Guild Wars 2

TheDaiBish.9735:

cesmode.4257:

-Traditionally…bigger, better, larger and more enveloping content is released via sub based games. Whatever your feelings are on the living story, fact is that all of the content is some achievements, a 10-20 minute story-instance, and some zerging around via open world content with some zone changes. With sub based games you get entire zones opened up, entire quest lines and dailys that take weeks to go through, balance patches more often, new ‘end game content’(whatever that may be), possibly a new QoL system or some new game mode.

The only thing I’ll say about this is that the PvE content lasts longer only because it’s usually gated by the need to get gear / rep first.

If it wasn’t, then chances are it wouldn’t last much longer than the LS content.

You may be correct.

But think about how much you are seeing and doing with a traditional patch vs the 2 week breadcrumb LS updates. In most of the LS updates, we are funneled into one zone, and one corner of a zone ,or half of a map, zerging around killing champs and grinding out achievements. You see more and do more than blobbing around in other traditional content games.

I just see that traditional content updates offer far more than what we have been getting in the 2 week updates. Example: If you aren’t into winters day, and if wintersday was the only content added with the last update, then theres absolutely nothing new for you. Vs a traditional content game where the majority of the content added involves combat, which is the biggest reason we play these games…combat.

Julie Yann.5379:

I miss easy to obtain, non time gated, BIS gear.

This. I honestly think they could have stopped with ascended weapons. It is enough.

If the reason behind ascended gear is to bridge the time gap between ascended and legendary(and this assumes that everyone is going after a legendary which isnt true), and the only legendary slot is weapons…then adding ascended armor does not fit this logic at all.

I think ascended weapons is more than enough of a gold sink, time sink, etc.
Ascended armor is just a VP ploy to get people to continue reaching for something, rather than playing a VIDEO GAME for enjoyment.

If you cannot keep people playing your video game for enjoyment without adding a carrot on a stick, however small of a carrot, then thats a fault with development. That your game simply is not fun. Adding stat increases to that fact won’t fix it. Make the game fun.

I personally enjoy the game, and did not need any stat increase.

-i7 Ivy 3770
-GTX 460
-16 gb DDR3

This thread doesn’t belong in this sub-forum

Oh, everything nearly on high, and I don’t notice a large FPS drop in the largest zergs.

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Dondarrion.2748:

Looking forward to conclusion to Scarlet in next 4 LS updates; looking forward to new legendaries and precursor scavenger hunt, looking forward to next LS “series” and hopefully it brings a new ELDER DRAGON (you know, what this game is about, right?), new zones/playable races/professions.

Well, one can dream, and I hope it’s all inbound in 2014

Wildtrash, ESO won’t deliver (I will try the latter, but I don’t believe either will succeed, imho)
EQ:N/L caters to different crowd with its features (Next could be interesting though)…

Anyway – heavily invested in GW2 still – so c’mon Anet, dazzle me in 2014!

Reveal Scarlet as an elder dragon lieutenant and all will be forgiven

Just the existence of these new MMOs will likely hurt GW2. People will try them, and that puts them out of habit of logging into GW2. So even if the new MMOs are bad, a number of people won’t return to GW2.

GW2 really has to do something to stop people from even trying these new MMOs. But considering the first is coming in April, there’s not much time.

It depends. Something like the Elder Scrolls MMO might actually bring people who NEVER played an MMO to the table, and then, if the game doesn’t do well, Guild Wars 2 could end up with some of those people.

I know some of that went on with SWToR. There are people who liked Star Wars, sort of saw the possibilities in an MMO, didn’t end up liking the game and ended up playing Guild Wars 2.

It’s not the short game that’s important, it’s the long game.

Thats enormously speculating that GW2 might wind up with some of the disgruntled TESO folks. Hell, they might go to Wildstar, WoW. Or try a different free to play game, like Tera, Rift or Neverwinter. GW2 might get some, but to make it an arguing point is folly.

Sirendor.1394:

As Vayne states it’s not like this game suddenly will drop to spot #87 most played mmo or something. EVEN if Wildstar/ESO are better than GW2 (which is not certain at all, given that a lot of people will back off because of the mandatory subscriptions), it will still be in the top 5 of best mmos.

Curious… people used to shy away from non-subscription games because they didn’t think the developer had the financial backing to support the game and make it what it needs to be.

These days, people now shy away from traditional subscription based games. I think because games like GW2 has shown that you can have a quality game without a fee. However, this isn’t to say that sub based games are evil and should go away in favor of free to play.

Sub based games do have their benefits:
-No worry about pay to win via shady cash shop(not to say gw2 has a shady cash shop..)
-No worry about ‘pay to have the best looking gear’ — The gem store does have some more of the better looking armor. Yes yes yes, beauty in eye of the beholder, not everyone liks the same skins, etc../yawn. I know.
-Traditionally…bigger better larger and more enveloping content is released via sub based games. Whatever your feelings are on the living story, fact is that all of the content is some achievements, a 10-20 minute story-instance, and some zerging around via open world content with some zone changes. With sub based games you get entire zones opened up, entire quest lines and dailys that take weeks to go through, balance patches more often, new ‘end game content’(whatever that may be), possibly a new QoL system or some new game mode.
-A lot of people end up spending as much or more in cash shops than they do on subs.

Sub based games are not all bad. Wildstar will LAUNCH with player housing, TONS of end game content(they have been focusing on nothing else for the last 6 months but end game content to keep you playing), traditional raids, etc. So is 15 dollars a month, or 50 cents a day, worth it? Depends on you, but subscriptions shouldn’t be frowned upon.

IVIUIEI.9631:

I know I am, can’t wait to see what Anet have for us in 2014.

While I admire your enthusiasm, its best to keep it in check. While they tell us “we will do XYZ”, what they mena is..the will start doing XYZ. I, along with many, thought we would be getting new abilities by the end of 2013. What arenanet really meant was that we would get a new healing skill (which btw, in many builds isn’t earth shattering), and they will be adding more later(aka 2014).

I have learned that what arenanet says and does are two different things, because they like to play word play.

While I am excited, especially to see what comes out of the CDIs that we as players spend A LOT of time(so I hope we see something tangible soon), I am cautiously optimistic. I am not getting my hopes up. Not after a year if multiple disappointments and /facepalm’s .

Another idea Id like to toss out there…and this has been mentioned several times in this thread as well as the previous VP thread…

Id like to be able to discover new abilities. Someone in this thread posted some GW1 videos of defeating some mob to discover a new elite skill. I like this. I would love the ability to hunt down some specific creatures in the world for specific ability drops, not just elite abilities either. Id also like to stumble upon these abilities while just roaming. For example, I am harvesting a mining node and I get a card/consumable for a skill to double click and learn.

The thing is, though, if we tie these skills to mobs, say a champions or something, then we need to be weary of the champ train. You’ll have these trains forming to farm these guys into oblivion and this is not good for the game.

I want to be able to learn or earn abilities through playing ANY part of the game. Or, better yet…while completing dynamic events in game, have the reward tables adjusted to include these ability consumables.. So when I complete a DE, I am rewarded Karma, XP, coin, and the chance at an ability card to double click and learn.

An idea Id like to toss out to see if it sticks:

From the WoW days, they introduced a system called reforging.

Example:
Armor has
45 power
47 precision
+3% crit damage

I am able to visit a reforge NPC to change up the stats a bit. Via a pre-determined scale, I am able to take, for example, 9 power out of the ‘45 power’ portion and I can place it into Precision(to give me 56 Precision) or into a new category, for example Condition damage to give me 9 condition damage.

Just an idea. I think Blizzard is removing this mechanic from the game, or already has, since they have a better system in place. But this wasn’t a terribly bad system either. It gave you a bit more flexibility on gear.

Just quickly jumping into the fray without spending too much time…

One of the first things that I would / need to be implemented is a wardrobe. Have it be similar to the achievement skins wardrobe, or similar to the Mists pvp wardrobe. Either place a small karma cost on withdrawing a skin or not. But the cost should not be very high. Maybe 1000 or 2000 karma or something. It should be fairly easy and non earth shattering to with draw a skin.

Hi,
Curious why most thieves I talk to are surprised that someone would run P/P or believe that P/P is not viable (pve speaking).

I am able to chain 9k+ unloads, totalling about 27k in a matter of seconds. For a non-warrior, isn’t that at least halfway decent if not almost on par with a warrior hundred blades?

Doggie.3184:

I miss when I bought Spark super cheap in TP. :o

And being able to Shadowstep with less restrictions.
The Fact that S/D was actually used in WvW quite often.
A lot of things I could do pre Thief nerfs. O_o
The Way Thief Looked Like It’d Be Super Awesome Being Able To Viably Use Pistols When Trailer Came Out Before Everyone Actually Got To Play Them.
When most of my friends actually played.
Snakes.
Storyline. Personal Story finished a long time ago. Nothing added to it yet.

I chain 9k+ unloads right after one another …so probably 27k dmg in a spam of a few seconds.

Thats not viable?

I HATE cliffside. I get it..
every
time.

There is not a fractal run since fractured! that I have not gotten cliffside.
Ever.

zenleto.6179:

JustTrogdor.7892:

zenleto.6179:

JustTrogdor.7892:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

JustTrogdor.7892:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Well, the category is ‘expansion or update’ and it doesn’t specify that it has to be perm.

Either way I find it odd that the most highly acclaimed GW2 ‘update’ isn’t really GW2 but an 8bit side game. I’ll dig up my NES if I want to play those types of games.

shrug

All rewards are opinion based. You don’t necessarily have to agree. Its just like critics and movies. The critics give it a C, you go see it, like it, to you it gets an A.

And my opinion is I would have rather seen GW2 recognized for adding something more permanent that actually was GW2 play and not a temporary 8bit side game. If I had a vote in it I would have said it was the addition of the wallet system. Kind of sad but true.

And I would have panned the wallet. One person’s opinion is always going to be another’s WTF!

At least the wallet is permanent. When was the last time you got to play SAB?

Actually, thinking back if I had a vote it would have been Bazaar of the Four Winds since we are talking updates and apparently not permanent content updates. It came with a new map, ability to trade in stacks of low level mats for skin tokens, DEs in the map, champion fights, all sorts of fun skills to zip around the map and explore, and a now permanent mini game. It was the most well developed temporary update I have seen.

Not since April, though my Asura ranger is loving his bow skins.

Absolutely agree on the Bazaar. Single best update in my opinion and I can’t wait for it to come back.

Fractured! was mine, to be honest. Got me into fractals again, if even just a little.

Bazaar was OK. The thing I hated about bazaar and most of the other updates was the amount of achievements…just stupid really. It seems arenanet is learning that we dont want 18 achievements with multiple tiers to grind out, so maybe the CDI had some impact? Id like to think so and hope the trend of minimal achievements continues.

Congrats to arenanet/gw2, but I mean…do you need multiple topics for this?

bobomb.5209:

Maybe an “Elite Revive Orb” that does what you specified, but can only be used in PvE. I can Arena Net doing this. But as for PaytoWin? It would be completely unfair in any other gamemode besides PvE. Is it pay to win in PvE? Who cares who are you beating NPC’s? No one cares that you spent a little money to have an advantage in a boss fight that could save the fight. Would you REALLY complain if someone on your team used a revive orb, revived all of your dead team mates, and basically gave your fight a second wind? No you wouldn’t and if you would, you would only be saying that to try to prove me wrong, which you won’t.

True, very true.
stirring the pot here to further a discussion

Unless you consider the incoming fractal leaderboard…if guilds are trying to compete there, and Guild A has a full stock of these elite revive orbs, and Guild B doesnt..Guild B is at a slight disadvantage.

ProxyDamage.9826:

dot dot dot

As for Warframe-style, what’s the point of suggesting something you’re so heavily against from the start? I mean, it’s pretty evident that Warframe’s system is fundamentally stupid… Warframe isn’t exactly a fantastic game… No, I don’t want it here…

Read the above post buddy. Warframe death mechanic is not the same as the revive orb.

Also, this is a forum isnt it? Im creating a discussion to see if ppl would want it in GW2 and if it would work in a game like GW2.

Did you slay her?

Curious to see what a dev thinks on something like this.

Or, even if the benefits of the pay to rez mechanic in the topic here is different than a revive orb, are they essentially the same? Are they both teetering on pay to win?

Hi,
So I have a friend that had mentioned once or twice that he might return to GW2, but then got sidetracked by other games. He is a WoW hardcore raidier…but was quasi interested in GW2. Back in October 2012, he leveled a ranger to 80, and promptly left the game to return to WoW to raid.

His reasons for leaving were:
-No endgame at the time
-Leveling crafting was too difficult when leveling up. He didnt have the materials to do so…such as small fangs or small scales I suppose. Me, for whatever reason, had enough and leveling a crafting profession was only good for experience, nothing more in those days.
-Grinding for aesthetics was not appealing to him.

So with these two reasons…how should I approach him to get him to play again. I told him fractals can be very difficult and are quite unique with the mechanics, so they could satisfy the ‘endgame’ content that he needs. Along with Tequatl, and a few of the explorable paths.

The crafting issue..I have no idea.

He watches my livestreams sometimes, but still doesn’t seem to want to give the effort to return.

Any thoughts?

I agree, I dont support it either, and I dont like this idea. Just curious if people would like it in GW2.

I wouldnt like it.

Diviner.7405:

You answered your own question. Revive Orbs.

/End of Topic

Not quite. Revive orbs take time and place a movement impairment on you. If you use a revive orb, it takes 30 seconds to a minute or whatever, and then you limp off to the side and most likely get picked off by the boss anyways.

What I mentioned in the OP was an instant revival, no movement impairment(and I
should have mentioned full hp.

/topic open.

Edit: I modified original post.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Wait…. wasn’t one of the biggest complaints about fractals, previously, that it wasn’t account bound when it came to fractal level? (As such, making it not “alt friendly”)

Now it is….and it’s an issue?

kitten ed if they do, kitten ed it they don’t….

Agreed. I like the change that it is not account and not character bound.

This means if I have the AR on a particular toon, I can play him/her without being restricted via level.

Addition: This is a system that is in the game Warframe. In Warframe, you are given 4 lives per day. If you use them all up, and die again, you lose all your progress in the current mission as well as any items you collect.

For those of you that don’t know, in warframe materials gathering is everything as is crafting. So comparing a guy that spent $$ on more lives vs someone who didn’t…the guy who didnt loses everything if he dies where the person who bought more lives continues on.

Pay to win? Would this work in GW2? Would you buy this if it were in the gem store?

Hi,
Curious what people would think if GW2 suddenly had a mechanic in game where once you are dead(not downed but dead), you can spend real $$ to pick yourself up again.

Example: You are in a dungeon, engaged a boss. You die. Either your teammates stop to rez you , which we all know can be treacherous and difficult, or you spend like 3 dollars on a rez and instantly pop back up. These cash-bought rezzes would be bought via the gem store. It is similar to the revive orb, but no rez sickness and no movement impairment and you come up with full HP.

Would you approve of something like this in game? Or do you think it borders the pay to win realm?

Edit: I would not support this. I personally think it teeters on the cusp of Pay to Win. Just curious what ya’ll think.

Ah thanks!! Worked! I didnt know what to do and heard some people talking in map chat early on that we were waiting for one more achievement to be added so I got my 11/12 and didnt look at living story until now.

Oh..? So other than the invasions, where can I find some of the clockwork minions

Im sorry, I meant The Nightmare is Over…it is under the Living World tab.

Hi,
So I had a quick question… I have 11/12 achievements for The Nightmare Within. Yet, there isn’t anything else to complete. Are we awaiting the last achievement to be released to us? Or am I missing something else?

VOLKON.1290:

Ashen.2907:

VOLKON.1290:

you can click your target you know, yes?

Sometimes. You can’t always see your target.

He said the target was nearest to him and right in front of him, so I’m assuming he can see it based on that information.

Have you played GW2? Haha. The target can be directly in front of me, within 1 meter, and you still can’t see him sometimes with all of the effects going on. Not to mention, and this is something that I will suggest in the suggestion forums, I cant find my mouse pointer in the sea of all that nonsense going in order to click anywhere I need to.

^^^ what he said.

Plus, I think on these sites it tells you what you get.

@OP:

First, LOL at the ‘012’ lol..its said 2012, and I don’t think you can say it as you would 2009 as in ‘09’. Hugs.

Kidding aside…

I agree with the spirit of your post in that GW2 is not what was hyped up, whether it was via the almighty manifesto or not…just the dev blogs, the interviews, the videos, the fansites, everything hyped GW2 to be what it is not today.

-My actions, let alone a single action, have no impact on the world.
-I do kill the boss and 10 minutes later he DOES respawn contrary to the manifesto(which was cleared up as she was referring to the personal story…well DUH, thats instanced and I will never see that part of the personal story again with that character. ? Really, you were referring to that)
-Combat IS grindy. 9/10 fights you can spam 1 and win. Aside from WvW, aside from certain explorable paths, you can get away with minimal effort and win. Hey I swung my sword, again and again and again Colin J. Thats not fun right? Thats something you said won’t be present in the game, but it is.
-The above bullet has nothing to do with materials grind and grind in general, but this is the most grindy game Ive ever played.

With that said, please don’t tell me you bought the game expected to play a healer class and be the sole savior of the group. Do the research. One of the reasons Ilike GW2 is because it is trying its hand with no classes and defined roles. I think its a positive. Now, if they can only make content that encourages more support, healy tanky builds, that would be great.

Overall, the game is good. Its hooked me for more hours than any other MMO combined aside from WoW. I can see that Im nearing the end of the road with GW2 as their design direction has major issues, and other awsome looking MMOs are just on the horizon. It might be time to cut my losses and try my luck in those games. But until the first one releases, I’ll probably stay here. Its just a matter of whether or not arenanet listens to us in the CDIs and impliments real change before any of these games releases.(from my part anyways)

stone cold.8609:

I stopped playing the game about 3 months ago. I haven’t posted to the forums since, but wanted to log in to contribute to this remarkable thread. My comments are only meant to reflect my observations/opinions.

I really think the game has great potential and gets many things very right (especially all things Asuran), which is why I haven’t completely given up on it yet. I was probably considered a “serious casual” player. I had 1300+ hours spread over 3 fully geared BIS level 80 characters, map completion, dungeon master title, and around 4400 AP. I didn’t have a main and was content to hang out in Rata Sum or Metrica helping guildies or newbies with quests, running dungeons, or soloing champs in Orr. As a former long time Diablo 2 player, I was planning on spending many years doing this and never felt that I needed vertical progression to keep me with the game. In short, I was very satisfied with the state of the game then.

I only started to play GW2 because of the initial marketing messages of no grind, no vertical progression, BIS exotics should be easy to get (and let’s be honest, that is how the game was marketed). I didn’t want the typical MMO experience. When the game changed focus abruptly and added the unnecessary, overly grindy and expensive ascended tier (in my opinion) and the overabundance of time gates, it went from the best gaming experience I had to one of the worst (again, in my opinion). I now no longer had BIS. I had an evergrowing list of tasks that I had to do each day or fall behind with no chance to catch up. And to top it all off, I had to craft (which is something I don’t care for in any game) to get ascended. I really tried to get with the new game direction because I really liked the Asuran immersion, but it was really no fun anymore for me so I just stopped playing.

The point of my post is to say that there have been a lot of great suggestions brought up in this thread (and I’ve read all 39 pages) which has lead to the proposal that Chris said he will discuss internally. If some of these ideas are actually implemented in game in a way that will lessen the impact of ascended gear and time gating, I’ll happily get my Asura out of storage and come back to Tyria.

I’ll be checking back every now and then to see if something substantive comes out of these efforts. I do commend the Chris and the ANET team for reaching out to us like this and am hopeful for the best.

To everyone still playing, I wish you all good game!

I think many people feel the same as you. I know I do. Ive taken breaks and come back…trying not to get caught up in any of the grind, but its everywhere no matter what you do.

So, heres to hoping the CDI has some real tangible results in game within the next few months or Im going to feel burnout in GW2 again, where I used to have fun.

Well, after three CDIs they should have a darn good idea what we want and don’t want concerning the three largest parts of the game: LS, WvW, and ascended gear.

They would be foolish not to make adjusting their development direction top priority for 2014 concerning these.

andytango.2950:

I thought TERA’s combat was pretty bad actually. The animation lock made the combat feel extremely clunky. It was like every skill was a channel.

GW2 has one of the best combat systems of any RPG. The manual/auto targetting hybrid is a very smart implementation to combat lag but still support a skill curve.

The animation lock is intentional and purposeful. You dont spam your abilities like you would in a game, such as GW2 or WoW. If you do, and youre animation locked, you risk being stomped on by the boss.

GW2 has a decent combat system with the combo fields and all but the targeting is the absolute pits. Its always been bad. I need to sift through 10 targets including tequatl fingers and undead to get to tequatl . Its rediculous.

I dont think many games are Pay 2 win anymore. I do think that you can throw real $$ at the game, much like Diablo 3(up until march that is) or Warframe, and get to the BiS gear quicker than someone who farms. But just giving the player the option to farm and grind it out eliminates the possibility of the game being pay 2 win. Even if the items would take months to craft, such as ascended gear being that you need to have a TON of materials that could be bought on the TP(which you could have bought gems, converted to gold and made this route quicker).

The ultimate deciding factor if a game is pay to win: If a statistical item or consumable or whatever is ONLY available on the cash shop and not available to be grinded out in game, it is pay to win. If you can grind it out in game, its not pay to win, technically.

Whichever works. I think a new one couldn’t hurt.

FeveredDreamer.2693:

cesmode.4257:

To take something from EQ Next(which looks to be amazing), and I have suggested this in the thread already but I want to re-iterate: discovering classes out in the world. In EQN you pick a class archetype, say a mage/wizard/elementalist caster type. You are playing the game and discover, through some method I dont know how(it could be as simple as finding it at the end of a cave in a chest), a new class such as a Monk for example. You can ‘consume it’, and now use your wizard spells and monk spells on the same hotbar…you make your own class. Horizontally.

Something similar can take form in GW2. If not in the form of complete classes, then finding skills and abilities specifically for your class. If I am in Iron Marches doing an event, I could find or be rewarded an ability specific to the class I am playing. Double click to consume and I can now use it.

This would be good beans.

Two of the things that have me most excited about EQNext are the same things that brought me to GW2. The promise of a living changing world that players can actually impact and the promise of deep horizontal progression over the standard vertical business. I’m doing my best not to get too hyped about EQNext as it is nowhere close to release, but I’m also hoping that GW2 continues to work on so many of these ideas that offered something genuinely new and fresh to the genre.

People have made some awesome suggestions in this thread, from Chris’ suggestion of vertical character (rather than gear) progression through skills to the continued urging of separating appearance from stats (skin locker) there are many ideas for pushing GW2 in what I consider to be the right direction. Ideas folks have expressed about prestige classes, specialization or anything else to separate vertical progression from the gear ladder are great and I hope some thought is put into what the value of perpetual loot-chase really is. I’m super-excited about the CDI but I also am way more “wait and see” than I once was, a game’s direction is a big deal and at the moment I’m still not so sure where GW2 is headed in the future.

I feel the same way for the most part. And honestly, anything that comes about from the CDI probably won’t make it into game for a few months. Id guess that at earliest, 3-4 months before we see the big changes… By that time I might have moved on. Fantastic games are on the horizon with early 2014 releases, like Wildstar. While I am enjoying GW2 again and still ‘progressing’ in my own little way, its likely I won’t see the fruits of our labor here in these threads to fruition before I make the decision to leave the game. Im patient, but a lot of these suggestions and changes aren’t hard to see before you impliment, and should have been thought of before hand. So, we are 1+ yr into release, add a few more months, and I’ll probably be tired of waiting for positive change to the elements of the game. It’ll be time for something new.

With that said, I think it says something to my devotion of this game where I am trying to contribute to the success of it by participating in these threads knowing that theres a good chance I won’t see these changes go live before I lose all ambition to play and leave.

Inspired.6730:

cesmode.4257:

Inspired.6730:

With fractured what was really removed was content. The fractal levels over 30 that had existed over 30 were removed from the game. And while this is definitely something to complain about, it is not first time its been an issue with GW2.

The levels werent removed from the game. They are still there. And levels aren’t content. Its a number. You can still progress in levels. But, for example, level 42 was not removed from the game…its there.

The levels that had existed were removed. Yes they added new higher level ones, but they are not the same as the ones they removed. They just reused the level numbers and thus the required reset. The old level 42 and the new level 42 are not the same. And levels over 50 were removed and not even replaced with anything new.

The way I always saw each fractal level was more as the name of that particular dungeon, so fractal level 42 was a specific dungeon. I guess not everyone saw it that way.

How are they not the same? You still receive 3 fractals and now a bonus fractal regardless, from the same pool of fractals. Infact, they have added fractals. The content is the same. Content != difficulty/levels.

I don’t see the allure to level up to, say, 50 in fractals. Do you folks find large amounts of profit up there? I am sitting at 29, and I will probably only go to about 40 or so. I like the PVE challenge, because other than Tequatl, and a few explorable paths, theres not alot of challenging PVE content in the game. And I think 40 is a reasonable number to get to, and the risk vs reward probably levels off at some point.

The only reason I see people going much higher is for vanity, and because they just like going higher and higher in fractals. I cannot see fractals as a reliable method of earning karma and coin, in the scheme of a risk vs reward vs time…

I can probably earn as much karma in the queensdale champ train stress free drinking a beer and auto attacking.

This should go in the CDI discussion. Horizontal discussion to be happening today me thnks.

Inspired.6730:

With fractured what was really removed was content. The fractal levels over 30 that had existed over 30 were removed from the game. And while this is definitely something to complain about, it is not first time its been an issue with GW2.

The levels werent removed from the game. They are still there. And levels aren’t content. Its a number. You can still progress in levels. But, for example, level 42 was not removed from the game…its there.

Gibson.4036:

cesmode.4257:

Hahaha. Well, the nerdraging might happen, but it also could have happened in the current CDI and it really didnt. We were all pretty civil.

True. I probably should have left out an exclamation mark or two.

Still, I wouldn’t expect much would be gained from it. Just the same circular “discussion” with the only change being Chris popping in to confirm that he’s reading.

True. We agree with each other, haha.

But, maybe it would put an end to the constant existance of these threads. Every few weeks theres a manifesto pesto thread. If arenanet confronted this head on and said “Hey, heres a forum for you guys to have it, vioce your opinions and thoughts on the subject…but do it in accordance with forum rules”..give us a place to vent where they come in and chime their thoughts.. maybe after all is said and done, we will be spent on the topic.

Hell, give a warning.. “We will give a thread dedicated to this topic. We will participate in it much like we do in the CDI. Vent your feelings and thoughts, but keep it civil and abide by the forum rules. After this discussion is done, we will close the thread and any thread that follows it that is strictly about the manifesto will be closed immediatley because you have had you chance to discuss this issue at length for a year and in a forum dedicated to it. You have been warned.”

We then go at it for a few days or a week or two..and then, poof. No more talking about it on the forums. Maybe we get some answers maybe we dont.

Gibson.4036:

cesmode.4257:

Can we have a CDI dedicated to this very topic? It seems to be on everyones mind, including my own from time to time, for the last year+ and is not going away.

No need, I can tell you what the CDI would entail.

Unhappy Players: “But the ManifestO!111!!ONE1!! You lied >:-(”

Happy Players: “That was a long time ago, things change, move on!”

This goes on for several pages before:

ArenaNet: “We still believe in the ideas expressed in the manifesto and are working to live up to them. We believe we have been true to them. Thank you for your feedback, we’ll discuss it among ourselves, there has been some good discussion here. We’re not at liberty to tell you what is currently in the works or what to expect in the future. kthanksbye!”

Followed by more pages of the player discussion above, before the whole thing gets locked and stickied.

Hahaha. Well, the nerdraging might happen, but it also could have happened in the current CDI and it really didnt. We were all pretty civil.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

cesmode.4257:

Nike.2631:

Dondarrion.2748:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Hi Chris,

Short reminder: Fractals reset?

Hi Chris,

please ignore this stupid, non-constructive remark.

Why the sudden upswing in volunteer moderation in this thread? Not just this post, there have been a couple lately.

And as a purely objective critique, how is this remark stupid? It was a topic in this thread in the past and our resident Dev-host indicated he was still thinking about it.

To those who are curious about that bit of cogitation, consider:

Fractal reward levels are actually horizontal progression (not vertical). They don’t give you ANY mechanical advantage outside of the fractals themselves. Unlocking level 50 doesn’t give you new skills or new buffs. The Ascended Gear can be earned without ever pushing deeper than LEVEL 1 (does progress get an ‘flatter’ than this? I mean really…).

So, please, just stand-by.

When we get into discussion horizontal progression, part of it will HAVE TO BE talking terms about some of the “soft” progressions. Is your increasing Luck/Magic Find a vertical progression? I personally don’t think so. If it’s possible for a number on your character sheet to go up, but for that to track horizontal progression (like ‘Luck’) then a number like “fractal reward level” has to be viewed as tracking a non-vertical progression also… and is about to become very topical to this thread.

I would agree. I understand why people were irate about being reset. But in the grand scheme of things, does it matter? Level 30, level 50…who cares? Lvl 50 gives you a slightly better chance at ascended stuff maybe? And an excuse to beat your chest a little harder than the guy at 30, or 20.

Eh, I just don’t see the big deal about being reset down to 30. You aren’t losing anything, just a number corresponding to level, which roughly content remains the same through the levels.

I lost Level 81. I lost 51 scales. I lost hudge ammounts of Karma I don’t get while playing fractals wich are worth more now after Karma reset. I lost the Chance of getting for 100% a Skin or a ring at daily chest if I had enough ar to complete 80 again. And most importanly I lost time… time is the key Thing here if your time spent gets reseted you feel angry about it no matter if you lost 200 hours for farming a legendary and the legendary gets deleted or you loose 200 hours for playing fractals and your Level gets deleted.

True and I can understand that. But the ultimately, its the same stuff, no? The karma reward from level 81 to 30 is not a 1000 karma spread or something. Curious, what was it at 81? Also, I would notion that queensdale champ farm is the most efficient method of karma farming. Anyways…besides the point.

My point is, level 30 or 80, what is different in reward? A little karma? A bit more change to get ascended skins or whatever?

Yes you lost the levels and while it may seem like you lost the time spent between 30 and 81, were you not playing the game then? Did you not record those experiences in your brain? This is a game, after all, and playing it should be fun. I reckon that you had fun during your trek to 80 (hopefully) and those experiences stay with you. You just get to do it again.

On the surface it looks bad, but really all you lost was a level number, and the ability to get a bit more karma than the rest of us. You still had the same ‘fun’ gameplay experience as the rest of us, and that won’t change when doing it all over again. It’ll be the same experience..and it will continue to be the same experience when youre at the level cap again.

Edit: if you could tell us what the rewards were like up on lvl 81 mountain, that could help sway my position.

FeveredDreamer.2693:

Faowri.4159:

HiddenNick.7206:

You are talking like Vertical Progression is the next bad thing after meteor shower! And why is it so bad? Why do you think that Horizontal Progression is vastly superior to it? You’re not playing an ordinary game. You’re playing an MMO game. And that’s the kind game of game that grows vertically and endlessly (or to the moment when people stops playing it) whether you like or not. And characters should grow with it.

I’m not sure why you seem to think horizontal progression results in no character growth.

Regardless, I’m not playing just any MMO game. I’m playing an MMO that promised a vertical stat progression cap and horizontal progression and rewards. Cosmetics, new traits, new skills, new weapons, new ways to use those skills, new character-based areas to grow such as housing – all of this was on the cards. But I’m sure we’ll come onto that once the discussion moves on.

I wanted to reiterate this point since I’m not really sure of the value of +1 in the forum system. This is pretty critical and I think a huge part of why people were so upset throughout the entirety of the ascended launch. Certainly there are some who never heard of GW2 and just picked it up in the store. Yet there are also those who picked this game up precisely because it wasn’t meant to be the same as every other MMO, I bought GW2 not only because I thought that the game would be awesome but also in an attempt to show support for a company that theoretically dared to do something different with my hobby.

Years ago (and compounded with WoW) we were fed this idea that if you want to be an MMO player you have to spend your life in game constantly on the treadmill of vertical progression. There are dozens of games perpetuating this model, and if folks wanted to play them, they would be doing so. When I recommended this game to my friends who hadn’t heard it, I recommended it to them on the basis that it’d be different from the standard MMO loot chase.

In particular this line:

You’re playing an MMO game. And that’s the kind game of game that grows vertically and endlessly (or to the moment when people stops playing it) whether you like or not.

I don’t agree with that being the “definition” of an MMO, I play an MMO to (among other reasons) have an ongoing online environment to explore and enjoy with friends (and enemies). Endless vertical progression plays 0 role in my definition of an MMO and maybe it is worth considering that (even though everyone hates those old dev comments being brought up) the idea of not having endless vertical progression (particularly tied to gear) is actually interesting to some of the player base.

I’m not playing WoW, I’m not playing Everquest (though maybe EQNext) there’s a reason for that. GW2 isn’t and shouldn’t endeavor to be just another MMO.

To take something from EQ Next(which looks to be amazing), and I have suggested this in the thread already but I want to re-iterate: discovering classes out in the world. In EQN you pick a class archetype, say a mage/wizard/elementalist caster type. You are playing the game and discover, through some method I dont know how(it could be as simple as finding it at the end of a cave in a chest), a new class such as a Monk for example. You can ‘consume it’, and now use your wizard spells and monk spells on the same hotbar…you make your own class. Horizontally.

Something similar can take form in GW2. If not in the form of complete classes, then finding skills and abilities specifically for your class. If I am in Iron Marches doing an event, I could find or be rewarded an ability specific to the class I am playing. Double click to consume and I can now use it.

This would be good beans.

This discussion is evolving into a general gaming discussion. Ive suggested in the suggestion forums for a general off-topic discussion forum to talk about this stuff.

But this thread will be locked soon because it is deviating from GW2, and non-gw2 discussions are not allowed hence the need for one of these forums.

Vayne.8563:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

killcannon.2576:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

azizul.8469:

manifestos are the things of the past….

Sadly so is Guildwars 2 it seems, especially with 2014 just around the corner..

I’m not saying this in malice, i feel their manifesto was the right direction and listening to the “end gamers” back then was misdirection.

One of which has had repercussions to this day..

See this is particularly the kind of comment this forum doesn’t need. You don’t know how healthy the game is. You don’t know how many people are actually enjoying it. But you say that the game will be a thing of the past, with no evidence whatsoever.

This is not a post that’s helpful or constructive. It is, in fact, just a future prediction based on the fact that some people don’t like this game. Well some people don’t like WoW, but they seem to be doing okay.

It’s so easy to make comments like this, but they’re usually based on people assuming that more people share their opinion than is actually the case.

WoW is shedding players pretty quickly. What is sad though? Their fix is to copy game mechanics from GW2 which the players don’t want in that game. Timeless Isle is a bit of a joke. And they plan to produce their next expansion around those ideas. smh.

Starting to think there is just one big water cooler that all mmo devs drink out of.

Such as? What’s wrong with Timeless Isle? It allows new players or players who’ve come back after a significant break from the game (like me) to experience the current raid content.

Sigh. When they decided to start being “nice” to all the casual weekenders, and instituted the lfr system, and the lfg system, and welfare epics is when the game started shedding players.

There’s a timeline some poster made up over on their forums. It’s pretty telling that when WoW started being casual friendly was when their sub numbers tanked.

The moral here is that instead of chasing players, just design a quality game and stay true to your design philosophy….whatever that may be.

WoW started being “casual friendly” during Lich King and subs were at an all time high.

And? They didn’t remove anything. They added tools and ways for more people to see the content. You know, those things called raids that the vast majority of people never even set foot in during Burning Crusade. Raids, which they spend significant resources in order to create.

By the way, WoW, a 9 year old game, has more active players than this one does.

Wow is a game that was released to almost no competition with a war chest a mile high from sales of other games. They spent more money on advertising than Anet could hope to.

So this comparison is beyond meaningless. A game comes out with no competition, and a fortune to advertise and does well. No big surprise there.

If WoW was released today, no one would care.

Interesting thoughts, but not sure I agree or disagree yet.

WoW had a few things going for it: no competition, cartoony dull graphics that could work on a myriad of machines, and they jacked some core concepts from other games.

While WoW did not have competition at its release, they have been “tested” over the years with many releases claiming to be the WoW killer and all of these games bounced off of WoW like a rubber ball.

The last sentence, I have to ask a question:

‘If WoW were released today, no one would care.’

My question is this.. Is that before during or after WoW stamped its mark into MMO history? By your statement, no one would care if WoW were released today. But if it were released today, was there an MMO giant that would have filled its shoes for the last 8+ yrs? Or would people look at a game like WoW, compare it to all the predecessors in aion, warhammer, swtor, etc..and say “woah, polished gameplay, lots of things to do at end game, huge raiding capacity..I like”.

Curious to think about it the other way. By the way, the last sentence in the above paragraph describes what Wildstar is/might be. I dub it, WoW 2.0 in space with all the trimmings of the modern day MMO style.

Sigh. Is this still going on?

Can we have a CDI dedicated to this very topic? It seems to be on everyones mind, including my own from time to time, for the last year+ and is not going away.

Rama.6439:

cesmode.4257:

So, something strikes me odd about this line of thought…

Prior to the games launch, it is known that the game is free to play, and arenanet’s own staff says “Its OK to put the game down, and come back at a later date. We don’t expect you to be entertained every day of the year since this is not a sub model based game”. Along with that, they are not required to keep you entertained every day of the year, since you are not paying a sub. You are playing for free.

With this line of thought, arenanet has adopted the two week cadence to combat this very topic of being bored. No sub model, no requirement on their part to keep you logging in…yet they have changed their way of doing things to do just that.

Curious why they changed their views, and curious why all of you who are ‘bored’ did not see this when you bought the game? If you did your research you would know theres no raiding so traditional endgame doesn’t exist.

The only end game that exists, and you can do this at almost any level:
-WvW
-Living Story
-Ascended armor materials grind
-Legendary materials grind
-World Bosses and events.
-Guild Missions.

Thats about it. I don’t consider Dungeons, or map completion as end game. They are run of the mill in any game and really have lost their luster in consideration for ‘end game’.

That’s hilarious, I remember them PROMISING us a NO GRIND GAME! And the 2 week content you speak of, if someone wants to take a break from the game, if they come back to the game, that content is gone, removed, they cant do it cause it is TEMP CONTENT! That is why my friends quit, they took a break from the game and when they returned saw all that they had missed and had no way to do any of it cause it had been removed from the game.

And I have made 4 legendaries, waste of my life…

Well, I won’t disagree that this is one of the most grindiest games you can play that came out of the West, I agree you will be behind if you skimp out on some LS content(behind in terms of lore and AP). Specifically to the comment about grinding, to Arenanet’s credit…they did mean combat grinding. Boring combat. However, agian Zergs foster this and encourage this.

I just see a lot of contradiction going on here from both playerbase and developer.

Developer says no grind. We get grind(whether its for materials or spamming #1 on your hotbar in a zerg).

Developer says “play the game how you want to play”. But to get any decent gear in the game you have to step outside of WvW and run temples and dungeons, for example.

Developer says “you can stop playing and pick it up at any time”..this was before the living story and the two week release schedule.

Player sees GW2 and buys. Player is upset theres no raiding in the game. My response: Do your research?

Player complains theres nothing to do at end game. Living Story, achievement grinding, materials grinding for ascended gear, etc…added to the game. Player complains that theres too much to do.

The Lost Witch.7601:

Aeonblade.8709:

tl;dr There are too many currencies in game. Make a universal horizontal progression/skin currency used to purchase all skins in game.

I’m sure I’ll have more to add later, but I’m thinking pretty heavily on currency squish atm for ease of horizontal progression, because right now it feels far too painful to even deal with.

There are a few problems with this:

• If we can get everything by doing one thing, let’s say speedrunning CoF. I believe that players may feel discouraged to do the other, less profitable things in this game. Since they would be less effective at getting to their goal. Unaware of their tunnelvision they might keep doing the most effective thing and get bored and burned out in no-time.

• Players wouldn’t be able to show off their achievements. (Except perhaps the amount of achievements they’ve gained if some items require a lot of the currency)

• If you need the same currency for everything, you wouldn’t be feeling the impulse to get something because you already have some of the currency. (Let’s say I have 180 AC tokens, now I might be inclined to get a few more so I can get a weapon.) With just one currency, you are most likely working towards ‘broke’ and then climbing back up. The main choice being: shall I get this now? Or save up for that later?

I think this game needs multiple currencies. The investment required should just not be too high on these currencies, so a journey into a game mode to get a specific item wouldn’t be outrageously time consuming.

And more importantly: the limited currencies should not be the only way to buy stuff that affects your characters combat potential.

I have to comment on this. I agree that we need fewer currencies and should rely more on the universal ones, i.e. karma.

I look at a game like Firefall. The world is your oyster in that game. It didn’t matter what content you were doing, you were rewarded the same. Coin, experience, and resources(materials). Go out and do missions, do events, etc etc etc..

For doing a simple small mission such as clearing out a bunker of baddies, I would receive in game coin(gold), experience(which is also used as a currency), and multiple resources(such as various metals, ores, etc…). I could then go to a larger open world event where 10-20 of us are beating down a baddy, and I would receive the same types of rewards, just more of them. After the event is done, I go back to roaming and doing whatever events I came across.

During my travels in the game, not once did I feel like I wasted time or effort. I never felt like I should have been doing something else in order to work toward progress because anything i did rewarded the same three types of currencies.

You then take these currencies and purchase upgrades to your frame(your suit) via experience and resources, and then craft new weapons and gear via resources.

Everything you did rewarded you the same types of stuff, so you never felt like you were wasting time. And there was no efficient route of events because things didn’t kick off in sequence like they do in GW2, which is a DEFINATE area that needs change.

Just my two cents.