Guild Wars 2

Lol… plays the most OP class in the game… complains one skill that was literally an “I WIN” button gotten nerfed…

/facedesk

5/10

Mesmer is pretty over the top right now. I suspect it will be toned down a few more times. The power block nerf was certainly justified. I did 10k damage to myself just trying to get my heal off.

Electro.4173:

I’ve never been able to figure out how people can manage to hit over 2k condition raw condition damage (I’m assuming “base” means no food / utilities?). My Engie is pretty much 100% condition damage based on every piece of gear I have and I’ve only got 1400. Clearly I’m missing something huge. I’m sure the fact that I can’t be bothered to get ascended armor and weapons is part of it (though I do have the trinkets, thanks LS season 2), but there has to be more to it than that.

The weapon sigil that adds 6% is a pretty big boost. that is 90 extra condition damage if you are at 1500. Krait runes add 175, and for necro traits add quite a bit

We get:
150 from lingering curse
13% of precision into condition which in full rabid ascended is 1971 -> 256 condition damage

Ascended armor gives 329 condition damage
Ascended trinkets give 692 condition damage
Ascended weapons give 251 condition damage
= 1272

Overall that gives us:

1272 from items, 175 from runes, 406 from necro traits = 1853 + 6% = 1964

Then there are 14 possible infusion slots at +5 each for another +70 = 2034 (2038 with the 6% again)

I only have 8 infusions and i’m at 2100 so my numbers must be slightly off somewhere, i’ll have to check ingame.

Edit: just checked ingame. It seems they raised ascended armor values from 329→439. Weapon and trinkets stayed the same. This raises the calculation by 110 to:

439 + 692 + 251 = 1382 from armor
+175 (runes) +150 (lingering curse) + 256 (13% precision to CD) +6% = 2081 + infusions

CorrynnStarr.7942:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I did 200 ascended rolls, ended up with enough component to make a forge conduit, and made ~2000g after selling all my extra ectos.

Obviously this is not a representative sample, but 200 rolls was a pretty good amount.

so you spent 20k gold and ended up wit h2k? or was it 22k you ended up with? what was your beggining ecto count? what did you end with?

I started with 2k gold and 1.5k ectos. I ended with 3500g and ~4k ectos which I sold for a total of 4.7k gold and 0 ectos.

I continually bought and sold as I went along, I only dipped down once, but quickly recovered. When I realized I was up ~2k I stopped since I thought I might be exploiting something. I sold off all my ectos and decided to quit while I was ahead. I made a thread with some SS’s yesterday, it’s buried a few pages back now.

Einlanzer.1627:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Harper.4173:

nachtnebel.9168:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.

I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.

Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.

They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.

Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to on a slower auto attack with a direct component of 0.3. This means they are hitting for ~300-400 damage with crits of 900-1000. Less than half that of warrior, and with a weaker bleed.

Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.

Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.

We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.

+1

I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.

This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.

But that’s how weapons have always worked. You just never noticed until now because conditions sucked before.

No condition user in the game is using greatsword on warrior to play conditions. It is a POWER weapon. Similarly no power user should be using a sword, since it is a CONDITION weapon. It has always worked like this, the problem is that conditions aren’t worthless now, so no one noticed until now that some condition weapons do too much direct damage.

I mean if you want to argue that weapons shouldn’t be pigeonholed into power/conditions then please show me a viable power build on necro that uses scepter? or maybe a viable condition build on guardian that uses hammer? Every weapon has a role already, some of them just need to be balanced now.

If you just nerf conditions then you have solved nothing. You still have conditions weapons that do great direct damage and condition damage, and some condition weapons that do the same condition damage but no direct damage.

It’s not a binary, it’s a spectrum. Some weapons are designed to be mostly power-exclusive, and some are designed to be mostly condition-exclusive. Most are in the middle somewhere and intended to be at least mostly viable with either/or.

That said, I do agree that the condition damage problem is mostly related to individual skills as opposed to conditions as a whole.

That would have been ok if gear was set up that way. But currently you have 100% direct damage gear (zerker/assassin), 100% condition damage gear (Rabid/Carrion/Rampagers), and 90% condition + 90% direct damage gear (Sinister).

So either sinister needs to be nerfed significantly, or weapons need to be either or, not both and.

Krait runes (45% bleeding) + Rare veggie pizza (40%) + Toxic focusing crystals (+10%) = 95% condition duration out of a maximum of 100%. Most classes also have a condition duration trait for their primary condition.

Substitute krait runes for other condition runes if your primary condition isn’t bleed.

Reaper Rain.5186:

Did you know I bought a mystic forge for 1000g since Anet said they would never bring it back, then like a week latter it is 300g and back in the game? I’m very very upset.

Please show where they guaranteed they would never bring it back? I’m pretty sure Anet has always said they could bring back rare items at any time.

Harper.4173:

nachtnebel.9168:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.

I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.

Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.

They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.

Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to on a slower auto attack with a direct component of 0.3. This means they are hitting for ~300-400 damage with crits of 900-1000. Less than half that of warrior, and with a weaker bleed.

Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.

Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.

We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.

+1

I completely agree. Nerf certain skills, not conditions as a whole.
Currently Bleed is even underpowered, it got nerfed unless you have more than 2051 condition damage. It’s not Bleeds fault that you die so fast, it’s the fault of the direct damage component of certain skills that should be removed or at the very least scaled down.

This i cannot agree with. You’re saying that some weapons must now be played in a mandatory way – conditions. I don’t think they will agree with this.
I think the primary way to fix this is to address the conditions themselves. Otherwise you’ll make weapons unusable unless condi or power.

But that’s how weapons have always worked. You just never noticed until now because conditions sucked before.

No condition user in the game is using greatsword on warrior to play conditions. It is a POWER weapon. Similarly no power user should be using a sword, since it is a CONDITION weapon. It has always worked like this, the problem is that conditions aren’t worthless now, so no one noticed until now that some condition weapons do too much direct damage.

I mean if you want to argue that weapons shouldn’t be pigeonholed into power/conditions then please show me a viable power build on necro that uses scepter? or maybe a viable condition build on guardian that uses hammer? Every weapon has a role already, some of them just need to be balanced now.

If you just nerf conditions then you have solved nothing. You still have conditions weapons that do great direct damage and condition damage, and some condition weapons that do the same condition damage but no direct damage.

Einlanzer.1627:

I think many players are pointing out that it’s not so much the conditions themselves that are OP, but some of the skills that apply conditions were mis-tuned. Especially burning conditions.

pretty much this. Many skills are still tuned for duration stacking instead of intensity stacking. The cast times, durations and number of stacks on these skills need to be fixed BEFORE any damage formulas are changed.

I am sitting at 2100 base condition damage using krait runes, and a sigil of malice.

Here is my highest so far, with every buff I could get:

Well it’s obvious that some people want their zerker characters to be meta and no one else. Those days are over, they aren’t coming back so I won’t even respond to those people.

I think the biggest problem isn’t with the overall damage numbers but for individual skills.

Lets take a sword warrior for example. They aren’t the most extreme example but they make a simple point.

They apply bleed primarily with sword. Their sword auto attack applies an 8 second bleed in an AOE, with a direct damage modifier of 0.6. This means a full sinister warrior is doing 140 damage with a bleed and an additional ~800 direct damage or 2000 damage with a crit. Why is the direct damage component so high? This is a condition weapon.

Look at necro, their primary bleed attack is scepter auto, which does a bleed to a single target (not AOE) with a base duration of 5s (as opposed to on a slower auto attack with a direct component of 0.3. This means they are hitting for ~300-400 damage with crits of 900-1000. Less than half that of warrior, and with a weaker bleed.

Now take that and multiply it by 10x for classes like ele, engineer and guardian right now, who can stack up 10 stacks of Burning in addition to large hitting direct attacks.

Condition weapons need to have their direct damage DRASTICALLY reduced. A condition user should do damage through conditions, and a power user should do damage through direct attacks.

We are OP because right now you can do 100% power, 100% condition or 90% power PLUS 90% condition.

I did 200 ascended rolls, ended up with enough component to make a forge conduit, and made ~2000g after selling all my extra ectos.

Obviously this is not a representative sample, but 200 rolls was a pretty good amount.

Problems with the patch:

1. Burning is OP… reduce by half

2. Extra traits gave too much of a damage increase. Up to 20% direct damage increase in most cases…. Too late no going back, increase all enemy HP by 30%.

3. Quickness is OP now. Instant 50% damage increase which stacks. I had 50s of quickness at teq… either cap quickness at 10s, or reduce it to 25% damage increase

4. Buff to zerker gear further exasperated the problem… Increase enemy armor by 10% to compensate.

5. Boons are over the top in general. 25 stacks of might, and 100% fury uptime are essentially baseline now. I have never seen these boons drop off in the group since the patch. This is ANOTHER 20% damage increase… significantly reduce boon durations.

So overall direct damage has seen a: 20% increase from traits + 50% increase from quickness + 10% increase from stats + 20% increase from boons = 100% direct damage increase over before.

That’s right, direct damage users are doing DOUBLE the damage they did before the patch when in a group. Then add in the ridiculous burn damage and that accounts for 99% of your problems.

Aeolus.3615:

On some classes/build wins who atacks first, is this the new insta condi game mode? You(players) are being forced to take condi build overall to melt anything that crosses your screen and doest matter the other person build(stats, he will loose if not atacking with conditions), melts who spams more condis.
Lords on wvw are being killed under 3-5 seconds by just 5-8 players with condis, now imagine the players, also guardian consecrations take longer time to cast, being forced to play one build is also awfull for a mmo.

Other than burning can you explain to me how conditions are OP now? Bleed was nerfed, so if it wasn’t OP before the patch then it is fine now. Are you saying torment is doing too much damage? poison?

People keep saying that conditions are the cause of this crazy damage yet say nothing about:

1. 4 extra traits for everyone, usually including 1-2 +10% direct damage traits
2. Buff to zerker gear
3. stackable quickness (i’ve had up to 50s of quickness at teq….)
4. Boon spam everywhere (guards, rangers and thieves can stacks 20 MINUTES of fury)

Once again, burning needs a significant damage reduction, but I have not heard a single argument against the other conditions yet…

conditions “seem” OP right now because most classes condition applying attacks also do insane direct damage.

Obviously burn is OP, no need to argue about that one, damage there needs to be halved.

However bleed was nerfed in this patch so I can’t imagine it is considered OP. Confusion, torment, and poison were only increased slightly so they aren’t a problem.

So why does it seem like condition specs are doing insane damage… well because sinister gear + conditions + direct damage is broken.

Condition specs should apply 100-200 direct damage with every condition applying attack. 99% of their damage should come solely from conditions. Currently classes like warrior, ele, guard, thief, engineer, ranger, and mesmer can apply huge direct damage while also stacking up big condition stacks.

If you want to look at how condition damage should be then look at necro. No one is dying to a necros scepter attack which does 200 dmg per hit, or a staff mark which does 500 damage on a crit.

Any attack that applies a condition should do little to no direct damage, i.e how every condition class in every other mmo on the planet functions.

You can’t balance a game where you can maximize both condition damage and direct damage in the same build, because then you can’t do either or, you have to do both and.

TLDR:
You can’t buff conditions and still let direct damage components of the attacks hit for 4k. Remove the direct damage component from condition central attacks.

JonPeters.5630:

Just getting these out there so we know we are all in agreement:

1) Conditions seem a bit strong
2) World bosses are currently too easy
3) There are some bugged skills and traits
4) There are some overpowered builds

We won’t fix it all at once but these are four large topics we are talking about. In the meantime keep the feedback and bug reports coming, and I guess farm up some world bosses. We are dedicating time towards these issues and are intending to resolve them as quickly as possible. As we have said before, the live environment differs too greatly from anything we can reliably simulate internally so big changes like today’s build will cause things to sometimes change at an alarming rateTM.

Thanks for your patience,

Jon

Considering you NERFED bleeding I don’t think it is a bit strong, I think it is a bit weak.

Burn is a LOT strong.

Due to sinister gear hybrid builds are super OP. Condition applying attacks should have little to no direct damage component.

Genlog.4983:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Sarevok.2638:

Maybe this is a knee jerk reaction to the absolutely insane damage teq now takes from conditions, he goes down in a quarter of the time it took before.

proof that it is due to conditions as opposed to the 20-30% direct damage increase? or just trying to get conditions nerfed because you don’t like them?

they increase the stacks on teq not 10 or 25 max but over 80 stacks ore more
so teq was totally bleeding to dead in seconds

i saw his hp go down so fast i think wtf
some world bosses are all ready to easy like shatty and fire ele

and with this new update teq and jormag will be down in a few min also
i really like to see a good world boss fight that many player need to fight for it

and not pew pew and he is dead up to the next 1 not really i like to see from a good boss fight

Teq has ~50,000,000 HP…. bleeds do MAX 150 damage per stack at level 80, that is with full condition gear and 25 stacks of might. 80 stacks of bleed would do 12,000 dps… it would take 70 minutes to kill him with bleeds even if everyone wasn’t downscaled…. try again.

Odd since bleed wasn’t buffed…

maybe you are talking about the extra 4 traits all classes get? or the gear boost on power gear? or the boon spam that is now everywhere?

I will concede that burning is completely over the top, but the other conditions were either not buffed at all, or only buffed a little.

Sarevok.2638:

Maybe this is a knee jerk reaction to the absolutely insane damage teq now takes from conditions, he goes down in a quarter of the time it took before.

proof that it is due to conditions as opposed to the 20-30% direct damage increase? or just trying to get conditions nerfed because you don’t like them?

Westwater.1095:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

When every player does 10k damage now, even 500 stacks of bleed from pure condition users would only add 75k dps. A pittance compared to 100 zerker players doing 10k dps now.

You’re ignoring the fact that conditions are not the ONLY damage a condi user will deal. They are still going to deal direct damage the same way a zerker does now, and if they’re using Sinister gear like most condi users should then it’s not going to be a hugely immense reduction in direct DPS when you’re just missing a little power and crit damage.

depends entirely on your class. A condition spec necro does ~200 direct damage dps.

A condition spec ele/warrior/engineer does 5-6k direct damage dps in addition to conditions. Their direct damage should either be significantly scaled down or necros direct damage should be scaled up. Probably the former. The problem is currently they increased both condition damage and direct damage and allowed certain specs to maximize both.

Bleed damage wasn’t changed. It was originally supposed to be buffed but they reverted it.

What you are seeing is the power creep from direct damage.

1. Everyone get FOUR additional traits- This gives everyone an immediate 15-20% damage boost.

2. Stats were moved to gear instead of trait lines. Anyone wearing power gear will have more power now than they did before the patch, further increasing damage.

3. Boons are everywhere now. Pretty much every class can spam endless boons now, meaning you gain further crit/damage/quickness then before the patch

4. Burning is OP right now. This will almost certainly be nerfed, but buring was significantly buffed.

When every player does 10k damage now, even 500 stacks of bleed from pure condition users would only add 75k dps. A pittance compared to 100 zerker players doing 10k dps now.

Zerker is much stronger now. Since stats went from traits to gear all that extra power went to power primary gear like zerker. Also since you get 4 extra traits you generally get 10-20% more damage which is amplified by using zerker gear.

Overall zerker geared players are doing ~30% more damage now. World bosses sort of just dissolve…

Overall if you can epidemic some burn stacks our dps rocks.

Burn will obviously be nerfed into oblivion within a few days, but it is fun while it is here.

Bleed dps is improved, but you need duration utilities/food to get big numbers. Switching to staff seems to be a total loss in dps now. I open with staff then swap and never look back.

I was getting 5k bleeds on average, ticked up to 8k at one point, about 900 dmg from poison too. I think we are actually in an ok place in PvE now. PvP is a little more problematic.

As a bleed ranger what you are noticing is the increased power from gear and the addition of FOUR extra traits.

Bleed was only changed 2 damage per tick, so you aren’t feeling any additional damage from conditions unless you are getting above 25 stacks.

This seems to be a common misconception that i’ve seen today. Damage is increased from 4 traits, extra power, and overall build buffs. Bleed was not buffed, only had the cap removed.

If you do a lot of burn damage though that could be significant sicne burn is super OP right now.

Randulf.7614:

Anyone noticed teq or wurm being easier?

Initial teq burn phase was 90 seconds lol

Apparently condition necros are stupid op and need to be nerfed. doing 5k dps is “just insane” and “totally not intended”.

There were simply too many changes at once, and people seem to be attributing ALL of the increased damage to conditions.

I tried to explain that everyone got 4 extra traits, and power scaling on gear got an overall increase since everyone was wearing power gear already…. got told I was an idiot…

I tried explaining that many people got enough traits to increase their damage 20% due to an extra GM… got told I was too dumb to play the game.

Enjoy being semi-viable while you can, the masses won’t rest until conditions are nerfed back to where they were before the patch.

I’m currently at 2100 condition damage exactly. With no food/utility, krait runes, and a malice sigil. No stacking sigil or might either.

That will put me at 2100+250+100+70 +300 = 2800 max with full might and stacks.

Edit: however with no duration you pretty much NEED 100% uptime of food/utility to maintain a decent stack of conditions on anything.

dragon.9350:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Broken.1386:

Lol. Baiting people into buying ectos. Nice try I suppose.

nope i’m quite serious…

got enough components to make a MF conduit too

lol nice try but even wiki says and i quote

Notes
The number of conduits is limited, because the only source of the components to forge one, the Mystic Chest, was removed from the game as part of the September 25, 2012 game update.

so i am with a few people here this is nothing more then an ecto sink hole and a guy trying to jack up ecto prices

lol might want to go try the patch out… they reintroduced the conduit components.

Also you can’t manipulate ecto prices, the very idea of it is absurd once you realize how many ectos flow through the market in a given day.

as I corrected in my original post, it is a new high rollers gamble. Once you finish the first 10,000g achievement you unlock a vendor with even higher gambling stakes.

dragon.9350:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Broken.1386:

Lol. Baiting people into buying ectos. Nice try I suppose.

nope i’m quite serious…

got enough components to make a MF conduit too

i have to agree it a ecto drive up run cause even wiki and i quote

Notes[edit]
The number of conduits is limited, because the only source of the components to forge one, the Mystic Chest, was removed from the game as part of the September 25, 2012 game update.

so there for you are actualy scamming people in a driving the price of ecto and in a way it market manipulation and if anet thinks that you are de stablizing the market
they can ban you they done it before remember the karma merchant that alot exploited

You’re embarrassing yourself, quit while you’re behind.

pdavis.8031:

So we got a heads up about the changes to condition damage awhile ago.

From that post:
•Bleeding: •The formula for this condition has been re scaled to account for this new behavior.of damaging conditions and to push more focus on the damage onto the condition damage stat.
•New damage over time: 2+(0.3*Level)+(0.075 * Condition Damage)
(https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/June-23-Specialization-Changes/first)

And now it todays patch notes:
•Bleeding: •The formula for this condition has been rescaled to account for the new behavior of damaging conditions and to put more focus on the condition damage stat.
•New damage over time: 2 + (0.25 * Level) + (0.06 * Condition Damage)

So it remained basically the same, but with a +2 modifier.

Was this intentional? Or was it a typo?
Can we get some clarification on this please?
Thanks!

The original had a break even point at around 700 condition damage. The new nerfed formula has a break even point of around 2050 condition damage.

With the previous formula with 2100 condition damage you would do 183.5 dps per stack

with the new formula you do 148 dps per stack, or a 20% nerf.

pdavis.8031:

Galandil.9641:

So, as far as bleeding goes, the formula is the same as before, except a fixed “+2” per tick.

Before: 0.25*lvl + 0.06*condi dmg
Now: 2 + 0.25*lvl + 0.06*condi dmg

Correction:
Before: 0.25*lvl + 0.06*condi damage
Now: 2+(0.3*Level)+(0.075 * Condition Damage)

so a +.05 increase in the level modifier and a +.015 increase in condition damage modifier. As well as a +2 increase in the base damage.

That was what we were hoping for. The actual changes just added a +2, and reverted the scaling to 0.06

Well they seemed to have buffed burning. 3 stacks of burn can kill someone in 2 seconds… and most classes can stack like 6 stacks…

I’m thinking it’s bugged. Necro is worthless now with the current bleed nerf.

Broken.1386:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Broken.1386:

Lol. Baiting people into buying ectos. Nice try I suppose.

nope i’m quite serious…

got enough components to make a MF conduit too

..I take back what I said.. How in the hell. Which one of the three options did you buy?

The ascended one… costs 250 ectos +100g, but seems to return 300 ectos and 120g on average.

still selling ectos, so I don’t have all my gold back yet….

A few of my guildies tried it and seem to have lost gold… so I may just be having the luckiest day of my life… still should look into it though.

Broken.1386:

Lol. Baiting people into buying ectos. Nice try I suppose.

nope i’m quite serious…

got enough components to make a MF conduit too

It seems I just had the luckiest day of my life. Most people are reporting losses on the vendor.

Use at your own risk.

I saw it briefly then I crashed… The streaming download wasn’t happy… gunna let it finish I guess.

Looks significantly different than I thought it would.

Mauvs.1605:

I think choose Unyielding Blast will be better. And Spire still good because of the extra vun and the signet mastery.

That is going to be a tough choice once reaper is available… do you take spite for the vuln/chill or do you take Soul Reaping for the vuln and fear/burn?

I guess for now i’m just in a holding pattern until reaper is out… A second look at spite seems like it might be worth it over soul reaping atm. or take SR and Spite depending on the viability of the group support from BM.

I’ll miss my condition necro. Unfortunately he does more DPS to himself then the enemy now. My full rotation will bring me from 30k to 5k health now without the enemy hitting me once…

With conditions becoming theoretically viable in PvE now, has anyone worked out a good condition spec to try later today?

My initial thought was:

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQFrAKcBPg~

However the soul reaping line is kind of lackluster for conditions, as is the blood magic line. Soul reaping will be more useful once reaper is released, as will some of the chill traits, but right now what will people be taking other than curses?

Dhummfire is just sad, and not worth it at all, but I don’t know what to replace it with.
Blood magic supplies some much needed party support, but does nothing in particular for conditions.

I took MoC over terror since without the reaper chill on fear no one will let you use fear in PvE.

Thoughts?

I have to assume this is some kind of joke. They can’t possibly think that there is any “balance” at all here can they? I think they must have designed the necro changes in a dark room separate from all the other class designers and decided that the overall power in the game should be halved while the other class teams decided the power should be doubled.

Well the expansion is still rather expensive, however this is a very nice gesture and much more acceptable.

Well I decided to look at your last example of EQ2

This one was more foreign to me, and also more complicated.

F2P players get 2 character slots, though you can upgrade to silver for a one time fee of $5 to get an additional 2 character slots as well as various other perks.

They have added 16 expansions over the games very long lifetime…

Unfortunately for GW2 12 of those expansions are free, one was broken up into gem store items and was hard to put a value on and the last 3 are only $15-30 each. They sell character slots for $10 just like GW2, meaning you can get the expansion + character slot for a total of $25-$40. which is $20-35 cheaper than a GW2 expansion + character slot.

So in total we have:

1. WoW… completely wrong, 50 character slots for free, added a character slot of every expansion that put the classes over the per server character limit
2. LOTRO… completely wrong, all class adding expansions included a character slot and were cheaper than GW2 expansions.
3. EQ2… Complicated. Same model as GW2, most expansion were free, paid expansions with purchase of a character slot were on average $30 cheaper than GW2.

Would you like to try some different games? I think you might be better off stopping while you are behind…

Not to put a further damper on your thread… but you say LOTRO added 3 classes, yet you somehow you think you can lie and tell us that not every expansion that added a class also added a character slot for that class… which seems odd since we are all capable of using google…

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/LOTRO_Store_Mines_of_Moria

Arkblue.6129:

WoW has 50 character slots, ten per server, raised to eleven with the addition of the monk class. Also, you can create one character per class.

Where do you get your sources?

lol owned….

guess this is /thread

SleepingDragon.1596:

Windsagio.1340:

echo.2053:

Windsagio.1340:

Sena.2761:

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Do we get tired of going in circles with this? They were stand alone games that were compatible with Prophecies. If they had come with no character slots they’d be unplayable.

I do wonder at the time if the question was, “Prophecies came with 4 slots, but factions only comes with 2!”

Every account has 2 complimentary character slots. Each of the three campaigns adds 2 slots to the account.

failing to do simple research when you haven’t played the previous game makes it trolly.

Ironically those expansions were stand alone expansions at a value of a stand alone game, here we have a few maps plus rebuying the core at a standalone price.

You missed the point entirely in your desire for pedantry.

Nightfall and Factions had to come with character slots because they were standalone products. It’s an invalid comparison based on an essential lack of understanding of the GW1 business model.

Not to mention not understanding that the GW1 business model and the GW2 business model are massively different, so that’s at least 2 reasons it’s an invalid comparison.

Nightfall and Factions are not standalone products. You need the original Guild Wars Prophecy to play them. Have you even played the original Guild Wars to be saying misleading things like that?

Apparently you haven’t lol… awkward…

on topic… I am absolutely entitled to spend my $50 how I please. I earned it and have no requirement to give it to Anet. They have only shown $15-20 of content so I will give them no more than $15-20. No matter how much anyone kicks and screams and calls me names you can’t make me spent my money on HoT. Well at least not until the liberals get involved and make it illegal not to purchase HoT.

The real problem is that they have not revealed $50 worth of content… so far we have seen $15-20 worth…

Please show me how I can access the gem store armors, weapons, account upgrades, character slots, utility boosters, toys and minis without using the gem store?

You claim it is optional, yet I can’t find out how to access this content without the gemstore. it seems to be required for the majority of the content.

My $15 other mmo sub includes all these items, so I know I am getting them.

Also it is funny how you only mention the most expensive MMO here, yet leave out the majority of the reasonably priced ones… See SWTOR, Wildstar, LOTRO, EvE., etc…

And of course you mention price only and don’t discuss content/price which would look really really bad for gw2…

Unless they have been hiding 99% of the content I am not going to buy HoT at this price. It must be a joke…

Wildstar is going to F2P and SWTOR’s 4th expansion which promises to be a similar size to GW2’s is going to launch at $20… Sorry you just lost my business.

SWTOR just got the release date for their 4th(!!!) expansion… It was launched at the same time as GW2…

Any chance we’ll get the release date for our first expansion soon?

ronpierce.2760:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

I don’t understand the vulnerability they attached to CC.
If we were to take a poll right now what class is the weakest across all three platforms, what would our answer be?

Engineer.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL…

sorry that was a good one…

Anyway, on topic, necro got slapped repeatedly in the face. Probably won’t even be worth it to play anymore. Not only did necro get nerfed, but all the power creep will make them even worse than they are currently, which I didn’t think was even possible before this…

Lol at rangers and guards complaining… Two most OP classes in the game whining… classic…

Yet somehow Necros STILL get nerfed to the ground even though they were already 1000 tiers below ranger and guard.

On the plus side my ele went from OP to super extra OP… so I guess that’s a plus lol.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So with the nerf to dumbfire combined with the nerf to lingering curses… is it even worth it for condition necros to spec into that line? Even as a reaper a 3s burn will only let you get 2-3 stacks of burn on our target. A 20s scepter AA would be better than 3s of burn in every possible situation that I can think of.

Maybe condition necros should spec into curses/blood magic/reaper now?

Nah, they should go Spite for Signets of Suffering, Chill of Death, and probably Bitter Chill.

I don’t know how useful that will be. Vuln is so common now that I feel like every person/enemy in the game being attacked by more than 1 person will have a perma 25 vuln. So Bitter chill won’t be nearly as useful as it sounds. Chill of death will deal next to no damage since we’ll need to be in rabid gear mostly, and reaper already gets 100% chill uptime so no need for the extra chill. Signets of Suffering is sort of meh, I guess it is nice, but I don’t run signets very often, and the lauge proc trait kinda sucks anyway.

With blood you get:
Siphon with attacks
Blood Bond which will trigger on every enemy
Vampiric Presense which gives you more life steal + life steal to all your faster attacking allies
And then either unholy martyr for LF sustain or transfusion for group support.

It isn’t ideal for a condition spec, but at least it is something.

Though I suppose that Soul Reaping still gives you marks buffs, fear of death and foot in the grave. That might be better for PvP where LF generation is a problem and terror will be standard.

PvE things are a little less clear since you almost have to take master of corruption over terror.