action combat made mmos better lol
the way i see it it should be a mix of tactic ,reaction and dependable on the class /build you play a bit rock paper scissors.
not too fast but not too slow either.
in mmos you should play not only your self but also the class.
if the majority runs glassy builds then the game will never have personality.
bigger uptime might fix the zerking abit in wvw also.
action combat made mmos better lol
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i mean for example maybe some tyrian masteries through pvp?
why do i have to go and do jumping puzzles and gather spoons and what else random thing when im not interested in doing so to boost my account?one daily today and i finished my pvp oblications, also if i go gather spoons and jump obstacles it means im absent from pvp.
the rewards in pvp just arent good enough and people want good rewards to do stuff.
rewards are not going to make PVP fun ultimately , what makes PVP fun is great gameplay where you feel as if you are really playing your class to its potential and are making a difference in a fight, anything else is just pixels and gold.
not saying that rewards make pvp more fun but rewards are like i said carrots something to chase and motivate everyone to play pvp
action combat made mmos better lol
gw2 pvp is just a step behind first person shooters
if they increase damage it will actually become the same
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It frustrates me, that to do / get anything cool in rewards you need to either use youtube or dulfy for answers, this is mainly due to the really poor explanations in game.
I find it impossible to craft anything decent or get rewards via achievement without using a third party.
I tend to come back and do the new Living World realses, then try the achievements… then stop playing as it feels like a chore to look up each achievement … it becomes the opposite of fun.
but gw2 make dulfy rich lol
action combat made mmos better lol
I would imagine he is means the current state of warrior and DH. Portion of the community seems to believe these 2 classes are OP. While war is in a very high point of balance atm its still countered by enough to negate that concept…. and DH is countered by like…. half the meta.
DH becomes god if your team is inexperienced, counter him all you want if you team doesnt know what they are doing he will destroy everyone around and theres nothing you can do.
action combat made mmos better lol
the modern ideas are ruining mmos , older versions did things better.
lineage 2 and wow used to be a lot better in the past and almost everyone admits that.
gw1 i did play but i read so much positive stuff about it that arena net used to leave behind.
i think even runescape players liked their older game more.I miss classic titles like Zelda Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye for the N64, and in the MMO sphere, SWG pre-CU.
I think there’s a charm to some of those old games that is missing from a lot of modern games, but I’m not sure what it is. It seems to be one of those things that is elusive and hard to grasp onto in art. Perhaps it’s that things are being done too much out of a money-centric philosophy than a design-centric philosophy. Perhaps it’s just that I expect every prominent game to be a classic and only a few can be.
But I am pretty certain that there are some philosophies that took hold in the industry which are detrimental to gameplay more often than not. One of them that sticks out to me is the achievement philosophy. Achievement points, attaching achievements to everything. In Ocarina of Time, you might get a special item or reward for defeating a boss, but it was focused on practicality; getting a tunic that allows you to go back in the temple you just defeated and navigate it more easily, for example. Or getting an item that you need to progress into the next part of the game.
Nowadays, we have games where there are achievements for the sake of achievements. Achievements where literally the only “reward” is a little numerical number that might eventually add up to something (or in some games, may never mean anything other than being a numerical number). It’s more just “brag points” than anything to do with actual gameplay.
The problem with this kind of stuff is that the gameplay might be really well designed and interesting, but it can get drowned out by things like reward saturation drawing your attention to something else. I mean, if I logged into GW2 and played with the UI off and just wandered around, I might find the worlds really gorgeous and engaging, and the clock disappearing.
Instead, when I log in, I find myself asking, “What reward can I get next and how quickly can I get it?”
And I just straight up did not think that way before I started playing games like this. Games like this seriously affected how I think about games and not in a way that I’m happy about.
One of the things that I believe SWG pre-CU got right in the beginning, even though many people thought it was dumb and annoying, was the time it took to get around. On the one hand, it meant you could spend 20-30 minutes just traveling to the location you wanted to do your activity at. On the other hand, it meant you had to slow down. You couldn’t rush through the game and it was a lot harder to become engrossed in efficiency. The pace meant you had more time to do that fundamental thing that MMOs get called multiplayer for: Socializing.
In most modern MMOs, the pace is so fast-moving that you almost need to be on VOIP with other people if you want to get a word in while playing. A lot of activities simply don’t have the space in them to stop and type things out.
copying wow from wotlk and after is the biggest mistake mmo devs do.
they forget that wotlk was the hype but also the downfall of wow.
wow used to be a lot better game in vanilla and burning crusade.
the biggest disappointment for me though was lineage trying to become wow
they gave so many skills to classes to fix their weaknesses and also streamlined leveling by forcing you to do daily instances to level up.
mmos need firstly good combat and socialization to be interesting all those new features should not be the main focus
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the modern ideas are ruining mmos , older versions did things better.
lineage 2 and wow used to be a lot better in the past and almost everyone admits that.
gw1 i did play but i read so much positive stuff about it that arena net used to leave behind.
i think even runescape players liked their older game more.
lineage 2 tried to become wow and wow tried to become dora the explorer
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Alright let’s keep it familiar then… Gw1 had an awesome pvp scene with hardly any rewards. But people played it because it was a good game.
That’s what anet never understood: players don’t play a game for rewards. They play it for fun in the first place. Rewards have always been and will always be secondary after gameplay.That isn’t true at all, in gw1, u needed to control hall of heroes to gain access to end game pve content (with the most lucrative farm), however by winning and holding halls you got access to the chest, which dropped the most expensive skins in the game, along with other incredibly useful and tradeable items like the guild hall sigil, required to form a guild hall. Then they even further upped the rewards with zkeys, another form of PvP progression that made a ton of money.
In the highly competitive days nobody, but the very elite of this game would hold the hall of heroes. Also GvG didn`t have this many rewards, yet was even more popular. And you had all the other PvP gamemodes being played as well.
You can`t take this very rare loot as an example. That would be like saying the average PvE guy will come and play PvP because the top 50 gets some fancy loot. This isn`t the reason an average person plays. Also, while this would seem like an incentive in the eyes of today`s GW2 PvP you have to consider, that in it`s prime time GW1 was insanely heavily played. More than GW2 ever even came remotely close to at it`s peaks.
Also Z-Keys were indeed a nice rewards, but they hardly gave as much value as anything compared in the same time and effort with PvE. Sure it was nice to have but I`d say it was about on the same level as playing PvP for rewards in GW2 now is.maybe gw1 didnt have so many things to keep players detached from pvp,
at the time a non pvp enthusiast has no reason to do pvp it s waste of time and energy
the progressions is on based on world achievements and stories.in simple terms game offers better rewards when you dont pvp so why bother.
although i do agree that gw2 combat would attract more people if the combat was more pleasant.
gw1 had classic combat which means stand and cast , tab targeting gets a bad rap lately but overall it might of being a better system for mmos ,it was more relaxing and clearer.
Why you would play PvP when you can get progress in PvE? Because you genuently enjoy playing the game and don`t need an achievement right in your face for every little thing you do? Why would you call it a waste when you are having fun with your friends? Just because you don`t get as fancy a glowing sword as someone else has? Because you care about an imaginary achievement number?
I don`t think you got my point there…
are you done with cherry picking ?
where did i state anything about shiny swords?
i said game disconnects you from pvp because theres many stuff to do in pve that make no sense like getting masteries.
ok then i guess me and so many others being forced to do jumping puzzles and other nonsensical stuff is good for pvp.
also i dont have any friends , they all left the game.
next time maybe bother read the whole threat than just the title cause you give replies to things i didnt even state.
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Device, League of Legends is a moba,
GW2 is an mmo, and usually in mmos you do various activities.if they dont give good rewards in pvp then people will choose a different path to advance their accounts its simple as that.
at the time pve gives good stuff and it also has almost endless progression with fractals ,raids and story areas.
in pvp once the season ends everything falls apart.
i would rather get rewards like masteries from pvp rather than go find dive locations and do jumping puzzles.
generally those who want to pvp will pvp more , i dont see how this is bad for the game.Alright let’s keep it familiar then… Gw1 had an awesome pvp scene with hardly any rewards. But people played it because it was a good game.
That’s what anet never understood: players don’t play a game for rewards. They play it for fun in the first place. Rewards have always been and will always be secondary after gameplay.
maybe gw1 didnt have so many things to keep players detached from pvp,
at the time a non pvp enthusiast has no reason to do pvp it s waste of time and energy
the progressions is on based on world achievements and stories.
in simple terms game offers better rewards when you dont pvp so why bother.
although i do agree that gw2 combat would attract more people if the combat was more pleasant.
gw1 had classic combat which means stand and cast , tab targeting gets a bad rap lately but overall it might of being a better system for mmos ,it was more relaxing and clearer.
action combat made mmos better lol
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Device, League of Legends is a moba,
GW2 is an mmo, and usually in mmos you do various activities.
if they dont give good rewards in pvp then people will choose a different path to advance their accounts its simple as that.
at the time pve gives good stuff and it also has almost endless progression with fractals ,raids and story areas.
in pvp once the season ends everything falls apart.
i would rather get rewards like masteries from pvp rather than go find dive locations and do jumping puzzles.
generally those who want to pvp will pvp more , i dont see how this is bad for the game.
action combat made mmos better lol
We. Don’t. Need. Rewards.
We. Need. A. Good. Game.
Rewards are always temporary.
sure but i dont have a lot of faith that they can make pvp fun,
the only time this game wasnt about insane burst was in beta,
it had horrible balance then but i think it was at better direction.pvpers here are used of the current play style and it wont be easy to reverse this
People new to the game prefer bunker meta because they feel like they are doing something, once they learn the game they hate bunker meta because they know they aren’t doing anything.
Burst meta is better.
this pvp in dragon nest is great in my opinion , might seem to much uptime for gw2 but you get the idea the combat time in gw2 maybe is just too short,
they have to start stealing some cool stuff from other games.
ofc dragon nest is not as good game as gw2 in general but pvp nice.
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I hate multilevel mazes like HoT maps especially this new LS map, it’s horrible! I hope they change this in next xpac.
I never explored HoT on my chars, leveled them all in wvw. Thats how I enjoy those maps.
didnt explore them either only the first two zones
theres so many other things to do that i cant dedicate time on hot maps
action combat made mmos better lol
We. Don’t. Need. Rewards.
We. Need. A. Good. Game.
Rewards are always temporary.
sure but i dont have a lot of faith that they can make pvp fun,
the only time this game wasnt about insane burst was in beta,
it had horrible balance then but i think it was at better direction.
pvpers here are used of the current play style and it wont be easy to reverse this
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I am all up for carrots, as long as it involves wins and not sitting afk in the match.
well if it involves player kills or other active gameplay it wont promote afking
action combat made mmos better lol
i mean exploring is cool for those who like it but for me personally i have no mood to spend 3 hours to find a vista or a mastery, game is forcing me to go to youtube.
also those who say that all mmos have youtube guides yes they have guides for gold farming , boss encounters and crafting mostly.
action combat made mmos better lol
i mean for example maybe some tyrian masteries through pvp?
why do i have to go and do jumping puzzles and gather spoons and what else random thing when im not interested in doing so to boost my account?
one daily today and i finished my pvp oblications, also if i go gather spoons and jump obstacles it means im absent from pvp.
the rewards in pvp just arent good enough and people want good rewards to do stuff.
action combat made mmos better lol
well i use it a lot when the location of the objective seems near but i cant find it i have to use youtube cause other wise it takes a lot of time
action combat made mmos better lol
I find I only need to use YouTube when I’m grinding achievements/MPs/JPs, particularly in maps like Tangled Depths. I’ve never found the need to use it for playing the story/normal game (occasionally for map completion, I may need to confirm something – but usually I just bumble around and enjoy the journey).
Disclaimer: I’ve not started Draconis Mons just yet, but I’ve done all previous maps.
draconis is very confusing im actually watching youtube videos at the moment cause i find exploring stuff a lot time boring
action combat made mmos better lol
i cant find anything lately without youtube in new areas and i dont think it a good thing , i wanna play the game not search for the exact paths of story npcs and vistas.
the good thing is that its beneficial to the community that does guides, but as a player i find it a bit tedious.
i hope new expansion has simple maps and directs the challenge somewhere else like more difficult mobs or something.
the less dulfy i will watch to find stuff the better
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If they did it, the arena would have to be small enough that a character couldn’t fully disengage. otherwise any class with good mobility would be awful to fight.
they can put 3-4 types
action combat made mmos better lol
and how are new players that test the game gonna be impressed with the game if they go try pvp with core traits if they will be weaker than elite ones?
i actually have a friend that wants to test the game and he says he is interested in pvp.
i speak only the truth, i said to him that he might not like pvp in this game but if he wants a good game in general gw2 is a good choice.
i cant imagine someone newcomer coming to to this game and adapt with classic specializations at the moment especially a guy that didnt play a lot mmos before.
solution is either buff core traits for newcomers or nerf the elite ones so they dont get absolutely stomped.
action combat made mmos better lol
breaking the balance is welcomed from me as long as they increase the combat uptime and give more options to tankier and support builds at the time 90% of the good players run glassy builds because defense is not really that important in this game
action combat made mmos better lol
i love pvp games that have uptime so i will check the pvp damage before buying it
if the damage stays so high i will go play something else
action combat made mmos better lol
they could do it for fun and some rewards
game could focus on one vs one the aoe damage is insane in this game
and 5v5 balance wasnt successful eitherThey could do it for fun, but people would still complain.
let them complain lol we already all complained about something in this game anyway
action combat made mmos better lol
balancing 1 class v another or 2v2 does 1 thing, it stunts choice as you have to simplify the skill options to a number that allows this balancing/quantification – see wow for where that goes. On the other hand there is the paper-stone-scissor approach where you dont balance but you offer counter balance. See Eve for how this model works (massive choice and diverse gameplay)
rock paper scissors is actually a good idea
everyone feels rewarded for playing something
and classes/specializations dont end up playing in a similar way
action combat made mmos better lol
they could do it for fun and some rewards
game could focus on one vs one the aoe damage is insane in this game
and 5v5 balance wasnt successful either
action combat made mmos better lol
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same have human guard the only one with world exploration and dont want to play that race any more
action combat made mmos better lol
that could of being done with the existing builds
no new specializations will save pvp
they could of buffed the current ones
action combat made mmos better lol
if devs are reading this its unacceptable to leave your returning players hanging like this,
i returned with very good mood and you just ruined it.
what was so difficult about leaving the achievement active?
action combat made mmos better lol
so what does that mean all my effort gone wasted?
lol not only we cant farm the achievements faster because of daily walls now season is over and we cant continue.
thanks arena net thanks a lot.
having something to aim for and not being able to continue from one day to the next feels great.
action combat made mmos better lol
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hello daily league participator elite stuck at 8/9
i play the 3 matches a day but it seems i cannot get any more achievements
its stuck
is there any reason behind this?
action combat made mmos better lol
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the game must make casual players feel like they belong to pvp,
a skilled player should prevail ofc
but casuals that try to pvp and get 3 shotted eventually quit the game,
the game is not enjoyable with all this damage,
i kill people and i dont enjoy it, i feel like have tricked them instead of outplaying them. dont also forget that some people have higher latency or bad computers and that means instant destruction .
they shall give combat more uptime more character to classes and stop caring about capture point balance.
a win or loose comes from mmr anyway.
action combat made mmos better lol
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story cant appeal to everyone , i personally dont like being the commander and the main character but i can live with it
action combat made mmos better lol
you dont know how many people started swearing at me for playing toxic builds,
i dont think they mean it though , its the heat of the moment.
the only reason i play toxic builds its to counter toxic builds.
action combat made mmos better lol
how about making pvp fun to play?
at the time pvp is not fun while playing, its just satisfying after you won a match.
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e sports ruins games
even street fighter failed
action combat made mmos better lol
fishing and other mini activities would be cooler than mount
action combat made mmos better lol
maybe if they get sponsored by someone who knows?
action combat made mmos better lol
if they make pvp look and play amazing i wont mind the loses
action combat made mmos better lol
the answer is esports.
the game took a moba direction instead of a mmo direction.
lets hope with the removal of esports that the game will take different path.this game should of had more combat uptime than wow , not less, it would of made fights seem epic and even produce better youtube videos to attract new people.
how are people gonna be interested in the game when they see fights lasting 5 seconds and have no idea what is happening?
also wvw could be a lot more interesting but it was all about the zerk.
gw2 should take examples from games like dragons nest if they want to make pvp mmo style in my opinion,
its not bad to steal ideas from other mmos , blizzard does it all the time.i think arena net is a good company but unfortunately they fell to the esports trend trap.
Fights do not last just 5 sec (unless you are afk) and i dont think making it even slower is the way to go. Do you even know yourself what are you writing? Just throwing around few cliche words like candy. Moba direction, mmo direction, esports trap …. Also making esports big bad wolf and now that it is gone, world is safe and everything will be alright.
In my opinion what killed PvP is that it should be more separate to the rest of the game from start, since it has different needs, with its own developer team and funding, “expansions”.
im sorry for trying to explain what i feel with words and examples next time ill send drawings
action combat made mmos better lol
Scarlet was the best character in the lore
action combat made mmos better lol
the answer is esports.
the game took a moba direction instead of a mmo direction.
lets hope with the removal of esports that the game will take different path.
this game should of had more combat uptime than wow , not less, it would of made fights seem epic and even produce better youtube videos to attract new people.
how are people gonna be interested in the game when they see fights lasting 5 seconds and have no idea what is happening?
also wvw could be a lot more interesting but it was all about the zerk.
gw2 should take examples from games like dragons nest if they want to make pvp mmo style in my opinion,
its not bad to steal ideas from other mmos , blizzard does it all the time.
i think arena net is a good company but unfortunately they fell to the esports trend trap.
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i was running this game with gt530 wont be a huge deal for consoles
action combat made mmos better lol
aint this gonna destroy economy?
action combat made mmos better lol
I like the way this whole topic has shifted.
The problem with nerfing those entry-level builds (LB Power Ranger, 5-Traps DH, Vault thief and whatnot) is, that they won’t see any play at all then. Those builds dont work to begin with in higher level play. Plus there will ALWAYS be those gimmicky entry-level builds that just maximize damage to pick off unaware players.New players usually don’t have the focus/experience to know what is going on in larger fights anyway, so they tend to miss very important stuff. They tend to tunnel-vision, look at the skillbar a lot, neglect the minimap, not understand enemy builds etc.etc.
You can of course just nerf all of those builds and force new players to only play meta-builds as well, but that would be a poor choice for various reasons as well.
the damage must be toned down in general they need to find the balance between tension and combat uptime, at the time tension >>> uptime .
theres not enough brawling in the game they should put capture points into second fate and make pvp about pvp not about who catches who unaware.
action combat made mmos better lol
They really should not cater to complainers. Anet used to do things in game that were fun and exciting. Anyone from the BWE’s knows what I’m talking about. Even the GW1 beta’s were hilarious. I would love to see more of that in the game. I vaguely remember one april fools they promoted a combat soldier profession. Of course it was a joke, but still was funny.
this , developers should design the game not the players
action combat made mmos better lol
4 more days for my legendary and then i stop pvp
i cant stand this pace any more
time to become pro at fractals
action combat made mmos better lol
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I kinda get why OP is trying to say here. Now, personally i dont have any issues with DH. I think they are actually amongst the more balanced classes right now. Good Teamfight and 1v1 capabilites. Solid, CD-based defensives, so they can’t endlessly outstain damage just with passives.
I think the main issue why DHs are so obnoxiously strong in lower tier plays, is one the OP has mentioned many times in previous posts. Most of their pressure comes from static, on-point skills. It is a complete mystery to me, but people on lower ranks NEVER EVER leave points or even kite properly with LoS and whatnot for that matter.
No matter how much the node gets SPAMMED with aoe, all participating players relentlessly try to stay on point, rather tanking a bazillion damage than to give the enemy team that 2-3 ticks, even if that wouldn’t let them fullcap it.
exactly how is it my fault if people dont get how to avoid traps
its a l2p issue from my side if my team cant dodge
also its not an ideal way to welcome new players with a nuclear bomb in the face
things need to be toned down not just for dragon hunters but from my point of view they are the most obvious culprit
action combat made mmos better lol
Everyone quit due to the balance changes, or the lack of. We played the same boring specs vs the same boring specs for at least 6 months. And we wait eagerly for a balance patch, and nothing changes at all.
Its like a kid at christmas gets super excited about whats to come because he never gets given anything except at christmas.
Then for christmas he gets literally nothing. It makes people demoralised and give up on the game.
So now that the game is actually the most balanced its been in ages, you could argue most balanced ever, youre complaining about it being boring? Its time to stop man, youll never be happy with the game.
Just because the game is balanced doesn’t mean it’s fun. If everyone can kill anyone with little to no effort it’s no fun. If passive traits and procs do half the work it isn’t fun. If you barely need to time your skills but just keep spamming your rotation until someone dies it isn’t fun.
^^ this id rather more class distinction more characteristic skills even if game felt more unbalanced
action combat made mmos better lol