Guild Wars 2

ukuni.8745:

I’ve been running this kinda build for a few weeks now working out the kinks and kitten, any way my variation has had great success and imo it makes the normal hgh build a bit of a joke, I’d like to do a write up for was but I’m at work so I’ll see what I can do this week maybe get some videos or something like that

thank you that would be awesome

Mr Chris.4906:

Alternative to HGH… still uses HGH.

wat

HGH is the name given to the elixir build, just because i included that trait in there does not mean it’s the same build, also you can choose not to bring it

Destroyer.1306:

A few questions.

Why did you take HGH if you took no elixirs? I might take Backpack Regenerator or Deadly Mixture.

Why did you take Kit Refinement? If I can have Surprise Shot anyway, I probably am going to want Static Discharge.

Is Forceful Explosions really necessary? I think I’d take something that increases DPS there.

On the Rune of Altruism wiki page, it says the cooldown is 15s and not the 10s stated in the tooltip. Have you tested it? Was it fixed in the patch?

What is the radius on these party aoe buffs?

I like the idea of your build. Personally, I might opt for the new Elixir Gun 4 as a blast finisher over one of the turrets, because that I think would be the best damage among the choices of Bomb Kit, Pistol/Shield, and Elixir Gun. I might also just go Grenadier though, and skip one of the blast finishers.

edit: With Grenadier, although you’d only be able to offer 12 Mights (instead of 15) per rotation (and I suppose 6 fewer than your perma 20-25 Might claim), you’d also be able to put 20ish stacks of Vulnerability on the enemies because of Steel-Packed Powder.

hidden flask and self-regulated deference still trigger HGH but yea like i states its a high versatile build so feel free to modify it any whichever way work for you best

that was a mistake, it was suppose to be speedy kits and yea on my version i put 20 on tools and use static, but if you run with condition you might wanna get grenadier and run without the AoE buffs

nope, build highly customizable, i brought it because it makes it a lot easy to set up might bombs and also cause i love concussion bomb and wanna get the greatest range out of it

yup, i tested and you’re right, it has a 15s cd

they are blast finishers and currently their range is not listed on the wiki so i can’t exactly tell you

and yup, great idea, i’m gonna start using GE as well i believe and i like your thinking with granader see, im not giving out a build, just the base for it and the rest is up to you to decide which you’re already doing, now is just a matter of trying and i dont think you will be disappointed, there are lots of possibilities

This is an alternative to the HGH build i made

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Better-Alternative-to-the-HGH-Build/first#post1572581

Gets alot of love from all the teams i play with

Optional If you want to share the love with your team

Bring “Bomb Kit” for its #2 and another 2 other blast finishers ( turrets preferably )

Execute the combo however you feel comfortable, this is my way

place big old bomb > Fire Bomb > x2 Turrents > magnetic shield > med kit

keep in mind each blast finisher gives x3 might for 20 secs ( + your 70-90% extended duration)

x4 Blast finishers = x12 34s Might + 3 from Altruism for a total of 15 AoE Might on rotation.. making it possible for you to keep up to 20-25 stacks of might on your surrounding team mates, as well as assuring a 25 perma might on yourself

Important: The build is VERY VERSATILE, so you can use any blast finishers you want and tweak it to make it you’re own

also, please try the build ( even the water down version at the mist using rune of the fighter ) so you’re able to make an educated comment, thank you

Teams will love you if you give them lots of might they are gonna be like WoW this engi is amazing

If you love might stacking, but you feel like you’re not getting love from your teams, try the much improved version to the oh so popular HGH Engi build

it’s a really simple and versatile i’m sure you’re gonna love if given a chance, it stacks might more effectively than HGH as well as is able stacks up to 20+ mights on surrounding allies! oh and if you don’t want, the build doesn’t hug all of your utility slots

since the build can be played on either direct dmg, condition dmg or support i wont be giving up an exact build but rather telling you the backbone of the build and you decide

all you need is:
-x2 Rune of Altruism
-x2 Rune of the Fire
-x2 Rune of Hoelbrak
-Sigil of Battle

everything else, like stats on gear, trinkets, weapon is optional and completely up to you deepening on the build that you’ve decided to run.

traits
tools 20: III | X |
0
0
alchemy 30: I | IV | XI
tools 10: VI

note that you still have 10 trait points that you can spend wherever you want.

Skills: Med KIt

Benefits:

1) same survival than HGH builds
2) by simply switching to Med kit:
-Randomly 18 perma might
-21-25 perma might if timing med kit ( 10s cd on might rotation )
or if omnomberry cream
– 6+ might to nearby allies ( x3 per switch )
3) Does “NOT” require you to waste your heal
4) Besides might, you will also get perma swiftness, vigor and spammable fury

Getting rid of PvP Gear is too time consuming and I’m sure its keeping people like myself from completing sets just because of all the work involved on having to salvage or destroy every single item, so a new faster option would be nice like allowing us to sell or simply give to merchant ?

Think like a dev ;p they are holding onto gadgets and turrents so that in the future they can boost and shift meta builds

not sure how to delete a thread lol

i take EG :P much better and x2 condition removal and acid bomb is too nice for PvE but yea i guess, i would deff take flame thrower if it had a blash finisher, and AoE overtime and a smoke field forsure

lol… true, i forgot about the limitation !! oh well, i still think that those changes would have a positive impact on FT

and currently FT is not really a sPvP or WvW weapon :P! its for mainly PvE for people who likes burn things, but if more utility is added it could be

the only thing FT really needs is a real #5 skill something like

“Melting ground: melt the group around you causing dmg over time and enemies move 50% slower” last 5s 40s CD

and making #2 a blast finisher

they cannot boost the damage because if anyone haven’t noticed the FT hits everything in front of you.. it’s greatest strength is not how much single target damage it can make but how many mobs it can damage, so if boosted even by a little this would unbalance because you’re hitting literally everything, so basically what this kit needs to be successful, its a little more utility

Dungeons should have a difficulty similar to fractals, allowing inexperienced players to complete as well as this would please players looking for more of a challenge with the incentive of better loot. Also this would open new possibilities such a new armor gears only acquirable through high levels as well as allow for much more replayability.

negative: something like this on every dungeon could make it harder to get groups, specially for low levels as well as it would concentrate the population around dungeons which is the opposite that anet is currently trying do by diversifying and populating every map.

nah, anet is taking infused gear out fractals and into PvE general, take a look at the new infusions as well as they talked about introducing agony to dungeons.

The reason for amulets and ring and accessories can only be acquire through laurels is because Anet is trying to move out the casual game category, they want players to play more and every day if possible so laurels is the best option;

1 laurel = 1 day

Amulets 30 laurels x1 = 30 days of gameplay
Rings 35 laurels x2 = 70 days of gameplay
Accessories 40 laurels x2 = 80 days of gameplay
infusions 20 laurels x6 = 120 days of gameplay
________________________
* 300 days of gameplay *( 200+ asuming you did every montly)

ps: would take roughly the same time with guild missions ( 12 weeks each )

Obviously anet will introduce new controlled ways to earn laurels through things like achievements etc, but for right now this will keep the players busy. Also this will buy anet time to work on fractals and decide in which direction it will be going since it will be 6 months before anyone can do fractals 50+ ( i could explain why they dont want people over 40 yet but too lazy :P)

and yes! Spy kits and food nerf was directly aimed at fractals since no content currently in-game has a difficulty that would require such items.

wouldn’t something like this balance pets a little since on most bosses or anywhere with AoE they usually just die ?

Theif have dagger storm
Necro Plague
and we have elixir X for stability :P

daydream.2938:

Honestly a reasonable list.

Smoke vent increase to 240 would be sufficient combo field would be 2 much.
however, i think the flamethrower #2 should be a blast finisher when you blow it up. ( thief #2 shortbow is a non stop blast finisher).

I dont agree with exliri U changes. But i wish our ultimate wasnt a RNG. Id prefer it simply be tornado reliablly.

if they were to make it tornado, hopefully they would boost it at least cause as of right now tornado is the most suicidal skill ingame

Hahaha Elixir S would be awesome, even if they make so it ends after you chose 1 option! would add a lot of versatility to the class, love the idea!

( Currently Supply is the best elite but sadly enough, not even runes consider it an elite.. )

Ayestes.1273:

SilverWF.4789:

And omnomberry food!

This, while I’m sure you will disagree with me, is something that needed to be nerfed. All other on-crit effects in the game have cooldowns and not only was it exceedingly strong it didn’t make any sense in comparison. The food it still good, but it’s exceptional cases are now capped so that it performs similar to the rest of the food out there.

The way they handled Kit Refinement though, is a terrible way to nerf it. Weaker versions of the Grenade Barrage and Super Elixir from it would have been the better way. It should encourage multi-kit builds, not discourage them. Three kit builds with Kit Refinement got hampered significantly, even though Flamethrower and Elixir Gun by themselves received significant buffs. It seems counter-productive to build diversity, which is the thing they should be striving for.

I have said this on most threads I’ve replied, if you think about, it seems that what anet wants to encourage players to stay in kits for longer and design build
around those kits like FT or EG, and discourage kit swamping

and even tho the trait is currently broke, i believe this was intentionally so that at a later date they can nerf again and claim it as a bug fix

Ayestes.1273

that’s true but if they remove the RNG from this skill, other players will request the same from other skills and they won’t do that. so the only thing left to do is to think twice before you use it, usually i keep elixir S for guardians, theif, ele stomp only and throw elixir S for any other class

but yea, it would be nice if you could also use them to make a get away

SilverWF.4789:

google.3709:

keep in mind that you would have to go to med kit to get Altruism to work and this will mess up FT’s stacking

ps: check out enchance performance ( explosives X ), gives 3 might whenever you use med kit, goes well with Altruism and you would be stacking 9 mights just by going on med kit

Don’t forget this is kinda trick and it will be nerfed (fixed) too – what you’ll say after that?

the runes won’t be nerfed as for the skills i highly doubt it, as the game has introductory classes like guardian or warriors ( very simple and straight forward that require little to not skill at all ), every class has its own introductory build which enables players to learn the class at relative ease, and that’s what might stacking elixir build is for engineer, an easy, safe, fun, reliable build that is no where near overpowered which is perfect for new players or people who don’t want to bother pressing 646547 bottoms

@Ayestes.1273

keep in mind that throw Elixir S might not be as useful or reliable on PvE but it has its place on sPvP and WvW where either outcome can be used to finish off downed players

google.3709:

yup, cool down is the only problem with gadgets, other than that, they have good skills and are fun to play with

LOL!!! too funny

toss elixir yes, they are lacking alot, but their only purpose it to fuel up elixir builds so their effect rarely matters, but for any other skill, the tool belt has some of the strongest skills available to engineer, some times they are better than their utility counterpart and if combined with static discharge they can do crazy damage,

keep in mind that you would have to go to med kit to get Altruism to work and this will mess up FT’s stacking

ps: check out enchance performance ( explosives X ), gives 3 might whenever you use med kit, goes well with Altruism and you would be stacking 9 mights just by going on med kit

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

thing is: if the patch note includes tool kit, you can be sure that will be fixed.

Don’t forget there are 2 speeds of engineer bug fixes:

- months, for the bugs we want fixed
- weeks, for the bugs we don’t want fixed

weeks but don’t specify how many! last bug that was bother to fixed was deployable turrets and there is a post counting up to days to 181days to be fix, im sure its alot longer :P

deployable turrets was a bug we wanted fixed, it falls under category ‘months’. Or in your wording: unspecified number of weeks…
Trust me: kit refinement change and tool kit won’t take that long.

hopefully it doesn’t take long, at first i was upset but after playing for a while i tweaked my play style a little and discover a variety of new combos, specially with acid bomb which are currently handicapped by the light field and a 10 secs CD will be a great improvement for grande and GE

the trait will still be usable, dedicated players will work a way around it like they always do, the main person gettin hurt are the casual players

I can’t imagine how I could use a 3 kit build (let alone 4 kit) while making practical use of kit refinement.
It’s not about being casual.
I simply swap kits every few seconds.
For example I stack every confusion skill in a row, or chain cc, or other combo’s.

The strenght of my builds is too think across kits, not within kits.

There is no way on earth I can rely on the new kit refinement in such a playstyle.
I will waste kit refinement procs on nails when I need heals next , on med kit bombs when I want aoe blast next, on a light field when I want a cripple next…

The new kit refinement is only reliable on 1, max 2 kits… given the fact you don’t swap around those 2 kits on a skill per skill basis, and rather on a ‘10 second timer’ basis.

So they effectively made kit refinement a way of forcing the normal weapon swap playtyle on kits.
That’s why the trait is so bad now: for a real multi-kit build it is now unreliable.
Multi-kit builds simply don’t stay in a kit very long… ever.

I sort of thought that this was the idea the dev’s had for engineer kits, and than they do this.

same here, this forces us to change not our builds but our playstyle which is worse, if we continue to play the way this will only cause kit refinement to become one more random & unreliable thing to add to our list

we might get the trait back because of the amount of attention that it’s gotten, its important to engis and its not something overpowered by any means so why handicap it ?

if you go on the other classes forums no other class is discussing the effects of the nerf like we are, most classes were unaffected and if anything got buffed, the only ones who have really mentioned anything is ranger and theif, and ranger basiclly like “they screw us once again” or “stop playing your ranger” while theif is discussing the stealth Nerf to no major extend, other than that its just us engi patiently waiting for a dev to give us a clear answer about the nerf. and there have been several threads asking for the same thing

we know devs are reading this because they deleted my tread as soon as i pointed out how OP warrior’s rifle is, so yea.. hopefully they will speak up soon.

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

thing is: if the patch note includes tool kit, you can be sure that will be fixed.

Don’t forget there are 2 speeds of engineer bug fixes:

- months, for the bugs we want fixed
- weeks, for the bugs we don’t want fixed

weeks but don’t specify how many! last bug that was bother to fixed was deployable turrets and there is a post counting up to days to 181days to be fix, im sure its alot longer :P

deployable turrets was a bug we wanted fixed, it falls under category ‘months’. Or in your wording: unspecified number of weeks…
Trust me: kit refinement change and tool kit won’t take that long.

hopefully it doesn’t take long, at first i was upset but after playing for a while i tweaked my play style a little and discover a variety of new combos, specially with acid bomb which are currently handicapped by the light field and a 10 secs CD will be a great improvement for grande and GE

the trait will still be usable, dedicated players will work a way around it like they always do, the main person gettin hurt are the casual players

amiable.4823:

Rynn.1324:

It’s pretty obvious at this point that Anet has absolutely no idea what to do with this class.

This. There is a lot of shizophrenia going on in these updates, with major nerfs shrouded in a series of minor buffs. I think they just don’t have a clue what they want to do with the class.

They failed to give the class a role in the game and an identity, most players came into the game thinkign they were gonna be using lots of gadgets, powerful turrents and an awesome flame thrower but … trolol

Kimbald.2697:

google.3709:

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

thing is: if the patch note includes tool kit, you can be sure that will be fixed.

Don’t forget there are 2 speeds of engineer bug fixes:

- months, for the bugs we want fixed
- weeks, for the bugs we don’t want fixed

weeks but don’t specify how many! last bug that was bother to fixed was deployable turrets and there is a post counting up to days to 181days to be fix, im sure its alot longer :P

Kimbald.2697:

And ‘discourage’ kit swapping is the most ludacris thing a dev could ever say when discussing the ‘versatile’ engineer

What the hell is the point of zero cooldown kit swapping versus 10 second weapon swapping? Weapons are better than kits…
So if not to ENCOURAGE kit swapping, I can’t see the point of the whole design.

Not saying you are wrong, just pointing at the utter lack of consistancy in the way they handle engineer design.

they have failed to give the engineer a role in game or identity as a class, and that’s what they are trying to do now, they want us to play the game 1 way but people play it another, so they nerf.. if they have time to spend hours writing code to break a perfectly balance trait, not to mention it was one of the best ones we have, why can’t they do anything about gadgets and turrents? or fix the long list of bugs

and bro, trust me 100nades is completely fine! they can still magnet pull and spike normally

SilverWF.4789:

Engineer patch : Nerf or buff?

Obviously, great NERF.

trait is broken as of now, as long as you avoid FT or EG, you’re good! if anything they are doing us a favor by keeping people away from those :P ( although i like EG)

Kimbald.2697:

100nades is untouched because it uses the tool kit for magnet pull alongside the obvious grenade kit.
Tool kit indeed doesn’t proc the internal cooldown of kit refinement.

So either they did this on purpose to ‘spare’ 100nades (= unlikley version)
or it’s a bug and Tool kit slipped the radar for now on the change (= version I believe in from deep in my dark conspiracy filled world)

nah, i’m sure its more towards the reason i gave you, the trait is broken for a reason, so they can nerf it whenever they see fit and claim is as a bug fix, they want people to use the upgraded EG and FT

Kimbald.2697:

Discussing it in other topics too much already, so a summary from my views:

- FT: big buffs, not big enough but still very good.
Mostly puzzled why the tool belt is still on a 60 second cooldown. Amazingly bad tool belt skill for a kit.

- EG: blast finisher is ‘ok’, stunbreaker would have been ‘great’.
Better healing is better healing, even if not spectacular it’s a good change.

- Prybar: awesome…

- kit refinement: biggest nerf to engineer versatility ever. Without exagerating. A tremendous nerf to multi-kit builds in so many ways.

- about 100nades: don’t let 8 grenades of grenade barrage overlap in the center (make it 4 or 6 and the rest bit outside of single character model) and you have succesfully destroyed any burst that build had.
if nerfing 100nades was their intention, they could have done it very effective without touching upon aoe or any other build at all.
Poor design, can’t say anything more.
Just this: I do NOT want 100nades nerfed that hard. just saying how they could have done it better.

- food nerf is a nerf to FT builds, it was coming and I think it is justified in general. Just sad it ofsets the FT buffs by a LARGE margin.

it wasnt their intention at all, 100Nades is untouched lol

their intention was encourage the players to stay longer in kits and make builds around a certain kit and discourage kit swamping

btw.. devs read these threads, got a post deleted cause i pointed out warrior’s rifle killshot does 15k dmg on sPvP and 20-25k pve and WvW on a 10s CD and 1,500 range.. smh…

:p so far im winning! so bring it can still go higher but too lazy to re trait :P
higest on a standing mob has been around 9k

hahahahaha!! soo true.. im gonan go try that right now troll people in sPvP

JohnDied.3476:

Personally I’m not really upset with the changes because they’ll break builds. In fact, I don’t believe they will. The engineer community is an adaptive one that has come up with some crazy things to make up for the deficiencies that the engineer profession possesses (look at 100nades), I don’t think learning new key combinations will deter us. To tell the truth, the post detailing the new kit refinement is a fine example of what the community does, it analyzes our limitations and then it finds ways of optimizing our play-styles based on those limitations.

This habit of the engineer community however, has this side effect of finding out all the ways the profession was never finished or polished. So we take what we have (a buggy unfinished profession with no clear niche or purpose) and we make the most of it. Most engineers complained about the stow med-kit bug until we found a way to incorporate it into our playstile, now that the devs have found out and changed it we wan’t our crutch back.

We seem to find all these “crutches” to make up for the weaknesses the profession has as byproducts of rushed design work and implementation. So when the devs take them away, we flounder, complain, and then adapt.

That being said, Kit refinement was not a crutch. It was not something we cobbled together like static discharge builds or 100nades. It was a functional, reliable mechanic that a lot of engineers used. It wasn’t over powered, not everyone ran with it. I switched it out for speedy kits when I found that SE’s weren’t that productive to a party.

The reason why I’m upset with the change to kit refinement is because it was neither needed, nor intuitive, nor polished. It was a buggy change that has made a convenient trait (to some) into another broken thing for our profession. A part of the engineer community finds this change to serve no purpose and to inconvenience those who use it. A part of the engineer community finds that the devs have broken something that was fine, so we react.

Mostly we react in the forums (the only place to give feedback) in the hopes of the devs having some food for though. Nothing will probably go our way, and the profession will be ham-fisted into whatever the devs seem to want out of us. At least we gave our feedback.

LOVE the post and everything is very true!!! and yea, it wasn’t OP at all, it was reliable and they just gave us 1 more thing to be random about :S

just wondering cause i dont play turrents often, could you tell me some good uses of deploy able turrets ? is it to place turrents on places mobs can’t hit them or is there more ways people use it

thank you

you’re completely right and love the post

the traits is currently broken so as long as you avoid FT or EG you’re good, it was most likely broken intentionally so they could nerf in the future date and claim it as a bug fix, right now all they want to encourage people to stay longer in kits or make builds around them and discourage kit swamping, they are trying to kill our creativity but lets not let them

i really dislike that they spend hours writing code to break one of our best and most reliable traits, instead of fixing current bugs or finding ways to make turrets, gadgets more appealing to the player

SmoothHussler.6387:

OP, your post might make sense if they did the same thing for other classes whose abilities in some respects are completely off the wall in terms of balance. As it stands, since they’ve done NOTHING about it, your thesis doesn’t hold water.

If they were targeting a specific issue (100 nades – I never used it, but God forbid the engineer has something to contend with the 2 fest of the thief or 100 blades), they have punished some of us who valued diversity rather than cheap no brain builds.

100nades wasnt nerfed at all, just removed the pull factor which can easy be replaced by simply walking lol.. 100nades is still live.. they want us to stay longer in kits and make builds around them instead of having many kits and alternating skills (which like i said above, allowed for creativity )

nakoda.4213:

I think their intent was clear.

This bug fix immediately negates the ability to proc the explosion from the dbl medkit proc from kit refinement. this was a known bug which people bragged about here on the forums, even offering it as tips for how to play.

so now that their workaround no longer works, a workaround which was being openly exploited to somehow account for our profession’s “lack” of versatility, kittens are mewling because they have to actually plan their rotations in a better paced, more meaningful way rather than “button mash” or play “keyboard calisthenics” or what have you.

you can still use the same combos you could use before. just not all at once.

no really, did you ever tried switching to bomb kit before dodging before dodging so you’d leave 2 bombs or didnt you like you always had the condition removal from EG whenever you needed it ?

the only thing this encourages is for players to stay in kits longer and not look for combos, to make builds around FT or EG, that’s not fun..

builds in fact still do work, they dint change at all, what anet is forcing us to change for us is our play style.. the beauty and creativity of the class, no one played engineer the same way

NevirSayDie.6235:

google.3709:

Kit refinement, what is it was.. it was reliable you either had a short snare, small burn or heal/condition removal that you knew you could count one, and the internal cooldowns kept it balanced but now if you use one you lose the others, so now players r ether forced to bring less kits or switch less often or simply submit to the fact that they just made us even more random…

@Daigle.8497
lol you’re totally right…wtf fix gadgets and turents instead of nerfing the few good things we have

Agree with you here. It seems the best way to deal with the change is to simply use fewer kits. For example, in my current build, flamethrower kit refinement is my only condi removal apart from antidote. But if I happen to use toolkit BEFORE cleansing a condition instead of after, my cleansing drops to zero because I used my kits in the wrong order. Best to give up prybar, block, pull, and throw wrench, because as good as those are, I’d rather have a condition removal.

I haven’t done enough theorycrafting/testing/practicing to know how hard of a hit our kitmaster builds took. My initial guess is that they can still be effective but have become infinitely harder to play (they were already the hardest build in the game…) A while ago, there was a thread asking if engineers were for “elite players only.” I disagreed then, but now, I’m not so sure.

yup, and its sad because me like lots of players enjoy switching kits, setting up combos like going on bomb kit then dodging backwards leaving my 2 little bombs but as off right now you can’t do that with FT or EG anymore and if they fix the broken trait to do what its intended it will elite things like this, i loved being able to know i could remove a condition from me and my teammates by going on my EG but now i have to think twice because its gonna be either that or a second grande barrage..

it seems the reason they discourage kit swamping is because they wants us to not do combo’s simply go on a kit and stay on it for a while, and that’s sad, and boring..

a better nerf would have been to move the trait to master or grandmaster, make people tweak their build a little instead of killing their play style

it’s not the 100nades fault, its just the difficulty that they’ve had giving an identity to the class, they designed the class one way but players are playing it another, with this nerf, it shows that anet wants us to stay longer in kits and make builds aroud them, thats why they boost elixir gun( it was fine before) and flamethrower and discourage kit swamping

personally i always run 3 kits, and would use every skill but not at once since i had a variety of combos i liked to pull off, so i would stay in 1 kit for half a sec, use 1 skill and then to the next and im sure lots of people did the same, and sadly builds like this have taken a hit because of the randomness that kit refinement will become, so now either switch kits less often, bring less kits or accept the randomness

Anymras.5729:

I keep seeing people saying things about not being able to swap kits…I’m pretty sure you can still swap kits. In fact, I know you can, because I was doing it when I was figuring out the boundaries of the Kit Refinement thing for another post. I don’t even like the kitten things, but I was trying to figure out how the things worked to see why people were so kitten angry about the cooldown.

Do you mean ‘swap kits and receive the Kit Refinement from multiple kits within a few seconds?’ If so, that’s not nearly the same thing as not being able to swap kits. Besides which, you can switch kits in midair to prevent the Refinement effect for the time being. Somebody also made a post, not too long ago, about how it could, if implemented entirely and properly, actually be a boon – were the various kit refinement effects not already subject to their own cooldowns, ten seconds would be kitten amazing for at least the Elixir Gun – which even got a boost to the very thing people were annoyed about being fixed when it got bugged in a way that was favorable for us, though you wouldn’t know it by how they’ve disregarded the Elixir Gun’s buff.

I don’t even know what baffles me more, people claiming to have been stripped of some measure of their versatility due to a global cooldown on Kit Refinement being implemented, or the people whining about the Medkit being stowable, requiring them to press one more button per five seconds to extend their Swiftness effect.

I do, at least, finally understand why the devs don’t talk on these boards much – we can tell ourselves we’re constructive, and sometimes we really are, but holy kitten do we whine. We finally get buffs, and the response is “Keep the buffs, just don’t nerf Kit Refinement! Nooo!” If they told us we were getting buffs, we’d lose our kitten the moment we saw a nerf in the next patch, claiming they lied, and if they told us we were getting nerfed, we’d lose it immediately. I’m not going to lie – I’ve done the same thing as everybody else.

If we want them to communicate with us, though, I think we need to not flip out.

I’m not saying “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”

I’m saying: Be reasonable. Take the time to understand the things they’ve changed, and look into why, perhaps. Don’t beg them for an explanation – they won’t give you one. If they did, it’d make people angry.
Imagine you’re in their position – you nerf something, somebody asks for an explanation, and you give it to them. “Why was Kit Refinement nerfed?” “There were particular issues in the way it was implemented that allowed people to achieve effects we had not intended and do not consider balanced.” “But I’m not one of those people! Why can’t you just nerf them?” and so forth. Whatever they say, it will anger somebody. So they say nothing.

So…don’t ask them for an explanation. One won’t be given, for their own good. There’s no point in them giving us one. Instead, offer a rational critique, after taking time to understand the change and its intentions. Come up with logical alternatives to the disliked change. They probably still won’t say anything, but at least we’ll actually be trying to be constructive instead of just being pissy.

And yes, I know, this post probably comes off as pissy, ranty, high-horsed, rambling, or any number of other uncomplementary things. I don’t particularly mind.

Take the kitten out of it, if you want. I won’t even try to defend it – everybody’s going to be too busy being angry about the change to post anything really interesting on these forums for a little while, anyway.

Post too long so i didnt read it all lol but.. its not about just spamming internal cool down on kit refinement, its more about it being reliable, if you needed condition removal or apply short burn AoE you know you had it, but now unless you think twice before switching kits or bringing less kits the effects will be completely random and as an engi do you need any more randomness?

as for what they intent, i have the feeling that the trait was broken intentionally so people would stay longer in kits and to promote to make builds arond FT or EG, and if they dislike the result they can just change it and claim it was a “fix”

also think about it, the trait wasnt overpowered by any means and internal CD kept it well balanced.. but devs spent hours writing the code to nerf it but they wont sit down and work on gadgets, turrents or our LONG LIST of bugs lol….

nakoda.4213:

google.3709:

Azimuth.7091:

1. my build s more tanker that nades
2 i dont see my build getting nerf
3 i still going on as a beast

play style is as important as the build you use, if your build is so good let us see it pm ingame we’ll meet up, if you can out DPS 100nades or outlive my full glasscannon engi i will give 10g!

besides, if you’re build isnt gettin nerfed is because no one uses it :| lol

why do you still think the FT is intended to do as much dmg as a glasscannon nade build?

the FT is a (pow based) bunker weapon with ridiculous cond output thanks to it’s high crit and 10 hits every few seconds. it is not meant to burst like nades or even out dps nades.

you were good up to where you said playstyle is everything … yes, good, we agree.

everything else you said sounds like “narf narf narf”

how are you gonna bunker on pve now without food ? :S i dislike FT because 1 burn means nothing, get runes of baltazar and kit refinement you can keep perma AOE burns you know, i met the weapon when it was GREAT and now is merely a shadow and tbh .. i had no idea he used FT… so stop overreacting , they were talking about 100nades… lol i play condition builds too yanno

toothless.1429:

Not too dissimilar to the ele’s Evasive Arcana adjustments.
Be thankful that kit swapping doesn’t have similar cooldowns to attunement switching

Atunement switching has stupidly strong effects tho lol and can be traited to be even more stupid, like gettin protection and stability for going on earth ? remove conditions, heals and gives AoE regeneration for switching to water? all we have is a box of nails.. lmao

not even close or nearly as OP as ele switching atonement

Azimuth.7091:

1. my build s more tanker that nades
2 i dont see my build getting nerf
3 i still going on as a beast

play style is as important as the build you use, if your build is so good let us see it pm ingame we’ll meet up, if you can out DPS 100nades or outlive my full glasscannon engi i will give 10g!

besides, if you’re build isnt gettin nerfed is because no one uses it :| lol

RyuDragnier.9476:

Then the answer is obvious…get the dev people from each class to actually PLAY IT. That way they know what’s up when it comes to the class useability.

they are too busy tank and spank on their guardian to hear you

Kit refinement, what is it was.. it was reliable you either had a short snare, small burn or heal/condition removal that you knew you could count one, and the internal cooldowns kept it balanced but now if you use one you lose the others, so now players r ether forced to bring less kits or switch less often or simply submit to the fact that they just made us even more random…

@Daigle.8497
lol you’re totally right…wtf fix gadgets and turents instead of nerfing the few good things we have