Guild Wars 2

Turk.5460:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

As someone else stated, you already lost this one, buddy. It’s OK, one day you’ll understand how to fight against disadvantaged players. You just gotta keep practicing!

Ok lets see what statements I made with the reasoning I used to back up my claims:

“Sorry but immunity to all soft CC, 6-8 consecutive dodges and the ability to double teleport 1800 range away (not including shadowstep for another 1200) with one of the lowest cool down stunbreak+block in the game while also having enough stealth to ensure you won’t be seen for enough time that you cannot be tracked.

I mean sure it’s more risky than say wanderer druid but in terms of risk for reward its way more rewarding than risky."

“The rest of the dislike comes from how apart from shadowstep thieves have very low cool downs on thier skills. Adding on the ability to be immune to all soft CC and get away from absolutely everything except another thief or druid longbow if they start rapid fire at close range as they try to run. It’s like a lot of other HoT specs there’s very little risk and a lot of reward vs anything that has moderate to high risk.”

I have given reasons as to why thief is low risk backed up by factual aspects to back up my claim, you can look up the skills in game or the wiki, you however have only given biased passive aggressive opinionated responses.

You then decided to make this lovely claim:

“If you’re dying to a Thief in WvW 1v1, and you believe yourself a skilled player, then your build and/or gear is not suited for 1v1. The only thing that a thief currently is suited to kill 1v1 on equal footing (both gear and 1v1 built), is another thief.”

Sindrener winning 1v1s
Aurora Legend showing thief can not only win 1v1 but outnumbered.
Touch of Shadow with various group and solo fights.

So here’s some proof countering your claim that thief cannot win a 1v1.

Now, I don’t visit hipster passive aggressive websites but I do access Wikipedia and here’s something about burden of proof and logical fallacies:

“When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo.”

Except no status quo has been set and going through the thread you find.

Apolo, Zenith, OriOri, Chorazin, Gebrechen, Spartacus, Kirochique, JimmydT, Coro, Clownmug, Zinkz, BeepBoopBop, Choppy all seem to think thief is strong or at least not as weak as you do, that’s 13.

Babazhook, JonnyForgotten, Fat Disgrace, KrHome, Blaquefyre, Straegen, Ich, Siphon, Bartsimpsons, Coronit think thief is not OP and thus agree with you, that’s 10.

So going by this thread alone the status quo is siding more to thief certainly not being weak and that’s without mentioning people like DeceiverX who think aspects need toning down with thief but only in tandem with other classes, I haven’t included those people as they have points for both sides of the argument.

“One way in which one would attempt to shift the burden of proof is by committing a logical fallacy known as the argument from ignorance. It occurs when either a proposition is assumed to be true because it has not yet been proved false or a proposition is assumed to be false because it has not yet been proved true.”

The fact is your position is a logical fallacy as well because you have neither backed up your claims with any reasoning at all outside of l2p nor are you arguing from a generally accepted position of fact. You certainly are not in the status quo as more people in this thread think thief can 1v1.

Turk.5460:

apharma.3741:

Azukas.1426:

apharma.3741:

Turk.5460:

apharma.3741:

Turk.5460:

If you’re dying to a Thief in WvW 1v1, and you believe yourself a skilled player, then your build and/or gear is not suited for 1v1. The only thing that a thief currently is suited to kill 1v1 on equal footing (both gear and 1v1 built), is another thief. Everything else is due to a PEBKAC.

Lol, you’re just bad at thief then, thief (DP at least) will eat revs alive, necro, power mes, any form of power ele and can have a good chance against non eternal champion warriors. Before you come back with “play thief if you think it’s good” I do and have played thief in WvW, I just find it an abysmally boring class.

Not sure how it raids against druids after the CA cool down increase, I’m sure deceiver would be able to enlighten us on how that goes.

Oh you’ve played thief! Good! Now show us the videos of you so easily winning all your fights. Shouldn’t be a hard task for someone so confident. Video capture software is incredibly easy to use, in fact most modern GPU software comes with it standard. Until then, your rebuttle is just another whine from someone who doesn’t understand their own profession, nor Thief.

Lol guess I hit a nerve, you’re the one who made the claim others had to L2P, there’s tons of videos of thieves destroying the classes mentioned. I have nothing to prove, most people who understand thief know DP has it easy vs what I mentioned, it’s only you that seems to disagree.

Sindrener, Teressimo, Touch of shadows, Aurora Legend all have roaming videos you can watch just off the top of my head.

Check mate you lost bro. Time to put up the vid or just bow out gracefully at this point.

Why would I want to make videos for someone who can’t play his class? Like I say, watch the people who main thief and care to upload stuff, common themes in the videos are: killing necros, power revs, power ele, mesmers and the other classes mentioned with the occasional kill of condi mesmers.

Way to throw the same l2p I did, an equivalent to the “no u!” squeal.

I think someone else already said this at you a few posts up, but I want to see you, (someone who probably has not a lot of hours playing thief, but claims how easy it is) make a video of how easy it is. What does mentioning pro streamers who have obviously mastered the class so anything for your argument. Getting desperate, eh?

Chop chop, you make the claim, the burden of proof lies upon you, kiddo.

I just sent back the L2P at you because you’re as likely to upload proof of your claims as much as anyone else. I don’t make videos of GW2, people who are interested in doing that can go do that, besides we all know making a video is a trap and here’s why:

If you upload a lot of killing people easily others will claim the others a noobs, bads etc. If you fight someone noteworthy you will lose because as I said before, I don’t main thief as I think it’s a boring class to play.

You made the claim “The only thing that a thief currently is suited to kill 1v1 on equal footing (both gear and 1v1 built), is another thief” which is a flat out lie. Thief eats power mes, necro, anything that isn’t bunker ele as well as non eternal champion warriors. You know if you aren’t going the whole setting up 1v1s where you change weapons and traits to counter that specific class/build.

draxynnic.3719:

apharma.3741:

1. It seems doubtful ANet would intentionally put a story step you cannot avoid to do a double bluff of making you doubt it’s Lazarus then reveal it really is him. I say this as most beings in Tyria won’t trust Lazarus at all anyway so it accomplishes very little having a false accusation going on as many have already outright said they don’t trust him to his face.

Unless it becomes plot-relevant in some other fashion – such as Lazarus wanting to retrieve the final aspect.

Possible but again why would ANet go to the lengths of explicitly saying and putting out an unavoidable mention of Lazarus not being able to be revived without the final aspect?

Narratively it doesn’t make any sense to say he can’t be revived then have him go on a hunt to get the last aspect and us try to stop him. I guess ANet could have a plot twist where they have us hunt it down out of irony or something as we should have mursaat.

That’s without mentioning the extremely obvious other question posed by a situation where he’s revived without the final aspect. If he could have been revived without the final aspect, why didn’t the white mantle do so? They wouldn’t exactly care about blowing up a bloodstone, especially when they did it anyway, so it’s not like anything was stopping them going to those fanatical lengths.

As far as we know he absorbed the bloodstone after being revived not the opposite and indeed the wing 3 end of raid casts doubt on whether or not he was revived.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Only two things need need to happen and this is more about two conditions and not Mesmer as a class, and those are:

Remove The damage on Tick for both Confusion and Torment, only have the damage on skill use and damage on movement.

Those were there/added for PvE purposes only, these changes are only needed for WvW and PvP since they are splitting skills already it should be a simple adjustment.

Wasn’t torment always like that with a DoT and you take double damage for moving? At least it’s always been like that when I started about a year after the game came out, they changed the damage formula for it but at 1200 condition damage it does less as far as I can tell than pre condition stacking changes.

Azukas.1426:

apharma.3741:

Turk.5460:

apharma.3741:

Turk.5460:

If you’re dying to a Thief in WvW 1v1, and you believe yourself a skilled player, then your build and/or gear is not suited for 1v1. The only thing that a thief currently is suited to kill 1v1 on equal footing (both gear and 1v1 built), is another thief. Everything else is due to a PEBKAC.

Lol, you’re just bad at thief then, thief (DP at least) will eat revs alive, necro, power mes, any form of power ele and can have a good chance against non eternal champion warriors. Before you come back with “play thief if you think it’s good” I do and have played thief in WvW, I just find it an abysmally boring class.

Not sure how it raids against druids after the CA cool down increase, I’m sure deceiver would be able to enlighten us on how that goes.

Oh you’ve played thief! Good! Now show us the videos of you so easily winning all your fights. Shouldn’t be a hard task for someone so confident. Video capture software is incredibly easy to use, in fact most modern GPU software comes with it standard. Until then, your rebuttle is just another whine from someone who doesn’t understand their own profession, nor Thief.

Lol guess I hit a nerve, you’re the one who made the claim others had to L2P, there’s tons of videos of thieves destroying the classes mentioned. I have nothing to prove, most people who understand thief know DP has it easy vs what I mentioned, it’s only you that seems to disagree.

Sindrener, Teressimo, Touch of shadows, Aurora Legend all have roaming videos you can watch just off the top of my head.

Check mate you lost bro. Time to put up the vid or just bow out gracefully at this point.

Why would I want to make videos for someone who can’t play his class? Like I say, watch the people who main thief and care to upload stuff, common themes in the videos are: killing necros, power revs, power ele, mesmers and the other classes mentioned with the occasional kill of condi mesmers.

Turk.5460:

apharma.3741:

Turk.5460:

If you’re dying to a Thief in WvW 1v1, and you believe yourself a skilled player, then your build and/or gear is not suited for 1v1. The only thing that a thief currently is suited to kill 1v1 on equal footing (both gear and 1v1 built), is another thief. Everything else is due to a PEBKAC.

Lol, you’re just bad at thief then, thief (DP at least) will eat revs alive, necro, power mes, any form of power ele and can have a good chance against non eternal champion warriors. Before you come back with “play thief if you think it’s good” I do and have played thief in WvW, I just find it an abysmally boring class.

Not sure how it raids against druids after the CA cool down increase, I’m sure deceiver would be able to enlighten us on how that goes.

Oh you’ve played thief! Good! Now show us the videos of you so easily winning all your fights. Shouldn’t be a hard task for someone so confident. Video capture software is incredibly easy to use, in fact most modern GPU software comes with it standard. Until then, your rebuttle is just another whine from someone who doesn’t understand their own profession, nor Thief.

Lol guess I hit a nerve, you’re the one who made the claim others had to L2P, there’s tons of videos of thieves destroying the classes mentioned. I have nothing to prove, most people who understand thief know DP has it easy vs what I mentioned, it’s only you that seems to disagree.

Sindrener, Teressimo, Touch of shadows, Aurora Legend all have roaming videos you can watch just off the top of my head.

Turk.5460:

If you’re dying to a Thief in WvW 1v1, and you believe yourself a skilled player, then your build and/or gear is not suited for 1v1. The only thing that a thief currently is suited to kill 1v1 on equal footing (both gear and 1v1 built), is another thief. Everything else is due to a PEBKAC.

Lol, you’re just bad at thief then, thief (DP at least) will eat revs alive, necro, power mes, any form of power ele and can have a good chance against non eternal champion warriors. Before you come back with “play thief if you think it’s good” I do and have played thief in WvW, I just find it an abysmally boring class.

Not sure how it raids against druids after the CA cool down increase, I’m sure deceiver would be able to enlighten us on how that goes.

Core mesmer is pretty much obsolete in the current game. Everything does more damage than you and apart from saving others time by portaling them to the next objective you will not be any help.

Chronomancer on the other hand is excellent support through high amounts of boons sharing, specifically quickness and alacrity boosting the team. The rest of their kit comes in handy for reflects, blocks, invuln etc but you are support, you do damage but not much at all however you make it easier for everyone else.

I’m sure Xyonon will harp up about the condi build, highest DPS build and it’s core not elite. What he won’t say is it does a lot less than many other “DPS” classes do in the first minute and many still do a lot more damage without the single target only focus which makes it only useful on bosses.

If you’re just running around the open world, pick berserkers, use what you want, shatter burst anything that’s not elite with a few clones and mindwrack.

Stand The Wall.6987:

apharma.3741:

snipples

the game was built around counters, so what you propose I consider to be a bit too drastic. I do believe in giving each class a couple more tools though, and buffing underused/weak traits and such seems like a decent way to go about it.

It’s not about counter or not counter, it’s as Carighan described where classes need a distinct style and feel to how they play and approach universal aspects. It’s easy to describe with CC as it’s a very noticeable effect of losing control of your character but extends to other aspects too like conditions, active defense a and sustain.

Buffing traits and numbers won’t help if it doesn’t work at a conceptual level. It’s like phantasm builds in WvW, they don’t work because at its core they don’t live long enough to do the damage you need them to do.

You wouldn’t care about what dose of blood pressure tablets the doctor gave you if you’re supposed to be on an inhaler for asthma instead.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Condi shatter is a lot easier to handle then the older pu non chrono as a thief tbh.

Are people claiming thief it self is op or jus d/p? I sometimes see power d/d and s/d but they don’t get much hate at all.

D/D is mostly a one trick pony with not a whole lot going on outside of a “teleport onto a guy with precast C&D and backstab” sure it’s an instagib on anything remotely squishy if you can’t see them but that’s about it. By can’t see them I mean someone who is hiding round a corner to teleport or in a small scale fight where you don’t know it’s D/D yet.

S/D I honestly have only seen maybe 3 thieves in WvW running S/D since HoT so have no idea tbh.

The rest of the dislike comes from how apart from shadowstep thieves have very low cool downs on thier skills. Adding on the ability to be immune to all soft CC and get away from absolutely everything except another thief or druid longbow if they start rapid fire at close range as they try to run. It’s like a lot of other HoT specs there’s very little risk and a lot of reward vs anything that has moderate to high risk.

This is from a power shatter perspective though where even 0.5s lapse in attention will mean death. There’s just so little risk in the meta builds now vs non meta and all classes suffer, it’s especially hilarious seeing people act like berserker, DH, scrapper and rev are not part of the problem.

Windwalker.7421:

They used to do that pretty well too IMO, but then they clearly went into maintenance mode, and that whole E-sports crap gave them an excuse to ratchet down the patch cycles even further.

Especially now that they have the “tech” to tweak numbers on abilities where it only affects sPvP, they should be putting out patches at least once a month…even during the season. (You’re only tweaking, not hatcheting!) With the sheer amount of underused/useless traits, abilities, weapons, utilities, etc. they have no excuse not to tweak numbers in an attempt to make some of them a little more competitive in sPvP at least.

That would help but not doesn’t fix deep seated issues with the class.

Classes with poor stab should instead get a decent assortment of stunbreaks, it won’t protect you from CC like stab will but patient and careful use of them will be almost as good.

Classes with low cleansing ability should have high health to offset that extra damage you take by not being able to cleanse as often or have decent regen abilities.

Classes with poor access to blocks, blinds, invulnerability etc should have higher health regeneration (DS regen in case of necro) to offset the damage they will usually take.

This game is suffering from a lack of principles like that and the elite specs that do cover up a classes weaknesses have little to no trade off.

Then we get to the mechanics that just don’t work or scale terribly like pets and stealth.

It’s not a rant at you Windwalker as you are on the forums a lot, just saying the game cannot be salvaged by numbers tweaking and needs mechanical changes (albeit smaller ones with gradual tuning) also.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Zenith.7301:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Apolo.5942:

Thief on demand damage and on demand engage and disengage are just stupid, they can have 1 not both.

Tell that to Warrior, Druid,Mesmer, and a lesser extent Revenant.

Druid requires a resource build up, which is also ruined by reveal as CA has a cooldown unlike black powder>hs. Druid’s only gap creator is either staff 3 or greatsword 3 (and they rarely run both), so you get a 800 leap with travel time that also doesn’t break stuns.

More importantly, druid has garbage damage compared to thief, the burst damage isn’t even comparable outside a rapid fire which is not only a channeled ability that’s easily dodged or interrupted or reflected, but forces them into a weapon with no mobility or good defenses (knockback shot is easy to dodge as ever with the indicator and cast time).

Revenant can’t disengage from fights at all, don’t know what fantasy you’re trying to concoct here. It is one of the worst classes for roaming because it has no tools whatsoever to run away short of having a mob nearby they can phase traversal to.

Mesmer is not even comparable to thief because all you need to do to a condi mesmer is kite the clones and him. Mesmer has no chasing potential. It’s got a 30 sec cf blink with shorter range than shadow step and that’s as far as they can chase. Staff and scepter clones cannot hit fleeing targets as they interrupt their animations to chase and shatters need melee proximity.

Thief and warriors are the only classes that have ridiculous burst on top of immense disengage and chase potential.

You can run away from mesmers, engineers, guardians, necromancers, and druids; you cannot run away from thieves or warriors because they’re the classes with the best mobility in the game on top of the best spike damage power builds

Hmm easily able to due high Burst with Druid you must not be playing it right, and Staff along with Stealth from CA allow for great mobility and Disengage, don’t know what world you are living in, and yes Rev can Disengage using Skills like Phase Traversal and so on if you can’t think of ways to use the classes tools to benefit in any situation isn’t my fault, ( the two classes I play in WvW are Rev and Thief) and again that’s why I said to a lesser extent Revenants since they require targets or using skills other than Phase Traversal to Disengage.

And I guess you have never seen a decent Chronomancer, depending on the skill and build they can Disengage extremely well as well as Provide decent damage between Mimic, Blink, Continuum Split, and Phase Retreat on top of Stealth. Again it just takes skill and Class knowledge to make use of these resources.

again not my problem if you don’t know how to utilize these classes to their potential and outside the box.

all of those classes allow for braindead gameplay as well, again every class is Op in this game currently and every last class needs to be nerfed hard.

I guess you mean condi chrono but I’m more puzzled as to why people think they will lose to a mesmer with mimic?

I mean sure you can get some good 3600 teleporting going on but if you’re going down that route portal is several magnitudes better than mimic and can be used in CS to teleport to your target when you get teleported back to the more.

He isn’t wrong about a mesmers chasing potential, it’s pretty terrible and utilising phase retreat for going forward isn’t something I see done by 99% of mesmers I’ve seen in WvW that aren’t trying to and failing to be Helseth.

Still I do think that condi stealth camping mesmer needed nerfing but so too should every classes stealth access at the same time.

To sum up these changes you ask for:

Buff the least fun stuff to fight against like stealth camping with the pledge.
Buff numbers on stuff no-one ever uses because they mechanically make no sense or are mechanically not useful.
Make changes to things that make using the skills faceroll like blurred inscription change.

The only things I think have any merit in this post are arcane thievery cool down reduction, well of precognition change and signet of humility being 120s cool down.

Jayne.9251:

JemL.3501:

morrolan.9608:

JemL.3501:

Jeknar.6184:

I rather belive in the developer than in a random no-name player that have nothing to backup his claims.

same goes for you

Except there is the word of the developers on this very forum that it isn’t counted.

good to see they typed what some individuals wanted to read so they would calm down like politicians

developer words

Oh was it you that dropped this?

Can I have parts 1-3 please?

Rangerdeity.5847:

apharma.3741:

Xenesis.6389:

From the looks of the picture still have your keep.. so build some trebs and clear out the tower?

You also got a bad roll with a t3 server rolling down to t5, just going to have to wait till it blows over, not every week is going to be dreamland matchups, that’s the cost of having some randomness to the system.

If you look carefully at the picture you can see a few reasons why this won’t work.

1. Counter trebs are already up
2. They have at least 1 shield generator most likely 2 or 3
3. Enemy zerg is also near the tower (red dots on mini map) protecting it.

We can also assume from this snapshot that the keep is under attack as you can see one of the trebs arms in the upright firing position.

so what your telling me is at all times the enemy zerg has every tower sieged to the teeth and all siege manned. and these people are just standing around earning nothing doing nothing until you attack? honestly bro just PICK A DIFFERENT TARGET!

i have to avoid t3 towers behind keeps all the time hell i dont think your honestly supposed to be able to take those without going the extra 10 miles. the whole locational balance of EB is what makes it great.

smc can hit all one center tower per side and be hit by one center tower per side. each center tower can hit their respective keep and be hit by their respective keep. each outer tower can be hit by and hit their respective keep. so long as you keep your keep sieged your towers have protection so long as you hold an enemies tower you have opportunities to hit their keep. so long as you have center towers left you may push for smc so long as you own smc you may easily push for enemy center towers. the whole map is a giant game of border management. that said siege stacking and wall hugged catas need to be nerfed. perhaps if a cata is inside its splash damage it gets hit? and siege other than ballista and arrow carts cant be placed within 300m of each other?

Hey “bro” you might want to check the picture again, this is Veloka that was taken by blue and sieged up offering a staging ground for attacking the keep. The guy is complaining because he is red and when blue does this due to how they have vastly superior numbers there’s very little that can be done. A group of 50 will build defensive siege almost instantly offering no real way to counter unless you already prebuilt the siege.

The reason this is so bad is that without a WP in the keep the time taken to get anywhere in WvW vastly increases as well as your ability to move around.

Does Kodash do this all the time? I dunno but they can do it anytime they want and it’s indicative of the hilarious match ups and population balance.

Babazhook, sorry but if you consider berserker anywhere near balanced you clearly have a warped sense of risk and reward, you even listed some of the reasons it isn’t which is even more hilarious.

One of the reasons roaming is dead and duels don’t really happen is because this risk and reward is gone from most meta builds.

Just want to say it’s nice to see maturity from Xenesis, Ashen and Morrolan, when someone makes a mistake like that usually people go for the throat so to say. Nice to see people admit they can be wrong and others not be a kitten about it.

@BigEvs, in some ways the elite specs are overturned due to player feedback however the players were also in some ways mislead. It’s like how you’re not supposed to use leading questions if you want anyone in the world to not laugh at you in research and ANet certainly did something akin to leading questions.

I remember there was a discussion about gravity well and it’s 3 CCS in the mesmer forum, most would agree that the amount of CC it had was way too strong. However most also agreed that the float effect was so effin awesome that no-one wanted to see it go and there wasn’t a whole lot of ways around it. I guess they could have got rid of the initial knockdown and it have been a quick daze, then float then pull inward but it’s still 3 CC.

Still a lot of what was made too strong people didn’t expect the far too strong aspects to go through. Most people expected CoR on rev to be a 8s cool down, would have expected true shot to be 8s not stay at 4 etc but that didn’t happen.

JonnyForgotten.4276:

“Thief can’t be killed”. . . . . . . riiiigggghhht. . . . . . .

To be fair, I agree, dealing with a fast stealth based power thief can be really irritating, but that’s the nature of the high risk/ high reward playstyle. Do it right, thief deals a massive burst and target goes down. Do it wrong, thief misses, catches a burst, gets condi loaded, get stunlocked, etc, thief dies. Point being, that’s the trade being a thief. High offensive capability paired with little defense beyond mobility and stealth. It’s not overpowered, it’s not really unfair, it’s the nature of the class.

Sorry but immunity to all soft CC, 6-8 consecutive dodges and the ability to double teleport 1800 range away (not including shadowstep for another 1200) with one of the lowest cool down stunbreak+block in the game while also having enough stealth to ensure you won’t be seen for enough time that you cannot be tracked.

I mean sure it’s more risky than say wanderer druid but in terms of risk for reward its way more rewarding than risky.

babazhook.6805:

Zenith.7301:

babazhook.6805:

Zenith.7301:

Most of the thieves are power spec anyways and they can kill a revenant within the duration of basilisk and a knockdown.

Assuming they don’t headshot you to death because somebody at anet thought that making headshot spammable while shifting most of the damage to autoattacks and said interrupts doing 3k+ damage is anywhere close to balanced.

At least a mesmer you can catch and finish.

Thief just resets all day every day. It’s impossible for a thief to die if he doesn’t want to.

But somehow Phase Traversal and Ride the Lightning needed nerfs.

The entirety of WvW roaming is swarmed with thieves because the class can’t be punished for mistakes. Those teleports and 6+ dodges on top of stealth make sure of that.

Hyperbole does not an argument make. WvW is not “swarmed with thieves”. I see as many if not more warriors and rangers dragonhunters and mesmers. The most underepresented class is likely the Engineer. The rest are there with the numbers.

This is not an argument, as your anecdote is worth as little as anyone else’s.

There’s a reason why the forums are rife with thief/mesmer threads and not druid/engineer/DH ones.

Please offer your evidence that thieves swarm in WvW. The same people starting the same thread every second day is hardly “evidence” of anything. All it suggests to me is those people do not like the fact that they thief can get away from them due to its superior mobility , which by the way is by design.

This is what MOBILITY does. Some class will be best at it. If you feel that makes them OP play one. I look forward to the day when some Commander in WvW insists everyone log off their DH, Guardian, Druid, Ele, Warrior, Necro and bring in a thief instead as "they can never be killed "

Now you’re just twisting that person’s words and running away with it.

For roaming or low numbers thief cannot be punished as they can run away and reset. Once you get to a certain number of players though just the damage from them all attacking at once will kill someone who gets stuck for 2s. This is why map blobs are so effective as more people even if in minstrels will still do enlighten damage to kill a person in their way but that’s getting off the topic.

I see a lot of thieves running around and it is precisely for the reason that they can always run away. I’m a decent enough power mesmer that if they go in thinking I’m an easy kill I’ll smoke em faster than they can blink but the ones that are decent you will barely ever catch or kill. They can also follow you for when the situation is more favourable which is why people dislike thieves especially when you have 1-2 being kittens and wanting to follow and kill you.

Mobility or stealth should be an investment and a choice between mobility or stealth, not both, that’s what’s destroyed roaming in WvW since WvW was a thing.

Xenesis.6389:

From the looks of the picture still have your keep.. so build some trebs and clear out the tower?

You also got a bad roll with a t3 server rolling down to t5, just going to have to wait till it blows over, not every week is going to be dreamland matchups, that’s the cost of having some randomness to the system.

If you look carefully at the picture you can see a few reasons why this won’t work.

1. Counter trebs are already up
2. They have at least 1 shield generator most likely 2 or 3
3. Enemy zerg is also near the tower (red dots on mini map) protecting it.

We can also assume from this snapshot that the keep is under attack as you can see one of the trebs arms in the upright firing position.

Vargamonth.2047:

If asked a couple years back, my answer would have been a clear and loud NO!
With pretty much all the reliable damage ouptut being packed on instant or almost instant casts, Scepter ele was IMHO the prime example of bad design.

Right now I don’t really know what to say.
After all the elite specs, trait merging, sigil changes, … the game has evolved into an state where everything seems to have both ridiculous damage sources (be in the form instant or unreasonably short casts, spam or continous AoE pressure) and overtuned defenses to counter those. I guess there’s no way back at this point, so promoting the scepter to competitive level is probably not a problem at all.

To be fair sceptre on ele has always been in a weird spot, it’s a burst damage weapon but also a condi weapon. Doesn’t help it has some very long cast well telegraphed attacks that can be walked away from. At this point I’d say the sceptre needs a rework completely and the auto attacks need to allow you to keep pressure on targets effectively.

I laugh at people claiming ele burst is not telegraphed high damage, air attunement and lightning strike will not for a total of 3.5k on marauder, most classes will do more than that going to the bathroom.

Jeknar.6184:

Stand The Wall.6987:

a lot of people don’t like to be forced to use siege, as siege vs siege is really boring. braindead boring. zombie braindead boring.

there ya go I just explained the point of the thread to ya.

Do you realise that without siege, WvW would just be a huge K-train of zergs punching gates/walls while defenders aren’t able to do anything unless they match the enemy numbers numbers? (Somenthing that is quite rare these days)
Honestly, siege isn’t even THAT powerful as you people claim. Most siege is pretty useless since Meteor Shower can hit 90% of the siege placements, while the other 10% can be avoided. The only times siege is powerful is when the enemy already have the numbers to push you, which is just sillyness from their part since they could have jumped out and fought already. However, that’s not to blame on siege but on the players themselves.

You’re thinking of it the wrong way, the OP is complaining about a situation where they are having their towers taken and sieged up by a superior in numbers force. This zerg will leave about 3-4 people sitting there on ACs and have trebs and ballistas already built covering vulnerable spots.

You can’t meteor the ACS as they’re firing on you before you get close enough to cast and 2 super ACs will shred a few marauder eles before they get the cast off. If for some reason you get far enough along on the assault (baring in mind there no more than 15 of you) that the ACs are down the enemy zerg of 50 is on its way to rebuild lost siege and wipe you, my favourite being the wanderers druid that will try to laugh on the corpse of everyone the zerg trains over.

Fay.2357:

Levetty.1279:

Of course to make up for this you are surrounded throughout by Mesmers with godlike powers while your doing the equivalent of poking the enemies with a stick.

Yeah! Where’s my city-wide cannon-destroying feedback bubble?!

Or my mind stab that produces another mind stab on 5 enemies?

What about my auto invuln and portal when I die?

How about unlimited range portal?

LS3 makes mesmers look like god’s compared to everyone including player mesmers, it’s rediculous.

Also thanks Ori, haven’t read any patch notes since release of the LS so didn’t realise it had been so swiftly nerfed.

2 things to consider before trying to figure out who Lazarus really is.

1. It seems doubtful ANet would intentionally put a story step you cannot avoid to do a double bluff of making you doubt it’s Lazarus then reveal it really is him. I say this as most beings in Tyria won’t trust Lazarus at all anyway so it accomplishes very little having a false accusation going on as many have already outright said they don’t trust him to his face.

2. Whatever it is most certainly absorbed a bloodstone and all its magic. That is no small feat and certainly not something a mere mortal would be able to do, let alone someone like Caudicus. Yes Xera had a lot of bloodstone shards and it made her very strong but we are talking about a full on bloodstone that was created to store a races magic that had countless lives and souls fed to it also.

Whatever Lazarus is was very powerful to begin with and I think there’s big clues in the story. Caudicus called him a false god, Canach describes him as deceptive, tactical and powerful and the player questions who would want all the power from a bloodstone and an army to unquestionably follow.

My bet is on it being a god, we don’t know which but signs point to possibly Balthazar but there’s no reason yet to think the human god’s are back. Doubt it would be a Norn Spirit and Charr have no god’s, neither do Sylvari. I guess it could be Abaddon….again or possibly Dhuum.

Either way we are progressing nicely to the expansion that is on its way, I’d expect maybe another couple of living story episodes before a big reveal of the next XPac and they will be interesting.

Lauri.1342:

I have been roaming with my mesmer at kodasch side.
I don´t go EB, but on other maps theres enough fights to have . Nowadays you shouldn´t roam with a class which can´t run a way when situation as gone bad.

Seriously you should try other maps. You can have more fun there.

Yes this, go to the other maps and be ganked 2-5v1 instead at duel spots.

Lauri your incredibly naive if you think the other maps are any better, I haven’t seen a Kodash solo except the few running to a tag and if you attack them they stop and let you kill them as they can’t be bothered fighting when they’d rather respawn faster.

I’ve fought that mesmer and I’m linked or maybe even from your server, he’s not amazing but he at least knows how to play. The unfortunate reality is you’re pointing at him and everything else as being wrong instead of being able to admit your own faults and trying to improve.

If you were all losing to him 5v1 I’m afraid it’s the 5 people that are to blame not him.

To be fair, the problem comes with X legend titles on earlier seasons meaning very little except you grind out a load of games or played on a premade team. Unless you didn’t take part of were very below average you could be “legendary” in 1-4.

I agree the Legend part should be changed so it’s easier to distinguish from positions and previous seasons.

Crinn.7864:

Ithilwen.1529:

That’s more-or-less the point I was trying to make. I’m calling it a “terrain nerf” to Mesmer and Thief.

Given that Mesmer and thieves had a absurd advantage on old Kyhlo, I’d say the change was justified.

Any class with a teleport had an advantage if they took it, this extends mainly to the 2 classes mentioned as they always take it but DH, Rev, Ele and even necro also could utilise teleports nicely on Khylo.

Realistically only warrior, engy and ranger “suffered” in Khylo which would maybe justify the easier ways up to mid.

However why did they remove the sides of the clocktower then? I guess someone at ANet thinks it’s a good idea to be able to park a ranger there and it effectively can pew pew people fighting at the sides almost.

Rudedawg.1876:

apharma.3741:

OP will you be running with a zerg, small group organised, unorganised small groups, solo roaming or seige hugging and flipping camps?

Or all of them?

The answers you get will depend on what you are doing and the environment you will be playing in. If you want an engaging dynamic class then I wouldn’t pick warrior as it’s very passive, not to say there isn’t a clear difference between a good and bad one just they do well against other classes regardless.

Revenant is very weak to condition damage and we are in a condi meta where they are strong especially in roaming so you will get your backside handed to you. A good rev can play around this and get a win but it’s a hard fight. It is a great power spiker and has great cleave though.

If you want something that has risk vs reward while being engaging play a zerk/zealots druid, power mesmer, non DP thief, core any class or power revenant. If you want an easy build you can do whatever with and be effective no matter where to berserker warrior and just switch headbutt to battlestandard if needed in zerg fights.

Thanks everyone for their well thought out responses.

I think I will pretty well be running with a zerg solo because quite honestly I don’t have the time to play more than an hour or two; two or three times per week.

Druid – isn’t that more of a support class that heals?

It’s an excellent roamer but when I wrote the response I had no idea what you were wanting to do. As someone said, run warrior, it’ll give you lots of options for roaming but also running in a zerg with plenty of stability, damage mitigation and durability.

Check meta battle for a starter build for it.

Supreme.3164:

Do you really think that mesmer is not one of those things that need a major nerf? The stupid block uptime it’s an example of not looking at the consequence of a design decision

Mesmer has (if traiting illusionary celerity) a 3s block on a 27s cool down, that is the highest cool down block in the entire gate when traited to reduce its cool down with 1 trait. The only things that reduce it further are persistence of memory and alacrity.

Alacrity at 50% uptime will only give 3s off the cool down now and they need to shatter to get that which leads to.

Persistence of memory will take off up to 4s off the cool down however dodging at the end of the block prevents the phantasm spawning. This deprives the mesmer of 2s of cool down reduction as well as at least 3s of alacrity assuming ofc chronophantasma.

That is without mentioning that the shield has some of the highest amount of counterplay there is in the game. If you don’t hit the first block they got 1.5s of block and a 24s cool down with no resource if you dodged the avenger spawn.

Sorry but there’s a lot more broken issues with the game and less counterplay on just about every single other class than mesmer right now especially other class blocks where only using an unblockable attack or wait is your options.

Edit: To not make this topic about just mesmers, the way I interpret the OP is that the changes to Khylo encourage more pew pewing and provide less kiting spots to all classes where you can escape ranged damage from the node.

First time I did it on ele, got a jade bow spawn I didn’t see which wiped me due to death penalty a few times but second time I did the fight no jade bow spawned and the fight was very easy to deal with.

I guess it will take longer on mesmer but I don’t see any mechanics that specifically punish the mesmer except adds but even they are fairly weak.

Personally I’d have preferred they made khylo clocktower default destroyed walls at the start of the match, kept the side walls as they’re great for LoS. The change to the “jumping puzzle” to get up is nice for beginners and I don’t have any preference of it.

The clock tower used to look nice and professionally designed, now it looks like something put together with the timesplitters 3 map maker. Please rethink the design of this area, if camera was a problem you could have left it as walls destroyed all the time and it fits thematically.

Supreme.3164:

The mentality of players has changed since the beginning,..and for the worst I’d say.

Nobody but the most tough guy will fight 1m away from keeps or towers, even worst they will try their best to outnumber you. be it using guards or other players.

Everybody try to play to safe, take no risk, always move in group, never fight when outnumbered.

People would rather cap an empty tower…than enjoy a challenging fight…

It’s truly disgusting behaviour and Anet can’t do anything about it I’m afraid

Let me not even start on the roaming scene….nothing but condi bunkers so much that even thieves are now rare

I have no suggestions..just I feel very sorry for those who still look for a challenge, a honest fight, the times of heroic fights , those times where you used to spend hours in WvW having fun…those times are gone and are not coming back.

While I agree with the lack of genitalia displayed (or not displayed as it’s a 13 game) by people in WvW Arena Net does shoulder some of the blame as well for the horrific balancing of classes at the moment.

All I see roaming not near towers are berserkers, DH, thieves, condi mesmers, stealth camping power mesmers, stealth spam stupidly tanky druids and that’s about it in specifically that order and specifically those meta builds. You won’t find much else roaming and the number of DH, berserkers and thieves I see is double that of the other classes mentioned.

This game has become very low risk high reward on a lot of classes, I could play a super tanky condi chrono and win more fights but I choose to run a zerk power shatter with low stealth. The amount of classes that counter me is at an all time high to the point where I am not bothering to fight much anymore and thus play WvW less and less. The counters existed before but the disparity wasn’t so glaring after IP became baseline.

OP will you be running with a zerg, small group organised, unorganised small groups, solo roaming or seige hugging and flipping camps?

Or all of them?

The answers you get will depend on what you are doing and the environment you will be playing in. If you want an engaging dynamic class then I wouldn’t pick warrior as it’s very passive, not to say there isn’t a clear difference between a good and bad one just they do well against other classes regardless.

Revenant is very weak to condition damage and we are in a condi meta where they are strong especially in roaming so you will get your backside handed to you. A good rev can play around this and get a win but it’s a hard fight. It is a great power spiker and has great cleave though.

If you want something that has risk vs reward while being engaging play a zerk/zealots druid, power mesmer, non DP thief, core any class or power revenant. If you want an easy build you can do whatever with and be effective no matter where to berserker warrior and just switch headbutt to battlestandard if needed in zerg fights.

stress level zero.4907:

Spoichiche.1290:

You can see both of them in a nice format here :
https://gw2armory.com/leaderboards/pvp/na

However, this leaderboard doesn’t show the number of wins/losses. Only the account name and their skill rating.

Hey! Developer of gw2armory here. Is wins/losses something that you guys would like to see on the ladder?

:)

Yes please as it shows quiet a lot about the accounts and how they got there, for example #1 on NA has played a total of 41 games and clearly sniped Nos for that spot while #1-5 on EU have all had a ton of matches to their names showing they consistently played to earn their place.

NaXorb, just how do you intend people to hit a thief when they go to a node to try and decap but nothing happens? By this point the thief is in stealth so you have no idea where they are until a small red ring appears somewhere.

Additionally arcane thievery needs a target in order for it to hit, no target and it’s used but does nothing, way to show us all how little you know about the game. Please accept that this is not a good idea for the reasons outlined by the many posters here.

JTGuevara.9018:

Shaogin.2679:

So funny, he talks about how he doesn’t want people to use his words in this video to bash anet and they are leaving because they can no longer compete as a team. Then here we have a whole thread of people using this video to bash the game and talking about how he was only interested in money. Lol, too funny.

Couldn’t compete? Ha! BS. Then they should’ve left at the START of the season where it was known that 5v5 wasn’t going to be in.

No no no. They left because the e-sport money dried up, pure and simple.

Lol, if 2 pro league players as a duo pretty much dominate a match as it is now just how do you think a full 5 man of DNL will do? They will roflstomp the other team 500-50 unless they come up against another ESL team which lets be honest there’s only really a small number at the top even capable of giving a good match atm.

They are also trying to make a living off esports, we all know is this but you can’t pay bills if there’s no money coming in and we don’t know when the next tournament is.

Anyway I wish the best for them as they go to SMITE and hopefully they won’t be gone forever.

Obligatory “can I has your stuff pls?”

Trigr.6481:

Not surprised in the slightest. It is quite funny when he claims he cared about the game before he started winning money in tournaments, then when the tournament money goes dry because there aren’t any being started he immediately leaves. Imagine that.

Yeah, how dare he try to make a living off of esports and then abandon a taken when that’s no longer possible.

I mean I just keep working for a company going under without pay, money is for chumps, paying bills and life can wait when you’re the best in GW2!

If GW2 wants to be esports it needs to funnel money into it and keep up tournaments, if not then they should come out and say they aren’t going in that direction anymore. At the moment people wanted to make a living off the esports of GW2 and it was possible with the Pro League for the top teams but not if they don’t keep doing pro league and 6 months no pay is a long time.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

You didn’t say, tempest outheals druid, true, but Fay did. And tempest only outcleanses druid when it runs a subpar build, with significantly less healing than druid, and we assume, 2/3 of druids cleanses do nothing.
And tempest does not provide more or stronger aoe regen than druid. A single! tick from healing spring provides more regen than an aura. 2 seconds inside HS can already provide near perma regen – for more than just 5 players. And if we still assume, HS is useless, we can just take traited shouts instead – each providing more than 2x as much regen as an aura. And the regen can tick for 450+/s (Pretty funny that you think, 300/s is worth mentioning. Yes i know, more than 300/s is possible on tempest too. Druid got better/more access to outgoing healing modifier, so there will remain a small advantage).
I don’t really understand this discussion. There are obviously enough reasons to take tempest over druid, so why do you want to find even more?

I’m not, just explaining why druid is inferior as a pick than ele which is what the entire discussion was about was it not?

It’s you that’s trying to convince everyone druid is a great pick over ele which it isn’t at least that’s what most of your posts infer.

Balance patches every month with stream.

Changes are limited to one change per skill per patch and no change more than 20%. An example of this would be if you reduced the damage on symbols you couldn’t change any more skills or traits affecting symbols.

I know, some things need lots of changes to be brought up or down but the heavy handed nerfs and buffs over the years have been horrible and resulted in more underused skills than useful skills.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I’m from EU and i see those stationary fights quite often. You can also watch pretty much any random GvG video on youtube to see those.

So you think, tempests wh5 (the only waterfield a d/w tempest provides) + blasts is better than druids RT? Lets see:

Water Globe provides 1 waterfield on 28 (35s cd) that heals for less than 4k (@~1400 hp) and which they can selfblast up to 3x (45s cd on aftershock!) for additional ~5k healing, if the field doesn’t travel straight into the enemy bomb or somewhere else where they don’t want to move. But let’s be generous and say, it provides ~ 10k*5 mobile aoe healing every 30s (=20k*5 per minute).
Druid can use Rejuvenating Tides 2x every 20-30s (lets say every 20s because we are generous again), for about 16k*5 healing without any blasts. That’s 48k*5 mobile healing per minute with only 1 skill and more than twice as much as tempest with wh5 + blasts.
You can’t tell me, WH 5 is better than RT or even one of druids other water fields.

I also don’t get, why staff tempest’s water fields are better than the druid’s. Ele has 1x 2s duration on 16s cd, 1x 6s duration on 36 cd. Druid has 1x 10s duration on 24s cd, 1x 5s duration on 20/25s cd (can be quickdraw’ed for 8s cd! if neccessary) and a mobile one with 8s cd (requires CA, so 2x every ~20-30s). With the right rotation, druid can keep up a water field permanently. Druid can also provide aoe vigor (~16s every 20s till pets die -but bears can actually survive for quite a while).

Tempest can maybe (too lazy to do the math) outcleanse druid, if it gives up aurashare and durability rune (which means less aoe auras, healing, protection, regen and vigor) and they obviously got the benefits from aoe auras and bigger radius on some heals, but it won’t outheal druid. With or without aurashare.

Let’s see, at what point did I say it outheals druid?

Read a bit and you will see I say that it outcleanses druid while putting out similar healing. This is my favourite part where I quote myself:

apharma.3741:

I’m not saying that druid is rubbish, I’m saying that tempest is better as it can put out similar healing while also putting out more cleansing.

I know full well a druid can outheal tempests, I also know that their cleanses aren’t great and even a trooper rune ele will usually outcleanse a druid. Ele also gives high amounts of protection, regen and vigor it’s worth mentioning the regen ticks for nearly 300hp/s and then you have soothing mists on top that bumps it up to 400.

Once again you keep bringing up pets and those static water fields from healing spring for regen, vigor etc. The fights are not static that I see unless you count a bunch of Germans sitting in a tower building seige all day.

@Pyro thanks for confirming NA is also mobile fights, I guess the meta is similar access the board.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I’m well aware of the boon spam meta that is dominating zerg play (i don’t know, how meta builds exactly look like, but i got a roughly knowledge about what is used). And those boons allow a lot of facetanking and favour stacking more than ever. There is usually very little movement in zerg/guild fights (less in GvG, more in Pug zergs). I don’t have to take part in those to see people just clump together till something eventually dies.

Healing spring is very very strong in such scenarios. And why is it even an argument that druid can can’t selfblast Rejuvenating Tides – which is even without blasting the strongest mobile aoe healing skill in the game – when d/f tempest provides zero water fields?
As for boons – druid can provide all that tempest can provide, with the exception from protection (theoretically druid could bring blue moa or stone spirit, but both doesn’t work that well so i don’t count them). But for perma prot everybody (including druid, who doesn’t lose the majority of cleanses when doing so) can just run with durability rune, which is actually meta for pretty much everything.

Except you ignore how most tempests run dagger and warhorn not focus which means not only do they have a travelling water Field but can also blast it with dagger 3 while letting others blast and can blast again with aftershock and sand squall. You also are ignoring how I say that the meta we are in relies on staying moving, staying still leaves you open to AoE boon removal from null field and well of corruption so they stay moving. Healing spring doesn’t work for that.

Please also stop bring up pets for using skills or giving boons, you know as well as anyone that they will be dead most of a fight. The stone spirit is especially silly to bring up.

I’m not saying that druid is rubbish, I’m saying that tempest is better as it can put out similar healing while also putting out more cleansing.

Guessing you’re NA if you’re seeing fairly stationary fights because I haven’t seen fights in EU stay in 600 range of the same place for a very long time.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

@apharma
I might be wrong, because i’m usually not a zerg/GvG player, but from what i can see in WvW, warhorn and 5 shouts is not meta, because it will leave the ele way to vulnerable to focus/spike dmg (An issue that applies to druid to some extent). They usually run focus offhand and lightning flash, sometimes even armor of earth. For cleansing water you also have to give up powerful auras, and aurashare is imo the biggest advantage tempest has over druid.
Druids can bring healing spring, which doesn’t only cleanse conditions, but is overall a very strong (the best?) water field. They can easily selfblast it multiple times (d/f tempest has no water field, d/w only 1). Add Glyph of Alignment, Glyph of Equality and/or brownbear, soft cc remove with Vine Surge and you don’t have to rely on the delayed (but still potentially strong) cleanse from Seed of Life. Shouts with soldier rune would be an option too for druid (though not optimal imo).

I’m not saying, druid is better than tempest, but after messing arround a bit with support druid in pug zergs, i think, it is not as bad as many people claim. AOE stunbreaks, cleanses, blinds, projectile destruction, regen, fury, vigor, swiftness, stealth, superspeed, spotter, strong rezzing and of course tons of healing shouldn’t be underrated. It basically just lacks on demand stability/invuln and maybe a bigger radius on some skills.

It’s very clear you’re not a zerg player because you don’t realise the meta we are in. A group running high boon uptime can get very high uptime of resistance and stability while having permanent protection, swiftness, 25 might, fury, quickness (or close to 100%) and regen.

What this amounts to is a very mobile wrecking ball that cannot be stopped easily (indeed that is their weakness, getting stopped in boon removal AoE) as conditions don’t stick, CC does nothing and with the amount of damage reduction they take next to no damage. The guards also run minstrels last I heard with mercy runes for quick rez to minimise their only weakness. This is why everything you suggested for druid isn’t great, a lot of it is stationary and this meta is all about moving. In this regard healing spring is useless and you’re better with rejuvenating tides which is why I say it’s harder to self blast.

As for the ele, it depends what the group wants, aura share is incredibly strong sustain but lacks cleanses and is better on D/F. Some however do run full shouts and rely on guards for the stab to prevent being locked down and have stone heart for being focused. You ever tried killing an ele that only takes 54% of the damage you do after toughness calculations that cannot be crit? It’s requires focused boon removal and focused spike and even then chances are they won’t die. Ele is a healing and cleansing beast if other classes give it stab, a role it excels at more than any other ATM.

I wouldn’t agree with your views on warrior, it is just as silly as DH. The thing I dislike about current DH is how quick the spear is, make it 1/2s cast and increase the cool down to 30s but reduce the cool down on hunters verdict (the pull) to match.

Trap heal makes fighting it as mesmer a pita but that’s a class specific issue.

Vicariuz.1605:

heres a great example, i just went against a double top 25 duo, when i am t3 gold. WHAT THE kitten? then 2 games later, THEY GET PUT ON THE SAME TEAM AGAIN, u can check my match history and lycarous stream.

I have the key to this frustrating lock of yours.

I’ve found the light to illuminate your dark days.

The mystery of what’s causing all your frustrations is about to be revealed.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Well, i don’t know, how meta zerg tempest exactly looks like, but does it even have that much cleanses? I guess it runs aurashare, so no cleansing water. It has water overload and eventually shouts (with soldier rune), what more?
Druid can bring a bunch of cleanses too.

5 shouts with trooper runes and each aura gives regen so that’s usually 3 shouts that cleanse 2. They run warhorn so that gives more regen on water 4, overload water gives regen which is another cleanse and all this is AoE which means allies just have to be near the tempest.

Druid on the other hand the cleanses come from the seeds which have a delay so must be put ahead of where they are needed. The exception being glyph of alignment which will cleanse 2 conditions but isn’t superior to an eles skills tbh. A druid has the better directed heals but ele does the healing and cleansing much better and brings a water field they can self blast quite easily a few times, it’s much harder for the druid to self blast anything but sublime conversion.

Lol, yeah you’re totally outhealing the ele but are you outhealing and outcleansing them? Nope not even close, that’s why they prefer ele.

It’s more that while an engy can bring a decent amount of cleanse it’s not near the support of the other classes, you have tossed elixirs, elixir gun and healing turret if you bring that, though that means no team protection. A guard will bring all that and might without the weird travel times.

Warrior is great because it can have insane regen, insane damage, cleave all while being largely invulnerability to damage for periods of time, most other classes cannot do that, same with DH F3 as it blocks loads of attacks allowing them to mitigate a lot more damage but war is better.

Necro is the only classes with corrupts and is mandatory to kill anyone in the boonshare meta. Mesmer can remove boons but a necro is a lot better and with them being condi they get damage doing it.

My mesmer has 2 stunbreaks on low cool down, one of which is a teleport, a block, invuln and an evade for 2s, I don’t need the support from the heavies, I find someone out of place and down them.

My engy has lots of stab and protection with easy might generation, why do I need people to support me? I do more damage than those minstrel guards and rez faster while having projectile destruction and lots of self cleanses. I don’t need them, they don’t need me, I’m fine with that and that is some of these classes strengths ATM, that they are so self sufficient.

Easiest way is to tag up, claim to be doing a hero point tour and get everyone else to do it all for you while you just tag the champ.

Just use anything you want, you won’t be making much of a difference and it’ll save you a lot of frustration doing it all solo.

I miss D2 so much fun.

I personally think they should replace Carrion Devourer with frostbite + frostbite’s AI, only way to stop this overpowered nonsense getting out of control.

Dawdler.8521:

Offair.2563:

Ychiju.7960:

Ciriaco.9863:

Hey dummy, try going out another exit from spawn? Durrrrrrrrrrrrr

If this is a non-issue, then why do people do spawn-camping? Try to figure out what their incentive is and you’ll find your argument flawed (hint: it’s not about not letting the enemy out).

Why they spawncamp? Easy answer, other side keeps feeding them bags, thats why.

Exactly.

Only idiots get spawncamped. Across entire WvW an enemy server would need like 800+ people to blockade every spawn. Thats dedication (its also literally impossible). Oh boho so you are being spawncamped on EB? I am 100% certain that your DBL spawn is completely empty. I am also 90% certain that at least one of the side exits on EB are wide open. Maybe OP can answer that. Did your server have another 60-80 man at the spawn not currently visible on the minimap?

You would only need 800 people of those people were practically brain dead, though that probably fits the profile of the servers involved.

You can build 5 super ACs and some shield generator, only need 10 per exit to present a hazard for people trying to get out. Just remember a server with a zerg doesn’t get spawn camped usually as they can call them in to necro rush if needed. Spawn camping happens when you’re usually massively outnumbered.