Guild Wars 2

KirinDave.6451:

100% swiftness uptime is not high mobility. And there is more to “mobility” than your sprinting speed. A lot of very good abilities force us to stay in one local otherwise we eat a bad cooldown.

Your not even making sense. To sit here and openly claim that 33% speed boost avaliable 100% of the time is “not” mobility? How can you make such illogical comments and expect to be taken seriously?

“A lot” of our abilities require use to stay in “one local”? Your just making stuff up now.

As far as casia’s post. See other post pointing out haw nearly every post casia makes omits numbers almost every time, uses inaccurate numbers, or actually does the math incorrectly.

What does someone making a guide for other classes have to do with anything? Engineer has similar guides.

KirinDave.6451:

will these things actually make the engineer a competitive and well-rounded class?

Sorry, but the engineer already is competitive. It is very arguably the most well rounded class, based on its various diversity.

low mobility in a mobility dominated game

We have 100% swiftness up time through multiple ways. Are you sure you played an engineer before making this thread?

melee-range focus with few options non-turtle options for high durability

We can use 1050 ranged pistols with a shield that has 900 rang attacks. So I am not sure why your making these inaccurate statements.

KirinDave.6451:

But let’s talk long term here: what will actually bring Engineers inline to be as all-around useful as Warriors, Guardians, Theives and Elementalists?

Perhaps developing a concept of the engineer class itself, would help with this more then anything. A vast majority of how you described the class demonstrates a very lacking understanding of the class as a whole.

They made a sub forum dedicated to the entire winters day project. Devs have answered this question there. Did you look around or do a search at all before making this thread? I have to ask because there are already threads here with similar or exact titles. Seems odd to make a thread to ask this question “after” it has already been answered.

Did you do a search on this? there a very many threads with the exact same name as this that already have hearty discussions on this topic ongoing. Many of those have posters that include solid math to support the benefits of both. No need to try to start a new discussion with so many other recent ones that are ongoing if you ask me.

Bradesco.9621:

Orr is dead, most group/temple events can not be done.

I just wonder why didn’t you realise it yet.

Where is our “downflow” system?

So slow development….

Orr is not dead on my server. Unless you frequent all servers, which I suspect you haven’t, you have no business making such false blanket claims.

Caelib.2497:

Why? It is an accurate representation of the state of the zone. If you don’t agree and it bothers you that much, then why did you click on the thread and read it?

Because it is factually not true. We constantly have folks doing events in orr on my server and opening the temples. Just because you “feel” it is dead on your server doesn’t mean it is factually accurate across the board.

I cannot say I blame him or anyone else who speaks out against folks that make inaccurate blanket statements and falsly attempts to represent the opinion of everyone.

tigirius.9014:

Would love a kit that I could equip that could create the AOE fields of every class in the game.

I am not sure what this even means.

Halcyon.7352:

Not sure what is meant by “Engineer only gear.” I assume you’re not talking about the runes.

Warriors on the other hand…

I’ve no idea how a 128% crit rate makes any sense. Let alone the 135% I was able to achieve later.

Low level scaling with stats and gear is a bit wonky, to say the least. And naturally, at 80, my crit rate would be no where near this… But still, take it for what it is.

Kamahl.3621:

They’re lying. Highest you can really get is ~55% with 300 in firearms, all berserker/precision gear, etc. That’d be 75% with fury, 85% when they’re below 50% health, and 95% if Scope worked (which it doesn’t). So, optimally, if traits worked – when you stand still and the target is below 50% health, with fury up, you could have a 95% critical hit rate.

Hmm. They are lying? Yet someone posted a picture of it even higher then that?

Appears that someone jumped the gun when calling someone a liar.

I agree. It is a problem “in game”, that effect the damage comparison at times. I am not certain if it actually registers to the servers as we see it though.

I see no need for it personally. We simply need all the skills we have now to work underwater in some form or fashion. Essentially, all of our kits would then be “underwater kits”.

Osskil.1029:

I am sure this topic has been brought up countless times before,

If you know this, then why are you do bumping this thread?

Bumping this – again please feel free to weigh in as to whether or not you agree engineers should have more melee capabilities.

Knowing there are a million threads on this, why did you start a new one? Add to one of the old ones.

Guild Wars 2 Forum Code of Conduct

) Read the forum before asking a question. There’s a good chance your question has already been answered.

) Use the search function before posting. This will focus the discussion and facilitate a response.

) Avoid frivolous and duplicate postings.

Not sure where your coming from. even 3400 seems pretty solid to me. I mean it is an AoE that stacks bleeds in an AoE. What your asking for is unreasonable.

Zero Angel.9715:

The extra pistol range is quite noticeable and puts the pistol almost on par with the extended grenade range

No. Just no.

Extended pistol range is 1050

Extended grenade range is 1500

Thats a near 50% diference.

Casia.4281:

Engineers can’t stack confuse enough to make a cond/confuse viable.

This is one of those times that you demonstrate you d onto comprehend what “viable” means.

Casia.4281:

High toughness is NOT countering high damage

This comment is just inaccurate. It demonstrates again that you will intentional post misinformation or apparently post comments that conflict with plain old common sense.
For every 1 toughness, incoming damage per attack, gets reduced by about approximately .305

I have done several post with real math on all of our attacks, vitality compared to toughness as defensive value. The difference is, I didn’t “simplify” or “modify” as you do to get to where I want to go.

Toss Elixir R is a ranged AoE that revives downed allies. To my knowledge that is the general focus of its use, folks do not general focus on using it for condition removal.

They have cultural armor and weapons. The have cultural skills. In my opinion there is no need to design new skill skins and lock people out of some of them because they play a different race.

runeblade.7514:

If I could change medkit, I would remove the extra “drop bandage” skill and make the main “drop bandage” drop three bandages instead of one.Then put an auto-attack in it. It is that bad. The three drop bandages skill is really not smooth.

Since I am stuck with a clunky heal kit. Any tips on how to use it?

I see no need to destroy a spectacular kit, because you would have it suit your needs while pitching the needs of those using it, right out the window. No thank you.

It is a great kit, I personally feel it is the best kit.

Pikachu.7950:

Are kits considered bundles? The Superior Rune of Engineer will only apply 5% extra damage to bundles.

Yes.

Again you use fail math Casia. For example you list explosive shot or static discharge. In both cases, you give them credit for condition damage and condition damage only. Guess what? at 100 condition damage or 1500 condition damage, my explosive shot still does a couple hundred direct damage. You always seem to conveniently ignore that fact.

Also, I believe “pve confuse is 130+.15*cond=313/stack” is inaccurate to my knowledge those numbers are not accurate it actual in game numbers. Yet you admit that, and still use it to claim you know for a fact how this damage compares to other damage. How do you make that claim knowing your numbers are wrong?

Casia.4281:

So at base, 207 bleed damage over 2s, and 203 average direct damage aoe with 1 hit.

I do not agree with this number either. More bleed damage then that in game. As well, In actuality My builds ALWAYS has more then 2 stacks of bleeds up. Usually more like 4-6. Again you make an effort to allow your ahem “math” ahem. To be inaccurate to reality.

So in all those bloated post, what are you exclaiming my average explosive shot to be? I see all of your inaccurate formulas, and alot of your inaccurate conclusion, as well as your accurate ones, and you never just make any actual statements as to what the damage is for a particular skill.

You throw all these numbers around, but I do not see what your suggesting explosive shots damage is? Figuring crit chance, crit damage, basic direct damage, and condition damage together, what exacly are you suggesting is my explosive shot damage?

So at base, 207 bleed damage over 2s, and 203 average direct damage aoe with 1 hit.

Casia.4281:

Adding the bonus condition damage would just make the direct damage dps values even higher.

I’ve never said cond should be ignored. Simply that it should not be the focus. Direct scales much better. Cond damage is a nice bonus on top of it.
30 firearms. Might stacking with juggernaut, or hgh. Gives you plenty of cond. more then you need. The focus should always be on power.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

I was specifically pointing out that you have a horrible habit of neglecting to add in the direct damage of attacks from condition damage builds into the specific attacks over all damage.. So why your ignoring that and speaking directly to adding condition damage into direct damage builds is beyond me.

As well, you declare that condition do not compare to direct damage. That is an incorrect statement you have mad repeatedly. This is one of the repeated cases in which you cherry pick a specific direct damage build and skill set and compare it to your cherry picked condition damage build, in which you stack the deck in your build choice and then make a broad blanket statement that is not fully true.

As in your last post, with the pistol #1 skill you mention damage in terms of basic single target bleed damage, and that damage only, when it is very ordinary for conditions build to have burn chance on crits, you neglect that fact that rune of earth will put bleeds on multiple targets (as does sharpshooter), and you absolutely neglect to accredit the direct damage that the pistol #1 skill inflicts. You mention coated bullets that demonstrates, naked, and with no other traits invested yet, the character in that scenario has 18% crit chance, which you conveniently never figure the pistol #1 skill either.

Casia.4281:

I just get tired of repeating myself, and doing the math over and over and over. so I simplify it sometimes.

It is not called “simplifying”, when you only simplify the side of the equation that benefits your argument, yet take the time to complicate the side of the equation that supports your argument. It is called cheating, and it is never actually “math” as you repeatedly claim, when you do not actually do the math, because you stack the deck by simplifying it in a manner that benefits your point at the time.

Casia.4281:

math doesnt lie.

what cond CAN do, is build for defense, and still deal damage. as its scales with 2 stats only. cond and cond duration. only one of which is a prime stat. (aka cond duration doesn’t come on gear/trinkets.)

But direct damage has higher coefficients. scales with weapon damage, including exotics, which itemized past base level. Scales with vul, scales with traits that provide +damage %, discharge, retaliation, etc all scale with power.

Math doesn’t lie indeed. The problem here though, is you have a horrible habit of having posted inaccurate math. Certainly a glass cannon crit damage build will out damage any condition damage build, but the common pow/tough/vit build will not out damage the a condition damage build. You in particular have had a nasty habit of making condition damage comparisons to the more class canon like builds in general, otherwise you have a horrible habit of calculating condition damage, all the while leaving the direct damage of attacks in a condition damage build out.

For example I have seen you compare pistol #1 skill to rifle #1 skill, while neglecting damage from rune of earth (which is extremely commonly used in pistols) and the actual direct damage of the pistols attack, by just calculating the bleed damage and calling it a day. Then compare them. You have to figure in the total condition damage added to the skills base direct damage with crit chance damage divided into that. You always fail to leave portions of that out.

You cannon cherry pick a condition build and compare it to your cherry picked direct damage build, calculate it with lacking mathematics, then make the claims you are making here.

First and fore most, experiment. It reads to me, that possibly your biggest problem is that you went from sPvP to PvE and possibly some WvW. Your playing every day with lesser stats do to level, gear available at your level, less trait points then your used to, different stats due to weapons stats mattering now, and an all together different style of play.

I could be wrong, but I suspect making the adjustment alone, accounts for much of the displacement you feel. You probably spent a lot of time in sPvP and the mist , adjusting your build regularly until you found the builds you prefer. Essentially you will be doing so again until you are 80 and have all the trait points available to you.

I like sigil of earth on my pistol and sigil of fire on my shield.

Duhh.4102:

I have played around with my build and utility skills an awful lot, but I never find myself using things like the Personal Battering Ram, the Slick Shoes, the Rocket Boots, or the Utility Goggles. I haven’t really been able to come up with a good use for these skills yet, so I am wondering if and how anyone else uses these skills. Also while we are at it, is the Thumper Turret really as bad as I think it is, or does it have its uses? Thoughts?

When you posted this, did you even know what most of these skills did?

No offense, but I really have to scratch my head at anyone who cannot find a use for stun breakers. Rocket boots and goggles are both stun breakers. How do you not have a use for a skill that debuffs multiple stacks of vulnerability? How do you not have use for blast finishers?

Battering ram and slick shoes are both great control for opponents that get in melee range. The PBR tool belt skill id a nice ranged attack with a cripple. Again, scratching my head at how you cannot find use for that.

How is flame thrower “limited to PVE” ?

Honestly, I feel our #1 skill is fine. It does very good damage in my experience, compared to other classes #1 skills.

1. needs to be a skill that interrupts opponents, period.

Everyone on this topic pver complicates this whole down skill thing. All the need to do in cut the #3 recast in half, and viola, we are in great shape.

Uhg. Not this thread again. They are so common, I bet you didn’t even try to see if one already existed.

I do not like the torch as a weapon in general.

Duel shields sound cumbersome and in my eyes, would look awkward. Tome, the concept seems clumsy and just an all around bad idea. Hammer, eh.

Mostly what I would personally like to see for the engineer, is kits to have a stun breakers. Not a stun breaker for each kit. Just a stun breaker on one kit, and a condition removal on one of the gadgets. As I see it, elixirs get stun breakers and condition removal, while kits only have condition removal, and that is via the elixir gun. Kits get stun breakers but no condition removal.

If a players focus’s on traits that favor kits, they are still forces to get a gadget or elixir to break stuns. If a player focus’s on traits for gadgets because that is how they wish to play, they must still take a kit (elixir gun) or an elixir for condition cleansing. If a player desires to to gave a turret build, the condition removal is on a long recast, stationary, and they have no stun breaker option either.

Not all, but a good deal of utility sets in other classes that are effected by the same traits, offer both stun breakers and cleansing. Much like our elixir utility set works. It seems very unequal, unfair, and unbalanced, that I can get all traits for elixirs and have stun breakers and cleansing, but I do not have that option with any of our other utility sets.

kits have there own damage stats.

Until they fix it, sigils do not effect kits at all

I would think grenades, FT, elixir gun would work well together or grenades, bombs, and elixir gun.

We have a stickied tread of builds at the top.

Define viable? I have to ask that because it is slung around these forums like some magic buzz word, and used creatively to the point that it has entirely varying definitions from poster to poster here.

That being said, there is a build out there, for every kit, that in my opinion, is effective and efficient enough to play well and be enjoyed.

Yeah, I see your point. It really appears to have a PvE favored focus and a weakness in WvW.

Here is a link to all the armor stats and where to get them. Happy hunting.

http://www.gw2armor.com/

lepri.6504:

I know kits are meant to be used with main weapons. But if someone is using kits a lot more than weapons, whats the point of getting a sigil.

Sigils are easy to acquire. Regardless of ow often they use their main weapon, they are worth it. I do not care what anyone says to try to justify it, telling someone not to worry about sigils is bad advice, no matter ow you slice it.

kagemitsu.3657:

Accelerant Packed Turrets is a worthless trait imo, as the explosion is so small that you have to seriously be lucky if you manage to knock someone down.

I could be wrong but I think you miss then point. I would understand that the point of the trait is to damage and knock back those who melee attack turrets, making then pay for it.

If you really believe that comparing weapons #1 skills and forgetting class mechanic as well is any other reasonable factors, you will never get it.

Ever heard of jobs that do comparisons or studies? Well we use things such as sample size for example. Your system of discovery is fundamentally flawed

ferdtheman.3247:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

wolf.7514:

The trait “evasive powder keg” doesnt work, you create a bomb when you dodge but deals no damages.

Considering I use it all the time and it most certainly deals damage, you might want to give that some testing.

Seems to be different from player to player. My charr engineer doesn’t even drop a bomb when I dodge. No damage, no visuals, no sound, nothing.

You have to be in active combat…..did you take that into consideration in your testing?

kylia.4813:

Leave it as it is, its powerful if used right and stacking duration will make it alot less potent.

this^

plasmacutter.2709:

As of last patch mesmers are broken.

Their traits and overall survivability are tied heavily to the presence of clones and phantasms which now cannot be summoned if your primary target blocks, dodges, or goes invulnerable, or if you happen to be blinded.

Wa, wait, what? your claiming because your abilities do not work when your primary target blocks, dodges, or goes invulnerable, or if you happen to be blinded, that your mesmers are broken? I have heard of misinformation before but that is just a stupid thing to say. Because that is game design and it is how all classes work, stop trying to claim it broke mesmer, its embarrassing.

After reading some of your post, I noticed something. You keep posting your personal complaints and opinions as if they are statement of fact, and wording them as if you are confident the entire community agrees with you.

You also have violated clear rules in the forums code of conduct, which had you read. link an address to post complaints. By that I mean the same CoC you agree to read before posting here. You know, its the same one you blatantly ignore, them cry when you get in trouble for it.

He also makes all of is assessments based on comparing the auto attacks of weapons , discounting all utility damage, any damage other then AA, and any damage from F key skills, class mechanic skills, pets, or minions.

Then he goes on to defend the fallacy religiously. Kind of sad really.

Casia.4281:

FT is the single worst scaling weapon in the game.

FT is a kit. Making it impossible to scale as a weapon, best or worst.

That being said, your statement contradict where you claimed to me that our pistols were the worst scaling weapons in the game recently. Wish you would at least stop contradicting yourself.

You cannot broadly compare an AoE ability kit like FT to single target ones.

I am not referring to the crying “engineer sucks” threads. I am referring to the threads with accurate math and comparisons to all skills as a whole and not just fallacy math that only compares one skill per weapon then makes a broad yet incorrect claim that it represents a professions damage as a whole.

Your doing a little thing refereed to where I am from as “Trying to out think common sense.”

Freohr.7905:

It’s nothing that’s been said, but rather what’s not been said. I’ve seen plenty of threads on grenades and pistols but little – on the recent threads – to do with rifles. From that it’s easy to assume that rifles must not be popular and, thus, not as good. So I created this thread to see what some actual Engineer players had to say on the subject.

Huh….Interesting, glad I asked. Out in the PvE and WvW I almost always see 98% rifles. Most of the topics here appear to me to favor rifles greatly. Maybe it is just me, but from what I have seen and read, rifles are more popular to P/P or P/S , 3 to 1.

Mell.4873:

coglin.1496:

There is so much partial math, fallacy math, and misleading equations that leave out necessary numbers from the situation, that is is sickening.

The absurd attempt to make such claims based on one skill per class says a lot the integrity if the idea and the OP.

Then prove it wrong. All im saying is that if you are super skilled eng has the highest dps.

Right. Just like I need to prove every other crazy person wrong, who claimed the world would end in 2000, or claim the world will end next week, or the world will end in 12-2012.

There have been 20+ damage threads on this sub forum alone that prove you wrong. 20+ more on every class sub forum, 40+ more on the general discussion and players helping player sub forum. Perhaps you should have read one of those threads before you made this fallacy of yours.

Prove it? Really? That is your reply? You based your hypothesis off one skill per weapon per class. That is a joke in itself.

Casia.4281:

TabMorte.5297:

I think, now that I’ve gotten over the first handful of levels that the engineer has a lot more options than many other classes thanks to the kits and turrets. Though the first bit is rough until you get into the utility skills because there are so few options in the beginning.

this is currently basically the opposite of true.
Engineers have grenades.

What backward logic are you using? Your claiming we have less options the more skills we have. That is nonsense.

Casia.4281:

The rest of our kits are melee.

Propaganda? Misinformation? Confusion? Which is it? because this is very much factually incorrect. Why do you repeatedly throw misinformation at new people making new threads?

Casia.4281:

Turrets are basically unsuable outside of Spvp due to deploy-able turrets being broken.
Gadgets are massively up. Also have an annoying tendency to be melee, and are not remotely on part with other professions utility skills.

Again wit the bias – Propaganda? Misinformation? Confusion? Which is it? because this is very much factually incorrect. Why do you repeatedly throw misinformation at new people making new threads?

Casia.4281:

Kits that are not grenades do not scale well. Again, overly melee. And engineer trait layout, forces you to focus on one kit entirely too much.
A thief can swap from D/D to shortbow and cover to entirely different playstyles. same with mesmer, and gs/staff, or gs/scepterfocus. Or anyone.

OP ignore this misinformation as well, this person repeatedly misinforms out of what I can only assume as bias hatred for what skills they dislike. or a generally ignorance of the class as a whole.

FT scalles well…..Bombs scale nearly as well, if not as well or better.

Kits are melee? seriously? My Elixir gun kit skills range are 1skill – 1200.. 2 skill – 1200. ..3 skill 1200. The fact that you claim that as melee is insultingly misinforming and embarrassingly misleading to new posters to the engineer forums.

TabMorte.5297:

What combo of skills and traits will gain perma swiftness?

3 real easy ways. Rune set of Centaur gives AoE swiftnees for 10s wit a 10s recast on heal skill use(spammable med kit, works on swap), also adds 20% swiftness duration on top

Or speedy kits (tier 1 trait in tools) gives 5s swiftness wit 5s recast timer. Spammable with any kit

Least productive way is Medkit #5 skill, Elixir B and Toss Elixir B along with the Elixirs last 20% longer trait. Least productive because some RnG is involved to get the swiftness.

There is so much partial math, fallacy math, and misleading equations that leave out necessary numbers from the situation, that is is sickening.

The absurd attempt to make such claims based on one skill per class says a lot the integrity if the idea and the OP.

My question is, what do you think “viable” means?

What have you read that would lead you to believe it would not be viable?

All the grenade threads are generally glass cannon builds. All of our main weapons sets are very solid.

tigirius.9014:

Bleeds don’t do much even with Cond armor on i know i have it.

That is a subjective fallacy of a comment.

tigirius.9014:

The block should have a secondary attack like the other classes with similar abilities, like when hit bam dazes or knocks back or multiple quick hits.

That is not even factually accurate. You say "other classes’. well there are 2 other class’s with shields. Warrior is one, and its shield skill that block, has no natural secondary effect. So, stop making false claims. Further more, it is not a shield skill, so your claim, doesn’t apply at all. It is blocking ability, not a shield skill

tigirius.9014:

They need to bring bleed damage universally up to where burn damage is. .

How so? They do not even function the same. Bleeds easily out damages burn. Bleed can do up to 2,875 damage per second at 1200-1300 condition damage, were as burns cap at around 630 damage per second. They stack and function absolutely differently.

lepri.6504:

I suggest you do not think about sigils if you wanna use FT (juggernaut trait is for FT only)
Otherwise, earth is better

That is very poor advice, indeed. Your implying that someones sigil would not matter because they would never use their main weapon. Kits are utilities. Main weapons and kits work well together, and are designed to do so.

Disco Finikitten65:

bad link. how did you trait?

There is nothing wrong with the link, I just used it, it worked fine.