Guild Wars 2

Svarty.8019:

mazut.4296:

-Speed of Shadows: Same. I never really liked this trait before and rarely used it. That’s why I fail to see the reason why people are so upset with the changes?

I find it mindboggling that someone who doesn’t see Shroud recharge being reduced from 10s to 7s as a big deal considers themselves an authority on Shroud oriented traits.

You called me authority on shroud, ty and no I don’t find 3sec significant, at all. Only ever used this trait when building bunker necro like 3 years ago, before HoT came out.

Lets do the “surface” math between Core/Reaper and Scourge shroud traits.
“Need extended game play testing for actual full conclusion!”

Spite
-Reaper’s Might: Weaker.
Even if all F-skills grant 1 stack of might its still weaker with Scourge. Acceptable, unless you are camping shroud.
-Rending Shroud: Useless. With 3sec. interval of application this is absolutely pointless.
-Spiteful Spirit: Weaker. Like all traits that works only on “enter/exit”. This is the only significant nerf in Spite in my opinion.

Curses
-Furious Demise: Weaker. This is rather weak trait anyway.
-Path of Corruption: Stronger. Because of the F2 skill lower cd, this is definitely a boost.
-Weakening Shroud: Weaker. Similar to Spiteful Spirit, maybe even worst if F5 doesn’t crit. Need to be tested.

Death Magic
-Armored Shroud: Weaker.
-Shrouded Removal: Useless. Absolutely pointless trait with Scourge
-Deadly Strength: Useless. Debatable, but I would never use this because it lasts only 6 sec. And we wont use F5 on cd.
-Beyond the Veil: Weaker.
-Unholy Sanctuary: Useless. Already very weak trait. 6sec of practically nothing + nothing, because there is no 2nd HP bar to save us from the “Lethal blow”…

Blood Magic
-Life from Death: Weaker. The trait got buffed because of that, but its now twice as good in core/reaper scenario.
-Unholy Martyr: Useless. Another very weak trait that might be used with non support scourge, because of the LF gen. Still not very likely, but might get there.
-Transfusion: Stronger. Much stronger and also heals the necro. <3

Soul Reaping
-Unyielding Blast: Weaker. Acceptable if it works with all F-skills.
-Speed of Shadows: Same. I never really liked this trait before and rarely used it. That’s why I fail to see the reason why people are so upset with the changes?! I like the new trait more, but find the swiftness part weaker. It should pulse 2s of swiftness every sec.
-Vital Persistence: Same. It got nerfed, but 180Vit is overall good in Scourge.
-Foot in the Grave: Weaker.
-Death Perception: Useless. I probably wouldn’t take this with Scourge.
-Dhuumfire: Stronger. Shades allow for much larger application, which is the biggest upside. Also can be use as spike damage. The core/reaper application is underwhelming.

This is how I see the traits. Probably I miss some points and other will be changed/turn out better or worst in the near future (22.09 wink wink)

Dirame.8521:

VIDEO EDITION: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoFlDPlVH64

I really do feel like the Firebrand is lacking soul. The thing that makes it different to the core profession and even much preferred than the other Elite Spec. It lacks a lot and needs (as one of the most hilarious youtubers would say) shark cartillage pills.

Step 1 – to fixing the Firebrand is to make Tomes like Attunement swaps but they consume pages and the pages have a 10s cooldown to recharge. They activate instantly and release an AoE of some sort when used. You have access to all the skills as you do now, everything is just made faster and snappier.

Step 2 – Mantras are cool but the healing Mantra is a bit naff. How about having a trait that gives mantras passive effects when charged?

Step 3 – The Axe is actually quite fun but the pull is sometimes hilarious to land even when the person is right in front of you. If that could be fixed then we’d be one step closer to a great profession.

What do you guys think will make the Firebrand better? Let’s Discuss!

The attunement suggestion doesn’t fit the virtue traits, which leads to more changes to core guardian. Seems like a lot of work. I think with tome skills CD that page recharge is a good idea. Instant swap between tomes doesn’t seems necessary.
I don’t think tomes are designed to be constant in use, they are more supplementary.
Passive effects when fully charged mantras(similar to signets) is also neat idea.
About the axe, I couldn’t test it much, but on paper its condition duration felt way to short, especially the bleeds.

Brutaly.6257:

Btw, tome cd should start when you cast the tome. And the tome should be reset even if its active. Ie ToJ on kill.

No, because on top of the all standard effects and traits you also get 5 new skills per tome.

People only care about its auto attack. All they want is afk tag weapon
And Anet rightfully so took that away. Good move imo.
But, the aa now its really kinda weak.

Gaveon.6749:

Im happy with most of the stat combinations.
I just want the major changed on some

Eg. viper have Condi damage as the major not power
actually would it be better to have viper without power all together

And for World roaming
Knights & cavalier but have Power main instead of toughness

You need to understand that in this game there is no such thing as pure condition damage. All weapons that are classified as condition are actually hybrid. They all have direct damage part of their skills. So Viper without power will be damage loss.

Ravezaar.4951:

Zefiris.8297:

Ravezaar.4951:

My only hope is they touch Dhuumfire and how it works on the F-Skills and NOT the actual F-Skills but nerfed or “altered” it will be.

So, you are hoping for dhuumfire to be completely useless for scourge?

You do realize that removing the dhuumfire functionality from F2-F5 means that we have a GRANDMASTER trait that gives 1 burn every 15 seconds, right?

That’s supremely bad.

Dhuumfire isn’t the problem, it’s one of the few things making us PVE viable.

Well I really dont think Dhuumfire is suppose to taick 7x on F5 , do u ?

We see what Anet does but I have a strong feeling that they will nerf Scourge condi output, and not the AoE cause they talked it up as having battlefield control.

And I really really hope they dont adjust the F-skills cd’s so then what is left ? either the Burns or Torment

F5 is the Actual “Shroud” so yeah I think thats no bug.

No way

Lahmia.2193:

I’d love the Mystic stat you suggested though I’d prefer Vitality to be a main stat rather than healing power.
Or make a bit more of a dps stat with condi damage, precision, vitality, expertise.

We already have that in Shaman’s combo. Not as good as his suggestion

Hot Boy.7138:

I’m sure this has been stated a million times already.

Traps should only begin recharging once triggered. Include an trigger flip over skill once the trap is laid if they want to destroy the trap and begin recharging to drop a new one in a new place.

More like, traps need to stay up for a period of time and then disappear like necro Marks.

Yes as somebody else pointed out, F-skills cost doesn’t scale with vitality, so more vitality is desirable option.

One of my ideas for additional support was to give the Shades an option to be able to destroy projectiles. I hope we still can get something to defend against range/kiters

Yeah, and guess who will get the nerf hammer in the end
This Soulbeast is in thief crit wonderland… that’s insane!!!

They might add new sets with condi/healing/vit or something similar

We will probably get new masteris in the future LW. Could be another Mount or completely different kind. Also we probably will get new Raid mastery tree.
I also find them kind of lackluster. All hidden places seems part of the mounts too. I found 3 spots that can only be reached with mounts.

Vitali.5039:

mazut.4296:

Vitali.5039:

Kam.4092:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Let’s be clear: when it can be done nothing in the entire game beats Epidemic bouncing. When it’s an option, you really should be doing it.

When it’s not an option, then you may discuss other utilities in that third slot.

Just curious, what utilities do you like? When using Condition Reaper you’d add another Minion, like Flesh Wurm, or “Suffer!”. With Scourge we don’t have Shouts, and minions don’t do Combo Finishers either since we don’t do Ice Field spams. I was thinking about Serpent Siphon, Plague Signet, Well of Corruption for Fractals with Boons, and Corrosive Poison Cloud. Utilities change per Fractal/Fight though. I mean maybe replacing Epidemic with a minion would still be good.

I just like hearing other people’s opinions.

Even if not on Chill Fields for Deathly Chill, Minion’s Projectile Finishers are a dps increase.
If they’ll not buff Life Force generation on weapons they could at least give us life force gain from Flash Wurm’s attacks, wich it’s easy to kill in PvP scenarios while it could be useful for PvE.

Few days back I was thinking of something similar. Something like:
Soul Comprehension minor trait: our passive life-force generation from nearby deaths is increased by 20%. Every 5th minion attack grant 1-2% LF.

Hey, seems like you want to make a certain Death Magic’s trait useful for something!
But for Soul Comprehension I think that on all minions 5th attack could be too powerful with certain builds, maybe the old increased life force gain on deaths plus a 3% life force gain every 3 seconds while under the life force threshold? (50% life force, Combat only)

Can be tweaked a lot, every 7th hit or 0.5%LF or even implemented in every minion if you equip Death magic. Many possibilities to balance. And yes, I really like the idea behind Death Magic, but as whole its rather weak trait line.

Vitali.5039:

Kam.4092:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Let’s be clear: when it can be done nothing in the entire game beats Epidemic bouncing. When it’s an option, you really should be doing it.

When it’s not an option, then you may discuss other utilities in that third slot.

Just curious, what utilities do you like? When using Condition Reaper you’d add another Minion, like Flesh Wurm, or “Suffer!”. With Scourge we don’t have Shouts, and minions don’t do Combo Finishers either since we don’t do Ice Field spams. I was thinking about Serpent Siphon, Plague Signet, Well of Corruption for Fractals with Boons, and Corrosive Poison Cloud. Utilities change per Fractal/Fight though. I mean maybe replacing Epidemic with a minion would still be good.

I just like hearing other people’s opinions.

Even if not on Chill Fields for Deathly Chill, Minion’s Projectile Finishers are a dps increase.
If they’ll not buff Life Force generation on weapons they could at least give us life force gain from Flash Wurm’s attacks, wich it’s easy to kill in PvP scenarios while it could be useful for PvE.

Few days back I was thinking of something similar. Something like:
Soul Comprehension minor trait: our passive life-force generation from nearby deaths is increased by 20%. Every 5th minion attack grant 1-2% LF.

Play style is not that much different from reaper. You still prefer to be in melee, but not the whole time

Aeolus.3615:

Boons on npc’s does not makes game harder.. it would be actually fun if mob’s add an a.i with players / classes skills.

New AI is way better, but this will never happen, to much work where boons is way easier to implement.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

mazut.4296:

After I entered the 1st story instance and got whacked, i just changed my build and gear for a little bit tankier version and never looked back.

This is pretty advanced stuff for an average player. When you learn your class and traits you are already half way to the “elitist” status.

Not sure if they gonna buff the mobs to make it more difficult and engaging. Few years ago they dumbed down starting maps to the point where you need to dance for cows instead of take hay and feed them, and level locked half the game because “it was confusing for the new players”.

HoT is not for new players tho

Interesting discussions and as I expected it splits into 2. Pro and against. At least there are not many trolls, which is great
One thing I don’t really understood tho. Why do people find HoT that much harder? After I entered the 1st story instance and got whacked, i just changed my build and gear for a little bit tankier version and never looked back. Never had any problems in HoT apart from playing the thief, but I’m pretty bad with thief anyway. Either people kept trying to play full zerk, banging their heads in the wall or they never learned their professions, I’m really baffled.

GWMO.4785:

Yes, much like you could get 250 core tyria hp’s to unlock HoT spec. Hp’s are just hp’s. It doesn’t matter where its from. They all contribute to your total points which can be spend for your specializations. For the exception of WvW, those don’t count if i recall correctly (not sure on that one).

Proofs of heroics also works.

Why not make easy change and add boons to most foes around Tyria, especially core maps. Maybe from lvl30 and above. This way everything will get a little bit harder and balance the slow but steady power creep.
Start with few buffs and the higher the level area the more buffs and stacks foes can apply to themselves and their allies. Make some foes to be enchanters and buff their surrounding allies.

MethaneGas.8357:

rogerwilko.6895:

Scepter = slow life force generation, or am I mistaking?

Technically, with Nourishing Rot, you get 5% lifeforce when you remove/corrupt a boon… which makes scepter 1 spamming pretty decent for lifeforce regen >

And that’s great, but only ever gonna work in PvP/WvW. In PvE this trait is useless. It need to be reworked to be useful in all 3 game types.

It would be great if they buff all the pve by adding boons to most if not all adds, but I don’t see it happening any time soon.

Ravezaar.4951:

Had no troubble at all after some practice to have 3 shades up, wont run big shade in PvP nor WvW to kitten my dmg and area control. Also manifest the shades is one of the Scourges few ways to deal with range dps, using the big shades gimps that alot.

I don’t think having all 3 shades at once is the best way to play. Imo you should have 1 in reserve most of the time. Summoning all 3 on cd wasn’t more effective from my humble experience, most of the time. Ofc I might be wrong in the end, need a lot more practice.

Rym.1469:

I agree with the topic. I think the consensus is that we would still want to keep Dagger as a power weapon, but offer a bit of condition pressure to open up more builds and lessen the DPS drop switching to it in a Condition build would cause.

Thankfully, Path of Fire has given us the charge/ammo mechanic. Along with it, many underperforming skills on weapons such as Throw Axe on Warrior were given this new tech. I would actually do the same with Dark Pact and this topic is a good place to suggest such thing.

So, to please both sides I’d go with the version of Dark Pact linked in attachments. For few seconds, every Dagger hit would cause bleeding (duration is tbd) on a foe stuck by the ability. This would add another skill to the possible rotation as maybe even bring Life Siphon into it, since the skill hits 9 times.

This is pretty decent idea, it might make it to powerful tho. Probably should work only on auto attacks. But it turns the weapon both power and condi at the same time. I like having versatile options.

After some consideration I think this is actually great idea. Can work with both power and add that slightly lacking damage(compared to other dagger using professions). Also can tun into hybrid weapon. However the buff shouldn’t be more then 8sec. long and also doesn’t really benefit from ammo mechanic, except for the immobilize part. We will swap to this weapon and back to our main weapon on cd if using it as condi supplement weapon set. So more then 8 sec duration is overkill. Also the trait need to change obviously. Maybe something like:
-Chance on hit: 20-33% double attack(Necrotic Slash) (also another way to apply more bleeds)
-flat movement speed increase: 15% in combat
-Dagger Skill Recharge Reduced: 20%

Brokensunday.4098:

dagger should have the buff thief got and if they add cripple on the second hit of the auto chain would be nice dagger, also the dagger trait is awful

Yes, out closest range weapon trait works only if we have high HP, like wtf… Its like that for more then 2 years, but since nobody even use dagger, we stayed silent. Or maybe we don’t use the dagger partially because the trait is lame…

Unless you use Sand Savant you wont be able to keep 3 shades up.

RabbitUp.8294:

mazut.4296:

RabbitUp.8294:

mazut.4296:

People forget that Guard is not all about healing, but its other half is about damage prevention and mitigation.

Do you see any damage mitigation in Tome of Resolve? The tome itself is focused on healing, and it does a bad job at it. That’s why this thread is about the tome, not about the whole guardian profession.

And if we compare Firebrand to DH in terms of damage mitigation, Shield of Courage can tank hits for the whole team, the best thing Tome of Courage can do is stop projectiles or conditions after a delay.

You have them on utilities and weapons. And traits*

There’s no mitigation on axe, and the only mantra that has mitigation is the heal that grants aegis, but at the cost of being a very weak heal.

No, base guardian weapons and skills don’t count, because those are accessible to DH, too, and we already established that as it is, DH can heal for more.

Roll eyes… Ofc they count

Its not ugly, but the color is kind of to strong. The previous dark green was calming.

If they use concentration for that we will have Vitality – larger LF pool/Healing power – bigger Barriers/Concentration – slower Barrier decay. I think 3 defensive stats is to much. This will lead to less build diversity.

First the defensive capabilities of Death Magic compared to single minor trait like Blood as Sand. 15% in a single trait is huge, apart from all the side effects that whole trait line gives.
On top of that, there are this traits that are absolutely pointless with Desert Shroud: Shrouded Removal – Desert shroud is to short.
Unholy Sanctuary – We don’t have 2nd HP bar anymore and again Desert Shroud is to short to get healing amount that is even remotely relevant.

Also traits like Putrid Defense, which is good as idea, but our poison application is so far from enough… Even with specifically created build/equipment.
Reaper’s Protection, which could be okish only if its cd is reduced to 20s. Anything above this make it “dead weight”

I’m leaving minion trais to the side, they are decent and are different story for different conversation.

My point is, Death Magic is in real need of change, now more then ever.

Here are only my negative points.
-After HoT multi-layer maps, the Oasis felt underwhelming and generic.
-I like the fact that we got multiple events not part of a meta event. Don’t get me wrong, meta event are cool, but whole maps centered around single meta event is not cool. I still hope you find the middle ground between meta events(multiple per map) and normal story events(core Tyria).
-The mount felt good by itself, apart from little bit clunky steering. BUT the whole mount concept felt rather negative to me. I was able to explore, literally the whole available map in no more then 15 mins. Mounts made the whole exploring part non-existing.
-Exploring. Honestly there was almost nothing hidden to be found. The whole map felt bland and apart from some fun dialogues between NPCs, there was nothing. No hidden caves/dungeons/treasures. I saw 2 places that will be open to the mount abilities, but why make no special spots outside of that, that’s just not right. very disappointing.

I really hope there are more quests similar to the elite weapon quests, where we can search for an item/person or solve some conundrum in multiple areas. Because the usual Events(apart from meta events) are very confined to a small area. an RPG need more stories that take long to solve.

Scourge

Barriers degeneration must start after a period of time, 5 to 8s. Decrease the degeneration rate by 50%

Torch.
-Harrowing Wave: Additionally, grant 5% LF and 2% LF per target.
-Oppressive Collapse: Unblockable. Hit target behind the caster.

Punishments:
-Sand Flare: 300 radius.
Trail of Anguish: Slick Shoes like. Apply Burning to every one, every time they step into the trail.
-Dessicate: 10% LF, 5-10% per target hit 360radius. (Spectral Grasp potential 100% LF gain!!!)
-Sand Swell: ¼ cast time! 1200 range!
-Serpent Siphon: Target area/5 pulses- damage and poison. Cast barrier to 5 allies and corrupt 1 boon.
-Ghastly Breach: Movable aura around the caster, 220-240 radius(Like old Plague). To similar to Plaguelands as it is.

Shade Skills:
-Manifest Sand Shade: 1/4 cast time. Recharge faster outside of combat!
-Nefarious Favor: Flip skill: Destroy the further away Shade, reduce next shade cd by 33%.
-Sand Cascade: Flip skill: Teleport to closest Shade and gain weak barrier. (ICd 12s)
-Garish Pillar: additionally, all active Shades gain projectile destruction, 180 radius for 5sec.
-Desert Shroud: Flip skill: Destroys all Shades and reduce their cd by 66%

Traits:
-Abrasive Gift: Adds 5sec of Regeneration to barriers.
-Nourishing Rot: Grant 2% LF for every target affected by Torment or Burning (8 ICD per target). PvE doesnt have many boons to corrupt.
-Desert Empowerment: Heal for 20% of the prevented damage.
-Unending Corruption: Also steal the corrupted boon.
-Demonic Lore: split pvp/pve

Are you certain about trail of Anguish? Your explanation of the skill is exactly what I wanted it to be, but thought its not Running around and through stationary targets and target dummies, wasn’t applying multiple burns and didn’t gave me the results I was looking for. I didn’t tested it on players…

I’m not sure it should be treated like Slick Shoes, because Knockdown is way more powerful effect then the Burning and clever enemy will actually run out of it. Where once knockdown with old Slick Shoes it was impossible to escape without Stability.

Ravezaar.4951:

yea Spellbreaker imho is the Strongest of the New Elites, and if u not prepared the specced “counter” -skill can really hurt u, also there Balance stance with pulsating Resist together with there new Uber-Heal.

Range dps like Ranger,DH,Deadeye can shut us down hard… placement of Shades + future gap-closer in portal is crucial . Scourge is strong in melee tho, even without a “Shroud” as old, its imo by far strongest Necro variant in close quartes just due to the pressure we now have.

and to clarify not saying we should Melee old foes but a target that stays on Scourge to long is not gonna make it, with the exception of Spellbreaker.

Agree, its durable thief. very annoying

RabbitUp.8294:

mazut.4296:

People forget that Guard is not all about healing, but its other half is about damage prevention and mitigation.

Do you see any damage mitigation in Tome of Resolve? The tome itself is focused on healing, and it does a bad job at it. That’s why this thread is about the tome, not about the whole guardian profession.

And if we compare Firebrand to DH in terms of damage mitigation, Shield of Courage can tank hits for the whole team, the best thing Tome of Courage can do is stop projectiles or conditions after a delay.

You have them on utilities and weapons. And traits*

How wide is the cone? Is it 90? I Didn’t test Guard much

People forget that Guard is not all about healing, but its other half is about damage prevention and mitigation.

Honestly if I want new weapon, its long range weapon, 1200. Because staff is clearly not a damage weapon. But it will be part of Elite spec, limit the option to core.

I couldn’t test it in WvW and I see people say there are no problems with LF regen, but outside I found that we need another source of LF. Maybe we will be forced into dagger/x after all. Will see…

Core ele was considered hard to play because its complex. Now weaver follows. But all we need is practice. It will get fluid in 2 months

Sandrox.9524:

Too many stuff you suggested that will make this spec stronger then it should be.

I agree about the torch.
Garish Pillar would replace the fear for the dome to make it not too strong.
Barrier: make Healing power a stat that delay Barrier degeneration and Vitality stat that add max Barrier(instead of healing power).

I seriously think Scourge should have some way of destroying existing shades to replace them faster, where they are needed. Its pretty clunky in an action game with constant movement and dodges.

Justine.6351:

MOAR CONDITION MOAR GOOD!

Because you are going to need dots to kill all the foes in PoF that have high toughness.

more DOTS!

Anchoku.8142:

Gig Shade may be a raid trait

Yes, if the support part is good enough I see it as replacing 1 druid. You can prevent some of the damage and the 1 druid should have easy job in keeping 10 players healthy. Or maybe even take an ele healer. But all this depends if the whole barrier mechanic get the few small changes people are asking and get polished.
All the negative points about the barrier are valid.

Glott.7239:

I agree with the radius increase for Sand Flare and the range increase for Sand Swell but the rest sounds just ridiculously OP.

The change for Harrowing Wave and Dessicate are at least going in the right direction but your LF values just way to high.

Ghastly Breach would be to strong as an aura considering that Sand Shroud already is one, but changing it to a low range (shorter then wells) ground target, so you can better place it onto a node, whiteout having to stand in the center yourself, would be great.

And the whole barrier discussion here and anywhere is just short sided. Barrier is not just “the think that replaces necro shroud” it’s a new gameplay mechanic and we are NOT the only once getting access to it.

This are just ideas and I hope somebody from the dev team is reading all posts on the forums. Because I’m pretty sure they can get ideas for us and even sometimes implement them. You see you even put an idea, by turning the elite into ground target, which is better then what it is atm.
About the barriers, this is probably my favorite way of healing and the most interesting and engaging I found in any game i have played. Its different then direct healing and Im talking from experience here, more or less. The current barrier state is not good enough.

This has been chued so many times I have no desire anymore to talk about…

…Anet, you win…!

TheRandomGuy.7246:

takatsu.9416:

Elite specs needed to be done in PvP and WvW bc this is how to tell class balance. everything would be too easy in pve. there are some simpler pve npcs in HotM.

Then they should have called that a beta. Demo is not for feedback. Demo supposed to show off the game and create good a impression.

It is both, demo and beta or maybe it is Beta demoN!

Fair enough.

Magileine.5210:

mazut.4296:

Serpent Siphon. Doenst grant barrier and its weak skill overall.

No, it works as intended. You don’t get the barrier on hit or on cast. You get the barrier when you pick up the “magical sands” that drop after hitting an enemy.

I do agree, however, that it is a weak skill.

Lol, you are right, but the small yellow orb is so easy to miss… Its almost invisible, need better visual clue its there.