Guild Wars 2

Sadrien.3470:

also the flame barrier traits is awful, no one in their right mind would take it as a master and that is what you appear to have made it lol. and the pyromancers training s very good as it is right now i think a very different change of the fire traits would be much more beneficial especially to glassier builds that require high burst to work in pvp.

Its awful as it is now. The proposed change I’ve made is to make it 100% chance to give fire aura on fire attune. This, combined with the change to fire aura and the trait to give might while a fire aura is active, can make a great synergy.
– It can be a good way to stack might without the need of fields. Trying to keep a fire aura active as long as possible (instead of spamming it) to slowly increase might on a fight (1 stack/2secs). Also makes it good for aura builds that want to get their buffs when attuning to fire
The trait as it is now, is useless, and as it is proposed is bad due to the low trigger chance that make it unreliable.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

food for thought: the new trait, which provides a fire aura, is significantly better than the current minor trait.

WHY?
1) a fire aura doesn’t care if the enemy hit you in melee or at 1500 range. every time you are hit, you gain might, and you burn the enemy.
2) a fire aura synergizes with earth and air traits that grant protection, fury, and swiftness when applying an aura to yourself or an ally

(an aside, responding to Lobo’s fire aura suggestion) i’d much rather gain the might than have another passive condi cleanse. your suggestion of condi cleanse would be reworked to have a 10 second cooldown, just like signet of water, and the guardian’s healing signet, and that’s not very helpful at all. also, it doesn’t synergize with the damage specialization at all. condition cleansing is the healing specialization, aka water. now, if a new water trait would grant condi-cleanse on use of a signet, i wouldn’t complain… just don’t force me to take condi traits in the fire (damage) spec.)

Fire element and the spec has quite some condi clean on its theme too
– fire cantrip removes conditions and burn foes
– phoenix removes conditions
– trait in fire removes conditions (activates fire cantrip for free)
– fire aura already reduces inc condition duration by 20%

All auras are mostly defensive
ice aura is a defense against sustain (freezes foes and reduces inc dmg)
magnectic aura is defense against ranged (reflect projectiles)
shock aura is defense against melee burst (stun, interrupting flurry attacks or burst combos)
fire aura is a mess…
makes sense to make fire aura a decent defense against condition pressure

Also, the might stacking by getting hit is a very poor implementation for the ele. And the trait that gives might on fire aura activation helps this issue. (But I think it should be by time during fire aura, so fire auras give 1 stack of might every 2 secs, making it more skillful play as you need to keep the auras active, not spam them, since they dont stack duration)
This opens the options to use auras to build might even when not taking hits.

Sadrien.3470:

lLobo.7960:

There are a lot of issues with the traitlines changes in the elementalist.

First, the change of flame barrier makes it not able to work with lingering elements.
Lingering elements is a great idea of a trait, but as it only works with T1 minors its useless.
Now, before you could make it work with all 4 minors, but now it will only extend the duration of 1 or 2 (due to specs and elite specs substituting trait point distribution). So I hope they completely change the LE trait to work with any and all traits…
But thats not the point…

For me, burning precision is a good T1 minor to increase burning application and duration for the fire-spec ele, it could be changed to only work in fire attunement, so it would have synergies with lingering elements too and not be too OP for a minor.

I like the concept of getting fire shield when attuning to fire, the problem is fire shield needs to be changed. I strongly believe that fire aura needs to be reworked into removing conditions when hit (1s icd), instead of applying might. This would make the aura more useful (not only for ele, but overall) and would open up possibilities to deal with condi spam without negating it. Currently, all auras have a good defensive value, except fire aura.

I’ve done some suggestions and analysis too, although didn’t get much feedback on it…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/suggestion-Eles-specs-and-playstyles/first#post5023386

your very wrong you can get all the attunement damage modifiers to overlap with lingering attunements ( fire + other attunement damage bonus on meteor shower anyone??? )

Lingering elements only work with the t1 minor traits. It does not provide the effects of any other traits during the extended attunment bonus.
Thats why, as it is, its very bad…

Sadrien.3470:

Lightning rod as a tier 3 minor is far and above broken considering it hits as hard as what mesmer have to land interrupts for and take a gm trait to have. There are better ways to make ele have a strong burst spec without making a better better melee tank spec than glassy midranged build.

Its listed as a T3 major.
I see where it might have been confusing… I’ve listed the Minors but havent listed the majors as major traits…. just by Tiers…

There are a lot of issues with the traitlines changes in the elementalist.

First, the change of flame barrier makes it not able to work with lingering elements.
Lingering elements is a great idea of a trait, but as it only works with T1 minors its useless.
Now, before you could make it work with all 4 minors, but now it will only extend the duration of 1 or 2 (due to specs and elite specs substituting trait point distribution). So I hope they completely change the LE trait to work with any and all traits…
But thats not the point…

For me, burning precision is a good T1 minor to increase burning application and duration for the fire-spec ele, it could be changed to only work in fire attunement, so it would have synergies with lingering elements too and not be too OP for a minor.

I like the concept of getting fire shield when attuning to fire, the problem is fire shield needs to be changed. I strongly believe that fire aura needs to be reworked into removing conditions when hit (1s icd), instead of applying might. This would make the aura more useful (not only for ele, but overall) and would open up possibilities to deal with condi spam without negating it. Currently, all auras have a good defensive value, except fire aura.

I’ve done some suggestions and analysis too, although didn’t get much feedback on it…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/suggestion-Eles-specs-and-playstyles/first#post5023386

Can’t make much about the video, but the description sounds a bit like the Warden from LotRO.

I’ve played Warden in LotRO and really liked the playstyle (you have 3 skills and one “finisher” that changes based on the combo order you use the 3 skills. The longer the combo the more powerful is the “finisher”). The flexibility and adaptability it had was great. It required a LOT of muscle memory though… And spear/shield looked great.

Healing gliph for extra swiftness on overland pve is great.
staff for more aoe and better pulls.
LH and Glyph of Storms (on earth) for blinds if you go melee.

Easy mode to lvl on open world pve…

Jski.6180:

They are doing too much work though to stop a yak is a LOT easier then to def one.

Remember that yaks now will get a buff if they have people around them that will make them very hard to kill. (I suppose is something like the iron skin buff you get from rams)
So defending yaks should be easier, and attackers will need to focus on defenders before killing the yak to be effective.

Ultimaistanza.4793:

“Active map” is the operative word here. I feel that for the servers with dead timezones, they are going to be stuck in a position where they can’t do anything against enemies holding onto their garrisons and will just have to watch as it auto-upgrades. Then it’s a matter of waiting until “active” times and trying to recap a garrison that’s fully upgraded and sieged.

Remember that now you have an event that blasts a cannon and can destroy all enemy gates if they are not repaired.
So if you wake up to a fully dominated T3 map, get the event and go get all the map back.

Very unlikely.

We might just get new weapon and utilities, keeping the attunements as they are.

The problem with removing the attunements from the ele spec is that its gameplay and its traits and utilities are too tied to the attunements.
If you cant swap attunements you loose a LOT of traits, glyphs loose 3/4 of its already low functionality, Arcana line become nearly pointless if you cant att swap, along with mostly all minor traits.

At the same time, keeping the attunements as “stances” or “weapon enchantments” without changing the weapon skills, would solve the problem of loosing traits and utilities (as you keep the attunement swap, just loosing the extra weapon skills). But then the weapon skills would need to be so OP to balance the lack of versatility and/or getting weapon swap…
This is also unlikely as we’ve seen some placeholders datamined and the new weapon (Sword) had skills for all 4 attunements (and not 5)

So, yea.
Seems we get a new weapon, new utilities, but doesn’t seems like we will get a major rework on attunements.

Alekt.5803:

Diamond Skin (DS) is not just good 90% of the time. DS allows the Elementalist to;
1. Have a clear initiation: No blind, no Nightmare runes.
2. DS wrecks most classes and specs initiations. For instance, a Medi-Guard may not begin the fight with an immobilize on scepter, nor may he apply a burning or blind on Judge’s Intervention.
3. DS allows to mitigate the a lot of condition damage from hybrid classes.
4. DS allows to completely counter full condi-specs, which allows the build to run a minimal amount of condi-clean.

This^

The thing is, DS is a GM trait on a defense line. But its main use is as a starter burst safeguard. (a bit like the new thief trait that grant resistance if you get the first strike on combat)
In its current state it should not be a GM.
As a GM trait it should give something else for under 90% health. Like a flat 30% condi duration reduction.

Maybe it was a… stealth nerf!

I think it would be great to have the options to.
Personally I wouldn’t play it, as I like the versatility of the elementalist (with 4 elements).

And some people here in the forums are quite opposing to anything that makes camping one attunement remotely viable.

That would be the case if Lingering Elements work.
It only works with the elementalist minor traits,
So on that FWA build, the only benefit Lingering Elements will give you is 5 secs of extra 120 thoughness when you get out of earth. Soothing aura already extends out of the water attune.

So yea, Lingering Elements could be a really good trait, but its really crappy now, borderline useless.

There are many suggestions to change it to work with other traits, like you mentioned above, making it a good trait and lowering a lot of dependency on EAtt for defense.
I did some myself here.

I don’t think the new exp will be a good combo with staff.
It might be a good option for dungeons, just not with staff.
Staff for pve and dungeons will most likely be fire-air-water, with all the dmg traits.

I just want to point out that condi dmg might have a bigger impact on the dd ele spec after HoT. With the changes to burn stacking and the loss of condi duration on traitlines we might be able to get more dmg out of fast burn stacks.

I run a (almost)full celestial build in WvW (not the meta one, but similar) and the extra condi dmg you get from celestial, using GoEP for extra burns in some fights, can stack quite some dmg with condi duration food.

I think we might get thief style sword skills (mobility and evade) and something similar to venons (weapon enchantments) based on each attunement.
I just hope we get some elite that its actually useful.

FrownyClown.8402:

Raif.9507:

While I do appreciate seeing someone passionate about the Elementalist, I am firmly against any form of promoting attunement camping or creating things like “Fire ele” or “Water ele”. I personally see it as removing the complexity from the class in it’s entirety and removing the very base mechanics of how the class is meant to function.

A change like this would lead (and is currently with the fire staff PvE build) to be boring in my eyes. Thief has Initiative to manage, Mesmers have Clones to manage, Warrior has Adrenaline to manage (lol). With attunement camping you have…. nothing. In this playstyle you don’t want to swap attunements, you don’t want to do anything save 1/2/3 in fire, there’s nothing added there’s no active gameplay and no added mechanic. It’s boring and bland (glad you enjoy it but) I would hate to see developers put more effort in emphasizing attunement camping.

The elementalist is one of the few “complex” (grain of salt please) classes this game has as far as mechanics. I don’t want to see it changed to be a less complex class.

i agree with this. its too bad they have gm traits that support staying in attunements. Like stone heart. Fresh air was probably the best implentation of attunement focus they have. If they had traits like everytime you apply burn fire attunement is reset, or everytime you are hit for more than 20% of your health earth attunement is reset. increase the damage of sunspot by a large amount. increase the radius of earthen blast and increase cripple duration.

The idea of my suggestions was not to push the ele into camping, but giving each spec line more synergy.

I think an ele that specs into one attunement (for instance fire) is trying to focus on one role while keeping the other attunements as utility. And this should be as viable as rotating attunements fast.
Fresh air permits the air ele to do just that. rotate attunements for utility (blasts and invul, cleanse, etc) while always going back to air for dps.

If Lingering Elements would work properly, the ele that swaps attunements wouldnt need EAtt so badly. If he traited for dmg (fire and air) he would keep those bonus out of his attunement longer, being able to rotate attunements better. Same for those speced on defense and heals (earth and water).

The proposal I tried to do is to balance each line to have more synergy with each playstyle. Be it constant swap, situational swap or camping.

I just think that each of those playstyles and their variations (support, sustain, tank, burst, auras, etc) need to be viable and have synergy for that. So that if you like to play D/F you wont get people asking you to fire camp staff or the other way around.

Examples:
PVE:
With the changes above you could play the fire staff build with fire/air/water for good sustain dps camping fire. You could also use the same specs and go D/F with fresh air without loosing too much dps. Or you could do fire/air/arcana for D/F fresh air, loosing the bonus dmg from water but getting extra dps procs when you swap attunements and better arcane skills, and using lingering elements to keep the dmg bonuses for a short period out of fire and air – improving the burst capacity by going air-fire-air. Also you could go fire/air/water with conjures and camp water for the bonus dmg of piercing shards. All those playstyles would be viable on dungeons and not very unbalanced between them.

The idea is not force a playstyle, but make them all (mostly) equally viable.
Make fire auras viable for pve and pvp, make glyphs a valid option etc…

I’ve tried a similar build (2 in air for ZB instead of water) and it works ok for 1v1 (good for wvw roaming) but in 1vx or group fights it falls short on boff support and survival (Blinding Ashes not triggering on multiple foes).

Both are viable.
Staff is optimal (longer range pull, more kite/aoe potential).

Staff is optimal for overland lvling as you have longer range to bring more mobs to you, CC them and AoE.
You can use LH for harder fights and Sandstorm. Blinds are your best friends when leveling the ele.
Staff and healing glyph will give you easy access to perma swiftness.

Chris.5720:

Making EA baseline wouldn’t change anything for those that prefer staying in one attunement. While they may not get the consistent boons from swaping attunements actively, I’m pretty sure no ele would complain about occasionally getting certain boons when swaping attunements because of a certain skill that is currently needed.

I very much enjoy playing out all the boons on ele depending on the situation as by playing PvP and WvW you get to learn to use them to your advantage while other classes that don’t have such a wide access to different boons have blocks, stealth or similar mechanisms.

So yeah, I do agree with the suggestion that EA should be baseline with EvAr if really needed being in the GM tier. However, as many others have said before, the duration of the boons should be a little bit shorter and the boons should only be applied to you while a GM trait could make them apply to allies.

I disagree with that.
The boon generating is not the “core mechanic” of the elementalist. The attunements are.
They can be used in fast rotations (as arcana builds do) or focusing one element for a specific role (as pve builds do for max dps) and using the other elements for utility.

If the elementalist “feels wrong” without the boons, its because the attunements (and their spec lines) need to work better.

I do enjoy the active playstyle of swapping attunements and I do believe that Eatt is extremely important for pvp/wvw survival on that playstyle. And therefore should not compete with EA for a trait slot. But it is not baseline for the elementalist and not even for arcana line.

I think the condi cleanse on being hit should be innate of fire aura.
Other auras have very nice uses (ice reduce 10% inc dmg and chills – good against sustain, magnetic reflects projectiles – good against ranged burst, shocking stuns – good against melee burst)
Fire aura reducing condi pressure (cleanse on hit, not just plain cleanse) and burning opponents fits the Auras theme very well.

I think the might stacking with fire aura (for proposed ele trait) should not be “on hit”. As this would give eles that don’t want to stay in the combat (backline casters) a way to build might (by managing their fire auras) without having to waste their fire-fields on their feet and without the need of being hit.
Also, I think it should be a pulsing effect on the fire aura (traited) so that stacking might pre-fights is still viable instead of just spamming all auras (signets), but opening up the possibility of a ele to micro-manage his fire auras from range to build up might during the fight.

This would fit one of the purposes of the fire line and give the ele options to stack might from range for different playstyles.

Sword is most used across professions as a high mobility weapon with flurry attacks and evades.
Tempest seems to be going that way. Mobility (leaps and maybe teleports), flurry attacks and evades.
Probably lower range than dagger, but higher dmg in fewer tgts (frontal cleave, no pbaoe), auto-attack chains and some soft cc (cripples and imobs)

So a bit like thief Sword, I’d say…

I play ele since beta in all game-modes, and I think I understand it quite well.
But some people seem not to understant what a class baseline is (including whoever set PU baseline for mesmers)

EAtt is not baseline to Ele, is baseline to Eles that constant att swap (and therefore keep the buffs active). It should just be kept as a T2 trait and EA T3, while improving other trait lines to make them viable options to it (mostly air and fire).

The thing is, the constant att swap to get protection and regen, and vigor (and soothing mist) is the only way, at the current state of the game, an Ele can keep itself alive in combat when being focused.
As pointed out, Eles don’t have any baseline defense, be it passive (high armor or hp) or active (stealth or clones). So if you want to be anything besides a backline caster you need arcana to get those buffs that will let you get in combat and able to sustain.
That is why D/D needs water, earth and arcana in PvP. To survive being focused or being in cleave/aoe range. And this option should be kept.

I don’t care if the new elite spec brings new options to do the same. Having a new way to do a role should not justify removing another.

What it should be done is a better look into the fire and air lines to improve their values and make them options (not better, just more viable) for the water/earth/arcana.
And also improve the Lingering Elements trait to work with all attunement exclusive traits, opening up room for the ele to choose other things besides EAtt (since earth protection and water regen will last longer).

Most PvE builds dont ever use EAtt and it would be useless for them to have it, yet they could use lingering elements to improve their dmg and sustain if they choose to go on the attunement swap playstyle. And yes, att dance is a playstyle for the elementalist, its not the only one. I don’t like camping fire, but I’m glad I don’t have to be asked to do it or not do it in PvE or any other game mode.

Thats why I think we need to propose better changes, but with a good idea of the different elementalist playstyles and game modes. Even if you don’t like a certain playstyle or game mode, there should be options there for everyone.

So no, I disagree that Eatt should be baseline, but Yes, it should not compete with EvArcana for GM slot. They both fit the active playstyle (use attunments in an active form to keep sustain – heal, might, blasts, mobility) and this active playstyle should not be removed or nerfed. Yet, it would be nice to open EAtt to be paired with ECont to provide a more boon centric elementalist, that gains boons actively and passively. But then ECont needs to change to provide different boons to have more synergy with EAtt and provide boons that are good enought to compete with EA for the GM slot. (See my suggestion on other topic)

Yes, I agree with you that the proposed changes don’t seem very well thought and even seems that they were not sure over some of them (what might be a good thing).

Thats why I think we need to propose better changes, but with a good idea of the different elementalist playstyles and game modes. Even if you don’t like a certain playstyle or game mode, there should be options there for everyone.

So no, I disagree that Eatt should be baseline, but Yes, it should not compete with EvArcana for GM slot. They both fit the active playstyle (use attunments in an active form to keep sustain – heal, might, blasts, mobility) and this active playstyle should not be removed or nerfed. Yet, it would be nice to open EAtt to be paired with ECont to provide a more boon centric elementalist, that gains boons actively and passively. But then ECont needs to change to provide different boons to have more synergy with EAtt and provide boons that are good enought to compete with EA for the GM slot. (See my suggestion on other topic)

Raif.9507:

lLobo.7960:

EAtt is not borderline to Ele, is borderline to Eles that constant att swap (and therefore keep the buffs active).

The fact that staying in one attunement is a viable way to play the class makes me sad. Sitting in Fire and using 1/2/3 is just such a waste of other abilities especially since the entire class is balanced around having all these abilities. It’s why they all have such long cooldowns.

It should be baseline, comepletely. A solo version only as you should be rewarded for swapping attunements and using the class mechanic, not completely ignoring it.

I agree that camping is not as much fun as att swaping, but I think it should be a valid option. You still have the other attunements, but when camping, you swap to them for the utility (CC, heal/cleanse, burst), and not as often as you do in the att dance playstyle.

I think Eatt is a great trait in the arcana line and it does provide great value to any ele that is going to change att constantly. But its not baseline to all eles.

I think that focusing on one att and using others as needed only is, and should still be a viable playstyle for the ele. And those that like it should not be seen as “not using the class potential” for playing it. Just as much as att dancing should not be seen as “not using your best dps”. Just different ways of doing things. This is the diversity Ele could have.

So you could go on staff and cap fire, only going to other attunements when their skills are needed.
You could go fresh air and by constant air and include more att dance while still mostly camping air for the dmg (plus using other attunements for blasts and utilities)
You could go conjure in water to get the most of piercing shards…

I think if Lingering Elements could work with other att traits it would be a great way to promote more att swap and even include att rotations in some camping builds.

I usually go D/F fresh air in dungeons, as I don’t find the fire camping fun.
And I’m glad no one tells me, even on the most elitist groups, to change that. I’m also glad that I can see a fire camping staff ele and not tell him he is doing a bad job by playing different (poor necros). I do run fire staff on overland pve “raids” and I’m happy to be able to change between the different styles.

I do hope a lot of the changes get reviewed so we can see more diversity both in dungeons, overland pve, wvw and pvp…

I want to see tanky earth eles being a option to keep CP on conquest.
I want to see conjure eles being an option in dungeons, along with d/f fresh air and fire staff…
I want to see water eles (with lower CD and greater healing) being viable in wvw just as much as other specs.

No worries, everyone will call it guardbow anyway…

Although the Idea of merging dungeons in fotm is terrible (for all the reasons mentioned above)
It would be interesting to see mechanics like the fotm levels and instabilities placed into dungeon paths. Not as many, but some increased lvls of difficulty with greater rewards and “instabilities” themed for each dungeon.
Each dungeon getting some 3 “challenge” levels for their paths.

I expect some more LS content added as FotM.
I just hope they don’t just add the LS instances, but adapt some world bosses to be fractal bosses.
Going against the scarlet marionette with a group (doing one platform at a time) or climbing the tower of nightmares could be really cool fractals, and a way to get content that is already done to be used.

If they could change the conjurer trait to improve charges and stats of conjure weapons.
And then made Air Line half decent.
Conjure Ele could be a good option for pve (fire/air/water) with all the dmg boosts and camping water for maximum dmg modifiers (10% against burning, 20% against CCed, 20% against low hp, 20% against foes with vulnerability, 10% if you are above 90%hp…) so LH might still be viable.

Would be nice to see some of proposed changes as they could open room for other conjure eles…

Might-stacking with flame axe when fire fields are not viable. (If flame axe bounced and give might for every hit, like rangers axe)

Tank ele camping earth and use flame axe for might stacks and burn.
Tank ele using LH for dmg…

Earth shield… no idea
If Pyromancer Puissance worked with skills (not spells) camping fire and using earth shield could be viable for a condi build based on bleeds and burn… maybe?

I can understand why IP was made baseline for mesmer, PU on the other hand…

EAtt is not borderline to Ele, is borderline to Eles that constant att swap (and therefore keep the buffs active). It should just be kept as a T2 trait and EA T3, while improving other trait lines to make them viable options to it (mostly air and fire).

The thing is, the constant att swap to get vigor, protection and regen (and soothing mist) is the only way, at the current state of the game, an Ele can keep itself alive in combat when being focused.
As pointed out, Eles don’t have any baseline defense, be it passive (high armor or hp) or active (stealth or clones). So if you want to be anything besides a backline caster you need arcana to get those buffs that will let you get in combat and able to sustain.

That is why D/D needs water, earth and arcana in PvP. Survive being focused or being in cleave/aoe range. And this option should be kept.

I don’t care if the new elite spec brings new options to do the same. Having a new way to do a role should not justify removing another.

What it should be done is a better look into the fire and air lines to improve their values and make them options (not better, just viable) for the water/earth/arcana.
And also improve the Lingering Elements trait to work with all attunement exclusive traits, opening up room for the ele to choose other things besides EAtt.

We got some molten facility and aether blade hideout split in 4 different fractals.
So what LS instances – or what part of the instance – (LS1 and LS2) would you like to see as a fractal?
Boss fight against the dragon champion?
Fractal in Glynts lair?

I think it would be cool to even get some open world fights and tune them to instance group content.
Like a boss fight against the Giant Marionette, where the group goes from one platform to the next to destroy the chains.
Or a Run across the Tower of Nightmares!

A few more changes after some readings and considerations.

Elemental Contingency is a passive defense trait (buffs on hit), not only it should be able to use it with other passive traits in the line (like final shielding) but it should give buffs that can be use for defense. Aegis on earth and resistance on water are good options as they protect the ele against what those elements are themed to protect. Haste on air as air focus on defense by mobility and quick response.
The changes would make EC very powerful and a good contender to Evasive Arcana on T3. Also, would open up the buff ele spec with Elemental Attunement on Master Tier without removing the active playstyle synergy of the EA traits (Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement).

I don’t think it should be baseline.
It is a trait that promotes attunement swaping and not ALL elementalist playstyles demand that, (See the firecamping in staff).
It is a very important trait for PvP, but was never needed for PvE.

The true is, IMO, ele needs options to it.
If Lingering Elements worked with the defenses and bonuses of water and earth, the ele would be more free to go for other line than arcana.
If fire line would give a better sustain option (fire aura removing conditions, blinding ashes with ICD per target) the PvP ele would have a valid option over the arcana line without the need to go with ElAtt. And yet, ElAtt would still be a good option for group support.

They need to keep the synergy of the EA’s traits (Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana) and improve the other lines (mostly fire and air) to be valid options for arcana on a PvP environment. And that Environment means Ele need some complementary defense (fire) and burst capability (air) to open up competitive PvP playstyles.

(I did some suggestion regarding the playstyles here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/suggestion-Eles-specs-and-playstyles)

MonMalthias.4763:

…

As for Fire Aura being buffed, more of the reworked functionality can be shifted onto the One With Fire trait, although this would do no favours for the tooltip in Specialisation view. Thus:
One With Fire

• Fire Auras you apply last longer and grant Might on application. Reflect incoming damage and reduce incoming condition duration
  • 33% Duration bonus
  • 2 x Might @ 10 seconds base duration (I presume the devs had Strength runes or something similar on)
  • Incoming Condition duration: -20%
  • Damage reflection: 5%

The alternative is as ILobo proposed:

lLobo.7960:

Fire aura needs to remove condi on beeing hit (1 condi, 1sec icd), reducing condi pressure on the ele and becoming a option besides water spec, but not beeing far superior to it.
The fire aura trait should provide might for every 2secs of fire aura. This would make chaining fire auras (instead of spamming) another option to stack might without having to use fields and blasts.

We need options, diversity, not nerfs!

So:
One With Fire

• Fire Auras you apply last longer and grant Might on application. Reflect X% incoming damage and cleanse Y Conditions on being hit
  • 33% Duration bonus
  • 2 x Might @ 10 seconds base duration (I presume the devs had Strength runes or something similar on)
  • Conditions cleansed on being hit: 1-2
  • Damage reflection: 5%

With the amount of incidental condition output nowadays and triple Signet + Lightning Flash builds having an average CD of ~20 seconds (with new Written in Stone trait) this puts the average Fire Aura output at ~20/3 = 6.6 seconds between possible activations.

• So you can cleanse up to 9-18 conditions per minute; well on par with the meta Cleansing Wave/Cleansing Water/Elemental Attunement/Evasive Arcana of 2 × 6 (2 per attunement to Water per minute) + 1 × 6 (1 Water Attunement dodge roll). Total = 18.
• Given that Signets are cooldown limited and require that you take damage to proc cleanse this is a fair tradeoff. Heck, you don’t even get the innate sustain of the meta build out of the bargain.

I think this should go in here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/suggestion-Fire-Aura-rework/

I think Lingering elements would be a very good trait if it worked with other “on attunement” traits, making the attunement change a very nice thing to micromanage.
It would fit a fresh-air build very nice, making it able to use both water (piercing shards) and air dmg boosts if att swap is well done.
And yes, it could provide great synergy with stone heart for defense.

It makes perfect sense in arcana line, a line that promotes attunement swapping, by providing you the benefits from your spec attunements a bit further during your att rotation.

It just need to work.

BlackBeard.2873:

Personally, GoEP is one of my favorite skills and is just SO CLOSE to being useful. It helps that: the condition that procs depends on the attunement it was cast in, which helps in a few ways:
- Using GoEP in air to stunbreak a burst from thieves/mesmers is very strong b/c it not only helps you avoid that damage, but you can easily spam out perma-weakness which KILLS their dps. I sometimes use GoEP with staff to spam weakness on large groups too in WvW.
- If burning stacks, using this in fire will be central to almost any condi ele for lots of dps.
- I know people hate on the stunbreak, but I think it adds to the skill-cap of GoEP. In some fights, you save it for the stunbreak. In some fights, you want to pre-emptively spam out weakness. In other situations you want that extra dps from burn procs. It has the potential to be a very skill-intensive trait in a lot of ways.

The downsides:
- The chill from water and cripple in earth just aren’t on the same power level. In theory they can be used to mess up rotations/kite, but ele has so much access to cripples that it can’t keep up. The chill would REALLY be helped by a water trait (or fire trait) that makes chill do damage (as terrormancers have with fear). This would also REALLY help condi ele.

I use it like that on my balanced build also.
The problem is, the ICD AND proc chance. It shouldn’t have both!
And I do believe its useless with staff as the ICD is not per opponent, so you only apply some condi to one target in the crowd… I could be wrong in this, but really think its the way it works (and it shouldn’t!)…

BlackBeard.2873:

One thing that must be addressed is “Fire Aura”: Right now it’s…not great.

I can see one problem with straight-up buffing fire auras is that it ALSO buffs the other classes who can get them quite easily (warrior, engie, some ranger builds). One good option is to actually give it the -20% condition duration listed in the focus-skill tooltip (that has been bugged forever). The other option is to make the “aura enhancement” master-level fire trait give it functionality that isn’t as useless. A longer duration of something so useless and might stacks on a class that already pumps them out is kinda dumb. This trait could give some of the buffs suggested, but as it is, fire auras are just kind of bad.

Fire aura needs to remove condi on beeing hit (1 condi, 1sec icd), reducing condi pressure on the ele and becoming a option besides water spec, but not beeing far superior to it.
The fire aura trait should provide might for every 2secs of fire aura. This would make chaining fire auras (instead of spamming) another option to stack might without having to use fields and blasts.

We need options, diversity, not nerfs!

Disagree.
Would be extremelly OP with the current aura traits.

I think it would much better give ele buffs that it doesn’t currently have access to (or just one way to get it)
Fire: vigor (option to Renewing Stamina)
Air: Quickness
Earth: Resistance
Water: Regen

I don’t think shocking aura, even yours, procs anything.
The stun seems to be self inflicted. So, last time I tired, lightning rod (and perplexity runes) proc on you if you hit someone else with a shocking aura.

At the current state of the gameplay one can’t live without E.A (both ones) and keep the d/d playstyle.
If they are going to be a choice, there need to be options. Otherwise its not a choice, its a nerf.
Options need to come from other traitlines.
Turn earth attune t2 minor into a blast finisher.
Give fire auras the “remove a condition when being hit” instead of might.
Make cleansing water a minor instead of aquatic benevolence.

Give options to eles to move out of arcana, don’t just make arcana bad.

My review and suggestions are here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/suggestion-Eles-specs-and-playstyles/

Fire aura rework to be more in line with other auras:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/suggestion-Fire-Aura-rework/

Lava axe auto attack needs to bounce around, providing might for every hit. This could make it a good option for might stack (it got blast, leap, fire fields and might on auto)

We could use an elite signet (arcane signet) that gives haste on attunement swap (2s, 5s cd) and recharges all attunements on use (45s CD)

Change the summoning glyph (no the elite one) to be the stun breaking glyph, make it instant cast and turn it to give you an aura based on attunment instead of a summon. Would have a great synergy with a lot of builds and would free GoEP to be used pre-combat, as its supposed to be.

RTL needs to be looked at. It should have it CD reduced and it needs to be an better AoE (doesnt hit anything even when it lands) or no need to hit to have a decend CD.

FGS needs its dmg back! At least some of it. Right now its only useful to run away from things, and even for that, norn racial elite is better.
(really, when I see a necro using lich form, I know I need to run for cover, when I see a engy using supply crate, I know I need to get back away from it, A warrior in rampage? kite it untill you can fight him again… An ele casts FGS, You won – he is running away)

Earth: Earth is the defence element. Specialization in earth should boost the elementalist defence and provide it with ways of being more of an attrition fighter (conditions and control).

Minors: Stone Flesh, Geomancers Training (20% CD reduction to earth skills), Geomancer’s defense

T1: Armor of earth, Elemental Shielding, Serrated stones

T2: Strenght of stone(Gain 10% Cond dmg based on your toughness, inflict bleed on critical hits), Rock solid( Break stun and Grant stability to nearby allies when attuning to earth 3 stacks for 3 secs), Ground training (You recover from crippled, immobilized, and chilled 33% faster and gain 3s protection (10s icd) when afflicted with movement impairing cond).

T3: Diamond Skin, Written in Stone, Stone Heart

Earth line is turning in a great defense line, but it lacks options to create a viable condi ele. Creating a way to cause bleeds outside of the earth attune (with bleed on crit trait) could improve that.
The changes to stability made rock solid a bad trait. It need to be improved to get its functionality back. Turning it on a stun-breaker gives it a more active playstyle, and increasing the stacks and duration a bit make it able to be used to heal, stomp or burst.

Water:Water is the healing and support line. Specialization on water gives better and more ways of the ele to heal and remove conditions and act as a healer and support.

Minors:Soothing mist, Aquamancers training (reduce water skills CD by 20%), Cleansing water

This minor trait set up sets the theme for the water element. the loss of healing ripple is compensated with 20% reduction on water healing skills, and can be regained by traiting it in arcana. Cleasing water makes more sense than aquatic benevolence, that fits more the suport playstyle that not all water eles will persuit, even more with the water line becoming more important to dmg eles.

T1: soothing ice, piercing shard, stop, drop and roll (dodge removes burn and poison)

T2: soothing disruption, cleansing wave, vital striking(gain 10% dmg while you are above 90% hp, cause vulnerability to foes you strike that are above 90% health)

T3: bountiful power, aquatic benevolence (Healing and regeneration are increased by 20%), powerful aura

This makes a clear path for support eles (auras or heals) or dmg eles.
Making stop, drop and roll remove poison also makes the line better for healing, and create good synergy with the trait in earth to decrease movement impairing condis.

Arcana: Arcana line promotes diversity. It makes the ele more flexible by granting small boons to all attunements, but for smaller periods. The idea is to grant the elementalist faster attunement swap and more versatility.

Minors: Arcane fury, Lingering elements (this works with all attunement exclusive traits), Arcane precision (20% chance on crit, works with lingering elements)

T1: Arcane Energy (Arcane skills restore 33 endurance when used and have 20% lower recharges), renewing stamina, arcane abatement

T2: elemental attunement, Arcane attunement (Creates a spell at your location when you attune to an element – previous t2 minors traits spells, earth is blast finisher, fire has 600 radius), Final Shielding (Create an Arcane Shield for 5s and recharge all arcane skills when your health drops below 25%)

T3: Evasive arcana, elemental surge, Elemental Contingency (change buffs to – Fire: vigor, Air: haste, Earth: aegis, water: resistance)

This creates the synergy to promote an arcane skill based ele. With the recharge of arcane skills (including the heal) and the recover of more endurance to compensate the lack of vigor from Renewing stamina.
The change to lingering elements is much needed to builds that want to camp a single element but need to cycle the others to get their respective utilities. Extending their traited buffs (dps or defense) for a bit longer after they left their attunement, promotes the attunement swapping this line is about.
Arcane precision, working with lingering elements and with a greater chance to trigger can make the condi ele viable, by increasing condi application and making it possible to apply more than one condition per hit based on attunement.
The new proposed trait to include the old (or current) t2 minor traits from each element would make more sense in this line and combined with evasive arcana promote an active game-play. Giving the ele more options to blast fields and provide utility for the attunement swap not only on the specific attunement traited. This would open up more builds that don’t rely on water spec for healing (getting both heals from arcana) but would still make water great for healing (with shorter CD on the evasive arcana water dodge and all other water heal skills)

Fire: – Fire is about sustain dmg. It should focus on high dmg and burns with defensive options to keep the ele in the fight to deliver its sustain.

Minors: Burning precision(Critical hits cause burning (1s, 1s icd) in fire attunement and burning last 33% longer.) , Pyromancers training (20% fire skills CD reduction part only), Burning rage
This reflects the spec main goal, deal more sustain dmg and extensive burn application.
The change to burning precision make it more useful to eles that focus on fire attunement, but working with lingering elements can extend to attunement dancers for a small period. The 1s duration and 1s icd make it viable to keep the burn but not over stack (no more condi duration bonus in trait lines)

T1: Flame Barrier (Gain 3s fire aura while attuning to fire, 100% chance), Pyromancers inscriptions (signets give 3sec fire aura, deal 10% more dmg while in fire attunement), Power Overwhelming(Gain 10% condition damage based on your power and improved condition duration)

T2: Burning Fire, One with fire(fire auras you apply last 33% longer and give 1 stack of might every 2secs), Conjurer (conjured weapons have 10 extra charges and increased attribute bonuses),

T3: Blinding ashes, Pyromancers puissance(Each skill you use while attuned to fire grants you might. Might have improved effects on you), Persisting flames

This open up different synergies and playstyles.
The change to flame barrier makes it a good option to be used by attunement dancers, while the glyphs can be used as a good source of fire auras for other aura builds. The proposed change to Power overwhelming makes it a good trait for pve (with condi stack changes) and condi builds, and it can replace the condi duration lost.
The change in Pyromancers puissance makes it a good trait by not only giving might per skill (not per spell, so works with conjures) but improving might effects could net you a dps increase equivalent of persisting flames in some scenarios, making it a good option.

Air: Air is the burst dmg element. Specialization in air should increase burst dmg and provide ways to deliver that burst. Extra procs for more dmg, bonus dmg and hard CC and mobility are what this speacialization should provide, so that the air ele can get in the fight fast, deliver its burst, and move out of harms way.

Minors: Zephyrs Speed (move 25% faster while attuned to air), Aeromancers Training (Reduce air skill CD by 20%), Weak spot

T1: Zephyrs boon, One with air, Ferocious Winds (gain 5% attack speed and 10% dmg while attuned to air)

T2: Inscriptions(Grants a boon associated with your current attunement – fire: vigor, air: haste, earth: resistance, water:regen – when you cast a glyph. Reduce Glyph Recharge by 20%, Bolt to the heart (20% dmg against foes under 33% hp), tempest defense (Surround yourself with a Shocking Aura when disabled.)

T3: Lightning rod (Disabling an enemy causes them to be struck by a Lightning bolt, Deal 20% more damage to disabled enemies), Fresh Air, Lightning Inscriptions (glyphs are instant cast)

Zephyrs speed needs to be a 25% increase. a 10% is useless even to run around in pve. 25% would make it viable, but would still keep the signet for holding the speed on other attunements and stun break.
Ferocious (as proposed here) winds make camping air attunement a good contender to use conjures with, improving the attack speed and dmg. It also improves the auto-attack capacity of scepter and staff users that are very slow…
Bolt to the Heart needs to be on T2 to have it synergy back with fresh air. But at the same time, moving the bonus dmg against disable foes to GM makes a possible great synergy with BttH and Lightning rod. this opens the possibility of high burst (BttH+LR) or more sustained bursts (BttH + Fresh air).
The changes to the buffs provided by inscriptions can make the trait more attractive to eles, opening up room for glyph uses… combine with instant cast glyphs in GM could make a great option (instant cast ress glyph? still long CD) for a buff spec ele or support ele.
The loss of electric discharge may seem harsh, but by combining it with other traits in the arcana would give the fresh air ele even more procs that would help him, if he specs in arcana.

The elementalist is a versatile prefession that uses each element to cover different roles in combat: sustain dmg in fire, burst dmg in air, cleanse and heal in water, defense in earth. This versatility is balanced by locking up attunements with CD and having long CD on skills. Therefore, if the elementalist can choose to focus on one role, by specializing in that element line or try to improve its versatility by specializing in arcana.

Specializations in each element should therefore increase the elementalists efficiency on such roles and provide ways of being able to perform what they are supposed to perform in that element.

Arcana Spec in the other hand promotes a more varied playstile by making it more viable to quickly change attunements (att dance). That is why is so popular, makes the ele gameplay more fluid and action-packed while making the ele more balanced across elements.

To reflect this concept, Minor traits should make the core of the spec, they are the baseline of a spec (no options) and should reflect the main spec idea and role and make it more viable to perform it for longer (att camp). At the same time Arcana should promote the constant change of attunements and provide small bonuses when attunements are activated, but never more than each attunement have by itself.
For this, I belive it would be a good thing to make all attunement skill CD traits to be minor traits for their specs, and all the “on attunement” minor traits (current/old t2 minors) to be merged in one trait in arcana.

I also strongly believe that fire aura needs to be reworked into removing conditions when hit (1s icd), instead of applying might. This would make the aura more useful (not only for ele, but overall) and would open up possibilities to deal with condi spam without negating it. Currently, all auras have a good defensive value, except fire aura.

So, here are some proposed changes to specs to reflect this and some explanations I hope reach the devs somehow…

Any constructive feedback is appreciated.

And sure, we don’t know how things are going to be in the end. But we do know how long it takes to fix things that get broken, and after trying to “wait and see” since betas, I think its time to propose changes before they do more dmg to the elementalist by locking it in a single spec for pve (Staff) and a single one for pvp (bunker).

I’d join that defense team.
Did a few times and it can be really fun.

Conjures have uses for specs that camp a single attunement. This goes more in PvE than pvp.
You can camp earth to be more defensive and use a conjure to get more dmg than your earth skills would provide.
You can camp water to improve your dmg and mantain regen and use a conjure to provide high dps.

There are uses for conjures, just not as great as going your usual meta builds.
LH used to be meta in PVE…

What could make conjures better:
– Change conjurer trait to improve the stats they give and the charges
– Make it possible to pick up the second conjure to increase the time and charges on yours
– Make skill CD reduction work on conjures when you use them on that attunement
– Make LA auto attack bounce

This could open up possibilities to playstiles like:
– Fire spec ele with earth shield (great burn and bleed condi application and good defense)
– Earth ele with LA (a tankish ele in earth for crit immunity and using lava axe for might stack and burn without leaving the defense of earth att)

Would those be meta? probably not, but would be viable in certain scenarios.
(at least more viable than now)

ronpierce.2760:

lLobo.7960:

ronpierce.2760:

Maybe it could match the boon style of Light aura and give 2 seconds of resistance when hit instead. Not really for the idea of straight removal but a moment’s break might not be so bad. Plus then it could be removed.

I think giving immunity (even brief) for condi would be a bit OP as it would prevent other conditions to be applied, while removing a single condition from you per hit per sec would reduce the condi burst/pressure but not completely negate a condi stacking opponent.

Resistance doesn’t remove nor prevent application. It just suppresses effects for the short duration. So say someone had 5 seconds of 14 bleeds on you. Condition removal would take them all away. REsistance would suppress the ticks for 2 seconds and 3 would go through.

I like the idea, but I’m not sure what would be more balanced.
Resistance is a buff, so it can be removed. But at the same time it stops ALL conditions for a moment. If the user can maintain the aura (constant leaps over fields and aura traits or runes) it can keep the buff longer neutralizing conditions.
If it cleanses one condition it removes some pressure, but all other conditions keep acting. Most condi builds apply more than one condition per hit, so the single condi cleanse would remove only part of the effectiveness even if kept longer.

Would be interesting to test both options to see what fits better, balance wise.

In any case, I think the idea of fire aura providing defense against conditions is a good one (magnetic is defense against missiles, frost against sustain dmg, static against burst)

Kits are an engi mechanic, Conjures are an ele one.
I think they should be different and its good for the game.
It is nice also that you can give conjures to others.

What conjures need is a better trait option.
A trait that not only gives them more charges but also improved stat bonuses to compensate the dps loss.

Weyrd.2794:

Your suggestions would make it more of an element swapping skill, which would make it more of and Arcane specialization trait than and Earth one.

This.

Its true that mostly no ele can’t camp an attunement. But that seems to be what they want to change.

With some changes (see my post on the other topic) I think earth attunement could be a good one to camp (when spec to it) for tanking. You can quick go into water to heal and fire/air to burst, returning to earth to mantain sustain. Arcana (if they fix lingering elements) would help making the swap fast, while keeping the protections longer.
Other option is to use conjures in earth. Having higher dmg with LH or high might stacks with LA but still keeping full earth attune defense.

Give air line a GM trait that makes all glyphs instant cast.
This, coupled with buffs and CD reduction would make glyphs very usefull, even the useless ones (ress glyph)