Guild Wars 2

I’ll vote for 1-up 1-down.

Server linkings don’t care, if it helps the population imbalances do it every week if you have to.

Elite Slasher.3561:

Another thing I want to suggest is reduce population of EB to 30-40 people and have 3 EB maps and on each map you start in different keep. So have 3 Alpine maps, 3 EB maps and 1 desert map. Since as far as I know most people like eb map the and que there is always longest. EB always gets the biggest blobs and most lagg especially 3 way SMC fights. Also only small portion of players like desert borderland so having 1 should be OK.

30v30v30 EB would be pretty neat. Would have to keep the squad to around 20 and everyone else roam/defend.

They should try 50 man caps since the squads are 50 max. Seems you can have a lot more that 50 each right now.

Hey Elite, been enjoying your commanding, the havoc and pugmanding, always fun.

I’m all for lowering the map cap again. Lower than they did last time.

Seems a lot of people only play EB and favor the 3-way setup of the map. Makes sense, having the home BL creates natural 2v1 scenarios and can be more running than most people want to do.

Some have been asking for on-demand maps that’s an interesting way too. Lowering the map cap tho could definitely help with the unplayable skill lag.

Their tanks can use invun skills to start a fight.. your tanks can use their invun skills to counter if they have to. Better yet yours use a dodge roll then they have a huge advantage.

The Game Slayer.7632:

I play on all of the maps. (Except for desert, kitten desert.) Not only are the fights very low in quality, but there are always zergs running around in the BL as well.. Not as frequently as EB, but there have been some queue’s on the bl’s some nights. I also find that the borderlands are incredibly non-conducive to roaming. The way they’re shaped, they don’t flow the people near to the center of the map like EB does. It’s pretty easy to find some fights if I circle around SM for a little, where in the borderlands you have to stick to the south towers/camps if you ever want to find fights.. (Circling SM is far better.)

The alpine borderlands used to be halfway decent when the water existed instead of the ruins. There was a central area, and nothing too crazy in the way. Sure, water fights weren’t fun, but there was always some fights to be had at the orb place with the krait. The ruins are the biggest pain in the kitten to walk through, and it might be okay if the entire map was like that, but it’s not. You have these very open, horizontal areas in most of the borderlands and then right in the middle you have this eyesore that not only looks ugly, but offers far too much verticality when compared with the rest of the map. (A huge reason why many people dislike the desert borderlands and EOTM.)

Ah I suppose if you only play EB and hang around outside SMC you could have problems with lag eh. Why they re-raised the map cap up so high is beyond me. They should have lowered it even more IMO. That sure would give people a reason to try other servers.

The quality of BL fights meh it all depends really. I have enjoyed most of the roamers T1 has recently, little bit too much runaway thieves, druids and mesmers, but the skilled players stand out and make it fun.

Yeah me too I like taking a good toon to the home BL. I find that most of the enemy that attack your BL are groups of 3 – 5, and the key is to not die or “get farmed” by them, keep an eye out during fights.

If you have to reposition or pull back, stay alive, often you’ll find some friends come along also looking for a fight, then it get’s fun.

Do you guys ever play on the borderlands? It’s basically exactly what your asking for. PPT play, small scale play.

Not sure what server your on that has blobs on their BL at all times. T1 NA sure doesn’t.

Don’t get discouraged if they have some backup that shows up to defend something. Maybe you don’t get your PvD fix in but you can always try a different area or change maps.

The Game Slayer.7632:

I have a great roaming build. It’s an old school s/p thief. I love it when I can actually get some fights. The small scale fighting isn’t the problem for me.. Again, it’s the population.

I don’t enjoy the ludicrous amounts of skill lag that were never present in lower tiers.

I don’t enjoy the fact that if the build I’m using doesn’t have moderate – high degree of mobility, I will get chased down with ease from zergs. (This severely limits build diversity for small scale wvw fights if you’re concerned about zergs.

Getting run over by zergs doesn’t happen for me anymore. That’s not what bothers me. Small scale fighting is just on a decline. And it’s not what it used to be.

I don’t enjoy the fact that many other people aren’t as resilient as I am, and have quit the game because of this.. Therefore I don’t have anyone to fight.. It’s very rare that I’m able to encounter someone else who is skilled enough to make me run away

No offence but I really dislike thieves simply because the mechanics don’t mesh well for fights. Same with people who actually build for trapping stealth, and the Mesmer junk..

Your kinda asking for people to not fight you when you can have the “resilience” to just stealth and blink away.

I don’t build for roaming myself but a well built toon can be used for some roaming and zergs and you only have to change 1 weapon or skill to make it effective. I even roam a little on necro and guardian sometimes.

I actually enjoy that there is some bit of class role in WvW. Healers, tanks, roamer classes and such. So try all them classes, ive been messing with a melee ranger.. not as effective as the GWEN’s but it’s fun.

T1 roamers can handle themselves. Solo, group.. whatever. Try working on your build, suggest ele, war, mes or thief. If you want more of a challenge go for a slower class, but again work on a good roaming build.

FA comes in dead last every time they in T2.

YB winning T2… hmmm

Guess maybe FA is worthy to replace DB.. close call tho

Haythere.7513:

Have you even done any models to prove this to yourself? Because if you did, you would see that it doesn’t work that way. Just because the numbers are smaller do not assume that matches will be closer or easier to come back from, its the exact opposite.

Getting a large amount of VP is based more on time then actual ppt/ppk. All you have to do is be the top for the points in the skirmish.

If people would take the time to work it out in excel they would see it actually assists small nightcapping groups. Its about timezone coverage now not about how much of the map you can take and hold. And its harder to come back from even though the numbers are smaller because we are capped in what you can accomplish in a 2 hour period.

Again work it out in a spreadsheet.

Don’t need a spreadsheet, the math is pretty simple. +695 every 5 mins all night long versus +3, +2, +1 every 2 hours.

It is more about coverage now your correct. Matching up the servers with true coverage is what we want. This system simply eliminates “false coverage”, something you used to see with nighcap crews skewing the scores much more than they do now.

Having matchups decided early shows just how bad the match was. The only way to get a huge lead with VP is if it’s basically a blowout. Otherwise the system works well to eliminate the runaway nightcapping problem.

Moving YB manually is a good sign, matchups are half the population problem most of the time, and the glicko system was always messing it up.

Every 3rd place team used to benefit from PvD and night capping to keep their rating up.

In an ideal matchup placement would not be decided until later in the week. Maybe now they will fall to a tier more suited for them and matchups will get better.

Hey Torqued. Love your charts and data always interesting.

VP probably benefits stronger servers because their true coverage shows. Where before weak servers could “catch up” by sneaking in some PvD to manipulate the score.

This would also server to give a more reliable glicko and matchup system and maybe get the servers with true strength matched up against each other.

In your chart it shows some servers took a pretty big drop. Like FA and DB for example. Do you think a drop like that shows a chunk of score was being made from PvD and avoiding fights?

It’s nice to be able to log on if your up one night.

40 people total is OK. When it’s 30 vs 10 tho you have a population imbalance. I’d rather see these imbalances be worked on, most likely thru dynamic population caps, or a reduction in the total maps.

If your stuck in a dynamic queue because your server is blobbing at night, maybe you get hit with the “suggestion” to transfer.

Please we need more transfers to try and salvage this unbalanced mess. Anet either can’t or won’t bring structured play into WvW. Transfers may be the only hope.

The time of no-limit bandwagoning was horrible. Thankfully the lockouts are more strict now. And there is the promise of Anet to work populations even further.. if that means anything to you.

Transfer costs just bolster the bandwagon problem nowadays. Those poor people getting stuck on servers and just quitting the game entirerly.

Remove transfer costs it further kills WvW.

If you want “population balance” (lol) it is already there in the form of full server lockouts. And anet promised to do more work on balancing in the future.

The only problem I see is it would make PvDoor more difficult. One of the big reasons stuff flips is lack of communication.

So I’m all for a WvW global chat.

Community guilds never work very well only a few people ever use it.

Servers are bad. The way they control population is bad. I tried EU thinking the posts about not stacking were true. It’s worse than NA. Counting the days till I can transfer back.

Yes forming a Karma train keeps you safe and you get more kills and die less. This has been known for years. You end up losing the match and stuff gets papered when a group could save it, but whatever. Blob fights would be better but that lag man jeez.

If it was done in game on a player level and an overall player avg it would be more interesting. Just viewing the API of server level kills doesn’t tell much.

Sure and JQ SEA rolls over everything with pure skill. I guess KDR should just be called skill to death ratio.

KDR shows who zergs the hardest obvi. WvW isn’t a pre set GvG. Some servers take any fight, other servers fall back till they outnumber. God bless DB for just fighting it out and having fun.

Props to the DB players that left the zerg to get fights. You guys set a great example for T1. What WvW should be.

Still won the PPT game also nice job. Maybe the other servers will split their K-trains and start challenging themselves too.

4 maps at reset is needed. A few hours after that 4 maps is way too much.

SoS is bad but so is pretty much every server except the 2 that everyone stacked up on.

The pugs are just horribad on all servers nowadays. Easily 10 – 20 people die in the first second of an ecounter it’s just laughable. Fights never last much more that 10 seconds anymore, no one bothers to run to swords cuz chances are it’s over already.

There was always karma zerglings following the tags just collecting loot, but now that the PvP’ers are gone it’s just a shame out there.

Great thread title btw I LoL’d

Lower or remove costs…

Fee’s create the stacking/bandwagon problems. People are paying to “win” the PPT. Get rid of PPT in favor of PvP scoring and active player balancing.

Sol.6213:

displayname.8315:

That’s why their thinking of adding worlds with lower population caps. I for one would take the free transfer to help them balance out the link-ups.

What good is a free transfer if your sidekick server could be linked with a different host server next week? Putting you in a different alliance and possibly a different tier based solely on a population number that you can’t see or predict.

The whole system needs blown up and re-designed.

Restricting max population and adding new worlds for people to settle could be a handy tool for anet to stop the badwagons.

Being able to predict is what caused these matchups to get old. People for some reason saw the need to stack and politic… during a beta lol. Maybe limiting player choice is the right answer after all.

That’s why their thinking of adding worlds with lower population caps. I for one would take the free transfer to help them balance out the link-ups.

Yeah timezones and coverage wars is lame huh. Just want to log in and play/get fights. Hopefully the new low cap worlds and linking will help us all out, if they decide to do it.

Lower Population caps is a great idea. Apply this to the existing worlds and maps too. We will get somewhat of a balance in time.

Not like transferring to the medium servers is expensive. Approx 100 gold to move to any server (link) you want. Gem prices have risen a little since the merges but so have the rewards.

I’ve transferred pretty much every week now, some matchups are better than others.

It’s 100 gold to transfer to the linking of your choice. Nobody cares what your server is named. People will go where the action is.

mulzi.8273:

Today is an example of how YB plays: YB has Stonemist, and BG jumps into EB and attacks Stonemist. YB, after a very light token resistance, decides to zone out into a different map and captures as much as possible to pad their ppt (right now they have all of Blackgate map after BG just took smt). Once BG leaves EB to take back their map, YB zones back to recapture stonemist.

This is what PPT has done to WvW. Its turned it into a ktrain and avoiding fights. Whether its right or wrong, I will not judge BG/YB or JQ either way. Anet made it this way, and the players either play that way or say screw it. But frankly, its boring as kitten to PvD all the time with fights few and far between. And even the fights are not really player vs player as much anymore, its more player vs siege…

Yes that is a great example of how BG needed their entire server to blob down an empty SMC instead of responding to a threat and getting fights. And they say BG is super organized? I don’t see it.

Hmmm… They are only a problem in certain places really. Like SMC 3rd floor and ramparts. The old EB keeps have places you can load them up a little too easy. Most towers and stuff not much of a prob.

Of course it can all be countered with well place ballista’s or ac’s of your own. If the enemy is dug in hard may have to counter with trebs.

So hmm, hard to say if it’s really that imbalanced. Open field ac’s heh.. just be good at fights and positioning not that much of an issue.

I hope they do SOMETHING at least.

YB wins T1 other servers quit…

TC stacks in T2 for a glicko push others servers quit… (thanks T1 quitters)

Tried a little T3 morning sesh but meh guess mornings are all PVD and/or empty maps

Still no actual word on when, or even if this is going to happen?

Dusty Moon.4382:

That IS the point. If the servers that are merged have only populations in the ‘queued’ timezones than the queuing will get worse and the timezones that are not populated will still be unpopulated. Merging servers will NOT FIX THE TIMEZONE COVERAGE – it will exacerbate queues in the popular timezones.

Example, on T2, only DB has a HUGE SEA population. TC and FA have EU while DB and TC have some NA. I would not merge these server due to the way they play: FA is a fight server; DB does both fight and PPT; TC is a kitten PPT server only (they only fight under siege). The difference in fight styles will cause people to leave even faster than they are.

Server merger IS NOT AN OPTION.

Well again queues aren’t really a problem even in primetime. There’s always a free map no matter the day or timezone.

In your T2 NA example their are huge SEA populations. Because it’s not dynamic it has become lopsided. The point is the numbers are there.

I agree merges or whatever is probably uneccesary. Simply changing the transfer system/cost would be better IMO.

Everyone seems to be arguing under the assumption that “primetime” will be too cramped. Right now primetime in the top 2 tiers only queue a single map. Occasionally 2 of the 4 maps will be queued, mostly thats during reset. I don’t think it’s as cramped as you guys think it is.

If you look at all SEA activity across the two dozen servers it is still enough for a matchup or two I’d wager. It’s more about if there is a tag, and what the PPT score is atm.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Server mergers will NOT fix ANYTHING. IF A.Net merged the servers in NA, for example, there would still be no coverage (or very little in SEA) and too much in EU and NA time. So, there would be waiting lines to get in NA and EU and nothing for SEA.

There is no way to really get 24 hour coverage by forcing mergers. Sorry to say.

We’re talking about dozens of servers here. There’s people online doing stuff at pretty much all times. The real problem is they are all over the tiers and servers, other times they are all stacked on one server.

If your talking about guilds that do their rallys in SEA, maybe it would be hard to get man for man coverage in those skirmishes. Guilds are so fickle tho sometimes they’ll raid other times they disappear for weeks.

Dana.8721:

Nothin ever in this game has gotten my heart racing as much as 1v25 for 10+ minutes in Bay while I coordinate with EB comms to come take a port.

Nothing better than chasing a stealth spam build for 10 mins. Oh that PPT woot. They should add reveals to the marked buff.

SkyShroud.2865:

information…

If the seasons are a separate thing from normal WvW that is a pretty cool way to do it. Be a nice break from the normal server wars.

Would be cool if WvW ranks factor in for randoms. I know EotM kinda pads your gamer score but ranks are still a way to tell experience.

If glicko worked better blackgate would have been replaced by now and fights could return to tier 1. TC or dragonbrand are willing to fight. Curse you glicko!!!!!

Orpheal.8263:

So all American Servers mixed up evenly among 3 Factions and all European Servers mixed up evenly among 3 Factions. This and only this change will solve also at the same time the Nightcapping Problems especially for European Servers where you have servers with many different time zones, what is a problem that you Americans DON’T HAVE, because you live all in the same time zone on the same continent.
Correct me if I’m not right with this :P
…

American servers have the same issues. It’s not the French or Germans tho but Chinese, Koreans, Australians….

EotM came close to solving this by lumping servers together in color coded “factions”. Sadly the extra rewards and easy power leveling leads to mostly zergs of uplevels looking for quick XP and loots. And there is no active or dynamic caps so…

1. Population control
2. Matchmaking
3. Remove Glicko
4. Population control
5. Better matchmaking

lmperdigao.2567:

Just for some clarification, the only reason why we had free transfers was because megaservers didn’t exist and we didn’t have guesting back then, so transfering was the only way to play in another server’s PvE map. Once they implemented guesting we got server transfer fees.

They did free transfers for the 2nd tornament and it had nothing to do with guesting or megaservers. It was an attempt to balance pop’s for WvW. There were no limits set so way too many stacked without knowing it.

It could be done a way that’s not chaotic. Also the server pops got locked in once the tournament started so there was no way to rebalance.

Liston.9708:

This. Free transfers wrecked the population “balance” in the first place by stacking a handful of servers… That said limiting free xfers to once a month or every 90 days, may not be so bad at this point….

Transfer limit is once every 7 days right now. I think 30 – 90 is high, maybe 14 days.

During WvW season 2 the penalty was 2 weeks of EoTM only. That was better IMO because it really penalizes match tampering. Maybe a little too harsh for normal play now.

lil devils x.6071:

The thing is YB can do that because no one cares if they do that anymore. They are not winning because they are good, they are winning because everyone left that would have been the ones to stop that. YB apparently is entertained by sieging up towers, the thing is no one else was, and got bored and left. The players coming on don’t care about PPT, they just want fights.

There were some huge fights and numbers on all 3 sides for awhile there. Then I guess JQ imploded or some guy rage uninstalled. Anyways T2 pretty good TC got numbers from somewhere if not T1.

I just left T1 myself because of YB’s absolute, total victory. Was getting hard to find any BG or JQ to fight.

I think some of JQ went to TC because wow it’s been a fight this week. Maybe it’s true they were pulling OT or something tho.

morrolan.9608:

The YB experience is not the experience of the other servers. If the game largely dies on other servers and you are still there fighting doors most of the time is it still alive?

YB is good for sure. I’d also recommend Dragonbrand. Blackgate pretty active lately. Guess I can see why some would want DB in T1, since they have a lot of coverage.