Guild Wars 2

Kyon.9735:

I believe I just said something about the boss skill Defiant. It says it protects the target from Crowd Control Skills yet those skills which are considered as Soft CC does not remove a stack from it.

And?

Daze doesn’t effect defiant either, and it is both considered a CC ability in the wiki page you linked and in official dev post. Again you think you know what CC means but you keep defining it incorrectly and inaccurately.

Defiant only removes “some” crowd control effect, not all. This is as defined by your eternally factual wiki. So I am unclear how it supports your arguement

Kyon.9735:

Now, where did we even get the idea of breaking down CC into Hard and Soft?
Players came to GW2 from many different games which has a Crowd Control System as well. In other games, CC means any skill that would hinder an enemy’s movement for a period of time but you have the ability to use skills to remove those effects, that would include cripple, immobilize, and chilled. Now in other games, CC means completely disabling your target without any counters, which includes stun and daze. Crowd Control Skills in GW2 are comparably shorter than most other games but have less cool down as well. Those things you called Soft CCs are easily removable by condition removal while those skills defined as Hard CCs can only be removed by Stun Breakers which have generally long cool down.

In EQ, EQII, and EQOA, CC is defined as a term used to describe when a player incapacitates an enemy or group of enemies from a fight in a way to allow everyone to focus on one target. . Nor does FFXI or FFXIV define CC as you claim. Your arguement about what CC means in most games, I wager is an assumption and an inaccurate one at that. By your definition from the wiki, Daze, which a dev post officially names as CC, would not be CC at all, because daze does not effect movement in any way, shape or form.

As well, I can very literally go into the wiki right this instant and change the definition of CC and divide it into two categories.

This would in turn, apparently make it fact. As you use wiki as a fact based source. Otherwise, all you have done is demonstrate what the individual that made the wiki post, opinion is of CC. I am still awaiting you to produce the slightest evidence of what Arenanet officially defines as CC. It is one thing to post a straw man arguement. But good lord man, you making a straw man army here. As well, what I refered to as soft CC was cripple. I stated it very clearly. By your definition here that hinders an enemies movement. So whats the problem with what I said in relation to “soft” cc?

Kyon.9735:

- You only have 1 condition removal which comes from Med Kit. It only removes 1 condition. It requires you to walk over it for it to be used, so it’s useless when you are immobilized.

Not with “packages stimulant”. You get to put them right on top of you and absorb them.

Asglarek.8976:

What are you going to report them for they are following the rules set forth by AN by using the voting mechanism how about you set up a petition to make the vote mechanism a super majority instead of wasting their time with frivolous reports.

Thats as foolish as saying profinity is okay if use it in a manner that it is not filtered.

The behavior the OP mentioned is a violation of the Rules of Conduct you and every players agrees to.

Specifically a violation of RoC Article 1.

Damion Steampunk.7824:

No one else willing to help?

No offense, but 6 of this exact thread pop up every day. Literally.

It might aid you to do a small search or just a visual one and read the advice everyone has given over and over every time this question is asked.

I say that because the lack of responses may be due to folks growing weary of going through the same question and thread multiple times daily.

Rainbow.3496:

Alot of the blabber of people getting “5 onyx lodestones” an hour or “making an easy 5 gold an hour” is complete trash.

Its really not right of you to spread misinformation such as this. I farm various lodestones and easily average 5 gold an hour between the various lodestones and other stacks.

Basically OP, folk such as Rainbow here like to make false claims, because they assume because they do not have the capability or patients for it, that no one else does.

There are somevery good sites out there that you can do a search for and they have walk throughs and videos that not only prove posters like Rainbow are full of it, but they teach you how to do it to.

CriSPeH.8512:

Nice patch Anet, Thank you
I think everyone that understands the patch correctly will agree that, if anything, it was an improvement.

Now make Kit Refinement work while you are in the air so I can barrage ppl in mid-flight.

I agree on both points.

Now if they can just work on condition damage so folks do not get diminishing returns on condition damage builds with multiple players on the same mob.

No thanks, if you chose not to believe me, all the other posters, and other threads, thats okay. Go to youtube and look at bomb build videos from last week or what not as they hover their mouse over the skills and as they use them in action. Its all there documented on video. Then look at yours.

If you feel thats inaccurate, and your experiences are different, that is fine too. It works for me, and I am happy with the change. If your unhappy with it, thats fine too.

Its a good change, and very literally what a very very many posters have specifically asked for, including myself. We got specifically what we asked for, so I am having trouble justifying your complaint.

I am still confused by the title and the OP. I failed to see how grenades specifically were “broken” pre-patch.

fishybill.6908:

Go to the Heart of the Mists, select rifle and grenade kit, with the character tab open switch from rifle to grenades and the power drops?

That is because the base attack damage on weapons is different then base damage on kits. The stats from weapons reflect to kits, not base damage. In the mist, weapons have no stats. Just a base damage.

They then adjusted certain specific skills damage co-effecients per kit to bring kits in line with what they feel is its equivalent value in comparison to the highest weapon avaliable at your level.

I haven’t tested any changes to the FT conal damage. I will have to test that and see how it feels to me in an hour or two when I am in game again. If it is working better, I may use it a little more myself.

Well I and many others disagree. There are plenty of post clarifying higher damage that disagree with you as well.

Not to mention several folks posting screen shots of the damage logs to support it.

Gurt.9368:

YourOwnFear is claiming that damage hasn’t increased at all. My damage has increased notably. Regardless of what Anet changed, damage has gone up.

Yes. I stated that already. I even made a thread on it. Damage was adjusted with skill damage coefficient changes made to individual kits on skills and not by overall kit damage change. They stated that they made kit skills damage adjustments. It is further discussed if you look through the dev tracker.

Gurt.9368:

I’m not claiming it does. I am seeing a very nice, very welcome damage increase.

Yes, as I said, they adjusted individual skill damage

Gurt.9368:

Can you provide an attack stat with and without a kit equipped from before the patch as proof? I’m curious where you’re getting this from.

Sure. I can train a monkey to figure it out. Other then the fact that I have posted every engineer skills damage coeffecient before, and having my own spread sheet of it. Go o in game at look at it now. My Bomb kit #1 skill damage coefficient is now in game, higher then all of the build editors. And there are a plethora of videos with the damage in them

Gurt.9368:

I never said or implied otherwise.

I never said you did.

Lets clear something up that seems to be confusing everyone.

they said
“base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player”

They did not say
“base damage that will now be equal with the highest weapon equipped by the player”

Thus they adjusted certain skill coefficients on certain kits to get them to that point.

Anyone assuming the weapons damage stat was intended to roll over from your equipped weapon, made a false assumption and lacked in reading comprehension when reading the patch notes.

So please drop all the raging and QQing about how they didn’t deliver or that it is a bug.

Sounds too warrior bannerish to me. Why does everyone try to make our rifles replicas of warriors? Now trying to make our turrets like banners? they really serve different functions.

I think if we are looking for more functionality out of turrets, that this is a horribly wrong way to go about it.

what do you mean by “bar” in each of those questions?

Gurt.9368:

YourOwnFear.2743:

There was no kit damage increase. The only increase in damage you will see is from the 100 or so extra power your getting from your weapon now. The exotic lvl weapon damage for kits never happened. My bombs do the exact same damage now as they did pre patch. The only noticeable difference would be that you dont have to swap out of kits to get the full effect of your heal if you have weapons with healing power on it.

I’m seeing an increase of about 100 to 150 damage on my bomb kit in PvE. I know that the power on my weapon can’t account for that much of an increase. Do you primarily play PvP?

They never changed kits “attack damage” and the notes never suggested they did.

it says
“Bundles from player skills (engineer kits, elementalist conjured weapons, warrior banners) now have base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player.”

It does not state that any individual players will have their attack damage scale to that of the highest weapon damage the player has in his arsenal.

It states that we have damage consistent with what is available to us as a whole. To do that, they did not change kit attack damage, they simply adjusted skill coefficients on several kits skills to give the damage equivalent of the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player.

base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player does not translate in any way to suggest that you get the attack power of your equipped weapon, while using the kit.

Veritas.6071:

I only had to watch 2 seconds to come back and post this. I don’t think he is referring to rolling around with the LoD hammer train. That is a situation few few few GW2 players will ever have the opportunity to experience. Those warriors are also backed up by their guildies. They aren’t rolling around unsupported.

Complaining about your effectiveness while rolling around unsupported is a crap excuse anyway. That can and will make any class of minimal value in WvW.

Wow. It is almost embarrassing how clueless some of the warrior mains are.

I do not main a warrior, I main an engineer, but I have all professions at 80 and geared up. with some of the dysfunction and bugs plaguing other professions, warriors have it golden, yet cry like I see on this thread?

If some of you that are complaining, got out and leveled other professions, to see what it is like for the other classes, you would be ashamed of yourselves for complaining about this profession.

No one I see, is against he wiki at all. Although, I am against links to wiki pages that lack information, are inaccurate, or incomplete, when using said page as proclaimed facts, to support a position.

Personally, I do not think it says much for anyone who declares folks who dislike inaccuracies as a snob for it. That seems pretty short sighted to me.

So thats why my account keeps wiping everytime I met a thief in WvW. Here I was thinking my computer was just crashing.

Gurt.9368:

The path notes said there was supposed to be a change to the weapon damage

Yes, and as I posted before, this did not happen. It was easily compared by looking at your stats page while swapping between weapon and kits, while watching your stats.

Gurt.9368:

That said, my bombs are kicking kitten harder than ever now.

Yes, they raised some damage coefficients. At least that is the rumor.

Define viable in this case? Everyone throws viable around the forums like this and it is a horrible term to use in cases like this because whats is considered “viable” from person to person varies greatly.

Yes, I think building for more then one purpose or focus is extremely.

Classic.9174:

I appreciate the idea of versatility, but isn’t that most valuable when you can swap between two roles on the fly? Is that viable for Engineers? Because being able to do anything at an average level isn’t that beneficial if you still have to specialize to perform that role.

You mean similar to how you can swap to elixir gun and fill a buffer/debuffer and secondary healer role? swap to grenade kit and be full AoE damage?

Vekthor.8914:

Flamethrowers don’t work underwater (for reasons not difficult to deduce)

What is this easily deducted reason?

I am going to deeply how your not going to use some physics or chemistry to explain the rules of a fantasy game in which I can use a bomb to become invisible, use a rifle to launch myself. Throw grenades further then my rifle can shoot, rain a meteor shower down with a staff, shoot three rows of flames from my daggers, ect.

Now please, what is your justification as to why we should lose access to this or any skill in the water or any other environment?

Unless the kits (weapon damage) have changed recently, the weapons damage of each kit has basically been common knowledge since release. Plenty of threads on it.

Although it is good to see many risen died in your studies my friend.

Kyon.9735:

First of all, what are Crowd Control Skills?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crowd_control

So going by that, you have:

Rifle – Overcharged Shot
Bomb Kit – Big ’Ol Bomb
Supply Crate – Stun effect from Drop

Based on the wiki you now have 2 kits and 3 CCs. You still have 1 slot which will give you one more CC which only sums up to 4 no matter what you do.

How cute. I always love how so naive and innocent this younger generation is to misunderstand what a wiki is, to a point that they confuse it with something as fact based as an encyclopedia. Knowledgeable individuals will tell you time and time again that the wiki is riddled with inaccuracies, misinformation, and in some cases, information that is not even close.

Let me assist in educating you my friend.

CC skills are skills that control enemies actions. People like to call cripple for example, soft crowd control. While they like to call disabling skills as hard CC. Here is an inaccuracy for example. You linked a page to Crowd control, yet the definition there list “stability” as the protection against CC effects. While still the list of crowd control effects listed on the stability page are more then what was on the page you listed.

Thus by your own reference of referring to the wiki as “fact” as you claimed, you yourself are incorrect.

Wiki – (as defined by marriam-webster) Is a site that allows visitors to make contributions, changes, or corrections. If you think that is what should be used as a reliable source of “fact”, you are crippling your sorely mistaken my friend.

By the way, kind of sternly hypocritical to to make fool claims like

Dude runs with a 30/30/30/30/30 build

Then cry wolf when sarcasm is used right back at you.

@kyon
Where did he had 5 cc abilities that were utility skills? Rifle has 2 alone. Bomb kit gives immobilize with glue bomb and aoe knock back with Bob. That’s 4 with only counting 1 utility skill. Add in the aoe stun from supply crate, and that 5. Slow from freeze grenade is 6. Any number of 3rd utilities will give a 7th skill. 8 if you make it tool kit with a crippling wrench and box of nails, of personal battering ram and cripple from LPBR. So yeah clearly he is exaggerating by using just 5 CCS in as build.

It is no stronger then most of the other professions damage. I think requesting a Nerf is ridiculous.

Dante.1508:

I can post pics of my Flamethrower between all the misses i still do max 1500 – 1700 on a crit.. damage exactly what i did before the patch, and yes when i equip a kit my stats DROP around 250…

My elixir gun does a pitiful 350 -400 on a crit..

the patch note state it goes to the weapon stats which isn’t the case at all…

Actually if very factually is the case. Your just plain wrong. You get the weapons stats. You do not get the weapons damage . As we have stated repeatedly throughout the thread.

Why should it stay active. It very specifically says in the tool tip “while holding a shield”. Your not holding a shield if your holing a kit. Although I do agree it should change. We really should not be punished for using our kits, in my opinion.

How would a kit effect the shield skills cool down, you cannot cast the ability while holding a bundle.

Terrahero.9358:

Choops.3710:

TL;DR, 100 ‘Nades is most likely OP, but not for the insta gib on 20 sec CD. *The things we’re still able to do while waiting for that 20 seconds to come back up is more than any other ‘1 trick pony’ has going for it.*

This is simply not true.

For example.

A d/d Ele can build and spec to get 1shot attacks. 18k+ GUARENTEED crit. And besides that, he still has a lot going for himself. Because hey, he’s an Elementalist.

Well yes. But to have a guaranteed crit they either have to build for a buffed with fury 100% crit damage or Use a utility slot for it.

Good luck doing much in PvP or WvW with a glass cannon D/D build like that though. But id someone invest a full utility slot for a guaranteed crit, then they earned it if you ask me.

The wiki is information added by anyone. The engineer forums alone has a ridiculous amount of post of folks claiming there opinions as fact against real and actual facts available. When those folks update the wiki in a nature like this, it hurts everyone. The wiki is riddled with inaccuracy due to this.

commanderrab.5139:

That’s a sexy 7k thwack.

That is clearly not possible. because they say so.

Mif.3471:

While I think that most of the “huge buff” people are experiencing is a placebo

Yet people are posting screen shots with numbers in them. Hmm, someone is full of it.

Do a quick search. There are threads with almost the exact same titles as this one, and several discussion on this already. As well as a stickied thread of builds in bold red letters at the top of the sub forums.

you can easily see the numbers effected with a condition build. With P/P or P/S you gain 90+90 condition damage, and it shows.

yeah but out “attack” stat still goes down. Sometimes that is the important one. Otherwise, condition damage is handy to have roll over for condition based engies though. As well as various other stats.

I would have really liked to see the “damage” rating of weapons carry over as well.

yeah but out “attack” stat still goes down. Sometimes that is the important one. Otherwise, condition damage is handy to have roll over for condition based engies though. As well as various other stats.

I would have really liked to see the “damage” rating of weapons carry over as well.

tigirius.9014:

This game has a general interrupt bug design imo and it’s not just the healing skills.

What did the reply say when you put the bug report in on this issue?

ManCaptain.3154:

Weakness is a crap debuff. It doesn’t work on crits, and since every glass cannon has 50% crit chance, 70% crit chance with fury, it’s actually half as good as it would imply.
I’d rather switch to my nade kit and do some more damage and debuff them with blind and chilled than autoattack.

So even if the unlikely case that everyone has 50% crit chance, that is still 50% of 50% of their damage. That is a lot of damage mitigation. You also seem to seem to think this discussion only refers to PvP by they way you make your references.

It also debuffs endurance regen by 50%, reducing damage avoidance.

Call it “crap” if you like. Many of us appreciate the lowering of incoming damage by a solid percentage combined with direct damage, a 4s bleed, and a projectile finisher in one skill.

I answered your question directly in my first sentance. Then explained how the manner in which you asked it makes it complicated to answer.

Sorry for trying to help. No need to berate me for it.

Isslair.4908:

If you look at the dungeons forum section, you’ll see a dev who actually talks to players and explains his choices about dungeon design.

So developers do communicate with players. Just not with engineer playerbase.

Kinda poitless thread =\

Kinda pointless post =\

The dungeon devs are not the same as the professional balancing devs. Your comparing apples to oranges.

Isslair.4908:

If you look at the dungeons forum section, you’ll see a dev who actually talks to players and explains his choices about dungeon design.

So developers do communicate with players. Just not with engineer playerbase.

Kinda poitless thread =\

And here is the problem. The OP very specifically pointed out it is reasonably comparative in all of the profession threads. He even post evidence. Yet unreasonable people still make post like this, falsely exclaiming the engineer profession is unique in this issue.

I would say it favors condition damage much more now. It is hard to answer your question though, when you use the word “viable”. What is considered “viable” is ridiculously subjective. In my opinion, folks do a great disservice to themselves when using such subjective language when trying to get specific answers.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Mortar Increase range to 1,800. Increase recharge of Rocket skill to 60. Make the rocket skill fire one large bomb, instead of five small ones. Have it knockback foes. Remove line of sight requirement. Increase recharge to 180 seconds.

I am not sure about the specifics, but I think this idea heads somewhat in the right direction.

NevirSayDie.6235:

coglin.1496:

Perhaps it is latency due to culling issues, that the engineers simply are not rendering in the form elixir s creates. Thus the effect occurs, but the graphics of it do not.

Elixir S gives the “invulnerability” message. Anyone seeing “immune” on an engineer is seeing automated response kicking in.

Yeah I misread that then. Your absolutely right. It has to be automated response.

Sporadicus.1028:

• Skill #1Tranquilizer Dart has good range but needs more power behind its bleeding effects. The duration and rate of fire isn’t good for one bleed stack. Add another stack (or even two more if traited) to the bleed and it might work.

Weakness is a very powerful debuff. You cannot reasonable add alot of damage without throwing balance off. Secondly, it has better bleed duration then explosive shot. In my opinion, I can agree with evaluating traits for it though.

Sporadicus.1028:

• Skill #2 Elixir F is a good concept, slowing enemies while speeding you up. Problem? It’s SLOW and the bounce doesn’t move far enough. The travel time on this is 2 seconds at long range, which means a person escaping can easily move beyond the range and cancel the attack. My advice: Reduce the travel time and increase the bounce effect range.

I think the range is fine. When I first read this, I thought you were insane. The skill debuffs cripple in an AoE and buffs swiftness in an AoE, I am sorry, but this much utility, while still doing damage is alot.

Sporadicus.1028:

Skill #3 is the most baffling of skills. I understand the idea behind it: A mixed support/attack skill. I’ll address them as two different skills. Support : As a support skill, it’s alright. . . .except that it suffers the same aiming problem as FT’s Flame Jet. Attack : As an attack . . . .WTF, mate? Do you REALLY want a keep away weapon to have a skill that you have to be ON TOP OF THE ENEMY for it to be effective?!? Skill #3 solution? Make it a long range blast. Let it hit one person and cause a long duration poison application (or remove a condition) to all within a certain distance of that person.

Agreed, the aiming issues direly need a solution, and compared to the range of the other skills, it doesn’t fit in my opinion as well.

• Skill #4 Acid Pool actually works for what it does, and does better than Overcharged Shot in the keep away game. It’s a keep away that punishes melee users. But I think it could add something else. Give the acid pool a 1-2 second immobilize effect.

The ability is great, asking for an immobilize as well is irrationally gready. This is why it is hard to take a vast majority of complaining or improvement discussion seriously in my opinion. You guys always want to fix what isn’t broken instead of working on what really is. Just my opinion.

Sporadicus.1028:

• Skill #5 Super Elixir : This one is useful, but it needs more in my eyes. The need to stay in a (rather large) circle to get small ticks of healing more or less makes this fairly difficult to use. I think it should be an up front heal (with the single condition removal) that leaves a Light Field behind.

Needs more ? Light field, AoE condition removal, AoE heal, and you claim it needs more? This is what makes it hard to portray to the devs what they need to fix. Posters even complain about our really good abilities.

I get it, it is a rant. Some of your issues are reasonable to me. But a lot of your complaints are not even reasonable in my opinion.

Perhaps it is latency due to culling issues, that the engineers simply are not rendering in the form elixir s creates. Thus the effect occurs, but the graphics of it do not.

NevirSayDie.6235:

. No, the engineer should not/is not going to be “re-worked” from the ground up. No, that does not mean that the profession is fine the way it is, and it certainly doesn’t mean that those who have succeeded at engineering should belittle the suggestions of those who haven’t.

I couldn’t agree more. This was why I was stating repeatedly that folks should stop making threads attempting to complain about almost every skill, or lobby to change almost every skill, and to focus on what actually needs fixing. Part of the problem is folks ideology being inaccurate, all the while they assume it is fact. Point in case, the rifle. You consistently read that the warriors rifle does so much more damage then the engineers, when the engineer rifle damage coefficients are in fact higher on all but I think maybe one skill. Posters have a bad habit of assuming they know what other professions can or cannot due based purely off what they have see or hear, but do not experience. It wasn’t until I had leveled all 8 professions and spent time on them, that I fully realized this myself.

Creld.8702:

So, the standing joke around here seems to be anet has forgotten engineers exist. While this is certainly false, I did think it would be interesting to compare the various classes forums in terms of most recent admin post.

Yup.

It doesn’t stop there either. Several here on the engineer forums like to make claims based on how they feel, with no actual facts.

They are not communicating any better or worse with us then the other professions, but several here love to falsely claim otherwise.

No skills are ideal in sPvP / WvW / PvE. In PvP they do not hve a choice because deployable turrets actually works on all turrets there, and they have to come near them to take points. In WvW they have to come near them to get to you in some cases. In others they have to come near them to take a camp or keep. In PvE it is a non-issue, they go near your turrets.

As a general rule, I can agree that they are not ideal though.

If your character is not facing them, he cannot shoot them. Been that way for some time now.