Guild Wars 2

godz raiden.2631:

bhagwad.4281:

godz raiden.2631:

bhagwad.4281:

There you go. My point is that other professions don’t have to take risks to use their class mechanic. Mesmers almost always have to take a risk to do so.

Shattering can have benefits. However, it always has a downside. That doesn’t suit my playstyle. I don’t like risks.

Wait, you just basically said that the mechanics of mesmer don’t fit your playstyle, but other professions’ mechanics do. Then why are you playing mesmer? I suppose you’ll argue that you like the mesmer more than other classes for other reasons other than class mechanics and playstyle, from a PvP/competitive stand point that argument doesn’t really hold water.

If the way mesmer works doesn’t suit you, then play a different class that has a play style that you appreciate more. That’s just logical to me, but I can understand your desire to make your playstyle work on mesmer to a degree.

I said the mechanic of shatter doesn’t fit my playstyle. The mesmer class itself works very well for me thank you very much. Shatter is only one of a mesmer’s class mechanics. I choose not to use it.

To me your playstyle seems to be summoning AI and letting it do the work for you. That’s just my opinion, but if you enjoy summoning things and letting them chip away at your opponent, then there are other classes that have similar play styles (although they probably aren’t that great). Heck, you could play guardian and use summoned weapons, or play turret engineer, or minion-mancer.

I’ve been playing mesmer since the GW2 beta. I like how it works, and I’m good at it. I just want Anet to stop tweaking the game to push me towards shatter.

godz raiden.2631:

bhagwad.4281:

There you go. Steal adds to your damage. Missing steal does not reduce your damage does it? Hence missing steal does not leave you in a worse position than you were before.

In economic terms, there is no opportunity cost to you using steal.

And as my original post states, my primary frustration is with Anet when they make statements like “Mesmers should use their shatter skills more”. I say nonsense, and my post is an explanation as to why.

Missing steal absolutely reduces damage, are you completely unaware of the traits that benefit steal? A lot of them contribute to damage. I’ll give you the traits that enhance, and most thieves take a fair few of them depending on their weapon set and whether they run a condi or power build.

Serpent’s Touch – Stealing inflicts poison.
Mug – Deal damage and gain life when stealing (cannot critically hit).
Improvisation – Use stolen items twice, and one random skill category is immediately recharged when you steal (by the way, this does not always benefit thieves, as it can rest a category of which you have no skills equipped).
Hidden Thief – Stealing grants you stealth.
Kleptomaniac- Stealing give you initiative.
Thrill of the Crime – You and nearby allies gain fury, might, and swiftness for 10 seconds when you steal.
Bountiful Theft – Stealing gives you and nearby allies vigor and you rip 2 boons from your target and grant them to nearby allies.
Sleight of Hand – Stealing dazes the target and reduces recharge of steal.
Bewildering Ambush – Stealing applies confusion.

So many of those traits, in many builds, are vital in increasing your damage as a thief. If you need me to go into detail on each one as to why those increase damage, or why missing steal and not gaining their benefits hurts your damage, then you’re just being willfully ignorant.

Just as it would be stupid for you throw a phantasm or mind wrack on a target who is block, it’s just as equally silly for a thief to steal to that same target. There is risk vs reward in using steal, and using every time it’s off cooldown will not win a thief a fight, in fact, it is more likely that the thief will lose that fight.

Oh god, please understand what I’m trying to say. Steal increases your damage. If you could do 10 damage before, stealing allows you to do 50 damage.

Missing steal, does not reduce your damage to 5 or 2. Hence, there is no opportunity cost to using steal.

When you say steal has risk, you are saying “Missing steal will put me in a worse position than I currently am”.

Do thieves have a mechanic that says “Missing steal inflicts 20 seconds of weakness”? Is there a rule that says “Missing steal damages you by 5k”? Do you lose power or condition damage when you use steal?

No? Then steal has no risk.

In fact even if you miss, you get boons on steal. I think you need to understand what I’m trying to say before getting all defensive.

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

Life force and adrenaline?

And those are “free” additional class mechanics belonging to necros and warriors. A necro only benefits from using DS. A warrior only benefits from using adrenaline skills.

After DS and Adrenaline skills, the necro and warrior are no worse off than they were before using those skills.

The mesmer on the other hand is worse off for using their shatters. Because their phantasms and clones are gone.

Your point might have merit if clones and phantasms were also linked to the F1-F5 skills. But since they are caused by normal weapon and utility skills, the class mechanic for mesmers leaves us in a worse position than we were before.

A necro with no DS is absolutely in a worse spot than a necro with DS. A warrior with no adrenaline has to build it back up before he can burst again. Their mechanics have a cost and they have to recharge.

The exact same is true of mesmers. The problem is that you seem to think shatters have no benefit for their cost. In fact, shatters allow mesmers to burst, control a fight, and survive damage spikes.

You don’t understand. As a mesmer playing for 3 years, I ignore my F1-F5 skills entirely (except for stomping). That is because pressing one of those buttons is a risk.

Where is the risk of a necro going into DS?

Come on…this can’t be that hard to understand.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a risk. I said you’re incorrect to assume shattering always leaves the Mesmer in a worse position.

There you go. My point is that other professions don’t have to take risks to use their class mechanic. Mesmers almost always have to take a risk to do so.

Shattering can have benefits. However, it always has a downside. That doesn’t suit my playstyle. I don’t like risks.

And to close the loop on this increasingly circular argument, not having a risk involve does not make it “free”.

It pretty much does. If an ability has 0 risk and no penalty for using it, that’s pretty much the definition of free. When you can get something for nothing, that is exactly what “free” means.

Mind you, I’m very happy not shattering. I do not grudge other professions in the least. If I am angry, I am angry with Anet for trying to force Mesmers into shattering. I am perfectly happy without shattering and have been so for 3+ years.

Just going to quote this because it does more damage to your argument than I ever could.

w.e. Peace.

godz raiden.2631:

bhagwad.4281:

There you go. My point is that other professions don’t have to take risks to use their class mechanic. Mesmers almost always have to take a risk to do so.

Shattering can have benefits. However, it always has a downside. That doesn’t suit my playstyle. I don’t like risks.

Wait, you just basically said that the mechanics of mesmer don’t fit your playstyle, but other professions’ mechanics do. Then why are you playing mesmer? I suppose you’ll argue that you like the mesmer more than other classes for other reasons other than class mechanics and playstyle, from a PvP/competitive stand point that argument doesn’t really hold water.

If the way mesmer works doesn’t suit you, then play a different class that has a play style that you appreciate more. That’s just logical to me, but I can understand your desire to make your playstyle work on mesmer to a degree.

I said the mechanic of shatter doesn’t fit my playstyle. The mesmer class itself works very well for me thank you very much. Shatter is only one of a mesmer’s class mechanics. I choose not to use it.

godz raiden.2631:

bhagwad.4281:

When the warrior misses an adrenaline skill, they are no worse off than before they used it! Same with steal. If steal misses, the thief is in no worse position than before they used steal.

Mesmers on the other hand are in a worse position because their phantasms and clones are gone. Why is this so difficult to understand.

Ummmmmm what? As a thief player I can assure you that if my steal misses or is blocked I am definitely worse off than I was before using it. Steal, in a lot of thief builds, adds a lot to our damage and utility and gives us an item that can give us the edge in the fight.

You are coming across as extremely biased in your view now if you truly believe that other classes who fail to connect their class mechanics are somehow not punished for that.

Honestly, if you can’t see how a warrior who didn’t land his 10k eviscerate and now has to rebuild his adrenaline is in a worse spot than before he missed his burst, then I don’t know how anybody can get through to you. That’s one of the simplest examples available, and you’re rejecting it just because you don’t want shatters to use your phantasms for some reason. Guess what, warrior burst skills come off cool down eventually, and so do your phantasms. Part of developing play skill is using when to use your weapon skills, class mechanic skills, and utilities. If you have a different playstyle that does not require shatters, that’s fine. Then simply don’t use them until you have to. If you don’t rely on them for burst, then don’t click mind wrack. If you don’t care about condition damage, then don’t use cry of frustration. At least diversion and distortion will still have value to you.

There you go. Steal adds to your damage. Missing steal does not reduce your damage does it? Hence missing steal does not leave you in a worse position than you were before.

In economic terms, there is no opportunity cost to you using steal.

And as my original post states, my primary frustration is with Anet when they make statements like “Mesmers should use their shatter skills more”. I say nonsense, and my post is an explanation as to why.

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

Life force and adrenaline?

And those are “free” additional class mechanics belonging to necros and warriors. A necro only benefits from using DS. A warrior only benefits from using adrenaline skills.

After DS and Adrenaline skills, the necro and warrior are no worse off than they were before using those skills.

The mesmer on the other hand is worse off for using their shatters. Because their phantasms and clones are gone.

Your point might have merit if clones and phantasms were also linked to the F1-F5 skills. But since they are caused by normal weapon and utility skills, the class mechanic for mesmers leaves us in a worse position than we were before.

A necro with no DS is absolutely in a worse spot than a necro with DS. A warrior with no adrenaline has to build it back up before he can burst again. Their mechanics have a cost and they have to recharge.

The exact same is true of mesmers. The problem is that you seem to think shatters have no benefit for their cost. In fact, shatters allow mesmers to burst, control a fight, and survive damage spikes.

You don’t understand. As a mesmer playing for 3 years, I ignore my F1-F5 skills entirely (except for stomping). That is because pressing one of those buttons is a risk.

Where is the risk of a necro going into DS?

Come on…this can’t be that hard to understand.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a risk. I said you’re incorrect to assume shattering always leaves the Mesmer in a worse position.

There you go. My point is that other professions don’t have to take risks to use their class mechanic. Mesmers almost always have to take a risk to do so.

Shattering can have benefits. However, it always has a downside. That doesn’t suit my playstyle. I don’t like risks.

And to close the loop on this increasingly circular argument, not having a risk involve does not make it “free”.

It pretty much does. If an ability has 0 risk and no penalty for using it, that’s pretty much the definition of free. When you can get something for nothing, that is exactly what “free” means.

Mind you, I’m very happy not shattering. I do not grudge other professions in the least. If I am angry, I am angry with Anet for trying to force Mesmers into shattering. I am perfectly happy without shattering and have been so for 3+ years.

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

Life force and adrenaline?

And those are “free” additional class mechanics belonging to necros and warriors. A necro only benefits from using DS. A warrior only benefits from using adrenaline skills.

After DS and Adrenaline skills, the necro and warrior are no worse off than they were before using those skills.

The mesmer on the other hand is worse off for using their shatters. Because their phantasms and clones are gone.

Your point might have merit if clones and phantasms were also linked to the F1-F5 skills. But since they are caused by normal weapon and utility skills, the class mechanic for mesmers leaves us in a worse position than we were before.

A necro with no DS is absolutely in a worse spot than a necro with DS. A warrior with no adrenaline has to build it back up before he can burst again. Their mechanics have a cost and they have to recharge.

The exact same is true of mesmers. The problem is that you seem to think shatters have no benefit for their cost. In fact, shatters allow mesmers to burst, control a fight, and survive damage spikes.

You don’t understand. As a mesmer playing for 3 years, I ignore my F1-F5 skills entirely (except for stomping). That is because pressing one of those buttons is a risk.

Where is the risk of a necro going into DS?

Come on…this can’t be that hard to understand.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a risk. I said you’re incorrect to assume shattering always leaves the Mesmer in a worse position.

There you go. My point is that other professions don’t have to take risks to use their class mechanic. Mesmers almost always have to take a risk to do so.

Shattering can have benefits. However, it always has a downside. That doesn’t suit my playstyle. I don’t like risks.

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

Life force and adrenaline?

And those are “free” additional class mechanics belonging to necros and warriors. A necro only benefits from using DS. A warrior only benefits from using adrenaline skills.

After DS and Adrenaline skills, the necro and warrior are no worse off than they were before using those skills.

The mesmer on the other hand is worse off for using their shatters. Because their phantasms and clones are gone.

Your point might have merit if clones and phantasms were also linked to the F1-F5 skills. But since they are caused by normal weapon and utility skills, the class mechanic for mesmers leaves us in a worse position than we were before.

A necro with no DS is absolutely in a worse spot than a necro with DS. A warrior with no adrenaline has to build it back up before he can burst again. Their mechanics have a cost and they have to recharge.

The exact same is true of mesmers. The problem is that you seem to think shatters have no benefit for their cost. In fact, shatters allow mesmers to burst, control a fight, and survive damage spikes.

You don’t understand. As a mesmer playing for 3 years, I ignore my F1-F5 skills entirely (except for stomping). That is because pressing one of those buttons is a risk.

Where is the risk of a necro going into DS?

Come on…this can’t be that hard to understand.

godz raiden.2631:

bhagwad.4281:

And those are “free” additional class mechanics belonging to necros and warriors. A necro only benefits from using DS. A warrior only benefits from using adrenaline skills.

After DS and Adrenaline skills, the necro and warrior are no worse off than they were before using those skills.

The mesmer on the other hand is worse off for using their shatters. Because their phantasms and clones are gone.

Your point might have merit if clones and phantasms were also linked to the F1-F5 skills. But since they are caused by normal weapon and utility skills, the class mechanic for mesmers leaves us in a worse position than we were before.

What about when a warrior misses with his burst skill and his entire adrenaline bar is reset and he gains none of the advantage of having used his adrenaline? Is that not comparable to you losing your phantasm(s) when you use your shatter skill? After all, the warrior did invest weapon skill cooldowns on generating the adrenaline, much as you wasted weapon skill cooldowns generating the clones and phantasms to gain the ability to use shatter skills.

I’m sorry, it just seems like you’re trying to make other classes look significantly stronger than mesmers or something to me, as though other classes have some sort of ridiculously unfair advantage.

In your original post you even mention thief steal being “free,” yet steal is able to be evaded and blocked, negating the benefit of using it.

It seems to me like you don’t completely understand how or when to use your shatter skills, and that is the heart of your issue with them, rather than that they’re leaving you vulnerable. The point is to use your shatters on an enemy when they’re vulnerable, not whenever you please (this is how all class mechanics work to varying degrees by the way).

When the warrior misses an adrenaline skill, they are no worse off than before they used it! Same with steal. If steal misses, the thief is in no worse position than before they used steal.

Mesmers on the other hand are in a worse position because their phantasms and clones are gone. Why is this so difficult to understand.

Dastion.3106:

This is why many Mesmer builds use a Deceptive Evasion and Decoy. You blow your illusions for an immediate effect. It might be damage (Mind Wrack or COF), Control (Diversion) or self preservation (Distortion). These are all very useful effects for the short term.

Then if you’re in danger you just dodge, decoy, or use one of your blocks to get away. This generates more clones.

The thing is, by leaving your illusions up indefinitely you’re actually wasting potential. After the initial burst from them they tend to be easily avoided or dispatched. Once your enemies figure out which clone is actually you they’ve called a target on you and will ignore the others. Shattering then using decoy breaks that targeting.

Mesmers are intended to be a high skill cap profession, that’s why our mechanic has give and take. Though it’s not as specific to us as you think. Necros can burn through their life force for damage or a quick fear, or more recently, summoning downed allies to them. Doing so pure DS on a cool down and uses some of their life force. They risk not being able to shroud for protection when they go low due to either the CD or lack of life force. A necro managing that resource and using it effectively is just as important as a Mesmer getting the most out of his illusions and shatters.

With IP baseline now there is absolutely no reason you shouldn’t be hitting shatter. Being able to Diversion a heal instantly or distortion yourself mid stomp is integral to Mesmer play now.

You can see in my OP that I already use distortion for mid stomp – it was the one risk free shatter mechanic so far.

As for necros and life force…I repeat – the entire life force mechanic is an extra to the Necro’s usual weapon skills. The life force bar, the entire concept of DS only benefits the necro. The necro can choose to use DS and their life fore bar and their DS skills to get a net benefit.

The Mesmer on the other hand has to shoot themselves in the foot to get the benefits of shatter.

denis.9487:

Again why not use them they will die to a strong breeze. With new traits you can actually benefit by shattering. Currently using Dom/duel/inspiration in wvw. When I shatter I heal remove a condition plus share boons with others. With pack runes fury trait in dueling might from burden skill in Dom I have found I share plenty.

I trait my phantasms to be tougher than normal ones. Also, they give me utility like reflect on the warden, plus they attack more often. My duelist usually gets out at least 2 chains before dying.

And honestly, keeping track of the health 3 phantasms in the thick of a fight is a pretty impossible task for me.

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

Life force and adrenaline?

And those are “free” additional class mechanics belonging to necros and warriors. A necro only benefits from using DS. A warrior only benefits from using adrenaline skills.

After DS and Adrenaline skills, the necro and warrior are no worse off than they were before using those skills.

The mesmer on the other hand is worse off for using their shatters. Because their phantasms and clones are gone.

Your point might have merit if clones and phantasms were also linked to the F1-F5 skills. But since they are caused by normal weapon and utility skills, the class mechanic for mesmers leaves us in a worse position than we were before.

Axelwarrior.9084:

You can use shatters without sacrificing phantasms #mindblown

P.S. I don’t see the point of this thread.

Shatters consume phantasms as well.

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

denis.9487:

The analogy of chess is awesome. But taking of pieces can be seen as using a shatter skill. I’m not saying shatter like crazy but why not. When mob is low when you have phantasm recharge up why not shatter they just coming back. It would help to improve your game to shatter strategically.

For PvE, sure that makes sense. For PvP…not so much. A shatter skill uses up all three of your illusions and re summoning them back up to a full 3 count takes time. Time you have to spend defending yourself.

PvE mobs won’t dodge your shatters so it’s a pretty safe bet. Not at all a sure thing in PvP…

Note: This post is for PvP only and meant for Phantasm mesmer builds. Also, this post is not complaining against other classes, but against Anet for trying to force Mesmers to shatter with statements like “Mesmers should shatter more”.

Anet is trying to force more Mesmers to use shatters. They say it is the class mechanic. More important that phantasms, or mantras. Personally, I disagree.

I never liked the shatter mechanic. Even now after 3 years of GW2. I’m going to continue to find ways not to shatter. I don’t like the idea of giving up my phantasms (long term damage) for a dubious short term one.

So I’m tweaking my regular phantasm build, but I stubbornly refuse to shatter. I was good with my previous build, and I will become good with this one too!

I guess my primary problem with shatter skills is that they have a cost associated with them. Other classes get additional abilities for free at no opportunity cost. Necro gets a free life bar and new skills. Thief gets a free steal + extra skills. Guardian gets free passive and free active effects, Warrior burst etc.

But as a mesmer, I always felt that my class mechanic was punishing me for using it. I always feel vulnerable after a shatter. I’ve just given up my damage dealing phantasms, I’ve just given up my clones that hide me. Out of all the classes, only the mesmer has to take a risk while using their “class mechanic”.

Now this is a matter of playstyle, but I don’t like risks. I like to grind down my opponent slowly in a vice grip. For this reason I never go Lord during Foefire when well ahead in points – why take a risk when you can win for sure by just being defensive.

Maybe it’s because of my mentality as a chess player – when you have a material advantage on the board, just go slow, exchange pieces and grind the other guy down. The “risk factor” just doesn’t do it for me.

So as a mesmer, shattering goes completely against my grain. First of all, if the opponent dodges my shatters it’s over. I gave up everything to get nothing. Second, even if it hits I want to make sure he’s dead. Sure, I can just stealth but I dislike PU builds as well because I like to fight on point and I have no intention of just giving the opponent free cap points.

I use shatter only – only – to secure stomps. That is the most risk free shatter skill I know of. The opponent will be dead after the stomp and my illusions will die anyway. So I sacrifice them to end it.

Otherwise, sorry but no. I will continue to pump out phantasms without shattering them and I refuse to waste all of it on a “risk/reward” playstyle. I don’t like risk. I don’t like shatters. And I feel that mesmers got shafted for a class mechanic that forces them into a disadvantage while using it.

Anet said that people weren’t using shatter enough. Did they ever bother to think about why they don’t have that complaint for any other class? The reason is that the “risk/reward” playstyle isn’t for everyone. And it shouldn’t be the case that mesmers have to play the risk/reward game.

In the end no matter what benefits you give to shattering, the fact is that it elicits a cost from us Mesmers. And for that reason alone it is unappealing. And also, we are the only class that needs to make this trade off.

P.S: I have nothing against the risk/reward playstyle in general. Guardians can build thmselves as glass cannons and sacrifice defense for offense for example. But guardians can also choose to play in another way. They are not “locked down” into playing a double edged sword.

I refuse to believe that Mesmers are “inherently” forced into a risk/reward style of gameplay. That should be a choice. Not a mandate.

Posted as a comment in: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Patch-Seems-to-have-Halved-Build-Variety/first#post5214875

I guess my primary problem with shatter skills is that they have a cost associated with them. Other classes get additional abilities for free at no opportunity cost. Necro gets a free life bar and new skills. Thief gets a free steal + extra skills. Guardian gets free passive and free active effects, Warrior burst etc.

But as a mesmer, I always felt that my class mechanic was punishing me for using it. I always feel vulnerable after a shatter. I’ve just given up my damage dealing phantasms, I’ve just given up my clones that hide me. Out of all the classes, only the mesmer has to take a risk while using their “class mechanic”.

Now this is a matter of playstyle, but I don’t like risks. I like to grind down my opponent slowly in a vice grip. For this reason I never go Lord during Foefire when well ahead in points – why take a risk when you can win for sure by just being defensive.

Maybe it’s because of my mentality as a chess player – when you have a material advantage on the board, just go slow, exchange pieces and grind the other guy down. The “risk factor” just doesn’t do it for me.

So as a mesmer, shattering goes completely against my grain. First of all, if the opponent dodges my shatters it’s over. I gave up everything to get nothing. Second, even if it hits I want to make sure he’s dead. Sure, I can just stealth but I dislike PU builds as well because I like to fight on point and I have no intention of just giving the opponent free cap points.

I use shatter only – only – to secure stomps. That is the most risk free shatter skill I know of. The opponent will be dead after the stomp and my illusions will die anyway. So I sacrifice them to end it.

Otherwise, sorry but no. I will continue to pump out phantasms without shattering them and I refuse to waste all of it on a “risk/reward” playstyle. I don’t like risk. I don’t like shatters. And I feel that mesmers got shafted for a class mechanic that forces them into a disadvantage while using it.

P.S: Anet said that people weren’t using shatter enough. Did they ever bother to think about why they don’t have that complaint for any other class? The reason is that the “risk/reward” playstyle isn’t for everyone. And it shouldn’t be the case that mesmers have to play the risk/reward game.

In the end no matter what benefits you give to shattering, the fact is that it elicits a cost from us Mesmers. And for that reason alone it is unappealing. And also, we are the only class that needs to make this trade off.

P.P.S: I think I should make a new thread with my thoughts

One other thing – there are different types of mesmers, and not all of us use shatter as a primary mechanic. Personally I use phantasms and condis with lots of reflects and am fairly tanky. Lots of thieves hurt themselves on my by using SB which I sit inside my whirling warden.

For us, you need to blind, blind, blind. It’s also a bit dangerous since reflects will end up blinding you (if projectile based).

I never liked the shatter mechanic. Even now after 3 years of GW2. I’m going to continue to find ways not to shatter. I don’t like the idea of giving up my phantasms (long term damage) for a dubious short term one.

So I’m tweaking my regular phantasm build, but I stubbornly refuse to shatter. I was good with my previous build, and I will become good with this one too!

We should have more faith that people are not going to forfeit a game willy nilly. In GW1, the /resign button was available to everyone all the time. People were OK with it.

Ah, cool. Thanks!

Not really well up on the changes to Engi, so can you guys give me the name/trait that enables you to use another profession’s skill?

Today I saw an Engi use the guardian’s “Wall of Reflection” and (I think) black powder. I was alone on point with him, so I know there was no one else with him.

Also, I’m seeing some cases where the engi gets near perma stability – maybe an old skill that is now more viable?

Can confirm this bug as a Mesmer. Happens all the time since the Tuesday patch. Here are other PvP’ers talking about it as well: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Anyone-Has-a-Problem-Chaining-Skills/first

Skill chaining is not just an engi bug. It happens all the time on my Mesmer since Tuesday’s patch. I’ll press a skill in a chain, only to realize a few seconds later that it never activated!

Oh cool, I’ll try that out today!

I remember when GW2 first came out, you would get a damage report after your death – a summarized version of what killed you in total. Eg: Bleeding: xxx dmg . abc skill: xxx dmg.

Is there a way to get that report again? I know we have a combat log, but it’s not very useful to me since I have no way of getting total hits from certain skills. When I was starting out playing as a newbie years ago, that damage report told me which skills are damaging and dangerous.

Does anyone see that report anymore?

Yamsandjams.3267:

I was noticing a bit of this last night, having a bit of delay when trying to get my shield out.

I know in the past that this was sometimes due to on-dodge traits, like evasive powder keg or reckless dodge, but I didn’t have a trait like that at the time.

It’s possible it could just be due to the lag though. The servers can sometimes get hit with episodes of lag when patches like this come out because there’s constantly people downloading stuff, and this patch was relatively large.

Was there any particular skills that were giving you problems? I know some skills exhibit this sort of “delay” normally. For instance, I often find it impossible to chain the ranger axe auto attack into splitblade smoothly, there’s always this very clunky delay in between.

I’ve been playing my mesmer for 3 years, so I have a very good feel of what skills activate and how they do so. I’ve also played through terrible lag without this kind of problem. No…this is new.

I think Anet has changed something about the way skills are chained up. Maybe if a skill has an aftercast, you could previously press another skill and it would activate when possible. Now, that might have gone.

I’m just trying to come up with reasons for what I’m seeing. What I see is very real though. I face it in every single game I play.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Noticed this too, although my ping has been higher than normal since the patch (was normally sitting around 40-50, now I’m at an average of 120+) so this could be a contributing factor, if it is, it’s definitely the game, as my net hasn’t changed anywhere else.

Thing is, I’m not facing any other kind of lag. I test my lag by seeing how fast the “switch weapons” works – and I’m not having any problems – I’ve faced much worse without the issue of skill chaining…

Anyone else?

I’m having some problems quickly using skills one after another. I’ll press a skill button, only to have it not work…and a second later I’ll realize it hasn’t been activated. Now I have to press a skill after a slight gap and make sure it’s used before moving on to the next one.

This never used to happen before the patch. Am I the only person having this issue? Did Anet do something? Could it be lag caused by the large number of people logging on?

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Anet changed it so that they could sell specializations with new expansions, and not out of any need for balance or gameplay.

After all, how were they going to do it otherwise…

Food for thought.

A OK.8276:

In solo que? Or was this unranked you played against a party of 4?

Unranked. We don’t have solo q any more…Just edited original comment to add that fact…

Like many others, today I was a part of 5 soloers facing a pre-made of 4 in unranked. We lost 500-125 and 3 of my team mates opted to just sit out base.

So what excuse does Anet have now? This is supposed to be funny? Or is this intended?

How about this…just give us the options – via a checkmark or something, to never face pre-mades. I don’t mind waiting longer – it’s my choice. Those soloers who enjoy facing pre-mades are welcome to do so.

Just don’t force me to waste (and everyone else’s) time.

P.S: If you’re part of a pre-made, please consider going to the ranked q. It’s very bad manners indeed to do otherwise.

I’m pretty sure the bleeding trait on Duelist’s Discipline isn’t working. Given that they reverted the MtD change within hours, may I please request Anet to demonstrate the same urgency in fixing this bug?

Thank you.

Helicity.3416:

Check if your traits did not accidentally reset. Happened to me earlier.

You’re right. I reset the traits and it’s working now…!

My illusions are not causing bleeds on critical hits.

Also, the pistol attacks are not inflicting bleeding like they should with a 33% (traited) chance. Is this a bug, or am I missing something?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

actually, it is gw2 conquest mode that is anti solo queue.

I disagree. The mode is simple enough for PUG groups to easily help each other out and work together.

Sweetbread.4701:

abclemons.7093:

bhagwad.4281:

Even 2-man teams should not be allowed in unranked.

Lol. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve played unranked as part of premade… Voice comm teams want to test builds and prof comps too.

“Hey guys. I have this crazy idea about a 3 teef, 2 warrior team.”

“OK, dude. Let’s do that in Unranked.”

Oh man this 3 teef, 2 warior team on voice chat just totally stomped these pugs with 0 communication, it must be an AMAZING COMP! Good logic.

^^ This. The very presence of a premad on one end and the absence of it on the other skews whatever experiment you want to try out. Skill, and even team comps don’t matter. If you are serious about even testing your stuff, ranked is where you belong.

If you have enough time to form a pre-made in the first place, and if you want to win badly enough that you’re willing to coordinate with others, you are serious enough to be on ranked. Leave unranked alone.

Lachanche.6859:

It’s already there, it’s called Champion Brawler and it’s awarded for winning 10k of ranked games

The problem with that is the lack of milestones along the way. I like to have an “immediate next goal” to look forward to. Having 10k matches is too far away to be a motivator to play.

dday.9532:

I think they should remove the ability to solo queue into ranked queue… but remove team queue from ranked? I don’t think I agree with think I agree with that.

Conquest is made to be played with a team and plays out much better that way.

Solo q needs a different game mode before a separate queue.

Either like a random 3v3 arena or they could even make stronghold only solo queue, as it reminds me more of a fort aspenwood game type opposed to gvg.

Edit: To add to my reasoning, I believe unranked is a place to play with people that are not in your set team of 5, where you can play with your friends no matter how good they are, and not worry about your rating. that being said leaderboards need to be mmr based. And even though this is the case i win the majority of my soloq/duoq unranked games, so I’m sorry you had a bad day of games but they should not remove team queue form unranked.

Conquest is not “made to be played” with anything. I’ve been soloing on conquest for 3 years, and I think it’s great. You can choose to play conquest in a team, or solo no problems.

Teams should not be treated any better than soloers. It’s a playstyle that is neither good, nor bad. And there are far more soloers than teams, so it’s quite obvious where the playerbase lies.

If 2 or more people are teaming up, it represents enough seriousness to go to ranked. If they are coordinating to win, it means they want to win bad enough to make them play ranked.

Even 2-man teams should not be allowed in unranked.

Aktium.9506:

bhagwad.4281:

Aktium.9506:

bhagwad.4281:

Phaeton.9582:

The same stats means an easier game to balance, which ultimately is best for everyone.

Sorry :/

The developers can’t use that excuse to make their jobs too easy. Build diversity cannot be thrown over for “easy balance” – that’s just lazy.

I would rather have good balance over diversity. Doesn’t matter if you think the devs are lazy/understaffed/bad at their job/confused/high as balls or whatever the reason may be. Because fact remains that we see meaningful balance updates very rarely, and if the devs feel that they need less diversity in stat spreads to balance things easier I will whole-heartedly support that.

The developers are welcome to make the game boring just so that their job becomes easier. Low build diversity = boring.

Bad class balance causes people to bandwagon onto said imbalanced classes/speccs en masse which kills diversity far more proficiently than any amount of streamlining of stats can ever hope to accomplish. Less diversity in stats is by far the lesser of two evils.

Hence the importance of frequent updates and paying attention to what you’re doing, the importance of admitting mistakes, and spending time listening to community feedback.

Sorry, but there are no shortcuts here. All of the above needs to be done, and it’s just poor form to reduce a lot of build diversity to have “easy balance”.

jax.5679:

New to mesmers. Really enjoy the gameplay, but feel SUPER squishy (cause I suck – I know… I’m working on it).

Can someone suggest a good survivability mesmer build in the June 23rd world??

Thanks!!

I’m going with phantasms and a celestial amulet – a mix of power and condition damage to take advantage of all the stats…

Aktium.9506:

bhagwad.4281:

Phaeton.9582:

The same stats means an easier game to balance, which ultimately is best for everyone.

Sorry :/

The developers can’t use that excuse to make their jobs too easy. Build diversity cannot be thrown over for “easy balance” – that’s just lazy.

I would rather have good balance over diversity. Doesn’t matter if you think the devs are lazy/understaffed/bad at their job/confused/high as balls or whatever the reason may be. Because fact remains that we see meaningful balance updates very rarely, and if the devs feel that they need less diversity in stat spreads to balance things easier I will whole-heartedly support that.

The developers are welcome to make the game boring just so that their job becomes easier. Low build diversity = boring.

Phaeton.9582:

The same stats means an easier game to balance, which ultimately is best for everyone.

Sorry :/

The developers can’t use that excuse to make their jobs too easy. Build diversity cannot be thrown over for “easy balance” – that’s just lazy.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Arena net already knows people want builds, you did not have to make another pointless thread stating the obvious. Builds will not be in the game until a long time after HOT. Finally, get over the fact that this isn’t guild wars 1 and also avoid telling sob stories.

He’s offering a serious suggestion that could make PvP much better. Don’t throw out a good idea merely because “it comes from GW1”. This forum is full of people making suggestions. Those are not “sob stories”. They are what this forum is here for.

I get really irritated with rangers in MY team, who refuse to get down from their perch and come help. I’ve had more than one situation where the ranger simply won’t assist with finishing off someone, and then it’ll be too late.

Please – an appeal to this current breed of rangers: Get your hands dirty a bit. Yes, long range support is much appreciated from a distance when that’s what’s necessary. But sometimes I just need another body ON POINT with me to assist with a finish, or maybe even to rez me.

GET DOWN from that ledge and do something other than stand and ping!

I know some people may not like a comparison of the two games, but well…I can’t help myself.

GW1 brought Cantha and Elona – each of which was an entire new game. Not just one or two new maps, but a different land altogether. Each as long as the initial “Prophecies”. Not to mention new skills for existing professions and of course new professions as well.

Granted, we probably haven’t seen everything “Heart of Thorns” has to offer, but…does this really compare to what we got in the first edition of the game?

Should I even be comparing?

Wow – I think I miscalculated. I thought that 1 BL ticket = 1 weapon. I see now that it requires 5 per!

There go my dreams of getting a collection

I see that collecting all the 16-19 skins of black lion weapons rewards you with 7 black lion claim tickets.

So purchasing all 16 weapons outrights from the TP will cost me obviously. It seems that the “Crimson Lion” skins are the cheapest with current “buy” offers ranging from 67g-90g for all weapon skins.

We’re looking at 1120g for all 16 Crimson Lion skins – which will get me 7 BL tickets. Is this an efficient use of gold for obtaining these skins? Or will BL key farming be more effective? I mean – if I calculate all the time it would take me to farm the keys and hope for BL ticket drops, would it be faster in the end to earn 1120g instead?

choovanski.5462:

there is no solo queue. it’s been gone for a long time.

people are going to continue to queue with friends, because you know its a team game in a social mmo. i queue alone rarely, and if you dont like that because you cant handle people working together in a team game i really dont care. i will play the team game as a team game.

Who is stopping you? And no one said we shouldn’t work together. Only that we need a mode where it’s strangers working together, not pre-arranged people.

I’m not sure if this solves the basic problem of shatters destroying our damage dealers. Phantasm builds are based on out-pressuring the opponent over time instead of dealing all of it in one burst. Shattering gives you a short term benefit at the cost of destroying your long term fight prospects.

For me, the only shatter trait relevant here is the one where phantasms respawn the first time they are shattered. Otherwise, I don’t see giving up 2-3 phantasms to obtain a fleeting beneficial effect. My phantasms are there to DPS over time – shattering cripples that DPS.

I realize Anet doesn’t like phantasm builds because they don’t shatter. Well…tough luck for them. Shatter is a key mechanic of a Mesmer, but so are phantasms. Unfortunately they are both antithetical to one another.