Guild Wars 2

I believe he means after the burn is completed it would be 7000 damage

Maxing out condition damage, bleeds will be toughly 125 and burn 750ish. Those numbers are not dead on but I rounded for simplicity.

That means you have to stack 6 stacks of bleeds to equal 1 damage tick of burn. In other words 6 stacks of bleeds for 7 seconds is required to do the equivalent amount of damage as burn stacked for 9 seconds.

Gurt.9368:

For bombs to really shine though, they need 30 points in inventions and then another 20 or so in explosives. So engineers don’t get bombs and grenades in one spec.

I disagree with this assessment. I personally do not feel short fuse is necessary, as your main direct damage comes from the #1 skill. A pure condition build, that is a little different, it gets little damage comparatively on the #1 skill but gains greatly on the #2 and #3 skill. Not much if anything in the inventions line has much to do with shining with the bomb kit in my opinion. The skill to expand the damage radius is the most generally beneficial skill if you ask me, while the others are just fluff.

I am unclear how the 100 nades discussion has anything to do with what I was suggesting.

Scrolling back and doing a visual search of the last 5 pages reveals 11+ grenade discussions (average of about 5 seconds to scan a page of titles) , with the word grenade in the title. I would think those would be helpful to the OP.

Sorry if in my attempt to assist the OP and point out that it makes it difficult to find such threads of use when folks violate the code of conduct to frivolously duplicate the subject further.

Your assumption that by doing so, that I was in any manner, in a state of agitation, is certainly an incorrect one.

Manticore Five.9867:

If occasionally ganking more than one uplevelled noob means that the class is strong, then there is no such thing as an underpowered class, ever and all the devs can go home because all classes are perfectly balanced and will remain so forever.

Do you have any proof to support your claim that anyone here is making a comparison of the engineer to an up scaled noob ?

If you are going to make random attacking claims, It may help if you offer at least the mildest fact to support it. You have been making alot of quick and accusations all over the sub forums recently, but have yet to offer at least a reasonable fact or comparison to support your claims.

Other side of what debate ? I posted it, and I am on the side of the debate that suggest this particular grenade build is solid and not overpowered as the thread tittle claims. Are you suggesting you feel the so called “100 nades” build is too powerful?

Your having enough trouble speaking for yourself, without trying to put words in my mouth my friend.

Manticore Five.9867:

coglin.1496:

Define lack of damage please?

By what metric are you gauging that it has bad “damage” ?

Um, seriously? You’re seriously going to claim the FT has good damage now? I should hope you have some backup for this crazy new claim?

Oh, I see. The tactic is simply to present enough arguments that the person gets tired of refuting them. Well, it succeeded.

Just don’t ever ask why no one ever debates you on these threads. It’s been tried. It hasn’t been reciprocated.

So you have no metric or comparison to offer? That doesn’t help your perspective at all. Secondly, I never made any such claim as to state I felt the FT does good damage. I simply stated I personally feel it doesn’t do bad damage. Please do not try to put words in my mouth. It doesn’t help your argument at all.

I am curious, but what tactic are you referring to? You mean my tactic of taking a step back and politely offering you an opportunity to offer a reasonable metric to gauge it to, or a reasonable comparison?

If it is so bad, I thought you would jump at the chance to actually convince me, when I tried to offer you one. Refusing to do that kind of makes it seems like your here to troll and rage rant, rather then discuss it.

Manticore Five.9867:

Kardiamond.6952:

Teldo doesn’t win 1 vs 1 because it’s not is job.

I don’t think he “can’t” win them, but he don’t have too. He is a support AoE dps. Losing his time in a 1on1 wouldn’t help his team.

Nope. 3:45, someone pops out of a portal and he promptly gets his butt kicked and has to run… er, I mean “go help his team”.

Try again.

---

This is what I mean about engineer-is-fine apologists. They can see the evidence right in front of their eyes, but they’ll forever have another excuse. Forever.

Are you suggesting that because one player in one very minute, and specific instance, was out played by one, and only one, other player, that it some how deems the engineer is bad?

So by using that metric that your representing, if I show you 3 other videos of those two groups competing and he downs that particular mesmer 1 v 1 six times, what does that say about the engineer ? Given the context of your post, its a reasonable question.

Manticore Five.9867:

And there you go again, you utter the words “balanced kit”, as if that somehow excuses the lack of damage.

Define lack of damage please?

By what metric are you gauging that it has bad “damage” ?

Serious question. If you feel there is a real problem, lets have a real discussion on it without broad claims. Give us a reasonable metric by which to gauge the damage value. Then present a reasonable fact or comparison to an equivalent, anything to support your position.

Offer anything beyond this “its broke because I said so” argument. I have grandchildren I can have that discussion with, from you sir, I request a more reasonable approach. Am I asking to much?

Manticore Five.9867:

For example, I brought up the specific example of deadly mixtures not resulting in the damage-oriented kit flamethrower having decent damage. That observation was not refuted, but merely handwaved away by the apologist, claiming that he had better survivability.

Not really. We just assumed the 19 threads created since the update here claiming and discussing that the FT is now a solid kit after the update, spoke for them selves.

I will weigh your one claim against all those threads

……………….weighing…………..weighing………………weighing…………………

Okay my logic scale says there is an imbalance in recent opinion. I mean its subjective opinion as to whether or not it is or isn’t weak or solid. The issue is you actually believe you claiming it is a fact makes it so, while dismissing all of those recent threads.

This leads back to my point. I offer and example of a what I felt was a reasonable imbalance between two skills, and presented at least one fact as evidence to support that. All your doing is spewing out your opinion at us, and then trying to force feed it to us as if your opinion on it is indisputable fact.

Guild Wars 2 Forum Code of Conduct

) Read the forum before asking a question. There’s a good chance your question has already been answered.

) Use the search function before posting. This will focus the discussion and facilitate a response.

) Avoid frivolous and duplicate postings.

That being said. There are very recent and extensive discussion on this topic. Perhaps you should do a small search and/or recent page once over before making yet another thread on it please. Making thread, after thread, after thread, causes it to be more and more difficult for people trying to do searches, and it would benefit you as the OP to have excess to much more information on this.

Manticore Five.9867:

Engineers are just fine for easymode PvE, where your biggest challenge is getting to the next map point.

It’s only when you compare it to other classes that you start seeing problems. You know, AFTER you spent the time in PvE building it up.

Unless you do something silly like use flamethrower kit. Then you’ll notice the problems a bit earlier.

I have had all professions to 80 for some time. I spent time indungeons, sPvP, and WvW with all as well. I still main an engineer, and my personal experience Contradicts this “claim”.

Manticore, what classes have you leveled to 80 and put in equivalent gear to that of your 80 engineer to, that qualified you to repeatedly claim they are all better then the engineer?

I love it. You guys want to “claim” the engineer is broken. Yet your suggestions for “fixing” it generally have nothing to do with actual broken aspects. And you berate anyone who disagrees. I repeatedly suggest talking about actual problems or imbalances. Such as how personal battering ram and warriors kick do the same thing, only PBR has a 45s recast and kick has a 20s recast.

At least the last 2 pages (thats 100 post) have listed no specific issues or how to fix them. The closest anyone came to that was making back and forth blended, non-specific warrior comparison. If you want to make a comparison, at least have the sense to compare reasonable and factually comparable skills and traits.

All of you who “claim” the engineer is so broken that your warding other players from playing it (and you cannot sat you are not, it is in the kitten thread tittle) have done nothing but bash, attack, and berate anyone that feels the class is capable and not broken. Underpowered does not equal broken.

GoZero.9708:

They’re not well designed. Simple as that.

I agree, when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it.

Its like they were so affraid of making them Op that they made them massively UP just to be safe. Now they are extremely slowly building them up one small change at a time so they do not over do it.

I do not think it is a matter of “protecting the engineer”. It is a matter of how people complain about aspects that are perfectly fine while ignoring the actual problem, or just flat out being ignorant of what the actual problems are. Such as projecting the idea that engineer is weak compared to another profession because of cripples. Or claiming players only use kits for support and never use them for long term play.

There are so many threads on grenade kits, bomb kits, and flame throwers as main weapon, that the comment about players only using kits for support is a joke.

If someone want to talk about real problems thats fine and reasonable, but claiming we have no cripples and that players do not use kits in long term play is so off base its not even funny. The FT build, grenade build, and bomb build discussions that have 100+ post of discussion in each of 10 threads on each of the kits is proof in itself how that is a ridiculously false blanket statement with zero supporting evidence.

Here is an education video that might help you.

Define viable? Underpowered does not equate to “not viable”.

Is viable thriving in sPvP ? is Viable 1 v 5 stomping all 5 in WvW ? 1v4 ? 1v3 ? 1v2 ?

I can show you tons of video proof of several different players doing this. Is it not viable when engineers solo 10 mobs in PvE? Solo veterans ? Champions?

We have plenty of criples too. EG #2, Box of nails X2 with kit refinement, Throw wrench, Personal battering ram.

Do I think engineer needs improvement, certainly, I have a good list of changes I personally feel need improving. But your overall abuse of the word “viable” is way off base, and your comparison to the mesmer doesn’t hold water.

As far as champs go, I have posted too many videos in which I solo champs to take you seriously on that count.

Only an engineer can die, then kill 4 people 3 seconds later with Big Ol’ Bomb

Nope, its just you. in PvP engi is very solid.

We are much better then the complainers on here make us out to be.

There are too many videos of engineers in PvP and WvW owning groups, if we were in that bad of a place, it wouldn’t matter how good or bad players are, it wouldn’t happen.

Comparing thief’s to engies on the level of pistols makes no sense. They work completely different between the two classes.

Your incorrect about mesmers damage compared to engies with pistols.

I have no clue what your talking about when you claim
" most kits are just used as support rather then actual long term play "

Turrets do need work though.

As far as us being in a bad place though, I think your off your rocker. But that is just my opinion. I see what I do in sPvP and WvW and scratch my head at some of the complaints, and I know a few engineers a lot better then I am.

Its not color when they are using builds others posted months ago, then naming it and pretending they just came up with some unique concept.

Anymras.5729:

I don’t assume that we are the only profession with bugs -

Then why do you constantly use it as a justification in your claim that we are underpowered? If your aware that every profession has bugs, why does having bugs make us underpowered?

Anymras.5729:

we have the only dedicated bug-list page on the wiki (fun fact: there used to be another, the other one belonging to the Ranger, wherein such things as ‘Ricochet hits neutral/yellow enemies’ was cited as a bug, but it has since disappeared). This might just mean that they’ve finally gotten around to fixing our bugs, or that for one reason or another nobody’s bothered to make a bug list page on the wiki for the Engineer.

Yes, I am well aware of the engineer wiki bug page. You know why. Because I started it, personally. I remember spending lots of time explaining to people that we did not have more or less bugs then any other class, but a lot of unknowledgable folks claimed it as a sign that Anet was aware that we have more bugs or something, which is not true. There are several wiki pages I created myself in the wiki. There is much much more that I update when changes occur. The wiki is not an encyclopedia. It is user posted information. Thus exposed to said users errors.

Did you think Anet maintains that? That they have a rep who does that as a job aspect? Did you think a magic wiki fairy does it?

The Official Guild Wars 2 Wiki is an online, public collaboration of information centering around ArenaNet’s upcoming online roleplaying game, Guild Wars 2. All information contained on this website is provided by the voluntary efforts of individual players and groups working to develop a comprehensive information resource for all Guild Wars fans to use and enjoy.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_Wiki:General_disclaimer

Anymras.5729:

We’re still afflicted with decreased damage (as a ‘hybrid tax’ for our ephemeral versatility), bugged traits and skills, an excessively hit-or-miss class mechanic, RNG skills, overly restrictive weapon choice (because we’re all supposed to use kits, probably), and when they get things working that they’ve meant to get working from the start, they nerf us for it.

On the bright side, I suppose, we’ve finally started getting bugfixes.

One thing you and others seem to assume when you state it like this, is that we are the only profession with bugs. This “oh our class has bugs” excuse is so unreasonable it makes it hard to take you seriously here. If you are so unknowledgable about the game as a whole that you think our profession carries the bulk of the bugs, then there is no help for you.

This video is post “nerf” and it looks like its pretty solid damage.

Jester.1236:

The only people i kinda felt sorry for was the Grenadiers, but that change is ancient history now. And im pretty sure i keep reading about a Grenade build thats one shotting people in PvP. So im going to pack up my tears for that lot as well

Yeah teldo just posted a video 6 days ago of him 1 shotting with grenade barrage.

So yeah, clearly we are the most underpowered class out there.

Seriously though, we do need more of our skills to be in line with comparitive skills other professions have.

Yeah, people have been been using are uniqueness of the heal kit to use “on heal” function such as centaur runes giving AoE swiftness on heal.

As many times as you have participated in engineer discussions, or debated what the engineer is or is not capable of, I am shocked you didn’t already know this . It has been mentioned in a good many discussions you participated in, and it has been like this since release.

It is very helpful, and there is a food ( I forget it off hand) that gives a 100% chance to remove a condition on heal, that I use consistently in WvW to add to my condition removal capability.

Anymras.5729:

I’m looking forward to when they finally fix the Engineer to bring it more into line with the other classes. If you’re good with the class now, and it really is possible to do some crazy-seeming things with it as it is, when they make it better, it’ll be hilarious.

it is not even as close to being out of line with other classes as you often try to paint them in my opinion. You have made comparisons to warriors in the past. Comparing rifles, and comparing shouts to elixirs. Yet most people who have played both through 80 learned that warriors are only OPish in PvE. You get them in WvW or sPvP, and any competent engineer is at even odds.

Awesome.6120:

There is no such thing as too much money. If anyone feels that this is actually a thing please feel free to send me whatever amount you need to help you sleep at night.

Absolutely agree.

I have to question the thought process of half of the poster on this thread who are questioning why players make excessive amounts of gold when they can. If any of you like, just send me a PM and I will gladly have my 10 yr old son reply with a basic explanation of economics and its relation to individual desires to compile wealth.

These are the same posters who get a reply on this ridiculous thread, then berate the Anet employee replying, only to complain on other threads, claiming they never reply on the forums.

I wouldn’t reply either if you berated me when I replied. Particularly to something that has little effect on game play and game experience.

So I was in Orr yesterday trying to get all 3 zones completed. I completed “cursed shore” firs because I was already there. Got a reward of some items, and exotic, and so on. Went over to malcor’s leap . Completed. Got my reward.

Went to the “straits of devistation”. Completed, but whats this, I got no rewards. Double checked the zone mad showing I had all of the POI, Vistas, and way points. I scoured the zone to make certain I hadn’t failed to discover an area.

So I sent in a ticket ( [Incident: 130130-001707] ) and had 4-5 back and forths of suggestion from CS. I zoned out and back in. I double checked the zone, I logged off then on. Nothing. I took screen shots at the CS request.

In the end, my final reply is :
*"*Thanks for contacting the Guild Wars Support Team.

While I would like to grant you the map completion chest, the Guild Wars Support Team is unable to replace map rewards in-game.

Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns."

Has this been an ongoing problem? Have others not been getting rewards? Why can we see that karka event players and what not can get rewards post problems, but others cannot? Honestly it is no great or significant loss. I do not ask for free stuff, but whenever reasonably possible, I do expect what I earned. If it is truly not possible for me to receive my rewards, I have no serious issues with that, and I will go on enjoying my game. But before I can do that, I want to exhaust all my option, and ask here on the forums if others have had this type of issue, if the got it resolved, and how?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqyUnqSbF1LJRoHJG0LGUh8KqQl/ogt0F;TgAA2UJZSSkkNJXSykGFA

I would use a build similar to this if I were using turrets at this time. With knights gear (knights gear is Power / Precession / Toughness)

I really like the “turrets explode when destroyed.” that does an AoE knockback and damage. Basically punishes enemies for destroying your turrets.

lightsheep.8673:

not the actual skills but the effects for them with Predator

Again, where did you here this. Sounds like you got trolled.

Ayestes.1273:

• Formula 409 should create a splash heal (1000 – 1600) on thrown elixirs.

I completely disagree. This trait is really powerful by being such a solid condition removal. A splash heal on top of that is way OP.

Entropy.4732:

Casia.4281:

Might stacking is not super useful, as the power going into the HORRIBLE scaling on FT means about nothing.

FT is a defensive kit really. As unintuitive as that sounds.

I really beg to differ on this one. Defensive kit??? That’s bookah logic.

I agree with Entropy here. You will be hard pressed to logically convince the general population that a might stacking AoE kit is a purely defensive kit.

I think he is just exaggerated a bit because he doesn’t know better. It looks like it is 3s or less. What really occurs OP, is that sometimes rendering is an issue. If you go invisible for 3 seconds, you can often act or make 2-4 attacks before you render back into view on another players screen. Effectively doubling your invis rate and giving you free shots.

That is why you see so many thiefs in WvW. Because weak players and johnny come lately’s us this to exploit it against you, because they generally lack the skill to kill you in a battle with another profession.

Kardiamond.6952:

You gotta watch out for culling, as thief and zerg abuse it.

I don’t use it in sPvP, but in WvW I use the Elixir S at 25% hp trait, since with culling you can die before even seeing the thief.

this is how sound advice here. Self regulating defense is superb as a safety mechanism. I love to use it with cloaking device, as well.

binidj.5734:

I was feeling pretty good about the damage I was putting out yesterday, then a Warrior unloaded 100-blades on the trash pack I was targeting and one-shotted it.

I love this class, it’s huge amounts of fun … but in terms of ability to damage or support it doesn’t compare favourably with other classes when played with the same level of skill.

Lmoa. Try to hundred blades me in WvW or PvP and your death is certain. As was already stated, some of you talk about another profession out of pure ignorance.

Sure in PvE warriors are OP a bit. But 100 blades roots you. If I dodge, it will miss me altogether, and you are rooted and at the mercy of my bombs.

binidj.5734:

Any melee Warrior worth their salt will already have you stunned and immobilised before they hit 100 blades … and that’s just off the top of my head without even thinking about it. Remember we are talking about like-for-like skill here, it doesn’t matter if you can beat someone who doesn’t play their profession as well as you play yours.

And any engineer worth his salt will use a stun breaker like rocket boots doing damage as they get away from you then riddle you with bullets as you root yourself and wave your sword around in the air, swatting flies for me and faning me like a palm leaf slave, then die embarrassingly.

Immobilize is a condition by the game mechanics, and is countered with condition removal. With most warriors, I can just swap to elixir gun, and my super elixir feom kit refinement counters the pathetic immobilize, then I tap #4 and leap back, watching the warrior, swat flies with his sword, while self rooted in my acid pit.

I Like builds that I can use in both PvE and WvW with few changes. I wear pure soldiers gear and jewelry at the moment. Rones of centuar to I can buff my buds in the world and WvW to get around.

http://gw2skills.net/editor
/?fcAQFAUl0pqb3zy3F1LJxoCfO0D8ff1KSRlt8nCyF;TkAA1CtomxMjYG7MuZkzMKA

I like to use Rifle #2 and EG #2 to cripple or net enemies, run in and glue them, spam a few bombs….drop BoB, then use either a rifle or EG #4 skill to launch out.

Ojimaru.8970:

80 with full healing gear? What level are you and which zone were you in? When was this data from?

The wiki is riddled with inaccuracies.

I am giving you numbers from accurate testing since monday.

Super elixir is healing me for 140 exactly (per tic not initial drop) with 0 healing stat. And bombs healed for 176 (to get to the trait you get a default 300 healing). Regen does 168

at 1388 healing super elixir healed for 279 (per tic not initial drop) and bombs healed for 285…….regen does 304

So a 10% ratio for healing stat doesn’t fit a reasonable cost/benefit value in my personal opinion.

JohnDied.3476:

One thing I’ve been wondering since this update is if healing turret is now better than med-kit when it comes to healer builds. What I mean is, now that heal-turret is fixed, does it provide more utility than medkit without runes? and if its regen outweighs the benefits of med-kit with runes of dwayna.

I like med kit because it removes a condition when I swap to it with “Bowl of Saffron-scented Poultry”

Its your choice to make. If I want AoEs I swap to bombs or grenades ( I always have one on)….I use elixir gun for buffs/debuffs/regen and condition removal x2 with kit refinement.

Sometimes I use straight healing bombs with a tanky melee build and us bombs and 2 CC skills like slick shoes and PBR.

Its all a sacrifice to benefit ratio based on the individual opinion.

I would rather have something that worked more like ride the lightening then a blink.

Casia.4281:

I tested in the mists flamethrower and toolkit.

Average weapon damage seems to be 920 still. 871-969 for kits.
And flamethrower 1 is still 1.5 skill coeff over 2.5s.
Toolkit 1 is still .8 skill coeff for smack/whack.

I see no evidence of any skill coeffs being adjusted. Nor raw weapon damage.

Based on what? Where do you get your numbers from? Tool tips were reading incorrect skill coeffecients.

Did your data mining show something different then the rest of the communities data?

Usagi.5627:

Assuming what you say is true.. then I’d say they lack in writing comprehension.
It does not say ‘adjusted certain skill coefficients’ and past patch notes have in fact said when they’ve done that.

I agree on the writing comprehension aspect.

They did not state the term “skill coeffecient”. They said bundles skills are now consistent With that of highest rarity weapons.

It is the player base that is making the false assumptions that the kits attack damage should be the same as exotic weapons. Anet never said it should. They just said bundles should now have consistant effectiveness comparitive to those stats.

I just started using a soldiers stats (power/vit/tough) build for a tanky/melee/bomb fun time. I found I get like 80 heal per bomb with all heal gear. I found I got alot more bang for my buck using something that negated more damage, or caused alot more damage.

That is just my take on it though.

I would like some stun breaker options for kits. As of now we only have condition removal via super elixir on elixir gun, and no stun breakers at all. Personal I would like to see Elixir Gun #4 get a stun breaker.

Anymras.5729:

Turrets also lack a stunbreaker, though a few of their skills can be used while stunned (Surprise Shot and Detonate Turret, for certain, though I don’t recall whether Overcharges can).

I kinda think they should add secondary effects to Turret toolbelts, like a stunbreaker on Shockwave (with a lowered cooldown) or Surprise Shot (with an increased cooldown).

Good point, never occurred to me. .Make shockwave a stun breaker, that sounds good to me.

I think that the base direct damage of explosive shot should be doubled.

I feel that we need A LOT more damage out of our shield skills.

Elixir C, in my opinion should be 30s not 40s.

Picking up turrets resets their CD to 0 except for healing turret

At least one kit needs a stun breaker. Kits are the only utility sets we have with no stun breaker on any of them. I would like to see Elixir Gun #4 skill get a stun breaker and Tool kit #2 a stun breaker.

No, kits attack damage is still 969 as it has always been. They balanced all of the skill coefficients based on that.

I think the best option, would be for them to make changes to how condition damage works as a whole.

Why should groups be penalized for having multiple condition damage builds in the same fight? Bleed caps are reached so easy, that players receive diminishing returns on their damage skill,s the more CD built players there are.

They need to simply remove the bleed cap and make adjustments for it, and allow for everyone poison and burn damage to tick individually.

Not to mention in so many places we are heavily penalized when 1/2 our damage does not take effect, such as keep doors, siege equipment being attacked, items in dungeons that must be destroyed. The path in AC that requires effectively fast destroying of mounds for example. That particularly nullifies our value to ridiculous levels.

Coldtart.4785:

Putrifiers are still there, and they still open with a pull. They just turned the entire map into empty space so you don’t have to think or look at your screen or even be awake to play in Orr.

Orr was always easy. Even when it was supposedly dead from being so ‘annoying’ (read: too hard) I always saw more people in Orr zones than midgame maps or frostgorge. Now it’s just as faceroll as any other zone.

I absolutely agree. We lost challenge in the high end zones to all of the complainers. Anything that requires team work, skilled play, or effort gets wined, complained, and cried about, until they water it down due to complaints of the vocal minority.

Personally I dislike all of this demand and expectation for information on every thing they add to the game. What ever happened to the good ole days in MMOs when the community played the game to learn for themselves?

Gallrvaghn.4921:

I do not mean to flame and I do not think it is okay to penalise engineer for not having an underwater version for flamethrower. You are putting words in my mouth. I was just trying to make a justification on why flamethrower has no underwater version. Do you get my point?

That is precisely my point. I feel that there is absolutely no justification for it.

I fail to see how I put words in your mouth. All i did was point out how you were trying to justify a very bad thing with the profession. Then you turn around and claim I am putting words in your mouth as you volunteer that you were just trying to justify it.

There is no justification for professions being directly and unnecessarily restricted in certain areas. As well, I find it hard to compare conjured weapons to kits when it comes to their value to their respective professions.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

However fire attunement skills for an ele seem necessary since it’s a fundamental mechanic of the class. And weapon skills =/= utility skills.

Elementalist have attunements. We have kits. Those are two comparable and unique mechanics to the two professions. I do not understand how you can justify why you think its okay to penalise engineer in this mechanic and defend elementalist in it.

Gurt.9368:

coglin.1496:

Gurt.9368:

Can you provide an attack stat with and without a kit equipped from before the patch as proof? I’m curious where you’re getting this from.

Sure. I can train a monkey to figure it out.

That won’t be necessary, I’ll accept what you provide, no monkeys involved.

C’com everyone loves monkeys.

In my opinion, the profession is much less important then the build is, when it comes to meshing together. As most any profession can fill various roles, depending on the build set up.