running the spectral variant of power nec with no wells(pls don’t), letting fights turn into battles of attrition is the worst thing that can happen imo. Ending the fight quickly before attrition kicks in and all your kitten is on cooldown while the enemy heals like wolverine on steroids and does a steady of amount of damage that depletes your health and ds faster than you can replenish either is somewhat important.

The only Necro build that feels even remotely attrition-y is Condi since there’s no way to burst condis on people anymore. I suppose MM fits into the attrition playstyle too, until your minions are dead and you have to resummon them all while low on hp.

Wells imo are best used in WvW or in holding points where the size and static nature of wells is best highlighted by number of players hit and control of an area. One skill kill burst builds on a class thats whole concept is based around attrition I think is not using the class to its full potential. Now if your going for a more tank route then yeah wells are a better option because tank builds are all about holding points or areas.

Slapping down wells on a point or on a downed person about to be ressed and doing loads of ranged AoE damage is more or less the only reason to take a Power Necro over say a Mesmer, Warr or Thief in Conquest. When all your damage is tied to DS, Lich and wep sets and your niche use of heavy AoE pressure is gone you’ve simply got less to offer than other classes. Necromancer’s attrition won’t work as intended for as long as other classes can regain health and/or disengage at the rate they currently can. This may or may not change with Reaper. We’ll see I suppose, not that Reaper possibly being good helps base Necromancer though.

Necros excel at inv stacking, boon ripping/conversion and condi transfer also fear applications thats why they would be desired. AoE constant pressure is Engi territory Staff is really the only weapon set that does a lot of “consistent” AoE pressure next to 2 Wells with huge CD but I do agree that Well Power Necro can put a ton of pressure on down enemies. Mostly because they are stationary and for a total of 11sec using both Wells and once you’ve used those two Well your basically dead. Spectral Wall can be just as effective to get a stomp or fear enemy allies from reviving or Corrosive Poison Cloud and poison applications on down opponents because it affects the speed of heals but poison applications aren’t really a power thing. The power build posted on MetaBattle is a one skill burst build once your done you really don’t have any defenses which is not using the attrition style of Necro and your not really holding down a point too long with Well Power Necro because well duration is very short in total you have 11 sec of control and then your in CD which is really ineffective imo and leaves you completely open to be ganked.

Power build doesn’t mean 1 hit burst only. Power builds can be many things and can still be preferred over thief or mesmer for example because they have a lot more sustain EVEN on a Marauder Amulet while still having massive damage and boon/condi manipulation but Thief and Mesmer will always win the 1 hit burst race against Necro because of all the disengages (but power necros can do what they can’t by staying in combat because of sustain) they have they just plain do it better (because its not stationary) . In fact Spectral Power builds are way more effective in winning fights in PvP then Well Power builds because they offer a lot more survivability/mobility and thus can stay in the fights longer with its massive LF generation (DS uptime), boon conversions and inv applications all while still hitting like a truck.

In summary Well Power Necro offer 1 skill burst with no mobility because once the Wells are used they are stationary whiles Spectral Power Builds have a lot more mobility DS uptime and consistent pressure. But really it all comes down to play style but I think Spectral Power builds work better with the attrition nature of Necros.

I’d like them to at least let us go into hotjoin servers. 1v1 servers make time fly by when waiting.

It looks like you did make the right decision because your team won lol but from my experience in PvP rotation is key and if you standing still your not playing to your fullest potential.