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This BDO talk reminds me of Age of Conan. Had mounts, an action combat system, RvR where players actually build the keeps and influence the world. All of them sound good on paper. I’ll wait until the hype dies down maybe check it out if it’s not a money grab like most new MMO.
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Oh yea I know it is hard to fix but you know what I see a lot? Low tiered players complaining because they have empty maps or can’t find anybody to fight. Instead of transferring they claim they only login for dailies or not at all.. Sorry but to me doing that is only helping making the game mode worse.
Yep it’s only dead on some servers at some times. Watched your T1 vid from tonight – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNeKhdDmFFw&feature=youtu.be
Wow that’s some heavy action. Saw myself in there too.
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Ooooo oooooo
I advise you to stick with it. Go scrapper / elixir and full tank / CC, then if you can get just 2-3 more such scrappers and 1-2 correctly specced druids, you guys will be able to take out entire large groups
Wow that sounds sick and would probably work for zergbusting. Stuff like that is how you can fight and manage the “bombs” of the enemy group.
Most classes you can build to do similar stuff, or to sustain in a zergfight.
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Now you have to be good at adapting, positioning, timing, cooldowns, builds, and teamwork if you wanna melee push.
Saying ‘I can still win by doing what was always required to be effective in melee and playing against t1 scrubs’ doesn’t justify stability not being able to do it’s only job.
Hehe..
I think stability does it job if you use it right. In combination with things like melee elites that also give stability or invuns. The melee stab abilities are also a stun break, I find it best to use them AS a stunbreak, instead of an EZ mode preparation.
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It was simply an answer to your question of why no one is mentioning those yet are talking about stab. Stab mechanic was changed. Those were not.
Aah. I think it’s more because fights were basically: pop group stab, charge in, spam 1. Simple and easy to understand.
Now you have to be good at adapting, positioning, timing, cooldowns, builds, and teamwork if you wanna melee push.
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a slight internal cooldown won’t make it suddenly easy mode. Overwhelming CC bombs will still strip all the stacks.
Meh I guess a slight cooldown on the stack strip. Would that mean it takes 12 seconds to strip full stacks? 5 seconds to stip a stack of 10? That would be pretty much be going back to the old stab where the amount of hits doesn’t matter.
Or are you sayin it’s not balanced for even odds and “normal” sized fights? Seems we’re just talking about small vs overwhelm.
None of those skills or mechanics were changed like stab was. Also because this:
So I take it you mean all the active and passive invuns, stun breaks, cleanses and such were to counter stuff like DH spam? There’s still some guild builds that are tough to stop with cc spam. And of course they’re doing things like using teamspeak and training together.
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Learning to play in and of itself doesn’t automatically make the current CC-stab balance in WvW fun.
The stab change was a HUGE tweak that strongly punishes small mistakes even skilled players can make from time to time. What people are asking for is a re-evaluation of how strongly one is punished for those tiny mistakes. Also, when you say it is about skill, how much skill really is involved in a zerg of DH spamming Hunter’s Ward?
Fun is objective. You know the players that can hold their own in a fight. And you can tell when a 1-push wipe is from l2p issues. Even on the old school classes you can manage to have fun and last to the end.
Interesting that people never really discuss the invulnerable skills heavy’s get, or anything about stun breaks and vigor, dodging, skills with evades. passives in your class build. It’s always just stability.
I agree that DH ward spam is out of control and should be nerfed. But don’t see the need to make stability EZ mode because of it.
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Sounds like you guys need to work on your siege placement and clearing walls. A good 5 man group will not be stopped by a single scout.
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If they make any changes it should be small tweaks only.
The more skilled a player the better they can time their stability, dodge rolls, stun breaks, invuns and so on. Learn to play is still the biggest issue with WvW.
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Congratulations Dragonbrand on another well earned T2 victory!
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“Fights” … 1v1 or 5v5 or 15v15.
Yep I agree, where the gw2 combat system breaks down is around 30v30 or 40v40. With the 5 target aoe cap, stability stacks, and lag. Putting 80 people on tag and calling that a “fight” is ridiculous.
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Abandoning everything on the map and stacking all 90 players on a single tag to “fight”… LoL. That used to be called Omni-Blobbing. K-Training since they use the blob to take objectives most of the time. “Fights” hah.
T2 is indeed better but can be hit or miss alot of times. If you only play NA evenings I’d say it is superior..
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What TorquedSoul has shown is that ANet should probably change the type of curve being applied, because the curve they use is too aggressive in punishing the winner and propping up the loser.
Yep this curve that punishes the winner and props up the loser should go, or be adjusted.
IMO glicko is just bad because it forces people to PPT push, instead of simply winning.
I still like idea of winner gets +1 rank (2nd and 3rd get +0). So matches would not flip flop ever week, but after a few wins the rank up would be enough to move a tier.
Or maybe the curve change.. since a total blowout win could move you were you belong.
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Makes me think the KISS method would have been best. Like winner up -loser down.
But what would you do with the third server? If its +1/-1/0 on a server ladder you would end up with servers sharing the same rank. If T1 contain servers A, B, C at ranks 1, 2, 3 respectivly and B wins while C looses… You would have A at 1, B also at 1 and C at 4, with no server capable of being 2 lol.
After thinking about a rank points system I kinda like the idea of ranking/matching by meritocracy.
I think it might be better if only the winner of a tier gets +1 rank point while the other 2 either stay the same or get replaced by a +1 rank server.
This would make it so a server would have to win a tier 3 times to move up. They would have to win a tier once to be safe from dropping.
In that scenario if B, the rank 2 server wins they would replace the A server as rank 1 and A would become rank 2. If the rank 4 server wins T2 they would replace C the rank 3 server and C would become rank 4 in T2.
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Thanks for not letting me down, displayname.
No. KISS is not always the correct path, and 1-up-1-down is not better or more virtuous for being easily understood with basic arithmetic. This was shown, on this forum, years ago. It doesn’t work on this, a tiered ladder with 3-party matches. Thinking otherwise means you haven’t thought or worked through its consequences over time: the basic arithmetic, played out multiple times, for multiple matches, in sequence.
Unfortunate that this forum’s search is forever broken. This was a very longly debated subject back when ANet was still fiddling with the thing, and particularly at the month where they tightened their per-server random seed from 1.0 to 0.5. It was then shown here what a model of 1-up-1-down looks like over time in this, and it wasn’t good. That’s easy to replicate, if you’re interested. Just do it.
Oh hey anvil
I don’t see the problem with winners moving upwards instead of downwards, what are the consequences? Are you saying having variety in matchups in a no-no because of a few stacked servers? That is a whole different enchilada and should be considered a problem to be solved not something to be worked around.
Random seeds or whatever is not what 1-up-1-down is about. Typically the most stacked server is the winner and the smallest server is the loser. Very simple, and at the same time rewards winners and removes the need for glicko pushes.
Id just be happy with a simple ranking system by win-place-show and match servers by their rank instead of —-
wAGlickoScore = (sin((wAPercent – 0.5) * Pi) + 1) * 0.5
+randomizer formula.. whatever that is
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I fully agree with you. If you have enough of 2 other servers on your map to cause outnumbered buff the situation is bad and usually makes for boring gameplay.
A lot of arguments would say people would somehow abuse the outnumbered buff by “forcing” people to leave or some such nonsense to get the buff to pop. I personally feel this is a ridiculous argument. But maybe the buff could become too powerful and should only be for defensive purposes like structure hitpoints and npc powerups.
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Don’t have time to learn how the Glitchy 2.0 Scoring works but they should have done this instead of the Glycol one
1st place moves up on tier
2nd place stays on tier
3rd place moves down on tierwhy do complex math if you can make it simple with better results……?
Using the top as an example, top and the runner up would have to match up again unless special rules are added
The #1 and #2 servers always face each other anyways. At least they would have opponents cycling in.
From playing T1 recently they do have a bit of a higher avg of total players than T2. Mostly just NA pugs stacking things up. With a few transfers it would balance quick enough. I know the gem costs to transfer are a little too high but maybe something will change on that too.
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Makes me think the KISS method would have been best. Like winner up -loser down.
But what would you do with the third server? If its +1/-1/0 on a server ladder you would end up with servers sharing the same rank. If T1 contain servers A, B, C at ranks 1, 2, 3 respectivly and B wins while C looses… You would have A at 1, B also at 1 and C at 4, with no server capable of being 2 lol.
With winner up – loser down its as simple as win your matchup move up a tier, lose and move down a tier, place second and remain in your current tier. No need for +1 points or sine waves.
This would result in movement only between adjacent tiers, while still allowing stacked servers to move in the correct upwards direction each week.
Either way maybe they’ll “fix the error” and we’ll get more accurate, expedient movement.
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Very interesting. I wonder what Habib Loew would say about this if he still works at Anet. His explanations and calculus formulas in the original thread were also very in depth.
wAGlickoScore = (sin((wAPercent – 0.5) * Pi) + 1) * 0.5
?=). ¿¿¿¿
Always wondered why it seemed so off from what actually takes place. Should have figured it was an error in the code, or bad math whatever.
Makes me think the KISS method would have been best. Like winner up -loser down. Or Johje’s suggestion of a modified glicko-based swiss.
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@ArchonWings
Do you get free xfer’s? You should be able to move servers like a dev, would be a nice benefit for your volunteering. The borderlands aren’t all that bad, just played a little differently. There is people playing them a lot of times in T1, but it is more roamer based for sure. Teams actually hop maps to defend “their” air or fire keeps.
The Old bl’s were a lot the same, empty until responded to, but responded to more often as well when hit.
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@TorquedSoul
Wow amazing post and great research. Ill be sure to add some feedback when I get thru it all. Maybe the dev’s will take notice if a conversation gets going.
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This site GW2WvW may be better place for your anti-SoS propaganda and PvF. Come join us!
Do not worry tho, glicko will soon work it’s magic and DB will close T2 with it’s YB alt accounts and everyone will forever be happy again.
Mother Earth tanks you all for the extra water production over PPT ;D
I feel ya brother I joined SoS hoping to fill the ranks and have some T2 fun. Donated a few times to the community warchest, roamed, defended… After a month or two of no-fights PvD tho I took my leave.
Maybe your guild will get that sweet gold offer too.
Sorry I think I’m close to a forum ban and so I deleted/edited the part of my post you where referring to. It was too match-up oriented stuff.
NP man hope your guild gets bought tho if their into that sort of thing. JQ still the only full server. That site btw is weird and the few people that post there don’t talk about matchups much. /shiver
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This site GW2WvW may be better place for your anti-SoS propaganda and PvF. Come join us!
Do not worry tho, glicko will soon work it’s magic and DB will close T2 with it’s YB alt accounts and everyone will forever be happy again.
Mother Earth tanks you all for the extra water production over PPT ;D
I feel ya brother I joined SoS hoping to fill the ranks and have some T2 fun. Donated a few times to the community warchest, roamed, defended… After a month or two of no-fights PvD tho I took my leave.
Maybe your guild will get that sweet gold offer too.
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. It is not isolation, it is the T1 servers overstacking and trying to buy as many guilds as they can.
It’s not overstacking, there is no way to get past FULL status anymore. Capacity servers is what makes WvW an active environment.
Now if SoS comes out of T3 and wins T2 the way DB did one would conclude that they earned their spot in the tier. Even second place would be a victory of sorts. And that should be what decides your placement.
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Yeah nothing will happen until the overhaul probably. Anet has paperwork to do or some loot to add to PvE.
I personally think winner up – loser down is a fine way. Make it 2-in-a-row wins replaces the up tier loser if your really that concerned with PPT.
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Blackgate and YB performed better in these tests then TC, that’s why TC stayed in T2.
Yep and it only took months of demoralization and people quitting in frustration to find out the T2 winner should move up and the T1 loser should move down. Thanks glicko!
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The last test of T1 vs T2 was last Sept. (week 35/2015, http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/history/313) where Blackgate played in T2. At that time the 280pts distance between Blackgate and SoS and FA got confirmed.
Dude the last test of T1 vs T2 was TC….
They were the weak link and now their stuck down in T2. Blackgate was actually winning their matchups when glicko went and put the winner down a tier. That’s glicko for you……..
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I guess you really don’t understand Glicko. That is only ONE SMALL part of it (and that is a mod that A.Net did to the Glicko formula). The other part is how well the server population performs and how even that performance is. If Server population were the only criteria, the smaller servers would be higher tiers than they are.
I guess you don’t understand population and timezone coverage. I’ve tried the smaller, low tier servers and they would not be in higher tiers at all. They hardly even muster a fight during NA prime. You would not see a dead server winning. If it went by winners move upwards and 3rd place risks downwards we would get better matchups.
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If glicko were reflective of population half these servers would drop like a rock. Instead these cancers called “push weeks” are possible. Can be a no-show for weeks and finally when glicko starts to wake up you just PvD a little.
No it’s slow and bad. Takes all the meaning out of winning. Again the server that won should not drop a tier.
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Since sos is in t2 again this week, they have to hit them super hard to make them lose glicko and bring you back up.
I hope they listen to Buffy. I was ready to go back to T2, dumped all my gold for it. T1 is good and all but the politics and blobbing is still strong with the old guard. Why can’t they just go for fights and fun like YB. ((((
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Guys thanks for explaining glicko very helpful….
Winners should not drop a tier. Old banked glicko from who knows how long ago is causing stale gameplay and it could really help if it were changed.
Of course there are tons of threads asking for these changes, or winner up loser down ladders ect and nothing ever came of it.
This one from Michaelangelo was well written. Wonder what happened to him, probably rage-uninstalled like so many others.—
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Glicko-s-Accuracy-Is-Kinda-Pathetic/first
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I was rooting for you DB you guys won and are champions! So sad you get punished for winning :,(
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Well home BL supports defence somewhat. Starting from garri is better than starting from bottom corners. North camp and North towers are easily taken from home spawn point.
You guys know emergency waypoints work even if the regular ones don’t? Yeah they designed new WvW thinking “WvW guilds” would exist, and play the game. Well they exist in T1 anyways and it sorta works.
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Yeah and how about fashion shows?? I want a obsidian sanctum with a runway in it. And rows of benches for people to watch me do my walk.
GvG guilds have arenas now and what do fashion forward people get??? NOTHING
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P.S. lets not remember how anet killed underworld in 2013 with free server transfers…
Never forget.
I’m lost do you guys want people to be allowed to transfer and balance out servers that are still active or are you saying that if even 1 server is dead then we should just declare game over?
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P.S. lets not remember how anet killed underworld in 2013 with free server transfers…
Never forget.
I’m lost do you guys want people to be allowed to transfer and balance out servers that are still active or are you saying that if even 1 server is dead then we should just declare game over?
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Agree with OP no need to revert to old stuff.
Once you learn the map it’s OK. Using the portals and proper routes gets you around north and middle in a decent time. The way its designed really give advantage to playing from top of map to bottom (home team advantage).
Needs just a little work to be pretty good. Looks great.
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Some have suggested a cool down on stability removal. Say if you get a stack removed your immune from removal for 0.5 seconds. I think that could work.
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As recent as last month they commented on the new changes comming from Reyana and other commanders. In this dev post here – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-vs-World-Holiday-Sneak-Peek
I hope they keep working with the main WvW commanders or at least “take their feedback to heart” like they said in the post.
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Yet GW2 is still the 2nd most played MMO game.
lol, 2nd most played mmo – my kitten. According to who? Some site affiliated/partnered with NC$oft/EAnet? This game is not even in top 10 MMO’s, it’s jsut the reddit white knight army is very active in all kind of polls.
Also server pride is stupid. It’s a video game, who cares.
I’d like to know the source about it too. GW2 is not the least played, but is far from the most played at the same time.
So what are these 10 other MMO’s that are played more than GW2? I’d like to try them most MMO that come out are cheap garbage. I want to know what he thinks is most played, probably ESO.
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Tsaid they were bringing tournaments back, and WvW would be priority #1 after the HoT launch. So………..
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For those that don’t know can use http://wvwintel.com/
select your server, click the down arrow under server names “toggle detailed info”
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I much prefer the suggestions of making PPK part of the outnumbered buff. Either way I don’t think anything will stop trolls from being trolls.
My question is how were they able to achieve spawn camping, was your server dead or something? Did you not have a keep waypoint to use? If you didn’t own your keep where was your servers zerg?
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The real problem is thieves and mesmers are boring to fight/kill.
Yes – And somewhere the point of wvw having objectives is lost. Can we make all of the maps flat? That’ll save time walking to a spawn for fights.
Meh PPK means very little, it adds around 15k – 20k points to a server (in T1 – T2). All servers get nearly the same kills so does nothing.
They were just being trolls spawn camping with a lame stealth gimmick. Don’t get caught.
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The real problem is thieves and mesmers are boring to fight/kill.
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I hope they do something like this. I agree leave the servers for the guilds, lots of people will only play when their guild is rallied. I would love it if they just added said button for mercs like OP and myself so we could auto balance from T1 on down the line.
Lots of exciting ways to fix WvW, hope Anet picks something good this time.
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- EOTM is a toxic breeding ground for undesirable gameplay and including non-competitiveness and combat-avoidance, PvE farming events and objectives intended to be fought over to grind WXP/EXP/karma.
- EOTM has been abused since implementation. Most people probably haven’t experienced it as it was intended. I encourage and all guilds and communities to show them. Butcher them!
If people wanted to wvw instead of EOTM they would. They’re not there for a reason. If you remove EOTM, there’s no guarantee they’ll go to WvW.
- If you had watched the preshow from Friday’s live stream (22nd January 2016), you would have seen Reyana explain why people are going to EOTM – because WvW is so quiet at the moment, a Catch 22 situation.
- I think it’s time people stopped pretending that EOTM is it’s own game-type. It isn’t.
*Eotm is fun and fast paced.
*Lots of player interaction and combat.
*Great for beginners and experienced players.
*Great for solo or group players looking for action.
*Eotm was popular upon release, nothing new.
*WvW problems are dev development problems sorry. Time for y’all to stop making excuses…
*I played WvW up until the last tournament and it’s boring as all get out compared to eotm… Better map than what wvw has to offer too, and more conducive to encourage fighting and making it to objectives in time to catch the enemy or defend…
*You should spend more time there, you might learn something…
I just came from a QQ EoTM map with players mad because they got wiped. Commander rage quit because of all the QQ. Players were leaving to find a new instance that they were not getting farmed in… Best wvw experience I ever had in all my game time. NOT
I was going to stream a full 3 hours of k-training but the first 10 minutes showed me it is not even worth it..
And I’ve been on plenty of maps with great commanders and great competition…
Go tag up and stream it, let’s see your wvw leadership skills in action…
I don’t know that map like you guys do.. Do I really want to run players off an edge while I’m looking at the map? All I will do is slow down the k-train and make people mad. I come here to make people mad.. In game I’m different and would rather not make people mad..
Tag up and take a leadership role on a map without a commander or wait until reset… Capture objectives, find and kill the enemies, bag farm the enemies… Go lead and win the zone with the highest points… Set the tone and players will follow your command.
Set up your stream and I may even join your squad depending on time and you can lead me too…
I’m still learning the map myself but it’s a decent setup for a single 3 way map. Used to think the PvE elements were too much but it’s nothing compared to the new WvW.. LOL.
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@Svarty is right we need to encourage more guild play and fights in EotM. I play it more than WvW now and the fights are much less toxic there. No banners, less pin snipe, less pirate ship. No “calling in the blob” to faceroll in the name of PPT.
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Scared to fight in wvw where it actually matters? Once ppk comes into play EoTM will get even more players because why give points to the other servers by dying? Just go to the one game mode where nothing you do matters at all.. I’ve never been killed by an up-level so no this is not the reason I prefer wvw over upleveled map blobs..
WvW actually matters? Hah! It’s full of gimmicks and empty timezones. It’s practically dead except for NA prime, even that is pretty weak.
Now that WvW is the new testing ground, full of banner “nukes” and airstrike “nukes”, people actually go eotm for sandbox fights.
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My guild [IX] Had better fights and more fun in one night of EotM than the past 3 months of regular WvW combined.
Thanks for bringing some talent into EoTM, that’s exactly what it needs. Just too bad they linked eotm to the servers instead of making it a balanced megaserver. Maybe they’ll get it right on this new “overhaul” we hear so little about.
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