Empty Zones has been a long-running concern for the devs, and the Dynamic Event system seems to have kind of faltered in popularity. I have a proposal that could help with both, and it involves another neglected game mechanic: Skills Points.
1. Open up Skill Points as a currency to buy new or existing items. It doesn’t matter what, really, as long as it’s something that Players want.
2. Increase the XP reward for completing Dynamic Events, so that doing Dynamic Event chains are the “most efficient” way of gaining XP.
That’s it. There is no #3.
I don’t mind temp content, but I missed out on some LS content and now, even though I’m participating, I feel like I don’t really know what’s going on. I don’t know any of these NPCs that evidently know me—Rox, Braham, Marjory, and Kasmeer—and I don’t understand the references that are being made to previous LS content.
It’s all well and good that I’ve missed some chapters and the content therein, but I should be able to find out in-game what exactly it was that I missed and how it affected the story as a whole.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I think most of the reason for that, though, falls to poor storytelling rather than any design flaw in the LW. I think they’ve got a good grip on the mechanics of the LW approach, but they really need to work on their presentation and storytelling technique.
When lore is progressed by removing or changing content in order to replace it, the narrative becomes disconnected from the player experience and becomes forced, which they seem to think enhances immersion but I think it’s easy to argue has the opposite effect.
That is the whole point of a Living World. It’s a “chain of events”. It happens with or without you, just like a Living World does. The LW approach makes the game world a dynamic place where things change, develop, and grow over time. You can be a part of that if you want to, but it’s going to happen whether you show up or not. Because that’s the whole point.
More importantly, though, there are just massive compatibility issues between the LW and the PS. They need to more or less get rid of one so that the other one can work better. Personally, I like the idea of the PS more than the idea of the LW and think that most story content should be permanent and should unfold from a character perspective rather than being forced onto the world by Anet’s development schedule. But, if they decide they just love the LW exactly how it is now, then they need to make major changes to the PS if not remove it altogether.
I sure hope they decide they love LW exactly how it is now. I don’t much care for the static world design of literally every other MMO ever.
I haven’t had any compatibility issues between LW and PS, either. It sounds like you have a very specific idea of what you want the game to be. I’m glad it’s not up to you, though, because I like this LW design so much more than what you’ve described.
Don’t let this thread die, its living story that needs to die if it continue being temporary contents only.
2 weeks of temporary content,play it or miss it forever is not a good idea.
It seems arenanet is trying to be different for the sake of being different.
Living story should be permanent so that even if u miss 2 months of content,you can take ur time to clear it and catch up with the rest of the players.
Taking that into consideration,make the living story non-zergy so that 2 months later when not much ppl is doing it,it can still be completed by small groups.
No. No thank you. Not for me.
Living World is awesome. The world happens with or without you. That’s what it means to play in a Living World. You might miss some stuff sometimes. Big deal. There’s new stuff coming out all the time.
I like the temporary content.
I like that Living Story is not permanent.
I like what ANet is doing I hope they continue to develop the game just as they have been.
I just think the story needs to unfold from the perspective of the player instead of being forced on all players simultaneously (which actually just breaks immersion instead of enhancing it), and creating a massive drain on development resources. This can best be accomplished by dismantling their current vision of the LW and instead focus on expanding the story through new permanent content and sequential updates to the PS, which would include adding back in a lot of the instanced content that was removed in the past. The dynamic part of the world exists within the DE system which needs further polish and refinement.
Instead of having 2 highly polished systems that work well together they have 3 highly unpolished systems that don’t work well together. To that end, this is really just a band-aid fix and I don’t agree that temporary content has much positive going for it unless it only comprises a small percentage of new content.
That would indeed be a complete dismantling of the current LW vision.
So… no thanks. I like the Living World. It happens with or without me. “Expired Content” like dungeons from previous content updates would only belong in Fractals. Because that’s what the Fractals are.
The system works great for me. I like it a lot, and I think it’s awesome that ANet has the balls to do something so controversial in order to create something so unique.
I just think the story needs to unfold from the perspective of the player instead of being forced on all players simultaneously (which actually just breaks immersion instead of enhancing it)
This sentence is kind of a mess, and I’m not sure what exactly you think is “breaking immersion”. Can you elaborate?
Shriketalon nailed it. +1, bro.
Nice Fractals of the Mist Update. I’m sure the game needed it.
The last update we had that I really enjoyed was Bazaar of the Four Winds. That was pretty cool stuff. Parts of Queen’s Jubilee was pretty good, too. I pretty much ignore Scarlet content now, though. It’s been about 4 months since we’ve had an update that interested me.
More and more I struggle to find reason to log in. Even my compulsive daily chore-list isn’t reason enough sometimes.
I know what you’re thinking: “But bro! What would it take to reignite your interest in GW2, bro?”
Well. I guess:
1. Wrap up the Scarlet arc. Poor villain design and a story that hinges on this one flawed character is really killing the current Living Story arc for me. Let’s wrap it up and move on. Storytelling is an art form all its own, and improvements to storytelling would have a tremendous impact on overall enjoyment and satisfaction.
2. Independently balance PvP, WvW, and PvE environments. The strategies, needs, and play styles of these three game theaters are just too different to be balanced as one piece. Really need to just make a hard divide, and do independent balance passes for each environment. I suspect that if this were easy to do, it would already be happening. Even though it may be a larger challenge than most players would suspect, it seems to be an increasingly necessary shift.
3. Open up a new PvE map area. Maguuma Wastes, the Crystal Desert, or any other sizable area of map would do. The community has been literally begging for this forever.
4. Open up new weapons for all professions. You want a shot in the arm to revitalize interest in GW2? This would do it. This would literally make every profession brand new again. Sure, this would cause mass chaos in all aspects of the game… and wouldn’t that be kind of awesome? This might absolutely break balance for a while, but the excitement of discovery, experimentation and making it work would really engage your players like nothing else ever can.
Seriously.
Don’t be afraid of breaking something as long as you’re giving players cool new toys to play with when you do it. You will always be balancing professions. Please don’t wait until it’s “perfect” before giving us new ways to play.
5. Player “homes” and Guild Halls. Either. Both. Give it.
There have been several great improvements and additions to the game these past few months. Wallet, Magic Find fix, Ascended Weapons, etc. And devs have been really awesome about communicating with players and implementing player requests (account-bound Infinite Gathering Tools, for example). So I still have great confidence in the future of GW2. Just… not really feeling it right now.
I spend 50% of my time in the mist and 50% roaming
God that must be boring. You should try playing the game some time. It’s pretty cool.
Too long.
Didn’t read.
Be more concise.
I don’t care about her motives. I just want them to wrap up her story arc so we can get rid of her and move on to something interesting.
I really like the idea of the Living Story, but I have never been able to get into this Scarlet Rampage story arc. There’s not actually much story going on, and while I like the Marjory and Kasmeer interactions, anything having to do with Scarlet just turns me off.
The only times I’m not bored by Scarlet is when I’m annoyed by Scarlet. ANet really goofed when they built the Living Story around one single character. Everything hinges on Scarlet, so they can’t adjust her without wrecking the narrative (such as it is).
The post on why the current Living Story isn’t working is a much longer post — I won’t get into it here.
I’ll just say that I hope Scarlet kills Logan Thackeray before she’s done. I never want to hear from either of those characters ever again.
Ever.
EVER.
EVER.
This is a moot point if there is no way for (newer) players to find out what happened in the game world in the past. There should be a way for players to learn (or be reminded) of Living World stories that happened in the past.
I really like the idea of other players being the primary source of that information. Tales and stories of the past. Ask your guild, “anyone know who this Scarlet chick is?” Sure, you’ll get a mad ramble of responses, some mix-and-match of truth, personal bias, and speculation, and I think that’s awesome. REALLY awesome. In any case, there are several ways for a new player to get “up to speed” on the recent events in Tyria.
For example, if a player participates in The Nightmare Within without any prior knowledge of previous Living World stories, that player will have no clue who the nasty sylvari lady is, or who Marjory and Kasmeer are, and will have absolutely no idea who these “Molten Alliance” monsters are who pop up as hallucinations.
If there is a passing reference to Queen’s Jubilee, there is no way for players to find out what “Queen’s Jubilee” was about, without resorting to asking other players (which may yield biased or incorrect information), or consulting an outside source (like the GW2 Wiki).
It’s always like that with games like these. I didn’t bother to read the “Complete and Historical Annals of The Lands of Tyria” when I installed GW2 on my computer. I didn’t even bother to research the GW1 lore. It didn’t make my entrance into the game any less interesting. I enjoyed meeting these mysterious new people, and finding out what they’re about for myself. Mystery and exploration is a HUGE draw for a lot of MMO players. For players like me, not knowing is at least as much fun as knowing. Often, it’s more fun.
Unless players already witnessed the start of the Living Story, there is no way they are ever going to be invested in it, because there is currently no way to get them up to speed.
No part of that sentence is true.
This also breaks the immersion of the game world, because after a change in the open world landscape, the new content is indistinguishable from the content that has been there since launch… Players will only get a sense that Tyria has an evolving history, if they are made aware of how much the world changes, and has already changed in the past.
When a new player enters the world, everything is new, no matter how much it has changed. Players will learn, as they explore and interact with NPCs and other players, that the world has changed over the years, and will continue to change. None of that has to break immersion.
What the Living Story needs is something like the scrying pool in Guild Wars: Eye of the North, or the campaign mission books from that game. Or some other interface to learn of the in-game history – while in-game. The content of such an interface could be brief write-ups of the Living Story, as well as the cutscenes and cinematics developed for those past chapters.
I’d love to see some kind of record of the history of the game in an in-game form for people to enjoy. Personally, I think the Priory is the perfect place for that kind of thing. We don’t need to invent some wacky new game mechanic to relive the past. It’s already there at the Priory.
I also think it would be really cool if ANet adjusted NPC dialogue in those areas where the most dramatic changes have happened, just to give a sense that they are aware of the changing world around them.
I’ll take it further than that. I’d love to see people like Ellen Kiel and Logan Thackeray get old and retire. How cool would it be if, a few years from now, we could go to that bar in Divinity’s Reach and find a crippled, blind, and half-crazy Logan Thackeray telling tales of his glory days as the Captain of the Queen’s Guard?
Or if those kids running around unsupervised in Lion’s Arch grew up and got jobs and became proper NPCs?
How cool would that be?
(edited by jsduke.6537)
No thanks. It’s a Living World. Things happen and then the world moves on. That stuff is in the past now, where it belongs. There are remnants floating around, and stories and trophies and such. As it should be.
We don’t need to be able to play everything that ever happened in the history of the game. The story moves forward and so do we. Let it go. Move on.
This is the wrong forum for this topic.
ANet has to make money to support the game. They make money from Gem Store purchases. They have publicly declared that they do not want to create a pay-to-win system, and that Gem Store purchases will be largely cosmetic items and convenience items.
So yeah. ANet is going to put new skins in the Gem Store all the time. For money. So we can continue to play the game without a monthly fee.
That’s how this works. It’s not a bad thing.
You would like to see more skinsets added to the game outside of the Gem Store? Me too. I would like that too.
In future, maybe take a more polite approach. You’re more likely to get what you want that way.
I think we’re pretty unlikely to get any ranged weapons, rifle and pistol in particular. Most likely, I think, would be one-hand melee weapons. Sword, probably mace too. Maybe extend Axe to OH. Probably won’t get Greatsword or Hammer any time soon, either, but you never know.
Which weapons do I want the most? Pistol and Sword, please. Very please.
The point is this thing is unbounded. You can be hit a bunch of times and it keeps stacking up the might. Maybe the duration is a bit low, but with no cooldown this is a good interesting trait.
You can be hit a bunch of times… while <25% HP.
I can’t speak for other Necros, but if I get hit “a bunch of times” while <25%, it doesn’t matter how many stacks of Might I get because I just died.
Like I said, it works while in DS.
It’s not lost on me. However, now you are stacking multiple variables before this trait becomes actually beneficial.
<25% HP and in DS and Enough Life Force to absorb being hit “a bunch of times”
Realistically, you’re talking about 3-5 stacks of Might at a time when you are almost dead. No matter how you slice it, it’s Too Little Too Late. This might be a decent Master level minor, but at GM tier we should expect better.
We will talk today about changing duration on weakening shroud instead of cooldown .
Also we have some plans for death magic including merging reanimated with death nova, and moving Protection of the Horde to be a major trait, and then reworking the minors in this line. This kind of change is not going to happen for dec 10 for 3 reasons.
1) testing time
2) implementation time
3) most importantly: if we rework this we want to make sure it is correct the second time around so we will take our time deciding on the “right” design.Point 3 is something I’m happy to discuss here to list some ideas and break down some pros and cons.
Thanks,
Jon
You brought up the issue that both of the Death GM traits are minion traits. Have you considered how merging Reanimator with Death Nova would effect that situation? How would that merger effect your options if you wanted to move or remove either of those GM traits? It seems like it would make more sense to merge it with Minion Master, I think.
For Death reworks in general:
*Death line currently focuses on Toughness, Boon Duration, Staves and Minions.
*Minor Traits should be focused on Toughness and Boon related buffs — independent of Staff or Minion skills so that they have utility to greater variety of builds.
*Major Traits should see an even distribution of Minion skills and Staff skills, especially at GM Trait tier.
*Consider adding/improving synergy between Staff and Minion skills.
The point is this thing is unbounded. You can be hit a bunch of times and it keeps stacking up the might. Maybe the duration is a bit low, but with no cooldown this is a good interesting trait.
You can be hit a bunch of times… while <25% HP.
I can’t speak for other Necros, but if I get hit “a bunch of times” while <25%, it doesn’t matter how many stacks of Might I get because I just died.
I think all of these following changes are more or equally useful in PvE than PvP. with the last two being very PvE focused.
- Curses VIII – Banshee’s Wail. Increase cooldown reduction from 15% to 20%.
- Death 5 – Reanimator. Decreased cooldown from 30s to 15s.
- Death 25 – Deadly Strength. Increased conversion from 5% to 10%.
- Blood Magic 25 – Blood to Power. Decreased health threshold from 90% to 75%. Increase Power from 90 to 120.
- Soul Reaping II. Vital Persistence. Increased reduction of life force drain from 25% to 50%.
No… no I really don’t think so.
Banshee’s Wail reduction shaves 1 or 2 seconds off of skills that already sit at 30s CDs. The difference may show up on spreadsheets, but it’s not going to effect gameplay in any meaningful way.
Reanimator is almost universally reviled by the Necro community. We want it to go away. You get no kudos for buffing a trait that nobody wants. In fact, this “buff” actually makes it worse for situations where minion control is crucial.
Deadly Strength isn’t bad, but it’s still locked at the top of a terribly broken Death trait line. I run Death 20 so I can get Staff traits, and even I can’t justify spending 5 more points to get this trait.
Blood to Power is fine, I guess. I don’t run Blood in PvE though, so I wouldn’t know. I used to run Blood, but abandoned it for Staff Traits. As I understand it, siphon got hardnerfed since then so I may never actually go back to it.
Vital Persistence offers no defensive benefit at all. This trait allows me to stay in DS a few seconds longer, and it only does that if I’m not taking damage. It also extends the amount of time that I’m unable to heal. The only thing this trait offers is longer access to DS skills, but the CDs on those skills are OBSCENE. What’s the point of staying in DS once all of my skills are on CD?
Most of the Death Shroud buffs trigger on entry or exit, so staying in DS longer actually makes it less useful. Effective DS utility is like weapon-swap traits. You want to get in and out as often as possible to proc the effects as often as possible. The last thing you want to do is stay in DS.
No, these changes offer no substantial improvement to PvE Necro. Really.
PVE Necro Notes
Some internal thoughts on the discussion about Necromancers.
Curses
This line just has a lot of good traits.This is totally worth a discussion, but at the end of the day all master tier traits in this line are overshadowed by Terror which is the real problem.
I really don’t use Fear at all. All of the bosses are immune to Fear, and in group play, making the target run away just kitten es off anyone who was trying to melee it. I don’t use any of the Master tier traits in my build. I don’t run Corruption, Spectral, or Warhorn so all 3 of those are useless to me, and I avoid using Fear as much as possible, so Terror is right out.
Instead I run Hemophilia and Weakening Shroud as my Adept and Master traits. I use Withering Precision as my GM trait. Not because I like it, but because I don’t use a scepter, so Lingering Curse is literally useless as well.
Yeah, Curses has a lot of great traits in it… but not much synergy. It’s kind of a grab-bag of loose ends.
Dhuumfire
We know there are problems here, but again this condition helps those conditionmancers get over the top and is really what brought them into play in a lot of parts of the game. I think the real problems with this trait are:
1) Having to put 30 points into the power line as a condition necro.
2) Requiring crit on a 30 point trait in a line that does nothing to improve crit chance.We talk about a lot of different versions of this trait including moving to master tier, making it on hit instead of on crit, and reworking the numbers to making it more reliable to use and to counter.
I don’t use Dhuumfire. I did try it out when it was released, but found it wasn’t worth it. I have a really hard time justifying spending more than 20pts in Spite because Siphoned Power is such a bullkitten trait. If I did drop 30 into Spite, I would be getting Close to Death instead. Dhuumfire really adds nothing useful against trash mobs that die fast anyway, and in Boss fights, my Fire contribution is usually irrelevant compared to what the other professions can do.
All of this back and forth could upset a lot of balance, but if this moved down to master tier Terror would almost certainly be moving up to grandmaster to accommodate. At least then condition necromancers would be 20/30/x/x/x, which just makes so much more sense.
I already run 20/30/XXX as a condi necro. Dhuumfire just is not tempting to me as a PvE player. Those other 20 points can go into Death for a very effective Staff or Minion build. They can go into Blood for more sustain through siphon-healing. Or it can go into Soul Reaping for more Life Force/Death Shroud utility.
When you look at it that way, I don’t know why a condi necro would take Spite to 30. It seems like a highly specialized build that gives up a lot of versatility.
Death Magic
On the defensive side, the Blood and Soul Reaping necros are starting to feel pretty good. The Death line on the other hand is too focused on minions. From Reanimator, which we have heard over and over feels bad as a minor trait, to the fact that 1/3 of the remaining traits are minion traits, to finally the fact that both grandmaster traits are minion traits.
I absolutely agree. Reanimator needs to go away, or get swapped out with one of the Adept Traits to make it optional. I hate that I have to take Reanimator to get to my Staff traits, and Protection of the Horde is a joke, but I have no choice if I want effective Mark utility.
I want to say again that it sounds like this “balance pass” stuff is PvP-centric, and that very little consideration is given to PvE play. I know that profession balance is more important in PvP, and that’s probably why it comes across that way. But it feels like the attitude is that we’re going to take great pains to carefully balance PvP… and the PvE players can just deal with it.
I’m quite sure that is not the approach you are taking, but when we get balance passes like this, it’s hard not to feel like the PvE issues are being neglected in favor of PvP issues. Maybe it’s time to stop pretending that they are not two separate things, and start balancing them independently.
I like the living world system as it is now. Maybe extend the time frame of temporary content a bit so that people have a larger window to experience/complete it before it goes away.
But please do let it go away.
Temporary content is part of a Living World. Things change. New things come, and old things go. That’s what it means to play in a Living World and I think it’s awesome.
You might miss out on some content sometimes. Big deal. There’s more new content coming all the time.
I feel they are leveling the playing field with this patch. Sure, I hoped for more specifically for necromancers, but I can understand if they don’t want major changes to one profession when they are trying to level the others.
You know, I think you’re right. This balance patch isn’t about Necro at all, but they couldn’t very well give us nothing. From what I’ve seen in other forums, Elementalists and Guardians are rejoicing, Mesmers are in the same boat with us, Warriors are QQ all over everywhere, and Thieves are organizing a ragequit.
Maybe we should count our blessings that we got ignored this time around.
PVE NECRO REACTION
LOVE the way you brought this to the community for our feedback. Huge kudos to the ANet team!
It seems like most of these balance patches are PvP oriented. I know that balance is a crucial factor there, but for a PvE player, I’m just baffled by some of the changes that happen in these patches. It’s actually no big deal most of the time, but it does concern me a little that PvE just doesn’t seem to get the same consideration as PvP in balance patches. Are these patches coming from the PvP dev team? Is that how it works?
Here’s my general reaction from a PvE PoV:
Necromancer:
- Mark of Blood. Removed 1 bleed in PvP only.
Don’t care.
- Signet of Spite: Removed one bleed.
Meh. Kind of sucks to lose that stack of Bleeding, but it’s understandable. SoS is best utility skill Necros have, even after this change. I can live with it.
- Spite 15 – Death into Life. Increased conversion from 5% to 7%
Here’s a buff I probably won’t notice ever.
- Spite X – Chill of Death. Increased trigger threshold from 25% to 50%.
Lolwut? Consider the other 3 Master Traits here: Spiteful Marks, Axe Training, and Training of the Master. I have a choice between +Mark Damage, +Axe Damage, +Minion Damage, and … this. Why would I ever choose this trait over one of the other three? Chill is an awesome Condi for Necros, but this Trait fails to make good use of it in any meaningful way. Maybe swap Chill of Death out for Spiteful Talismans? Unless you really just want to encourage the Axe/Focus build. Spiteful Talismans really is a Master Level Trait, and Chill of Death might see some use as an Adept level Trait.
- Curses IV – Weakening Shroud. Increase recharge from 15 to 25.
Trait recharge now matches Skill recharge. That’s probably a good call.
- Curses VIII – Banshee’s Wail. Increase cooldown reduction from 15% to 20%.
Whatever. You still won’t catch my Necro running with a Warhorn.
- Death 5 – Reanimator. Decreased cooldown from 30s to 15s.
Eh. Really? Unless you are running a Minion build, these guys aren’t very useful. AND there are a ton of situations where I don’t want any minions at all. These compulsory minions are a pain in the kitten , and I want the Trait to go away, not get buffed. Swap Reanimator out with Spiteful Vigor or Ritual of Protection so that I can choose whether or not I want these little turds spawning all over the place.
- Death VIII – Reaper’s Protection. Decreased the cooldown from 90s to 60s.
This is literally the same situation as the Chill of Death Trait from Spite tree. Here, I can choose between Mark Buff, Death Shroud Buff, Minion Buff, and … this. It’s just a lousy Trait compared with the other 3. Adjust it all you want, I’ll still never use it.
- Death 25 – Deadly Strength. Increased conversion from 5% to 10%.
That’s kinda cool. Might be worth reworking my build to fit that in. I like that it’s a more attractive option, even if I don’t end up taking advantage of it.
- Blood Magic 25 – Blood to Power. Decreased health threshold from 90% to 75%. Increase Power from 90 to 120.
I abandoned Blood Magic when I switched to Staff Build. This little buff is nice, but it’s not enough to influence my build design.
- Soul Reaping II. Vital Persistence. Increased reduction of life force drain from 25% to 50%.
Okay now that is cool. Although it does nothing to mitigate loss from damage, it makes Shroud builds much more attractive. A Minion/Shroud build could benefit greatly.
(edited by jsduke.6537)
TL;DR
Here’s everything I know about Scarlet:
Scarlet is some Sylvari chick who periodically attacks random targets for no real reason. She doesn’t really matter, though, because nothing she does is relevant to anything I do in game.
If she has a story arc I missed it.
Why not do a compromise? It is a game after all.
The compromise would be thus: Keep a playable “history” of the events in something like the Scrying Pool of GW1 was to Eye of the North. And say something like you’re “reliving history.” Don’t give much in the way of shinies (if any) for it. But this way, people won’t come into the game lost why in the world things are happening the way they are. Example: I missed the dragon bash content which started the aetherblade thing (from what I’ve heard). I come in the game and wonder why there are these aetherblades and where did they come from? Seriously… can’t Tyria have a newspaper or storytellers or something to catch up people to plot points that they missed? It obviously doesn’t have to be all the content, just catch people up on the key plot points.
This way, people who make it to the content can feel unique (as they have played all the content, as evidenced by their shiny loot, not just the story part) and people who didn’t make it to the content can at least catch up plot-wise and play a small instance of it so they don’t feel like they missed out on Tyrian history.
re: real life: people don’t want a game to work like real life. It’s a fantasy game. A lot of people play them to escape real life to a certain extent.
You make some great points here. I like the idea of having some sort of in-game record of events that recalls the narrative of the Living Story for new and returning players (or any player, really, who just wants to check it out). I think, though, that ANet was hoping that the player community would fill that role. I think they envisioned guildmates chatting about it in guildchat with new members, or in LA mapchat. That kind of happens already, but the story is a little obtuse and hard to follow for a lot of players (myself included).
There are a couple of in-game items that do exactly what you’re talking about. Marjory’s Journal, and the Zephyr Sanctum Model both replay a scene from past Living Story Content. The problem is, both of those items are account bound and only work for the person who has them.
I think if they made that kind of item a staple of Living Story content, and made them sharable in some way, then players who participated in the content would have a way of sharing that experience with other players. And I don’t mean tradable, necessarily. But rather they could work like a Feast item does. You click it and it summons a temporary item into the world that anyone can interact with to replay the scene.
I don’t want to take the time to go over all of your points and why they don’t make sense, so I’ll just say that your logic is very different than most and leave it at that. I’ll also post this simple equation.
New content + old content > New content
My arguments make sense once you understand what the Living World is. Go read those interviews I posted. Don’t reject Living Story until you know what it is.
In 7 days, LS will be exactly 1 year old. Don’t tell people that they don’t know or don’t understand a “feature” that’s 1 year old, that’s just insulting and not in the least helpful.
I’m not trying to be insulting. Sorry if you felt insulted.
But yes, you can tell by reading a lot of these posts that there are still people who don’t know what Living World is. The feature may have been around for 1 year, but not all the players have. Some people are still struggling to get their heads around it. The idea of Living World is not at all straight forward and obvious. It’s subtle, it’s a bit meta, and it’s a very different way of thinking about MMOs.
You’re still doing it. You suggest that for “some” people, LS is too “subtle”, and “not obvious”, which is another way of saying that they don’t get it, which seems to be the only reason you can accept that people reject LS. That way, you exclude any rational discourse because you simply brand everyone’s rejection of LS as lack of mental capacity.
What you can’t or don’t want to understand is that most of those people might weigh all pros and cons of LS and come to the conclusion that they don’t like it, and the reason for most is simply that they don’t want content removed.
I’ve seen many good arguments against removal of content, and how the LS system is basically an elaborate way of making players log in all the time under the guise of “the next big thing in MMOs”. All I see of your arguments are repetitions of what ANet marketing says in interviews, basically “it’s awesome because the guys at ANet said it is awesome”. I really haven’t seen a single convincing argument in favor of LS. You may find LS for whatever reason, but if you can’t put forward any convincing reason why, then at least don’t call people stupid for not understanding what isn’t there.
Tell you what, you and ANet may be right in the long run, really. Living Story, a.k.a. making all content except the core content temporary, might very well be the next big thing in MMOs.
Except it might only be the next big thing for MMO monetization, not the next big thing for MMO players.
Hey man, you’re putting a lot of stuff on me that isn’t mine. I’ve been pretty explicit about my reasons and goals, here. I haven’t called anyone stupid, and I haven’t implied that people are stupid if they don’t get LS.
Don’t make this personal.
Not sure if this is the correct forum for this issue. Let me know if I should take it elsewhere.
I frequently have the issue where my character is not where it appears to be on my screen. There’s some discrepancy between where my character appears to be to me, and where the game thinks my character is.
This can make it difficult to harvest nodes, melee mobs, effectively run JPs or… you know… everything else I might do in game.
It happens in different areas, instanced and non-instanced, PvE, PvP, and WvW.
I’ve checked my video card drivers and they are up to date.
I’ve adjust graphics settings from absolute lowest, to absolute highest, to “auto-detect”.
Although it seems to happen more when I’m having connectivity issues, it happens even when my connection is stable and strong.
Is there a known fix for this?
Lol I love you guys.
Tequatl the Funless, Loneliest of the Dragon Kings.
Clearly Tequatl is the real victim, here. He even started bringing extra presents to the event for all his little friends to enjoy. But to no avail. His strength is too strong, his strategies to opaque, and his groupies too numerous. Even with the increase in Event Rewards, most players won’t go near him.
One thing the update did accomplish, though. I no longer want to boycott Jormag for being too unrewarding and time consuming. Tequatl wears that crown, now.
Love it. +1 ANet.
I don’t want to take the time to go over all of your points and why they don’t make sense, so I’ll just say that your logic is very different than most and leave it at that. I’ll also post this simple equation.
New content + old content > New content
My arguments make sense once you understand what the Living World is. Go read those interviews I posted. Don’t reject Living Story until you know what it is.
In 7 days, LS will be exactly 1 year old. Don’t tell people that they don’t know or don’t understand a “feature” that’s 1 year old, that’s just insulting and not in the least helpful.
I’m not trying to be insulting. Sorry if you felt insulted.
But yes, you can tell by reading a lot of these posts that there are still people who don’t know what Living World is. The feature may have been around for 1 year, but not all the players have. Some people are still struggling to get their heads around it. The idea of Living World is not at all straight forward and obvious. It’s subtle, it’s a bit meta, and it’s a very different way of thinking about MMOs.
I don’t want to take the time to go over all of your points and why they don’t make sense, so I’ll just say that your logic is very different than most and leave it at that. I’ll also post this simple equation.
New content + old content > New content
My arguments make sense once you understand what the Living World is. Go read those interviews I posted. Don’t reject Living Story until you know what it is.
I know what their design philosophy behind LS is, but that is irrelevant to this topic. This topic is a discussion based on player opinions and perceptions of LS.
Temporary content is bad design no matter how you slice it. Simple addition…
New content + old content > New content
Nope. You still don’t get it.
It would be like if I complained about PvP in WvW. If I complained about people attacking me in WvW, and suggested that WvW would be better if we removed the PvP element, it would be clear that I just don’t get WvW.
WvW without PvP is not WvW anymore.
Living World withough TempCon is not a Living World anymore.
I don’t want to take the time to go over all of your points and why they don’t make sense, so I’ll just say that your logic is very different than most and leave it at that. I’ll also post this simple equation.
New content + old content > New content
My arguments make sense once you understand what the Living World is. Go read those interviews I posted. Don’t reject Living Story until you know what it is.
Yup. No timegates is the “Play how you want” default setting. But I’m assuming the devs have compelling reasons for using them at all, so I’m trying to offer some alternatives. I’m mostly just trying to avoid another timegate fail like we had with Ascended Weapons.
(Estimated Numbers)
1hr of world bosses = 60-100 dragonite oresIf you extrapolate that out based on crafting needs:
5 Dragonite Ingots = 5-8hrsYour numbers are utterly and completely flawed. Each MAJOR meta fight is roughly 15 minutes long which gives you between 15-25 Dragonite ores. And that’s only for Jormag (30 minutes), Golem, Tequatl (20-25 minutes), Shatterer and Champion Drakin Cinderspire. Those spawn every 3 hours or so (excluding Teq atm).
I think it’s a pretty accurate estimate, at least on some servers. I’m only counting the amount of time actually doing the content, though. On my server, I’m able to hit up all the world bosses over the course of 2hrs typically, and I spend an average of 10 minutes on each one, so I get all of them in about a 1-1.5hrs. I don’t count the time in between bosses, because I’m doing something else then.
You’re right about the ore, though. As several of us have said on this thread, it is the hardest to get because all the sources are daily.
Another version of the Ablative Timegate:
“The Gardening Method”
Item X is a rare fruit. You can’t just buy it from a vendor, but you CAN give Item X Seeds to a vendor who will grow them for you. One Item X Seed will produce one Item X on a predictable timer (say, 1/day). When it’s ready, you can retrieve it for crafting. OR you can leave the Item X with the NPC and they will continue to produce Item X at a rate of 1/day until you collect them. This way you still have your “daily craft timer” but it isn’t a chore that players have to do every day, and it doesn’t favor those who can log in every day over those who can’t.
Item X doesn’t have to be a fruit, and it doesn’t need to require a seed. It can be anything that produces something else:
Seed X produces Fruit X
Seed X produces Flower X
Spider X produces Silk X
Chemical X produces Power Puff Girls (sorry, I could resist)
Solution X produces Crystal X
Snake X produces Venom X
And so on.
You can further expand/restrict the availability of these items be changing how many of them can be “ongoing” at a time. Maybe the vendor can only handle 1 Snake X at a time, and 1 Venom X per day is the best you can get. Or maybe he can handle 5 Snake X and you can retrieve up to 5 Venom X per day. Or maybe it’s the same vendor for all of these items, and you have to decide if you want 1 Flower X per day, or 1 Silk X per day, but you can change it whenever you need to and start producing something else instead.
You can further restrict availability by adding more types of items to be produced. Maybe there are Seed X, Seed Y, and Seed Z. You can produce whichever you like, but only one kind at a time.
I’ve been pretty vocal in my dislike of time-gated content in general, and time-gated crafting specifically. I’ve been trying to think up alternative solutions that would work out for everyone. Here’s the best I’ve come up with so far:
Ablative Timegates
The purpose of an Ablative Timegate is to restrict the availability of an item, but to do so in a way that gradually relaxes the restrictions over time. This allows new content to be introduced at a measured pace, but without lingering onerous timegates that outlive their usefulness.
Example 1:
Recipe X is the hot new item that all the characters want to get. In addition to the usual assortment of farmed materials, harvested materials, crafted materials, and currency materials, the recipe calls for 1 Item X.
Item X can only be bought from a vendor (Miyani, perhaps). On release day, the item costs 50 Laurels to buy. Each day thereafter, the price drops by 1 Laurel until it stabilizes at 5 Laurels.
(These are just random numbers I made up for demo purposes)
(It doesn’t have to be Laurels. It could be any currency, really, but it shouldn’t be gold or anything that can be bought with cash or gems.)
This is an “Ablative Timegate”. Hardcore players who HAVE to have it on day one can do so as long as they’re willing to pay the very high cost for Item X.
But over time, the price drops to something more reasonable, and players can jump in at their own comfort level. Once the price hits 5 Laurels, it stays there. The content at that point has been in the game for over a month, so a time-gate is really unnecessary, and it’s pointless to keep punishing players who are pursuing this content.
@Zaxares You are right that it doesn’t have to be temporary. I think that’s where a lot of people are getting stuck. It’s not that ANet goofed up and wasn’t able to find a way to make the content permanent. It was a conscious decision to do something different.
Maybe that will turn out to be a bad call, and ANet will have to roll back and do something more traditional. I hope not, because I think the Living World goals are ambitious and amazing, but maybe that’s what will happen.
Or maybe the players who leave the game because they don’t like the Living World concept will be replaced by new/returning players who do like it, and it will continue. We’ll see, I guess.
The thing I find most frustrating is that I can tell from peoples’ posts that most of them don’t actually understand Living Story. They have no idea what it’s about. They don’t even know what it is they are saying “no” to.
I’ve pretty much said all I have to say on the subject, now, and am just sending people here for the answers:
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/blog/comments/guild-wars-2-living-story-interviews-and-lots-of-them
I hope people will take the time to find out what Living Story is before they reject it because it really is just the coolest thing ever.
@Talissa Chan — I’ve made the same complaints myself. Started a whole thread about it, in fact:
But that whole list of “chores” isn’t Living Story content — it’s dailies and time-gated content. Those are different matters altogether. I think slowing down the pace of the Living World content would satisfy most people’s concerns.
@Katz — “He was gone for 10 months and during that time lots of things were added to the game. Most of them are gone now. You see how silly that is?”
No. I don’t think that’s silly. I think that’s the nature of the game we play. The Living World content is going to continue with or without you. That’s the intention and purpose of the LW TempCon — that it keeps going. That is why it is so cool. That is what makes it so cool. If the ANet team could stream content updates into the game in Real Time they would, and it would be awesome.
GW2 is NOT a static game that you can just hit pause and walk away and come back whenever you feel like it. It’s NOT that kind of game. In GW2, the world is constantly changing and if you walk away from the game, it’s going to be different when you get back. That’s the game we play, and it is kittens awesome.
I don’t do PvP, so my initial thought is idc.
But getting over myself, and taking an honest look at it, it seems like a really cool idea. I certainly think there is room for it in the Lore. In fact, if a particular story arc gave players the option to choose sides and fight for something, then PvP would be the natural venue for that to happen.
Kind of like the Election LS, players can activate a status effect that declares their loyalty, and then when they go into PvP their wins/losses effect how the story progresses.
Yes, I think that’s kind of an awesome idea. I’m glad you thought of it.
…
I still don’t PvP, though.
Oh yeah, recommended reading:
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/blog/comments/guild-wars-2-living-story-interviews-and-lots-of-them
how in ANY way would make any difference to you if it would be perm in an instanced place you would still get your LS every 2 week
the only thing i see here is you just don’t want anyone to enjoy or play those content so you can feel unique ?? or something that you was there and got some stuff and archievs. seeing your posts how you totally make out that’s its the PLAYERS fault if they miss it some people have a some serious stuff to do that can even take for a month or more…..
It’s not about me being special. Video games don’t make me feel special; they’re just fun to play.
It’s about the content being special. It’s about the game world being alive. I know it’s hard to get your head around that, and it’s so easy to get fixated on the stuff that you’re “losing”, but getting to play in a Living World is totally worth it.
Here’s a quote from a Chris Whiteside interview from massively.com:
“I think once people start understanding what it is we’re doing, then they’ll start to get seriously excited about it. But for a player, if you miss something and you really wanted it or you hear about it afterward and you wanted it, there will be some disappointment. That’s the nature of the living world. It comes in and it’s exciting because it’s a limited-time thing, and then it goes away. If we don’t have that paradigm in the living world environment, I’m not sure how much of a living world it actually is in terms of an evolving narrative that synergizes with gameplay. I think it’s a huge bone of contention because it revolves around rewards, but we are always looking for ways to improve rewards. "
For me, being part of a Living World is the best reward. Better than any back skin or dungeon.
You know what? The answers are here:
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/blog/comments/guild-wars-2-living-story-interviews-and-lots-of-them
If you want to know why ANet is removing content, go read some of those interviews. If you want to know why Living World is so special and unique, go read some of those interviews.
Here’s a Chris Whiteside quote from the massively.com interview:
“I think once people start understanding what it is we’re doing, then they’ll start to get seriously excited about it. But for a player, if you miss something and you really wanted it or you hear about it afterward and you wanted it, there will be some disappointment. That’s the nature of the living world. It comes in and it’s exciting because it’s a limited-time thing, and then it goes away. If we don’t have that paradigm in the living world environment, I’m not sure how much of a living world it actually is in terms of an evolving narrative that synergizes with gameplay. I think it’s a huge bone of contention because it revolves around rewards, but we are always looking for ways to improve rewards.”
That’s basically it in a nutshell. It’s temporary because it’s a Living World, and things that are alive, have to change. If it doesn’t change, then it’s not a Living World, it’s just another typical MMO.
I know when we talk about these things that it can be hard to see past the things that you don’t get to have. But if you can, if you can put that aside and see past it, then you can start to see how amazing and rewarding the Living World can be. And once you get that, you understand that TempCon is a necessary part of it.
2. could be replayable in somekinde of instanced gamemode not in the world
southsun is not the same that it was and remade it worse that’s why its abandoned.
Making that content replayable would destroy the very thing that makes it special. This is the central point. It is good that the content is removed and won’t be back. That’s what makes it special and unique.
3. could be replayable in somekinde of instanced gamemode not in the world
yes but would give the returning player a reason to come back for CONTENT
and those players that missed it to get some stuff or just simply see it.
Same as above. Let it stay gone. It’s better that way.
5. personal opinion
The fact that I enjoy it is opinion, yes. The fact that TempCon adds a unique sense of history and lore to the game is not an opinion. That’s what it does. That’s its purpose, and that’s why it was implemented to be temporary.
how in ANY way would make any difference to you if it would be perm in an instanced place you would still get your LS every 2 week the only thing i see here is you just don’t want anyone to enjoy or play those content so you can feel unique ?? or something that you was there and got some stuff and archievs.
I have NO desire to prevent people from enjoying content. None. I don’t need a video game to make me feel unique. It’s not about me. It’s about this very rare and awesome thing ANet is doing called Living Story. It’s not about me being special, it’s about letting the content be special. TempCon makes everyone who participates special, not just me.
seeing your posts how you totally make out that’s its the PLAYERS fault if they miss it some people have a some serious stuff to do that can even take for a month or more…..
I understand that people have life stuff to do. That’s why I have argued that the pace of the Living Story is perhaps too fast and might need to be slowed down to give players more time with the content.
I do blame the players who left the game because they got bored and then came back and complain about the stuff they missed. That is their fault, and I have no sympathy for them. If you leave the game because you lost interest, then you don’t get to complain about missing stuff that happened while you were too busy not caring about the game.
They design their content updates to make you feel like you can’t take 10 months off without missing out. They don’t want you to leave for 10 months – that 10 months where the user base is down a players, it’s 10 months where they are receiving no money from microtransation sales.
They want to pressure you into staying, into jumping through the meta achievement hoops every two weeks, not because it’s fun, but because it’s gone forever if you don’t.
They want you to be unhappy that you took 10 months off. They hope that unhappiness will lead to you not taking another 10 months off and instead jumping through the meta achievement hoops like everyone else.
The fear of missing out is the replacement for fun as your motivation to play GW2 with the Living World’s current design.
I disagree. I’m sorry that you feel that way, but I’m pretty sure that’s not the motive at work, here. I think I understand why you dislike it so much, though, if that’s what you think is happening.
I just don’t think that’s what is really happening. I think you’re missing the point, and that’s too bad because what they’re trying to do is really cool.
There is also another side to this. Some players like me are beginning to feel so stressed out about having to logg on everyday (which you have to do to complete the achievements for living world before it ends) that i think more and more of us feel we are forced to play. I am so feed up with this I am not logging in anymore just to protest. I think its the only way players can show Anet that we are feed up with this.
Sorry to hear that. It’s not the only way to communicate with ANet, but it certainly does send a message.
I agree that the pace of the Living Story schedule is too fast for a lot of people. I’d like to see them slow it down to a monthly release schedule and see how that goes. They could keep the 2week release schedule for all the other content, but the Living Story TempCon deserves more time.
The two-week Living World update is the expansion. It’s all the expansions, all the time. It’s actually really cool once you get your head around it. This release schedule of theirs, all this stuff their putting out, is the stuff you would get in a traditional expansion. There are some very important differences, though:
1) You don’t have to wait 2 years for the expansion to come out. It’s constantly coming out. It literally just came out, and will be coming out again real soon.
2) You don’t have to buy the expansion when it comes out. It’s included in the initial purchase of the game, just because you keep playing!
3) With an expansion, if you don’t like it then, well, you’re really screwed because they aren’t going to change it for you after all that time and effort. But with this Living Story release schedule, if they put something out and the community rejects it, then they can change/fix/amend it. Which I think is something that a lot of people are overlooking.This release schedule allows ANet and the dev community to be much more responsive to the desires of the community than a traditional “expansion release” schedule. For that reason alone, I think it’s a hands-down winner.
So… tl;dr- It’s cool and awesome if you’re a glass-half-full type of guy?
Pity I’m not that way, though. I pretty much left a year ago with just about the same reason OP has. Nothing to do, bored, etc
And since I also have other things needing taking care of, I just took a break from the daily achievement and log routine, expecting more content to be added later.
Good news: They did.
Bad news: They removed it.
I’m not sure what your glass-half-full comment is referring to, but for the rest of it:
1) A lot of the content they added is still in the game.
2) A lot of the rest of the content is recurring content and will be coming back eventually.
3) You missed some stuff. Big deal. Move on. The rest of us moved on. You should join us in moving on.
3) There’s new content right now that you can do.
4) There’s new content coming out in two days that you can do.
5) There will always be new content coming out that you can do.
6) We’re sending more minerals because you clearly haven’t built enough pylons.
I know it sucks that you missed out on some stuff. I missed out on some stuff, too. But honestly man, if you didn’t care enough to check in and see what was going on with the game, then why are you so upset that we did stuff while you were busy not caring about what we were doing in the game?
But it isn’t a different kind of game. It has shown it’s focus on grind, farm mentality very clearly, though I still have some hopes they will change in the end.
Sure, it’s not different in every conceivable way, but the ANet team has very different goals from other MMOs. They have very different values from other MMOs.
GW2 is very clearly a different kind of game, Sirendor. Very much so.
I’m very disappointed Arenanet has said they want to avoid proper expansions and instead stick to this two week “Living World” update nonsense.
The two-week Living World update is the expansion. It’s all the expansions, all the time. It’s actually really cool once you get your head around it. This release schedule of theirs, all this stuff their putting out, is the stuff you would get in a traditional expansion. There are some very important differences, though:
1) You don’t have to wait 2 years for the expansion to come out. It’s constantly coming out. It literally just came out, and will be coming out again real soon.
2) You don’t have to buy the expansion when it comes out. It’s included in the initial purchase of the game, just because you keep playing!
3) With an expansion, if you don’t like it then, well, you’re really screwed because they aren’t going to change it for you after all that time and effort. But with this Living Story release schedule, if they put something out and the community rejects it, then they can change/fix/amend it. Which I think is something that a lot of people are overlooking.
This release schedule allows ANet and the dev community to be much more responsive to the desires of the community than a traditional “expansion release” schedule. For that reason alone, I think it’s a hands-down winner.
How is anything about “Living World” content unique aside from the fact that Arenanet removes it from the game after two weeks?
That is the unique thing that I am trying to defend and protect. I know not everyone gets it, and I know not everyone appreciates it, but I think it’s awesome that the game has a continuously evolving history, and I don’t want to lose it.
It’s the same post-release content expansion you get in any other MMO. It’s not like Twilight Assault can end in defeat, with Scarlet’s minions taking over Tyria. The endings are predetermined. World of Warcraft could delete every new raid instance or dungeon after two weeks and have as much claim to a “living world” as Guild Wars 2 does. Read about what SOE wants to do with Rallying Calls in Everquest Next. That would be a genuinely evolving online world, not what we have in Guild Wars 2.
I agree that ANet could handle Living World and Temporary Content in lots of ways, and that some of them could be better than what they’ve tried so far. My point is that I want them to get the chance to try it. They’ve only just started and although it hasn’t been perfect, it has great potential and I wanna see what they do going forward as they hammer out the kinks.
Arenanet is expending hundreds of man hours on content that no new or returning player is ever going to see. It perplexes me they think this is a good idea, and I fail to see what it brings to the game aside from a sense of superiority to those who manage to finish LW content before it’s removed. The reason you don’t see many games follow this model is because it’s a bad idea. As far as I’m concerned it amounts to Arenanet trying to keep their customers loyal through ransom.
I can tell that you don’t appreciate what it does add to the game. What you have complained about in this post is EXACTLY the stuff I want ANet to do more of. I do get it. I do appreciate it. I do want more of it.
It’s not about feeling superior. I joined the game in April, and I missed out on a lot of stuff. I didn’t really get involved with the Living World side of the game until after Flame and Frost. So I’m in the same boat. The difference is this:
1) I’m not bothered that I missed content. I’m totally okay with that.
2) I LIKE the fact that the game has a history and lore that predates my involvement in it.
In most games, the history and lore is static. It all already happened before the first player ever logged in. But in GW2, the history and lore is ALWAYS HAPPENING. There is new history and lore added in every content update, and we get to be a part of it for however long we are in the world.
I think that is so awesome, and I’m sorry you don’t appreciate it like I do because it is really just the coolest thing ever.
The worst part about this whole debate is that there really is no compromise. It’s an all-or-nothing sort of deal. Some people are going to get what they want, and some people aren’t.
Whatever they end up doing, I hope that it doesn’t ruin your enjoyment of the game. It’s a great community, by and large.